Post by: Laurentus on January 31, 2021, 06:52:25 AM
One hundred years ago, a race of giants called Titans emerged, and they wiped out the majority of mankind. You are a citizen of Wall Maria, the outermost of three massive walls, built to protect the last of mankind.
Mankind has settled into an uneasy peace, with raging income and social inequality still ravaging society. The royal and noble families reside within the inner-most wall, Wall Sina. The middle class reside in Wall Rose, and the poorest of the poor live out their lives in Wall Maria. As a citizen of Wall Maria, you are among those most in danger should the Titans ever find a way to breach the wall.
(https://wintreath.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yalsa.ala.org%2Fthehub%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2FWall-Maria-Wall-Rose-Wall-Sina-768x768.jpg&hash=04678abeef7da7e5aa15d177af52fcea)
While most citizens of the Walls choose to ignore the Titan threat, and even see the Survey Corps as a waste of tax payer money and human lives, you know it is only a matter of time until the walls are breached, and you have therefore enlisted in the Survey Corps yourself, despite your family calling you mad.
The Survey Corps' job is to survey the world outside the walls, looking for any sort of advantage against the enemy that has plagued humanity for the last 100 years. You just pray such an advantage can be found before the Titans once more threaten humanity...
Roles
1. Levi Ackermann (Defender/Doctor): As humanity's greatest soldier, you must protect those who cannot protect themselves. Each Night Phase, you will stand guard over one person to ensure that the Titans cannot eat them.
2. Mikasa Ackermann (Defender/Doctor): You are Levi's younger cousin, and you have just as much potential and natural strength, although you lack Levi's experience. You will similarly stand guard over one person of your choosing each night phase.
3. Erwin Smith (Seer): You are the Survey Corps' best ever commander, and this is thanks in large part to your keen understanding of human nature and your incredible analytical abilities. Each Night Phase, you will investigate those of the Survey Corps you find to be suspicious, in order to find the Titans hiding among you.
Titan Shifters: You are mankind's greatest enemy, as you are a breed of Titan that can hide as a human among the rest of the Survey Corps, and your goal is to gain information that will help you seal the fate of humanity once and for all. Each Day Phase, you will try to evade discovery, and each Night Phase, you will choose a target to eat. There are 4 Titan Shifters in total, and 1 of them can only be killed once all the others are dead.
Rules:
1. You may never reveal your role publicly.
2. You may not participate in any discussion if you should die, but you are allowed to say a good bye as long as you don't influence the outcome of the game in any way. Always mark such statements with a bolded DEAD.
3. You are required to vote every day phase, or risk expulsion after the second day in which you are inactive. This rule does not apply to the first day phase.
4. Day phases will last for 48 hours, and night phases for 24.
5. You may vote to lynch no one only once, at any point in the game.
6. You may never edit any posts.
7. There may not be any night-talking in this game. As soon as the day phase ends, I will lock the thread.
8. When voting, you have to vote on a new line, and it has to look like this example:
Vote: Laurentus
Code: [Select]
[b][u]Vote:[/u][/b]9. When we are in Final 7, Final 5 or Final 3, lynch-by-majority will be enabled, and vote-changing will not be permitted.10. Lynch by Majority is now active.
Players:
14. Wintermoot
15. NyghtOwl
16.
17. Doc
18. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
19. Alexander Valentine / ExLight
Post by: Laurentus on January 31, 2021, 06:53:35 AM
Post by: Red Mones on January 31, 2021, 08:14:17 PM
Post by: Red Mones on January 31, 2021, 08:17:03 PM
Post by: Laurentus on January 31, 2021, 08:19:15 PM
Post by: Doc on January 31, 2021, 08:29:37 PM
First! Can’t wait to ki-What? I didn’t say anything....
Not that either of us got a role PM, I'm sure.
(Your reminder to all that vanilla townies did not receive a PM, and if you didn't get one don't come in here crying about it (except in aforementioned joking fashion) because I will interpret any attempt to do so as an attempt to pretend you're not scum, and vote accordingly).
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on January 31, 2021, 08:41:51 PM
First! Can’t wait to ki-What? I didn’t say anything....Hmm. How very sus of you to want to kill things so quickly.
Not that either of us got a role PM, I'm sure.
(Your reminder to all that vanilla townies did not receive a PM, and if you didn't get one don't come in here crying about it (except in aforementioned joking fashion) because I will interpret any attempt to do so as an attempt to pretend you're not scum, and vote accordingly).
Guys guys I didn't get...jkjk :P
I'm dead anyways might as well give everyone an excuse :P
(https://i.ibb.co/mF39Qkz/c93.gif)
Post by: Red Mones on January 31, 2021, 08:42:04 PM
There are 4 Titan Shifters in total, and 1 of them can only be killed once all the others are dead.As far as I'm aware, town doesn't have any night-killing roles, so is this concerning lynches?
(For our newer players, I'd recommend reading up on the Godfather (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Godfather) role.)
Also, if you have any questions that may reveal your role, or any other sensitive information, (e.g. "I didn't get a role PM, what role am I?") PM the host instead of using our Help Thread (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6952.0). This way no sensitive info is revealed to other players.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on January 31, 2021, 08:43:01 PM
First! Can’t wait to ki-What? I didn’t say anything....
I got killed for making this exact joke D1 in Portal
Vote: Red Mones
Post by: Red Mones on January 31, 2021, 08:43:51 PM
Post by: BraveSirRobin on January 31, 2021, 08:54:39 PM
We have two Guards, one Seer, 4 Wolves, and 14 Townies?
No hidden roles/abilities whatsoever?
Post by: Red Mones on January 31, 2021, 08:56:09 PM
Okay so to confirm:The idea is it's supposed to be a classic/basic version of WW, so from what I understand, yes.
We have two Guards, one Seer, 4 Wolves, and 14 Townies?
No hidden roles/abilities whatsoever?
Post by: Melehan on January 31, 2021, 09:02:48 PM
And now, the Walls demand Sacrifice! For the sake of Humanity's survival, there must be blood offered!
Vote: Hapi
Spoiler
In all seriousness, I'm doing this for the lulz because it's not like we have any better reason to vote anyone off this early in D1.
Post by: cozmikrae on January 31, 2021, 09:08:11 PM
First! Can’t wait to ki-What? I didn’t say anything....
Hmmm... very early and very sus. Vote: Red Mones
Post by: Red Mones on January 31, 2021, 09:10:24 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on January 31, 2021, 09:13:02 PM
In the time before the Walls, yea, before the Titans roamed the Earth, a prophecy was spoken (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg155240#msg155240). Generations have risen and fallen in the centuries since, during which the fall of Humanity was all but assured, if not for the Walls.
And now, the Walls demand Sacrifice! For the sake of Humanity's survival, there must be blood offered!
Vote: HapiSpoilerIn all seriousness, I'm doing this for the lulz because it's not like we have any better reason to vote anyone off this early in D1.
I have only one response
(https://i.ibb.co/1LQyXqx/13036.gif)
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on January 31, 2021, 09:13:26 PM
Post by: Doc on January 31, 2021, 09:28:30 PM
Hmmm... very early and very sus. Vote: Red MonesYou, uh, wanna back that one up a little more there, chief?
There's nothing inherently sus about what seems pretty obviously a joking statement.
Post by: cozmikrae on January 31, 2021, 09:35:53 PM
Hmmm... very early and very sus. Vote: Red MonesYou, uh, wanna back that one up a little more there, chief?
There's nothing inherently sus about what seems pretty obviously a joking statement.
It’s a suspicious joke. And sounds like its use in prior games has ended with the demise of the jokester.
Post by: NyghtOwl on January 31, 2021, 09:59:58 PM
So in that vein I'm gonna vote the most senior member here. Vote Wintermoot
Post by: NyghtOwl on January 31, 2021, 10:01:40 PM
Hmmm... very early and very sus. Vote: Red MonesYou, uh, wanna back that one up a little more there, chief?
There's nothing inherently sus about what seems pretty obviously a joking statement.
It’s a suspicious joke. And sounds like its use in prior games has ended with the demise of the jokester.
Wouldn't that make it silly to make a joke that obvious then?
Post by: cozmikrae on January 31, 2021, 10:08:53 PM
Hmmm... very early and very sus. Vote: Red MonesYou, uh, wanna back that one up a little more there, chief?
There's nothing inherently sus about what seems pretty obviously a joking statement.
It’s a suspicious joke. And sounds like its use in prior games has ended with the demise of the jokester.
Wouldn't that make it silly to make a joke that obvious then?
Yes. Ha. And with day 1 being the dearth of evidence that it is, it’s about all I have to go off of. For the time being at least, I stand by my vote.
Also it’s day 1, might as well poke the hornet’s nest and see what happens.
Post by: Ruguo on January 31, 2021, 10:13:15 PM
Vote: Doc
Sorry bud, but last game proved your curse was back.
Post by: Red Mones on January 31, 2021, 10:18:08 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on January 31, 2021, 10:19:48 PM
Post by: Red Mones on January 31, 2021, 10:20:53 PM
Sorry bud, but last game proved your curse was back.
Post by: Melehan on January 31, 2021, 10:24:12 PM
See, what doesn't make sense to me is how you're voting for Red because of a joke not-claim, yet I'm over here, jokingly trying to get a unanimous lynch on Hapi and somehow not even registering as "most suspicious" to you.Hmmm... very early and very sus. Vote: Red MonesYou, uh, wanna back that one up a little more there, chief?
There's nothing inherently sus about what seems pretty obviously a joking statement.
It’s a suspicious joke. And sounds like its use in prior games has ended with the demise of the jokester.
Wouldn't that make it silly to make a joke that obvious then?
Yes. Ha. And with day 1 being the dearth of evidence that it is, it’s about all I have to go off of. For the time being at least, I stand by my vote.
Also it’s day 1, might as well poke the hornet’s nest and see what happens.
Congratulations! You're now topping my list of Most Suspicious.
Post by: Michi on January 31, 2021, 10:36:29 PM
Ya'll are crazy.
Post by: Melehan on January 31, 2021, 11:01:02 PM
Man, it's always weird just to see a vote or two in the first day when there's no rule requiring it day one...but I think this beats all.The Walls demand Blood as ordained by the Prophecy!
Ya'll are crazy.
All of you who do not assist in preparing the Sacrifice will be complicit in the Destruction of Humanity! Do not anger the Walls, for they are Humanity's Sole Salvation!
Sacrifice Hapi! For the Greater Good! For the Walls!
Post by: Wischland on January 31, 2021, 11:46:25 PM
Post by: Ruguo on February 01, 2021, 12:14:00 AM
And we're off! Y'all are just as lynch-happy as before! I'll stick with my MO though and hold off till later though. :P
Nuuuuuu! Break the mold! Attack first, ask questions later!
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 01, 2021, 12:28:02 AM
Hmmm... very early and very sus. Vote: Red MonesYou, uh, wanna back that one up a little more there, chief?
There's nothing inherently sus about what seems pretty obviously a joking statement.
???
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 01, 2021, 12:31:52 AM
And I said "hello my fellow turr...cores"
And you jumped on me. But now it's an obvious joke not worth a vote? :-\
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 01, 2021, 12:34:15 AM
Anyways cozmik is sus. Lol.
Post by: Doc on February 01, 2021, 12:39:33 AM
See, what doesn't make sense to me is how you're voting for Red because of a joke not-claim, yet I'm over here, jokingly trying to get a unanimous lynch on Hapi and somehow not even registering as "most suspicious" to you.There's nothing sus about a Day 1 Hapi lynch, though, esp. coming from someone who's gone over the meta with a fine-toothed comb like you have recently (as best demonstrated by a mysterious like of one of my posts from WW XXI, indicating that you've been digging).
Congratulations! You're now topping my list of Most Suspicious.
While I have absolutely nothing against Hapi as a person, Hapi as a player is a chaotic nightmare storm of chaff, which is almost invariably bad news for town.
If I thought anyone could convince her to change her playstyle, I'd push for that instead, but frankly imo it's a lost cause and the only reason I haven't voted Hapi yet is guilt, because even though I have nothing against her personally it could definitely look like I have some sort of axe to grind.
Guilt: my one weakness.
Vote: DocUh, rude, no, just because my 'statistically significant chance of being a werewolf' curse reared its ugly head last game does not justify bringing back the 'inevitably dies day 1' curse.
Sorry bud, but last game proved your curse was back.
Man, it's always weird just to see a vote or two in the first day when there's no rule requiring it day one...but I think this beats all.D1 no lynch is just kicking the can down the road for nothing. If the game was intended to be played that way, we should just start the game at N1 and let the power roles run wild for a minute. D1 exists because provocation and reaction-testing is important, not just for vanilla town to get a sense of what's what, but for the power roles to get an idea of who's worth scanning/defending.
Ya'll are crazy.
I'm confused Doc cause in Portal you were decidedly inno..please see above for my reasoning, and also please stop with the guilt
And I said "hello my fellow turr...cores"
And you jumped on me. But now it's an obvious joke not worth a vote? :-\
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 12:45:47 AM
Stand firm against the Coercion of Guilt! Be Strong, and Faithful! For you Know in your Heart of Hearts that Hapi must be sacrificed for the Greater Good! Vote Hapi! The Walls demand it!See, what doesn't make sense to me is how you're voting for Red because of a joke not-claim, yet I'm over here, jokingly trying to get a unanimous lynch on Hapi and somehow not even registering as "most suspicious" to you.There's nothing sus about a Day 1 Hapi lynch, though, esp. coming from someone who's gone over the meta with a fine-toothed comb like you have recently (as best demonstrated by a mysterious like of one of my posts from WW XXI, indicating that you've been digging).
Congratulations! You're now topping my list of Most Suspicious.
While I have absolutely nothing against Hapi as a person, Hapi as a player is a chaotic nightmare storm of chaff, which is almost invariably bad news for town.
If I thought anyone could convince her to change her playstyle, I'd push for that instead, but frankly imo it's a lost cause and the only reason I haven't voted Hapi yet is guilt, because even though I have nothing against her personally it could definitely look like I have some sort of axe to grind.
Guilt: my one weakness.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 01, 2021, 01:29:43 AM
Man, it's always weird just to see a vote or two in the first day when there's no rule requiring it day one...but I think this beats all.D1 no lynch is just kicking the can down the road for nothing. If the game was intended to be played that way, we should just start the game at N1 and let the power roles run wild for a minute. D1 exists because provocation and reaction-testing is important, not just for vanilla town to get a sense of what's what, but for the power roles to get an idea of who's worth scanning/defending.
Ya'll are crazy.
Hence my vote for Red Mones. Kicking the hornet's nest.
See, what doesn't make sense to me is how you're voting for Red because of a joke not-claim, yet I'm over here, jokingly trying to get a unanimous lynch on Hapi and somehow not even registering as "most suspicious" to you.
Congratulations! You're now topping my list of Most Suspicious.
Don't worry. I'm paying attention. ;) I also didn't necessarily like your attempt at a unanimous lynch. Seems... unjust.
Post by: Sapphiron on February 01, 2021, 01:33:51 AM
On that note, Vote: Vroendal
Post by: Vroendal on February 01, 2021, 01:43:37 AM
Hello bloody thirsty people, turns out the true monsters are we humans.Oh?
On that note, Vote: Vroendal
I've been keeping up with the thread as it's gone, but as of yet have not much to say. The only thing which really has made me wary is Doc's deliberate distancing of Hapi, I don't know if I can buy guilt being the only reason just yet, it's a developing situation though, so meh. I'd like to hold off on my vote for just now. That being the case Sapph, why go for me?
Post by: Gerrick on February 01, 2021, 02:01:58 AM
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 02:03:54 AM
Clearly you have no respect for the Walls or Their Will.
See, what doesn't make sense to me is how you're voting for Red because of a joke not-claim, yet I'm over here, jokingly trying to get a unanimous lynch on Hapi and somehow not even registering as "most suspicious" to you.
Congratulations! You're now topping my list of Most Suspicious.
Don't worry. I'm paying attention. ;) I also didn't necessarily like your attempt at a unanimous lynch. Seems... unjust.
Post by: TGN on February 01, 2021, 02:05:37 AM
so
First off
Hapi
was that gif of that girl "feeding" that boy what I thought it was or was bread and second, so we are just voting random people now?
OK [REDACTED] IT
Vote: Shapphiron
for all the reasons you guys voted each other UwU
just a joke ok (also read as if I were having a voice crack the entire time)
I DiDN't gEt a Pri-
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 02:08:24 AM
I'm gonna Vote: Michi for not liking voting on Day 1. His opinion is wrong, and he's a bad person.While your reasoning is flawless, it is obvious you missed the Message sent by the Walls. Hapi was Blessed by a Dream of the Glorious Future.
The Walls have chosen their Sacrifice and we must Heed the Walls!
Sacrifice Hapi! For the Greater Good! For Humanity! For the Walls!
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 02:10:04 AM
Post by: TGN on February 01, 2021, 02:11:55 AM
I get the feeling Mel is hinting at something, but as someone who hasn’t seen AoT, I don’t understand what.same
I have only seen one part of it once
not even a full episode
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 02:16:55 AM
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 02:23:40 AM
I get the feeling Mel is hinting at something, but as someone who hasn’t seen AoT, I don’t understand what.The Walls Protect and Shelter us from the Titans. All the Walls ask of us in return is that we Listen and Obey. For so long as we Honor the Walls, we shall safe from the Titans.
I am but a Faithful Servant of the Walls. I seek only to spread word of their Benevolence.
Alas! The Unbelievers and the Unfaithful seek to weaken the Refuge the Walls Provide! And so, a Sacrifice must made, Blood, offered, to Strengthen the Walls lest they be Breached! And Hapi has been Chosen for that very role by the Walls themselves!
Do not let the Light of Day shine upon the Titans' Faces! The Walls must be Maintained, and, further, Reinforced!
Hapi must be Sacrificed! For the Greater Good! For Humanity! For the Walls!
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 02:25:23 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 02:29:33 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 01, 2021, 02:32:23 AM
See, what doesn't make sense to me is how you're voting for Red because of a joke not-claim, yet I'm over here, jokingly trying to get a unanimous lynch on Hapi and somehow not even registering as "most suspicious" to you.There's nothing sus about a Day 1 Hapi lynch, though, esp. coming from someone who's gone over the meta with a fine-toothed comb like you have recently (as best demonstrated by a mysterious like of one of my posts from WW XXI, indicating that you've been digging).
Congratulations! You're now topping my list of Most Suspicious.
While I have absolutely nothing against Hapi as a person, Hapi as a player is a chaotic nightmare storm of chaff, which is almost invariably bad news for town.
If I thought anyone could convince her to change her playstyle, I'd push for that instead, but frankly imo it's a lost cause and the only reason I haven't voted Hapi yet is guilt, because even though I have nothing against her personally it could definitely look like I have some sort of axe to grind.
Guilt: my one weakness.Vote: DocUh, rude, no, just because my 'statistically significant chance of being a werewolf' curse reared its ugly head last game does not justify bringing back the 'inevitably dies day 1' curse.
Sorry bud, but last game proved your curse was back.Man, it's always weird just to see a vote or two in the first day when there's no rule requiring it day one...but I think this beats all.D1 no lynch is just kicking the can down the road for nothing. If the game was intended to be played that way, we should just start the game at N1 and let the power roles run wild for a minute. D1 exists because provocation and reaction-testing is important, not just for vanilla town to get a sense of what's what, but for the power roles to get an idea of who's worth scanning/defending.
Ya'll are crazy.I'm confused Doc cause in Portal you were decidedly inno..please see above for my reasoning, and also please stop with the guilt
And I said "hello my fellow turr...cores"
And you jumped on me. But now it's an obvious joke not worth a vote? :-\
But you just said it's the only way I can survive so...it would be rather not Werewolfy of me to not guilt you to keep myself in the game yeah?
I get the feeling Mel is hinting at something, but as someone who hasn’t seen AoT, I don’t understand what.The Walls Protect and Shelter us from the Titans. All the Walls ask of us in return is that we Listen and Obey. For so long as we Honor the Walls, we shall safe from the Titans.
I am but a Faithful Servant of the Walls. I seek only to spread word of their Benevolence.
Alas! The Unbelievers and the Unfaithful seek to weaken the Refuge the Walls Provide! And so, a Sacrifice must made, Blood, offered, to Strengthen the Walls lest they be Breached! And Hapi has been Chosen for that very role by the Walls themselves!
Do not let the Light of Day shine upon the Titans' Faces! The Walls must be Maintained, and, further, Reinforced!
Hapi must be Sacrificed! For the Greater Good! For Humanity! For the Walls!
(https://i.ibb.co/D7WxHGR/Attack-on-Titan-Sasha-Eating-Gif.gif)
Image not related :-\
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 02:32:29 AM
Nah, Vote: Melehan.You dare forsake the Safety of the Walls?!
Actually on second thought Unvote. Maybe I see what she's getting at. Probably not though tbhThere may yet be hope for you, child.
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 02:37:01 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 01, 2021, 02:44:04 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 01, 2021, 02:58:05 AM
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 03:02:38 AM
Hood it's hood... stupid no edit rule lolTFW you notice a typo after it's been quoted.
Post by: Laurentus on February 01, 2021, 04:14:27 AM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 01, 2021, 04:33:27 AM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 01, 2021, 04:43:03 AM
But I thought we were all supposed to be survey corp members so I been wondering about that. But I'm honestly digging the dedication to characterization.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 01, 2021, 04:45:40 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 04:51:47 AM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 01, 2021, 05:06:17 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on February 01, 2021, 07:51:59 AM
That being the case Sapph, why go for me?RNG :D
Post by: Sapphiron on February 01, 2021, 07:53:49 AM
Oh that's harsh. But I guess I could see it making sense. And if I may, do people kill Doc because they believe he's scum or because they can't be bothered to read his pages of text in a single post?I usually wouldn't take first day posts to be of greater significance since they are largely derived from speculation and chance
Post by: Minish on February 01, 2021, 09:26:06 AM
In the time before the Walls, yea, before the Titans roamed the Earth, a prophecy was spoken (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg155240#msg155240). Generations have risen and fallen in the centuries since, during which the fall of Humanity was all but assured, if not for the Walls.
And now, the Walls demand Sacrifice! For the sake of Humanity's survival, there must be blood offered!
Vote: HapiSpoilerIn all seriousness, I'm doing this for the lulz because it's not like we have any better reason to vote anyone off this early in D1.
Quick question for you or anyone else here that has played a lot. Are you newer to mafia or do you have some experience? I do have reason for asking this. Haha.
So may I ask a small question? Is there any advantage to a day 1 lynch? I originally threw a vote on because I was under the mistaken impression it was a necessary thing. But if it isn't, there doesn't seem to be a good reason to do it. We're statistically more likely to lynch a townie. And isn't that just doing the wolves work for them?
You want a d1 lynch to gather information basically. If we no lynch we go into d2 starting at the same place but with one dead townie. So for d1, you want wagons so that people show their hands. Personally I like 2-3 close wagons. Since usually there's a better chance of one of those being scum (though less likely in a game this big). And scum will be forced to potentially show their hands (vote to save their scumbud) or to potentially leave their scumbud to be lynched.
Post by: Eastern New England on February 01, 2021, 10:32:19 AM
So may I ask a small question? Is there any advantage to a day 1 lynch? I originally threw a vote on because I was under the mistaken impression it was a necessary thing. But if it isn't, there doesn't seem to be a good reason to do it. We're statistically more likely to lynch a townie. And isn't that just doing the wolves work for them?I'd argue that this following piece of copy-pasta sums it up:
Here’s why you should ALWAYS lynch on day 1.
Now, while this will usually end up with a cit down, this is incredibly useful.
First off, the prospect of a lynch fuels discussion to a great degree. When there’s an actual vote happening, it’s a motivator to talk and for discussion to be more productive, while people usually don’t care much about no lynch days.
Also, the flip on the player lynched is incredibly useful down the line. We can deduce scum based on their behaviour relative to the flip and using vote reading, which is impossible without lynching someone.
Something else to be considered is that town is playing against the clock. If scum aren’t dead by a certain point, they lose. Therefore, they most take the most advantage of their time, which would involve lynching for the reasons listed above. To note is that although scum will usually not be lynched d0, it can happen, and if it does, town basically wins the game right there. Lynching leads to the best outcomes.
Post by: Minish on February 01, 2021, 10:47:49 AM
His question about lynching comes from a town mindset to me. It's exactly how I thought when I first starting playing.
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 10:57:06 AM
I have some experience. And I have to say, some of the reactions have been Interesting.In the time before the Walls, yea, before the Titans roamed the Earth, a prophecy was spoken (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg155240#msg155240). Generations have risen and fallen in the centuries since, during which the fall of Humanity was all but assured, if not for the Walls.
And now, the Walls demand Sacrifice! For the sake of Humanity's survival, there must be blood offered!
Vote: HapiSpoilerIn all seriousness, I'm doing this for the lulz because it's not like we have any better reason to vote anyone off this early in D1.
Quick question for you or anyone else here that has played a lot. Are you newer to mafia or do you have some experience? I do have reason for asking this. Haha.
Post by: Minish on February 01, 2021, 11:04:31 AM
I have some experience. And I have to say, some of the reactions have been Interesting.In the time before the Walls, yea, before the Titans roamed the Earth, a prophecy was spoken (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg155240#msg155240). Generations have risen and fallen in the centuries since, during which the fall of Humanity was all but assured, if not for the Walls.
And now, the Walls demand Sacrifice! For the sake of Humanity's survival, there must be blood offered!
Vote: HapiSpoilerIn all seriousness, I'm doing this for the lulz because it's not like we have any better reason to vote anyone off this early in D1.
Quick question for you or anyone else here that has played a lot. Are you newer to mafia or do you have some experience? I do have reason for asking this. Haha.
I was originally asking because the part in your spoiler seemed a little overly cautious. Like sometimes I feel like scum feels the need to over explain something to try not to look scummy.
But this response seemed a little more townie, mentioning the reactions, so I'm back at square one.
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 11:24:34 AM
If you but followed the Guidance of the Walls, all would be clear.I have some experience. And I have to say, some of the reactions have been Interesting.In the time before the Walls, yea, before the Titans roamed the Earth, a prophecy was spoken (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg155240#msg155240). Generations have risen and fallen in the centuries since, during which the fall of Humanity was all but assured, if not for the Walls.
And now, the Walls demand Sacrifice! For the sake of Humanity's survival, there must be blood offered!
Vote: HapiSpoilerIn all seriousness, I'm doing this for the lulz because it's not like we have any better reason to vote anyone off this early in D1.
Quick question for you or anyone else here that has played a lot. Are you newer to mafia or do you have some experience? I do have reason for asking this. Haha.
I was originally asking because the part in your spoiler seemed a little overly cautious. Like sometimes I feel like scum feels the need to over explain something to try not to look scummy.
But this response seemed a little more townie, mentioning the reactions, so I'm back at square one.
(https://pm1.narvii.com/6523/9c293a7aece959906a742814221ec75647dd67d0_hq.jpg)
On a more serious note, the spoiler was there because Pastor Nick appears later in the series, so I figured there was a good chance of players not familiar with the series/not far along in watching to not get the Wall Worshipper references.
Post by: Minish on February 01, 2021, 11:36:49 AM
If you but followed the Guidance of the Walls, all would be clear.I have some experience. And I have to say, some of the reactions have been Interesting.In the time before the Walls, yea, before the Titans roamed the Earth, a prophecy was spoken (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg155240#msg155240). Generations have risen and fallen in the centuries since, during which the fall of Humanity was all but assured, if not for the Walls.
And now, the Walls demand Sacrifice! For the sake of Humanity's survival, there must be blood offered!
Vote: HapiSpoilerIn all seriousness, I'm doing this for the lulz because it's not like we have any better reason to vote anyone off this early in D1.
Quick question for you or anyone else here that has played a lot. Are you newer to mafia or do you have some experience? I do have reason for asking this. Haha.
I was originally asking because the part in your spoiler seemed a little overly cautious. Like sometimes I feel like scum feels the need to over explain something to try not to look scummy.
But this response seemed a little more townie, mentioning the reactions, so I'm back at square one.
(https://pm1.narvii.com/6523/9c293a7aece959906a742814221ec75647dd67d0_hq.jpg)
On a more serious note, the spoiler was there because Pastor Nick appears later in the series, so I figured there was a good chance of players not familiar with the series/not far along in watching to not get the Wall Worshipper references.
That's a believable reason. Carry on!
Hopefully this pastor can follow the guidance of the wall straight to scum and tell us who they are.
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 03:44:09 PM
That's a believable reason. Carry on!The Walls Speak to All, if they but pay heed. Quiet your doubts and listen not to the noise of the crowds, nor the petty concerns of pettier people. The Walls reveal their Knowledge in subtle ways, and we must be Vigilant, lest we miss Wisdom of the Walls.
Hopefully this pastor can follow the guidance of the wall straight to scum and tell us who they are.
The Walls See All, and we must all strive to follow Their Truth! Do not be led astray!
Post by: Ruguo on February 01, 2021, 03:49:52 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 01, 2021, 04:26:39 PM
As a reminder, currently the order of votes have gone like:
Red Mones - Hapi (For a joking comment)
Hapi - RM (In retaliation)
Hapi - Melehan (Given reason to fulfill the prophecy)
RM - cozmikrae (For the same joking comment as Hapi)
Wintermoot - NyghtOwl (Saw the more senior members as likelier to be scum)
Doc - Silv (Given reason as Doc's scum curse)
Vroendal - Sapphrion (Given reason as RNG)
Michi - Gerrick (Michi's opinion is wrong and he's a bad person)
Sapph - TGN (Given reason "for all the reasons you guys voted each other")
The wagons are rather spread out atm with a majority on Hapi and RM with 2 votes. The most convincing reason up here right now to me is actually the vote on Michi oddly enough XD, in the past games he's been among the first to vote, this change in tactics requires more explanation. I'm aware this will make the majority split three ways, still a good amount of time left.
Vote - Michi
Post by: Vroendal on February 01, 2021, 04:29:55 PM
Man, it's always weird just to see a vote or two in the first day when there's no rule requiring it day one...but I think this beats all.
Ya'll are crazy.
Post by: Minish on February 01, 2021, 04:41:37 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 04:47:57 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 04:50:19 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 01, 2021, 04:50:54 PM
Can anyone confirm Vro's claim that Michi is usually one of the first to vote? That's not a bad catch if true.I've been looking myself just to confirm that I'm right, last game (LOTR) as an unaligned acting independently he voted Lau in retaliation as the second vote of the day. The game before that (Portal 2) he voted much later in the day as scum. The game before that (Portal 1) as town he wasn't the very first to vote, but voted much more quickly in terms of how many votes has previously been cast (5 stuck votes had been cast as compared to this game's 8, doesn't sound like much difference but in terms of the way that thread had gone and the great number of players in that game it was still early) The game before that he was a host and the games before that have been too long ago.
Michi does weird stuff, but he hasn't spoken against voting early in clear opposition before, despite doing it himself.
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 04:58:58 PM
Which if you were you look at past games (even the past attempt) aside from XIV which started in the night phase, I don't really do Day 1 weigh ins. I'll usually keep my posts brief if I even post at all that phase because there's normally not anything to go on. Hell, even the first attempt I didn't really weigh in despite it being basically 10 pages of content for Day 1.It’s probably important to mention he was a wolf this game.
Post by: Ruguo on February 01, 2021, 05:26:03 PM
That was a really good catch, Vro, and something I would have never picked up on. I don't think we're in any danger of a hammer at all with this many players, so let's go for a little more pressure.
Unvote
Vote: Michi
Care to explain yourself?
Post by: Minish on February 01, 2021, 05:31:00 PM
Vro gets a bit of town points for pointing that out though. I feel like that was more genuine reason for sussing someone.
Post by: TGN on February 01, 2021, 05:49:21 PM
just cuz
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on February 01, 2021, 05:57:43 PM
Lets be cautious shall we, I don't think it would be good to accidentally kill an innocent townie, like me of course :D
I'd also like an explanation why we all want to kill Michi, before of course I jump on the bandwagon...?
Post by: TGN on February 01, 2021, 06:04:40 PM
Jesus christ I can never survive werewolf games, already 6 pages!ngl I have no idea
Lets be cautious shall we, I don't think it would be good to accidentally kill an innocent townie, like me of course :D
I'd also like an explanation why we all want to kill Michi, before of course I jump on the bandwagon...?
I think everyone was like "heh vote michi lol"
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 01, 2021, 06:07:16 PM
See, what doesn't make sense to me is how you're voting for Red because of a joke not-claim, yet I'm over here, jokingly trying to get a unanimous lynch on Hapi and somehow not even registering as "most suspicious" to you.There's nothing sus about a Day 1 Hapi lynch, though, esp. coming from someone who's gone over the meta with a fine-toothed comb like you have recently (as best demonstrated by a mysterious like of one of my posts from WW XXI, indicating that you've been digging).
Congratulations! You're now topping my list of Most Suspicious.
While I have absolutely nothing against Hapi as a person, Hapi as a player is a chaotic nightmare storm of chaff, which is almost invariably bad news for town.
If I thought anyone could convince her to change her playstyle, I'd push for that instead, but frankly imo it's a lost cause and the only reason I haven't voted Hapi yet is guilt, because even though I have nothing against her personally it could definitely look like I have some sort of axe to grind.
Guilt: my one weakness.Vote: DocUh, rude, no, just because my 'statistically significant chance of being a werewolf' curse reared its ugly head last game does not justify bringing back the 'inevitably dies day 1' curse.
Sorry bud, but last game proved your curse was back.Man, it's always weird just to see a vote or two in the first day when there's no rule requiring it day one...but I think this beats all.D1 no lynch is just kicking the can down the road for nothing. If the game was intended to be played that way, we should just start the game at N1 and let the power roles run wild for a minute. D1 exists because provocation and reaction-testing is important, not just for vanilla town to get a sense of what's what, but for the power roles to get an idea of who's worth scanning/defending.
Ya'll are crazy.I'm confused Doc cause in Portal you were decidedly inno..please see above for my reasoning, and also please stop with the guilt
And I said "hello my fellow turr...cores"
And you jumped on me. But now it's an obvious joke not worth a vote? :-\
So I was going to go back through old games to check out what you mean about Hapi being a chaotic mess of a player but I'm at work and it's super busy. Anyway I could get some sparknotes on this homework assignment?
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 01, 2021, 06:11:54 PM
Post by: Wischland on February 01, 2021, 06:24:10 PM
I'd also like an explanation why we all want to kill Michi, before of course I jump on the bandwagon...?Basically, in past games town Michi tended to be one of the earliest voters on D1. Scum Michi pushed against D1 voting or took longer to vote. Since Michi has not voted, instead saying this: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg155825#msg155825 he is acting more like he has when he was scum in the past.
Unvote MichiCan we get more than that? Unvoting Michi right after Vro made a decent point about Michi possibly being scum without reasoning is very strange.
just cuz
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 07:00:32 PM
Apologies if I seem needy. Still trying to get a hold on the general flow.This game is literally for our newer players, so don’t apologize! Feel free to use that help thread too.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 01, 2021, 07:22:08 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 01, 2021, 07:32:38 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 07:44:15 PM
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 07:51:02 PM
Mel, Mel, Mel... Whatever are we going to do with you?Heed the Will of the Walls and All Will Be Well.
Is it too late to change my vote? I feel like I'm voting for a third party candidate going with Moot. And looking at the chaos Hapi makes, well, I don't know if that's gonna be a good thing for us in the long run. So, can I Vote Hapi?There's no rules against changing votes, so long as you make it clear that you're actually changing your vote, which you did, so you're good.
Jesus christ I can never survive werewolf games, already 6 pages!TL;DR: Michi is acting like he does in the recent games where he's been scum and not at all like the one game he was a townie.
Lets be cautious shall we, I don't think it would be good to accidentally kill an innocent townie, like me of course :D
I'd also like an explanation why we all want to kill Michi, before of course I jump on the bandwagon...?
And it appears I may have misinterpreted the meaning of the Walls' Prophecy. Perhaps, rather than be a mandate of Hapi's sacrifice, it was, instead, a Warning of What Must Not Pass.
That would be more in line with the Benevolence of the Walls spoken of...
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 07:52:09 PM
Post by: Laurentus on February 01, 2021, 07:59:39 PM
Melehan's original post
(https://youtu.be/KeaXANvI5gE)
Post by: TGN on February 01, 2021, 08:32:33 PM
Hmm, I've taken a screenshot of your original message and will post it on Discord, after which point you may edit to fix the formatting.OMG IT SAID YOU EDITIED THE POST!!!!!!!Melehan's original post(https://youtu.be/KeaXANvI5gE)
YOU EDITED THE POST AND THEREFORE BROKE THE RULES OF THE GAME
VOTE LAU
FOR EDITING POST!!!!!!!!!!
lol
Post by: Ruguo on February 01, 2021, 08:44:24 PM
Is it too late to change my vote? I feel like I'm voting for a third party candidate going with Moot. And looking at the chaos Hapi makes, well, I don't know if that's gonna be a good thing for us in the long run. So, can I Vote Hapi?
You can change your votes at any time, but for east of counting it's best if you put them on a separate line from the rest of your post. You can also post "Unvote" to completely cancel all previous standing votes.
Jesus christ I can never survive werewolf games, already 6 pages!
Lets be cautious shall we, I don't think it would be good to accidentally kill an innocent townie, like me of course :D
I'd also like an explanation why we all want to kill Michi, before of course I jump on the bandwagon...?
Eager to jump on a bandwagon, are we? I dunno Ogun, this whole seems a little off to me... planting the idea you're town really early into D1, suggesting caution on a wagon of three (I think) when we've got so much room before hammer, then offering to jump on the wagon?
Ogun, are you trying to distance yourself from Michi? Are you two scumbuds?
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 01, 2021, 09:12:53 PM
This is also something I am wondering about after reading through posts on the topic.Jesus christ I can never survive werewolf games, already 6 pages!
Lets be cautious shall we, I don't think it would be good to accidentally kill an innocent townie, like me of course :D
I'd also like an explanation why we all want to kill Michi, before of course I jump on the bandwagon...?
Eager to jump on a bandwagon, are we? I dunno Ogun, this whole seems a little off to me... planting the idea you're town really early into D1, suggesting caution on a wagon of three (I think) when we've got so much room before hammer, then offering to jump on the wagon?
Ogun, are you trying to distance yourself from Michi? Are you two scumbuds?
For now I will use my No Lynch vote but that will change later on since I am sure some other players will eventually look more suspicious.
Melehan has been triggering some of my suspicion because from what I remember when reading and playing previous Werewolf games, the players who were committed to a role in all of their posts were usually evil or just hiding something. Hapi in the last game proved an exception to the evil players posting in character but I think the Batman game had a few cases like that (and then there are the "generic Batman quotes").
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 09:36:23 PM
I guess everyone missed how I was soft-claiming Tali that entire Mass Effect themed game?This is also something I am wondering about after reading through posts on the topic.Jesus christ I can never survive werewolf games, already 6 pages!
Lets be cautious shall we, I don't think it would be good to accidentally kill an innocent townie, like me of course :D
I'd also like an explanation why we all want to kill Michi, before of course I jump on the bandwagon...?
Eager to jump on a bandwagon, are we? I dunno Ogun, this whole seems a little off to me... planting the idea you're town really early into D1, suggesting caution on a wagon of three (I think) when we've got so much room before hammer, then offering to jump on the wagon?
Ogun, are you trying to distance yourself from Michi? Are you two scumbuds?
For now I will use my No Lynch vote but that will change later on since I am sure some other players will eventually look more suspicious.
Melehan has been triggering some of my suspicion because from what I remember when reading and playing previous Werewolf games, the players who were committed to a role in all of their posts were usually evil or just hiding something. Hapi in the last game proved an exception to the evil players posting in character but I think the Batman game had a few cases like that (and then there are the "generic Batman quotes").
Post by: Ruguo on February 01, 2021, 09:44:20 PM
Melehan has been triggering some of my suspicion because from what I remember when reading and playing previous Werewolf games, the players who were committed to a role in all of their posts were usually evil or just hiding something. Hapi in the last game proved an exception to the evil players posting in character but I think the Batman game had a few cases like that (and then there are the "generic Batman quotes").Honestly, Mel isn't giving me scum vibes. Granted, I haven't played with a scum Mel and hosting games does warp your perspective quite a bit, but I'm honestly seeing the same patterns I'm used to seeing from her. It is day one, and she's far from off the hook altogether, but if I had to read based off of the data thus far, mal would have at least earned a spot in lime.
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 01, 2021, 09:56:00 PM
I guess everyone missed how I was soft-claiming Tali that entire Mass Effect themed game?I know very little about Mass Effect so if you were using the game references, I most likely would not have understood that claim. I am glad that your characterization was at least explained this time (by both you and other players) since this is another series i know little about. Though I might know a little more about this one. My whole knowledge comes from a brief period where I played the FengLee online game tribute.
Although I prefer not paying attention to claims or making them because of all of the attention they usually seem to bring (plus figuring out seems more interesting than just being told glares at Town of Salem).
Melehan has been triggering some of my suspicion because from what I remember when reading and playing previous Werewolf games, the players who were committed to a role in all of their posts were usually evil or just hiding something. Hapi in the last game proved an exception to the evil players posting in character but I think the Batman game had a few cases like that (and then there are the "generic Batman quotes").Honestly, Mel isn't giving me scum vibes. Granted, I haven't played with a scum Mel and hosting games does warp your perspective quite a bit, but I'm honestly seeing the same patterns I'm used to seeing from her. It is day one, and she's far from off the hook altogether, but if I had to read based off of the data thus far, mal would have at least earned a spot in lime.
That's fair, I have not seen a scum Melehan either (also have not played many games of Werewolf with them). I was pretty much just pointing out what may be a tendency when stating that suspicion.
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 10:32:18 PM
The Likeliest of Blasphemers (Scummiest of Scumspects)
cozmikrae - Basically hopped onto the first wagon he saw with the flimsiest of causes and has been completely quiet since, aside from a thoroughly unconvincing rebuttal to my pointing out the lack of suspicion towards me.
Ruguo - Seems mighty eager to ascribe scummy intent to what are likely the actions of inexperienced players. Very carefully distancing themself from those plays. Also is defending me despite how I've been coating myself in the slime which desecrates the Walls.
TNG - I'm not sure what's going on with the voting there, but it is suspicious. Especially since I know he's smarter than he might initially appear...
Hapi - Shockingly quiet. Where is our regularly scheduled chaos? Plus, THE PROPHECY!
The Faithful (Towniest of Townies)
Vro, Minish, Red, Nyte, and Kane.
Post by: Ruguo on February 01, 2021, 10:39:14 PM
Hey look, we've already achieved suspicion! Mission accomplished!
Side bar: I'd not call Michi an inexperience player... Wait, you're referring to Ogun. Meh. Ogun can do Ogun things then, and I'll eat my words later when he responds to me.
So, the walls are slimy you say? What makes a wall slimy?
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 10:43:10 PM
cozmikrae - Basically hopped onto the first wagon he saw with the flimsiest of causes and has been completely quiet since, aside from a thoroughly unconvincing rebuttal to my pointing out the lack of suspicion towards me.Wait so you're gonna fault Ruguo for saying inexperienced players are scum yet you're doing exactly the same with cozmikrae? (Sidenote: She) I'm actually with you on Ruguo. They accused Ogun of being potential sum, yet we co-hosted 23 and this is exactly how Ogun acted then (as town) imo, so I'm wondering why Ruguo brought it up at all. But you're also being wildly inconsistent here, Mel.
Ruguo - Seems mighty eager to ascribe scummy intent to what are likely the actions of inexperienced players. Very carefully distancing themself from those plays. Also is defending me despite how I've been coating myself in the slime which desecrates the Walls.
Post by: Ruguo on February 01, 2021, 10:50:34 PM
Wait so you're gonna fault Ruguo for saying inexperienced players are scum yet you're doing exactly the same with cozmikrae? (Sidenote: She) I'm actually with you on Ruguo. They accused Ogun of being potential sum, yet we co-hosted 23 and this is exactly how Ogun acted then (as town) imo, so I'm wondering why Ruguo brought it up at all. But you're also being wildly inconsistent here, Mel.
*slow blink*
You mean I was supposed to pay attention to that game?
In all seriousness, I would ask you to not trust me as a host to learn how anyone plays, or remember it. When I'm on the other side, I'm gone. I'm laser focused on making things work, and unless there's a major infraction or a mod-request, I pretty much ignore who said what when and how.
I will apologize to Ogun if that is the case.
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 10:51:43 PM
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 11:03:57 PM
Not quite. I'm suspecting cozmik not for being inexperienced, but because of her reaction to my casting suspicion on her. Her reaction was very lukewarm, and she hasn't posted anything else since. Ogun otoh went "idk what's going on here, could someone summarize" which is much more in line with an inexperienced player being overwhelmed by the number of posts.cozmikrae - Basically hopped onto the first wagon he saw with the flimsiest of causes and has been completely quiet since, aside from a thoroughly unconvincing rebuttal to my pointing out the lack of suspicion towards me.Wait so you're gonna fault Ruguo for saying inexperienced players are scum yet you're doing exactly the same with cozmikrae? (Sidenote: She) I'm actually with you on Ruguo. They accused Ogun of being potential sum, yet we co-hosted 23 and this is exactly how Ogun acted then (as town) imo, so I'm wondering why Ruguo brought it up at all. But you're also being wildly inconsistent here, Mel.
Ruguo - Seems mighty eager to ascribe scummy intent to what are likely the actions of inexperienced players. Very carefully distancing themself from those plays. Also is defending me despite how I've been coating myself in the slime which desecrates the Walls.
Cozmik thus reads to me more as "a player we aren't familiar with lying low to pass as inexperienced" than someone actually inexperienced.
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 11:06:10 PM
So, the walls are slimy you say? What makes a wall slimy?Do you truly wish to know?
Post by: Ruguo on February 01, 2021, 11:09:05 PM
Yes, enlighten me oh wise one.So, the walls are slimy you say? What makes a wall slimy?Do you truly wish to know?
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 11:09:48 PM
Public restrooms are unavailable within the Walls.Yes, enlighten me oh wise one.So, the walls are slimy you say? What makes a wall slimy?Do you truly wish to know?
Post by: cozmikrae on February 01, 2021, 11:11:43 PM
In the meantime, I have listened intently to the Whispers of the Walls, and while the Whispers are hardly definitive, I Believe in Their Validity! The Walls would never steer us wrong!
The Likeliest of Blasphemers (Scummiest of Scumspects)
cozmikrae - Basically hopped onto the first wagon he saw with the flimsiest of causes and has been completely quiet since, aside from a thoroughly unconvincing rebuttal to my pointing out the lack of suspicion towards me.
Ruguo - Seems mighty eager to ascribe scummy intent to what are likely the actions of inexperienced players. Very carefully distancing themself from those plays. Also is defending me despite how I've been coating myself in the slime which desecrates the Walls.
TNG - I'm not sure what's going on with the voting there, but it is suspicious. Especially since I know he's smarter than he might initially appear...
Hapi - Shockingly quiet. Where is our regularly scheduled chaos? Plus, THE PROPHECY!
The Faithful (Towniest of Townies)
Vro, Minish, Red, Nyte, and Kane.
I've said my piece. I won't keep talking unless there's something to say. She for the record, I'm a woman.
Interesting tactic here, you seem to want me to accuse you? Why are you pointing out how suspicious you're being? Are you protecting Red Mones? Are you drawing attention away from something/someone else?
Post by: cozmikrae on February 01, 2021, 11:15:15 PM
Not quite. I'm suspecting cozmik not for being inexperienced, but because of her reaction to my casting suspicion on her. Her reaction was very lukewarm, and she hasn't posted anything else since. Ogun otoh went "idk what's going on here, could someone summarize" which is much more in line with an inexperienced player being overwhelmed by the number of posts.cozmikrae - Basically hopped onto the first wagon he saw with the flimsiest of causes and has been completely quiet since, aside from a thoroughly unconvincing rebuttal to my pointing out the lack of suspicion towards me.Wait so you're gonna fault Ruguo for saying inexperienced players are scum yet you're doing exactly the same with cozmikrae? (Sidenote: She) I'm actually with you on Ruguo. They accused Ogun of being potential sum, yet we co-hosted 23 and this is exactly how Ogun acted then (as town) imo, so I'm wondering why Ruguo brought it up at all. But you're also being wildly inconsistent here, Mel.
Ruguo - Seems mighty eager to ascribe scummy intent to what are likely the actions of inexperienced players. Very carefully distancing themself from those plays. Also is defending me despite how I've been coating myself in the slime which desecrates the Walls.
Cozmik thus reads to me more as "a player we aren't familiar with lying low to pass as inexperienced" than someone actually inexperienced.
So you feel I should have been more indignant in my reaction? lol ok. I'm not lying low, I was online all day yesterday because it was a Sunday. About 2-3 mores pages happened overnight, while I was asleep, and now I'm posting while I'm at work, in between phone calls.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 01, 2021, 11:16:06 PM
Public restrooms are unavailable within the Walls.Yes, enlighten me oh wise one.So, the walls are slimy you say? What makes a wall slimy?Do you truly wish to know?
Ummmm....that's quite the design flaw to overlook. Who's in charge of construction. I want to speak to the manager. Also, and this is just a little nitpicky...it's Nyght.
Post by: Melehan on February 01, 2021, 11:26:44 PM
Ew. Timezones.Not quite. I'm suspecting cozmik not for being inexperienced, but because of her reaction to my casting suspicion on her. Her reaction was very lukewarm, and she hasn't posted anything else since. Ogun otoh went "idk what's going on here, could someone summarize" which is much more in line with an inexperienced player being overwhelmed by the number of posts.cozmikrae - Basically hopped onto the first wagon he saw with the flimsiest of causes and has been completely quiet since, aside from a thoroughly unconvincing rebuttal to my pointing out the lack of suspicion towards me.Wait so you're gonna fault Ruguo for saying inexperienced players are scum yet you're doing exactly the same with cozmikrae? (Sidenote: She) I'm actually with you on Ruguo. They accused Ogun of being potential sum, yet we co-hosted 23 and this is exactly how Ogun acted then (as town) imo, so I'm wondering why Ruguo brought it up at all. But you're also being wildly inconsistent here, Mel.
Ruguo - Seems mighty eager to ascribe scummy intent to what are likely the actions of inexperienced players. Very carefully distancing themself from those plays. Also is defending me despite how I've been coating myself in the slime which desecrates the Walls.
Cozmik thus reads to me more as "a player we aren't familiar with lying low to pass as inexperienced" than someone actually inexperienced.
So you feel I should have been more indignant in my reaction? lol ok. I'm not lying low, I was online all day yesterday because it was a Sunday. About 2-3 mores pages happened overnight, while I was asleep, and now I'm posting while I'm at work, in between phone calls.
I may have to reconsider some of those Whispers...
>.> I'm going to blame that on auto-correct because I went back to find a post of yours to make sure I spelled it correctly, but looks like this keyboard still remembers a Nyte I knew years ago...Public restrooms are unavailable within the Walls.Yes, enlighten me oh wise one.So, the walls are slimy you say? What makes a wall slimy?Do you truly wish to know?
Ummmm....that's quite the design flaw to overlook. Who's in charge of construction. I want to speak to the manager. Also, and this is just a little nitpicky...it's Nyght.
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 11:32:06 PM
Cozmik thus reads to me more as "a player we aren't familiar with lying low to pass as inexperienced" than someone actually inexperienced.I can personally vouch for cozmikrae being inexperienced as I invited them to Wintreath.
Interesting tactic here, you seem to want me to accuse you? Why are you pointing out how suspicious you're being? Are you protecting Red Mones? Are you drawing attention away from something/someone else?I don't understand what you're getting at here. I don't see any of this in Mel's post at all.
Post by: Michi on February 01, 2021, 11:36:14 PM
Well, many hours have elapsed and not a great amount has happened.
As a reminder, currently the order of votes have gone like:
Red Mones - Hapi (For a joking comment)
Hapi - RM (In retaliation)
Hapi - Melehan (Given reason to fulfill the prophecy)
RM - cozmikrae (For the same joking comment as Hapi)
Wintermoot - NyghtOwl (Saw the more senior members as likelier to be scum)
Doc - Silv (Given reason as Doc's scum curse)
Vroendal - Sapphrion (Given reason as RNG)
Michi - Gerrick (Michi's opinion is wrong and he's a bad person)
Sapph - TGN (Given reason "for all the reasons you guys voted each other")Mel- RM (Paranoia from Mel's references, immediately unvoted)
The wagons are rather spread out atm with a majority on Hapi and RM with 2 votes. The most convincing reason up here right now to me is actually the vote on Michi oddly enough XD, in the past games he's been among the first to vote, this change in tactics requires more explanation. I'm aware this will make the majority split three ways, still a good amount of time left.
Vote - Michi
Uh...
Games where I voted Day 1 for someone other than myself:
WWXIII (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0) When Laurentus voted for me. I was a neutral role.
Portal Attempt 1 (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6530.75) When I was a Jailer, and considered a Green/Curiosity Core
Portal Attempt 2 (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6530.75) When I was a turret.
WWIX (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=3926.15) When I was the Protector
Games where I didn't vote D1 or voted for myself to avoid an inactivity lynch:
WWXIX (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6099.60) Didn't vote. Was a neutral role.
WWXVI (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=5539.45) Voted self to avoid an inactivity lynch since voting was required each phase. Was one of the Vampires.
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=3513.15 (http://) Voted self to avoid an inactivity lynch since voting of some form was required each phase. I was one of the Jedi Protectors
WWIV (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=2262.0) Voted for the shrubbery because why not? I was a Villager/Peasant aka Horse Master for that game.
Other games not listed were either ones I didn't participate in (Game of Thrones, Werewolf 40,0000, Those of No Reflection 2, This Little Thing of Ours) or ones I hosted myself (1-3, 5&6, 10/10-2, 12 &13, 15, 17&18, 21).
So no, there's nothing to suggest that it's common except in 2 (technically 3 since 1 was a two attempter) recent games, and in fact it's much more shaky when it comes to how I do D1 as a role and depending on the rule.
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 11:37:24 PM
Post by: Michi on February 01, 2021, 11:37:39 PM
Dunno why that link got all wonkered up.
Post by: Vroendal on February 01, 2021, 11:46:59 PM
Uh...I truly greatly appreciate the effort you've put into collecting your information, thank you for that. ^ ^ However, I'm reticent to accept any testimony as relevant to this game if it happened more than a year ago, which I think should be understandable. The strongest arguments should be made with your latest games and I don't put any real stock in games from 2015-2016 particularly since you've played other games and gained new experiences since then.
Games where I voted Day 1 for someone other than myself:
WWXIII (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0) When Laurentus voted for me. I was a neutral role.
Portal Attempt 1 (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6530.75) When I was a Jailer, and considered a Green/Curiosity Core
Portal Attempt 2 (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6530.75) When I was a turret.
WWIX (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=3926.15) When I was the Protector
Games where I didn't vote D1 or voted for myself to avoid an inactivity lynch:
WWXIX (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6099.60) Didn't vote. Was a neutral role.
WWXVI (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=5539.45) Voted self to avoid an inactivity lynch since voting was required each phase. Was one of the Vampires.
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=3513.15 (http://) Voted self to avoid an inactivity lynch since voting of some form was required each phase. I was one of the Jedi Protectors
WWIV (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=2262.0) Voted for the shrubbery because why not? I was a Villager/Peasant aka Horse Master for that game.
Other games not listed were either ones I didn't participate in (Game of Thrones, Werewolf 40,0000, Those of No Reflection 2, This Little Thing of Ours) or ones I hosted myself (1-3, 5&6, 10/10-2, 12 &13, 15, 17&18, 21).
So no, there's nothing to suggest that it's common except in 2 (technically 3 since 1 was a two attempter) recent games, and in fact it's much more shaky when it comes to how I do D1 as a role and depending on the rule.
I do concede that there may be different variables for a given game such as your role, but your most recent games have shown a trend that appears to be Alignment Indicitive that I haven't yet seen in this one, which makes it certainly worth investigating.
If you had to vote right here, who would you vote for and why?
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 01, 2021, 11:51:17 PM
Vote: cozmik
I think it's obvious why but here we go. Jumped on a joke, stayed on the wagon hasn't really given me a defense that gives me reason to believe otherwise.
Yes I get timezones lack of posts is not really a problem...yet.
You want chaos, I sadly have nothing to provide...yet but I will leave you with this nugget.
Post by: Red Mones on February 01, 2021, 11:59:31 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 02, 2021, 12:00:16 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 02, 2021, 12:01:17 AM
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 02, 2021, 12:08:15 AM
Hapi 2 (Red, Melehan)
Red 2 (Hapi, cozmikrae)
Michi 2 (Gerrick, Vroendal)
Wintermoot 1 (NyghtOwl)
Doc 1 (Ruguo)
Vroendal 1 (Sapphiron)
Sapphiron 1 (TGN)
Ruguo then voted for Michi to apply some pressure.
Not sure if TGN's post after that was voting for Michi since they had their vote on Sapphiron and then said Unvote: Michi.
NyghtOwl then changed their vote to Hapi thinking Wintermoot was just like voting a third party candidate and citing the potential for chaos.
Then TGN changed their vote to a joke vote on Laurentus. (for editing a post)
Then I made my No Lynch vote (pending more information).
Hapi then changed their vote to cozmikrae. (jumping on a joke wagon but not convincing Hapi why)
Hapi 3 (Red, Melehan, NyghtOwl)
Red 1 (cozmikrae)
Michi 3 (Gerrick, Vroendal, Ruguo)
Vroendal 1 (Sapphiron)
Laurentus 1 (TGN)
cozmikrae 1 (Hapi)
No Lynch 1 (Kane)
I will check this game later but now I am going to focus on school stuff.
Post by: Red Mones on February 02, 2021, 12:15:03 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 02, 2021, 12:21:04 AM
Post by: Michi on February 02, 2021, 12:27:38 AM
Uh...I truly greatly appreciate the effort you've put into collecting your information, thank you for that. ^ ^ However, I'm reticent to accept any testimony as relevant to this game if it happened more than a year ago, which I think should be understandable. The strongest arguments should be made with your latest games and I don't put any real stock in games from 2015-2016 particularly since you've played other games and gained new experiences since then.
Games where I voted Day 1 for someone other than myself:
WWXIII (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0) When Laurentus voted for me. I was a neutral role.
Portal Attempt 1 (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6530.75) When I was a Jailer, and considered a Green/Curiosity Core
Portal Attempt 2 (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6530.75) When I was a turret.
WWIX (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=3926.15) When I was the Protector
Games where I didn't vote D1 or voted for myself to avoid an inactivity lynch:
WWXIX (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6099.60) Didn't vote. Was a neutral role.
WWXVI (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=5539.45) Voted self to avoid an inactivity lynch since voting was required each phase. Was one of the Vampires.
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=3513.15 (http://) Voted self to avoid an inactivity lynch since voting of some form was required each phase. I was one of the Jedi Protectors
WWIV (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=2262.0) Voted for the shrubbery because why not? I was a Villager/Peasant aka Horse Master for that game.
Other games not listed were either ones I didn't participate in (Game of Thrones, Werewolf 40,0000, Those of No Reflection 2, This Little Thing of Ours) or ones I hosted myself (1-3, 5&6, 10/10-2, 12 &13, 15, 17&18, 21).
So no, there's nothing to suggest that it's common except in 2 (technically 3 since 1 was a two attempter) recent games, and in fact it's much more shaky when it comes to how I do D1 as a role and depending on the rule.
I do concede that there may be different variables for a given game such as your role, but your most recent games have shown a trend that appears to be Alignment Indicitive that I haven't yet seen in this one, which makes it certainly worth investigating.
If you had to vote right here, who would you vote for and why?
What you also fail to account for is that:
A) While my playstyle has changed and I "gained" new experience (which if by that you mean I've gotten quieter and usually only speak up if the rules are pushy with it or I'm defending myself), I started way back in 2013, so why you're omitting 2015-2016 is beyond me.
B) Outside factors such as MU/Bulba/ZD have influenced how we do games. From adding a posts-per-day requirement to Portal, to using MU lingo and "reads" lists, to players like Lau throwing in psych tactics because of how differently and sometimes 10x more brutally they play, it's overall affected how the recent games are.
If anything I'm trying to play a regular vanilla game like we used to when those outside things weren't this big influencer on our games, not the kill-happy gun-at-everyone game that we've been used to for these past few games.
And I stick by that I wouldn't vote anyone. I'd definitely suggest the seer-role checking out Mele because of her weird KILL-HAPI insistence, but our D1 issue is that we always kill a good role off first, so why risk it for the 24th time?
Post by: Vroendal on February 02, 2021, 12:54:01 AM
Spoiler
What you also fail to account for is that:
A) While my playstyle has changed and I "gained" new experience (which if by that you mean I've gotten quieter and usually only speak up if the rules are pushy with it or I'm defending myself), I started way back in 2013, so why you're omitting 2015-2016 is beyond me.
B) Outside factors such as MU/Bulba/ZD have influenced how we do games. From adding a posts-per-day requirement to Portal, to using MU lingo and "reads" lists, to players like Lau throwing in psych tactics because of how differently and sometimes 10x more brutally they play, it's overall affected how the recent games are.
If anything I'm trying to play a regular vanilla game like we used to when those outside things weren't this big influencer on our games, not the kill-happy gun-at-everyone game that we've been used to for these past few games.
And I stick by that I wouldn't vote anyone. I'd definitely suggest the seer-role checking out Mele because of her weird KILL-HAPI insistence, but our D1 issue is that we always kill a good role off first, so why risk it for the 24th time?
B) I'm struggling to understand what exactly you mean by this point in your overall argument, would you be able to clarify? Recent games have changed the way the community at large plays, but what it sounds like you're arguing is that since that is true I should ignore the trend I've seen? I don't make sense of this.
My issue isn't that you're not being lynch-happy, it's that you're not being noticeably reticent to vote now when you have had no qualms in the recent past as non-scum roles. It's not your style so much as your departure from what you've tended to do as town. I also dislike the way in which your post could imply that newer players shouldn't vote or question others if they feel like it.
I'm also incredibly wary of you just suggesting that the Seer should check out a specific person, you trying to lead them away from your scum-buds? :p If we lynch you now as a scum role we would break that trend, wouldn't we? >:D
I'm sorry for making a longer post y'all, but I think my points warrant extended explanation. I'm taking a chill pill now.
Post by: Vroendal on February 02, 2021, 01:06:26 AM
While I was about 60% sure something was fishy when I thought about your first post, I'm now about 90% sure you're scum.
@Wintermoot
@Sapphiron
I apologize for the pings, may we hear anything you'd like to contribute? ^ ^ Doesn't have to be about anything specific.
Post by: Red Mones on February 02, 2021, 01:21:58 AM
UnvoteNo, it's not obvious, all points made by you and Mel have been fully rebutted. Mel can get a pass, she's pushing for reactions, you're pushing to get a lynch. Although, I would like an explanation as to why your vote is still on me @cozmikrae. Also, we've repeatedly lynched new players because we thought they were suspicious, and they almost always flipped town from what I can remember, just because it might've worked out with TGN is not really fair.
Vote: cozmik
I think it's obvious why but here we go. Jumped on a joke, stayed on the wagon hasn't really given me a defense that gives me reason to believe otherwise.
Post by: Michi on February 02, 2021, 01:50:16 AM
Actually Michi, the fact that you won't say who you would vote at all is really making me more convinced of your guilt. Are you trying to avoid being read or having others read by purposefully not giving information we can use to make reads? I never even told you specifically to vote, but you're this opposed to helping town?
While I was about 60% sure something was fishy when I thought about your first post, I'm now about 90% sure you're scum.
@Wintermoot
@Sapphiron
I apologize for the pings, may we hear anything you'd like to contribute? ^ ^ Doesn't have to be about anything specific.
I mean, if you're really that convinced, then please continue the train. It worked well enough in the last game where I was Smeagol, and since I was a turret 2 (technically 3 games since Summersend) games ago in Portal and that logic ended up proving correct in that game, then by all means incoporate it here.
As I said, I just want to play a vanilla game where we're not all at each other's throats D1 like it used to be, but if that makes me scum, then please do keep the train going and lynch me if you're that sure, I absolutely won't try to stop you.
Post by: Melehan on February 02, 2021, 01:58:17 AM
I think this is a classic case of a newbie getting lynched because their every misstep is taken as suspicious.I would just like to point out that new to the region does not necessarily mean new to WW, but I'm also not actually trying to get cozmik lynched D1 because that would make for a sucky first game in Wintreath.
All bets are off D2 onwards, depending on what info we get.
I will say that, from what little I've seen so far, I'm not inclined to underestimate her. And I'm also side-eyeing the whole "new to Wintreath = new to WW" angle you hve going there.
Post by: TGN on February 02, 2021, 02:11:38 AM
TNG - I'm not sure what's going on with the voting there, but it is suspicious. Especially since I know he's smarter than he might initially appear...first off
thank you for calling me smart c:
secondly
when have I showed my "intelligence" on the forum?
(if you can find a link then I'll shut up)
Post by: Doc on February 02, 2021, 02:14:08 AM
OMG IT SAID YOU EDITIED THE POST!!!!!!!The werewolf is not the host.
YOU EDITED THE POST AND THEREFORE BROKE THE RULES OF THE GAME
VOTE LAU
FOR EDITING POST!!!!!!!!!!
lol
Come on, you and I both know you're more competent than this. Take this seriously.
For now I will use my No Lynch vote but that will change later on since I am sure some other players will eventually look more suspicious.I don't love D1 No Lynch votes. Seems a copout to avoid handing out information. I understand it from newer players, but you're far too experienced to be sold on this.
I remember when nobody would bite TGN because of this exact reason :-\Do I harangue sufficiently?
As I said, I just want to play a vanilla game where we're not all at each other's throats D1 like it used to be, but if that makes me scum, then please do keep the train going and lynch me if you're that sure, I absolutely won't try to stop you.I think that ship sailed around when we got into the whole MU thing and some of the slang and culture got imported back in here. Probably right around the time we started saying 'scum' instead of 'wolves'. It just doesn't seem to be the way games go anymore.
In unrelated news: for wagonomics reasons (and, more pragmatically, a rapidly expiring clock, since I believe we have around 18 hours to go in this day), I'm biting the bullet and going to Vote: Hapi. I'm persuaded at this point that it's going to come down to one of the two leading wagons (being her and Michi, if Kane's count is right) and considering that my past experiences with leaving things purely up to RNGesus generally haven't gone well, I'm going to experiment this time.
Post by: Red Mones on February 02, 2021, 02:17:40 AM
Actually that's a fair point, though what I was getting at was that I knew them IRL so I'm aware of what they would've played.I think this is a classic case of a newbie getting lynched because their every misstep is taken as suspicious.I would just like to point out that new to the region does not necessarily mean new to WW, but I'm also not actually trying to get cozmik lynched D1 because that would make for a sucky first game in Wintreath.
All bets are off D2 onwards, depending on what info we get.
I will say that, from what little I've seen so far, I'm not inclined to underestimate her. And I'm also side-eyeing the whole "new to Wintreath = new to WW" angle you hve going there.
Post by: Michi on February 02, 2021, 02:25:01 AM
OMG IT SAID YOU EDITIED THE POST!!!!!!!The werewolf is not the host.
YOU EDITED THE POST AND THEREFORE BROKE THE RULES OF THE GAME
VOTE LAU
FOR EDITING POST!!!!!!!!!!
lol
Come on, you and I both know you're more competent than this. Take this seriously.
Yeah, we already had our Werewolf-as-the-host game. As crazy as Lau is, I doubt he's going that route for this game since it's supposed to be a vanilla game.
Quote
I think that ship sailed around when we got into the whole MU thing and some of the slang and culture got imported back in here. Probably right around the time we started saying 'scum' instead of 'wolves'. It just doesn't seem to be the way games go anymore.
*sigh* sadly that's true. As much as I appreciate the MU mechanics that got brought into future games, I really do miss the older games where it had a bit more of a peaceful vibe, and where I wasn't usually at the top of people's lists of scum reads (or just straight up lynched) most games since I can never seem to properly defend myself.
Then again, we also did have a bad habit of lynching the seer and Moot (and Moot as the Seer) D1 in a lot of older games, so there's definitely tropes about those games that I'm glad we mostly broke free of.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 02, 2021, 03:53:03 AM
Cozmik thus reads to me more as "a player we aren't familiar with lying low to pass as inexperienced" than someone actually inexperienced.I can personally vouch for cozmikrae being inexperienced as I invited them to Wintreath.Interesting tactic here, you seem to want me to accuse you? Why are you pointing out how suspicious you're being? Are you protecting Red Mones? Are you drawing attention away from something/someone else?I don't understand what you're getting at here. I don't see any of this in Mel's post at all.
Page 2: Melehan called me out for voting for you when she was trying to get Hapi voted off and thought I didn't notice. Brought it up again in an additional discussion. She's asking for some kind of attention with the whole blood sacrifice thing. Perhaps to get reactions? But I'm not convinced we should lynch her. ...Yet
UnvoteNo, it's not obvious, all points made by you and Mel have been fully rebutted. Mel can get a pass, she's pushing for reactions, you're pushing to get a lynch. Although, I would like an explanation as to why your vote is still on me @cozmikrae. Also, we've repeatedly lynched new players because we thought they were suspicious, and they almost always flipped town from what I can remember, just because it might've worked out with TGN is not really fair.
Vote: cozmik
I think it's obvious why but here we go. Jumped on a joke, stayed on the wagon hasn't really given me a defense that gives me reason to believe otherwise.
Lol you guys really want my whole strategy. I'm not new to WW/mafia type games, but I am new to playing with you guys and new to forums. So I'm playing my cards close to my chest because that seems wise.
That said, you all are relentless. My vote is on you because I wanted to see what would happen. Like 5 posts in, a joke about killing someone was as much proof as I needed. Additionally, 2 votes for Hapi had already happened. I didn't (still don't) know much about Hapi and didn't necessarily see that jumping on that blood sacrifice bandwagon was advantageous. So I went the other route. My vote is still on you, because it's the only one, (I believe?) so you're not exactly getting lynched. And right this second, I'm not all the way convinced about voting for anyone else. Although, that will rapidly change in the next few hours. That said, you defended me and I believe you had no dishonest reasons to do so, so...
Unvote.
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 04:31:00 AM
Post by: TGN on February 02, 2021, 04:43:06 AM
I should get serious
Unvote
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 02, 2021, 04:49:54 AM
While I would rather vote No Lynch, I am not actually planning to. I am just using it as a placeholder which I thought I made clear with that wording. Also what information could I hand out without pinning a target on me? It is only D1.For now I will use my No Lynch vote but that will change later on since I am sure some other players will eventually look more suspicious.I don't love D1 No Lynch votes. Seems a copout to avoid handing out information. I understand it from newer players, but you're far too experienced to be sold on this.
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 04:50:22 AM
Unvote Michi
just cuz
TGN, you were previously voting for Sapph, so I am unsure what to make of this. Did you simultaneously unvote Sapph and then vote for Michi?
Oh, whoops, I suppose this irrelevant now, since you don't currently have any vote.
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 05:00:36 AM
Hapi - 3 (Red Mones, Melehan, Doc)
Michi - 3 (Vroendal, Gerrick, Ruguo)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
So that leaves the following people as currently not voting:
@Dawcreek
@Wischland
@Minish
@Michi
@Imaginative Kane
@BraveSirRobin
@TGN
@Wintermoot
@NyghtOwl
@Ogun of Valeria
@Alexander Valentine
@cozmikrae
I am hereby also officially extending the time for the phase for another 24 hours from this post.
Post by: Gerrick on February 02, 2021, 05:02:59 AM
Post by: Gerrick on February 02, 2021, 05:04:42 AM
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 05:09:33 AM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/806029233452875826/unknown.png)
Can all of you just please make sure this is right?
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 05:15:03 AM
@Wischland
@Minish
@Michi
@Imaginative Kane
@BraveSirRobin
@TGN
@Wintermoot
@NyghtOwl
@Ogun of Valeria
@Alexander Valentine
@cozmikrae
According to my vote count, you are not currently voting for anyone.
Post by: Wischland on February 02, 2021, 05:15:26 AM
I refreshed the page and saw the day phase has been extended. Unfortunately, I already typed everything, and it pains me to just delete it. So, here goes. Sorry for changing the vote count Lau.
Vote: Michi
Michi's lack of a quick vote is a noticeable difference from their previous plays, and, as has been pointed out, looks much closer to their scum style. I find Michi's defense to be pretty unconvincing, mainly relying on emotional calls to games long finished. If they really wanted a chill game like in old times, I feel like it would have been brought up more explicitly in their first post. Even after Vro asked who Michi would vote for, Michi still hasn't cast a vote, even in self-defense. If Michi is scum, this avoids giving out information and protecting whomever Michi votes for as a likely townie. So perhaps the other players with high votes are town? Either way, Michi isn't giving me the same vibes from last game, so I think this is the best bet at the moment.
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 05:27:24 AM
EDIT: Corrected vote count
Hapi - 2 (Melehan, Doc)
Michi - 3 (Vroendal, Gerrick, Ruguo)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 02, 2021, 05:32:10 AM
Is it too late to change my vote? I feel like I'm voting for a third party candidate going with Moot. And looking at the chaos Hapi makes, well, I don't know if that's gonna be a good thing for us in the long run. So, can I Vote Hapi?
As for my own vote, I am still thinking about that. I definitely disagree with the current wagons though.
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 05:36:02 AM
Pretty sure NyghtOwl did change their vote. Here's the post.Is it too late to change my vote? I feel like I'm voting for a third party candidate going with Moot. And looking at the chaos Hapi makes, well, I don't know if that's gonna be a good thing for us in the long run. So, can I Vote Hapi?
As for my own vote, I am still thinking about that. I definitely disagree with the current wagons though.
Yeah, you're right.
Amended vote count:
Hapi - 3 (Melehan, Doc, NyghtOwl)
Michi - 3 (Vroendal, Gerrick, Ruguo)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
Post by: Red Mones on February 02, 2021, 05:40:49 AM
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 05:42:23 AM
Hapi - 3 (Melehan, Doc, NyghtOwl)
Michi - 4 (Vroendal, Gerrick, Ruguo, Wischland)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
Also, thanks to @Gerrick for correcting me here!
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 02, 2021, 05:50:09 AM
Post by: Michi on February 02, 2021, 05:51:38 AM
So if I'm counting hours correctly, the day phase is almost over which means I need to get my vote in!
I refreshed the page and saw the day phase has been extended. Unfortunately, I already typed everything, and it pains me to just delete it. So, here goes. Sorry for changing the vote count Lau.
Vote: Michi
Michi's lack of a quick vote is a noticeable difference from their previous plays, and, as has been pointed out, looks much closer to their scum style. I find Michi's defense to be pretty unconvincing, mainly relying on emotional calls to games long finished. If they really wanted a chill game like in old times, I feel like it would have been brought up more explicitly in their first post. Even after Vro asked who Michi would vote for, Michi still hasn't cast a vote, even in self-defense. If Michi is scum, this avoids giving out information and protecting whomever Michi votes for as a likely townie. So perhaps the other players with high votes are town? Either way, Michi isn't giving me the same vibes from last game, so I think this is the best bet at the moment.
You mean that last game where I did a reactionary vote against someone who voted for me? Or the game before where I ended up being a bad guy?
Because both times worked so well. :P
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 05:52:58 AM
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 02, 2021, 06:02:08 AM
I will vote BraveSirRobin for now since they fit the bill and I wonder if they are doing what I often do: view the forums without logging in.
Post by: Vroendal on February 02, 2021, 06:20:32 AM
The main player I am not at all suspicious of so far is NyghtOwl. I like their original voting justification so for now I will go off of that in case I am not active before the day ends. BSR seems a bit too quiet so far but they haven't been online for a while so that is somewhat excusable. I really don't have any plausible suspicions so far. Just weak suspicions of Robin, Melehan, and Minish. I just have a gut feeling with Minish for some reason. Neither Hapi nor Michi seem scummy to me. Everyone else is generally on the same level as Hapi and Michi, neither suspicious nor not suspicious.I've been holding on to something regarding BSR for a while, but would honestly rather have us focus on the wagons before us atm. BSR hasn't contributed enough of anything to warrant a lynch D1, considering he even has yet to post. Let's just say if Michi flips scum, BSR will become the most likely player to be scum in my eyes immediately.
I will vote BraveSirRobin for now since they fit the bill and I wonder if they are doing what I often do: view the forums without logging in.
Post by: Ruguo on February 02, 2021, 06:23:17 AM
Wait, I don't quite understand. What are you holding on to regarding BSR? Am I missing something?The main player I am not at all suspicious of so far is NyghtOwl. I like their original voting justification so for now I will go off of that in case I am not active before the day ends. BSR seems a bit too quiet so far but they haven't been online for a while so that is somewhat excusable. I really don't have any plausible suspicions so far. Just weak suspicions of Robin, Melehan, and Minish. I just have a gut feeling with Minish for some reason. Neither Hapi nor Michi seem scummy to me. Everyone else is generally on the same level as Hapi and Michi, neither suspicious nor not suspicious.I've been holding on to something regarding BSR for a while, but would honestly rather have us focus on the wagons before us atm. BSR hasn't contributed enough of anything to warrant a lynch D1, considering he even has yet to post. Let's just say if Michi flips scum, BSR will become the most likely player to be scum in my eyes immediately.
I will vote BraveSirRobin for now since they fit the bill and I wonder if they are doing what I often do: view the forums without logging in.
On another note, I did not realize quite how many people had yet to vote and/or post. Perhaps I have been jumpy considering that there are people we have yet to hear from, ans statistically speaking, one of them will say something that will end up being useful.
Post by: Wischland on February 02, 2021, 06:28:03 AM
You mean that last game where I did a reactionary vote against someone who voted for me? Or the game before where I ended up being a bad guy?I'm running off of last game and what others have said about your playstyle. Sure, rapid D1 voting may not always work the best, but that isn't stopping anyone else from doing it. That fact that you're different sticks out and makes you seem scummy.
Because both times worked so well. :P
Post by: Vroendal on February 02, 2021, 06:32:30 AM
Wait, I don't quite understand. What are you holding on to regarding BSR? Am I missing something?All shall be revealed come night time. :p I would have expected Mel to pick it up, not sure why she hasn't yet. :/
On another note, I did not realize quite how many people had yet to vote and/or post. Perhaps I have been jumpy considering that there are people we have yet to hear from, ans statistically speaking, one of them will say something that will end up being useful.
Wintermoot, BSR, Daw, and Alexander haven't posted even once. I am sad about it.
Post by: Michi on February 02, 2021, 06:34:19 AM
You mean that last game where I did a reactionary vote against someone who voted for me? Or the game before where I ended up being a bad guy?I'm running off of last game and what others have said about your playstyle. Sure, rapid D1 voting may not always work the best, but that isn't stopping anyone else from doing it. That fact that you're different sticks out and makes you seem scummy.
Because both times worked so well. :P
??? ??? ???
There's so much wrong with that statement, but okay. Sure. The fact that I'm going against what a kill-hungry bunch wants is completely scummy. Totally makes sense there.
Post by: Ruguo on February 02, 2021, 06:36:42 AM
All shall be revealed come night time. :p I would have expected Mel to pick it up, not sure why she hasn't yet. :/...I think I understand? Maybe? If I'm not doing a big dumb, that is.
Wintermoot, BSR, Daw, and Alexander haven't posted even once. I am sad about it.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 02, 2021, 06:55:05 AM
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 07:33:33 AM
7. There may not be any night-talking in this game. As soon as the day phase ends, I will lock the thread.
Post by: Minish on February 02, 2021, 08:07:03 AM
I would normally be on that, as scum will often avoid saying much so as not to slip so it's much more a scum tactic than town. Since town shouldn't be afraid of stating their mind because it's the only way we can figure this game out. And there are just too many people saying this for me to think they're all scum.
Ogun and Kane had some iffy posts to me in my read through. But it's really weak so not anything I feel worth pursuing at the moment.
Red has been interesting. There's something about his posts that sound like they come from scum mindset to me and I can't quite put my finger on it. Kinda feels like he's trying to shield suspicion on certain players in less of an uninformed town mindset. But that could just be his normal way of posting. It's hard to get too much meta on people when I've only played here a couple of times and the games are so big.
Silver, er Ruguo, I do have some meta on (though not great because I don't remember his scum game that well), and he has felt a little off tone wise to me this game. He's throwing out a lot of suspicion when I usually find he's more lost as town. But it could also be a case of knowing y'all better.
So I guess Red, Ruguo, Michi, Ogun, and Kane are the main ones that I'd like to keep an eye on.
Having these two close competing wagons is good though. My one hesitation with the Michi wagon is that it seems he possibly gets easy suspicions on him a lot? I would prefer his lynch over Hapi's right now though.
Vote: Michi
Post by: TGN on February 02, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
I don't want to ruffle any feathers
the feathers, are already RUFFLED! (oversimplified)
Post by: Wintermoot on February 02, 2021, 11:14:35 AM
For me, I'm not convinced on the Michi bandwagon. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems awfully convoluted for D1. If he's a wolf, he could have jumped on any of the wagons that could have formed earlier in the day and nobody would be the wiser because it's all just guessing. He could have safety voted for another wolf to put distance between him and the wolf in the event one of them got killed later. I understand none of us have much to go on so I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems awfully convoluted a strategy for him to be playing on D1 when it's not necessary.
Two things that did rub me the wrong way when I was reading through though...I hate, hate, hate wagonimics reasoning (@Doc), because it comes off as someone wanting to sound like they have a reason for voting for a specific person, but don't have a good one and this is the best they can do. I do remember not liking that reasoning from Laurentus either last game and he ended up being town, so it's not high suspicion, just something I don't care for. =|
But the biggest thing that felt off was @Red Mones's defense of cozmik. I know they're friends and he invited her here, but he seems so certain that she shouldn't be suspect because she's new (very odd since a new player was the wolf in our last game that he hosted), and at this point the only people who can be certain of the roles are the wolves. All while she was voting for him, too...one doesn't usually defend someone who is voting to have you killed. But what's really odd is out how he put himself out there to defend her when she was never a serious contender for being killed to begin with. She's never had more than a single vote this round. The whole thing feels very overreactive/unnatural and out of place to me, and for that reason I have to vote: Red Mones at this point.
cozmik herself hasn't really done anything that looks particularly suspicious to me...ironically, the only thing that makes her seem suspicious to me is RM's defense of her.
Then again, we also did have a bad habit of lynching the seer and Moot (and Moot as the Seer) D1 in a lot of older games, so there's definitely tropes about those games that I'm glad we mostly broke free of.Yeah, I'm glad we broke free of that one, too. :))
Post by: Wintermoot on February 02, 2021, 11:24:01 AM
Hapi -> Red Mones RM 1
Red Mones -> Hapi RM 1, Hapi 1
Melehan -> Hapi Hapi 2, RM 1
Cozmikrae -> Red Mones RM 2, Hapi 2
NyghtOwl -> Wintermoot RM 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1
Ruguo -> Doc RM 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Doc 1
Sapphiron -> Vroendal RM 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1
Gerrick -> Michi RM 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 1
TGN -> Sapphiron RM 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 1, Sapph 1
Red Mones -> Melehan RM 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 1, Sapph 1, Mel 1
Red Mones -> Unvote RM 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 1, Sapph 1
Vro -> Michi RM 2, Michi 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Sapph 1
Ruguo -> Michi Michi 3, RM 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Vro 1, Sapph 1
TGN -> Michi Michi 4, RM 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Vro 1
NyghtOwl -> Hapi Michi 4, RM 2, Hapi 2, Vro 1
Kane -> No Lynch Michi 4, RM 2, Hapi 2, Vro 1
Hapi -> cozmikrae Michi 4, Hapi 2, RM 1, Vro 1, coz 1
Doc -> Hapi Michi 4, Hapi 3, RM 1, Vro 1, coz 1
Coz -> Unvote Michi 4, Hapi 3, Vro 1, coz 1
TGN -> Unvote Michi 3, Hapi 3, Vro 1, coz 1
Wischland -> Michi Michi 4, Hapi 3, Vro 1, coz 1
Kane -> BSR Michi 4, Hapi 3, Vro 1, coz 1, BSR 1
Minish -> Michi Michi 5, Hapi 3, Vro 1, coz 1, BSR 1
Wintermoot -> Red Mones Michi 5, Hapi 3, Vro 1, coz 1, BSR 1, RM 1
Post by: Minish on February 02, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
I honestly wasn't sure if I was just reading into Red too much, but someone that knows them better having similar reason helps bolster that a bit. And I love the idea of 3 competing wagons d1. So...
Unvote
Vote: Red Mones
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 11:55:33 AM
Red Mones - 2 (Minish, Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 3 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Vroendal, Gerrick, Wischland)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
With the following either still having to vote, or electing not to vote altogether, or deciding to vote "no lynch."
Red Mones
Dawcreek
Michi
Imaginative Kane
BraveSirRobin
TGN
Ogun of Valeria
Alexander Valentine
Cozmikrae
Eastern New England
Vote count sheet
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/806135000093294612/unknown.png)
Post by: TGN on February 02, 2021, 01:46:31 PM
Okay, as of now, I think this is the vote count:I skiped vote
Red Mones - 2 (Minish, Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 3 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Vroendal, Gerrick, Wischland)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
With the following either still having to vote, or electing not to vote altogether, or deciding to vote "no lynch."
Red Mones
Dawcreek
Michi
Imaginative Kane
BraveSirRobin
TGN
Ogun of Valeria
Alexander Valentine
Cozmikrae
Eastern New EnglandVote count sheet(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/806135000093294612/unknown.png)
Post by: Vroendal on February 02, 2021, 04:31:23 PM
Relevant Minish quotes
Red has been interesting. There's something about his posts that sound like they come from scum mindset to me and I can't quite put my finger on it. Kinda feels like he's trying to shield suspicion on certain players in less of an uninformed town mindset. But that could just be his normal way of posting. It's hard to get too much meta on people when I've only played here a couple of times and the games are so big.
So I guess Red, Ruguo, Michi, Ogun, and Kane are the main ones that I'd like to keep an eye on.
Having these two close competing wagons is good though. My one hesitation with the Michi wagon is that it seems he possibly gets easy suspicions on him a lot? I would prefer his lynch over Hapi's right now though.
Vote: Michi
Oooh spicy. Winter has the same feeling on Red as I do. I don't quite agree with everything in his post (especially wagonimics because I love using that to find scum), but we're on kinda similar wavelengths here.
I honestly wasn't sure if I was just reading into Red too much, but someone that knows them better having similar reason helps bolster that a bit. And I love the idea of 3 competing wagons d1. So...
Unvote
Vote: Red Mones
For Minish
grimly looks at the times I messed up last game, goes for it anyway
A problem I have with you voting RM is that I really don't think it's RM. He's done more things that I feel comes from a townie mindset than from a scummy mindset, e.g. waffling on his vote on Mel and researching Michi's games to confirm my statements for himself. His statements "defending" cozmik wasn't even exactly defending her, but more exposing what I agree was hypocrisy in Mel's readlist and pushing back against Hapi's lack of strong reasoning. I'm quite bad at reading interactions, but the way cozmik attacked him for defending her also feels more natural and coming from a new player than not. Would you be able to state in your own words what you find suspicious about Red?
I'll have to think about Moot's statements more, but this is reminding me of the way he attacked Sapph in the LOTR game and I do see where he is coming from so I won't fault him for thinking someone is sus who I think is inno. You however are someone who I feel would have ISO'd Red and seen the same things I did, so now I'm wondering why you want RM as a wagon contender?
Another thing is that I think we can get more information out of Michi's lynch anyway, as I've said I've seen a link between him and BSR, which is better for town than a link between RM and cozmik, because cozmik has contributed to the discussion while BSR has not. Besides that Michi has been reticent to be forthcoming about any specific reads he has which I feel is a scummier play. Whether he is what I suppose is an easier lynch as a result of his style or not, there still is validation in suspicion against him that I'm really not seeing against RM.
I do like the idea have having multiple options to wagon at EoD, but it makes it that much easier for scum to swoop in and get a majority on a player I have been town tone-reading.
My main problem with the way you approached this is that it would be easy for you to set up RM to lynch him and have him flip town, then say something to the effect that you voted him for wagonomics and what I feel is a lackluster connection between him and an irl friend, and that you weren't around at EoD to switch while backtracking on the idea that you has previously sussed Michi. Would you please provide more justification for your vote on RM?
A problem I have with you voting RM is that I really don't think it's RM. He's done more things that I feel comes from a townie mindset than from a scummy mindset, e.g. waffling on his vote on Mel and researching Michi's games to confirm my statements for himself. His statements "defending" cozmik wasn't even exactly defending her, but more exposing what I agree was hypocrisy in Mel's readlist and pushing back against Hapi's lack of strong reasoning. I'm quite bad at reading interactions, but the way cozmik attacked him for defending her also feels more natural and coming from a new player than not. Would you be able to state in your own words what you find suspicious about Red?
I'll have to think about Moot's statements more, but this is reminding me of the way he attacked Sapph in the LOTR game and I do see where he is coming from so I won't fault him for thinking someone is sus who I think is inno. You however are someone who I feel would have ISO'd Red and seen the same things I did, so now I'm wondering why you want RM as a wagon contender?
Another thing is that I think we can get more information out of Michi's lynch anyway, as I've said I've seen a link between him and BSR, which is better for town than a link between RM and cozmik, because cozmik has contributed to the discussion while BSR has not. Besides that Michi has been reticent to be forthcoming about any specific reads he has which I feel is a scummier play. Whether he is what I suppose is an easier lynch as a result of his style or not, there still is validation in suspicion against him that I'm really not seeing against RM.
I do like the idea have having multiple options to wagon at EoD, but it makes it that much easier for scum to swoop in and get a majority on a player I have been town tone-reading.
My main problem with the way you approached this is that it would be easy for you to set up RM to lynch him and have him flip town, then say something to the effect that you voted him for wagonomics and what I feel is a lackluster connection between him and an irl friend, and that you weren't around at EoD to switch while backtracking on the idea that you has previously sussed Michi. Would you please provide more justification for your vote on RM?
Post by: Melehan on February 02, 2021, 04:36:27 PM
Going page-by-page because I'm on mobile at work lol.
Behold Exhibit A, wherein TGN is what is known as a Smart Alec, while also attempting to distance himself from from being seen as smart enough to deceive anyone. A very scummy play, to be certain.TNG - I'm not sure what's going on with the voting there, but it is suspicious. Especially since I know he's smarter than he might initially appear...first off
thank you for calling me smart c:
secondly
when have I showed my "intelligence" on the forum?
(if you can find a link then I'll shut up)
Exhibit B, I present as the game previous wherein TGN had a very interesting habit of liking posts that suspected him of being scum, up until Doc's death outed TGN as actual scum. I got many lols out of noticing that likes trail.
And here we have Exhibit C, as presented by your former fellow scumbud who would be in a position to know:
OMG IT SAID YOU EDITIED THE POST!!!!!!!The werewolf is not the host.
YOU EDITED THE POST AND THEREFORE BROKE THE RULES OF THE GAME
VOTE LAU
FOR EDITING POST!!!!!!!!!!
lol
Come on, you and I both know you're more competent than this. Take this seriously.
Quote from: Doc
In unrelated news: for wagonomics reasons (and, more pragmatically, a rapidly expiring clock, since I believe we have around 18 hours to go in this day), I'm biting the bullet and going to Vote: Hapi. I'm persuaded at this point that it's going to come down to one of the two leading wagons (being her and Michi, if Kane's count is right) and considering that my past experiences with leaving things purely up to RNGesus generally haven't gone well, I'm going to experiment this time.The Walls shall guard you from the perils posed by RNGesus, if you but remain Faithful and Good.
Post by: Melehan on February 02, 2021, 04:41:37 PM
1) As I already stated to Minish, I am absolutely doing it for the reactions.Cozmik thus reads to me more as "a player we aren't familiar with lying low to pass as inexperienced" than someone actually inexperienced.I can personally vouch for cozmikrae being inexperienced as I invited them to Wintreath.Interesting tactic here, you seem to want me to accuse you? Why are you pointing out how suspicious you're being? Are you protecting Red Mones? Are you drawing attention away from something/someone else?I don't understand what you're getting at here. I don't see any of this in Mel's post at all.
Page 2: Melehan called me out for voting for you when she was trying to get Hapi voted off and thought I didn't notice. Brought it up again in an additional discussion. She's asking for some kind of attention with the whole blood sacrifice thing. Perhaps to get reactions? But I'm not convinced we should lynch her. ...YetUnvoteNo, it's not obvious, all points made by you and Mel have been fully rebutted. Mel can get a pass, she's pushing for reactions, you're pushing to get a lynch. Although, I would like an explanation as to why your vote is still on me @cozmikrae. Also, we've repeatedly lynched new players because we thought they were suspicious, and they almost always flipped town from what I can remember, just because it might've worked out with TGN is not really fair.
Vote: cozmik
I think it's obvious why but here we go. Jumped on a joke, stayed on the wagon hasn't really given me a defense that gives me reason to believe otherwise.
Lol you guys really want my whole strategy. I'm not new to WW/mafia type games, but I am new to playing with you guys and new to forums. So I'm playing my cards close to my chest because that seems wise.
That said, you all are relentless. My vote is on you because I wanted to see what would happen. Like 5 posts in, a joke about killing someone was as much proof as I needed. Additionally, 2 votes for Hapi had already happened. I didn't (still don't) know much about Hapi and didn't necessarily see that jumping on that blood sacrifice bandwagon was advantageous. So I went the other route. My vote is still on you, because it's the only one, (I believe?) so you're not exactly getting lynched. And right this second, I'm not all the way convinced about voting for anyone else. Although, that will rapidly change in the next few hours. That said, you defended me and I believe you had no dishonest reasons to do so, so...
Unvote.
2) I KNEW IT!
Post by: Minish on February 02, 2021, 04:51:58 PM
Relevant Minish quotesRed has been interesting. There's something about his posts that sound like they come from scum mindset to me and I can't quite put my finger on it. Kinda feels like he's trying to shield suspicion on certain players in less of an uninformed town mindset. But that could just be his normal way of posting. It's hard to get too much meta on people when I've only played here a couple of times and the games are so big.
So I guess Red, Ruguo, Michi, Ogun, and Kane are the main ones that I'd like to keep an eye on.
Having these two close competing wagons is good though. My one hesitation with the Michi wagon is that it seems he possibly gets easy suspicions on him a lot? I would prefer his lynch over Hapi's right now though.
Vote: MichiOooh spicy. Winter has the same feeling on Red as I do. I don't quite agree with everything in his post (especially wagonimics because I love using that to find scum), but we're on kinda similar wavelengths here.
I honestly wasn't sure if I was just reading into Red too much, but someone that knows them better having similar reason helps bolster that a bit. And I love the idea of 3 competing wagons d1. So...
Unvote
Vote: Red MonesFor Minishgrimly looks at the times I messed up last game, goes for it anyway
A problem I have with you voting RM is that I really don't think it's RM. He's done more things that I feel comes from a townie mindset than from a scummy mindset, e.g. waffling on his vote on Mel and researching Michi's games to confirm my statements for himself. His statements "defending" cozmik wasn't even exactly defending her, but more exposing what I agree was hypocrisy in Mel's readlist and pushing back against Hapi's lack of strong reasoning. I'm quite bad at reading interactions, but the way cozmik attacked him for defending her also feels more natural and coming from a new player than not. Would you be able to state in your own words what you find suspicious about Red?
I'll have to think about Moot's statements more, but this is reminding me of the way he attacked Sapph in the LOTR game and I do see where he is coming from so I won't fault him for thinking someone is sus who I think is inno. You however are someone who I feel would have ISO'd Red and seen the same things I did, so now I'm wondering why you want RM as a wagon contender?
Another thing is that I think we can get more information out of Michi's lynch anyway, as I've said I've seen a link between him and BSR, which is better for town than a link between RM and cozmik, because cozmik has contributed to the discussion while BSR has not. Besides that Michi has been reticent to be forthcoming about any specific reads he has which I feel is a scummier play. Whether he is what I suppose is an easier lynch as a result of his style or not, there still is validation in suspicion against him that I'm really not seeing against RM.
I do like the idea have having multiple options to wagon at EoD, but it makes it that much easier for scum to swoop in and get a majority on a player I have been town tone-reading.
My main problem with the way you approached this is that it would be easy for you to set up RM to lynch him and have him flip town, then say something to the effect that you voted him for wagonomics and what I feel is a lackluster connection between him and an irl friend, and that you weren't around at EoD to switch while backtracking on the idea that you has previously sussed Michi. Would you please provide more justification for your vote on RM?
I'll admit that the suspicion on Red is partially just a gut feeling. As in, I didn't re-ISO him, but it was something I felt while catching up with the game. I tend to do that on d1 when there's no solid evidence but a lot of posts. And the fact that there are so many people this game and no easy way to ISO on mobile makes me take that approach more.
I can go back and look at his posts and point out what made me think that. But really, as of my post it was that I felt he was defending people as if he were in an informed position. It didn't sound like unsure town thoughts. It felt much more certain. I didn't feel like it was just with cozmik either, but I'll recheck that.
What's the link with Michi and BSR again btw?
Also, I think cozmik is likely town so I'm not so much linking them. My suspicion was about Red's tone and not his connection to any certain person.
As to your problems with my vote. I wasn't even expecting anyone to feel similar about Red but wanted my suspicion out there in case I died n1. So it wasn't setting up a lynch by any means. I was uncertain on Red myself, but when Wintermoot seemingly felt the same, it made me want to explore that option more.
Hypothetically, if I'm scum here do you think Wintermoot is also my scumbud?
Also sorry if I didn't address everything, if there's something I forgot you can ask me again. I just get kinda sidetracked responding to long stuff on mobile.
Post by: Melehan on February 02, 2021, 05:02:33 PM
Phew, all y'all people saying you're not saying anything as to not look suspicious are looking suspicious.The one thing keeping Red off my scumspects list is the fact that Red and cozmik are apparently IRL friends, and that this is cozmik's first game here. Red being super defensive of cozmik thus makes sense because I'm sure Red wants cozmik's first game with us to be fun.
I would normally be on that, as scum will often avoid saying much so as not to slip so it's much more a scum tactic than town. Since town shouldn't be afraid of stating their mind because it's the only way we can figure this game out. And there are just too many people saying this for me to think they're all scum.
Ogun and Kane had some iffy posts to me in my read through. But it's really weak so not anything I feel worth pursuing at the moment.
Red has been interesting. There's something about his posts that sound like they come from scum mindset to me and I can't quite put my finger on it. Kinda feels like he's trying to shield suspicion on certain players in less of an uninformed town mindset. But that could just be his normal way of posting. It's hard to get too much meta on people when I've only played here a couple of times and the games are so big.
Silver, er Ruguo, I do have some meta on (though not great because I don't remember his scum game that well), and he has felt a little off tone wise to me this game. He's throwing out a lot of suspicion when I usually find he's more lost as town. But it could also be a case of knowing y'all better.
So I guess Red, Ruguo, Michi, Ogun, and Kane are the main ones that I'd like to keep an eye on.
Having these two close competing wagons is good though. My one hesitation with the Michi wagon is that it seems he possibly gets easy suspicions on him a lot? I would prefer his lynch over Hapi's right now though.
Vote: Michi
Though that friendship could also provide excellent cover for Red and/or cozmik, Red's vote flip-flopping is pretty consistent with townie Red, at least based off the games we've played together.
I'm 100% agreed with you on Ruguo though.
If you're referencing how a quiet BSR is usually a scummy BSR, I definitely noticed that. Otherwise, I'm on Day 2 of a sound-triggered migraine and will probably kick myself for not noticing once the brainpower currently occupied by pain is freed up in another day or two.Wait, I don't quite understand. What are you holding on to regarding BSR? Am I missing something?All shall be revealed come night time. :p I would have expected Mel to pick it up, not sure why she hasn't yet. :/
On another note, I did not realize quite how many people had yet to vote and/or post. Perhaps I have been jumpy considering that there are people we have yet to hear from, ans statistically speaking, one of them will say something that will end up being useful.
Wintermoot, BSR, Daw, and Alexander haven't posted even once. I am sad about it.
Though, with this post, I'm thinking I'm missing the thing.The main player I am not at all suspicious of so far is NyghtOwl. I like their original voting justification so for now I will go off of that in case I am not active before the day ends. BSR seems a bit too quiet so far but they haven't been online for a while so that is somewhat excusable. I really don't have any plausible suspicions so far. Just weak suspicions of Robin, Melehan, and Minish. I just have a gut feeling with Minish for some reason. Neither Hapi nor Michi seem scummy to me. Everyone else is generally on the same level as Hapi and Michi, neither suspicious nor not suspicious.I've been holding on to something regarding BSR for a while, but would honestly rather have us focus on the wagons before us atm. BSR hasn't contributed enough of anything to warrant a lynch D1, considering he even has yet to post. Let's just say if Michi flips scum, BSR will become the most likely player to be scum in my eyes immediately.
I will vote BraveSirRobin for now since they fit the bill and I wonder if they are doing what I often do: view the forums without logging in.
Post by: Minish on February 02, 2021, 05:09:39 PM
I just did an ISO of Red so I could see his progress all together instead of at game pace. The thing that I was picking up on was with cozmik actually. It was that he was pushing the "y'all are gonna mislynch newb town" in a way that I felt came from scum knowing cozmik is town and trying to get easy town cred. Granted, they do seem to know each other irl, so I could see how he would he more likely to have that feeling towards someone he personally knows. However cozmik later said she's not exactly new to mafia so it seems a little odd for Red to use that reasoning.
Also, I was unaware that it was Red who got a few votes on him at the beginning for his opening joke (no offense, but people I don't play with a lot and know fairly well tend to run together to me in games). So it could have been more possible to get votes on him than I thought, so I do see how you could potentially conclude a mislynch setup from me if I'm scum.
Also something I remembered upon my ISO was him pointing out that Mel was possibly hinting at something, voting her, then immediately unvoting saying maybe he saw what she was hinting at but maybe not. I typically find that scum is more likely to point out any potential softs or hints or whatnot, but town is less likely to as not to out potential power roles.
Post by: Vroendal on February 02, 2021, 05:10:53 PM
I'll admit that the suspicion on Red is partially just a gut feeling. As in, I didn't re-ISO him, but it was something I felt while catching up with the game. I tend to do that on d1 when there's no solid evidence but a lot of posts. And the fact that there are so many people this game and no easy way to ISO on mobile makes me take that approach more.Hmm, your answer satisfies me for now. I do think that if you want to throw out your suspicions in case you die you should really point out specifically what pinged you about him though.
I can go back and look at his posts and point out what made me think that. But really, as of my post it was that I felt he was defending people as if he were in an informed position. It didn't sound like unsure town thoughts. It felt much more certain. I didn't feel like it was just with cozmik either, but I'll recheck that.
What's the link with Michi and BSR again btw?
Also, I think cozmik is likely town so I'm not so much linking them. My suspicion was about Red's tone and not his connection to any certain person.
As to your problems with my vote. I wasn't even expecting anyone to feel similar about Red but wanted my suspicion out there in case I died n1. So it wasn't setting up a lynch by any means. I was uncertain on Red myself, but when Wintermoot seemingly felt the same, it made me want to explore that option more.
Hypothetically, if I'm scum here do you think Wintermoot is also my scumbud?
Also sorry if I didn't address everything, if there's something I forgot you can ask me again. I just get kinda sidetracked responding to long stuff on mobile.
I want the link between Michi and BSR to be pointed out by @Melehan
You say you weren't setting up a lynch but you also wanted to start the track of putting RM on a major wagon? That kind of seems the same to me.
I think that if hypothetically you were scum you would be far more likely to pile on a vote from town than from a fellow scumbud. If you and Moot did flip scum at a later time I suppose I would see it though, but as of right now that one interaction isn't saying it to me.
Post by: Vroendal on February 02, 2021, 05:26:40 PM
Minish Quote
@Vroendal
I just did an ISO of Red so I could see his progress all together instead of at game pace. The thing that I was picking up on was with cozmik actually. It was that he was pushing the "y'all are gonna mislynch newb town" in a way that I felt came from scum knowing cozmik is town and trying to get easy town cred. Granted, they do seem to know each other irl, so I could see how he would he more likely to have that feeling towards someone he personally knows. However cozmik later said she's not exactly new to mafia so it seems a little odd for Red to use that reasoning.
Also, I was unaware that it was Red who got a few votes on him at the beginning for his opening joke (no offense, but people I don't play with a lot and know fairly well tend to run together to me in games). So it could have been more possible to get votes on him than I thought, so I do see how you could potentially conclude a mislynch setup from me if I'm scum.
Also something I remembered upon my ISO was him pointing out that Mel was possibly hinting at something, voting her, then immediately unvoting saying maybe he saw what she was hinting at but maybe not. I typically find that scum is more likely to point out any potential softs or hints or whatnot, but town is less likely to as not to out potential power roles.
I'll have to ponder the connection a little more, right now I just think I'm not seeing what you're seeing. I still think it's a better idea to go after Michi at this point.
I think RM, having not watched AoT, was suspicious of Mel for quoting what to him was confusing and chaotic character references and was put off by it rather than seeing a hint of a power role. I also think if he wanted to hint at it he could go about it in far better ways than voting and immediately unvoting.
I shall explore your theories more, but just in short I'm not feeling it right now.
Post by: Melehan on February 02, 2021, 05:30:25 PM
For that reason, I don't believe Michi is actually scum, and I'd recommend looking closer at who has voted and still is voting for Michi up to this point.
Post by: Minish on February 02, 2021, 05:31:15 PM
I'll admit that the suspicion on Red is partially just a gut feeling. As in, I didn't re-ISO him, but it was something I felt while catching up with the game. I tend to do that on d1 when there's no solid evidence but a lot of posts. And the fact that there are so many people this game and no easy way to ISO on mobile makes me take that approach more.Hmm, your answer satisfies me for now. I do think that if you want to throw out your suspicions in case you die you should really point out specifically what pinged you about him though.
I can go back and look at his posts and point out what made me think that. But really, as of my post it was that I felt he was defending people as if he were in an informed position. It didn't sound like unsure town thoughts. It felt much more certain. I didn't feel like it was just with cozmik either, but I'll recheck that.
What's the link with Michi and BSR again btw?
Also, I think cozmik is likely town so I'm not so much linking them. My suspicion was about Red's tone and not his connection to any certain person.
As to your problems with my vote. I wasn't even expecting anyone to feel similar about Red but wanted my suspicion out there in case I died n1. So it wasn't setting up a lynch by any means. I was uncertain on Red myself, but when Wintermoot seemingly felt the same, it made me want to explore that option more.
Hypothetically, if I'm scum here do you think Wintermoot is also my scumbud?
Also sorry if I didn't address everything, if there's something I forgot you can ask me again. I just get kinda sidetracked responding to long stuff on mobile.
I want the link between Michi and BSR to be pointed out by @MelehanI'm not a huge fan that she hasn't said anything about what I feel would be obvious to her.(Hmm, I was about to post this when I saw her post) By EoD if no one points it out I'll explain what I'm pinged by. My theory relies on Michi being scum though, so I kinda want to focus on one at a time.
You say you weren't setting up a lynch but you also wanted to start the track of putting RM on a major wagon? That kind of seems the same to me.
I think that if hypothetically you were scum you would be far more likely to pile on a vote from town than from a fellow scumbud. If you and Moot did flip scum at a later time I suppose I would see it though, but as of right now that one interaction isn't saying it to me.
I did give out the general reason of why I was suspicious of him before I voted him. It was about his tone feeling like it came from an informed mindset, ie scum. With suspicion that isn't super strong, generally if I died I would want people to consider what I said and go back to see if they felt the same.
I'd be interested to hear this connection. Because it potentially sounds like something I wouldn't be privy to, so the point about me switching and not exploring the connection there would he kinda moot.
I meant when I stated my suspicion of Red it was before I voted him. At the time I voted Michi. So it would he odd for me to try to set up a wagon that I didn't think would be going anywhere. This is in the mindset of me being scum btw, since that's how your problems with my suspicion were viewing me. If I'm scum, I don't wait for one potential vote there and immediately hop to it. Actually if I'm scum there I probably don't vote Michi yet and hedge my bets to see if I can get a more preferable mislynch.
And I asked if you think I'm scum with Wintermoot in that scenario because I was going to say that I'm never that agreeable with scumbuds. Haha.
Post by: Minish on February 02, 2021, 05:40:35 PM
Forgive me for the long posts. It's just a huge pain trying to highlight what I need to on my phone to spoiler them. So I do appreciate you spoiler some stuff.
These are the relevant quotes of what I was talking about. The first seems to imply he thinks she is hinting at something, but be he hasn't watched the show he doesn't know what. If it were just confusion about a potential bit because of not having seen the show, I feel like he would have left off the bit about hinting at something. He then further emphasizes the fact by pointing out that Mel liked that post, implying that she is indeed hinting at something.
He then votes, but immediately unvotes because he "sees what she's getting at but probably not". Which seems like odd progression to me.
I get the feeling Mel is hinting at something, but as someone who hasn’t seen AoT, I don’t understand what.
Nah, Vote: Melehan.
Mel liked that? That's interesting...
Actually on second thought Unvote. Maybe I see what she's getting at. Probably not though tbh
Post by: Doc on February 02, 2021, 05:54:23 PM
The one thing keeping Red off my scumspects list is the fact that Red and cozmik are apparently IRL friends, and that this is cozmik's first game here. Red being super defensive of cozmik thus makes sense because I'm sure Red wants cozmik's first game with us to be fun.This tbh. While I don't think cozmik is likely to be the sort to bail after if they got lynched day 1 -
Perhaps best exemplified by how cozmik seemed surprised we wanted to know their strat; like, duh we want to know at least, like, 80% of your strategy, scum wins when townies plays their cards too close to their chests. It'd be one thing if there were neutral roles in this - in which case, yeah, alright, fair play - but there aren't.
Ah well. Not really a major issue though since there was never enough of a pile to be really worth worrying about getting lynched over anyway.
Moving on; I find Minish's reasoning about Mones being a viable third wagon a little wobbly. It's looking like 4:3:2 Michi:Hapi:RM right now, and I expect the leading wagons will soon pick up a slew of votes (on the basis of 'just to tie it up', 'oh X person's argument convinced me', and then 'yeah leave it up to RNGesus') from the 10 who haven't voted yet (largely because in some cases, if they don't even speak we're likely going to be very collectively suspicious of a bunch of people trying to run under the radar).
Moot, I could see just starting a vanity wagon for the purposes of 'I don't really have a target but I'm not sold on either of the two on the chopping block', but joining another one? That's the sort of throw-chum-in-the-water move I might make if I had a scumbud up there and wanted to keep them safe without actively trying to defend them.
Wow, 4 posts after I wrote this up. Y'all...
I'd also just like to point out that the now rather substantial lead Michi has in votes at the moment speaks to me of a wolf pile in there somewhere. We're not so much at multiple wagons as we are seeing The Michi Wagon & The Stragglers.Valid consideration using Moot's count (5:3), but given that Lau's count is 4:3 (and it's Inherently Most Reliable since he's the host) I frankly think it's basically an even split. Obviously as I said above, I think scum (in the even they haven't all already voted) will take advantage and pile onto the leading wagons with claims of 'wanting to tie things up' (which, unfortunately, works because it's also common townie reasoning which I've personally fallen for multiple times), but I don't know if a 1-vote or even 2-vote lead is enough to assume a scum pile (unless there's some aggressive fuckin powerwolves in there).
For that reason, I don't believe Michi is actually scum, and I'd recommend looking closer at who has voted and still is voting for Michi up to this point.
Post by: Minish on February 02, 2021, 06:06:03 PM
Quote
Moving on; I find Minish's reasoning about Mones being a viable third wagon a little wobbly. It's looking like 4:3:2 Michi:Hapi:RM right now, and I expect the leading wagons will soon pick up a slew of votes (on the basis of 'just to tie it up', 'oh X person's argument convinced me', and then 'yeah leave it up to RNGesus') from the 10 who haven't voted yet (largely because in some cases, if they don't even speak we're likely going to be very collectively suspicious of a bunch of people trying to run under the radar).
I didn't necessarily say it was viable but it had the potential to be. Just one more vote and it would be tied for second, just one vote behind the first place one. And wagons that close are good d1 because if one is potentially scum, then it's very likely a townie will be lynched still but it can give us potential insight into who scum is. Also multiple close wagons can tend to have at least one scum wagon. Spread out small wagons are all more likely town. Though keep in mind I'm used to playing games at are typically 12-13 people so it's a bit harder with a much bigger game.
Post by: Melehan on February 02, 2021, 06:09:49 PM
I was looking at Moot's list when I posted that, but also, I suspect that there is an aggressive powerwolf abouts. I'm not sure if that's the migraine talking, but there have been a number of interesting reactions so far that seem to point to it, to me.I'd also just like to point out that the now rather substantial lead Michi has in votes at the moment speaks to me of a wolf pile in there somewhere. We're not so much at multiple wagons as we are seeing The Michi Wagon & The Stragglers.Valid consideration using Moot's count (5:3), but given that Lau's count is 4:3 (and it's Inherently Most Reliable since he's the host) I frankly think it's basically an even split. Obviously as I said above, I think scum (in the even they haven't all already voted) will take advantage and pile onto the leading wagons with claims of 'wanting to tie things up' (which, unfortunately, works because it's also common townie reasoning which I've personally fallen for multiple times), but I don't know if a 1-vote or even 2-vote lead is enough to assume a scum pile (unless there's some aggressive fuckin powerwolves in there).
For that reason, I don't believe Michi is actually scum, and I'd recommend looking closer at who has voted and still is voting for Michi up to this point.
Post by: Melehan on February 02, 2021, 06:10:44 PM
x_x
Post by: Ruguo on February 02, 2021, 06:12:14 PM
Post by: Melehan on February 02, 2021, 06:17:14 PM
I ask everyone remembers but one thing: Migraine!Mel Makes Mistakes
So many mistakes.
Post by: Vroendal on February 02, 2021, 06:19:22 PM
I was looking at Moot's list when I posted that, but also, I suspect that there is an aggressive powerwolf abouts. I'm not sure if that's the migraine talking, but there have been a number of interesting reactions so far that seem to point to it, to me.I think I agree, though I wouldn't know who yet. Minish definitely has the capability to pull it off but I'm not set on anything yet. :/
@Ruguo I need a new perspective, do you have any thoughts you're willing to share on RM, a link between cozmik and RM, Moot's vote, Minish's vote, or anything else at this time?
Post by: Wintermoot on February 02, 2021, 06:21:03 PM
Valid consideration using Moot's count (5:3), but given that Lau's count is 4:3 (and it's Inherently Most Reliable since he's the host) I frankly think it's basically an even split.I haven't really read the new posts yet, but I noticed this...my count was from before Minish unvoted from Michi and voted for RM instead, while Lau's is after. I believe that's the difference in our counts.
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 06:22:28 PM
Melehan's Second Original Post
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/806227209273999492/Screenshot_20210202-201812_Chrome.jpg)
You can go ahead and edit, Mel.
Post by: TGN on February 02, 2021, 06:41:19 PM
it's low
Post by: Laurentus on February 02, 2021, 06:41:33 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 02, 2021, 07:40:29 PM
The one thing keeping Red off my scumspects list is the fact that Red and cozmik are apparently IRL friends, and that this is cozmik's first game here. Red being super defensive of cozmik thus makes sense because I'm sure Red wants cozmik's first game with us to be fun.This tbh. While I don't think cozmik is likely to be the sort to bail after if they got lynched day 1 -I have faith in the Standard Of Friend Red brings around these parts- I don't know that there's too much harm in giving a day 1 'we don't know each other and we might have a wildly different playstyle from what we're used to' moment to give time to get used to it.
Perhaps best exemplified by how cozmik seemed surprised we wanted to know their strat; like, duh we want to know at least, like, 80% of your strategy, scum wins when townies plays their cards too close to their chests. It'd be one thing if there were neutral roles in this - in which case, yeah, alright, fair play - but there aren't.
Ah well. Not really a major issue though since there was never enough of a pile to be really worth worrying about getting lynched over anyway.
Who knows getting lynched D1 might make her love Werewolf here more but decide the game is better played by memeing and sowing general chaos and discontent for the lulz because you get murdered if you actually try to play the game around here :hapisip:
Anyways weather new or not weather a friend or not this is first and foremost a game and we should play it without taking any of that into consideration if someone decides not to continue playing cause the game was played and they died even D1 in their first game they shouldn't be playing. Like this is Werewolf and any suspicious activity will be noted.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 02, 2021, 08:04:23 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 02, 2021, 08:08:03 PM
His statements "defending" cozmik wasn't even exactly defending her, but more exposing what I agree was hypocrisy in Mel's readlist and pushing back against Hapi's lack of strong reasoning.Yeah, I didn't even vote for either Mel (after she posted the read list) or Hapi. I'm not necessarily going for a lynch or even accusing them of being scum, just trying to get more information.
Snip from Moot about me being certain
But the biggest thing that felt off was @Red Mones's defense of cozmik. I know they're friends and he invited her here, but he seems so certain that she shouldn't be suspect because she's new (very odd since a new player was the wolf in our last game that he hosted), and at this point the only people who can be certain of the roles are the wolves.
Snip from Minish about me being certain
But really, as of my post it was that I felt he was defending people as if he were in an informed position. It didn't sound like unsure town thoughts. It felt much more certain.
I just did an ISO of Red so I could see his progress all together instead of at game pace. The thing that I was picking up on was with cozmik actually. It was that he was pushing the "y'all are gonna mislynch newb town" in a way that I felt came from scum knowing cozmik is town and trying to get easy town cred. Granted, they do seem to know each other irl, so I could see how he would he more likely to have that feeling towards someone he personally knows. However cozmik later said she's not exactly new to mafia so it seems a little odd for Red to use that reasoning.
All while she was voting for him, too...one doesn't usually defend someone who is voting to have you killed.I mean, it was a joke vote. If people started pushing against Hapi (who also joke-voted me) and I felt their reasoning wasn't strong, I would 'defend' Hapi and ask for more information from those voters. These initial votes don't really fit into my thinking at all.
He then votes, but immediately unvotes because he "sees what she's getting at but probably not". Which seems like odd progression to me.The flip-flopping is classic townie Red. Ask @Gerrick, he brought it up in summersend WW, so I know he's aware of my meta. Mel also mentions it:
Red's vote flip-flopping is pretty consistent with townie Red, at least based off the games we've played together.
If you're referencing how a quiet BSR is usually a scummy BSR, I definitely noticed that.I don't see it. He was very lurky/inactive in 23 when I hosted. I don't remember if/when I've played with him though, so I may be assigning a ton of weight to an outlier case.
Also, one more point coming from the perspective of me being scum: I, and others here, know my meta (the flip-floppiness), so if I were sucm and trying to replicate that, I wouldn't mix and match the certainty of someone being new, and the flip-flop with Mel.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 02, 2021, 08:21:21 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 02, 2021, 08:25:24 PM
So is there anyone we still haven't heard from? I feel like Gerrick hasn't really said much and has just been lurking a lot. Which, from what I understand is a tactic to avoid attentions. To me that screams sus.Gerrick and Sapph are two players that tend to lurk quite a bit. I would feel better about Gerrick if we lynched Michi and Michi flipped as a wolf. Sapph is too quiet for my liking.
@Gerrick anything to add to the discussion at this point in time? ^ ^
@Sapphiron I will not hesitate to get you voted up tomorrow for being quiet today, all <3
Post by: Ruguo on February 02, 2021, 08:26:35 PM
I need a new perspective, do you have any thoughts you're willing to share on RM, a link between cozmik and RM, Moot's vote, Minish's vote, or anything else at this time?No.
...Fine
I think Red's defensiveness of Cozmik is NAI. I remember that when I first started taking you and Hapi to games I also was very protective of whomever I was playing with- you want your friends to succeed, simple as that. I won't deny that Red has done some very curious things on his own, but I wouldn't throw him onto the red zone for it. I'm not sure Red defending himself with his own meta is great, but it also seems like something he'd do regardless of alignment.
In regards to Moot, his post reeks of "I have no idea what's going on but really tried to make an informed effort", and I can also vouch that it has been busy within the region management. He does make a few good points, but it seems a lot like what I do- read up and only note on things that seem particularly odd, then expand a lot about a little for no good reason.
Minish is in fact, playing like Minish, and I think that her vote for Michi came from a place of one scumspect being lynched being better than no scumspects being lynched, even if it is one that is not your first choice. As Red became a more viable wagon, she swapped places- and I don't think anything is wrong with that. She had her reasons laid out in an earlier post, and has continued to lay out her point of view. It's not one I necessarily believe in, and I'll be staying where I am, but I can't fault her for it.
So is there anyone we still haven't heard from? I feel like Gerrick hasn't really said much and has just been lurking a lot. Which, from what I understand is a tactic to avoid attentions. To me that screams sus.
Shoot, you're right. Gerrick is incredibly quiet scum. We also need to hear from BSR. Neither of them lurking sits well with me.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 02, 2021, 08:32:51 PM
Post by: Minish on February 02, 2021, 08:38:14 PM
I'm not sure here. I'm kinda feeling Michi, kinda not feeling Michi ya feel?
Seems like he might be the easy lynch which I hate. But also Vro had a fair point about him.
I need to head to bed soon. Have half a mind to vote Ruguo. Because I at least know him and he's feeling a bit off to me. But I hate dropping a vote on a new wagon and peacing out.
Okay no I remembered a post and went back to check who said it. Michi tried to direct cop to check Mele so I think I just go there for that plus the meta thing. I don't feel great about it though but eh.
Unvote
Vote: Michi
Post by: Gerrick on February 02, 2021, 08:42:52 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 02, 2021, 08:53:24 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 02, 2021, 08:55:06 PM
Post by: Minish on February 02, 2021, 08:55:32 PM
Sometimes I use commas weirdly
This is a mood.
Post by: Red Mones on February 02, 2021, 08:57:43 PM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 02, 2021, 09:34:51 PM
The one thing keeping Red off my scumspects list is the fact that Red and cozmik are apparently IRL friends, and that this is cozmik's first game here. Red being super defensive of cozmik thus makes sense because I'm sure Red wants cozmik's first game with us to be fun.This tbh. While I don't think cozmik is likely to be the sort to bail after if they got lynched day 1 -I have faith in the Standard Of Friend Red brings around these parts- I don't know that there's too much harm in giving a day 1 'we don't know each other and we might have a wildly different playstyle from what we're used to' moment to give time to get used to it.
Perhaps best exemplified by how cozmik seemed surprised we wanted to know their strat; like, duh we want to know at least, like, 80% of your strategy, scum wins when townies plays their cards too close to their chests. It'd be one thing if there were neutral roles in this - in which case, yeah, alright, fair play - but there aren't.
Ah well. Not really a major issue though since there was never enough of a pile to be really worth worrying about getting lynched over anyway.
Who knows getting lynched D1 might make her love Werewolf here more but decide the game is better played by memeing and sowing general chaos and discontent for the lulz because you get murdered if you actually try to play the game around here :hapisip:
Anyways weather new or not weather a friend or not this is first and foremost a game and we should play it without taking any of that into consideration if someone decides not to continue playing cause the game was played and they died even D1 in their first game they shouldn't be playing. Like this is Werewolf and any suspicious activity will be noted.
What’s sus about me exactly? My Red Mones vote? That’s been retracted. How come you don’t jump on the other wagon, when that may actually help you? Why start a new one that no one else is getting on? ???
Vote: Adorable Oracle Hapi
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 02, 2021, 09:35:12 PM
Yeah and with no editing of posts it's like did i not learn grammar in elementary school? >_>I don't see what's weird about that use of commas. Maybe I don't understand grammar as well as I sometimes think I do.
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 02, 2021, 10:21:06 PM
A notable part of my meta that is not too hard to confirm by reading through past games is that I tend to avoid wagons unless I agree with them (regardless of which side I am on) or I feel the need to join them for self preservation. Also I tend to vote off of hunches when I make my votes unless the reasons for a vote seem sound and I agree with them enough to vote the same. Seeing how big talking seems to be, I understand why I tend to be suspicious. When asked, I will say I am innocent but can not confirm (who wouldn't in this kind of game).
For talk about the meta of others. I have read a few of the previous games and Gerrick seems to be the meta I feel I have the best understanding of. That meta seems to be always relatively quiet and contributing to discussions and then either someone realizing they are scum or someone taking them out at night :)) (Though this is mostly from looking at Star Wars, Batman, and Game of Thrones).
I may have some idea of Red's meta but he has played quite a few games I have not been in so I am not sure. The Game of Thrones meta I remember was being quiet except to vote and sometimes discussing with their votes being primarily joining wagons (mostly at the Wall when they were scum). I think some good points were made earlier about Red on both sides so I won't vote them. I am a little less suspicious of Minish now but still have a lingering gut suspicion (getting vibes from that Portal Werewolf when we were both scum). Otherwise, there isn't really any new suspicions to note. Though I had forgotten about Wintermoot being quiet earlier for some reason.
For now I will keep my vote in place.
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 02, 2021, 10:22:57 PM
The main player I am not at all suspicious of so far is NyghtOwl. I like their original voting justification so for now I will go off of that in case I am not active before the day ends. BSR seems a bit too quiet so far but they haven't been online for a while so that is somewhat excusable. I really don't have any plausible suspicions so far. Just weak suspicions of Robin, Melehan, and Minish. I just have a gut feeling with Minish for some reason. Neither Hapi nor Michi seem scummy to me. Everyone else is generally on the same level as Hapi and Michi, neither suspicious nor not suspicious.@Laurentus you seem to have missed my vote earlier when you were vote counting so here is a reminder. Also the whole post as context for any wondering about it.
I will vote BraveSirRobin for now since they fit the bill and I wonder if they are doing what I often do: view the forums without logging in.
Post by: Melehan on February 02, 2021, 10:25:14 PM
There were a couple of commas that should have been different pieces of punctuation, technically, but at least it was understandable.Yeah and with no editing of posts it's like did i not learn grammar in elementary school? >_>I don't see what's weird about that use of commas. Maybe I don't understand grammar as well as I sometimes think I do.
I am tempted to switch to a joke Red vote because do you have a thing against properly punctuated lists, bro? Because it sure looks like it.
:P
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 02, 2021, 10:41:43 PM
The one thing keeping Red off my scumspects list is the fact that Red and cozmik are apparently IRL friends, and that this is cozmik's first game here. Red being super defensive of cozmik thus makes sense because I'm sure Red wants cozmik's first game with us to be fun.This tbh. While I don't think cozmik is likely to be the sort to bail after if they got lynched day 1 -I have faith in the Standard Of Friend Red brings around these parts- I don't know that there's too much harm in giving a day 1 'we don't know each other and we might have a wildly different playstyle from what we're used to' moment to give time to get used to it.
Perhaps best exemplified by how cozmik seemed surprised we wanted to know their strat; like, duh we want to know at least, like, 80% of your strategy, scum wins when townies plays their cards too close to their chests. It'd be one thing if there were neutral roles in this - in which case, yeah, alright, fair play - but there aren't.
Ah well. Not really a major issue though since there was never enough of a pile to be really worth worrying about getting lynched over anyway.
Who knows getting lynched D1 might make her love Werewolf here more but decide the game is better played by memeing and sowing general chaos and discontent for the lulz because you get murdered if you actually try to play the game around here :hapisip:
Anyways weather new or not weather a friend or not this is first and foremost a game and we should play it without taking any of that into consideration if someone decides not to continue playing cause the game was played and they died even D1 in their first game they shouldn't be playing. Like this is Werewolf and any suspicious activity will be noted.
What’s sus about me exactly? My Red Mones vote? That’s been retracted. How come you don’t jump on the other wagon, when that may actually help you? Why start a new one that no one else is getting on? ???
Vote: Adorable Oracle Hapi
Hi my names Hapi, I kinda have a reputation around here and your new so here's the bullet points list.
- I'm a target D1 here for eternity because people don't like how I play the game
- I do what Iwant with wanton disregard for anyone else or the situation at hand
- I'd argue that if you look around at the games I've played and pay close attention to my posts I'm often right about things I just don't follow the normal werewolf route to get there
So basically the wagon on me exists solely and exclusively because Melahan is memeing and certain people like Doc will just always vote me D1 under the pretense that I'm a danger to town because of my chaotic nature and general do what's best for Hapi no matter what mantra.
Someone asked why I have this reputation. I think it's caused by two things. I voted for the host in Portal WW which started a whole mess of things (I stand by my feelings on that)
And in LotR wolf I was willing to do extremely insane things in an attempt to get usefulness out of my activated ring ability.
But I also made points. That everyone seems to forget. On the 14th before the dominoes began to fall I called out Willie as scum pointed out my feelings that TGN was scum and pointed out concerns on why Doc's style was concerning and I thought he might be scum.
I also was the only one firmly not on the Michi is scum wagon which I was correct about.
The only thing I pushed and stayed on that I was wrong about was my thoughts that Wisch was scum.
So my question is do you really want to vote for me based on a meme and some vague notion of how I don't help town as town? Putting myself first doesn't mean not helping town I have two goals in Werewolf. 1. Win. 2. Cause chaos, but I do this for a reason and...it works. My survival very rarely matters to me. (Actually I like dying early) :-\
As for why I don't vote for the wagon. I don't think there's a valid reason to vote for Michi. I don't like this wagon and I think that it's basis is ridiculous. Michi might be scum by I don't see no lynching D1 as a "tell"
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 02, 2021, 10:43:28 PM
Post by: Gerrick on February 02, 2021, 10:45:42 PM
Wintermoot: Reads very similar to how he played last game when he was town.
Nyght: Seems to genuinely try to get the hang of this as a new player out in the open rather than talking to fellow wolves in private chat were he scum, so I'm town-reading him.
Kane: Seems to be genuinely helpful and trying to find scum.
Wischland: Appears to be acting the same as last game (which involved jumping on bandwagons) when she was town. Would like to hear more from her.
Dawcreek: Has yet to post. This lines up with last game (when he was town) where he ended up backing out of the game because it was overwhelming. I expect the same to happen again, unfortunately.
Minish: Making some really good points on people and sussing them out/asking people for meta.
Vroendal: Going a little hard on Michi considering the meta evidence (metevidence?) isn't as strong as he believes it is, but he is going hard on people like last game when he was town. I don't see the links between players he's talking about, though.
Neutral
Alexander Valentine: Has not posted, but has been online. Again, a new person, so understandable if he's overwhelmed.
Doc: Has made some reasonable points on suspicions. Looking a little more town than last game when he was scum.
cozmik: People are unfortunately fixated on her joke vote on Red (I know how that goes all too well). Don't like the whole "playing my strategy close to the chest" bit, which in general is not good for town, but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt right now since she's new here, and hounding on the new players is no fun.
Melehan: At first went hard on the RP chaos aspect (I assume she's taking a page from Hapi's playstyle after she read last game), which makes me lean scum, but then later she seemed to be really digging and coming to some of the same conclusions I am on people.
Hapi: I find her accusations against cozmik to be weak, but other than that there's not much to go on besides the memes. Hard to read Hapi.
Ruguo: Has spoken quite a bit but has been pretty shallow in their suspects, but I find their recent analysis prompted by Vro to be reasonable.
Red Mones: I don't buy the accusation that he's knowingly protecting cozmik because he's scum -- I'd do the same thing in his place. He has been playing very defensively, though, and I don't like how he doesn't have a vote in right now.
TGN: I don't think anyone can comprehend his actions. He seems to be on a level higher than everyone else, and his chaotic tendencies rival Hapi's.
Ogun: Has only made one post showing worry about the amount of posts to catch up on. Hope he ends up reading through it all and making a vote like he did last game as town. If not, he'll move to the scum section for me.
ENE: Posted a copypasta about why everyone should vote D1 then hasn't voted or even posted beyond that. He did turn out to be town last game while being quiet, though, so that might just be his style.
Lean Scum
Michi: Honestly, I'm surprised my vote turned into a wagon, but I'm sure as hell not gonna change my vote in case he turns out to be scum (someone's gotta die anyway). But his reactions to the wagon are kinda rubbing me the wrong way, luckily. Although his non-vote appears to be NAI in his case, he seems to really want everyone to be more quiet and less aggressive, which is usually better for the wolves.
BSR: Made a post asking about roles, and that's it. Tried to look helpful before falling back into the shadows? He's been online...
Sapphiron: Voted based on "RNG", and then stated we shouldn't take D1 discussion as very important, but that's it. Everything's important this early on, so don't know why he'd downplay it already (understandable later on, though).
Post by: Vroendal on February 02, 2021, 10:56:35 PM
That was a very thorough analysis Gerrick, thank you for that. The only thing I see that I would like to change is that I also don't think my push on Michi for meta was particularly strong, it just was the only real lead I had gotten so far. It was only after pressing him for more that I truly believed he was scum, as his responses, though thorough in some regards, have been suspicious to me on their own and the joint combination is not a good look for his prospects of being townie.
I would also like to hear more from @Wischland at some point.
That is a very good point about Red not having a vote in, will you make a decision soon Red?
Post by: cozmikrae on February 02, 2021, 11:16:57 PM
Hi my names Hapi, I kinda have a reputation around here and your new so here's the bullet points list.
- I'm a target D1 here for eternity because people don't like how I play the game
- I do what Iwant with wanton disregard for anyone else or the situation at hand
- I'd argue that if you look around at the games I've played and pay close attention to my posts I'm often right about things I just don't follow the normal werewolf route to get there
So basically the wagon on me exists solely and exclusively because Melahan is memeing and certain people like Doc will just always vote me D1 under the pretense that I'm a danger to town because of my chaotic nature and general do what's best for Hapi no matter what mantra.
Someone asked why I have this reputation. I think it's caused by two things. I voted for the host in Portal WW which started a whole mess of things (I stand by my feelings on that)
And in LotR wolf I was willing to do extremely insane things in an attempt to get usefulness out of my activated ring ability.
But I also made points. That everyone seems to forget. On the 14th before the dominoes began to fall I called out Willie as scum pointed out my feelings that TGN was scum and pointed out concerns on why Doc's style was concerning and I thought he might be scum.
I also was the only one firmly not on the Michi is scum wagon which I was correct about.
The only thing I pushed and stayed on that I was wrong about was my thoughts that Wisch was scum.
So my question is do you really want to vote for me based on a meme and some vague notion of how I don't help town as town? Putting myself first doesn't mean not helping town I have two goals in Werewolf. 1. Win. 2. Cause chaos, but I do this for a reason and...it works. My survival very rarely matters to me. (Actually I like dying early) :-\
As for why I don't vote for the wagon. I don't think there's a valid reason to vote for Michi. I don't like this wagon and I think that it's basis is ridiculous. Michi might be scum by I don't see no lynching D1 as a "tell"
So you're voting for me for chaotic reasons? You didn't quite answer that question. Actually, if you noticed, I did not vote for you because of Melehan's insistence. I deliberately chose to jump on a different wagon, siding with you actually (both in voting for Red, who you also voted for, and in refusing to sacrifice you to the walls). Personally, I love a game with some chaos, that's not the deciding factor here. This is almost purely retribution. I also believe having a vote, even if potentially wrong, is better than having no vote.
I'm also not voting for Michi because I'm not so convinced by all the meta reasoning, and I would need to get a better feel for everyone's play style before I can just hop on "past game behavior" bandwagons. Seems to me though, you voting for Michi might keep you in the game a little longer. Voting for me doesn't seem to be what's actually best for Hapi. But I guess since you said you like to die...
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 02, 2021, 11:27:55 PM
Hi my names Hapi, I kinda have a reputation around here and your new so here's the bullet points list.
- I'm a target D1 here for eternity because people don't like how I play the game
- I do what Iwant with wanton disregard for anyone else or the situation at hand
- I'd argue that if you look around at the games I've played and pay close attention to my posts I'm often right about things I just don't follow the normal werewolf route to get there
So basically the wagon on me exists solely and exclusively because Melahan is memeing and certain people like Doc will just always vote me D1 under the pretense that I'm a danger to town because of my chaotic nature and general do what's best for Hapi no matter what mantra.
Someone asked why I have this reputation. I think it's caused by two things. I voted for the host in Portal WW which started a whole mess of things (I stand by my feelings on that)
And in LotR wolf I was willing to do extremely insane things in an attempt to get usefulness out of my activated ring ability.
But I also made points. That everyone seems to forget. On the 14th before the dominoes began to fall I called out Willie as scum pointed out my feelings that TGN was scum and pointed out concerns on why Doc's style was concerning and I thought he might be scum.
I also was the only one firmly not on the Michi is scum wagon which I was correct about.
The only thing I pushed and stayed on that I was wrong about was my thoughts that Wisch was scum.
So my question is do you really want to vote for me based on a meme and some vague notion of how I don't help town as town? Putting myself first doesn't mean not helping town I have two goals in Werewolf. 1. Win. 2. Cause chaos, but I do this for a reason and...it works. My survival very rarely matters to me. (Actually I like dying early) :-\
As for why I don't vote for the wagon. I don't think there's a valid reason to vote for Michi. I don't like this wagon and I think that it's basis is ridiculous. Michi might be scum by I don't see no lynching D1 as a "tell"
So you're voting for me for chaotic reasons? You didn't quite answer that question. Actually, if you noticed, I did not vote for you because of Melehan's insistence. I deliberately chose to jump on a different wagon, siding with you actually (both in voting for Red, who you also voted for, and in refusing to sacrifice you to the walls). Personally, I love a game with some chaos, that's not the deciding factor here. This is almost purely retribution. I also believe having a vote, even if potentially wrong, is better than having no vote.
I'm also not voting for Michi because I'm not so convinced by all the meta reasoning, and I would need to get a better feel for everyone's play style before I can just hop on "past game behavior" bandwagons. Seems to me though, you voting for Michi might keep you in the game a little longer. Voting for me doesn't seem to be what's actually best for Hapi. But I guess since you said you like to die...
Best for Hapi doesn't always mean keeping myself alive. Best for Hapi means two things
First and most important ability to use the tools I have at my disposal for fun.
Second to that winning the game.
I voted for Red fur chaos. I voted for you because you hopped on that so fast and with so little reasoning. Now your new here but your not new to the game by your own admission so *shrugs* not like your in danger nobody is ever gonna view for the new person here until they have had every opportunity to murder most of town just ask TGN how easy it is to get away with that.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 02, 2021, 11:38:44 PM
Hi my names Hapi, I kinda have a reputation around here and your new so here's the bullet points list.
- I'm a target D1 here for eternity because people don't like how I play the game
- I do what Iwant with wanton disregard for anyone else or the situation at hand
- I'd argue that if you look around at the games I've played and pay close attention to my posts I'm often right about things I just don't follow the normal werewolf route to get there
So basically the wagon on me exists solely and exclusively because Melahan is memeing and certain people like Doc will just always vote me D1 under the pretense that I'm a danger to town because of my chaotic nature and general do what's best for Hapi no matter what mantra.
Someone asked why I have this reputation. I think it's caused by two things. I voted for the host in Portal WW which started a whole mess of things (I stand by my feelings on that)
And in LotR wolf I was willing to do extremely insane things in an attempt to get usefulness out of my activated ring ability.
But I also made points. That everyone seems to forget. On the 14th before the dominoes began to fall I called out Willie as scum pointed out my feelings that TGN was scum and pointed out concerns on why Doc's style was concerning and I thought he might be scum.
I also was the only one firmly not on the Michi is scum wagon which I was correct about.
The only thing I pushed and stayed on that I was wrong about was my thoughts that Wisch was scum.
So my question is do you really want to vote for me based on a meme and some vague notion of how I don't help town as town? Putting myself first doesn't mean not helping town I have two goals in Werewolf. 1. Win. 2. Cause chaos, but I do this for a reason and...it works. My survival very rarely matters to me. (Actually I like dying early) :-\
As for why I don't vote for the wagon. I don't think there's a valid reason to vote for Michi. I don't like this wagon and I think that it's basis is ridiculous. Michi might be scum by I don't see no lynching D1 as a "tell"
So you're voting for me for chaotic reasons? You didn't quite answer that question. Actually, if you noticed, I did not vote for you because of Melehan's insistence. I deliberately chose to jump on a different wagon, siding with you actually (both in voting for Red, who you also voted for, and in refusing to sacrifice you to the walls). Personally, I love a game with some chaos, that's not the deciding factor here. This is almost purely retribution. I also believe having a vote, even if potentially wrong, is better than having no vote.
I'm also not voting for Michi because I'm not so convinced by all the meta reasoning, and I would need to get a better feel for everyone's play style before I can just hop on "past game behavior" bandwagons. Seems to me though, you voting for Michi might keep you in the game a little longer. Voting for me doesn't seem to be what's actually best for Hapi. But I guess since you said you like to die...
Best for Hapi doesn't always mean keeping myself alive. Best for Hapi means two things
First and most important ability to use the tools I have at my disposal for fun.
Second to that winning the game.
I voted for Red fur chaos. I voted for you because you hopped on that so fast and with so little reasoning. Now your new here but your not new to the game by your own admission so *shrugs* not like your in danger nobody is ever gonna view for the new person here until they have had every opportunity to murder most of town just ask TGN how easy it is to get away with that.
Lol, I kinda want to read this TGN game now. But don't worry, I'm not going to be murdering anyone.
Post by: TGN on February 02, 2021, 11:41:36 PM
last game Doc kept me alive because he kept saying I was new.
If I had listened I would have won, he said to say unfair to make you think I was young, but I wouldn't do that, so with me messing up and you meddling kids getting involved, I lost the last werewolf game, but I got really far with the I'm new excuse.
idk if you can see this but read The Wintreath Monthly and Upvote it pls, I worked really hard on it UwU
Post by: TGN on February 02, 2021, 11:42:33 PM
don't worry, I have the linkHi my names Hapi, I kinda have a reputation around here and your new so here's the bullet points list.
- I'm a target D1 here for eternity because people don't like how I play the game
- I do what Iwant with wanton disregard for anyone else or the situation at hand
- I'd argue that if you look around at the games I've played and pay close attention to my posts I'm often right about things I just don't follow the normal werewolf route to get there
So basically the wagon on me exists solely and exclusively because Melahan is memeing and certain people like Doc will just always vote me D1 under the pretense that I'm a danger to town because of my chaotic nature and general do what's best for Hapi no matter what mantra.
Someone asked why I have this reputation. I think it's caused by two things. I voted for the host in Portal WW which started a whole mess of things (I stand by my feelings on that)
And in LotR wolf I was willing to do extremely insane things in an attempt to get usefulness out of my activated ring ability.
But I also made points. That everyone seems to forget. On the 14th before the dominoes began to fall I called out Willie as scum pointed out my feelings that TGN was scum and pointed out concerns on why Doc's style was concerning and I thought he might be scum.
I also was the only one firmly not on the Michi is scum wagon which I was correct about.
The only thing I pushed and stayed on that I was wrong about was my thoughts that Wisch was scum.
So my question is do you really want to vote for me based on a meme and some vague notion of how I don't help town as town? Putting myself first doesn't mean not helping town I have two goals in Werewolf. 1. Win. 2. Cause chaos, but I do this for a reason and...it works. My survival very rarely matters to me. (Actually I like dying early) :-\
As for why I don't vote for the wagon. I don't think there's a valid reason to vote for Michi. I don't like this wagon and I think that it's basis is ridiculous. Michi might be scum by I don't see no lynching D1 as a "tell"
So you're voting for me for chaotic reasons? You didn't quite answer that question. Actually, if you noticed, I did not vote for you because of Melehan's insistence. I deliberately chose to jump on a different wagon, siding with you actually (both in voting for Red, who you also voted for, and in refusing to sacrifice you to the walls). Personally, I love a game with some chaos, that's not the deciding factor here. This is almost purely retribution. I also believe having a vote, even if potentially wrong, is better than having no vote.
I'm also not voting for Michi because I'm not so convinced by all the meta reasoning, and I would need to get a better feel for everyone's play style before I can just hop on "past game behavior" bandwagons. Seems to me though, you voting for Michi might keep you in the game a little longer. Voting for me doesn't seem to be what's actually best for Hapi. But I guess since you said you like to die...
Best for Hapi doesn't always mean keeping myself alive. Best for Hapi means two things
First and most important ability to use the tools I have at my disposal for fun.
Second to that winning the game.
I voted for Red fur chaos. I voted for you because you hopped on that so fast and with so little reasoning. Now your new here but your not new to the game by your own admission so *shrugs* not like your in danger nobody is ever gonna view for the new person here until they have had every opportunity to murder most of town just ask TGN how easy it is to get away with that.
Lol, I kinda want to read this TGN game now. But don't worry, I'm not going to be murdering anyone.
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0
Post by: cozmikrae on February 02, 2021, 11:54:49 PM
don't worry, I have the linkHi my names Hapi, I kinda have a reputation around here and your new so here's the bullet points list.
- I'm a target D1 here for eternity because people don't like how I play the game
- I do what Iwant with wanton disregard for anyone else or the situation at hand
- I'd argue that if you look around at the games I've played and pay close attention to my posts I'm often right about things I just don't follow the normal werewolf route to get there
So basically the wagon on me exists solely and exclusively because Melahan is memeing and certain people like Doc will just always vote me D1 under the pretense that I'm a danger to town because of my chaotic nature and general do what's best for Hapi no matter what mantra.
Someone asked why I have this reputation. I think it's caused by two things. I voted for the host in Portal WW which started a whole mess of things (I stand by my feelings on that)
And in LotR wolf I was willing to do extremely insane things in an attempt to get usefulness out of my activated ring ability.
But I also made points. That everyone seems to forget. On the 14th before the dominoes began to fall I called out Willie as scum pointed out my feelings that TGN was scum and pointed out concerns on why Doc's style was concerning and I thought he might be scum.
I also was the only one firmly not on the Michi is scum wagon which I was correct about.
The only thing I pushed and stayed on that I was wrong about was my thoughts that Wisch was scum.
So my question is do you really want to vote for me based on a meme and some vague notion of how I don't help town as town? Putting myself first doesn't mean not helping town I have two goals in Werewolf. 1. Win. 2. Cause chaos, but I do this for a reason and...it works. My survival very rarely matters to me. (Actually I like dying early) :-\
As for why I don't vote for the wagon. I don't think there's a valid reason to vote for Michi. I don't like this wagon and I think that it's basis is ridiculous. Michi might be scum by I don't see no lynching D1 as a "tell"
So you're voting for me for chaotic reasons? You didn't quite answer that question. Actually, if you noticed, I did not vote for you because of Melehan's insistence. I deliberately chose to jump on a different wagon, siding with you actually (both in voting for Red, who you also voted for, and in refusing to sacrifice you to the walls). Personally, I love a game with some chaos, that's not the deciding factor here. This is almost purely retribution. I also believe having a vote, even if potentially wrong, is better than having no vote.
I'm also not voting for Michi because I'm not so convinced by all the meta reasoning, and I would need to get a better feel for everyone's play style before I can just hop on "past game behavior" bandwagons. Seems to me though, you voting for Michi might keep you in the game a little longer. Voting for me doesn't seem to be what's actually best for Hapi. But I guess since you said you like to die...
Best for Hapi doesn't always mean keeping myself alive. Best for Hapi means two things
First and most important ability to use the tools I have at my disposal for fun.
Second to that winning the game.
I voted for Red fur chaos. I voted for you because you hopped on that so fast and with so little reasoning. Now your new here but your not new to the game by your own admission so *shrugs* not like your in danger nobody is ever gonna view for the new person here until they have had every opportunity to murder most of town just ask TGN how easy it is to get away with that.
Lol, I kinda want to read this TGN game now. But don't worry, I'm not going to be murdering anyone.
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0
Ooof.... 80 pages.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 03, 2021, 12:07:25 AM
The one thing keeping Red off my scumspects list is the fact that Red and cozmik are apparently IRL friends, and that this is cozmik's first game here. Red being super defensive of cozmik thus makes sense because I'm sure Red wants cozmik's first game with us to be fun.This tbh. While I don't think cozmik is likely to be the sort to bail after if they got lynched day 1 -I have faith in the Standard Of Friend Red brings around these parts- I don't know that there's too much harm in giving a day 1 'we don't know each other and we might have a wildly different playstyle from what we're used to' moment to give time to get used to it.
Perhaps best exemplified by how cozmik seemed surprised we wanted to know their strat; like, duh we want to know at least, like, 80% of your strategy, scum wins when townies plays their cards too close to their chests. It'd be one thing if there were neutral roles in this - in which case, yeah, alright, fair play - but there aren't.
Ah well. Not really a major issue though since there was never enough of a pile to be really worth worrying about getting lynched over anyway.
Who knows getting lynched D1 might make her love Werewolf here more but decide the game is better played by memeing and sowing general chaos and discontent for the lulz because you get murdered if you actually try to play the game around here :hapisip:
Anyways weather new or not weather a friend or not this is first and foremost a game and we should play it without taking any of that into consideration if someone decides not to continue playing cause the game was played and they died even D1 in their first game they shouldn't be playing. Like this is Werewolf and any suspicious activity will be noted.
What’s sus about me exactly? My Red Mones vote? That’s been retracted. How come you don’t jump on the other wagon, when that may actually help you? Why start a new one that no one else is getting on? ???
Vote: Adorable Oracle Hapi
Hi my names Hapi, I kinda have a reputation around here and your new so here's the bullet points list.
- I'm a target D1 here for eternity because people don't like how I play the game
- I do what Iwant with wanton disregard for anyone else or the situation at hand
- I'd argue that if you look around at the games I've played and pay close attention to my posts I'm often right about things I just don't follow the normal werewolf route to get there
So basically the wagon on me exists solely and exclusively because Melahan is memeing and certain people like Doc will just always vote me D1 under the pretense that I'm a danger to town because of my chaotic nature and general do what's best for Hapi no matter what mantra.
Someone asked why I have this reputation. I think it's caused by two things. I voted for the host in Portal WW which started a whole mess of things (I stand by my feelings on that)
And in LotR wolf I was willing to do extremely insane things in an attempt to get usefulness out of my activated ring ability.
But I also made points. That everyone seems to forget. On the 14th before the dominoes began to fall I called out Willie as scum pointed out my feelings that TGN was scum and pointed out concerns on why Doc's style was concerning and I thought he might be scum.
I also was the only one firmly not on the Michi is scum wagon which I was correct about.
The only thing I pushed and stayed on that I was wrong about was my thoughts that Wisch was scum.
So my question is do you really want to vote for me based on a meme and some vague notion of how I don't help town as town? Putting myself first doesn't mean not helping town I have two goals in Werewolf. 1. Win. 2. Cause chaos, but I do this for a reason and...it works. My survival very rarely matters to me. (Actually I like dying early) :-\
As for why I don't vote for the wagon. I don't think there's a valid reason to vote for Michi. I don't like this wagon and I think that it's basis is ridiculous. Michi might be scum by I don't see no lynching D1 as a "tell"
Wait, I'm kinda confused. If you're pro Hapi then wouldn't you care about being lynched day 1? I'm just not seeing a connect between being pro Hapi(doing what's best for you) and being willing and even enjoying dying early. That's kinda contradictory. Or really contradictory actually.
Like, if you're happy to die early because it helps us that's one thing and I could see that but it doesn't really jive with the claim that you play with a "me first" mind set. Or is that just to cause more confusion and chaos?
Post by: Melehan on February 03, 2021, 12:14:29 AM
I am apparently Queen of the Stealth Meme...
Post by: Red Mones on February 03, 2021, 12:17:15 AM
That is a very good point about Red not having a vote in, will you make a decision soon Red?Eh, I'm not really on board with any of the wagons right now, and with all the attention on me, I didn't really want to rock the boat either by jumping on a wagon to starting a new one. Either one might fuck me over. I may end up jumping on the Michi wagon though, but we'll see. I still have some time.
I really want hear from @Sapphiron for sure. They've been active on discord recently, so I can't imagine they're totally unaware of what's going in this game right now.
Post by: Red Mones on February 03, 2021, 12:17:47 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 03, 2021, 12:18:47 AM
Post by: Doc on February 03, 2021, 12:53:32 AM
On a side note, apparently no one noticed me meme in any of the past games I've played here, even though I've memed D1 (and often beyond) in every themed game I've played so far.
I am apparently Queen of the Stealth Meme...
I'm sticking with the Hapi vote and doubling down on the pure wagonomics reasoning for it (since the Michi pile seems to be growing ever-larger as we go on with only hers as the closest competitor...and even that's quite distant), but I have to say, those were actually some excellent points made. If I didn't think flipping to a vanity wagon or piling aboard the Michi train was an actively bad move, I'd remove my vote from you just on that basis. But...well...both of those things.
Post by: Vroendal on February 03, 2021, 01:11:26 AM
As proof that I will listen to you with an open-mind:
Unvote - Michi
If you do not provide anything or your defense/attack is not sufficiently convincing, I will lynch you for the aforementioned dislike of various points in your defense coupled with the initial meta read and your total lack of engagement or pro-town behavior such as scum-hunting or questioning.
Post by: Michi on February 03, 2021, 01:26:51 AM
Personally, I hate meta reads. It puts people in a damned if I do/damned if I dont situation because if I choose to vote for someone like I did with voting Katie in one game and step away due to being busy, I look suspicious because of some game somewhere where I did differently. If I vote and defend it, I look equally suspicious because of some game somewhere where I did differently. If I dont vote and duck out, or dont vote and defend my decision...well you get the jist. There's always some game somewhere that gets used against me because I happened to play differently in it, even if I play the same as I've done in other games.
So do what you will. In the long run anything I say wont really matter because if thr past games are any indicatioj, they never do. I could defend until I'm blue in the face, but it's either never believed or warped in some way to where regardless of what I say, I'll still get lynched.
Post by: Vroendal on February 03, 2021, 01:49:20 AM
The point was to ask you to offer something up to analyze and re-evaluate so that the information could help form a new opinion or perspective if need be, you're just refusing to allow that.
You're clearly at least active a little right now and there's still time before EoD, will you not even try? There's a difference between voting and lynching. You were only being voted at that point, with plenty of time to try something else.
Meta reads are certainly not indicative of alignment completely of their own, and I understand that. I voted you to apply pressure, which to your credit you responded to. I did not feel that elements of your response were relevant and that certain other elements made you more suspicious, so now here we are. I'm not lynching you for just meta, your damned if you do/don't example isn't the issue here, it's that by itself without context from other games there are parts of your defense which do not speak to what I feel is a pro-town coupled with a tendency I have seen in the recent past repeating itself.
Post by: Sapphiron on February 03, 2021, 02:07:31 AM
Also, I express my discomfort on the use of meta reading to lynch people on the first day phase, because it's pretty much making a mountain of a molehill, and it usually leads nowhere. I am guilty of that sometimes but there it is. Meta is a big part of the game, and I have used it sometimes to support gut feelings, but on the first day though.
Post by: Melehan on February 03, 2021, 02:22:59 AM
Well, meta and reaction tests.
Post by: Vroendal on February 03, 2021, 03:18:20 AM
Vote - Michi
Post by: Red Mones on February 03, 2021, 03:20:15 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 03, 2021, 03:38:12 AM
To be honest I haven't been paying attention. Since it was pretty set that I was going to die off despite my usual defending (which never seems to help anyways since I can't seem to live longer than D2 if the recent games are any indication), I pretty much mostly stepped away from the game.
Personally, I hate meta reads. It puts people in a damned if I do/damned if I dont situation because if I choose to vote for someone like I did with voting Katie in one game and step away due to being busy, I look suspicious because of some game somewhere where I did differently. If I vote and defend it, I look equally suspicious because of some game somewhere where I did differently. If I dont vote and duck out, or dont vote and defend my decision...well you get the jist. There's always some game somewhere that gets used against me because I happened to play differently in it, even if I play the same as I've done in other games.
So do what you will. In the long run anything I say wont really matter because if thr past games are any indicatioj, they never do. I could defend until I'm blue in the face, but it's either never believed or warped in some way to where regardless of what I say, I'll still get lynched.
This just furthers my mindset. If Michi flips town I'm hard voting Vro forever til they die, because meta this reads to me like Michi from LotR wolf and not meets this reads too me like Michi right this was gonna be different and now it's the same meta bs getting some inno town lynched D1. Nobody is gonna listen to me but I think this wagon needs to be rethought.
If Michi is wolf I think we got lucky honestly.
The one thing keeping Red off my scumspects list is the fact that Red and cozmik are apparently IRL friends, and that this is cozmik's first game here. Red being super defensive of cozmik thus makes sense because I'm sure Red wants cozmik's first game with us to be fun.This tbh. While I don't think cozmik is likely to be the sort to bail after if they got lynched day 1 -I have faith in the Standard Of Friend Red brings around these parts- I don't know that there's too much harm in giving a day 1 'we don't know each other and we might have a wildly different playstyle from what we're used to' moment to give time to get used to it.
Perhaps best exemplified by how cozmik seemed surprised we wanted to know their strat; like, duh we want to know at least, like, 80% of your strategy, scum wins when townies plays their cards too close to their chests. It'd be one thing if there were neutral roles in this - in which case, yeah, alright, fair play - but there aren't.
Ah well. Not really a major issue though since there was never enough of a pile to be really worth worrying about getting lynched over anyway.
Who knows getting lynched D1 might make her love Werewolf here more but decide the game is better played by memeing and sowing general chaos and discontent for the lulz because you get murdered if you actually try to play the game around here :hapisip:
Anyways weather new or not weather a friend or not this is first and foremost a game and we should play it without taking any of that into consideration if someone decides not to continue playing cause the game was played and they died even D1 in their first game they shouldn't be playing. Like this is Werewolf and any suspicious activity will be noted.
What’s sus about me exactly? My Red Mones vote? That’s been retracted. How come you don’t jump on the other wagon, when that may actually help you? Why start a new one that no one else is getting on? ???
Vote: Adorable Oracle Hapi
Hi my names Hapi, I kinda have a reputation around here and your new so here's the bullet points list.
- I'm a target D1 here for eternity because people don't like how I play the game
- I do what Iwant with wanton disregard for anyone else or the situation at hand
- I'd argue that if you look around at the games I've played and pay close attention to my posts I'm often right about things I just don't follow the normal werewolf route to get there
So basically the wagon on me exists solely and exclusively because Melahan is memeing and certain people like Doc will just always vote me D1 under the pretense that I'm a danger to town because of my chaotic nature and general do what's best for Hapi no matter what mantra.
Someone asked why I have this reputation. I think it's caused by two things. I voted for the host in Portal WW which started a whole mess of things (I stand by my feelings on that)
And in LotR wolf I was willing to do extremely insane things in an attempt to get usefulness out of my activated ring ability.
But I also made points. That everyone seems to forget. On the 14th before the dominoes began to fall I called out Willie as scum pointed out my feelings that TGN was scum and pointed out concerns on why Doc's style was concerning and I thought he might be scum.
I also was the only one firmly not on the Michi is scum wagon which I was correct about.
The only thing I pushed and stayed on that I was wrong about was my thoughts that Wisch was scum.
So my question is do you really want to vote for me based on a meme and some vague notion of how I don't help town as town? Putting myself first doesn't mean not helping town I have two goals in Werewolf. 1. Win. 2. Cause chaos, but I do this for a reason and...it works. My survival very rarely matters to me. (Actually I like dying early) :-\
As for why I don't vote for the wagon. I don't think there's a valid reason to vote for Michi. I don't like this wagon and I think that it's basis is ridiculous. Michi might be scum by I don't see no lynching D1 as a "tell"
Wait, I'm kinda confused. If you're pro Hapi then wouldn't you care about being lynched day 1? I'm just not seeing a connect between being pro Hapi(doing what's best for you) and being willing and even enjoying dying early. That's kinda contradictory. Or really contradictory actually.
Like, if you're happy to die early because it helps us that's one thing and I could see that but it doesn't really jive with the claim that you play with a "me first" mind set. Or is that just to cause more confusion and chaos?
I don't mind dying early in certain situations... I'm hoping somebody catches what I've been hinting at but I doubt it but should you pick it up you can figure out what I am probably.
I don't really like this meta read comb thru 10000 pages of old werewolf to figure out one little difference that clearly makes you a wolf style of game. You know what that leads to almost everytime. A lynched townie. And trying to infer Intel from a wagon everyone voted on is pulling needles from a haystack. And frankly I don't get it because if I knew this was how you made your decisions I'd just...flip styles every game so I'm neigh unreadable or play EXACTLY the same style every single game.
How many wrong reads did we push from meta reads before we found a wolf that led to another wolf without a meta read at all? I think I learn more from being a chaotic mass of Hapi than you learn from your meta reads.
Anyways.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 03, 2021, 03:44:29 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 03, 2021, 03:48:06 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 03, 2021, 03:52:03 AM
I'd prefer we lynch nobody based on nothing but that's never gonna happen because this vague idea of Intel that I've never seen lead to any actual correct deductions...
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 03, 2021, 03:52:59 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 03, 2021, 03:54:50 AM
I'm with you though, not really feeling the Michi lynch.
Post by: Vroendal on February 03, 2021, 04:05:53 AM
I think of Michi is a townie my death would be preferable and I think Michi being read scum for... like nothing is dumb.I don't think I'm lynching him over nothing, I'm lynching him for a combination of reasons including telling a Seer who to investigate and in general what I feel is a very discouraging view of questions and activity, and added with a recent pattern I've personally observed, in what way is that "nothing?" I've given him chances to attempt to convince me and he's chosen not to take them. From my point of view I don't see anyone better to lynch right now.
I'd prefer we lynch nobody based on nothing but that's never gonna happen because this vague idea of Intel that I've never seen lead to any actual correct deductions...
Please remember last game Vro was on and on and on about Michi "acting scum" and was Michi scum?Actually, at the beginning I saved him from being ynched because I felt he was town, it was only after he attacked me that I considered that he wasn't. I turned out both correct and incorrect at the same time for both counts. If anything, you should remember the entirety of last game when you were sussing me and I wasn't a wolf. Your logic is inconsistent.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 03, 2021, 04:12:52 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 03, 2021, 04:20:14 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on February 03, 2021, 04:27:10 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 03, 2021, 04:58:11 AM
Unvote: Michi
Post by: Laurentus on February 03, 2021, 05:07:24 AM
Ruguo - 1 (Red Mones)
Red Mones - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
And a coinflip result that I posted on Discord, Hapi is our lynch.
Hapi was just a normal Scout, and thus a Town.
With that result, the phase ends and night phase begins. Please send me your actions, power roles.
I will update this with flavour later.
Post by: Laurentus on February 03, 2021, 05:57:40 AM
Post by: Laurentus on February 03, 2021, 05:31:49 PM
On a bright and clear day, the same as any other you've known in your life, you are disturbed from your rest by a massive explosion from the direction of the wall that has kept you and all of humanity safe in your hometown of Shiganshina. After the initial shock wears off, you follow the crowd of people gathering to look at up at the wall. What you see next will forever send chills down your spine, as a massive red figure looms over the 50-meter wall and inspects the growing crowd.
The Titan without any skin, a literal god of destruction, pulls back its leg, and a few seconds later delivers a kick that sends the reinforced gate flying into a house a hundred meters away, and as you stand there, frozen from terror, a stream of titans come pouring through the walls.
You are finally moved to action when you see a brave scout soar into the sky in their iconic 3D maneuver gear, their swords at their sides ready to face the Titan invasion that has just begun. The scout cuts down 2 Titans with incredible skill and grace, but out of nowhere, a second explosion rocks your world, and a Titan with thick layers of armour comes charging through the gate, at least 15 meters tall. The scout gets a grim look on her face, and shouts orders to 3 new scouts who have joined her side. They disburse in different directions, and one of them scoops you out of the danger zone as they do so.
"Who's manning the cannons!?" "No one, captain, we hardly ever use them--" "How did it sneak past our outposts?" "Where did it come from!?" These are all the shouts you hear as you zip past the soldiers and civilians in the arms of your rescuer. You finally reach a street far to the back of Shiganshina, and your rescuer puts you down. "You listen, and listen well. Shiganshina is done for. You need to get to a ferry headed up the river to wall Rose, and you need to make sure you report clearly on what you saw." You hear the words, but make no sense of them. "But sir," you start, "I'm just a recruit! What would my report matter?" The wizened scout pulls something out of his pocket: a black key with the letters "GJ" carved into it. "All the scouts and guards are going to die here, today, and as our last recruit, we entrust this burden to you. You must find Grisha Jaeger in the Interior, and you must deliver this key to him. This is humanity's only remaining hope."
With that, the old scout soars into the sky once more, and you begin running for the ferry. When you're twenty meters away, you are stopped in your tracks by a 10-meter Titan coming around a corner. It notices you and begins its awkward run towards you. You realise immediately that there is no escape, and try to duck into an alleyway you know has a dead end. The Titan follows you, and as you reach the dead end, you turn around and grimly say your final prayers as it reaches down for you. You close your eyes, awaiting the hands that would envelop you and deliver you to your gruesome end. This never happens.
You hear the tell-tale sound of 3D maneuver gear gas being expelled, and when you open your eyes, the same scout woman who charged into the Titans so valiantly at the wall is occupying the Titan's attention as she swirls around its head. She can't get a clear strike at the monster's nape, but you realise it is your best chance to escape. As you slip under the Titan's legs and run towards the street again, you hear a blood-curdling scream, and turning around, get greeted with the sight of the valiant scout caught in the Titan's hand. Unceremoniously, it brings the scout up to its mouth and bites down on her leg, ripping it off. Even as the scout starts bleeding out and losing colour from her face, she gives you a final determined look and waves you in the direction of the ferry. You take her meaning, and with some regret, turn your back on the bravest person you've ever known. Humanity is the lesser for scout Hapi's impending death, and you hope her end comes swiftly.
When you reach the ferry, it is just about to set sail, and all around you are the frightened faces of women and children. You board knowing deep in your soul that events have been set in motion that will lead to the fall of not only Shiganshina, but wall Maria as a whole.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 03, 2021, 07:46:50 PM
If you haven't already, why don't you check out our new #werewolf channel on our Discord chat server? It's a great place to talk about all things Werewolf, and as a member of the channel you'll be pinged with any Werewolf news and game announcements. :)
If you haven't already joined our Discord, the server invite is here (https://discord.gg/V77hpFE). From there, go to the #roles channel (in the Information category), and react to the message with the Werewolf icon (the ones that looks like a wolf, surprisingly enough). You'll then have access to the #werewolf channel (in the Game Chat category) and be able to live, laugh, and love everything Werewolf even when we're between games. We just ask that you be careful when discussing the current game and not reveal or post anything that may alter the game here on the forums.
Post by: Laurentus on February 04, 2021, 04:30:52 AM
As you lay your head down on the creaky floor of the ferry, exhausted from the day's events, you hear a disturbance on the deck above. Your instincts tell you something is very wrong as you get up to investigate. As quietly as you can, you step over the other sleeping bodies around you and make your way to the nearest staircase.
When you get to the top, you conceal yourself behind the wooden wall and inspect the scene before you. You are startled to find that the guard standing watch is nowhere to be found, and a figure in all-black moves towards the staircase closest to her, her bloody knife at the ready.
She is unaware of your presence, it seems, so you start to sneak away, and hope to the Walls that you can find a weapon of some sort.
Seemingly out of nowhere, a figure materialises with what must be ODM gear, although you have never seen anyone move that fast. The woman in black turns around and prepares to engage her enemy, but before she can even pull her hand back for the strike, the scout delivers a swift strike to her arm, and as she shrieks in pain, her severed arm falls to the deck with a sickening crunch.
The scout makes no move to land the final blow, so you assume he wishes to apprehend the assassin. The assassin moves slowly towards the side of the ferry, with the scout keeping pace, sword drawn warningly. "Who sent you? How did you learn about our mission?" Silence. "Look at where you are. Whoever you're working for has abandoned you. Speak now, or suffer unimaginable pain when we torture you."
The assassin's face is covered, but you hear her give a brief snort as she reaches the edge of the ferry. "You truly have no idea what's going on, do you?" she chuckles, and before the scout can respond, she leaps off the ferry. You assume she is trying to commit suicide to avoid being captured, but an instant later, a blinding, yellow flash of lighting obscures your vision, and when you can finally see again, the assassin is gone, replaced by a 15-meter Titan with female features. You stare in disbelief, not just because the woman seems to have transformed into a Titan, but also because she turns around and starts racing towards the nearby forest with incredible speed you did not think would be possible for such a large creature.
At that very moment, the scout prepares to charge after her, but a tall figure ascends from the staircase behind you, and surveys the situation with incredible speed. "Captain Levi, stand down. We don't know enough of our enemy. Giving chase would be suicide." The scout turns towards the new figure, incredulous: "You want me to let a woman who can transform into a Titan escape, Erwin?!" Almost bored, the commander answers back definitively: "Yes."
You suddenly realise who you're looking at. This must be the famed Scout Captain Levi, and his commander, Erwin Smith. Erwin continues as if nothing at all happened. "I investigated the suspect on the ferry. Their story checks out. Let's get out of here." You realise you're about to miss your one shot to get out of here alive, so you step out of the shadows and rush forward. "Wait, please! You cannot leave me here. I was instructed to deliver something of great importance to the Interior, and to Grisha Jaeger." Erwin fixes his gaze on you, and makes a decision in a flash. "Take them with us, Levi. This fits in with what we've learned."
Alright, starting the phase back up.
New rule:
8. When voting, you have to vote on a new line, and it has to look like this example:
Vote: Laurentus
Code: [Select]
[b][u]Vote:[/u][/b]Also, no one died during the night. This phase will last for 48 hours after this post. Happy murdering.
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on February 04, 2021, 04:33:24 AM
I haven't been active and I apologize, but reading the posts, especially Vro's, I don't think it may be suspicious, but its interesting that Michi's lynch was basically locked and loaded until Vro changed it at the last minute...
Post by: Ruguo on February 04, 2021, 04:34:21 AM
The good news is, no one died. The bad news is, no one died.
I would normally blame the Valerians for this, but... you know what, that's usually a safe bet. I blame the Valerians.
So where do we want to go from here?
Post by: Red Mones on February 04, 2021, 04:40:09 AM
In all seriousness, we may wanna push on the people who voted for Hapi. @NyghtOwl (who is town as far as I'm concerned), @Melehan, @Doc, and @cozmikrae.
Post by: Ruguo on February 04, 2021, 04:42:38 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 04, 2021, 04:44:23 AM
I mean I legitimately thought the same thing + The Curse TM, but that's all circumstantial. :P I will be keeping him in mind though for sure.I see two Docs in Red's post, Doc must be the wolf
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 04, 2021, 04:45:48 AM
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 04, 2021, 04:47:33 AM
Post by: Ruguo on February 04, 2021, 04:50:19 AM
Answer: I'm clearly inept at remember who all is playing. Carry on.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 04, 2021, 04:55:47 AM
Adding underlines to the mix are we now?
The good news is, no one died. The bad news is, no one died.
I would normally blame the Valerians for this, but... you know what, that's usually a safe bet. I blame the Valerians.
So where do we want to go from here?
What does that mean? Blaming the Valerians?
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 04, 2021, 04:59:49 AM
Post by: Ruguo on February 04, 2021, 05:00:04 AM
Adding underlines to the mix are we now?
The good news is, no one died. The bad news is, no one died.
I would normally blame the Valerians for this, but... you know what, that's usually a safe bet. I blame the Valerians.
So where do we want to go from here?
What does that mean? Blaming the Valerians?
So there's a house system we've got going on as part of the community lore, and house Valaria is the largest one. Historically it's housed some of our best werewolf players, and they're famous for starting house drama in werewolf threads.
You may know such players as BraveSirRobin, Hapi, And Michi in this game.
For more information on houses, should it interest anyone, please look here (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=3251.0)
Post by: Sapphiron on February 04, 2021, 05:00:51 AM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 04, 2021, 05:04:20 AM
Post by: Ruguo on February 04, 2021, 05:06:56 AM
It’s a house full of scheming menaces who like to devour one another ... oh wait I am in it :o
Eek, the OP is out of date again. TIme to go fix that.
Post by: Red Mones on February 04, 2021, 05:07:31 AM
Can ya add the relationships and names of House Burdock please? :PIt’s a house full of scheming menaces who like to devour one another ... oh wait I am in it :o
Eek, the OP is out of date again. TIme to go fix that.
Post by: Ruguo on February 04, 2021, 05:17:07 AM
This is the werewolf thread, not the house thread. Please refile your complain through the correct channel.Can ya add the relationships and names of House Burdock please? :PIt’s a house full of scheming menaces who like to devour one another ... oh wait I am in it :o
Eek, the OP is out of date again. TIme to go fix that.
Post by: Red Mones on February 04, 2021, 05:18:15 AM
Post by: Ruguo on February 04, 2021, 05:19:28 AM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 04, 2021, 05:43:01 AM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 04, 2021, 05:47:04 AM
Post by: Wischland on February 04, 2021, 06:41:14 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 04, 2021, 06:46:42 AM
Post by: Wischland on February 04, 2021, 06:50:16 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 04, 2021, 06:52:29 AM
Sorry what? I might just be reading your sentence wrong cause it's late but it is not making sense to me. Could you phrase your question differently?Is this the kind of push that you would make as town? I understand this is a vague question, I'm reaction probing, I have no problem telling you that.
Post by: Wischland on February 04, 2021, 07:20:37 AM
Is this the kind of push that you would make as town? I understand this is a vague question, I'm reaction probing, I have no problem telling you that.Oh I see, town is an adjective. Sorry about that.
I feel like "push" is too strong here. I'm trying to get a read on people, and as of now, they're all quite murky. For the reasons I stated, Sapph is giving me more scum vibes, so I want to draw attention to him as a way of hearing other's opinions to hopefully clear the waters a bit. So it's something I'm pointing out, though I by no means feel confident enough to try and get Sapph lynched without further evidence.
Also it's kinda just my attempt to fulfill the requests to hear more from me without just repeating the arguments everyone else has already made. I still managed to feel useful last game cause I could interpret the meta of other XKI players. Not so much now, so this is what I came up with instead.
Post by: Sapphiron on February 04, 2021, 07:57:44 AM
Post by: Laurentus on February 04, 2021, 08:26:43 AM
Post by: Minish on February 04, 2021, 08:28:11 AM
Also it's interesting that there was no kill. I don't think all 4 scum would be inactive enough to no submit a kill. But it also seems pretty lucky for Doc to get a heal.
I'm thinking maybe everyone should just post their top town read? If doc did stop a kill last night that would clear someone, but I don't want them to out themselves so at least if we all did this and doc died we could possibly know their results.
Post by: Doc on February 04, 2021, 08:30:15 AM
I'm thinking maybe everyone should just post their top town read? If doc did stop a kill last night that would clear someone, but I don't want them to out themselves so at least if we all did this and doc died we could possibly know their results.Wait, what? I never claimed to do anything of the sort.
Post by: Laurentus on February 04, 2021, 08:30:54 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 04, 2021, 08:31:11 AM
Post by: Laurentus on February 04, 2021, 08:31:31 AM
I'm thinking maybe everyone should just post their top town read? If doc did stop a kill last night that would clear someone, but I don't want them to out themselves so at least if we all did this and doc died we could possibly know their results.Wait, what? I never claimed to do anything of the sort.
She means the Doctor, what we call defender here.
Post by: Laurentus on February 04, 2021, 08:32:24 AM
@Laurentus Could you update the lynch scene to reflect who voted who?
Also it's interesting that there was no kill. I don't think all 4 scum would be inactive enough to no submit a kill. But it also seems pretty lucky for Doc to get a heal.
I'm thinking maybe everyone should just post their top town read? If doc did stop a kill last night that would clear someone, but I don't want them to out themselves so at least if we all did this and doc died we could possibly know their results.
Hmm, you want me to say who voted on each of the wagons for D1?
Post by: Red Mones on February 04, 2021, 08:34:36 AM
Post by: Laurentus on February 04, 2021, 08:38:55 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 04, 2021, 08:42:34 AM
Post by: Minish on February 04, 2021, 08:53:18 AM
Reminder that role revealing is absolutely forbidden.
Is softing cool or just no hinting at all? Also thanks for the vote update!
And yeah sorry I meant doctor. Used to a bit different terms than y'all like calling it cop instead of seer.
Nyght is also my top town read.
Post by: Laurentus on February 04, 2021, 08:55:30 AM
Reminder that role revealing is absolutely forbidden.
Is softing cool or just no hinting at all? Also thanks for the vote update!
And yeah sorry I meant doctor. Used to a bit different terms than y'all like calling it cop instead of seer.
Nyght is also my top town read.
If it is a very, very soft claim, then sure. But what I'm going for here is that people need to try and come up with clear, rational arguments for who they find sus or or inno.
Post by: Minish on February 04, 2021, 12:34:04 PM
Post by: Melehan on February 04, 2021, 01:59:09 PM
But before I do that...
The Walls have spoken! Hapi's noble sacrifice has spared another a most gruesome fate!
May Hapi watch over us from the Walls Beyond, where she now resides in a world without Ignorance!
Post by: Melehan on February 04, 2021, 02:03:53 PM
I find it very interesting how you've excluded yourself from that list, especially considering you're trying to sus the rest of us. Looks like a scum play to me.No one died? Well that settles it. Doc, TGN, and ENE are our wolves
In all seriousness, we may wanna push on the people who voted for Hapi. @NyghtOwl (who is town as far as I'm concerned), @Melehan, @Doc, and @cozmikrae.
Post by: Melehan on February 04, 2021, 02:10:10 PM
Who knows , Melehan might randomly come across a wolf , place a FoS , which i think will make him a target inevitablyI wouldn't call it random. Pushing hard for a joke lynch D1 with no info is pretty sus.
Also, I see you've been busy reading the guide threads. You're doing great!
Post by: TGN on February 04, 2021, 02:17:21 PM
No one died? Well that settles it. Doc, TGN, and ENE are our wolves
In all seriousness, we may wanna push on the people who voted for Hapi. @NyghtOwl (who is town as far as I'm concerned), @Melehan, @Doc, and @cozmikrae.
(jk lol)
but that's a good idea
Post by: Melehan on February 04, 2021, 02:21:24 PM
But on the other hand, it could have been a slip.
Then on the other other hand, Doc as Doctor would be hilarious.
Normally I'd be all "the defenders have two potential clears now + the formation of the Seer Squad", but I can't help but be suspicious of how confident Minish was about the wolves NOT pulling an NKN1, which, considering I suspect a powerwolf in play, is a real possibility.
Let the paranoia begin...
Post by: Melehan on February 04, 2021, 02:26:47 PM
As I pointed out D1, I think we also need to look at the Michi wagon. Michi had a strong lead for most of D1, and unless there was a bus plot in play (possible), Michi is unlikely to be a Wolf.No one died? Well that settles it. Doc, TGN, and ENE are our wolves
In all seriousness, we may wanna push on the people who voted for Hapi. @NyghtOwl (who is town as far as I'm concerned), @Melehan, @Doc, and @cozmikrae.OmG I Can'T BEliEve ThAt yOu wOuLd vOtE Me
(jk lol)
but that's a good idea
If it was a bus play, Vro's vote switching becomes a lot more suspicious, as does anyone willing to use that as a way to clear Vro.
Regardless, there's at least one Wolf in the Michi pile regardless of a bus or no bus scenario.
Post by: Eastern New England on February 04, 2021, 02:45:04 PM
NeutralI turned out to be wolf, actually.
ENE: Posted a copypasta about why everyone should vote D1 then hasn't voted or even posted beyond that. He did turn out to be town last game while being quiet, though, so that might just be his style.
Post by: Minish on February 04, 2021, 03:21:08 PM
Also not confident about scum no killing but I think it makes less sense. Unless only the godfather type titan can submit the kill, in which case it would make more sense. But I see Laur letting any mafia at least put in the night action kill.
Post by: Vroendal on February 04, 2021, 04:26:09 PM
Minish's town read idea and why it is not a good one
Also it's interesting that there was no kill. I don't think all 4 scum would be inactive enough to no submit a kill. But it also seems pretty lucky for Doc to get a heal.I also don't think there would be no N1 kill, I see this as a very bad idea that NOBODY should partake in at least until Minish finishes explaining herself.
I'm thinking maybe everyone should just post their top town read? If doc did stop a kill last night that would clear someone, but I don't want them to out themselves so at least if we all did this and doc died we could possibly know their results.
Why would this help at all? If you are asking everyone to site their top town read and expecting the defender type to state who they protected the only thing it does is literally reveal the defender type to the wolves. Are you counting on multiple people saying the same target? That's a pretty risky assumption to make, not worth the risk at all from how I see it. In what way is this a good idea?
This counts as an irreversible sus, Minish, I find myself unable to explain why you think that's a good idea from any town perspective.
Link between a scum Michi and BSR
Oh yeah @Vroendal, what was the link between Michi and BSR?I said there was a link between BSR and specifically scum Michi because BSR has done exactly 3 things this game: Ask to confirm the roles/abilities we had, liked Red Mones' response, and liked Michi's first post.
Man, it's always weird just to see a vote or two in the first day when there's no rule requiring it day one...but I think this beats all.Yes, I was sussing a scum link for a like on a post, sue me. It is interesting just by virtue of being the only thing he's engaged with, to which you might ask why BSR would out himself like that. However, it is notable that he also voted someone early on as a town role in the LOTR game whereas now he has been silent and unengaged. Scum adopting similar tactics is by means an impossibility, and the open support of Michi's opinion despite his clear hypocrisy is telling in my opinion. BSR was also quiet and asked questions about roles last game so no AI actions there, it's the only place where I can a true read on BSR.
Ya'll are crazy.
(I apologize at the time earlier this game when I said BSR hadn't posted, my eyes went right over his initial post on the first page.)
Post by: Minish on February 04, 2021, 05:08:44 PM
The docs wouldn't (and can't even out themselves). If the kill was stopped by a doc it is very very likely it's not some random player who didn't post and it's someone who already looks townie. So yes I would expect a lot of overlap with people's top town reads. Usually we do this just by people making reads lists since they're so normal on zd but y'all don't seem to do those much here. So the idea is that (I'm going to use a hypothetical scenario here), if I were doc and targeted Nyght and then I said Nyght is my top town read, then if I die you all can know who I targeted that night and not just be in the dark with no info from me.
The one backfire is that scum could possibly find out who doc is because they would know who the kill failed on. But like I said, I doubt it was a random person so likely someone multiple people are reading as town.
If y'all don't want to do it this way it's fine. But for goodness sake please do some ordered lists at some point and docs can do the same and blend it in that way.
Basically I don't want a no kill to lead to nothing because that's really good info n1. I want us to at least have a good idea of who the doc protected if they flip.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 04, 2021, 05:21:17 PM
Anywho, from what I can gather it looks like we have a few suspicious people. That last minute vote switch on Vro is weird to me. As far my own vote, I was just trying to keep things from getting to hard to follow. I didn't want to have to factor in someone with a reputation for doing things completely off the wall and make my life more difficult.
That being said, a lack of a kill from the wolves is disconcerting. But I'm not sure what to make of it.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 04, 2021, 05:24:24 PM
I can certainly see a good reason to hear from those of us that lynched Hapi. Particularly I'd like to hear how Doc and Coz feel. As their interactions seemed a bit confrontational.
Post by: Vroendal on February 04, 2021, 05:28:34 PM
I'm definitely in favor of a reads list at some point, but right here right now with only the "top" town read is imo not the best way to go about this and poses a real danger to the defenders. I shall not be participating in this.
Post by: Minish on February 04, 2021, 05:35:27 PM
@Minish, my problem is that you're relying a lot on what you think the defender would do, (protecting a more common town read) which I agree is probably very likely, but without knowing the defender type's mind you wouldn't know for certain. You also don't account for that the defenders may not even want their target as the top town read, it's still a 50/50 that they targeted the player who was also attacked, and any discrepancies will stand out if they didn't protect an obvious target and the scum attacked that non-obvious target. I asked Lau after last game and he said the defenders wouldn't get told if they successfully protected their target or not, so it probably is a 50/50.
I'm definitely in favor of a reads list at some point, but right here right now with only the "top" town read is imo not the best way to go about this and poses a real danger to the defenders. I shall not be participating in this.
It's not just relying on just what the doc would do. It's also relying on what 4 scum members would do. I doubt both scum and docs would both choose the same random, non town read player out of everyone in this game.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 04, 2021, 05:38:03 PM
I mean, just saying "do what you will" definitely won't do you any favors. :/ Come on Michi I'm really trying to give you a chance here. I miraculously survived the entirety of last game even though I was wrong on many points and looked incredibly suspicious beyond that, and I survived because I never completely gave up defending myself, just laying down and saying "lynch me" goes beyond just being suspicious to just being anti-town.This came off as very odd to me. You spent practically all of D1 pushing for Michi, then just as he's going to be killed off you make a big show of graciously giving him a chance, unvote him, vote for him again, and then at literally the last minute while Lau's counting the votes unvote him again which ties him and Hapi up at the end to start with. You didn't seem to have much self-doubt before the end of the round, so why the cold feet right at the end? Was it even cold feet, or a show for the rest of us to make you look like an uncertain townie and to distance yourself from pushing the Michi bandwagon to start with?
Either way, your actions most directly led to Hapi being killed, and are worthy of scrutiny.
In regards to Moot, his post reeks of "I have no idea what's going on but really tried to make an informed effort", and I can also vouch that it has been busy within the region management. He does make a few good points, but it seems a lot like what I do- read up and only note on things that seem particularly odd, then expand a lot about a little for no good reason."A little" is about all anyone but the wolves have to go with on Day 1...it's no more odd than killing someone off because of their chaotic gameplay or bandwagoning someone because of how people think he should have felt about something based on past games. I had to make this kind of post after Day 1 last game too...why do people only think it's odd when I try to reason something out based on what we have to go on?
And here we have Exhibit C, as presented by your former fellow scumbud who would be in a position to know:I don't know...I think it was kinda cute...Doc being the father figure to TGN. I think Doc should start a family and adopt TGN. ^-^OMG IT SAID YOU EDITIED THE POST!!!!!!!The werewolf is not the host.
YOU EDITED THE POST AND THEREFORE BROKE THE RULES OF THE GAME
VOTE LAU
FOR EDITING POST!!!!!!!!!!
lol
Come on, you and I both know you're more competent than this. Take this seriously.
Post by: Minish on February 04, 2021, 05:39:21 PM
We have some new players here and I want them to be able to leave some hints behind should they flip a power role.
Post by: Vroendal on February 04, 2021, 05:50:50 PM
I still feel that Michi was the better lynch for D1 for the reasons I had presented. I unvoted him to prove I was willing to listen so that he would respond in detail and voted him again when his response still failed to sufficiently satisfy me. I apologize for the last minute unvote, it was rather poor form. However, you can tell that it was a genuine last moment decision because I unvoted instead of voting a vanity wagon and saving myself the mandatory task of voting someone today.I mean, just saying "do what you will" definitely won't do you any favors. :/ Come on Michi I'm really trying to give you a chance here. I miraculously survived the entirety of last game even though I was wrong on many points and looked incredibly suspicious beyond that, and I survived because I never completely gave up defending myself, just laying down and saying "lynch me" goes beyond just being suspicious to just being anti-town.This came off as very odd to me. You spent practically all of D1 pushing for Michi, then just as he's going to be killed off you make a big show of graciously giving him a chance, unvote him, vote for him again, and then at literally the last minute while Lau's counting the votes unvote him again which ties him and Hapi up at the end to start with. You didn't seem to have much self-doubt before the end of the round, so why the cold feet right at the end? Was it even cold feet, or a show for the rest of us to make you look like an uncertain townie and to distance yourself from pushing the Michi bandwagon to start with?
Either way, your actions most directly led to Hapi being killed, and are worthy of scrutiny.
I got cold feet because of my own usual paranoia, but mostly because of the amount of players saying they were uncomfortable in his lynch. I trust in the players who have played with Michi longer than myself in reasoning behind his alignment. However, I still suspected him and wasn't being pinged about Hapi's innocence, so I left it to a coinflip and hoped for the best. Those who voted Hapi in the first place put her in the position to be lynched, I just didn't stand in its way. My actions one can argue have been the more genuine for being confusing.
Post by: TGN on February 04, 2021, 06:16:42 PM
just for thatI mean, just saying "do what you will" definitely won't do you any favors. :/ Come on Michi I'm really trying to give you a chance here. I miraculously survived the entirety of last game even though I was wrong on many points and looked incredibly suspicious beyond that, and I survived because I never completely gave up defending myself, just laying down and saying "lynch me" goes beyond just being suspicious to just being anti-town.This came off as very odd to me. You spent practically all of D1 pushing for Michi, then just as he's going to be killed off you make a big show of graciously giving him a chance, unvote him, vote for him again, and then at literally the last minute while Lau's counting the votes unvote him again which ties him and Hapi up at the end to start with. You didn't seem to have much self-doubt before the end of the round, so why the cold feet right at the end? Was it even cold feet, or a show for the rest of us to make you look like an uncertain townie and to distance yourself from pushing the Michi bandwagon to start with?
Either way, your actions most directly led to Hapi being killed, and are worthy of scrutiny.In regards to Moot, his post reeks of "I have no idea what's going on but really tried to make an informed effort", and I can also vouch that it has been busy within the region management. He does make a few good points, but it seems a lot like what I do- read up and only note on things that seem particularly odd, then expand a lot about a little for no good reason."A little" is about all anyone but the wolves have to go with on Day 1...it's no more odd than killing someone off because of their chaotic gameplay or bandwagoning someone because of how people think he should have felt about something based on past games. I had to make this kind of post after Day 1 last game too...why do people only think it's odd when I try to reason something out based on what we have to go on?And here we have Exhibit C, as presented by your former fellow scumbud who would be in a position to know:I don't know...I think it was kinda cute...Doc being the father figure to TGN. I think Doc should start a family and adopt TGN. ^-^OMG IT SAID YOU EDITIED THE POST!!!!!!!The werewolf is not the host.
YOU EDITED THE POST AND THEREFORE BROKE THE RULES OF THE GAME
VOTE LAU
FOR EDITING POST!!!!!!!!!!
lol
Come on, you and I both know you're more competent than this. Take this seriously.
Vote: Wintermoot
Post by: Red Mones on February 04, 2021, 06:26:41 PM
Why? I "retaliated" against Hapi's joke vote early on, but moved my vote off her because I'm not gonna have her lynched for no reason. I had nothing to do with her lynch:I find it very interesting how you've excluded yourself from that list, especially considering you're trying to sus the rest of us. Looks like a scum play to me.No one died? Well that settles it. Doc, TGN, and ENE are our wolves
In all seriousness, we may wanna push on the people who voted for Hapi. @NyghtOwl (who is town as far as I'm concerned), @Melehan, @Doc, and @cozmikrae.
Quote
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)Looks more like you pushing suspicion off of yourself.
Post by: Red Mones on February 04, 2021, 06:28:08 PM
It's D2, let's not have any more joke votes.just for thatSnipI mean, just saying "do what you will" definitely won't do you any favors. :/ Come on Michi I'm really trying to give you a chance here. I miraculously survived the entirety of last game even though I was wrong on many points and looked incredibly suspicious beyond that, and I survived because I never completely gave up defending myself, just laying down and saying "lynch me" goes beyond just being suspicious to just being anti-town.This came off as very odd to me. You spent practically all of D1 pushing for Michi, then just as he's going to be killed off you make a big show of graciously giving him a chance, unvote him, vote for him again, and then at literally the last minute while Lau's counting the votes unvote him again which ties him and Hapi up at the end to start with. You didn't seem to have much self-doubt before the end of the round, so why the cold feet right at the end? Was it even cold feet, or a show for the rest of us to make you look like an uncertain townie and to distance yourself from pushing the Michi bandwagon to start with?
Either way, your actions most directly led to Hapi being killed, and are worthy of scrutiny.In regards to Moot, his post reeks of "I have no idea what's going on but really tried to make an informed effort", and I can also vouch that it has been busy within the region management. He does make a few good points, but it seems a lot like what I do- read up and only note on things that seem particularly odd, then expand a lot about a little for no good reason."A little" is about all anyone but the wolves have to go with on Day 1...it's no more odd than killing someone off because of their chaotic gameplay or bandwagoning someone because of how people think he should have felt about something based on past games. I had to make this kind of post after Day 1 last game too...why do people only think it's odd when I try to reason something out based on what we have to go on?And here we have Exhibit C, as presented by your former fellow scumbud who would be in a position to know:I don't know...I think it was kinda cute...Doc being the father figure to TGN. I think Doc should start a family and adopt TGN. ^-^OMG IT SAID YOU EDITIED THE POST!!!!!!!The werewolf is not the host.
YOU EDITED THE POST AND THEREFORE BROKE THE RULES OF THE GAME
VOTE LAU
FOR EDITING POST!!!!!!!!!!
lol
Come on, you and I both know you're more competent than this. Take this seriously.
Vote: Wintermoot
Post by: Ruguo on February 04, 2021, 06:33:36 PM
just for that
Vote: Wintermoot
Friend. Please. I am begging you. Don't just vote like that.
Are you voting Moot because he said Doc should adopt you, or because something is pinging you? If something is pinging you, can you please elaborate on it? You're really good at picking up on little things, so I'd love to hear about what's going on in your head.
In other news, I have learned that I cannot tell a scum Minish from at town Minish- and that scares me.
Anyhow, a few thoughts.
As someone who recently also tied two wagons, I don't think it's odd that Vro would tie the wagon. It's the vote jumping that get him a swat from me. Then again, I tend to stick to one vote as much as possible, so I might be a little biased.
ENE- hello, welcome back. Please contribute more today maybe, or I'm just going to assume you're a lurky scum.
Wisch- Don't worry, you're still useful! Please keep poking at things, lord knows Sapph could use a good prod every now and then.
Mel- I need more walls from you, buddy. I think you're losing faith. (Jokes aside, I think you're right that we should start looking at the wagons from yesterday. Smart wolves wouldn't all jump on one wagon, especially when two were viable.)
Doc- if you're going to drop in to state you claimed nothing of the sort, could you please drop in to be helpful?
Nyght- Watching lurkers is a good play, but we probably have some active wolves around. Anyone that's posted more than Doc/Coz giving you bad vibes? (I realize Coz has posted a decent amount, I'm just curious for your perspective on anyone that's posted recently)
Post by: TGN on February 04, 2021, 06:38:37 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 04, 2021, 06:46:29 PM
In other news, I have learned that I cannot tell a scum Minish from at town Minish- and that scares me.My bad :p Tbf it's not like I wasn't consistent in who I was sussing. I'll grow confidence by being right in my suspicions, which doesn't happen a lot.
Anyhow, a few thoughts.
As someone who recently also tied two wagons, I don't think it's odd that Vro would tie the wagon. It's the vote jumping that get him a swat from me. Then again, I tend to stick to one vote as much as possible, so I might be a little biased.
ENE- hello, welcome back. Please contribute more today maybe, or I'm just going to assume you're a lurky scum.
Wisch- Don't worry, you're still useful! Please keep poking at things, lord knows Sapph could use a good prod every now and then.
Mel- I need more walls from you, buddy. I think you're losing faith. (Jokes aside, I think you're right that we should start looking at the wagons from yesterday. Smart wolves wouldn't all jump on one wagon, especially when two were viable.)
Doc- if you're going to drop in to state you claimed nothing of the sort, could you please drop in to be helpful?
Nyght- Watching lurkers is a good play, but we probably have some active wolves around. Anyone that's posted more than Doc/Coz giving you bad vibes? (I realize Coz has posted a decent amount, I'm just curious for your perspective on anyone that's posted recently)
I agree with all your statements but would also like to ask:
Kane for his thoughts atm, on anything or everything.
BSR for likewise, where are you?
Silv, are you recognizing anything specific that could be pinging you about Minish?
Post by: cozmikrae on February 04, 2021, 06:50:38 PM
Post by: Ruguo on February 04, 2021, 07:14:06 PM
Silv, are you recognizing anything specific that could be pinging you about Minish?
What part of "I have learned I cannot tell a scum Minish from a Town Minish" Didn't you get?
Okay, that sounds harsh. Sorry. But seriously, I have no idea how to tell the two apart. I just got done having my butt kicked by a scum Minish in another game and had no idea she was scum until the very last phase where I kinda maybe had a feeling that wasn't very useful. I'm afraid that I'm not going to be of help here.
Post by: Vroendal on February 04, 2021, 07:19:37 PM
Fair enough. It sounded to me like you were seeing conflicting reads instead of just not being able to tell.Silv, are you recognizing anything specific that could be pinging you about Minish?
What part of "I have learned I cannot tell a scum Minish from a Town Minish" Didn't you get?
Okay, that sounds harsh. Sorry. But seriously, I have no idea how to tell the two apart. I just got done having my butt kicked by a scum Minish in another game and had no idea she was scum until the very last phase where I kinda maybe had a feeling that wasn't very useful. I'm afraid that I'm not going to be of help here.
If you notice anything at a later point, don't doubt yourself and come out and say it.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 04, 2021, 07:36:33 PM
just for thatI don't know why, Doc has been around for a long time would be a great person to take you under his wing, and he obviously cares about your Werewolf play. I'm going to assume for now it's not because you're both on a team of wolves again. :P
Vote: Wintermoot
Post by: Laurentus on February 04, 2021, 07:37:53 PM
Unvote
I happened to see this before the edit, but please be reminded that one of the rules explicitly forbids editing posts. Please request formal permission before doing it again.
Post by: Doc on February 04, 2021, 07:53:02 PM
I don't know...I think it was kinda cute...Doc being the father figure to TGN. I think Doc should start a family and adopt TGN. ^-^
I don't know why, Doc has been around for a long time would be a great person to take you under his wing, and he obviously cares about your Werewolf play. I'm going to assume for now it's not because you're both on a team of wolves again. :PIf we were scumbuds, I wouldn't be advising him on proper conduct out in the open, I'd do it in PMs like I did the last time. At the very least, you can infer one of us isn't scum. Which I'll elaborate on later in the post (which I wrote before this, but you posted between when I started writing this and when I finished the first pass only to get told of 2 new replies, *sigh*).
Doc- if you're going to drop in to state you claimed nothing of the sort, could you please drop in to be helpful?In my defense, it was late and I was confused, horrified, and wondering when how and where in the world I'd ever even implied I could be a power role (which I generally hate doing since, true or false, it paints a target on my back for night kills), let alone alluded to a night action of any sort (which I was very concerned about running afoul of Lau's rule about role revealing, since logically if it was solely limited to revealing the role you did have, you could 'reveal' all the roles you didn't, not get the boot, and thus have revealed without 'revealing', meaning true or false I could conceivably be at risk).
To my relief this afternoon, I instead seem to have just misinterpreted and grossly overthought it. About standard for a Wednesday (or, technically, Thursday morning).
At any rate, I'm growing increasingly suspicious of TGN considering his fairly erratic behavior. Granted, I've not seen his town play, so it might be just as chaotic as Hapi's* usual play, but the joke votes and immediate pullbacks when he catches flak the moment someone goes 'hang on a minute' seem very much like his 'I wanna push a wagon but don't want to commit and look sus' from last game. He's not at the top of my scumspect list (said person comes next), but he's an easy second.
Vro, on the other hand, seems determined to repeat the mistakes of last game. Were it not for the fact that he's shown marked adaptability in the past, I might conclude that's his playstyle. But since he was beating himself up for being dumb last game, and yet is still pulling kind of the same shit, I think it's a bluff and he's trying to cloak himself in 'meta' while being scummy AF.
Vote: Vroendal
*Sorry Hapi, ordinarily it'd be a sorry-not-sorry for lynching you, but in this case I'm genuinely sorry because I did in fact say I was only keeping my vote on you for wagonomics reasons and no longer out of genuine suspicion, so my bad, I literally fucked up and got you killed, in contrition I pledge not to D1 you again next game and you can hold my feet to the fire on that even if you come out and declare as your first post of the game 'I, Hapi, am scum this game'.
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 04, 2021, 08:10:18 PM
even if you come out and declare as your first post of the game 'I, Hapi, am scum this game'.Wouldn't that be something.
It's D2, let's not have any more joke votes.
Actual serious post coming sometime later.
Post by: Vroendal on February 04, 2021, 08:28:16 PM
Vro, on the other hand, seems determined to repeat the mistakes of last game. Were it not for the fact that he's shown marked adaptability in the past, I might conclude that's his playstyle. But since he was beating himself up for being dumb last game, and yet is still pulling kind of the same shit, I think it's a bluff and he's trying to cloak himself in 'meta' while being scummy AF.Seeing someone as scummy is a rather subjective experience. I will also not improve much am I am not told what it is you see that I am doing wrong. I find your reasoning somewhat lacking in substance and evidence, please lay out your rationale further. I lay my claim that I'm making a real effort not to tunnel. In what light do you see this game right now?
Vote: Vroendal
Post by: TGN on February 04, 2021, 08:38:06 PM
it said Untove and I didn't want to clog up the board so... yeahUnvote
I happened to see this before the edit, but please be reminded that one of the rules explicitly forbids editing posts. Please request formal permission before doing it again.
Post by: Minish on February 04, 2021, 08:43:34 PM
There were 8 people within the tied wagons. There were also 8 people who didn't vote at all.
On Hapi's wagon was NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, and Cozmikrae.
I feel good about NyghtOwl. Cozmikrae is looking okay to me as well. So let's narrow this one down to Melehan and Doc.
On Michi's wagon was Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, and Minish.
I know I'm town. Ruguo I've felt iffy about. Wischland and Gerrick I'm null on.
And then you have the 8 non voters.
Vroendal, Anubhav Ghosh, Michi, BraveSirRobin, TGN, Ogun of Valeria, Alexander Valentine, and Eastern New England.
Alexander hasn't posted at all so gonna remove him from this. Michi surprisingly didn't vote despite having a decent wagon on him. Anubhav Ghosh just subbed in so he gets a pass for now. So let's remove Alexander and Anubhav from the equation with this group.
That leaves Vro, Michi, BSR, TGN, Ogun, and ENE. All of which have posted to some extent. Vro and Michi are interesting due to just the focus around them d1. And the fact that Vro pushed a wagon and backed out last minute to cause a tie. Ogun seemed a bit iffy to me d1. TGN has just been messing around. And BSR and ENE haven't said much that I remember.
So removing either the inactive or the ones I feel decent about you have Melehan, Doc, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Ogun, Vro, Michi, TGN, BSR, and ENE.
Melehan I don't know that well but I did like her trying to get reactions d1, and I dunno if she's wild enough to draw that much attention to herself as scum with the rp aspect. Doc I haven't felt any real suspicion towards I don't think but I also don't think I read him well last game. Either way I don't think I'd like to pursue him today. Gerrick and Wisch are in similar boats. And BSR and ENE I don't feel like I have enough to go on.
So let's narrow this further to Ruguo, Ogun, Vro, Michi, and TGN.
Vro I wanted to town read but to be honest some of the things he's doing reminds me of scum me or just have some scum motivation so I'm getting a little iffy. I'll need to relook at Spongebob mafia to see how he played there. Though I do think it was maybe more reserved than here.
Michi would be a decent direction to see if it were a scum vs town wagon because that would throw some more sus on Vro. And look decent for the others voting Michi.
Anyways I need to head to bed soon so I'll do more with this stream of consciousness later.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 04, 2021, 09:06:53 PM
Vro: So the whole vote switch thing strikes me as super sus. Instead of leaving his vote he undid it, absolving himself of any guilt in the matter and avoiding attention should the lynch go wrong.
ENE: so he's pretty much just yucking it up. Which could just mean that he's looking to have some fun. Or he could be deflecting any attention away as a classical class clown.
Moot: got super defensive when suspicion was thrown his way.
Min: has really detailed analysis of the votes and game so far so I can tell that they're a good player but I can't get much of a read either way.
Was that enough? Was there anyone else I could give my thoughts on?
Post by: Ruguo on February 04, 2021, 09:16:36 PM
Michi is on the table from yesterday, as a potential info lynch- but the reasons behind his wagon were all meta based, which shouldn't play as big of a role in d2, but should still be considered- at least to reevalute where we stand.
Vro is up for the chopping block because of his own risky moves- and I think I'd feel better about offing him at this point. The problem is that he's not as info-rich as Michi right now, and that makes tomorrow harder.
Post by: Melehan on February 04, 2021, 09:55:01 PM
You stayed on Hapi as a joke vote up until you switched to me because you felt I was more sus. Not because you stated that Hapi wasn't sus.Why? I "retaliated" against Hapi's joke vote early on, but moved my vote off her because I'm not gonna have her lynched for no reason. I had nothing to do with her lynch:I find it very interesting how you've excluded yourself from that list, especially considering you're trying to sus the rest of us. Looks like a scum play to me.No one died? Well that settles it. Doc, TGN, and ENE are our wolves
In all seriousness, we may wanna push on the people who voted for Hapi. @NyghtOwl (who is town as far as I'm concerned), @Melehan, @Doc, and @cozmikrae.QuoteAdorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)Looks more like you pushing suspicion off of yourself.
And the fact remains, you did vote for Hapi, regardless of removing your vote from her. If we were only concerned with the people who stayed on the respective wagons, Vro's hopping off wouldn't be one of the main drivers of the sus on Vro. Everyone who voted on those two wagons is of interest whether they stayed on the wagon or not, and the fact you're trying to gloss over your involvement in one of those wagons?
That is sus.
@Ruguo
The Walls are quiet at the moment, their Voices likely drowned out by the unrest on the streets. Perhaps when I return home to where there is relative Peace and Quiet, I shall be better able to hear what the Walls have to say.
Post by: Melehan on February 04, 2021, 10:10:25 PM
Mind going into a bit more detail on what about Vro's logic is making him look scummy? I'm not seeing it myself.
@Vroendal
I probably would have noticed that if I had gone back and looked at the posts and likes earlier D1, but I didn't actually do that until N1. It is an interesting point though.
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 04, 2021, 10:55:43 PM
@BraveSirRobin care to comment on what has happened so far?Oh god the amount of pages :o
Umm one sec I've got to read infinite stuff haha
Post by: Red Mones on February 04, 2021, 11:06:18 PM
I mean I didn't vote for Hapi because I thought she was suspicious, it was a joke. Same way Hapi moved her vote off of me when she found someone she thought was sus. Did she move her vote off of me because I was suspicious, but cozmik was more sus? No, because her vote for me was a joke. I think that was pretty damn clear to everyone for both cases. Vro moving his vote directly led to Hapi being lynched. Nothing I did led to her lynching. This is ridiculous, Mel, and you know it.You stayed on Hapi as a joke vote up until you switched to me because you felt I was more sus. Not because you stated that Hapi wasn't sus.snipWhy? I "retaliated" against Hapi's joke vote early on, but moved my vote off her because I'm not gonna have her lynched for no reason. I had nothing to do with her lynch:I find it very interesting how you've excluded yourself from that list, especially considering you're trying to sus the rest of us. Looks like a scum play to me.No one died? Well that settles it. Doc, TGN, and ENE are our wolves
In all seriousness, we may wanna push on the people who voted for Hapi. @NyghtOwl (who is town as far as I'm concerned), @Melehan, @Doc, and @cozmikrae.QuoteAdorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)Looks more like you pushing suspicion off of yourself.
And the fact remains, you did vote for Hapi, regardless of removing your vote from her. If we were only concerned with the people who stayed on the respective wagons, Vro's hopping off wouldn't be one of the main drivers of the sus on Vro. Everyone who voted on those two wagons is of interest whether they stayed on the wagon or not, and the fact you're trying to gloss over your involvement in one of those wagons?
That is sus.
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 04, 2021, 11:24:52 PM
It should be fairly obvious that I am not scum rather simply, because generally I devote far more time to games in which I am scum. Take that for proof enough as you will lol.
As far as stuff goes, it would seem to me that Ruguo and Vro are really dominating the conversation, and while I generally don't expect that to incriminate people, the fact that this is a vanilla game with basically "power role" or village dynamic means that I expect most people (like myself) who are town to have a lot less "skin in the game," as it were.
Also, because Ruguo immediately tried to tie everything to the Valerians (Michi, Hapi and myself) and then the lynch of Hapi revealed town, I'm not convinced. Especially because creating wagons day one is never a good thing for the town.
Consequently, the people on my personal "to consider" list are the following:
Vro, NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish.
Which is "people who voted for Hapi or Michi, and Vro"
Now, Doc has turned on a dime and gone after Vro, which I definitely agree with, and he didn't change vote because wagonomics, which definitely makes sense and checks out, so I feel comfortable removing him from suspicion for now.
That being said, I really like Minish's analysis, so I have to say I don't feel like this list is by any means definitive, though I definitely think that at least 2-3 people in this list are wolves.
Thus my revised list of people who I'm really unsure about and might be wolves is:
Vro, NyghtOwl, Melehan, Cozmikrae, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland.
In that, I only feel relatively confidently about Vro for the weird metareasoning that I don't think checks out (at least with how I generally play). Also my play style definitely changes quite often I think, because I generally enjoy relying on someone who I find relatively stable early on who is at least rather predictable and then latch on to the results of said person getting their way. Generally, I rely on Lau for this because he's usually quite active and can sniff out wolves/if he is a wolf he kills me early so usually I don't have to worry about that lol.
But alas he's the host now, so I can't rely on that. I shall try to take a more active role from now on but no promises if there continues to be like 20 pages per time I view lol. I've got like 6 tabs open trying to make sense of this whole thing :))
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on February 04, 2021, 11:35:33 PM
Post by: Ruguo on February 04, 2021, 11:42:49 PM
Okay so firstly:
It should be fairly obvious that I am not scum rather simply, because generally I devote far more time to games in which I am scum. Take that for proof enough as you will lol.
As far as stuff goes, it would seem to me that Ruguo and Vro are really dominating the conversation, and while I generally don't expect that to incriminate people, the fact that this is a vanilla game with basically "power role" or village dynamic means that I expect most people (like myself) who are town to have a lot less "skin in the game," as it were.
Also, because Ruguo immediately tried to tie everything to the Valerians (Michi, Hapi and myself) and then the lynch of Hapi revealed town, I'm not convinced. Especially because creating wagons day one is never a good thing for the town.
Consequently, the people on my personal "to consider" list are the following:
Vro, NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish.
Which is "people who voted for Hapi or Michi, and Vro"
Now, Doc has turned on a dime and gone after Vro, which I definitely agree with, and he didn't change vote because wagonomics, which definitely makes sense and checks out, so I feel comfortable removing him from suspicion for now.
That being said, I really like Minish's analysis, so I have to say I don't feel like this list is by any means definitive, though I definitely think that at least 2-3 people in this list are wolves.
Thus my revised list of people who I'm really unsure about and might be wolves is:
Vro, NyghtOwl, Melehan, Cozmikrae, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland.
In that, I only feel relatively confidently about Vro for the weird metareasoning that I don't think checks out (at least with how I generally play). Also my play style definitely changes quite often I think, because I generally enjoy relying on someone who I find relatively stable early on who is at least rather predictable and then latch on to the results of said person getting their way. Generally, I rely on Lau for this because he's usually quite active and can sniff out wolves/if he is a wolf he kills me early so usually I don't have to worry about that lol.
But alas he's the host now, so I can't rely on that. I shall try to take a more active role from now on but no promises if there continues to be like 20 pages per time I view lol. I've got like 6 tabs open trying to make sense of this whole thing :))
My dear Robin, I think you have your order of events a little confused.
Hapi flipped town before I said anythign about the Valerians- and even then it was simply a joke about how many powerplayers are in that house. Lau's hosting, so he can't make that joke for this game. Someone had to do it.
I will admit I did jump on the Michi wagon, but I hardly created it. I simply felt his odd behavior for his meta on D1 was the best we had at the time- now we have more to go off of with the flippity flopping of votes.
Side note: In what world is town not doing anything good for town? I don't think anyone should have less skin in the game than others- I'm also known to just go prod around the thread to show I'm active and around to talk if anyone else is around, I do my best work bantering randomly with people. Would you like to banter, Robin? You also talk about how Lau is usually quite active and can sniff out the wolves, and I mean, would you expect him to dial it back just because he has "less skin in the game"? I'm sorry, that's just a bad argument.
Post by: Doc on February 05, 2021, 12:59:08 AM
In what world is town not doing anything good for town?Facts.
Wolves succeed because of information asymmetry, because they know exactly who's on their side (every other wolf) and who isn't (everybody else). They may not have all the facts (not knowing the power roles), but they know more than basically everybody else in the game. Consequently, it behooves them to play as many cards as possible as close to their chest as possible for as long as possible. Overplaying that hand can end disastrously, as perhaps best demonstrated by my tragic Faramir soft-claim last game, or more hypothetically, if a wolf soft-claims a power role - since now the person who actually has the power role will be dramatically more suspicious of someone claiming a role they definitively do not have.
Logically, it follows that it suits town best when everyone plays as much of their hand as possible as openly as possible. Obviously there are limitations to this - revealing your role is, for example, a terrible crime - but for another example, read-lists are useful simply because they essentially force you to say something about everyone - and thus create more avenues for wolves to overplay their hands. This often results in more chaff being thrown up by clueless townies stumbling around blindly in the dark, but the longer the game goes on and the more information town is able to dredge up simply by virtue of staying alive, the more likely we are to win.
As a corollary, balancing number of townie lives against information gained is why an early no-lynch is pointless, because that is precisely when townie lives are worth least (unfortunate as that is to say) by virtue of being in high supply, and information is worth most, by virtue of being incredibly scarce.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 05, 2021, 02:58:59 AM
Definitely sus:
TGN: mysteriously votes and unvotes... with little discussion or explanation. Mostly posts jokes or one-liners. I'm very, very suspicious.
Vroendal: Split votes early on, Michi's wagon picked up steam after he jumped on. His flip flop at the end contributed to Hapi's death. Possibly an honest mistake. But Hapi said she'd vote for Vro, if Michi was wolf. After she points that out, he deliberately unvotes and abdicates his responsibility in the vote. Feels weird to me...
Might be sus:
Doc: Not sure. Encouraged a day 1 lynch, and on the Hapi wagon. Later apologized. Either a very earnest townie, or a very good wolf.
Mel: Demanding blood sacrifices. Not sure if the loudness of the demands make her more or less sus.
ENE: Also pro D1 lynch. Did not vote though.
Less than sus:
Red Mones just being Red Mones. I'm not seeing any reason I dislike him. Not really confronting anyone. Flipping votes at a moments notice. Could also be hiding some shit though.
Nyght: Hella innocent. Super innocent. Unbelievably innocent...
Minish: Contributes to the town discussion.
Ruguo: I don't really have a read on. Red mentioned he was throwing the sus around and less analytical than in the past.
Sapphiron: Voted with RNG. Unless that was a lie, says to me they have no informed reasons to vote for anyone in particular. Probs town.
Michi: Many comments claiming he behaved oddly in this game vs. others. Not sus enough for me, and whether or not he's wolf, his defense felt like pure frustration rather than guilt. I can't vote for Michi unless I were to see something other than irritation and frustration from him.
Kane: No read really. But seems generally helpful.
Side note: could someone explain the concept of "wagonomics?"
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 05, 2021, 03:08:22 AM
Vro. Their defense this day has been less about their own innocence and more casting doubt on anyone elses logic. It feels like someone who's just trying to show distrust in other people.
BSR: Who's big claim to not scumminess is that he doesn't play scum like that. Which is a weird thing to claim. Like, saying that you've played scum differently in the past, I get that, but like, anything else? Because that's not a lot. If it's well known that you play differently in different roles than an obvious strategy would be to switch it up and rely on people's knowledge of an obvious meta.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 05, 2021, 03:10:41 AM
Vote: TGN
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 03:16:58 AM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 05, 2021, 03:20:39 AM
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 03:21:44 AM
what did you think that made you vote moi
Post by: cozmikrae on February 05, 2021, 03:27:08 AM
You don't explain your reasons for votes or unvotes. And you're flip floppy. You're the most suspicious at this point. I'm sussing Vro too. But you're the most sus. Care to comment? Talk me out of it?
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 03:30:10 AM
my votes were jokes
Post by: Doc on February 05, 2021, 03:34:30 AM
Side note: could someone explain the concept of "wagonomics?"Explanation:
Very briefly, it's looking at voting patterns to figure out whether or not someone on the chopping block is scum. It sort of assumes some level of powerwolfing.
If there's a big bunch of people who hop aboard one wagon in particular - especially if it happens without too much or overly convincing evidence of scum nature - there's a good chance that person is town, and scum are piling in order to drive a mislynch.
Having multiple viable wagons helps make it easier to note if that's happening, since if there's a big pile on one in particular, it indicates one of two things: with good evidence, scum are going for a bus play, and with poor evidence, scum are trying to drive a mislynch to keep their scumbud alive.
Application:
Considering that 8 people didn't vote at all yesterday and both wagons only got up to 4 votes, there's a reasonably good chance that from a wagonomics basis, one of the two main wagons was on scum, at least one member of scum was either powerwolfing or making a bus play (a likely candidate for this being Vro, since if we assume Michi was scum, bussing Michi that early would be pretty unprecedented, and backing out of the vote at the last second gives 50-50 odds of either 'aha my suspicions were right!' to claim all the benefits of the bus without actually making a bus play, or mislynching town), and the others were flying under the radar either by design or by virtue of inactivity.
Essentially, if we lynch Vro today, and he turns out to be scum, Michi moves up quite far on my scumspect list as the main beneficiary of his last-minute switch at EOD1. If we lynch and Vro isn't scum, then Michi is likely not scum, and we either need to 1) be looking at the people who voted but weren't on either wagon as attempting to fly under the radar while knowing a mislynch was functionally guaranteed, or 2) if there's no night kill again, strongly considering the possibility that most of the scum team is inactive. Which would be quite a dull way for the game to go and on the one hand, hopefully that won't be the case, but on the other, fuck it, a win's a win.
Post by: Melehan on February 05, 2021, 03:44:53 AM
I just got to page 5, so, it'll be a while...
I would also like to say that I would be very surprised if there isn't at least one wolf on the Michi train because it gained traction a lot faster than the trains on Hapi and Red did, even with several people flip-flopping votes.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 05, 2021, 03:49:48 AM
Ok thanks for this explanation. Can you explain the application in your wagonomics reasoning for your Hapi vote then?Side note: could someone explain the concept of "wagonomics?"Explanation:
Very briefly, it's looking at voting patterns to figure out whether or not someone on the chopping block is scum. It sort of assumes some level of powerwolfing.
If there's a big bunch of people who hop aboard one wagon in particular - especially if it happens without too much or overly convincing evidence of scum nature - there's a good chance that person is town, and scum are piling in order to drive a mislynch.
Having multiple viable wagons helps make it easier to note if that's happening, since if there's a big pile on one in particular, it indicates one of two things: with good evidence, scum are going for a bus play, and with poor evidence, scum are trying to drive a mislynch to keep their scumbud alive.
Application:
Considering that 8 people didn't vote at all yesterday and both wagons only got up to 4 votes, there's a reasonably good chance that from a wagonomics basis, one of the two main wagons was on scum, at least one member of scum was either powerwolfing or making a bus play (a likely candidate for this being Vro, since if we assume Michi was scum, bussing Michi that early would be pretty unprecedented, and backing out of the vote at the last second gives 50-50 odds of either 'aha my suspicions were right!' to claim all the benefits of the bus without actually making a bus play, or mislynching town), and the others were flying under the radar either by design or by virtue of inactivity.
Essentially, if we lynch Vro today, and he turns out to be scum, Michi moves up quite far on my scumspect list as the main beneficiary of his last-minute switch at EOD1. If we lynch and Vro isn't scum, then Michi is likely not scum, and we either need to 1) be looking at the people who voted but weren't on either wagon as attempting to fly under the radar while knowing a mislynch was functionally guaranteed, or 2) if there's no night kill again, strongly considering the possibility that most of the scum team is inactive. Which would be quite a dull way for the game to go and on the one hand, hopefully that won't be the case, but on the other, fuck it, a win's a win.
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 03:54:23 AM
Reads List
Town Core -
Nyght - Behavior, reasoning, and tone very highly indicative of towniness. If Nyght's a wolf I have never been more thoroughly bamboozled.
Town Leans -
Red Mones - Behavior highly indicative of town imo, making very reasonable defenses for his actions, not afraid to have a stand-alone controversial opinion.
Gerrick - Traditional town Gerrick activity level, early and insightful reads list.
Wischland - Started off with not much original line of thought, explained herself for that well, has behaved similarly to her last game here. Provides insightful reasoning when prompted.
cozmikrae - Reasoning follows what I believe is a townie line of thinking. Making questionable susses but aligns with what I hesitantly expect from a newer player.
Nulls -
Melehan - Chaotic probing, yet what I feel are town motivated reads and analysis, need more knowledge about to state a town lean for certain.
Ruguo - Would almost put them in town leans, except I can't shake the nagging feeling that the admittedly townie line of thought they are presenting would be easy for them to fake with their playstyle and talent. Sees things rather differently from the majority, which I like.
Wintermoot - I never have any idea how to read Moot. Line of thought very similar to last game's, branching off on vanity wagon again, what I feel is townie reasoning presented with flaws, yet the lower participation makes it hard to be more sure of his alignment.
Kane - Has made one decent size post, would prefer to see his promised second decent-sized post before making any judgments. Want to put him in town leans.
Doc - Admittedly more scum-hunting and posting than last game which is promising, yet an underdeveloped vote (surrounded by otherwise good reasoning) which I admittedly have a personal bias against prevents me from moving him up.
Anubhav - Need more participation in the game to make a read.
Sapphiron - Has had maybe one good post but has otherwise dipped, which at D2 is disappointing and a detriment to town. May threaten again.
Alexander - I do not think a wolf would be this disengaged, but with absolutely no sign that he even has opened this thread his activity may be NAI.
ENE - Has spoken once or twice, would greatly like to hear his personal line's of thinking.
TGN - Why do you do this to me... I do not feel comfortable attempting to read.
Minish - Always has excellent reasoning and a great town tone, which makes her suggestion all the more worrying to me personally. Presents a scenario which at worst will reveal a power role to the wolves, at best presents a case of WIFOM later on making it unnecessary and/or dangerous.
Ogun - ALWAYS sounds sus, has presented inconsistent logic, which unfortunately may be NAI. Has posted at a better rate.
BraveSirRobin - Has appeared to be disengaged, has emerged with a decent post with several problems instantly shot down by Silv. If Michi is a wolf I believe BSR has higher chance of being a wolf.
Scum Leans -
Michi - Started off with a slight meta sus, have been very unsatisfied by his responses, still can't shake the worry that many experienced players who have played with Michi are uncomfortable with his vote and that his activity at this point may speak more to a disengaged town than a saved wolf. Would be up for lynching at least for info if no new leads are presented.
If you have a question about this list I will attempt to answer to your satisfaction. In short, the lynches I personally am slightly more comfortable with atm whether they will be possible/favorably viewed or not are: Michi, BSR, Ogun, Minish.
If it's a question of self-preservation I may be inclined to lynch the other null reads.
Nyght - Behavior, reasoning, and tone very highly indicative of towniness. If Nyght's a wolf I have never been more thoroughly bamboozled.
Town Leans -
Red Mones - Behavior highly indicative of town imo, making very reasonable defenses for his actions, not afraid to have a stand-alone controversial opinion.
Gerrick - Traditional town Gerrick activity level, early and insightful reads list.
Wischland - Started off with not much original line of thought, explained herself for that well, has behaved similarly to her last game here. Provides insightful reasoning when prompted.
cozmikrae - Reasoning follows what I believe is a townie line of thinking. Making questionable susses but aligns with what I hesitantly expect from a newer player.
Nulls -
Melehan - Chaotic probing, yet what I feel are town motivated reads and analysis, need more knowledge about to state a town lean for certain.
Ruguo - Would almost put them in town leans, except I can't shake the nagging feeling that the admittedly townie line of thought they are presenting would be easy for them to fake with their playstyle and talent. Sees things rather differently from the majority, which I like.
Wintermoot - I never have any idea how to read Moot. Line of thought very similar to last game's, branching off on vanity wagon again, what I feel is townie reasoning presented with flaws, yet the lower participation makes it hard to be more sure of his alignment.
Kane - Has made one decent size post, would prefer to see his promised second decent-sized post before making any judgments. Want to put him in town leans.
Doc - Admittedly more scum-hunting and posting than last game which is promising, yet an underdeveloped vote (surrounded by otherwise good reasoning) which I admittedly have a personal bias against prevents me from moving him up.
Anubhav - Need more participation in the game to make a read.
Sapphiron - Has had maybe one good post but has otherwise dipped, which at D2 is disappointing and a detriment to town. May threaten again.
Alexander - I do not think a wolf would be this disengaged, but with absolutely no sign that he even has opened this thread his activity may be NAI.
ENE - Has spoken once or twice, would greatly like to hear his personal line's of thinking.
TGN - Why do you do this to me... I do not feel comfortable attempting to read.
Minish - Always has excellent reasoning and a great town tone, which makes her suggestion all the more worrying to me personally. Presents a scenario which at worst will reveal a power role to the wolves, at best presents a case of WIFOM later on making it unnecessary and/or dangerous.
Ogun - ALWAYS sounds sus, has presented inconsistent logic, which unfortunately may be NAI. Has posted at a better rate.
BraveSirRobin - Has appeared to be disengaged, has emerged with a decent post with several problems instantly shot down by Silv. If Michi is a wolf I believe BSR has higher chance of being a wolf.
Scum Leans -
Michi - Started off with a slight meta sus, have been very unsatisfied by his responses, still can't shake the worry that many experienced players who have played with Michi are uncomfortable with his vote and that his activity at this point may speak more to a disengaged town than a saved wolf. Would be up for lynching at least for info if no new leads are presented.
If you have a question about this list I will attempt to answer to your satisfaction. In short, the lynches I personally am slightly more comfortable with atm whether they will be possible/favorably viewed or not are: Michi, BSR, Ogun, Minish.
If it's a question of self-preservation I may be inclined to lynch the other null reads.
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 04:01:11 AM
I would also like to say that I would be very surprised if there isn't at least one wolf on the Michi train because it gained traction a lot faster than the trains on Hapi and Red did, even with several people flip-flopping votes.Of all the people on the train, disregarding myself, the one I might least expect to follow me for reasoning which experienced heads are saying is bad, is Minish. Just something to think about. It should also be remembered that Gerrick was the initial vote, whose reasoning I extrapolated on, whether you can make something of that or not.
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 04:04:05 AM
TGN - Why do you do this to me... I do not feel comfortable attempting to read.that's it...
I just make you uncomfortable?
pls just read me, please. I need to know what the masses think of me
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 04:09:28 AM
I suppose if I was to go with what I can see right now my two closest to scum reads would be:I wasn't arguing my own innocence until a point when arguing for it was the timely action to take. Proceeding with the assumption that I get voted up, I find it invaluable to at least get a start on all my current reads or suspicions, so yes I did cast my own doubts. If by your last sentence you meant that I'm trying to show my own distrust in other people, my response is that I say it how I see it, if I see a possible lead I'll usually go for it. If you meant that I was sowing distrust, I wasn't purposefully, I would say that I found justifiable wariness and instilling that quality very good to prevent wolves taking over from within.
Vro. Their defense this day has been less about their own innocence and more casting doubt on anyone elses logic. It feels like someone who's just trying to show distrust in other people.
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 04:12:18 AM
I cri ;-;TGN - Why do you do this to me... I do not feel comfortable attempting to read.that's it...
I just make you uncomfortable?
pls just read me, please. I need to know what the masses think of me
Your behavior always makes me want to think you're town, because no serious wolf would do that, right? The problem is you aren't a serious wolf, I genuinely don't know what to make of how you're playing, I see no real difference from last game. On a different note though I've been traumatized from last game, I find it actually more encouraging that no one is exactly defending you this game from what I remember, but I doubt the wolves would adopt the same strategy anyway.
Post by: Doc on February 05, 2021, 04:16:55 AM
Ok thanks for this explanation. Can you explain the application in your wagonomics reasoning for your Hapi vote then?Wanting multiple wagons in order to be able to compare/contrast voting patterns between them (or observe a lack thereof).
Unless scum absolutely fucks up, there's about 90% odds D1 will be a mislynch. Paired with the fact that - as I noted earlier - on D1, townie lives are relatively low value, that suggests that regardless of whether you're particularly convinced someone's scum or not - and you'll rarely be genuinely convinced someone is scum D1 unless they actually legit fucked up - you might as well make sure that there's at least 2 reasonably-sized wagons going for the purposes of accumulating useful information.
To use an analogy, D1 (and likely D2) wagonomics operates on much the same basis as WWII USSR: just like they traded land for time to blunt Barbarossa, so too must town necessarily trade townie lives for information with which they can root out scum.
So: D1, I make the wagonomics call on the basis of Most Viable Second Wagon, and Hapi died as a result. Which, while unfortunate* because she turned out to be town, was the mathematically likely outcome anyway. But as far as I'm concerned, if we trade a couple of mislynched townies in exchange for being able to halve-or-better our list of scumspects, that's a good trade. I'd do it again**.
*Again, the only reason I'm giving out the future-game-D1-pass for that is because I really don't want the perception that I have some kind of vendetta against her since I keep fucking doing it and consequently feel kind of guilty about it.
**...in the sense of 'I'd make that trade again', not 'I'm gonna D1 hammer lynch Hapi again'.
Might as well make my own minor reads list at this point.Frankly, this reads like my readslists from last game.Reads ListTown Core -
Nyght - Behavior, reasoning, and tone very highly indicative of towniness. If Nyght's a wolf I have never been more thoroughly bamboozled.
Town Leans -
Red Mones - Behavior highly indicative of town imo, making very reasonable defenses for his actions, not afraid to have a stand-alone controversial opinion.
Gerrick - Traditional town Gerrick activity level, early and insightful reads list.
Wischland - Started off with not much original line of thought, explained herself for that well, has behaved similarly to her last game here. Provides insightful reasoning when prompted.
cozmikrae - Reasoning follows what I believe is a townie line of thinking. Making questionable susses but aligns with what I hesitantly expect from a newer player.
Nulls -
Melehan - Chaotic probing, yet what I feel are town motivated reads and analysis, need more knowledge about to state a town lean for certain.
Ruguo - Would almost put them in town leans, except I can't shake the nagging feeling that the admittedly townie line of thought they are presenting would be easy for them to fake with their playstyle and talent. Sees things rather differently from the majority, which I like.
Wintermoot - I never have any idea how to read Moot. Line of thought very similar to last game's, branching off on vanity wagon again, what I feel is townie reasoning presented with flaws, yet the lower participation makes it hard to be more sure of his alignment.
Kane - Has made one decent size post, would prefer to see his promised second decent-sized post before making any judgments. Want to put him in town leans.
Doc - Admittedly more scum-hunting and posting than last game which is promising, yet an underdeveloped vote (surrounded by otherwise good reasoning) which I admittedly have a personal bias against prevents me from moving him up.
Anubhav - Need more participation in the game to make a read.
Sapphiron - Has had maybe one good post but has otherwise dipped, which at D2 is disappointing and a detriment to town. May threaten again.
Alexander - I do not think a wolf would be this disengaged, but with absolutely no sign that he even has opened this thread his activity may be NAI.
ENE - Has spoken once or twice, would greatly like to hear his personal line's of thinking.
TGN - Why do you do this to me... I do not feel comfortable attempting to read.
Minish - Always has excellent reasoning and a great town tone, which makes her suggestion all the more worrying to me personally. Presents a scenario which at worst will reveal a power role to the wolves, at best presents a case of WIFOM later on making it unnecessary and/or dangerous.
Ogun - ALWAYS sounds sus, has presented inconsistent logic, which unfortunately may be NAI. Has posted at a better rate.
BraveSirRobin - Has appeared to be disengaged, has emerged with a decent post with several problems instantly shot down by Silv. If Michi is a wolf I believe BSR has higher chance of being a wolf.
Scum Leans -
Michi - Started off with a slight meta sus, have been very unsatisfied by his responses, still can't shake the worry that many experienced players who have played with Michi are uncomfortable with his vote and that his activity at this point may speak more to a disengaged town than a saved wolf. Would be up for lynching at least for info if no new leads are presented.
If you have a question about this list I will attempt to answer to your satisfaction. In short, the lynches I personally am slightly more comfortable with atm whether they will be possible/favorably viewed or not are: Michi, BSR, Ogun, Minish.
If it's a question of self-preservation I may be inclined to lynch the other null reads.
Maybe my opinion is tainted, but I'm just reading Vro and TGN arguing RN as a distancing play to keep one of them alive if the other gets lynched.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 05, 2021, 04:29:56 AM
I suppose if I was to go with what I can see right now my two closest to scum reads would be:I wasn't arguing my own innocence until a point when arguing for it was the timely action to take. Proceeding with the assumption that I get voted up, I find it invaluable to at least get a start on all my current reads or suspicions, so yes I did cast my own doubts. If by your last sentence you meant that I'm trying to show my own distrust in other people, my response is that I say it how I see it, if I see a possible lead I'll usually go for it. If you meant that I was sowing distrust, I wasn't purposefully, I would say that I found justifiable wariness and instilling that quality very good to prevent wolves taking over from within.
Vro. Their defense this day has been less about their own innocence and more casting doubt on anyone elses logic. It feels like someone who's just trying to show distrust in other people.
So I was honestly ready to call bs at first. but then I hopped back a page and saw your list. My point was about *sowing* distrust. Mainly because I hadn't really seen your opinion or ideas on how the game was going outside of the suspicions about you. So to me it felt less like you were trying move the discussion on the state of the game forward and just trying to throw people onto each other instead. My apologies if I misread your intent. Does that make sense? Sometimes I tend to ramble in forum postings.
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 04:34:19 AM
So I was honestly ready to call bs at first. but then I hopped back a page and saw your list. My point was about *sowing* distrust. Mainly because I hadn't really seen your opinion or ideas on how the game was going outside of the suspicions about you. So to me it felt less like you were trying move the discussion on the state of the game forward and just trying to throw people onto each other instead. My apologies if I misread your intent. Does that make sense? Sometimes I tend to ramble in forum postings.Alright, fair enough. Yeah, tbh I waited so long because I felt I was taking too much of the game over, I wanted other people to have breathing room to voice their concerns to each other, even if they were about me. My intent was certainly to move the game forward, I wasn't specifically trying to throw certain people onto each other, but also getting people to interact can provide info into whether I think their link seems suspicious in any way. Yes it does make sense.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 05, 2021, 04:51:15 AM
Ok thanks for this explanation. Can you explain the application in your wagonomics reasoning for your Hapi vote then?Wanting multiple wagons in order to be able to compare/contrast voting patterns between them (or observe a lack thereof).
Unless scum absolutely fucks up, there's about 90% odds D1 will be a mislynch. Paired with the fact that - as I noted earlier - on D1, townie lives are relatively low value, that suggests that regardless of whether you're particularly convinced someone's scum or not - and you'll rarely be genuinely convinced someone is scum D1 unless they actually legit fucked up - you might as well make sure that there's at least 2 reasonably-sized wagons going for the purposes of accumulating useful information.
To use an analogy, D1 (and likely D2) wagonomics operates on much the same basis as WWII USSR: just like they traded land for time to blunt Barbarossa, so too must town necessarily trade townie lives for information with which they can root out scum.
So: D1, I make the wagonomics call on the basis of Most Viable Second Wagon, and Hapi died as a result. Which, while unfortunate* because she turned out to be town, was the mathematically likely outcome anyway. But as far as I'm concerned, if we trade a couple of mislynched townies in exchange for being able to halve-or-better our list of scumspects, that's a good trade. I'd do it again**.
*Again, the only reason I'm giving out the future-game-D1-pass for that is because I really don't want the perception that I have some kind of vendetta against her since I keep fucking doing it and consequently feel kind of guilty about it.
**...in the sense of 'I'd make that trade again', not 'I'm gonna D1 hammer lynch Hapi again'.
Ok I see, I see. This is some interesting Werewolf game theory. I'll have to keep this in mind. Thanks for the explanation.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 05, 2021, 05:56:38 AM
I suppose if I was to go with what I can see right now my two closest to scum reads would be:I wasn't arguing my own innocence until a point when arguing for it was the timely action to take. Proceeding with the assumption that I get voted up, I find it invaluable to at least get a start on all my current reads or suspicions, so yes I did cast my own doubts. If by your last sentence you meant that I'm trying to show my own distrust in other people, my response is that I say it how I see it, if I see a possible lead I'll usually go for it. If you meant that I was sowing distrust, I wasn't purposefully, I would say that I found justifiable wariness and instilling that quality very good to prevent wolves taking over from within.
Vro. Their defense this day has been less about their own innocence and more casting doubt on anyone elses logic. It feels like someone who's just trying to show distrust in other people.
So I was honestly ready to call bs at first. but then I hopped back a page and saw your list. My point was about *sowing* distrust. Mainly because I hadn't really seen your opinion or ideas on how the game was going outside of the suspicions about you. So to me it felt less like you were trying move the discussion on the state of the game forward and just trying to throw people onto each other instead. My apologies if I misread your intent. Does that make sense? Sometimes I tend to ramble in forum postings.
So I was honestly ready to call bs at first. but then I hopped back a page and saw your list. My point was about *sowing* distrust. Mainly because I hadn't really seen your opinion or ideas on how the game was going outside of the suspicions about you. So to me it felt less like you were trying move the discussion on the state of the game forward and just trying to throw people onto each other instead. My apologies if I misread your intent. Does that make sense? Sometimes I tend to ramble in forum postings.Alright, fair enough. Yeah, tbh I waited so long because I felt I was taking too much of the game over, I wanted other people to have breathing room to voice their concerns to each other, even if they were about me. My intent was certainly to move the game forward, I wasn't specifically trying to throw certain people onto each other, but also getting people to interact can provide info into whether I think their link seems suspicious in any way. Yes it does make sense.
Vro seems softened up after this distrust theory , maybe his nerves are failing after drawing in so much suspicion , which he certainly can't avoid .The voting of Michi seems more important to me than his unvote . Since idk about playstyles , I don't read much about anyone coz i lack past data . But as of Vro's vote , if by chance Michi proved to be scum and Vro had his vote on Michi , he would have had dispersed into the townies group with ease for throwing out a wolf . However that seemed improbable as Hapi lynch seemed to gain momentum , until the tides turned and Michi wagon also came into play . At this point Vro probably would keep a scum by his side than send him off to prove innocence , and so the reversal . My FoS would go towards Vro , undecided on voting as of now
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 06:14:09 AM
Vro seems softened up after this distrust theory , maybe his nerves are failing after drawing in so much suspicion , which he certainly can't avoid .The voting of Michi seems more important to me than his unvote . Since idk about playstyles , I don't read much about anyone coz i lack past data . But as of Vro's vote , if by chance Michi proved to be scum and Vro had his vote on Michi , he would have had dispersed into the townies group with ease for throwing out a wolf . However that seemed improbable as Hapi lynch seemed to gain momentum , until the tides turned and Michi wagon also came into play . At this point Vro probably would keep a scum by his side than send him off to prove innocence , and so the reversal . My FoS would go towards Vro , undecided on voting as of nowOh dang, this is a remarkable analysis. Have you had experience in a type of forum game before? Your theory would seem better suited if I had actually switched votes to Hapi, how would you explain just unvoting and giving my "scum bud" just as much of an equal and random chance of being lynched as Hapi? Also how would you explain me voting last minute? There were far better and fewer attention-drawing opportunities to switch votes earlier.
Post by: Gerrick on February 05, 2021, 08:00:58 AM
So that means, if Vro were scum, then his unvote was because he didn't want to be a part of a wagon that got a town killed (especially one he helped build) -- his subsequent vote flips were then to make him look like town not knowing what to do. If Vro were town, then his unvote was because of "the amount of players saying they were uncomfortable in [Michi's] lynch" -- his subsequent vote flips were then genuine indecision of whether to go with his gut or follow others (ending up choosing the latter).
Aaand, we're at WIFOM.
I'll admit that I was going into this post expecting to defend Vroendal, but I sorta reasoned myself against it. Scum Vro seems more likely in that situation than town Vro -- if others were uncomfortable with Michi's lynch, then they should have voted to save him, especially since Vro wasn't even the last person to vote for Michi (Minish would've looked most sus for putting the nail in Michi's coffin) and his evidence wasn't bad. I'm also starting to agree with Doc's hypothesis that Vro might be intentionally playing similar to last game when he was town where he admitted that he was playing very suspiciously in order to appear town again this game.
But the fact that Michi has not posted since D2 started has me worried that he's trying to not draw attention to himself while people talk about Vroendal. This is especially so since he said he stopped paying attention because people were piling on him, but since it's a new day, that's no longer the case.
But either way, we'll get info by one of them getting lynched. Hmm...
Vote: Vroendal
Please prove me wrong, though. I'd also be ok with voting for Michi or Ruguo so that they can focus on hosting the next game since neither are leaning town for me anyway. :))
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 08:27:23 AM
Gerrick's Quote
So suspicions seem to have gathered around Vroendal and Michi (among a couple others like TGN and BSR). I just don't think that both Vroendal and Michi are scum. Michi seemed resigned to his death D1, so Vroendal could have gotten some easy town points by bussing him were they both scum (especially since Vro sorta solidified the evidence against Michi). Plus, if Vro moved off Michi and then Michi flipped scum, that would look very bad on him.
So that means, if Vro were scum, then his unvote was because he didn't want to be a part of a wagon that got a town killed (especially one he helped build) -- his subsequent vote flips were then to make him look like town not knowing what to do. If Vro were town, then his unvote was because of "the amount of players saying they were uncomfortable in [Michi's] lynch" -- his subsequent vote flips were then genuine indecision of whether to go with his gut or follow others (ending up choosing the latter).
Aaand, we're at WIFOM.
I'll admit that I was going into this post expecting to defend Vroendal, but I sorta reasoned myself against it. Scum Vro seems more likely in that situation than town Vro -- if others were uncomfortable with Michi's lynch, then they should have voted to save him, especially since Vro wasn't even the last person to vote for Michi (Minish would've looked most sus for putting the nail in Michi's coffin) and his evidence wasn't bad. I'm also starting to agree with Doc's hypothesis that Vro might be intentionally playing similar to last game when he was town where he admitted that he was playing very suspiciously in order to appear town again this game.
But the fact that Michi has not posted since D2 started has me worried that he's trying to not draw attention to himself while people talk about Vroendal. This is especially so since he said he stopped paying attention because people were piling on him, but since it's a new day, that's no longer the case.
But either way, we'll get info by one of them getting lynched. Hmm...
Vote: Vroendal
Please prove me wrong, though. I'd also be ok with voting for Michi or Ruguo so that they can focus on hosting the next game since neither are leaning town for me anyway. :))
As scum Vro at that point I probably would have been too paranoid to switch, not too paranoid to stay. I had created an argument with reasoning, whether if I were bussing or not, it would be a very odd move to not vote, especially after setting it up so much.
As for last game, I had stated that I was playing suspiciously to satisfy what I thought would be an entertaining and useful way to play my role: a tree stump. As this is a game with no roles like that, it would be an odd choice to specifically try to repeat that kind of game.
I also would ask what info you think to gain from my lynch? Also, what specifically is pinging you about Ruguo?
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
One of the things from Vro that I feel has scum motivation behind it is how he reacted to my idea. In all actuality he would probably typically get town cred for his reaction, but he reminds me of how I was as scum in the game I just finished playing (the one that made Silver say he can't tell town me from scum me haha). Basically he immediately went into it explaining the bad parts of it and not talking about any benefits. To me that sort of comes from a more scum mindset. You want to immediately point out the bad so that people will think, "yeah that's a good point, they must have town's best interest in mind". Now that's not always true, town can be the same way. But usually for plans that have no positive for town at all. Vro should have seen my reasoning behind my proposal and suggested perhaps just doing reads lists instead. Because you can also hide info in those. It's also not just his reaction to the plan, but what followed with him using that to subtly put suspicion on me. Vro knows I'm considered a good player, if he's scum then getting me mislynched would be very favorable. If he can plant enough seeds of distrust than that's good scumplay.
Also, his unvote can have scum intent behind it. If Michi flips town, it could be that scum Vro didn't want to he associated with leading a town lynch and backed out last second on a "oh I'm not sure" stance so that if Michi flipped town then he looks a little better. Scum doesn't care about a coinflip between two townies and they can try to use it to get some town points. If Michi is scum with Vro, Vro tried to get bussing towncred but misplayed it. In that situation he wouldn't actually want to go to Hapi because then her flipping town really makes him and Michi more suspicious. Instead he unvotes and hopes for rng in his favor. Or he just forgets the rules and thinks unvotes are no lynches.
There's also the fact that Vro keeps claiming how bad my idea was, but if you pay any attention he actually did do the idea I was going for that he said was so bad and he wouldn't do. His readslist has only one top town read. Despite saying that my idea would out the docs, the idea of giving reads is essentially the same. Scum will pick up on someone hard town reading another player for seemingly no reason and potentially figure out that's why, since scum knows who the kill failed on. My idea was essentially to remind town to go back after flips of power roles and look into their reads to gain potential information of their actions.
Vro if you're town here you need to get me on the same page like you did last game.
Also, is Doc always like this? Him explaining wagonomics like that is a man after my own heart.
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 08:58:34 AM
Minish's Quote
@Melehan
One of the things from Vro that I feel has scum motivation behind it is how he reacted to my idea. In all actuality he would probably typically get town cred for his reaction, but he reminds me of how I was as scum in the game I just finished playing (the one that made Silver say he can't tell town me from scum me haha). Basically he immediately went into it explaining the bad parts of it and not talking about any benefits. To me that sort of comes from a more scum mindset. You want to immediately point out the bad so that people will think, "yeah that's a good point, they must have town's best interest in mind". Now that's not always true, town can be the same way. But usually for plans that have no positive for town at all. Vro should have seen my reasoning behind my proposal and suggested perhaps just doing reads lists instead. Because you can also hide info in those. It's also not just his reaction to the plan, but what followed with him using that to subtly put suspicion on me. Vro knows I'm considered a good player, if he's scum then getting me mislynched would be very favorable. If he can plant enough seeds of distrust than that's good scumplay.
Also, his unvote can have scum intent behind it. If Michi flips town, it could be that scum Vro didn't want to he associated with leading a town lynch and backed out last second on a "oh I'm not sure" stance so that if Michi flipped town then he looks a little better. Scum doesn't care about a coinflip between two townies and they can try to use it to get some town points. If Michi is scum with Vro, Vro tried to get bussing towncred but misplayed it. In that situation he wouldn't actually want to go to Hapi because then her flipping town really makes him and Michi more suspicious. Instead he unvotes and hopes for rng in his favor. Or he just forgets the rules and thinks unvotes are no lynches.
There's also the fact that Vro keeps claiming how bad my idea was, but if you pay any attention he actually did do the idea I was going for that he said was so bad and he wouldn't do. His readslist has only one top town read. Despite saying that my idea would out the docs, the idea of giving reads is essentially the same. Scum will pick up on someone hard town reading another player for seemingly no reason and potentially figure out that's why, since scum knows who the kill failed on. My idea was essentially to remind town to go back after flips of power roles and look into their reads to gain potential information of their actions.
Vro if you're town here you need to get me on the same page like you did last game.
Also, is Doc always like this? Him explaining wagonomics like that is a man after my own heart.
My Response
I'mma be real right now my brain is fried, I'll get this response in so it doesn't stew overnight but any odd or misleading specifically grammatical mistakes should be taken with the likely intention of meaning behind it.
I must admit my push on your idea was partly motivated by my knowledge of that game, I considered that since as of yet I'm not at the level where I'll be able to tell your alignment by most of your reasoning, if there was any push to be had on a possible scum Minish I had to go all out on anything I saw. I didn't talk about the benefits because you expressed those eloquently enough after I pulled it out of you, your original suggestion didn't have your full rationale laid out, so I didn't see it. I liked your final post on the topic as my acknowledgment of its points. As I said at one point I am most definitely in favor of full reads lists, but that's not what you were asking for, you were asking about a specific top read.
Your reasoning about possible scum intent has no faults, that is a definite possibility. You must take that into account with my other actions and how at least from my perspective I've been both scum-hunting and trying to draw information out.
I specifically said that posting only your top read was a bad idea, but yeah I can see you feel a little betrayed by my apparent reversal, but that's just kind of how my reads list worked out, I wasn't making it in spite of my disapproval of your original suggestion. I think I understand your reasoning behind your suggestion better after reading through it all again, but the original post was somewhat lacking in rationale, can you understand why I think that, and I panicked over the implications. I just feel that you could have gone farther than just asking everyone to specifically post their top read. I had to push to get your explanation, which was objectively not a very joyous task to set about to from someone who is traditionally seen as a strong town player.
As for Doc, from what I have observed he is like that. Very helpful.
I must admit my push on your idea was partly motivated by my knowledge of that game, I considered that since as of yet I'm not at the level where I'll be able to tell your alignment by most of your reasoning, if there was any push to be had on a possible scum Minish I had to go all out on anything I saw. I didn't talk about the benefits because you expressed those eloquently enough after I pulled it out of you, your original suggestion didn't have your full rationale laid out, so I didn't see it. I liked your final post on the topic as my acknowledgment of its points. As I said at one point I am most definitely in favor of full reads lists, but that's not what you were asking for, you were asking about a specific top read.
Your reasoning about possible scum intent has no faults, that is a definite possibility. You must take that into account with my other actions and how at least from my perspective I've been both scum-hunting and trying to draw information out.
I specifically said that posting only your top read was a bad idea, but yeah I can see you feel a little betrayed by my apparent reversal, but that's just kind of how my reads list worked out, I wasn't making it in spite of my disapproval of your original suggestion. I think I understand your reasoning behind your suggestion better after reading through it all again, but the original post was somewhat lacking in rationale, can you understand why I think that, and I panicked over the implications. I just feel that you could have gone farther than just asking everyone to specifically post their top read. I had to push to get your explanation, which was objectively not a very joyous task to set about to from someone who is traditionally seen as a strong town player.
As for Doc, from what I have observed he is like that. Very helpful.
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 09:45:36 AM
I did understand where you were coming from hence my admittance that the plan had flaws. What I would want from town though is to engage on the idea and either explain why it doesn't work at all or to improve upon it. That was mostly my issue with how you went about it. I'll give a small hint into my scum vs town play in regards to this situation. As scum I will think through any possible ramifications of a plan I propose to make sure it only gets me town cred and not suspicion. I think you can see the difference from last game to this one. Where I pushed my own scumbud because of his bad plan, I pushed Rubik because of his plan, and then I took Rubik's plan and actually twisted it to look better but actually be helpful to me as mafia as well.
My original plan wasn't thoroughly thought through in its entirety because town shouldn't feel the need to hold back on things they find helpful, and I had just woken up at the time I posted it.
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 05, 2021, 10:30:20 AM
My opposition to both the Michi and Hapi wagons yesterday was because I did not feel either were sus in any way yet. I still do not see them as sus (makes sense for the latter since they were offed and revealed) but there have been some very good points made with the analyses of the wagons and their participants. I am nearing a point where Michi could a target of my vote.
Some of the players I am finding difficult to analyze include: Melehan, Vroendal, Minish, ENE, and Wischland. Vroendal I have a fair bit of suspicion towards but they appear to be defending themselves well. Melehan keeps flip flopping in my view between town and scum leaning with the different analyses and RP/flavor posts. Minish has been quite helpful towards the town but at the same time, I have a nagging suspicion that they are playing a part as scum. Wischland and Alexander Valentine and ENE have not posted enough for me to get a read of them based off what I have read so far. I have a suspicion that somewhere in the group of BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, Red, Vroendal, Minish, Ogun and others I am not thinking of right now; there is at least one Titan. This is very much an unproved gut or vibe suspicion though.
I would say TGN is null with a slight town lean so far. While they keep making posts and votes that are explained away as jokes, something about them makes me think they are not that suspicious so far.
Nyght, Anubhav, and cozmikrae are now in a sort of town lock position for the moment (temporarily with Anubhav since they haven't posted much but they are newly substituted and those posts have me convinced). While I am not convinced of Red's suspiciousness or non suspicion, their defense combined with what I have seen of cozmik are making me think they are a player adjusting to this town setting but fitting in and trying to contribute.
As a summary of these reads.
Town Lock
NyghtOwl (Are you playing us though?)
cozmikrae ()
Anubhav Ghosh (this probably won't last long, I am being generous since they are more of a lean but that remains to be seen)
Town Lean
Wintermoot (somewhat suspicious but you seem to be triggering my gut a little less than the others)
TGN (reminds me of some of my own early games, more chaotic and less suspicious and not triggering my alarms)
Michi (they seem to just be defending themselves and their resigned defense reminds me of a lot of mislynches)
Gerrick (so far they have yet to set off an alarm)
Null or not much of a read.
Wischland (haven't seen much from their posts)
Eastern New England (not as inactive but haven't seen much from their posts)
Ogun of Valeria (same as Melehan)
Melehan (Just don't know)
Ruguo (same as the previous two)
Alexander Valentine (no activity)
Sapphiron (not sure even with I have read and remember)
Red Mones (not as conflicting as the others but somewhat town leading and conflicting)
Scum Lean
BraveSirRobin (the defense did help but I need to reread it some more, really more of a null until that time)
Conflicting Reads (definitely need more analysis since I am seeing signs of both sides or thinking I am seeing them)
Minish (not suspicious in their posts but for some reason they are reminding me of when we were both wolves and seem to be holding something back (though that is normally not suspicious to me))
Doc (I seem to be seeing a mixture of town and scum reads from my mind and others and I am being reminded of The Wall when they were scum)
Vroendal (Appears to simultaneously be scum leaning and town leaning)
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 05, 2021, 10:34:47 AM
The Wall (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=4970.0) (the slight Doc suspicion) Portal Part 1 (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6530.0) (Minish and I being wolves)
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 01:19:12 PM
I can understand why you feel a bit iffy of me seeing as you played scum with me. However, Ruguo has played with me quite a bit and he even admits himself it's hard to tell between my scum and town play. The game that me and you were scum in together, even the others from zd who I've played with a ton were town reading me, so during that game you were pretty much seeing town me.
I do appreciate the reads though. Can you explain your read on Ruguo? He's had quite a bit of posts so far, so a bit to go off of.
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 03:26:28 PM
I did understand where you were coming from hence my admittance that the plan had flaws. What I would want from town though is to engage on the idea and either explain why it doesn't work at all or to improve upon it. That was mostly my issue with how you went about it. I'll give a small hint into my scum vs town play in regards to this situation. As scum I will think through any possible ramifications of a plan I propose to make sure it only gets me town cred and not suspicion. I think you can see the difference from last game to this one. Where I pushed my own scumbud because of his bad plan, I pushed Rubik because of his plan, and then I took Rubik's plan and actually twisted it to look better but actually be helpful to me as mafia as well.Well, this does make me feel a little better. However, it should be seen that from my point of view I engaged as quickly as possible when the idea was still in its raw form, and seemed mostly as a detriment to town in its entirety. I was still trying to see the good parts in it, I wasn't completely trying to bash it as is evidenced by specifically calling it a "not good" idea instead of a "bad" idea. Your point about thinking through the ramifications is a very good one, I would expect scum you to more fully think it through. My only problem with that is it brings up a question of where do I draw the line between "oh, she's town because she didn't think it all through" and "this is scum who just woke up and decided to make a play?" I don't think anyone else was noticing its flaws, which is a little worrying. I'm not sure why you wouldn't just ask for everyone to make a reads list, or even just of all of their town leans. Have you ever been in a situation where someone has asked for only the top town reads for that reason?
My original plan wasn't thoroughly thought through in its entirety because town shouldn't feel the need to hold back on things they find helpful, and I had just woken up at the time I posted it.
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 03:36:47 PM
I did understand where you were coming from hence my admittance that the plan had flaws. What I would want from town though is to engage on the idea and either explain why it doesn't work at all or to improve upon it. That was mostly my issue with how you went about it. I'll give a small hint into my scum vs town play in regards to this situation. As scum I will think through any possible ramifications of a plan I propose to make sure it only gets me town cred and not suspicion. I think you can see the difference from last game to this one. Where I pushed my own scumbud because of his bad plan, I pushed Rubik because of his plan, and then I took Rubik's plan and actually twisted it to look better but actually be helpful to me as mafia as well.Well, this does make me feel a little better. However, it should be seen that from my point of view I engaged as quickly as possible when the idea was still in its raw form, and seemed mostly as a detriment to town in its entirety. I was still trying to see the good parts in it, I wasn't completely trying to bash it as is evidenced by specifically calling it a "not good" idea instead of a "bad" idea. Your point about thinking through the ramifications is a very good one, I would expect scum you to more fully think it through. My only problem with that is it brings up a question of where do I draw the line between "oh, she's town because she didn't think it all through" and "this is scum who just woke up and decided to make a play?" I don't think anyone else was noticing its flaws, which is a little worrying. I'm not sure why you wouldn't just ask for everyone to make a reads list, or even just of all of their town leans. Have you ever been in a situation where someone has asked for only the top town reads for that reason?
My original plan wasn't thoroughly thought through in its entirety because town shouldn't feel the need to hold back on things they find helpful, and I had just woken up at the time I posted it.
I think you draw the line at the fact that as scum I wouldn't post in that half asleep/half awake state in the first place. Haha. It wasn't like I was scum in a hurry. It's more that I was town just posting what was on my mind.
Generally people don't ask at all on zd because it's just well known that you hide stuff like that in reads lists. But there are new people here and y'all do things different so I figured it was harder to get people to make full reads lists than to just state their town reads. Mostly didn't give it much thought because I thought in a game with what 24 people (don't recall at the momebt moment how many there are), the fact that 4 scum and a doctor all decided on the same target n1 meant the target was someone very town read.
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 03:44:50 PM
I think you draw the line at the fact that as scum I wouldn't post in that half asleep/half awake state in the first place. Haha. It wasn't like I was scum in a hurry. It's more that I was town just posting what was on my mind.You know what that's probably fair. (I'm still not going to call the idea a good one though, despite the intentions it did have rather notable issues and I'll probably look back at who would've seen it and yet said nothing). If we proceed today with the assumption that you are town, and I am town, where does that leave you?
Generally people don't ask at all on zd because it's just well known that you hide stuff like that in reads lists. But there are new people here and y'all do things different so I figured it was harder to get people to make full reads lists than to just state their town reads. Mostly didn't give it much thought because I thought in a game with what 24 people (don't recall at the momebt moment how many there are), the fact that 4 scum and a doctor all decided on the same target n1 meant the target was someone very town read.
Post by: Melehan on February 05, 2021, 03:58:03 PM
My sister has been having to upload a lot of data every night as part of her job, so I haven't had the bandwidth to go through the thread to track voting and reads as thoroughly as I usually do. I'm working on it right now, but it's going to be a while before I have a proper reads list since most of my suspicions are based off what I remember going on around voting, and memory is not always reliable.
I will say that, based off memory, my current reads are this:
Town Lock - none
Town Lean - Nyght, cozmik, Anubhav, Wisch, Gerrick, Kane, Moot, Michi, Vro
Mixed/Not Enough Info - Red, Ruguo, Doc, Sapph, Ogun, Minish, ENE, Alexander
Scum Lean - TGN, BSR
I would also like to reiterate that by EOD1, I was fairly convinced Michi was Town because of how his bus progressed, which likely influenced Vro's decision to unvote Michi. Vro's voting behavior seems pretty consistent as a Town who thought Michi was sus and got the bus going, only to encounter information that made him doubt Michi was actually scum while also being convinced that Hapi was town. Vro was also the other main driver of reaction tests on D1, and his pushes and responses read as Town to me.
Minish has dropped from Town Lean to Mixed due to how she cast suspicion on Vro for doing D1 reaction tests while she used the same reasoning to place me in her Town reads. It's possible/likely she's doing that as a reaction test, but combined with how she requested only the top Town read from everyone rather than a reads list, which would definitely benefit scum more than Town, and her response to Vro essentially being "I didn't think it through completely because I'm Town", I'm thinking it's more likely to be a slip. Especially considering that she used Vro's disagreement with doing a Top Town Read as further reason to push suspicion on Vro.
I don't want to push for a lynch on Minish yet even if she is scum because she is driving a lot of discussion and reads, which are useful for Town.
Doc is in the Mixed section because, of all the people who voted for Hapi, his vote was the wishy-washiest. Red voted Hapi in an OMGUS. I voted Hapi for a joke. Nyght and Cozmik voted Hapi to take out a chaotic element early to help Town. Doc, meanwhile, wanted to vote Hapi but didn't, before pulling out the wagonomics reasoning and voting Hapi anyways. Combined with how Minish also endorses the wagonomics, Doc winds up looking slightly more scummy than Town to me because of the connection to Minish.
Of those who voted for Michi D1, Minish, Ruguo, and TGN appear the most suspicious to me. Minish I've already gone into. TGN is chaotic, and I'm seeing some repeating patterns from the last game with regards to which posts he likes, but it could also be TGN trolling me because he knows I'm watching. Ruguo is looking less scummy as D2 goes on, but I'm not ready to rule them out just yet.
Red, I'm honestly torn on. Based off his actions, I would read him as more Town leaning, although some of his reactions veer closer to being scummy. However, if Minish is scum, the odds of Red also being scum become much higher. I need to go through the voting history to compile the link I remember spotting, so... *leaves off with vague reasoning for now*
Post by: Sapphiron on February 05, 2021, 04:14:37 PM
I don't see Vro's final flip-flop of votes away from Michi to create a tie with Hapi right at the end of D1 phase as indicative of scummy behaviour, it's way more convenient to stick to it and just go along with "nobody would have known Michi is a Town" if Michi flips Town, not to mention the town cred if Michi flips scum.
Meanwhile, TGN's persistent off-tangent posts reminds me of my old scum strategy of never contributing anything of substance, and also the previous game where TGN managed to maintain a chaotic floaty persona throughout the entire game, capitalising on the newbie tolerance to hide very well as a scum.
Vote: TGN
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 04:38:25 PM
When did I say I suspected Vro for reaction testing?
Also, I find Vro's motivations behind how he handled my suggestion suspicious. I'm pushing him on it because he literally did what I asked after saying how bad it was and saying he wouldn't do it. If I hadn't even said anything about my idea at all then newer players could have been in the dark about how to best use information to their advantage. But scum wouldn't. So let's just use Vro's own list for example. He put only Nyght as his town read. Say I never say anything or create any discussion about this idea. And say scum targeted Nyght last night and Vro is the only one that mentions Nyght is his top town. Scum can potentially deduce that he is the doctor because it's something they're looking for. Whereas if Vro then flipped town, town may not think to go back and be like "oh maybe that's why he put him there".
Y'all do realize town plans don't always have to be the best but as long as they have a good intention behind them and generate discussion to a better idea than that's the idea right? I assure you that were I scum, I definitely would have just had everyone make a readslist of all their town reads or something more foolproof. I wouldn't have made such a dumb slip as scum, not to brag or anything.
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 04:40:39 PM
I think you draw the line at the fact that as scum I wouldn't post in that half asleep/half awake state in the first place. Haha. It wasn't like I was scum in a hurry. It's more that I was town just posting what was on my mind.You know what that's probably fair. (I'm still not going to call the idea a good one though, despite the intentions it did have rather notable issues and I'll probably look back at who would've seen it and yet said nothing). If we proceed today with the assumption that you are town, and I am town, where does that leave you?
Generally people don't ask at all on zd because it's just well known that you hide stuff like that in reads lists. But there are new people here and y'all do things different so I figured it was harder to get people to make full reads lists than to just state their town reads. Mostly didn't give it much thought because I thought in a game with what 24 people (don't recall at the momebt moment how many there are), the fact that 4 scum and a doctor all decided on the same target n1 meant the target was someone very town read.
Michi gives us a lot of information, but he's not even active so I'm not sure that's a good direction to go. He either gets modkilled or replaced and maybe we can get more from the replacement.
I'm still not feeling great about Ruguo. I feel like he's pushing a lot of places to see what sticks and not exactly scum hunting.
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 04:55:18 PM
Minish's Quote
When did I say I suspected Vro for reaction testing?
Also, I find Vro's motivations behind how he handled my suggestion suspicious. I'm pushing him on it because he literally did what I asked after saying how bad it was and saying he wouldn't do it. If I hadn't even said anything about my idea at all then newer players could have been in the dark about how to best use information to their advantage. But scum wouldn't. So let's just use Vro's own list for example. He put only Nyght as his town read. Say I never say anything or create any discussion about this idea. And say scum targeted Nyght last night and Vro is the only one that mentions Nyght is his top town. Scum can potentially deduce that he is the doctor because it's something they're looking for. Whereas if Vro then flipped town, town may not think to go back and be like "oh maybe that's why he put him there".
Y'all do realize town plans don't always have to be the best but as long as they have a good intention behind them and generate discussion to a better idea than that's the idea right? I assure you that were I scum, I definitely would have just had everyone make a readslist of all their town reads or something more foolproof. I wouldn't have made such a dumb slip as scum, not to brag or anything.
I know you feel that way, I can assure you though that my reads list including a set-apart top town read was completely uninfluenced by your original presentation of your idea and my rebuttal. I shared it to show the lay of the land in my own head. It's also not that I wasn't reading other players as town, I just feel more confident on Nyght on a different level. The other people I put in my town leans are there because I still am currently considering the possibility that I may be wrong about them, Nyght I am not considering at this time.
It should be clear from my rebuttals of your original presentation as well that my reads would have been made to be uninfluenced by it if I were the defender type in any case. I think a majority of people are considering Nyght as their top town read, including yourself at this point anyway, there isn't anything role indicative in my agreement. It would be a different case if I put say Kane and Nyght together or Kane at the top if I was the defender who protected him.
No, town ideas don't have to be perfect, but they can be submitted for discussion with that disclaimer laid out clearly instead of instantly proceeding with it. Scum wouldn't get as clear an idea from a full reads list, they would have a WIFOM situation where they can't be sure where the protected target is placed. You told everyone to lay it out very clearly. I don't think you would make that kind of slip in that way, but it still causes an observer to wonder. Is that such a crime?
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 05:07:21 PM
It's not that I think your reads list was in any way influenced by my plan. But it's the idea that you disagreed with the premise but also did it in a way that went along with the premise. Like I've said, I find it really unlikely both scum and doctor hit the same random person. So there would be a lot of overlap there. People can also have multiple top town reads as well.
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 05:16:07 PM
This situation is like what Ex did when he proposed his plan and I think if you're town you can definitely see the parallels.
I glanced back at Spongebob mafia and you seemed to have taken more of a backseat approach that game. You also seemed to try to do more analytical things that weren't exactly meaningful for advancing the game but were in an attempt to look good. I'm not really seeing that here but it could be a case of more experience. I want you to be town because I think you do have a good analytical mind this game. I just think you're getting hung up on the wrong things.
Anyways...
Vote: Ruguo
Post by: Melehan on February 05, 2021, 05:26:10 PM
Spoiler
I also wish to know where Minish sussed me for reaction testing, I don't recall that specifically.Minish's QuoteWhen did I say I suspected Vro for reaction testing?
Also, I find Vro's motivations behind how he handled my suggestion suspicious. I'm pushing him on it because he literally did what I asked after saying how bad it was and saying he wouldn't do it. If I hadn't even said anything about my idea at all then newer players could have been in the dark about how to best use information to their advantage. But scum wouldn't. So let's just use Vro's own list for example. He put only Nyght as his town read. Say I never say anything or create any discussion about this idea. And say scum targeted Nyght last night and Vro is the only one that mentions Nyght is his top town. Scum can potentially deduce that he is the doctor because it's something they're looking for. Whereas if Vro then flipped town, town may not think to go back and be like "oh maybe that's why he put him there".
Y'all do realize town plans don't always have to be the best but as long as they have a good intention behind them and generate discussion to a better idea than that's the idea right? I assure you that were I scum, I definitely would have just had everyone make a readslist of all their town reads or something more foolproof. I wouldn't have made such a dumb slip as scum, not to brag or anything.
I know you feel that way, I can assure you though that my reads list including a set-apart top town read was completely uninfluenced by your original presentation of your idea and my rebuttal. I shared it to show the lay of the land in my own head. It's also not that I wasn't reading other players as town, I just feel more confident on Nyght on a different level. The other people I put in my town leans are there because I still am currently considering the possibility that I may be wrong about them, Nyght I am not considering at this time.
It should be clear from my rebuttals of your original presentation as well that my reads would have been made to be uninfluenced by it if I were the defender type in any case. I think a majority of people are considering Nyght as their top town read, including yourself at this point anyway, there isn't anything role indicative in my agreement. It would be a different case if I put say Kane and Nyght together or Kane at the top if I was the defender who protected him.
No, town ideas don't have to be perfect, but they can be submitted for discussion with that disclaimer laid out clearly instead of instantly proceeding with it. Scum wouldn't get as clear an idea from a full reads list, they would have a WIFOM situation where they can't be sure where the protected target is placed. You told everyone to lay it out very clearly. I don't think you would make that kind of slip in that way, but it still causes an observer to wonder. Is that such a crime?
In contrast, I deliberately made myself look pretty scummy D1 (and earlier D2) by mostly memeing and tossing out bits of iffy logic to see if anyone picked up on it and objected in a Townie way, and Minish has me pretty high up on the Townie Reads Scale. On a side note, Red has been passing the Townie Tests with flying colors, and I would have placed him in Town Lean if I didn't suspect a connection between him and Minish.
I've also looked at the logic and reactions to other players' posts to find the others I placed in Town Lean, and Vro's posts have been invaluable in that.
Basically, Vro has been doing everything Minish says Town should, and yet Minish claims Vro's actions to be sus. It doesn't add up, unless Minish is a Wolf.
And for the record, since post likes have been noted, I personally like WW posts for a number of reasons, but the most common is that I find something interesting about/in them. I don't necessarily like posts just because I agree with them, and I have liked a number of posts I disagree with on some level because I spied some juicy potential info in them.
Post by: Melehan on February 05, 2021, 05:31:33 PM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 05, 2021, 05:34:14 PM
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 05:44:09 PM
Scum can do all the things that town do as well. In fact that's what they're supposed to do. But you have to look more than surface level and into the motivation behind them. In one of the MU Championship games that a player I'm friends with from ZD was in, and in fact Laur was also in that game, scum won because of one specific player that everyone just very highly town read. She wasn't even questioned and her actions led to her being able to take control of the game. However in our spec chat for the game she was the one I was suspecting most, because as someone removed from the stress of the game I saw her motivations behind stuff. What others were giving her town cred for, I saw reason why she was doing it to help scum out.
Also, I wouldn't say you're exactly high up on my town reads. More that I thought you had a decent enough start and are a big chaotic for me to try to get a good read with so many other players still in the game.
I'm not one that is much for reaction testing. It has its uses but it's not something I do or care about too often.
It's also interesting you say that Red is checking off all town boxes but you're not town reading him because of a possible connection to me. And part of why I had some suspicions of Vro was because of a possible connection to Michi.
You also say Red has been testing town tests with flying colors but in your previous post said some of his reactions are veering closer to scummy.
I'm also interested to know what this link between Red and myself is.
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 05:50:03 PM
Just re-read the first 15 pages, will re-read the rest another dayI would like to point something out here
I don't see Vro's final flip-flop of votes away from Michi to create a tie with Hapi right at the end of D1 phase as indicative of scummy behaviour, it's way more convenient to stick to it and just go along with "nobody would have known Michi is a Town" if Michi flips Town, not to mention the town cred if Michi flips scum.
Meanwhile, TGN's persistent off-tangent posts reminds me of my old scum strategy of never contributing anything of substance, and also the previous game where TGN managed to maintain a chaotic floaty persona throughout the entire game, capitalising on the newbie tolerance to hide very well as a scum.
Vote: TGN
I have not been using the "I'm new" strat, and if you can find a post from this
Werewolf game where I did well... I'll look dumb
and looking back at my LAST Werewolf game I never was this chaotic, never.
and if this counts as super defensive I will get anger <--- read
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 05:52:38 PM
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 05:55:54 PM
what does english good, bad, in between?
WHAT
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 05:57:39 PM
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 05:59:05 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on February 05, 2021, 06:00:56 PM
TGN has also come up this round. I don't feel his posts are out of character, but his character is so random I honestly can't even guess if he's town or a wolf.
There's been a bit of discussion this round, but it seems to be along the same lines and I don't have any strong feelings at this point either way.
Moot: got super defensive when suspicion was thrown his way.My post was neither defensive or in response to 'suspicion thrown' my way. Ruguo just said I expanded a lot on a little for no good reason, and I legitimately wonder why people feel that way because it came up after D1 last game as well. Expanding a lot on a little is what everyone does on D1, so why is it odd that I do it?
Let it go, man. :PBut then how am I ever going to get the Royal Family badge?
If we were scumbuds, I wouldn't be advising him on proper conduct out in the open, I'd do it in PMs like I did the last time. At the very least, you can infer one of us isn't scum. Which I'll elaborate on later in the post (which I wrote before this, but you posted between when I started writing this and when I finished the first pass only to get told of 2 new replies, *sigh*).Why wouldn't you be? It'd be a great way for team wolves to distance from each other...he might die for his behaviour, you could then point out just what you're pointing out now: that you publicly advised him on proper conduct. Like I told TGN, I don't think that's the case at the moment, but I also don't think you advising him makes it impossible for both of you to be wolves either.
I still feel that Michi was the better lynch for D1 for the reasons I had presented. I unvoted him to prove I was willing to listen so that he would respond in detail and voted him again when his response still failed to sufficiently satisfy me. I apologize for the last minute unvote, it was rather poor form. However, you can tell that it was a genuine last moment decision because I unvoted instead of voting a vanity wagon and saving myself the mandatory task of voting someone today.You voted for him, then you didn't...you unvoted him because you trusted in the other players, yet you still feel he was the better lynch for D1, yet that was exactly what was going to happen until you unvoted him...
I got cold feet because of my own usual paranoia, but mostly because of the amount of players saying they were uncomfortable in his lynch. I trust in the players who have played with Michi longer than myself in reasoning behind his alignment. However, I still suspected him and wasn't being pinged about Hapi's innocence, so I left it to a coinflip and hoped for the best. Those who voted Hapi in the first place put her in the position to be lynched, I just didn't stand in its way. My actions one can argue have been the more genuine for being confusing.
I have to admit, I'm confused just reading your post.
Post by: Ruguo on February 05, 2021, 06:06:28 PM
Aww, Min doesn't like me anymore. That's sad. In my defense though, when have I ever scumhunted? I think I did one misguided attempt at attacking last game and a lot of waffling between the wifom.
Hey TGN, It's good to bring up past game in our defense, but do be careful that defending yourself or omgus voting isn't the only actions you contribute. I think the best way for you to absolve yourself would be to tell us how you're feeling about certain players, especially those of interest today. That currently seems to include You, BSR, Vro, Somewhat Michi, and I guess also me. Hooray, I'm interesting! I think Red could also be considered interesting if you wanna talk about that too.
I'd like to take a closer look at Sapph- something seems a bit off there. Now I could be misremembering, but I've come to expect longer and more of a...frustrated yet cheerful headvoice from him. I'm getting more of a blase feeling, and I don't remember if that's good or bad. So I guess I'll go ISO and see if anything else seems of at some point.
My post was neither defensive or in response to 'suspicion thrown' my way. Ruguo just said I expanded a lot on a little for no good reason, and I legitimately wonder why people feel that way because it came up after D1 last game as well. Expanding a lot on a little is what everyone does on D1, so why is it odd that I do it?
That's fair, I wasn't sussing you, just trying to connect to your shoes. You just have a tendency to pick out somewhat strange things compared to others, Moot. That's not bad.
That's about what I've got, yup.
Post by: Ruguo on February 05, 2021, 06:10:06 PM
Hey TGN, It's good to bring up past game in your defense,
It's supposed to be like that. Sorry.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 05, 2021, 06:11:42 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that one person I would love to hear from before the end of day is @Michi. It seems really odd that after being the main topic of discussion on D1 and being saved by Vro and RNG he's disappeared this last day, especially since I got the idea that he really wanted to be involved this game.
Post by: Ruguo on February 05, 2021, 06:19:37 PM
Yeah, Michi would be good to hear from. In his defense, I did drag him and Lau into one of my many midnight ideas that somehow is actually moving forward, so maybe he's been distracted, I dunno. I'm not Michi, but I will take fault where fault is due.
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 06:20:01 PM
Post by: Ruguo on February 05, 2021, 06:25:21 PM
what does EBWOP mean?
Edit By Way Of Post
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 06:32:07 PM
thank uwhat does EBWOP mean?
Edit By Way Of Post
Post by: Laurentus on February 05, 2021, 06:47:18 PM
@Vroendal
@Anubhav Ghosh
@Michi
@BraveSirRobin
@TGN
@Ogun of Valeria
@Alexander Valentine
@Eastern New England
Post by: Laurentus on February 05, 2021, 06:48:21 PM
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 06:51:50 PM
Reminder to all the following players that failure to vote today will result in either being replaced, or removed from the game.last game I skipped but
@Vroendal
@Anubhav Ghosh
@Michi
@BraveSirRobin
@TGN
@Ogun of Valeria
@Alexander Valentine
@Eastern New England
Vote: Sapphiron
for voting me because I am "using" his old strat even though I never saw it before :)
Post by: Laurentus on February 05, 2021, 06:58:17 PM
Ruguo - 1 (Minish)
Vroendal - 2 (Gerrick, Doc)
Sapphiron - 1 (TGN)
TGN - 2 (Sapphiron, Cozmikrae)
Post by: Doc on February 05, 2021, 07:15:15 PM
Unless you're scum and at risk of inactivity lynch. Then please don't vote. I'll take a freebie any day.
Now @mentioning everyone who hasn't yet voted (except Moot, who gets a pass solely because he was in #werewolf at the time I said I was gonna do this and he's thus gotten his 'kindly vote now or be seen as suspicious' alert).
@Ruguo @Red Mones @Vroendal @Anubhav Ghosh @Wischland @Michi @Imaginative Kane @BraveSirRobin @NyghtOwl @Melehan @Ogun of Valeria @Alexander Valentine @Eastern New England
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 07:22:55 PM
Minish's wagon breakdown post
I'm not entirely certain scum was on either of the wagons yesterday especially if they were town vs town. If Michi happens to flip scum that's a different story, but as it was scum could have mostly sat back d1 and not made any waves. However, I am gonna try to do some sort of wagon analysis here.
There were 8 people within the tied wagons. There were also 8 people who didn't vote at all.
On Hapi's wagon was NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, and Cozmikrae.
I feel good about NyghtOwl. Cozmikrae is looking okay to me as well. So let's narrow this one down to Melehan and Doc.
On Michi's wagon was Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, and Minish.
I know I'm town. Ruguo I've felt iffy about. Wischland and Gerrick I'm null on.
And then you have the 8 non voters.
Vroendal, Anubhav Ghosh, Michi, BraveSirRobin, TGN, Ogun of Valeria, Alexander Valentine, and Eastern New England.
Alexander hasn't posted at all so gonna remove him from this. Michi surprisingly didn't vote despite having a decent wagon on him. Anubhav Ghosh just subbed in so he gets a pass for now. So let's remove Alexander and Anubhav from the equation with this group.
That leaves Vro, Michi, BSR, TGN, Ogun, and ENE. All of which have posted to some extent. Vro and Michi are interesting due to just the focus around them d1. And the fact that Vro pushed a wagon and backed out last minute to cause a tie. Ogun seemed a bit iffy to me d1. TGN has just been messing around. And BSR and ENE haven't said much that I remember.
So removing either the inactive or the ones I feel decent about you have Melehan, Doc, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Ogun, Vro, Michi, TGN, BSR, and ENE.
Melehan I don't know that well but I did like her trying to get reactions d1, and I dunno if she's wild enough to draw that much attention to herself as scum with the rp aspect. Doc I haven't felt any real suspicion towards I don't think but I also don't think I read him well last game. Either way I don't think I'd like to pursue him today. Gerrick and Wisch are in similar boats. And BSR and ENE I don't feel like I have enough to go on.
So let's narrow this further to Ruguo, Ogun, Vro, Michi, and TGN.
Vro I wanted to town read but to be honest some of the things he's doing reminds me of scum me or just have some scum motivation so I'm getting a little iffy. I'll need to relook at Spongebob mafia to see how he played there. Though I do think it was maybe more reserved than here.
Michi would be a decent direction to see if it were a scum vs town wagon because that would throw some more sus on Vro. And look decent for the others voting Michi.
Anyways I need to head to bed soon so I'll do more with this stream of consciousness later.
Personally, I'm not being overly pinged by Silv's post content, so if possible I would like Minish and Kane to expand on what they specifically find suspicious. I would also like Ruguo to respond more fully to our accusations.
I'm not seeing what I would define as great wagons today, but in a Ruguo or TGN scenario I'm more scared of what Ruguo could be doing behind the scenes. I should mention that Sapph does feel off to me, if Ruguo flips town I have the expectation that he will engage in this game much, much more. I just see it as more possible to lynch Ruguo than Sapph today with the limited information we have.
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 07:30:30 PM
I do hope we get to hear that list before eod!
@Vroendal
I don't have anything concrete on Silver, it's mostly just that his tone d1 didn't align with what I expect of town Silver's tone and that he seems to be throwing suspicion on just about everyone in a way that looks like he's just looking for something to stick.
His latest post is more in the tone I expect from town Silver though. I mostly wanted to try to apply some pressure to see if I could see that town Silver come out.
Post by: Doc on February 05, 2021, 07:39:43 PM
Of the players with a wagon on them right now, I will likely end up voting Ruguo because they were on a wagon yesterday which is becoming less likely to be revealed as a wolf as Michi continues to not engage.This single statement, more than any other, reassures me that Vro and TGN are likely to be scumbuds - paired, of course, with the fact that despite saying this, Vro has not yet come out and actually carried out his desire to vote for Ruguo.
If nobody else voted right now, it'd be a coinflip for either Vro or TGN dying. This is obviously to Vro's disadvantage; after all, all he needs to do is vote TGN and he's safe. He could probably even get townie points for doing so, since being third on the pile that lynches a wolf is not a bad look. But the fact that this prospect barely seems to cross his mind (except as further comparison with Ruguo/Silv) suggests that both the wagons we've got now are on scum, and he's trying to avoid that by making it 'three' 'viable' wagons and hoping that the Ruguo one is one of those that takes off.
I do hope we get to hear that list before eod!Sure, here you go: if either TGN or Vro gets lynched and they flip scum, lynch the other, then lynch Michi.
Post by: Doc on February 05, 2021, 07:42:22 PM
This is obviously to Vro's disadvantage; after all, all he needs to do is vote TGN and he's safe. He could probably even get townie points for doing so, since being third on the pile that lynches a wolf is not a bad look.Quick EBWOP: This scenario assumes they are both scum. If TGN is not, it still doesn't automatically mean Vro is by default scum, since 'voting to save your own life' is NAI. But the fact that he doesn't want to do this suggests that they're scumbuds.
Post by: Minish on February 05, 2021, 07:48:31 PM
I could get behind a TGN lynch to see what that causes. He's not been helping town at all and has instead been doing joke votes or votes with no substance behind them. He's also in my list of people I narrowed down from wagon stuff d1.
I do think that being scumbuds with someone gives you better insight into how they play as well. So Doc could have a better read of TGN here.
Unvote
Vote: TGN
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 07:53:54 PM
My reasoning for not yet voting is that I am quite aware there are a number of hours left in this day phase. My statement about lynching Ruguo isn't so much of a desire as a conclusion I expect I will forced to reach. I would like to hear more from Ruguo and Kane before I make my voting decision final. We have a little over 9 hours left, I don't see the rush to vote right at this moment, I have answered your question/threat to vote with a response. Debating over me/TGN scum teams with you will likely result in unnecessary WIFOM arguments, I do not wish to branch to that topic. I will say however that my greater lack of desire to lynch TGN has already been expressed, I think it is more unlikely for him to be lynched at this point, I have been unable to read him due to his chaotic posting style, and your suggestion that by voting TGN I would get townie points seems to depend on my exact knowledge of his role, it stands to reason that I am not voting him to get townie points because I do not, in fact, know his role.Of the players with a wagon on them right now, I will likely end up voting Ruguo because they were on a wagon yesterday which is becoming less likely to be revealed as a wolf as Michi continues to not engage.This single statement, more than any other, reassures me that Vro and TGN are likely to be scumbuds - paired, of course, with the fact that despite saying this, Vro has not yet come out and actually carried out his desire to vote for Ruguo.
If nobody else voted right now, it'd be a coinflip for either Vro or TGN dying. This is obviously to Vro's disadvantage; after all, all he needs to do is vote TGN and he's safe. He could probably even get townie points for doing so, since being third on the pile that lynches a wolf is not a bad look. But the fact that this prospect barely seems to cross his mind (except as further comparison with Ruguo/Silv) suggests that both the wagons we've got now are on scum, and he's trying to avoid that by making it 'three' 'viable' wagons and hoping that the Ruguo one is one of those that takes off.I do hope we get to hear that list before eod!Sure, here you go: if either TGN or Vro gets lynched and they flip scum, lynch the other, then lynch Michi.
Post by: Ruguo on February 05, 2021, 08:02:05 PM
I do not know how well he respond to pressure, so I'm gonna do this:
Vote: TGN
This vote is will remain in place until he posts something of useful content. We've tried to give him direction, and though I really want to keep him alive so he can learn, he's got to demonstrate the willingness to learn in the first place.
If he fails to provide me with anything, literally anything that could be construed as useful, insightful, or contributing to the game, I will be okay with lynching him as the info he could provide based on how others have interacted with him is more useful to me than him as a player.
Post by: Melehan on February 05, 2021, 08:13:49 PM
Vote: Sapphiron
At this point, I don't have any specific suspicions of Sapph; I'm just aiming for a third wagon, and Ruguo pings me as less scummy than Sapph.
With that said, I don't want to lynch either Vro or Minish because they have been the main drivers of Town discussion the past two days. I also keep oscillating between alignments with Red, but I did find the first post that linked Red and Minish together (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156048#msg156048) while combing through, so we'll see how I feel once I'm done.
@Minish - It's not as contradictory as you're making it out to be. When Red does something I think is scummy (like omitting himself from consideration related to the Hapi lynch), I poke him. And that is how we get the situation where, while quite a few of his actions are scummy, his reactions pass as Town.
Post by: Melehan on February 05, 2021, 08:14:46 PM
If he fails to provide me with anything, literally anything that could be construed as useful, insightful, or contributing to the game, I will be okay with lynching him as the info he could provide based on how others have interacted with him is more useful to me than him as a player.Ouch. XD
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 08:16:53 PM
ok...
Unvote
Vote: TGN
I go out wuth honor
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 08:17:50 PM
damnIs this your confession then?
ok...
Unvote
Vote: TGN
I go out wuth honor
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 08:19:45 PM
but waking up at 6 am to see a page of post isn't how I want to continue school days
Post by: Laurentus on February 05, 2021, 08:20:19 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 08:20:52 PM
Vote - TGN
in that case. That sounds like a confession to me.
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 08:22:22 PM
but I cant say
Post by: Laurentus on February 05, 2021, 08:26:51 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807346379680776232/unknown.png)
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 05, 2021, 08:28:01 PM
Pretty self explanatory from my reasoning yesterday
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 08:35:08 PM
for cordes die
--------------------
or
DO IT EGGHEAD, do your job
Spoiler
bo2 vibes
Post by: Ruguo on February 05, 2021, 08:41:16 PM
it's not
but I cant say
Dude. Why can't you say? I know claiming is illegal, but you can go "here's a reason you shouldn't vote me, how about we look at XYZ over here instead?"
Grrr. Argh.
In my heart of hearts, I don't want you to be scum because that's jut bad luck two games in a row. I don't want to kill you because you have potential under all the unintelligible screaming and random votes. But I can't help you if you won't help yourself.
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 08:42:46 PM
did you not read my post aboveit's not
but I cant say
Dude. Why can't you say? I know claiming is illegal, but you can go "here's a reason you shouldn't vote me, how about we look at XYZ over here instead?"
Grrr. Argh.
In my heart of hearts, I don't want you to be scum because that's jut bad luck two games in a row. I don't want to kill you because you have potential under all the unintelligible screaming and random votes. But I can't help you if you won't help yourself.
Post by: Ruguo on February 05, 2021, 08:45:13 PM
I just want you to try. Let us know how we can help.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 05, 2021, 08:46:07 PM
While Vro is still hitting my vibes wrong I can see the reasoning behind his actions now. And our discussion has settled my nerves a bit. But he's still at the top of my list.
BSR is still up there as well, simply because, that's how I play town is a rather weak defense on its own.
But I still don't really feel sure enough to make a vote.
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 08:47:03 PM
the more I think about it, you are voting because in the early game
WHERE WE HAVE NO PROOF OF ANY SCUM I make joke votes
for D2 I made one with Moot but other than that I did nothing
if you have any other proof against me I will debunk
try your best
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 08:47:28 PM
I get that waking up to pages of posts is overwhelming. And we can teach you ways to work past that.sorry just saw it :P
I just want you to try. Let us know how we can help.
look down
Post by: Laurentus on February 05, 2021, 08:49:05 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807352075771183144/unknown.png)
Post by: Melehan on February 05, 2021, 08:53:37 PM
UnvoteI don't know about anyone else, but I'm rooting for you, TGN.
the more I think about it, you are voting because in the early game
WHERE WE HAVE NO PROOF OF ANY SCUM I make joke votes
for D2 I made one with Moot but other than that I did nothing
if you have any other proof against me I will debunk
try your best
CONVINCE ME YOU ARE TOWN!!!
Post by: Laurentus on February 05, 2021, 08:54:24 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807353320096006144/unknown.png)
Post by: Doc on February 05, 2021, 08:56:23 PM
In my heart of hearts, I don't want you to be scum because that's jut bad luck two games in a row. I don't want to kill you because you have potential under all the unintelligible screaming and random votes. But I can't help you if you won't help yourself.
if he is scum two games in a row, moot may have been right and i'll have to adopt him after all
the Scum Curse of the House [redacted]
Post by: Ruguo on February 05, 2021, 08:57:36 PM
Unvote
the more I think about it, you are voting because in the early game
WHERE WE HAVE NO PROOF OF ANY SCUM I make joke votes
for D2 I made one with Moot but other than that I did nothing
if you have any other proof against me I will debunk
try your best
Okay. I can work with this. Yes, a lot of us made jokes in the early game. The thing was, we didn't really continue them later. And we take the time to explain why we are voting for people, and iirc, you didn't really do that when you voted Moot, it was more of an omgus for saying doc should adopt me vote, which isn't very helpful.
The thing isn't that we have proof against you, it's a number of people have interacted with you and tried to get anything out of you, protected you, and all we've gotten as feedback is more jokes and two line posts that don't help us rule you out.
If I had to put a finger on why this wagon is a thing, it's because you just don't offer up anything that helps you shed suspicion, so it keeps piling onto you until you're a mound of reactionary information.
So I ask you one more time: Opinions on the following players:
Vro, Me, BSR, Sapph
And optionally: Red, Michi
And to hold up my part of this: if you don't want to focus on reading a lot of pages to catch up, think about a player who rubs you the wrong way and just look at their recent posts. Post a few thoughts about them, and go about your day. When you come back to the thread, reply to things concerning you in at least one full sentence, then focus on the last five posts- you can get a lot of information in a few posts just by comparing how they were acting last time you remember seeing them to the current point, and often players will summarize things that you can simply decide to agree or disagree with. Even having a simple "I agree with XYZ because they are thinking along the same lines as me" helps us know where you stand.
You can do this, TGN.
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 08:59:24 PM
last game I didn't talk as much because I had something to fear
IF I WAS A WOLF, WHY WOULD I BE THIS CONFIDENT!?
irl I am shy and don't speak out as much, and my defence is not the best
BUT I WILL NOT GO OUT UNDER FALSE CLAIMS
"I am innocent of everything I am accused of"
If I am to go out, I will go out innocent
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 09:02:04 PM
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 09:03:50 PM
TGN, if you don't want to go out under false claims, and were that confident, and were confident in your own innocence, why then did you vote yourself?if you know you know the reference
do you have 90 minutes
in short: I have no clue
I guess I didn't want to get distracted in class
but now the class has ended
so I posted "that"
Post by: Ruguo on February 05, 2021, 09:10:05 PM
Another way to not die is to run around screaming "I'M INNOCENT". This may sound like stupid advice, but a lot of players, especially new wolves, will freeze up upon being the leading wagon. I'm guilty of this as well. You'd be surprised how much good being active and constantly saying you're not the one they're looking for can do.@TGN - I get I am the one that posted this advice, but, uh, you gotta combine it with some of the other advice as well.
You did good by asking me why I thought you were sus and offering to debunk our thoughts, but now you need to keep pushing forward. Ask questions! All the questions! But don't forget to answer questions too. I still require the original requirements of my vote to be fulfilled before unvoting.
Post by: Melehan on February 05, 2021, 09:10:26 PM
In all seriousness, BSR is a known experienced player whose rationale for why he's Town is "because I'm playing like how I play Town" and for voting Vro is "because I already went over the reasons yesterday". If those of you who wanted to lynch TGN because he was unhelpful are serious about going after someone who is unhelpful to town, BSR is a stronger candidate.
Post by: Melehan on February 05, 2021, 09:12:33 PM
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 09:15:08 PM
why did you vote me so soon after @Cozmikeray (sorry again)
Post by: cozmikrae on February 05, 2021, 09:29:06 PM
Spoiler
Unvote
the more I think about it, you are voting because in the early game
WHERE WE HAVE NO PROOF OF ANY SCUM I make joke votes
for D2 I made one with Moot but other than that I did nothing
if you have any other proof against me I will debunk
try your best
Okay. I can work with this. Yes, a lot of us made jokes in the early game. The thing was, we didn't really continue them later. And we take the time to explain why we are voting for people, and iirc, you didn't really do that when you voted Moot, it was more of an omgus for saying doc should adopt me vote, which isn't very helpful.
The thing isn't that we have proof against you, it's a number of people have interacted with you and tried to get anything out of you, protected you, and all we've gotten as feedback is more jokes and two line posts that don't help us rule you out.
If I had to put a finger on why this wagon is a thing, it's because you just don't offer up anything that helps you shed suspicion, so it keeps piling onto you until you're a mound of reactionary information.
So I ask you one more time: Opinions on the following players:
Vro, Me, BSR, Sapph
And optionally: Red, Michi
And to hold up my part of this: if you don't want to focus on reading a lot of pages to catch up, think about a player who rubs you the wrong way and just look at their recent posts. Post a few thoughts about them, and go about your day. When you come back to the thread, reply to things concerning you in at least one full sentence, then focus on the last five posts- you can get a lot of information in a few posts just by comparing how they were acting last time you remember seeing them to the current point, and often players will summarize things that you can simply decide to agree or disagree with. Even having a simple "I agree with XYZ because they are thinking along the same lines as me" helps us know where you stand.
You can do this, TGN.
Hey @TGN I agree with this. I will also unvote for you if you can offer us something about your feels on any other players. You’ll be going out with your piece left unsaid. That’s not fair. But you gotta help us out.
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 09:54:24 PM
it's my first list so... hereSpoilerUnvote
the more I think about it, you are voting because in the early game
WHERE WE HAVE NO PROOF OF ANY SCUM I make joke votes
for D2 I made one with Moot but other than that I did nothing
if you have any other proof against me I will debunk
try your best
Okay. I can work with this. Yes, a lot of us made jokes in the early game. The thing was, we didn't really continue them later. And we take the time to explain why we are voting for people, and iirc, you didn't really do that when you voted Moot, it was more of an omgus for saying doc should adopt me vote, which isn't very helpful.
The thing isn't that we have proof against you, it's a number of people have interacted with you and tried to get anything out of you, protected you, and all we've gotten as feedback is more jokes and two line posts that don't help us rule you out.
If I had to put a finger on why this wagon is a thing, it's because you just don't offer up anything that helps you shed suspicion, so it keeps piling onto you until you're a mound of reactionary information.
So I ask you one more time: Opinions on the following players:
Vro, Me, BSR, Sapph
And optionally: Red, Michi
And to hold up my part of this: if you don't want to focus on reading a lot of pages to catch up, think about a player who rubs you the wrong way and just look at their recent posts. Post a few thoughts about them, and go about your day. When you come back to the thread, reply to things concerning you in at least one full sentence, then focus on the last five posts- you can get a lot of information in a few posts just by comparing how they were acting last time you remember seeing them to the current point, and often players will summarize things that you can simply decide to agree or disagree with. Even having a simple "I agree with XYZ because they are thinking along the same lines as me" helps us know where you stand.
You can do this, TGN.
Hey @TGN I agree with this. I will also unvote for you if you can offer us something about your feels on any other players. You’ll be going out with your piece left unsaid. That’s not fair. But you gotta help us out.
also, I will put aside all votes against me
Spoiler
Town core/leans
Ruguo: seems very helpful
Vro: Vro is the host right?
Doc: gives reasons for actions
Wintermoot: not very active but when on, he gives very good post
Cozmikrae: New player with very good logic
Sapphiron: like Ruguo
Null
Gerrik
Anubhav Ghosh
Wischland
ENE
Alexander Valentine
Ogun: for everyone up above in null they haven't posted, don't post often, or it doesn't feel like they post
BSR: lots of people throwing out sus against him, hasn't rung any bells
everyone else
Scum lead
only D2, can't think of anyone who rings a bell
Ruguo: seems very helpful
Vro: Vro is the host right?
Doc: gives reasons for actions
Wintermoot: not very active but when on, he gives very good post
Cozmikrae: New player with very good logic
Sapphiron: like Ruguo
Null
Gerrik
Anubhav Ghosh
Wischland
ENE
Alexander Valentine
Ogun: for everyone up above in null they haven't posted, don't post often, or it doesn't feel like they post
BSR: lots of people throwing out sus against him, hasn't rung any bells
everyone else
Scum lead
only D2, can't think of anyone who rings a bell
Post by: Melehan on February 05, 2021, 10:03:03 PM
What about me?it's my first list so... hereSpoilerUnvote
the more I think about it, you are voting because in the early game
WHERE WE HAVE NO PROOF OF ANY SCUM I make joke votes
for D2 I made one with Moot but other than that I did nothing
if you have any other proof against me I will debunk
try your best
Okay. I can work with this. Yes, a lot of us made jokes in the early game. The thing was, we didn't really continue them later. And we take the time to explain why we are voting for people, and iirc, you didn't really do that when you voted Moot, it was more of an omgus for saying doc should adopt me vote, which isn't very helpful.
The thing isn't that we have proof against you, it's a number of people have interacted with you and tried to get anything out of you, protected you, and all we've gotten as feedback is more jokes and two line posts that don't help us rule you out.
If I had to put a finger on why this wagon is a thing, it's because you just don't offer up anything that helps you shed suspicion, so it keeps piling onto you until you're a mound of reactionary information.
So I ask you one more time: Opinions on the following players:
Vro, Me, BSR, Sapph
And optionally: Red, Michi
And to hold up my part of this: if you don't want to focus on reading a lot of pages to catch up, think about a player who rubs you the wrong way and just look at their recent posts. Post a few thoughts about them, and go about your day. When you come back to the thread, reply to things concerning you in at least one full sentence, then focus on the last five posts- you can get a lot of information in a few posts just by comparing how they were acting last time you remember seeing them to the current point, and often players will summarize things that you can simply decide to agree or disagree with. Even having a simple "I agree with XYZ because they are thinking along the same lines as me" helps us know where you stand.
You can do this, TGN.
Hey @TGN I agree with this. I will also unvote for you if you can offer us something about your feels on any other players. You’ll be going out with your piece left unsaid. That’s not fair. But you gotta help us out.
also, I will put aside all votes against meSpoilerTown core/leans
Ruguo: seems very helpful
Vro: Vro is the host right?
Doc: gives reasons for actions
Wintermoot: not very active but when on, he gives very good post
Cozmikrae: New player with very good logic
Sapphiron: like Ruguo
Null
Gerrik
Anubhav Ghosh
Wischland
ENE
Alexander Valentine
Ogun: for everyone up above in null they haven't posted, don't post often, or it doesn't feel like they post
BSR: lots of people throwing out sus against him, hasn't rung any bells
everyone else
Scum lead
only D2, can't think of anyone who rings a bell
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 10:04:46 PM
it's my first list so... hereI am not the host, Laurentus is the host.
also, I will put aside all votes against meSpoilerTown core/leans
Ruguo: seems very helpful
Vro: Vro is the host right?
Doc: gives reasons for actions
Wintermoot: not very active but when on, he gives very good post
Cozmikrae: New player with very good logic
Sapphiron: like Ruguo
Null
Gerrik
Anubhav Ghosh
Wischland
ENE
Alexander Valentine
Ogun: for everyone up above in null they haven't posted, don't post often, or it doesn't feel like they post
BSR: lots of people throwing out sus against him, hasn't rung any bells
everyone else
Scum lead
only D2, can't think of anyone who rings a bell
If you think Sapphrion is helpful and you're town leaning him, then why are you voting him?
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 10:16:57 PM
basically everyone else including you @Melehan
and I only voted Sapphiron because he voted me
Post by: Melehan on February 05, 2021, 11:05:42 PM
First up, a detailed voting list!
Spoiler
Hapi votes Red Mones (Red 1)
Red votes Hapi (Red 1, Hapi 1)
Mele votes Hapi (Red 1, Hapi 2)
Cozmik votes Red (Red 2, Hapi 2)
Nyght votes Moot (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1)
Ruguo votes Doc (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Doc 1)
Sapph votes Vro (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1)
Gerrick votes Michi (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 1)
TGN votes Sapph (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 1, Sapph 1)
Red votes Mele (Red 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 1, Sapph 1, Mele 1)
Red unvotes (Red 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 1, Sapph 1)
Vro votes Michi (Red 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 2, Sapph 1)
Ruguo votes Michi (Red 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 3, Sapph 1)
TGN "Unvote Michi" (Red 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4)
Nyght votes Hapi (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4)
Kane votes No Lynch (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, NO 1)
Hapi votes Cozmik (Red 1, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, NO 1, Cozmik 1)
Doc votes Hapi (Red 1, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, NO 1, Cozmik 1)
TGN unvotes (Red 1, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 3, NO 1, Cozmik 1)
Wisch votes Michi (Red 1, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, NO 1, Cozmik 1)
Kane votes BSR (Red 1, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, Cozmik 1, BSR 1)
Minish votes Michi (Red 1, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1)
TGN skips vote (Red 1, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Moot votes Red (Red 2, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Minish votes Red (Red 3, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Minish votes for Michi (Red 2, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Cozmik votes Hapi (Red 1, Hapi 4, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Vro unvotes (Red 1, Hapi 4, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Vro votes Michi (Red 1, Hapi 4, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Red votes Ruguo (Red 1, Hapi 4, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1, Ruguo 1)
Vro unvotes (Red 1, Hapi 4, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1, Ruguo 1)
Red votes Hapi (Red 1, Hapi 1)
Mele votes Hapi (Red 1, Hapi 2)
Cozmik votes Red (Red 2, Hapi 2)
Nyght votes Moot (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1)
Ruguo votes Doc (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Doc 1)
Sapph votes Vro (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1)
Gerrick votes Michi (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 1)
TGN votes Sapph (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 1, Sapph 1)
Red votes Mele (Red 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 1, Sapph 1, Mele 1)
Red unvotes (Red 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 1, Sapph 1)
Vro votes Michi (Red 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Doc 1, Vro 1, Michi 2, Sapph 1)
Ruguo votes Michi (Red 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 3, Sapph 1)
TGN "Unvote Michi" (Red 2, Hapi 1, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4)
Nyght votes Hapi (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4)
Kane votes No Lynch (Red 2, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, NO 1)
Hapi votes Cozmik (Red 1, Hapi 2, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, NO 1, Cozmik 1)
Doc votes Hapi (Red 1, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, NO 1, Cozmik 1)
TGN unvotes (Red 1, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 3, NO 1, Cozmik 1)
Wisch votes Michi (Red 1, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, NO 1, Cozmik 1)
Kane votes BSR (Red 1, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, Cozmik 1, BSR 1)
Minish votes Michi (Red 1, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1)
TGN skips vote (Red 1, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Moot votes Red (Red 2, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Minish votes Red (Red 3, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Minish votes for Michi (Red 2, Hapi 3, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Cozmik votes Hapi (Red 1, Hapi 4, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Vro unvotes (Red 1, Hapi 4, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Vro votes Michi (Red 1, Hapi 4, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1)
Red votes Ruguo (Red 1, Hapi 4, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 5, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1, Ruguo 1)
Vro unvotes (Red 1, Hapi 4, Moot 1, Michi 3, Vro 1, Michi 4, Cozmik 1, BSR 1, SKIP 1, Ruguo 1)
Just off the bat, Minish's voting history appears the most suspicious, followed by Vro's. (I'm ruling out TGN for the moment because he is chaos incarnate as far as we know.)
The train on Michi notably took on steam with Ruguo's vote (in part thanks to TGN). This makes Minish's voting pattern even more interesting.
And a link to all the D1 read lists!
Spoiler
Minish town reads Nyght (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg155876#msg155876)
Minish looks at Michi meta and town reads Vro (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg155898#msg155898)
Wisch questions TGN and reads Vro and Michi (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg155911#msg155911)
Ruguo reads Mele as Town (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg155936#msg155936)
Mele's first Reads List (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg155940#msg155940)
Kane votes BSR, reads (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156027#msg156027)
Minish votes Michi, reads (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156036#msg156036)
Moot votes Red, reads (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156040#msg156040)
Minish replies to Vro, reads (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156051#msg156051)
Doc reads the voting logs and brings up powerwolfing (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156061#msg156061)
Ruguo replies to Vro with reads (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156083#msg156083)
Kane explains his meta, reads (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156101#msg156101)
Gerrick posts his Reads List (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156108#msg156108)
Minish looks at Michi meta and town reads Vro (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg155898#msg155898)
Wisch questions TGN and reads Vro and Michi (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg155911#msg155911)
Ruguo reads Mele as Town (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg155936#msg155936)
Mele's first Reads List (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg155940#msg155940)
Kane votes BSR, reads (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156027#msg156027)
Minish votes Michi, reads (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156036#msg156036)
Moot votes Red, reads (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156040#msg156040)
Minish replies to Vro, reads (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156051#msg156051)
Doc reads the voting logs and brings up powerwolfing (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156061#msg156061)
Ruguo replies to Vro with reads (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156083#msg156083)
Kane explains his meta, reads (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156101#msg156101)
Gerrick posts his Reads List (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156108#msg156108)
What we can conclude from these reads: everyone reads Nyght as Town, which makes her a prime target for the wolves.
Cozmik is the runner up in Towniness.
Post by: Eastern New England on February 05, 2021, 11:15:26 PM
Various Quotes
So outside of the lurkers the let's see
ENE: so he's pretty much just yucking it up. Which could just mean that he's looking to have some fun. Or he could be deflecting any attention away as a classical class clown.
I'm failing to see the parts where I am "yucking it up".
I am a generally lurky player.
ENE- hello, welcome back. Please contribute more today maybe, or I'm just going to assume you're a lurky scum.
I'm still wary of any of the lurkers.Then you'll be pleased to hear that I am not from New England.ENE is major sus because people from New England are a bunch of assholes
Well, now is as good a time as any to update.You seem to have forgotten me in the top row of your sheet.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807346379680776232/unknown.png)
Vote: Eastern New England
Post by: Vroendal on February 05, 2021, 11:19:06 PM
You are listed in the bottom row of Lau's sheet.In order to avoid an inactivity lynch, I'llVarious QuotesSo outside of the lurkers the let's see
ENE: so he's pretty much just yucking it up. Which could just mean that he's looking to have some fun. Or he could be deflecting any attention away as a classical class clown.
I'm failing to see the parts where I am "yucking it up".I am a generally lurky player.
ENE- hello, welcome back. Please contribute more today maybe, or I'm just going to assume you're a lurky scum.I'm still wary of any of the lurkers.Then you'll be pleased to hear that I am not from New England.ENE is major sus because people from New England are a bunch of assholesWell, now is as good a time as any to update.You seem to have forgotten me in the top row of your sheet.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807346379680776232/unknown.png)
Vote: Eastern New England
Do you have any reads or contributions to make on the state of the game, possible links, or any reads on scum-like behavior? Anything you think we should know that no one has pointed out?
Your post shows that you've read through the thread, do you have anything to state other than essentially saying you're present?
Post by: Melehan on February 05, 2021, 11:25:45 PM
Spoiler
Cozmik - 2
Doc - 1
Gerrick - 1
Hapi - 2
Kane - 2
Mele - 1
Minish - 3
Moot - 1
Nyght - 2
Red - 4
Ruguo - 2
Sapph - 1
TGN - 4
Vro - 5
Wisch - 1
Doc - 1
Gerrick - 1
Hapi - 2
Kane - 2
Mele - 1
Minish - 3
Moot - 1
Nyght - 2
Red - 4
Ruguo - 2
Sapph - 1
TGN - 4
Vro - 5
Wisch - 1
And those who started vanity wagons:
Spoiler
Hapi
Ruguo
Sapph
TGN
Ruguo
Sapph
TGN
I excluded Nyght, Gerrick, and Kane from the Vanity Wagon list because they provided gameplay-based rationalization for their votes.
With that said, Minish and Vro have the most suspicious voting behavior overall due to the timing of their vote changes. Red appears less suspicious to me because after the reactionary flip-flopping early in the round, he waited for more info to come to light before placing his final vote and sticking with it. Ruguo, on the other hand, started a vanity wagon and acted as the pivotal pile point for the Michi Wagon, which makes me very suspicious.
Based on the vote analysis and the fact I don't currently want to lynch Vro or Minish because they generate a lot of discussion, I'm leaning more towards Ruguo being scum. Sapph still gives me scum vibes, but there's nothing concrete in the voting logs, so I'm switching my vote to Ruguo.
Vote: Ruguo
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 11:43:05 PM
Post by: Doc on February 05, 2021, 11:50:23 PM
TGN - 5 (Silv/Ruguo, Vroendal, Sapphiron, Minish, Cozmik)
Vroendal - 3 (Me, Gerrick, BSR
Sapphiron - 1 (Mel)
ENE - 1 (Self-vote)
Alexander, Michi, TGN, and Ogun are all up for an inactivity lynch if they don't vote today.
Likewise for Vro and ENE if they unvote.
Amitav, Kane, Nyght, Red, Wintermoot, and Wischland still haven't voted but aren't at IL risk.
if I skip again will I get lynched?Yes. As stated above, you're on the chopping block for inactivity lynch.
Post by: TGN on February 05, 2021, 11:55:48 PM
Vote: Doc
I might get lynched anyway but if not then this vote will save me
nothing personal, sorry doc...
we are cool right?
Post by: Wintermoot on February 05, 2021, 11:56:37 PM
I can't vote for TGN because at least for now I feel his behaviour is more immature than suspicious, and this just feels like similar reason to what people went with when they voted for Hapi: that he's too chaotic and not helpful to town. That doesn't leave too many options left in my mind. I would expect Sapph to do more in a game than just vote and leave for the day, but that isn't enough to vote for him. Vro has actually done something suspicious...still the most out of place thing in the game to me.
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 12:02:01 AM
In addition to the post Vro made linking Red and Minish together (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156048#msg156048), I found it very interesting how Red had a wagon forming on him early D1 that essentially dissolved. And yet, even as Minish seemed determined to cast suspicion on Red and get a viable third wagon going, she was simultaneously distancing herself from actually voting for Red.
Minish hops onto the Red Wagon after Moot. (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156042#msg156042)
Minish teases Vro with a link to Moot. (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156051#msg156051)
Minish backs off sussing Red. (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156053#msg156053)
Minish denies the Moot connection, noting that she doesn't play nice with her scumbuds. (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156057#msg156057)
Minish continues advocating for a third wagon while distancing herself from sussing Red specifically. (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156062#msg156062)
Minish switches to Michi as the 5th vote on the Michi Wagon. (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156086#msg156086)
What this indicates to me is that either Minish is a Wolf and Red is Town, or both Minish and Red are Wolves and Minish was looking to cement her Town Cred by bussing Red. Minish at that point in the game was pretty unanimously being read as Town, and what better way to cement that than to be seen voting for a Wolf Wagon other players had abandoned?
Additionally, if Michi is actually Town as I suspect, Minish's switching to be the 5th vote on the Michi Wagon would take out one Town early without putting too much sus on her because the general consensus of Town was that "Michi is Sus" and Minish had convinced most of the talkative Town to read her as Town.
Combined with how Doc, Vro, and I all suspect at least one powerwolf in this game and how Ruguo admitted to being unable to discern between Town Minish and Scum Minish, I'm beginning to strongly suspect that Minish is our resident powerwolf. Especially considering the clash Minish had with Vro earlier today over Vro objecting to Town giving only their Top Town Read.
There are other smaller things, like Minish being certain that the Wolves did NOT pull a NKN1 and the Doc confusion that also nudge me towards "Minish is SCUM", but as it stands, I'm seeing links between Minish and Red, Ruguo, and Vro. There are also weaker links between Minish and Moot and Doc.
How many of those links are manufactured/incidental, and whether or not Minish is a Wolf, remains to be seen since this is only D2.
EOD and tonight will be interesting.
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 12:03:05 AM
Votecount at present isI switched my vote to Ruguo.
TGN - 5 (Silv/Ruguo, Vroendal, Sapphiron, Minish, Cozmik)
Vroendal - 3 (Me, Gerrick, BSR
Sapphiron - 1 (Mel)
ENE - 1 (Self-vote)
Alexander, Michi, TGN, and Ogun are all up for an inactivity lynch if they don't vote today.
Likewise for Vro and ENE if they unvote.
Amitav, Kane, Nyght, Red, Wintermoot, and Wischland still haven't voted but aren't at IL risk.if I skip again will I get lynched?Yes. As stated above, you're on the chopping block for inactivity lynch.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 06, 2021, 12:04:46 AM
Based on TGN’s reads list. He feels less sus and more chaotic town. So... I guess,
Vote Vroendal
based on my prior reads list.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 06, 2021, 12:14:40 AM
Vote Vroendal
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 12:23:21 AM
(https://pm1.narvii.com/6490/3e8dac0e2143cd2ee06b1a1637d4bc253bf3d498_hq.jpg)
Post by: Doc on February 06, 2021, 12:24:57 AM
I switched my vote to Ruguo.Oops, missed that, thanks for the catch.
Updatedest count:
Votecount at present is
Vroendal - 5 (Me, Gerrick, BSR, Cozmikrae, Nyght)
TGN - 4 (Silv/Ruguo, Vroendal, Sapphiron, Minish)
Ruguo - 1 (Mel)
ENE - 1 (Self-vote)
Alexander, TGN, and Ogun are all up for an inactivity lynch if they don't vote today (pending clarification below?).
Likewise for ENE, Michi, and Vro if they unvote.
Amitav, Kane, Red, Wintermoot, and Wischland still haven't voted but aren't at IL risk.
Additionally seeking clarification with Lau, ideally before night phase ends in case he doesn't look at #werewolf before he closes the thread:
3. You are required to vote every day phase, or risk expulsion after the second day in which you are inactive. This rule does not apply to the first day phase.Two questions:
First, is this 'second day', or 'second consecutive day'?
Second, if the rule does not apply to the first day phase, why is anyone up for inactivity lynch at all today?
Post by: Michi on February 06, 2021, 12:26:03 AM
That being said, I'm not entirely comfortable with either big choice right now. Vro switched his vote on my last minute, yeah, absolutely, and he's been giving pretty decent reasoning about it since he's been pushing me to try to explain more. His flip-floppiness on it has been odd since he seemed like he didn't get behind my responses, yet he kept giving me the benefit of the doubt all the way up to the end at that last minute change. His play style reminds me a bit more of last game though rather than his scum game in Portal Attempt II, so for now I'm willing to return the favor and give him some benefit of doubt as well.
TGN, my reasoning is admittedly much more meta and much less based on this game. I'm absolutely not comfortable with the TGN-being-scum reason for purely one reason: TGN was a wolf in the last game. Considering how he's still new and getting acclimated to how we do things here, I highly doubt he'd be a wolf a second time. Even if it was randomized completely, I don't believe Laurentus would make the new guy a wolf in another game after he was just the wolf in the previous game. To me it just makes much more sense that even if he had somehow gotten the usual luck that a previous player used to have in 9/10 times rolling as wolf, he would have been given a pass to relax and enjoy a different role for his second game since he's still learning the ropes.
So this game, I'm willing to give TGN more of a derp clear mainly because again, he was a wolf in the game right before this, and I don't think he'd be thrown into the same role again for the second game in a row when he's still brand new.
On that note, I am going to vote for the one player that hasn't spoken yet and has been sporadic in their activity mainly because I want to hear from them, and I've never been one entirely to rule out the inactive-players-can-be-quiet-werewolves idea.
Vote: @Alexander Valentine
If you're not a bad guy, please speak up. You've been sporadically active and have at least been on since sign ups started, but haven't posted at all. So I'd love to hear something from you on this, though I realize over 30 pages of catch up can be pretty daunting.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 06, 2021, 12:34:41 AM
TGN did vote for you a couple posts ago.
Post by: Doc on February 06, 2021, 12:43:34 AM
TGN did vote for you a couple posts ago.Oh, good looking out. Christ, I keep missing posts.
I just don't want to get lynchedHow would voting me keep you safer? I'm already not voting for you, there's no wagon on me that could be brought to a tie, and if I was inclined to an OMGUS vote it would put you in more danger.
Vote: Doc
I might get lynched anyway but if not then this vote will save me
nothing personal, sorry doc...
we are cool right?
I don't really know how many more times I can note that you'd be better off voting for Vroendal (just as he'd be better off voting for you), and the fact that the two of you are so committed to not voting for each other is either 1) incredibly bizarre behavior if you're townies, 2) evidence that you're both townie power roles or part of a Seer Squad, in which case Christ one of you just soft reveal already, or 3) scumbuds. 3) is obviously the most likely, since a) I can't imagine why on earth townie power roles would play so scummy, and b) the odds of us picking two townies that are aware of each other as the majority wagons are incredibly slim, so I'm basically tripling down on 3).
But, I mean, whatever, you're safe for the present since Vro has 1 more vote on him than you do.
To me it just makes much more sense that even if he had somehow gotten the usual luck that a previous player used to have in 9/10 times rolling as wolf, he would have been given a pass to relax and enjoy a different role for his second game since he's still learning the ropes.
Hopefully This Time 100% Accurate Count:
Votecount at present is
Vroendal - 5 (Me, Gerrick, BSR, Cozmikrae, Nyght)
TGN - 4 (Silv/Ruguo, Vroendal, Sapphiron, Minish)
Ruguo - 1 (Mel)
ENE - 1 (Self-vote)
Doc - 1 (TGN
Alexander Valentine - 1 (Michi)
Alexander and Ogun are all up for an inactivity lynch if they don't vote today (pending clarification below?).
Likewise for ENE, Michi, TGN, and Vro if they unvote.
Amitav, Kane, Red, and Wischland still haven't voted but aren't at IL risk.
Post by: Vroendal on February 06, 2021, 12:45:39 AM
Vroendal: Split votes early on, Michi's wagon picked up steam after he jumped on. His flip flop at the end contributed to Hapi's death. Possibly an honest mistake. But Hapi said she'd vote for Vro, if Michi was wolf. After she points that out, he deliberately unvotes and abdicates his responsibility in the vote. Feels weird to me...
A rather long response, I ask that you all take the time to read it through
I am not abdicating my responsibility in the vote and I would never say anything like that. I instigated the main part of the wagon against Michi because I had seen what seemed to me to be a worrying discrepancy in the timing of his D1 vote as compared to recent previous games he played as town and a town-aligned neutral. This discrepancy aligns with the most recent game where he was a wolf. His defense then was unsatisfactory, he made no attempt to draw out any information or voice his suspicions as a town might have done, and he gave suggestions to an important power role, which should always be a worrying event. This all together caused me to be nearly absolutely convinced he was scum, but I did hold back being completely fixated, only stating 90% certainty.
At that time a couple players had mentioned they felt uncomfortable with Michi's vote. I considered that I could just be tunneling on a very suspicious townie. I grew more worried that this was the case as he adamantly resolved to not state any suspicion, I wondered whether scum Michi would risk himself like that, but fell back on considering that his behavior was anti-town, the recent meta agreed to the extent I had already researched, and his defense did have worrying fragments beyond that. When Hapi made her post, she mentioned that she felt uncomfortable with Michi's vote, and I considered that if she were town this was a large enough amount of players stating their discomfort that I should probably take more notice. If she were scum, she could be trying to save her scum-buddy, and she herself had not said anything that made me think she was town. I had been thinking of this all the way up to the last moments, and I felt the pressure to save a town if I thought Michi could be one, even if he did have anti-town behavior.
I felt irritation at Hapi's statement, because I knew if I did happen to be wrong it would be a very annoying next few phases as Hapi went after my head even though I was innocent, but I resolved to ignore it. It did not effect my final voting place. The timing is unfortunate, but her statement of discomfort of Michi's lynch was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I learned about 5 minutes before EoD that if there was a tie it would result in a coinflip. The pressure become too much, and I reasoned that though I thought Michi suspicious, didn't mean that I was in the right and I should hedge my bets. At the last moment I decided to tie it and leave it to RNG, hoping we lynched scum, we did not.
So now here we are, and you're voting for my lynch. I ask that you reconsider the reasoning I have presented and whether it makes more sense that it occurred as I claim, or that I am scum with a convoluted idea of hiding behind meta. I have not once used meta as a defense for my reasoning, it is a tunneled theory. I also could mention there would probably be better targets for me to go after as scum than a chaotical townie and a disengaged townie with anti-town behavior.
As a finishing statement, I dislike how easily people are finding it to vote me, especially since beyond my flip-floppiness (which is NAI) I've drawn people out the most and generally have pried for answers as a townie should. My logic has been consistent with no errors I can see, the only real attack against me is a convoluted WIFOM reasoning. Certain players it appears have adopted a line of thinking in which they tunnel onto me with the assumption that I'm scum, which while useful at times for considering possible motivations and links, should NOT be the only perspective one takes of a single player for an entire phase.
(Sidenote, I do plan on responding to Moot, I'm just not up to the task of that particular defense atm)
At that time a couple players had mentioned they felt uncomfortable with Michi's vote. I considered that I could just be tunneling on a very suspicious townie. I grew more worried that this was the case as he adamantly resolved to not state any suspicion, I wondered whether scum Michi would risk himself like that, but fell back on considering that his behavior was anti-town, the recent meta agreed to the extent I had already researched, and his defense did have worrying fragments beyond that. When Hapi made her post, she mentioned that she felt uncomfortable with Michi's vote, and I considered that if she were town this was a large enough amount of players stating their discomfort that I should probably take more notice. If she were scum, she could be trying to save her scum-buddy, and she herself had not said anything that made me think she was town. I had been thinking of this all the way up to the last moments, and I felt the pressure to save a town if I thought Michi could be one, even if he did have anti-town behavior.
I felt irritation at Hapi's statement, because I knew if I did happen to be wrong it would be a very annoying next few phases as Hapi went after my head even though I was innocent, but I resolved to ignore it. It did not effect my final voting place. The timing is unfortunate, but her statement of discomfort of Michi's lynch was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I learned about 5 minutes before EoD that if there was a tie it would result in a coinflip. The pressure become too much, and I reasoned that though I thought Michi suspicious, didn't mean that I was in the right and I should hedge my bets. At the last moment I decided to tie it and leave it to RNG, hoping we lynched scum, we did not.
So now here we are, and you're voting for my lynch. I ask that you reconsider the reasoning I have presented and whether it makes more sense that it occurred as I claim, or that I am scum with a convoluted idea of hiding behind meta. I have not once used meta as a defense for my reasoning, it is a tunneled theory. I also could mention there would probably be better targets for me to go after as scum than a chaotical townie and a disengaged townie with anti-town behavior.
As a finishing statement, I dislike how easily people are finding it to vote me, especially since beyond my flip-floppiness (which is NAI) I've drawn people out the most and generally have pried for answers as a townie should. My logic has been consistent with no errors I can see, the only real attack against me is a convoluted WIFOM reasoning. Certain players it appears have adopted a line of thinking in which they tunnel onto me with the assumption that I'm scum, which while useful at times for considering possible motivations and links, should NOT be the only perspective one takes of a single player for an entire phase.
(Sidenote, I do plan on responding to Moot, I'm just not up to the task of that particular defense atm)
There have been 6 new replies since starting to write this post, I am posting it without having read them. If there is a claim against me I shall answer it at a later point.
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 12:51:21 AM
Michi
After a complete read through, I think the whole Michi thing was an absolute nothing-burger. Like, a tiny meta hint, that turned into a 5 person wagon? Kinda ridiculous, and @Melehan says something I'm inclined to agree with here:
I'd also just like to point out that the now rather substantial lead Michi has in votes at the moment speaks to me of a wolf pile in there somewhere. We're not so much at multiple wagons as we are seeing The Michi Wagon & The Stragglers.And @Sapphiron:
For that reason, I don't believe Michi is actually scum, and I'd recommend looking closer at who has voted and still is voting for Michi up to this point.
Shrugs Suspicious because I refused to join mountain out of molehill bandwagons in D1 phase, one of which proved to be wrong already. Since you asked, I provide some individuals who give me town vibes - Melehan (reaction tests are good), Vro (I like to see hesitation better than decisiveness in D1), Michi (part of the 2 main wagons of D1)Secondly, the same way Lau picked up Vro being "genuine" and ended up not voting him is the same way I see Michi right now. Genuine. The attitude I saw from Michi D1 was very much genuine annoyance in the way he was pushed hard against purely for a small meta hint (which as I pointed out I'm inclined to agree with).Especially here:
I mean, if you're really that convinced, then please continue the train. It worked well enough in the last game where I was Smeagol, and since I was a turret 2 (technically 3 games since Summersend) games ago in Portal and that logic ended up proving correct in that game, then by all means incoporate it here.I've played with wolf Michi once before, and this isn't it.
As I said, I just want to play a vanilla game where we're not all at each other's throats D1 like it used to be, but if that makes me scum, then please do keep the train going and lynch me if you're that sure, I absolutely won't try to stop you.
Ruguo
Yeah so I was kinda sus of Silv since D1. I mentioned that as town they were far more analytical, here they were throwing suspicion wherever they could, including Michi, Doc, BSR, Ogun, and like 2 more I can't remember. More let me throw out stuff and see what sticks instead of how can I logically deduce things. Also, another good observation by Mel here:
Ruguo - Seems mighty eager to ascribe scummy intent to what are likely the actions of inexperienced players. Very carefully distancing themself from those plays.I also noticed Ruguo says:
In all seriousness, I would ask you to not trust me as a host to learn how anyone plays, or remember it. When I'm on the other side, I'm gone. I'm laser focused on making things work, and unless there's a major infraction or a mod-request, I pretty much ignore who said what when and how.But then says:
I will apologize to Ogun if that is the case.
Honestly, Mel isn't giving me scum vibes. Granted, I haven't played with a scum Mel and hosting games does warp your perspective quite a bit, but I'm honestly seeing the same patterns I'm used to seeing from her. It is day one, and she's far from off the hook altogether, but if I had to read based off of the data thus far, mal would have at least earned a spot in lime.Sort of a stretch, but from I'm reading it sounds like Silv says "I don't pay attention to meta as host" then says "Mel is town based on what I remember from playing with her and hosting. Mildly contradictory.
Gerrick
So Gerrick starts off with a joke vote on Michi. Vro starts the Michi meta catastrophe, and Gerrick uses this as a great opportunity to get a town lynched (assuming Michi is town, which I'm inclined to think). Only reasoning being "his responses to Vro rub me the wrong way" Not strong at all, but okay. Vro is listed as Town Lean in reads list. With little activity in between, they're now voting for Vroendal. What happened to Michi who was in Scum lean? I don't know, the jumping seems ridiculous at first, but makes sense from a scum perspective. Bank on Vro's push to get an easy town lynch, now that the tides turn against vro, bank on that to get another easy town lynch.
And that makes even more sense if we assume Vro is town, which honestly, I still am. The meta, the reactions, the questions, the activity, the genuine-ness (doesn't sound like a real word, but apparently it is) and as Sapph pointed out, the ultimate uncertainty on D1 all make me think he's still town. The votes against him are racking up. That scares me.
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on February 06, 2021, 01:02:41 AM
@Sapphiron (im sorry butchered the spelling)It’s not a matter of “so soon”, her vote against you didn’t factor into my consideration against you.
why did you vote me so soon after @Cozmikeray (sorry again)
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 01:10:50 AM
Snip
Now to (finally) articulate the link I spotted between Red and Minish.
In addition to the post Vro made linking Red and Minish together (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156048#msg156048), I found it very interesting how Red had a wagon forming on him early D1 that essentially dissolved. And yet, even as Minish seemed determined to cast suspicion on Red and get a viable third wagon going, she was simultaneously distancing herself from actually voting for Red.
Minish hops onto the Red Wagon after Moot. (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156042#msg156042)
Minish teases Vro with a link to Moot. (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156051#msg156051)
Minish backs off sussing Red. (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156053#msg156053)
Minish denies the Moot connection, noting that she doesn't play nice with her scumbuds. (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156057#msg156057)
Minish continues advocating for a third wagon while distancing herself from sussing Red specifically. (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156062#msg156062)
Minish switches to Michi as the 5th vote on the Michi Wagon. (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156086#msg156086)
What this indicates to me is that either Minish is a Wolf and Red is Town, or both Minish and Red are Wolves and Minish was looking to cement her Town Cred by bussing Red. Minish at that point in the game was pretty unanimously being read as Town, and what better way to cement that than to be seen voting for a Wolf Wagon other players had abandoned?
Additionally, if Michi is actually Town as I suspect, Minish's switching to be the 5th vote on the Michi Wagon would take out one Town early without putting too much sus on her because the general consensus of Town was that "Michi is Sus" and Minish had convinced most of the talkative Town to read her as Town.
Combined with how Doc, Vro, and I all suspect at least one powerwolf in this game and how Ruguo admitted to being unable to discern between Town Minish and Scum Minish, I'm beginning to strongly suspect that Minish is our resident powerwolf. Especially considering the clash Minish had with Vro earlier today over Vro objecting to Town giving only their Top Town Read.
There are other smaller things, like Minish being certain that the Wolves did NOT pull a NKN1 and the Doc confusion that also nudge me towards "Minish is SCUM", but as it stands, I'm seeing links between Minish and Red, Ruguo, and Vro. There are also weaker links between Minish and Moot and Doc.
How many of those links are manufactured/incidental, and whether or not Minish is a Wolf, remains to be seen since this is only D2.
EOD and tonight will be interesting.
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 01:17:04 AM
As a finishing statement, I dislike how easily people are finding it to vote me, especially since beyond my flip-floppiness (which is NAI) I've drawn people out the most and generally have pried for answers as a townie should. My logic has been consistent with no errors I can see, the only real attack against me is a convoluted WIFOM reasoning. Certain players it appears have adopted a line of thinking in which they tunnel onto me with the assumption that I'm scum, which while useful at times for considering possible motivations and links, should NOT be the only perspective one takes of a single player for an entire phase.More town points for Vro as everything he says here I covered already or agree with. Especially his point about the convoluted WIFOM reasoning. I expect far more deductive and logical play from Gerrick, which is why his jump makes me so suspicious. One thing that also worries me is Minish is far, far better than all of us, and they can easily fly under anybodys radar. Melehan who I strongly think is town seems to be the only person who's actually "scum-hunting". If they find something sus with Minish, there is probably something to be worried about. I'd almost say Minish, Ruguo and Gerrick are 3/4 of our wolves, but I won't go that far yet.
Regardless:
Vote: Ruguo
Post by: Ruguo on February 06, 2021, 01:33:21 AM
Spoiler
Alright, after a complete re-read of the game, here are my thoughts:MichiAfter a complete read through, I think the whole Michi thing was an absolute nothing-burger. Like, a tiny meta hint, that turned into a 5 person wagon? Kinda ridiculous, and @Melehan says something I'm inclined to agree with here:I'd also just like to point out that the now rather substantial lead Michi has in votes at the moment speaks to me of a wolf pile in there somewhere. We're not so much at multiple wagons as we are seeing The Michi Wagon & The Stragglers.And @Sapphiron:
For that reason, I don't believe Michi is actually scum, and I'd recommend looking closer at who has voted and still is voting for Michi up to this point.Shrugs Suspicious because I refused to join mountain out of molehill bandwagons in D1 phase, one of which proved to be wrong already. Since you asked, I provide some individuals who give me town vibes - Melehan (reaction tests are good), Vro (I like to see hesitation better than decisiveness in D1), Michi (part of the 2 main wagons of D1)Secondly, the same way Lau picked up Vro being "genuine" and ended up not voting him is the same way I see Michi right now. Genuine. The attitude I saw from Michi D1 was very much genuine annoyance in the way he was pushed hard against purely for a small meta hint (which as I pointed out I'm inclined to agree with).Especially here:I mean, if you're really that convinced, then please continue the train. It worked well enough in the last game where I was Smeagol, and since I was a turret 2 (technically 3 games since Summersend) games ago in Portal and that logic ended up proving correct in that game, then by all means incoporate it here.I've played with wolf Michi once before, and this isn't it.
As I said, I just want to play a vanilla game where we're not all at each other's throats D1 like it used to be, but if that makes me scum, then please do keep the train going and lynch me if you're that sure, I absolutely won't try to stop you.Here's where things get interesting though, Gerrick:RuguoYeah so I was kinda sus of Silv since D1. I mentioned that as town they were far more analytical, here they were throwing suspicion wherever they could, including Michi, Doc, BSR, Ogun, and like 2 more I can't remember. More let me throw out stuff and see what sticks instead of how can I logically deduce things. Also, another good observation by Mel here:Ruguo - Seems mighty eager to ascribe scummy intent to what are likely the actions of inexperienced players. Very carefully distancing themself from those plays.I also noticed Ruguo says:In all seriousness, I would ask you to not trust me as a host to learn how anyone plays, or remember it. When I'm on the other side, I'm gone. I'm laser focused on making things work, and unless there's a major infraction or a mod-request, I pretty much ignore who said what when and how.But then says:
I will apologize to Ogun if that is the case.Honestly, Mel isn't giving me scum vibes. Granted, I haven't played with a scum Mel and hosting games does warp your perspective quite a bit, but I'm honestly seeing the same patterns I'm used to seeing from her. It is day one, and she's far from off the hook altogether, but if I had to read based off of the data thus far, mal would have at least earned a spot in lime.Sort of a stretch, but from I'm reading it sounds like Silv says "I don't pay attention to meta as host" then says "Mel is town based on what I remember from playing with her and hosting. Mildly contradictory.GerrickSo Gerrick starts off with a joke vote on Michi. Vro starts the Michi meta catastrophe, and Gerrick uses this as a great opportunity to get a town lynched (assuming Michi is town, which I'm inclined to think). Only reasoning being "his responses to Vro rub me the wrong way" Not strong at all, but okay. Vro is listed as Town Lean in reads list. With little activity in between, they're now voting for Vroendal. What happened to Michi who was in Scum lean? I don't know, the jumping seems ridiculous at first, but makes sense from a scum perspective. Bank on Vro's push to get an easy town lynch, now that the tides turn against vro, bank on that to get another easy town lynch.
And that makes even more sense if we assume Vro is town, which honestly, I still am. The meta, the reactions, the questions, the activity, the genuine-ness (doesn't sound like a real word, but apparently it is) and as Sapph pointed out, the ultimate uncertainty on D1 all make me think he's still town. The votes against him are racking up. That scares me.
Anyway. I promised that if TGN gave me what I wanted, I would unvote.
Unvote
Now, it's presently looking like Vro is up for the chop, and me unvoting is not helping any other wagon get remotely close to it. I'm okay with a Vro lynch, but I would prefer a BSR lynch, even though that's not relaly on the table.
I did like Mel's observations about Min- there are some parallels when pointed out that reflect her behaviour as scum in the last game we played.
I didn't particularly like Michi's latest post- While is can appreciate random bugging of lurkers, now is not the time. It feels to me like he's trying to avoid being on one of the major wagons. And while yes, I am climbing off one and not immediately jumping to the other, I also won't be randomly starting a new wagon this close to EoD. Random lurkers are gonna get killed off anyway.
Sapph is still coming across rather short and uncomfy for me, but I promised an actual ISO before I moved on that, and the vote on him from earlier seems to have gone away, so it's not worth trying to start a wagon with so little time.
So my options remain Doc, TGN, Vro, Myself (I'm not libk, I'm not going to vote myself), ENE, or Alexander (Who's most likely looking at a modkill).
Of those, I don't think Doc is particularly scummy, and I just put a bunch of effort into getting TGN to contribute things, so I'm not voting there. I find it pointless to be on a wagon for a self vote or an inactive in imminent danger of dying, so that just leaves my owl pal.
Vote: Vroendal
At least your lynch will afford us information, even if you're not my first choice. You're hardly my last choice though, so okay? Okay.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 06, 2021, 01:36:28 AM
I’m not sussing Minish, but since people said they are very good at this game.... now I want to reread D1 again. But I may not have time or the cell reception before EOD. I’m going to
Unvote
and potentially put in my
No lynch
for this game.
I’m not getting strong reads, and the people I had feelings about have solidified their innocence.
Post by: Vroendal on February 06, 2021, 01:43:24 AM
More town points for Vro as everything he says here I covered already or agree with. Especially his point about the convoluted WIFOM reasoning. I expect far more deductive and logical play from Gerrick, which is why his jump makes me so suspicious. One thing that also worries me is Minish is far, far better than all of us, and they can easily fly under anybodys radar. Melehan who I strongly think is town seems to be the only person who's actually "scum-hunting". If they find something sus with Minish, there is probably something to be worried about. I'd almost say Minish, Ruguo and Gerrick are 3/4 of our wolves, but I won't go that far yet.I had said I would likely end up voting Ruguo for the reasons I had presented earlier, it should not come as a shock that I am now switching my vote now. TGN has presented more effort in his recent posts than I've ever seen before from him in WW, and even if there are points I disagree with and would like him to expound upon, I think that he would go down more easily as a wolf, the effort he put in (as either alignment) is commendable and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, for now.
Regardless:
Vote: Ruguo
Vote: Ruguo
I admit that I'm not sold on Minish being scum quite yet, over the night phase (if I survive today) I shall investigate a Minish/Ruguo scum link if Ruguo flips scum today. I think this is a good starting point. I've been town-reading Gerrick in spite of his vote against me, I shall take time to consider your theory, but I would definitely go after Minish first. I'm just not really feeling scum vibes from him. Though it's not a full excuse for his reasoning I combated earlier, I find his claim to be less involved in this game due to out-of-game circumstances is probably believable, and would be likely to contribute to any errors in his push, at least to some extent.
Time to read Silv's post now.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 06, 2021, 01:44:56 AM
Post by: Ruguo on February 06, 2021, 01:51:16 AM
@Ruguo Why shouldn’t I jump on the band wagon and vote for you?
Uh... Because I'm a terrible person and should definitely not be kept around, ever?
I don't see you as a wagoning kind of person, Rae. I think you've thought out every step you've made, and you would have voted me already if you thought that was what was best. The fact that you're asking this question leads me to think you already know the answer.
I'm not scum. I've done my best to both jump on things I find odd as well as steer newer players in the right direction. I'm admitedly playing a bit differently this game- I want the newer players such as yourself to get the experience of hunting- so I'm doing a lot more prodding around than usual to stir up the dust.
I'd also ask you to consider: Would scum spend so much time trying to get TGN to prove his innocence? If I were scum, I could easily have left it with his wagon clearly in the lead and gone home happy- but I didn't, because I'm not scum, and he deserves better than that.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 06, 2021, 02:00:09 AM
But about the wagoning comment: wagons are how things get done. Me applying 1 random vote, or refusing to vote is useless. Unless I join with others who I feel have our best interest at heart, or convince them to join me, we won’t get anything done.
But the TGN thing either links you two, or makes you town. I’m still inclined to think TGN is innocent. So still no lynch for me I suppose.
Post by: Sapphiron on February 06, 2021, 02:03:37 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 06, 2021, 02:05:43 AM
Silv Quote
Anyway. I promised that if TGN gave me what I wanted, I would unvote.
Unvote
Now, it's presently looking like Vro is up for the chop, and me unvoting is not helping any other wagon get remotely close to it. I'm okay with a Vro lynch, but I would prefer a BSR lynch, even though that's not relaly on the table.
I did like Mel's observations about Min- there are some parallels when pointed out that reflect her behaviour as scum in the last game we played.
I didn't particularly like Michi's latest post- While is can appreciate random bugging of lurkers, now is not the time. It feels to me like he's trying to avoid being on one of the major wagons. And while yes, I am climbing off one and not immediately jumping to the other, I also won't be randomly starting a new wagon this close to EoD. Random lurkers are gonna get killed off anyway.
Sapph is still coming across rather short and uncomfy for me, but I promised an actual ISO before I moved on that, and the vote on him from earlier seems to have gone away, so it's not worth trying to start a wagon with so little time.
So my options remain Doc, TGN, Vro, Myself (I'm not libk, I'm not going to vote myself), ENE, or Alexander (Who's most likely looking at a modkill).
Of those, I don't think Doc is particularly scummy, and I just put a bunch of effort into getting TGN to contribute things, so I'm not voting there. I find it pointless to be on a wagon for a self vote or an inactive in imminent danger of dying, so that just leaves my owl pal.
Vote: Vroendal
At least your lynch will afford us information, even if you're not my first choice. You're hardly my last choice though, so okay? Okay.
I'd also ask you to consider: Would scum spend so much time trying to get TGN to prove his innocence? If I were scum, I could easily have left it with his wagon clearly in the lead and gone home happy- but I didn't, because I'm not scum, and he deserves better than that.I don't think the rational scum would be especially motivated, but I think regular Silv and scum Silv are a little different, and you're using the more genuine tone from regular Silv helping a newer player to give town cred to scum Silv. Just calling it like I think it.
(If you turn out to be scum I would like to have "POCKET THIS!" attributed to me, thank you)
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 02:17:35 AM
*notes the names in common with the Michi Wagon: Gerrick and Ruguo*
Post by: cozmikrae on February 06, 2021, 02:22:30 AM
Ok
Vote: Ruguo
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 02:25:32 AM
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 02:25:51 AM
Vro - 5 (Doc, Gerrick, BSR, Nyght, Ruguo)
TGN - 2 (Sapph, Minish)
Ruguo - 4 (Mele, Red, Vro, Cozmik)
ENE - 1 (ENE)
Alexander - 1 (Michi)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 02:26:25 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on February 06, 2021, 02:29:55 AM
Unvote
Vote: Ruguo
Post by: cozmikrae on February 06, 2021, 02:30:27 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 02:31:24 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 02:33:31 AM
Gah, my brain
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 02:34:55 AM
If Ruguo turns out to be wolf I will ride or die with Melehan to the end of the game.And now I'm worried what will happen if Ruguo flips green because they're not the one I'm moat suspicious of at the moment, but then, the vote analysis is certainly something.
And with Sapph's shift, we have the following votes:
Vro - 5 (Doc, Gerrick, BSR, Nyght, Ruguo)
TGN - 1 (Minish)
Ruguo - 5 (Mele, Red, Vro, Cozmik, Sapph)
ENE - 1 (ENE)
Alexander - 1 (Michi)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 02:35:34 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 02:36:15 AM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 06, 2021, 02:38:14 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 02:39:34 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 06, 2021, 02:41:40 AM
If Ruguo flips green, I'm a dead man, and honestly I'd deserve it lolNahhh, I feel the towniness seeping from you it's almost sickening. ;) I'm sure others do as well. I'm not going to tell the Seer what to do, but they would likely check you if Ruguo flips town.
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 02:43:27 AM
Vro - 6 (Moot, Doc, Gerrick, BSR, Nyght, Ruguo)
TGN - 2 (Sapph, Minish)
Ruguo - 4 (Mele, Red, Vro, Cozmik)
ENE - 1 (ENE)
Alexander - 1 (Michi)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 02:44:17 AM
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 02:44:46 AM
Actual Count (for reals this time)
Vro - 6 (Moot, Doc, Gerrick, BSR, Nyght, Ruguo)
TGN - 1 (Minish)
Ruguo - 5 (Mele, Red, Vro, Cozmik, Sapph)
ENE - 1 (ENE)
Alexander - 1 (Michi)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Post by: Ruguo on February 06, 2021, 02:46:15 AM
But yall do realize I gave my reasons about why I stayed on Michi at multiple points D1, right? And I did give my reasoning as to why I'm voting vro, it's not "Luls, let's go pile on this townie because I'm big mean hairy scum".
*shrug* at least I'm an informative choice, can't fault anyone there. I poked up too much dust, I only hope you can sort it out for me when it settles.
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 02:52:19 AM
Mel and her vote patterns, darn you. It's pretty hard to defend against votes.Vote patterns are pretty concrete evidence, yes.
But yall do realize I gave my reasons about why I stayed on Michi at multiple points D1, right? And I did give my reasoning as to why I'm voting vro, it's not "Luls, let's go pile on this townie because I'm big mean hairy scum".
*shrug* at least I'm an informative choice, can't fault anyone there. I poked up too much dust, I only hope you can sort it out for me when it settles.
Though if you really wanted to increase your odds of being read as Town (assuming you survive), you could vote someone other than Vro. ;P
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 02:52:40 AM
Post by: Ruguo on February 06, 2021, 02:55:03 AM
Vote patterns are pretty concrete evidence, yes.
Though if you really wanted to increase your odds of being read as Town (assuming you survive), you could vote someone other than Vro. ;P
Ah yes, go assure my death. That seems like the best idea I've never had.
I accidentally tied a vote in the last game I played because I didn't wanna die, I'm not gonna chance it, and I'm not gonna vote for the sake of voting unless it's a viable option. So unless someone helps me make BSR a viable option, I'm staying where I am.
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 02:57:39 AM
Post by: Ruguo on February 06, 2021, 02:59:25 AM
Post by: TGN on February 06, 2021, 03:01:58 AM
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 03:04:19 AM
WHY ARE WE VOTING Vro AND Ruguo!Ruguo's voting patterns have been suspicious so far.
Post by: Michi on February 06, 2021, 03:05:08 AM
Unvote
Change Vote: Ruguo
Post by: Minish on February 06, 2021, 03:07:56 AM
Unvote
I'm leaning more towards TGN being town now for a kinda derp clear I saw reading through. He thought Silver was the host instead of Laur. And I think as scum interacting with the host more he would be well aware of who it is. Instead he seems like town not paying attention. And for the love of god please don't vote yourself.
I'll address this more later when I'm not laying in bed, in the dark, with my phone two inches from my face because I don't have my glasses on. But Melehan is either in a really bad tunnel on me or is just scum trying to get me mislynched. I find it odd that Silver said there are parallels between me this game and me last game (on zd) because that's not even close.
Here's the game if you all would like to read it btw.
https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/trouble-communicating-jojos-bizarre-adventure-game-thread.69673/
Melehan thinks there's a link between me and Silver due to it looking like me trying to distance. You can look at that game and see that I don't do shallow distancing. If I distance I go all in. I scumread one of my partners from d1 til I got him lynched d2. I'm a known busser. I don't distance like this unless it's late game with scum close to a win. And Silver would also know this from the MTG Mafia game we played together on Bulba. I also lynched my scumbud d1 there and rode the towncred. What you're seeing is unsure town (as town should be).
I think it was Red that pointed out my "half a mind to vote Ruguo and then voting Michi" thing. That was due to me going to bed soon and the half a mind thing was because no one was voting or considering (that I know of) Silver at the time, so it's like "I don't know who who's scum here but Silver is pinging me so I'm almost inclined to go with my gut and start a completely different wagon other than the main focused ones". But I didn't want to do that and peace out for the rest of the day phase (because I would be asleep).
I think my sleeping schedule is also why Melehan says I apparently have odd voting times or something. Because I sleep when most of y'all are awake and vice versa and so half the time I'll place a vote before bed just to have one in.
Also Melehan bringing up the doc "slip" again is laughable. I don't even know how that would be a slip when I said doc two different times in my post and there would be no way for me to even slip about Doc being a defender? It just doesn't make sense and the easiest and most simple explanation is the one that I gave in that we call defenders doctors on ZD.
It's like my expectation for that was ignored by Mele, much like my explanation for anything else because I have solidly explained my rationale for everything and she still seems to disregard it (like saying I was sussing Vro for reaction testing after I gave specific reasoning that was very much not that).
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 03:09:03 AM
Vro - 6 (Moot, Doc, Gerrick, BSR, Nyght, Ruguo)
TGN - 1 (Minish)
Ruguo - 5 (Mele, Red, Vro, Cozmik, Sapph, Michi)
ENE - 1 (ENE)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
We now have a tie between Vro and Ruguo! The excitement continues! And the odds of a wolf being on the Ruguo Train have dramatically increased in the past few hours.
EOD2 is looking wild right now.
Post by: Minish on February 06, 2021, 03:11:01 AM
Ugh, I want to vote Silver more but the more townie people are on Vro.
Post by: Minish on February 06, 2021, 03:13:09 AM
Vote: Ruguo
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 03:14:00 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 03:15:20 AM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 06, 2021, 03:15:35 AM
With Michi's switch (and assuming Doc didn't miss any other votes because this count is based off his count), the votes are thus:
Vro - 6 (Moot, Doc, Gerrick, BSR, Nyght, Ruguo)
TGN - 1 (Minish)
Ruguo - 5 (Mele, Red, Vro, Cozmik, Sapph, Michi)
ENE - 1 (ENE)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
We now have a tie between Vro and Ruguo! The excitement continues! And the odds of a wolf being on the Ruguo Train have dramatically increased in the past few hours.
EOD2 is looking wild right now.
Minish just unvoted. So TGN should have no votes.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 06, 2021, 03:16:11 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 03:16:17 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 03:16:50 AM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 06, 2021, 03:18:18 AM
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 03:19:11 AM
Spoiler
Couldn't sleep so of course instead I check mafia.
Unvote
I'm leaning more towards TGN being town now for a kinda derp clear I saw reading through. He thought Silver was the host instead of Laur. And I think as scum interacting with the host more he would be well aware of who it is. Instead he seems like town not paying attention. And for the love of god please don't vote yourself.
I'll address this more later when I'm not laying in bed, in the dark, with my phone two inches from my face because I don't have my glasses on. But Melehan is either in a really bad tunnel on me or is just scum trying to get me mislynched. I find it odd that Silver said there are parallels between me this game and me last game (on zd) because that's not even close.
Here's the game if you all would like to read it btw.
https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/trouble-communicating-jojos-bizarre-adventure-game-thread.69673/
Melehan thinks there's a link between me and Silver due to it looking like me trying to distance. You can look at that game and see that I don't do shallow distancing. If I distance I go all in. I scumread one of my partners from d1 til I got him lynched d2. I'm a known busser. I don't distance like this unless it's late game with scum close to a win. And Silver would also know this from the MTG Mafia game we played together on Bulba. I also lynched my scumbud d1 there and rode the towncred. What you're seeing is unsure town (as town should be).
I think it was Red that pointed out my "half a mind to vote Ruguo and then voting Michi" thing. That was due to me going to bed soon and the half a mind thing was because no one was voting or considering (that I know of) Silver at the time, so it's like "I don't know who who's scum here but Silver is pinging me so I'm almost inclined to go with my gut and start a completely different wagon other than the main focused ones". But I didn't want to do that and peace out for the rest of the day phase (because I would be asleep).
I think my sleeping schedule is also why Melehan says I apparently have odd voting times or something. Because I sleep when most of y'all are awake and vice versa and so half the time I'll place a vote before bed just to have one in.
Also Melehan bringing up the doc "slip" again is laughable. I don't even know how that would be a slip when I said doc two different times in my post and there would be no way for me to even slip about Doc being a defender? It just doesn't make sense and the easiest and most simple explanation is the one that I gave in that we call defenders doctors on ZD.
It's like my expectation for that was ignored by Mele, much like my explanation for anything else because I have solidly explained my rationale for everything and she still seems to disregard it (like saying I was sussing Vro for reaction testing after I gave specific reasoning that was very much not that).
However, your voting patterns are strange not due to timing as in timezones, but timing as in what's going on in the game at the time. You've hopped onto two apparently easy lynch trains as of D2: Michi and TGN. As scum, it would make sense to go for the easy lynches rather than start a new train, and I can't help but alao note that you've hopped onto trains more than started any.
The vote analysis in addition to the other things references is what leads me to suspect you as (currently useful) scum.
Aaaaand now you've hopped onto another sure train. The voting patterns. I'm telling you.
OMG all the posts won't let me post!!!
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 03:22:07 AM
Lol @Melehan you put "Ruguo - 5 (Mele, Red, Vro, Cozmik, Sapph, Michi)" 5, but with 6 voters on the end.Shhh! I'll fix it on my own! Stop highlighting my shame. ;_;
Vro - 6 (Moot, Doc, Gerrick, BSR, Nyght, Ruguo)
Ruguo - 7 (Mele, Red, Vro, Cozmik, Sapph, Michi, Minish)
ENE - 1 (ENE)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Post by: TGN on February 06, 2021, 03:23:11 AM
This is the forum equivalent of everyone talking over each other.no this thread is
all the names are random, this has nothing to do with my thoughts (also the lowercase letters are Doc) also it's a joke so please don't tear me a new face over it
hey guys I notice-
QUICKLY IT'S-
OMG GUUUUUUUUUUUYS I KNOW WHO IT IS, I-
um... I was talki-
GUYS GUYS GUYS IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST 10 PAGES YOU WILL SEE THAT HAPI WAS WORKING WITH VRO TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT AND MAKE A NEW COUNTRY IN WEREW-
that doesn't mak-
OH MA GOSH! GUYS I FOUND OUT TGN EDITED A POST, CANCEL, CANCEL, CANC-
WOAH I MADE A BREAKTHROUGH, MICHI MURDERED 5 PEOPLE IN 1 NIGHT
QUICKLY IT'S-
OMG GUUUUUUUUUUUYS I KNOW WHO IT IS, I-
um... I was talki-
GUYS GUYS GUYS IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST 10 PAGES YOU WILL SEE THAT HAPI WAS WORKING WITH VRO TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT AND MAKE A NEW COUNTRY IN WEREW-
that doesn't mak-
OH MA GOSH! GUYS I FOUND OUT TGN EDITED A POST, CANCEL, CANCEL, CANC-
WOAH I MADE A BREAKTHROUGH, MICHI MURDERED 5 PEOPLE IN 1 NIGHT
Post by: Minish on February 06, 2021, 03:25:22 AM
You don't have to be
voting someone to be setting up a mislynch. In fact it's better for scum to have people around that they continuously put suspicion on so that they have more set up mislynches later on. You wouldn't try to lynch me now when there are clearly better mislynch targets that are being talked about.
Also, I don't go for easy lynches as scum. If I were scum I would actually want to keep them around. It's good distraction and tbh I wouldn't worry about someone like TGN or Michi sussing me out over Hapi or Vro/Silver.
And how are you gonna say I've hopped on another sure train that YOU'RE voting as well and I broke a tie?
Post by: TGN on February 06, 2021, 03:25:36 AM
Doc has left Wintreath in hopes for a normal werewolf game
accurate huh?
Post by: Ruguo on February 06, 2021, 03:28:43 AM
Post by: Gerrick on February 06, 2021, 03:29:17 AM
Here's where things get interesting though, Gerrick:Yeah, Vro was town-lean D1 when I made the reads list, which was before Vro made all the flip flop votes on Michi, so his subsequent move to scum-lean logically follows. Michi is also still slightly scum-lean for me (disappearing after all that seems convenient but also totally possible), but as I laid out, I doubt that they're both scum. Vro's vote changing seems more concretely scum to me than the evidence against Michi, so naturally I suspect Vro of being more likely to be scum.GerrickSo Gerrick starts off with a joke vote on Michi. Vro starts the Michi meta catastrophe, and Gerrick uses this as a great opportunity to get a town lynched (assuming Michi is town, which I'm inclined to think). Only reasoning being "his responses to Vro rub me the wrong way" Not strong at all, but okay. Vro is listed as Town Lean in reads list. With little activity in between, they're now voting for Vroendal. What happened to Michi who was in Scum lean? I don't know, the jumping seems ridiculous at first, but makes sense from a scum perspective. Bank on Vro's push to get an easy town lynch, now that the tides turn against vro, bank on that to get another easy town lynch.
Also, I can move my vote to Ruguo if that'll make you feel better, but I don't think it'll have the same effect at this point after the flurry of votes that put them on the chopping block.
Post by: Minish on February 06, 2021, 03:31:57 AM
Post by: Gerrick on February 06, 2021, 03:39:05 AM
As a finishing statement, I dislike how easily people are finding it to vote me, especially since beyond my flip-floppiness (which is NAI) I've drawn people out the most and generally have pried for answers as a townie should. My logic has been consistent with no errors I can see, the only real attack against me is a convoluted WIFOM reasoning. Certain players it appears have adopted a line of thinking in which they tunnel onto me with the assumption that I'm scum, which while useful at times for considering possible motivations and links, should NOT be the only perspective one takes of a single player for an entire phase.More town points for Vro as everything he says here I covered already or agree with. Especially his point about the convoluted WIFOM reasoning. I expect far more deductive and logical play from Gerrick, which is why his jump makes me so suspicious. One thing that also worries me is Minish is far, far better than all of us, and they can easily fly under anybodys radar. Melehan who I strongly think is town seems to be the only person who's actually "scum-hunting". If they find something sus with Minish, there is probably something to be worried about. I'd almost say Minish, Ruguo and Gerrick are 3/4 of our wolves, but I won't go that far yet.
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 03:39:51 AM
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 03:41:45 AM
@MelehanI'm definitely not going to try lynching you this close to EOD.
You don't have to be
voting someone to be setting up a mislynch. In fact it's better for scum to have people around that they continuously put suspicion on so that they have more set up mislynches later on. You wouldn't try to lynch me now when there are clearly better mislynch targets that are being talked about.
Also, I don't go for easy lynches as scum. If I were scum I would actually want to keep them around. It's good distraction and tbh I wouldn't worry about someone like TGN or Michi sussing me out over Hapi or Vro/Silver.
And how are you gonna say I've hopped on another sure train that YOU'RE voting as well and I broke a tie?
That aside, I voted for Ruguo because I had the most concrete evidence on them. I wasn't expecting to start a train, and the speed at which the Ruguo Wagon picked up steam indicates that there's at least one Wolf on board, if not more. But what's really interesting to me is how many people on the Ruguo and Vro Wagons now started on the TGN Wagon.
Post by: Gerrick on February 06, 2021, 03:42:21 AM
Vote: Ruguo
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 03:42:28 AM
Ok if you're willing to prove it, then do it.And things like this are why I can't decide if you're actually Town or not.
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 03:43:27 AM
Post by: Minish on February 06, 2021, 03:47:34 AM
@MelehanI'm definitely not going to try lynching you this close to EOD.
You don't have to be
voting someone to be setting up a mislynch. In fact it's better for scum to have people around that they continuously put suspicion on so that they have more set up mislynches later on. You wouldn't try to lynch me now when there are clearly better mislynch targets that are being talked about.
Also, I don't go for easy lynches as scum. If I were scum I would actually want to keep them around. It's good distraction and tbh I wouldn't worry about someone like TGN or Michi sussing me out over Hapi or Vro/Silver.
And how are you gonna say I've hopped on another sure train that YOU'RE voting as well and I broke a tie?
That aside, I voted for Ruguo because I had the most concrete evidence on them. I wasn't expecting to start a train, and the speed at which the Ruguo Wagon picked up steam indicates that there's at least one Wolf on board, if not more. But what's really interesting to me is how many people on the Ruguo and Vro Wagons now started on the TGN Wagon.
Your vote analysis isn't that concrete, especially considering I know I'm town and know that you're wrong on me. Just using voting patterns is an easy thing for scum to hide behind.
I voted for Ruguo for reasons I've already stated which include his tone feeling different than his town tone. Where generally he seems much more unsure of himself. And him throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Having actual reason behind voting someone is much stronger than voting patterns.
Post by: Minish on February 06, 2021, 03:49:47 AM
Lol that's a powerwolf move isn't it?
It very much is. Haha.
Also usually town wants people to vote with who they suspect is most scummy. Not vote to try to gain town cred.
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 03:52:05 AM
Post by: Minish on February 06, 2021, 03:57:35 AM
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 03:58:05 AM
Lol that's a powerwolf move isn't it?
Yes, and there's a few reasons why:
It makes you look super certain that Ruguo will flip red, which is saying a lot coming from me, the person who sussed Ruguo hard enough to convince a lot of you to vote Ruguo.
Gerrick switching votes now also doesn't necessarily prove anything, except that he's pretty sure you at least at Town, which points to him more likely being Wolf than not this early in the game. Which, if you are a Wolf, could be a ploy to clear you as Town in the eyes of the rest of the Town. Which makes me unsure that you are actually Town.
@MelehanI'm definitely not going to try lynching you this close to EOD.
You don't have to be
voting someone to be setting up a mislynch. In fact it's better for scum to have people around that they continuously put suspicion on so that they have more set up mislynches later on. You wouldn't try to lynch me now when there are clearly better mislynch targets that are being talked about.
Also, I don't go for easy lynches as scum. If I were scum I would actually want to keep them around. It's good distraction and tbh I wouldn't worry about someone like TGN or Michi sussing me out over Hapi or Vro/Silver.
And how are you gonna say I've hopped on another sure train that YOU'RE voting as well and I broke a tie?
That aside, I voted for Ruguo because I had the most concrete evidence on them. I wasn't expecting to start a train, and the speed at which the Ruguo Wagon picked up steam indicates that there's at least one Wolf on board, if not more. But what's really interesting to me is how many people on the Ruguo and Vro Wagons now started on the TGN Wagon.
Your vote analysis isn't that concrete, especially considering I know I'm town and know that you're wrong on me. Just using voting patterns is an easy thing for scum to hide behind.
I voted for Ruguo for reasons I've already stated which include his tone feeling different than his town tone. Where generally he seems much more unsure of himself. And him throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Having actual reason behind voting someone is much stronger than voting patterns.
I don't disagree with anything you said here.
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 04:01:44 AM
Eh, I didn't vote for Ruguo because of you, considering I was already sus enough of them to vote for them D1. Plus I created an entire post about them reading through the game independently of you. And I'm aware that doesn't prove much for Gerrick, since Ruguo is already in the lead, but like I said, I'm solidifying the lead. I'm more sure of Ruguo than Vro, so I would rather see Ruguo lynched over Vro.Lol that's a powerwolf move isn't it?
Yes, and there's a few reasons why:
It makes you look super certain that Ruguo will flip red, which is saying a lot coming from me, the person who sussed Ruguo hard enough to convince a lot of you to vote Ruguo.
Gerrick switching votes now also doesn't necessarily prove anything, except that he's pretty sure you at least at Town, which points to him more likely being Wolf than not this early in the game. Which, if you are a Wolf, could be a ploy to clear you as Town in the eyes of the rest of the Town. Which makes me unsure that you are actually Town.
Post by: Vroendal on February 06, 2021, 04:03:03 AM
Post by: Minish on February 06, 2021, 04:05:52 AM
Lol that's a powerwolf move isn't it?
Yes, and there's a few reasons why:
It makes you look super certain that Ruguo will flip red, which is saying a lot coming from me, the person who sussed Ruguo hard enough to convince a lot of you to vote Ruguo.
Gerrick switching votes now also doesn't necessarily prove anything, except that he's pretty sure you at least at Town, which points to him more likely being Wolf than not this early in the game. Which, if you are a Wolf, could be a ploy to clear you as Town in the eyes of the rest of the Town. Which makes me unsure that you are actually Town.
That...is an interesting analysis. I think maybe our clash here is difference in playstyles.
Because what was "powerwolfing" about that to me would be that Red knows Silver would flip town. Powerwolfing isn't getting your own scumbud lynched, it's taking control and causing mislynches.
And I don't think it would point towards Gerrick knowing he's town. If Gerrick were scum here it would point to him either knowing both wagons are town/town or him lynching a scumbud for town cred.
Post by: Melehan on February 06, 2021, 04:08:38 AM
It very well could be a difference in playstyles.Lol that's a powerwolf move isn't it?
Yes, and there's a few reasons why:
It makes you look super certain that Ruguo will flip red, which is saying a lot coming from me, the person who sussed Ruguo hard enough to convince a lot of you to vote Ruguo.
Gerrick switching votes now also doesn't necessarily prove anything, except that he's pretty sure you at least at Town, which points to him more likely being Wolf than not this early in the game. Which, if you are a Wolf, could be a ploy to clear you as Town in the eyes of the rest of the Town. Which makes me unsure that you are actually Town.
That...is an interesting analysis. I think maybe our clash here is difference in playstyles.
Because what was "powerwolfing" about that to me would be that Red knows Silver would flip town. Powerwolfing isn't getting your own scumbud lynched, it's taking control and causing mislynches.
And I don't think it would point towards Gerrick knowing he's town. If Gerrick were scum here it would point to him either knowing both wagons are town/town or him lynching a scumbud for town cred.
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 04:08:50 AM
Post by: Minish on February 06, 2021, 04:11:20 AM
I think it was just slightly misguided town.
Post by: Red Mones on February 06, 2021, 04:13:13 AM
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 06, 2021, 04:17:27 AM
@Imaginative KaneThis day sure flew by fast and it was not fun (not the phase (though that was a lot to read through and I definitely have not studied it much)). He is/was a similar case to a few of the people who I marked as null or not much to go off of in that there is a bit to go off of, but I have not been able to get a read off of their posts yet.
I can understand why you feel a bit iffy of me seeing as you played scum with me. However, Ruguo has played with me quite a bit and he even admits himself it's hard to tell between my scum and town play. The game that me and you were scum in together, even the others from zd who I've played with a ton were town reading me, so during that game you were pretty much seeing town me.
I do appreciate the reads though. Can you explain your read on Ruguo? He's had quite a bit of posts so far, so a bit to go off of.
I could be willing to go along with the Ruguo and Vroendal votes but I am not that suspicious of either one at the moment. I will just vote for the one who I am most suspicious of right now.
Vote BSR
Post by: Minish on February 06, 2021, 04:45:58 AM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 06, 2021, 04:53:42 AM
Hmmm... I don't remember saying anything about hosting in that quote. It seems like you're putting words in my mouth, and I don't like that very much Red. I said exatly what you quoted- it's the same patterns I'm used to seeing from her. Remember that in Lau's werewolf last year that kinda died over the holidays Mel was in fact the one that sussed me out first- I understand how Mel works to a certain extent.SpoilerAlright, after a complete re-read of the game, here are my thoughts:MichiAfter a complete read through, I think the whole Michi thing was an absolute nothing-burger. Like, a tiny meta hint, that turned into a 5 person wagon? Kinda ridiculous, and @Melehan says something I'm inclined to agree with here:I'd also just like to point out that the now rather substantial lead Michi has in votes at the moment speaks to me of a wolf pile in there somewhere. We're not so much at multiple wagons as we are seeing The Michi Wagon & The Stragglers.And @Sapphiron:
For that reason, I don't believe Michi is actually scum, and I'd recommend looking closer at who has voted and still is voting for Michi up to this point.Shrugs Suspicious because I refused to join mountain out of molehill bandwagons in D1 phase, one of which proved to be wrong already. Since you asked, I provide some individuals who give me town vibes - Melehan (reaction tests are good), Vro (I like to see hesitation better than decisiveness in D1), Michi (part of the 2 main wagons of D1)Secondly, the same way Lau picked up Vro being "genuine" and ended up not voting him is the same way I see Michi right now. Genuine. The attitude I saw from Michi D1 was very much genuine annoyance in the way he was pushed hard against purely for a small meta hint (which as I pointed out I'm inclined to agree with).Especially here:I mean, if you're really that convinced, then please continue the train. It worked well enough in the last game where I was Smeagol, and since I was a turret 2 (technically 3 games since Summersend) games ago in Portal and that logic ended up proving correct in that game, then by all means incoporate it here.I've played with wolf Michi once before, and this isn't it.
As I said, I just want to play a vanilla game where we're not all at each other's throats D1 like it used to be, but if that makes me scum, then please do keep the train going and lynch me if you're that sure, I absolutely won't try to stop you.Here's where things get interesting though, Gerrick:RuguoYeah so I was kinda sus of Silv since D1. I mentioned that as town they were far more analytical, here they were throwing suspicion wherever they could, including Michi, Doc, BSR, Ogun, and like 2 more I can't remember. More let me throw out stuff and see what sticks instead of how can I logically deduce things. Also, another good observation by Mel here:Ruguo - Seems mighty eager to ascribe scummy intent to what are likely the actions of inexperienced players. Very carefully distancing themself from those plays.I also noticed Ruguo says:In all seriousness, I would ask you to not trust me as a host to learn how anyone plays, or remember it. When I'm on the other side, I'm gone. I'm laser focused on making things work, and unless there's a major infraction or a mod-request, I pretty much ignore who said what when and how.But then says:
I will apologize to Ogun if that is the case.Honestly, Mel isn't giving me scum vibes. Granted, I haven't played with a scum Mel and hosting games does warp your perspective quite a bit, but I'm honestly seeing the same patterns I'm used to seeing from her. It is day one, and she's far from off the hook altogether, but if I had to read based off of the data thus far, mal would have at least earned a spot in lime.Sort of a stretch, but from I'm reading it sounds like Silv says "I don't pay attention to meta as host" then says "Mel is town based on what I remember from playing with her and hosting. Mildly contradictory.GerrickSo Gerrick starts off with a joke vote on Michi. Vro starts the Michi meta catastrophe, and Gerrick uses this as a great opportunity to get a town lynched (assuming Michi is town, which I'm inclined to think). Only reasoning being "his responses to Vro rub me the wrong way" Not strong at all, but okay. Vro is listed as Town Lean in reads list. With little activity in between, they're now voting for Vroendal. What happened to Michi who was in Scum lean? I don't know, the jumping seems ridiculous at first, but makes sense from a scum perspective. Bank on Vro's push to get an easy town lynch, now that the tides turn against vro, bank on that to get another easy town lynch.
And that makes even more sense if we assume Vro is town, which honestly, I still am. The meta, the reactions, the questions, the activity, the genuine-ness (doesn't sound like a real word, but apparently it is) and as Sapph pointed out, the ultimate uncertainty on D1 all make me think he's still town. The votes against him are racking up. That scares me.
Anyway. I promised that if TGN gave me what I wanted, I would unvote.
Unvote
Now, it's presently looking like Vro is up for the chop, and me unvoting is not helping any other wagon get remotely close to it. I'm okay with a Vro lynch, but I would prefer a BSR lynch, even though that's not relaly on the table.
I did like Mel's observations about Min- there are some parallels when pointed out that reflect her behaviour as scum in the last game we played.
I didn't particularly like Michi's latest post- While is can appreciate random bugging of lurkers, now is not the time. It feels to me like he's trying to avoid being on one of the major wagons. And while yes, I am climbing off one and not immediately jumping to the other, I also won't be randomly starting a new wagon this close to EoD. Random lurkers are gonna get killed off anyway.
Sapph is still coming across rather short and uncomfy for me, but I promised an actual ISO before I moved on that, and the vote on him from earlier seems to have gone away, so it's not worth trying to start a wagon with so little time.
So my options remain Doc, TGN, Vro, Myself (I'm not libk, I'm not going to vote myself), ENE, or Alexander (Who's most likely looking at a modkill).
Of those, I don't think Doc is particularly scummy, and I just put a bunch of effort into getting TGN to contribute things, so I'm not voting there. I find it pointless to be on a wagon for a self vote or an inactive in imminent danger of dying, so that just leaves my owl pal.
Vote: Vroendal
At least your lynch will afford us information, even if you're not my first choice. You're hardly my last choice though, so okay? Okay.
I find the fact Ruguo voting for Michi almost in very close interval after Vro's suspicion post over Michi and then the vote switch and late voting looks completely off from his D1 methods . Also till the point it was TGN n Vro wagon going was certain , Ruguo stayed on TGN wagon . However once his wagon was coming up , he switched over to Vro , which i see as a safety measure to keep himself in .
Vote:Ruguo
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 06, 2021, 04:58:30 AM
Post by: Laurentus on February 06, 2021, 06:00:34 AM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807489496764514304/unknown.png)
And with that, Ruguo is our lynch.
Ruguo was the Female Titan.
Also, to clarify, yes, I did indeed say that inactivity lynches did not apply to the first day, so those of you affected get a free pass for one more day.
Starting the night phase now. Please send me your actions.
@ExLight is also subbing in for Alexander Valentine.
Let me also break the votes down more legibly.
Ruguo - 9 (Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Sapphiron, Minish, Michi, Melehan, Cozmikrae)
Vroendal - 5 (Ruguo, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Doc)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Eastern New England - 1 (Self)
Post by: Laurentus on February 06, 2021, 09:36:56 PM
Post by: Laurentus on February 06, 2021, 09:47:52 PM
Post by: Laurentus on February 07, 2021, 05:49:30 AM
Melehan, a vanilla Townie has been murdered by the Titans.
And with that, it's the start of day 3. I will end the phase in 48 hours and 11 minutes from this post.
Post by: Red Mones on February 07, 2021, 05:50:45 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 07, 2021, 05:52:24 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 07, 2021, 05:56:18 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 07, 2021, 05:58:42 AM
Vote: Gerrick
You still by far the highest on my scumspect list. I want to hear more from you.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 07, 2021, 06:01:44 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 07, 2021, 06:05:32 AM
I also want to hear thoughts from Sapph and Wisch sooner rather than later.
Wintermoot and BSR are some of the more suspicious votes against me yesterday from my perspective, their next moves will be interesting to observe.
Post by: Wischland on February 07, 2021, 06:07:22 AM
Here goes nothing:
Red Mones – pushed Ruguo way harder than they would have if they were scumbuds. Good vibes all around. Logical arguments, all that good stuff. Reading town.
NyghtOwl – Asking questions, providing own reasoning, seems to be thinking and acting on their own. Town.
Vro – Has driven lots of discussion with questions, accusations, etc. More information and discussion is always better for the town. Also the 2nd person to vote Ruguo. Posting style and tone is highly reminiscent of last game. I’m reading town.
Doc – Every argument has had a very logical progression. Push against Vro in D2 isn’t great, but reads more to me like an independent act, rather than anything coordinated with other wolves. Town lean.
Anubhav Ghosh – Posts here and there, with some reasoning and logic. Voting patterns so far check out, but not a ton to go on. Slight town lean.
Michi – Very quiet D2, but I can understand why. Voted Ruguo when Vro still had the lead if I recall correctly, so that’s good. Slight town lean.
Sapphiron – Still wish he posted more. But what he said D2 made a lot of sense and I’m in agreement with his assessments. Have nothing else against him, so eh, not really a point of concern for me anymore.
TGN – Chaos. Attempted some reasoning in there. Want to hear more of their thoughts, but I’m saying slight town lean
Imaginative Kane – Has made some contributions to discussion. They mainly seem to disagree with all the main bandwagons and are just kinda doing their own thing. Could be a sign of independent thinking, or could be scum trying to lay low by avoiding bandwagons. Don’t really have a read either way.
Gerrick – For the life of me, I can’t read him. I had the same problem last game. But people I trust are sussing him, so I’ll hesitantly say scum leaning.
Cozmikrae – Hmm, I’m on the fence. Has asked quite a few questions to prompt discussion. Voting seems kinda weird though. Quick vote of Red Mones D1 (yes, it’s D1, so not really putting tons of stock in it, but still), ended up voting Hapi. 1st to vote for TGN D2, assuming I’m not missing anything. Last person to vote for Ruguo, after explicitly giving Ruguo a chance to explain why it wasn’t them. Weird voting, but not really sure if it’s enough for me to sus as scum.
Wintermoot – Pushed against Vro for most of the game thus far. Also voted Red Mones D1, which may have been a random D1 vote, but I’m working with what we have so far. There’s some funkiness there. Slight scum lean.
BraveSirRobin – Minimal posting. Don’t really have a strong read, but the lack of a response to people pointing out he might be scum is kinda strange. Slight scum lean.
Minish – Has helped prompt a ton of discussion and make a lot of well-reasoned posts. But she just feels off to me. Besides the weird voting patterns, which were mentioned previously, her defense for her top reads plan D2 seems strange. She defended it strongly but admitted it had flaws, and went after Vro pretty hard. Maybe I just don’t appreciate how good Minish is but the fact that her one post defending herself basically boiled down to “If I was scum, I wouldn’t make a mistake” just makes me think she’s trying to use her reputation to patch up a weak spot in her townie appearance. It’s a lot to mull over, but she strikes me as kinda scummy. Could just be my lack of perspective though.
I think I hit everyone, besides those who were inactive/were subbed in. But if I missed someone just say who and I’ll give my thoughts there. Again, sorry for vanishing. Hopefully this give y’all a better idea of my thoughts right now.
Post by: Wischland on February 07, 2021, 06:07:43 AM
I would greatly like to hear ExLight's thoughts on Minish.Ask and thou shall receive. :P
I also want to hear thoughts from Sapph and Wisch sooner rather than later.
Wintermoot and BSR are some of the more suspicious votes against me yesterday from my perspective, their next moves will be interesting to observe.
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 06:10:00 AM
I would greatly like to hear ExLight's thoughts on Minish.
I also want to hear thoughts from Sapph and Wisch sooner rather than later.
Wintermoot and BSR are some of the more suspicious votes against me yesterday from my perspective, their next moves will be interesting to observe.
she seems town but I need more interactions to have a chance to figure her out
Post by: Vroendal on February 07, 2021, 06:12:26 AM
she seems town but I need more interactions to have a chance to figure her outThat's fair, and I know you'd want to get into your groove for this game.
Is there anything specific you can tell me that makes you think she's town?
Post by: Red Mones on February 07, 2021, 06:17:21 AM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 07, 2021, 06:52:57 AM
This is also something I am wondering about after reading through posts on the topic.Jesus christ I can never survive werewolf games, already 6 pages!
Lets be cautious shall we, I don't think it would be good to accidentally kill an innocent townie, like me of course :D
I'd also like an explanation why we all want to kill Michi, before of course I jump on the bandwagon...?
Eager to jump on a bandwagon, are we? I dunno Ogun, this whole seems a little off to me... planting the idea you're town really early into D1, suggesting caution on a wagon of three (I think) when we've got so much room before hammer, then offering to jump on the wagon?
Ogun, are you trying to distance yourself from Michi? Are you two scumbuds?
For now I will use my No Lynch vote but that will change later on since I am sure some other players will eventually look more suspicious.
Melehan has been triggering some of my suspicion because from what I remember when reading and playing previous Werewolf games, the players who were committed to a role in all of their posts were usually evil or just hiding something. Hapi in the last game proved an exception to the evil players posting in character but I think the Batman game had a few cases like that (and then there are the "generic Batman quotes").
Ruguo was a Titan and here he tried to frame Michi and Ogun as scumbuds . From what I understand from the posts later on , Ogun is inexperienced and hence the joking post and subsequent framing by Ruguo seems impulsive . The fact that Kane supported this rather miniscule evidence makes my FoS pointed at him , as in the later point in the game we see him giving some independent analysis , but this one case of him going with Ruguo rings off to me
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 07:03:18 AM
You wildly misrepresent my defense of the plan. Yeah a small part of the reasoning was that I wouldn't have made that mistake as scum, but that wasn't even the main part of it. The whole point was about getting people to leave a trail of information after they flipped so weren't just left in the dark with nothing once our docs/cop died. Also the fact that I had just woke up and town doesn't have to necessarily think through everything they post like scum does.
Also I don't get the whole "weird voting patterns" thing against me. @ExLight can tell you those are pretty normal voting patterns for ZD.
I was one of the first person to voice suspicions about Ruguo d1. I was really considering voting him then but he was far from a major topic of discussion and I couldn't really make a push right before going to bed and get people on board. So I left my vote on someone who was a potential lynch candidate, because going to bed and not being around for eod means you kinda have to try to do your best with what you think might happen.
Also like, I broke the tie between Silver and Vro by voting for Silver. Y'all severly underestimate the amount of bussing I'll do for town cred. Like that is not my method of bussing at all. I would have 100% voted Silver d1 before I went to bed in that case.
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 07:05:17 AM
So I just wanna note that with Mel gone, town effectively has no leader. This is a great opportunity for wolves to powerwolf there way to new town leader. We've jsut added 3 new powerful players to the game. I guarantee at least one is scum, as having all 4 be town would be ridiculously unbalanced and I don't expect that from Lau as host. So yeah, be careful. I think we've got a good town-core of Me, Vro, Cozmik, and Nyght going. None of us are on the same level as what Mel was bringing to the table, certainly not at the level of Minish, Ex, etc.
It's out of Laur's hand for what alignment the new players would be. They can only replace into the role their predecessor was. And at least on ZD hosts don't mess with role assignment at all.
Post by: Red Mones on February 07, 2021, 07:06:43 AM
Ruguo was a Titan and here he tried to frame Michi and Ogun as scumbuds . From what I understand from the posts later on , Ogun is inexperienced and hence the joking post and subsequent framing by Ruguo seems impulsive . The fact that Kane supported this rather miniscule evidence makes my FoS pointed at him , as in the later point in the game we see him giving some independent analysis , but this one case of him going with Ruguo rings off to meOgun was removed from the game.
Post by: Red Mones on February 07, 2021, 07:08:35 AM
Eh, still. I would expect at least 1 of you guys is scum.So I just wanna note that with Mel gone, town effectively has no leader. This is a great opportunity for wolves to powerwolf there way to new town leader. We've jsut added 3 new powerful players to the game. I guarantee at least one is scum, as having all 4 be town would be ridiculously unbalanced and I don't expect that from Lau as host. So yeah, be careful. I think we've got a good town-core of Me, Vro, Cozmik, and Nyght going. None of us are on the same level as what Mel was bringing to the table, certainly not at the level of Minish, Ex, etc.
It's out of Laur's hand for what alignment the new players would be. They can only replace into the role their predecessor was. And at least on ZD hosts don't mess with role assignment at all.
Post by: Vroendal on February 07, 2021, 07:09:56 AM
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 07:17:32 AM
Ruguo - 1 (Red Mones)
Red Mones - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
Ruguo - 9 (Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Sapphiron, Minish, Michi, Melehan, Cozmikrae)
Vroendal - 5 (Ruguo, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Doc)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Eastern New England - 1 (Self)
Post by: Red Mones on February 07, 2021, 07:23:14 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 07, 2021, 07:23:43 AM
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 07:24:12 AM
Minish, would you perhaps be willing to make a new reads list? If we proceed in thinking that you're town, I'm curious to see where you would lead us next. I want to believe you, but it would help me if you led a charge against scum today, ya know?
It'll be a while til I get around to making a reads lisf because I have to look back at everything with the recent flips in mind. I stopped doing that kind of work during nights when I would get nk'd early all the time. Haha.
I will say that if you're town then it's likely there's at least 1-2 more scum on your wagon from yesterday. I feel like scum would try to push you to save Ruguo there, because it wasn't a certain thing til closer to eod. I still think Nyght is town so that leaves BSR, Winter, and Doc. I'd have to look at when exactly votes happened and everything.
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 07:25:36 AM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 07, 2021, 07:26:07 AM
Ruguo was a Titan and here he tried to frame Michi and Ogun as scumbuds . From what I understand from the posts later on , Ogun is inexperienced and hence the joking post and subsequent framing by Ruguo seems impulsive . The fact that Kane supported this rather miniscule evidence makes my FoS pointed at him , as in the later point in the game we see him giving some independent analysis , but this one case of him going with Ruguo rings off to meOgun was removed from the game.
Not on D1 , when he was a suspect for lead-with-no-evidence sort of reasoning by Ruguo , which Kane supported , and this looks eerie when compared to his independent reasoning in later parts of the game
Post by: Red Mones on February 07, 2021, 07:27:45 AM
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 07, 2021, 07:36:54 AM
Thinking about that post now. I probably should have realized that at least some of that post was a joke by Ogun. I did not realize that at the time and being suspicious of bandwagons goes hand in hand with my tendency to avoid them regardless of if I am town or scum. I tend to just latch on to whatever pieces of "evidence" I see to justify being suspicious of a player. Here is an example from a previous game. The evidence (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6406.msg145138#msg145138) Ruguo breaking down that evidence (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6406.msg145217#msg145217). I will say though that with Ogun I do not actually have a grasp of their meta. They have just been lurking in each game I have played with them from what I remember (or killed early). That is not important now though seeing how he has been substituted. I understand your suspicion but all I can really is that I am still grasping at straws, I just as you say am grasping my own straws. In the previous day I was just making shots in the dark since I was not keeping up well and I would be surprised if I manage to keep up well with this day phase. Now I know I was wrong to suspect Melehan and that Ruguo was scum so I definitely need to do some reevaluating.This is also something I am wondering about after reading through posts on the topic.Jesus christ I can never survive werewolf games, already 6 pages!
Lets be cautious shall we, I don't think it would be good to accidentally kill an innocent townie, like me of course :D
I'd also like an explanation why we all want to kill Michi, before of course I jump on the bandwagon...?
Eager to jump on a bandwagon, are we? I dunno Ogun, this whole seems a little off to me... planting the idea you're town really early into D1, suggesting caution on a wagon of three (I think) when we've got so much room before hammer, then offering to jump on the wagon?
Ogun, are you trying to distance yourself from Michi? Are you two scumbuds?
For now I will use my No Lynch vote but that will change later on since I am sure some other players will eventually look more suspicious.
Melehan has been triggering some of my suspicion because from what I remember when reading and playing previous Werewolf games, the players who were committed to a role in all of their posts were usually evil or just hiding something. Hapi in the last game proved an exception to the evil players posting in character but I think the Batman game had a few cases like that (and then there are the "generic Batman quotes").
Ruguo was a Titan and here he tried to frame Michi and Ogun as scumbuds . From what I understand from the posts later on , Ogun is inexperienced and hence the joking post and subsequent framing by Ruguo seems impulsive . The fact that Kane supported this rather miniscule evidence makes my FoS pointed at him , as in the later point in the game we see him giving some independent analysis , but this one case of him going with Ruguo rings off to me
I have some suspicion of Gerrick after reexamining some other games but they could just be playing like in that game I referred to where they were just town. I don't remember seeing them being that chaotic before though.
But yeah I need to do some rereading (whether or not that ends up helping or confusing me more remains to be seen).
Post by: Red Mones on February 07, 2021, 07:40:30 AM
Post by: HumanDawn on February 07, 2021, 07:52:18 AM
Post by: HumanDawn on February 07, 2021, 08:00:49 AM
In the time before the Walls, yea, before the Titans roamed the Earth, a prophecy was spoken (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg155240#msg155240). Generations have risen and fallen in the centuries since, during which the fall of Humanity was all but assured, if not for the Walls.
And now, the Walls demand Sacrifice! For the sake of Humanity's survival, there must be blood offered!
Vote: HapiSpoilerIn all seriousness, I'm doing this for the lulz because it's not like we have any better reason to vote anyone off this early in D1.
I feel the spoiler was unnecessary - you didn’t need to explain it was a joke. When somebody overexplains something, it implies they have something to hide and want their tracks covered. Contextually, it almost beats the purpose of the vote by explaining it.
Post by: Red Mones on February 07, 2021, 08:03:35 AM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 07, 2021, 08:06:04 AM
Post by: HumanDawn on February 07, 2021, 08:13:44 AM
I have some experience. And I have to say, some of the reactions have been Interesting.In the time before the Walls, yea, before the Titans roamed the Earth, a prophecy was spoken (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg155240#msg155240). Generations have risen and fallen in the centuries since, during which the fall of Humanity was all but assured, if not for the Walls.
And now, the Walls demand Sacrifice! For the sake of Humanity's survival, there must be blood offered!
Vote: HapiSpoilerIn all seriousness, I'm doing this for the lulz because it's not like we have any better reason to vote anyone off this early in D1.
Quick question for you or anyone else here that has played a lot. Are you newer to mafia or do you have some experience? I do have reason for asking this. Haha.
I was originally asking because the part in your spoiler seemed a little overly cautious. Like sometimes I feel like scum feels the need to over explain something to try not to look scummy.
But this response seemed a little more townie, mentioning the reactions, so I'm back at square one.
What about the response seemed “a little more townie”? What does Melehan saying he has experience have anything to do with the overexplaining? You seem to be giving them a bone a bit too easily here for only answering they have experience - how does Melehan having experience corellate forgive overexplaining themselves?
Post by: HumanDawn on February 07, 2021, 08:18:40 AM
I am getting the sense that we might need to lynch Michi based on meta.
That was a really good catch, Vro, and something I would have never picked up on. I don't think we're in any danger of a hammer at all with this many players, so let's go for a little more pressure.
Unvote
Vote: Michi
Care to explain yourself?
Yeah this is definitely buddying to get on Vroendal’s good side. Vote on Michi looks opportunistic too.
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 08:26:17 AM
I have some experience. And I have to say, some of the reactions have been Interesting.In the time before the Walls, yea, before the Titans roamed the Earth, a prophecy was spoken (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg155240#msg155240). Generations have risen and fallen in the centuries since, during which the fall of Humanity was all but assured, if not for the Walls.
And now, the Walls demand Sacrifice! For the sake of Humanity's survival, there must be blood offered!
Vote: HapiSpoilerIn all seriousness, I'm doing this for the lulz because it's not like we have any better reason to vote anyone off this early in D1.
Quick question for you or anyone else here that has played a lot. Are you newer to mafia or do you have some experience? I do have reason for asking this. Haha.
I was originally asking because the part in your spoiler seemed a little overly cautious. Like sometimes I feel like scum feels the need to over explain something to try not to look scummy.
But this response seemed a little more townie, mentioning the reactions, so I'm back at square one.
What about the response seemed “a little more townie”? What does Melehan saying he has experience have anything to do with the overexplaining? You seem to be giving them a bone a bit too easily here for only answering they have experience - how does Melehan having experience corellate forgive overexplaining themselves?
Those were two different things. The over explanation looked potentially scummy to me, but I didn't know how if Melehan was new to the game (because I can see new town players over explaining like that).
The fact that she mentioned the reactions was what felt more townie. I'm not personally a fan of reaction testing like that, but I could understand it coming from a town mindset.
It should be noted that Melehan just flipped vanilla town as well.
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 09:39:10 AM
@WischlandI actually raised an eyebrow at some point because the votes seemed a bit all over the place lmao
Also I don't get the whole "weird voting patterns" thing against me. @ExLight can tell you those are pretty normal voting patterns for ZD.
I was one of the first person to voice suspicions about Ruguo d1. I was really considering voting him then but he was far from a major topic of discussion and I couldn't really make a push right before going to bed and get people on board. So I left my vote on someone who was a potential lynch candidate, because going to bed and not being around for eod means you kinda have to try to do your best with what you think might happen.
Also like, I broke the tie between Silver and Vro by voting for Silver. Y'all severly underestimate the amount of bussing I'll do for town cred. Like that is not my method of bussing at all. I would have 100% voted Silver d1 before I went to bed in that case.
But considering it felt like the complete opposite as you in this last game where you had much more dry and fixed votes I didn’t really pay it much mind
I can’t really speak about it being normal because I don’t really get what they’re finding unnatural in the first place so
I’m a bit curious about your push on Silver tho, I might be misremembering but you kinda pressured him and the basically-Storm dude (TGS the name I think?) when there weren’t many people interested in them, wasn’t there anyone from your scumleans with a growing wagon at the time? why try to start one on them?
this last part about “this is not my bussing style” is WIFOM and you know that lmao
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 10:11:45 AM
I am new to these forums so I probably haven't spoken to anybody here before. Please feel free to interact with me, debate with me or ask questions to me. I want to get to know you all a little better so it's easier for me to read you and you read me.
Background: I have played one past mafia game and am currently in another ongoing game. If you'd like me to link any previous games, please let me know. I'm new to playing mafia on a forum but I've spectated games for a while on other forums and played before on discord.
Hope this helps you out, I'm here if you have anything to ask me!
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 10:15:42 AM
@WischlandI actually raised an eyebrow at some point because the votes seemed a bit all over the place lmao
Also I don't get the whole "weird voting patterns" thing against me. @ExLight can tell you those are pretty normal voting patterns for ZD.
I was one of the first person to voice suspicions about Ruguo d1. I was really considering voting him then but he was far from a major topic of discussion and I couldn't really make a push right before going to bed and get people on board. So I left my vote on someone who was a potential lynch candidate, because going to bed and not being around for eod means you kinda have to try to do your best with what you think might happen.
Also like, I broke the tie between Silver and Vro by voting for Silver. Y'all severly underestimate the amount of bussing I'll do for town cred. Like that is not my method of bussing at all. I would have 100% voted Silver d1 before I went to bed in that case.
But considering it felt like the complete opposite as you in this last game where you had much more dry and fixed votes I didn’t really pay it much mind
I can’t really speak about it being normal because I don’t really get what they’re finding unnatural in the first place so
I’m a bit curious about your push on Silver tho, I might be misremembering but you kinda pressured him and the basically-Storm dude (TGS the name I think?) when there weren’t many people interested in them, wasn’t there anyone from your scumleans with a growing wagon at the time? why try to start one on them?
this last part about “this is not my bussing style” is WIFOM and you know that lmao
I've definitely had games where I jump votes around early on due to lack of no real solid lead. But you are right that as scum I tend to stick to votes because I know what I'm going for and have a lot more information.
TGN? Ruguo was probably my biggest gut feeling scum lean just because we've played with him enough. But he's also only been scum once so I was uncertain. TGN was definitely part of the focus when I voted him though. That's part of why I abandoned Ruguo at the time to push TGN, because I thought he was more viable. I didn't really have any other scum leans at the time other than just a list of people I narrowed down from d1 vote. But nothing solid there. Doc made a good point about Vro and TGN being possibly connected and I wanted to explore that. I was back and forth on Vro. You can see I argued with him for quite a while but never voted him nor did I ever really I thought he was scum, but rather I saw scum motivation behind some of his actions. I was really wanting to figure out if he was town, especially after last game when I first scum read him and so did everyone else. But he got me on the same page and the heat lessened. I needed to get to that same place with him again. And so I didn't want to join the growing wagon on Vro to explore that connection because I wasn't sold. But TGN was in my PoE as well, and was being generally unhelpful.
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 10:18:38 AM
Forgot to address that last part. It's not really wifom when it's completely against my meta. Why would I do a worse play as scum to get suspicion on me rather than something I know works and knows get me town cred. It doesn't help me to change my scum play if it's a worse play.
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 10:31:06 AM
If people are aware of their own meta as each alignment they can easily fake it and just point out how out of place it is lol
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 10:32:57 AM
This is because in situations with an odd number of players, a no lynch actually reduces the number of actual lynches we would have. So no lynching doesn't actually give us an extra day in this game - it gives us the same number of days but with one less chance to kill a suspicious person (at the end of the game, we will be left with 4 people rather than 3 if we no lynch).
Sorry for the weird post but I know there are inexperienced players in this game and just wanted to clarify that to everyone.
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 10:36:31 AM
Whether or not it’s against your meta is for the other players to decide, otherwise it’s WIFOM yeet
If people are aware of their own meta as each alignment they can easily fake it and just point out how out of place it is lol
Not entirely. Most of these people don't know my meta. I can link scum games to show it's not. I already linked our recent game. You also know it's not my meta.
And I just explained why that wasn't the case. Haha. I'm not going to play worse so that I can change up my meta. You know I have pretty strict views on mafia and think that you always play the best and don't do suboptimal moves even if they could have minor benefits.
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 10:45:39 AM
girl I thought I knew your meta but you had me fooled so hard last game so LIKE I can’t evenWhether or not it’s against your meta is for the other players to decide, otherwise it’s WIFOM yeet
If people are aware of their own meta as each alignment they can easily fake it and just point out how out of place it is lol
Not entirely. Most of these people don't know my meta. I can link scum games to show it's not. I already linked our recent game. You also know it's not my meta.
And I just explained why that wasn't the case. Haha. I'm not going to play worse so that I can change up my meta. You know I have pretty strict views on mafia and think that you always play the best and don't do suboptimal moves even if they could have minor benefits.
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 10:51:52 AM
girl I thought I knew your meta but you had me fooled so hard last game so LIKE I can’t evenWhether or not it’s against your meta is for the other players to decide, otherwise it’s WIFOM yeet
If people are aware of their own meta as each alignment they can easily fake it and just point out how out of place it is lol
Not entirely. Most of these people don't know my meta. I can link scum games to show it's not. I already linked our recent game. You also know it's not my meta.
And I just explained why that wasn't the case. Haha. I'm not going to play worse so that I can change up my meta. You know I have pretty strict views on mafia and think that you always play the best and don't do suboptimal moves even if they could have minor benefits.
That was my meta though. I played scum there like I played scum in MTG. Just a bit different because I showed a little more hesitance on my scumbud in MTG, but I still went through with lynching them.
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 11:17:44 AM
eh I guessgirl I thought I knew your meta but you had me fooled so hard last game so LIKE I can’t evenWhether or not it’s against your meta is for the other players to decide, otherwise it’s WIFOM yeet
If people are aware of their own meta as each alignment they can easily fake it and just point out how out of place it is lol
Not entirely. Most of these people don't know my meta. I can link scum games to show it's not. I already linked our recent game. You also know it's not my meta.
And I just explained why that wasn't the case. Haha. I'm not going to play worse so that I can change up my meta. You know I have pretty strict views on mafia and think that you always play the best and don't do suboptimal moves even if they could have minor benefits.
That was my meta though. I played scum there like I played scum in MTG. Just a bit different because I showed a little more hesitance on my scumbud in MTG, but I still went through with lynching them.
I’m not really tunneling on a possible bus here anyway, I’m more interested in other wagonomics maybe
on a side note why is the notification system so jank :aaaAAA:
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 11:23:28 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 11:30:18 AM
You mean other wagonomics like how I was on Michi for a decent reason d1 and not the Hapi lynch that went through for no real reason? Yeah Michi might just be town at this point but you can't deny that Hapi wagon was way worse and easier.I uh
I’d’ve gone with the Hapi’s wagon to be honest lol
She isn’t very cooperative and I really wouldn’t want paranoia about her being scum kicking in during -Lo
I actually liked Michi during D1? The main argument against them was meta and he provided a pretty solid defense to me debunking it
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 11:36:56 AM
You mean other wagonomics like how I was on Michi for a decent reason d1 and not the Hapi lynch that went through for no real reason? Yeah Michi might just be town at this point but you can't deny that Hapi wagon was way worse and easier.I uh
I’d’ve gone with the Hapi’s wagon to be honest lol
She isn’t very cooperative and I really wouldn’t want paranoia about her being scum kicking in during -Lo
I actually liked Michi during D1? The main argument against them was meta and he provided a pretty solid defense to me debunking it
The Hapi wagon was bad. You don't lynch someone just for their playstyle, otherwise you'll lynch them d1 every time and they'll never get the chance to improve. Plus it was the easy one for that reason.
Michi didn't have super solid defense to me. I wasn't entirely sold on the meta thing but it did make sense and you have to agree was more solid reasoning than "Hapi plays bad".
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 11:43:05 AM
Isn’t this sort of unhelpful/destructive behavior that tilted you on TGN? I’ll lynch people like him and Storm D1 over any other Day anyday ty.
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 11:46:54 AM
It’s not about Hapi playing bad, it’s about her wanting to spread chaos over helping her team lol
Isn’t this sort of unhelpful/destructive behavior that tilted you on TGN? I’ll lynch people like him and Storm D1 over any other Day anyday ty.
Same difference. People think that's a bad play.
And not entirely. It was part of the reason. But a big part was Doc pointing out the connection between Vro and TGN, and that he also seemed to not be helpful last game when he was scum. Plus he was in my PoE.
You know I fundamentally disagree with that idea and think it's a bad move that gives scum an easy lynch and lets them get away with it.
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 11:51:33 AM
It’s... it’s not the same? She seems to do it willingly, if it was just like inexperience or overall bad plays with good intentions I’d’ve defended her but it really doesn’t seem like the case.It’s not about Hapi playing bad, it’s about her wanting to spread chaos over helping her team lol
Isn’t this sort of unhelpful/destructive behavior that tilted you on TGN? I’ll lynch people like him and Storm D1 over any other Day anyday ty.
Same difference. People think that's a bad play.
And not entirely. It was part of the reason. But a big part was Doc pointing out the connection between Vro and TGN, and that he also seemed to not be helpful last game when he was scum. Plus he was in my PoE.
You know I fundamentally disagree with that idea and think it's a bad move that gives scum an easy lynch and lets them get away with it.
I think I missed the correlation between Vro and TGN. In any case are you still scumreading them after that last second explosion on Silver’s wagon saving Vro?
btw if you’re Town I think you were the blocked scum kill N1 considering how Silver flipped scum and how much he seems to be terrified of/idolize you
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 12:03:24 PM
It’s... it’s not the same? She seems to do it willingly, if it was just like inexperience or overall bad plays with good intentions I’d’ve defended her but it really doesn’t seem like the case.It’s not about Hapi playing bad, it’s about her wanting to spread chaos over helping her team lol
Isn’t this sort of unhelpful/destructive behavior that tilted you on TGN? I’ll lynch people like him and Storm D1 over any other Day anyday ty.
Same difference. People think that's a bad play.
And not entirely. It was part of the reason. But a big part was Doc pointing out the connection between Vro and TGN, and that he also seemed to not be helpful last game when he was scum. Plus he was in my PoE.
You know I fundamentally disagree with that idea and think it's a bad move that gives scum an easy lynch and lets them get away with it.
I think I missed the correlation between Vro and TGN. In any case are you still scumreading them after that last second explosion on Silver’s wagon saving Vro?
btw if you’re Town I think you were the blocked scum kill N1 considering how Silver flipped scum and how much he seems to be terrified of/idolize you
Bad doesn't just mean inexperienced or with good intentions. Bad just means not helpful or leads to bad results.
Doc pointed out how Vro and TGN seemed unwilling to vote each other to save themselves. How Vro kept talking about voting Ruguo but never actually did. And was hoping that maybe the wagon would take off to be a viable wagon against him and TGN, assuming they were scumbuds.
I actually unvoted TGN and voted Silver last phase because I woke up and saw that TGN said something I kinda saw as a derp clear which I was surprised no one else pointed out. Someone asked him for reads on certain people, one being Ruguo. And his read for Ruguo was something like "isn't that the host?". I felt like if he were scum he would have interacted with with Laur enough to know he's the host, but instead is just town that is paying so little attention. The iffy thing about TGN though is that Silver voted for him, prodded him to play better (possibly like coaching a scumbud in public), and fairly easily backed off of him.
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 12:11:38 PM
that’s interesting
do we know if TGN is the kinda person that could risk a fake derp like this?
I’ll recheck it soon to see if I get the same impressions
just lemme finish something here and I’ll comment on stuff I bookmarked yesterday too
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 12:15:08 PM
so I’m pretty sure he’s aware Lau is the host. Him “derping” could’ve been him doubling down on this joke so I really don’t think we should consider that viable evidence in any way
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 12:17:12 PM
I don't know tbh. He seems to be new to mafia and new to this site. So it's possible.oh hmm
still, I don’t think this changes much for me
in any case even if it was a derp he would have both Lau and Silver in the scumchat which makes more sense to me than him only getting dms from Lau and thinking silver is the host
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 12:17:57 PM
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 12:19:36 PM
I don't know tbh. He seems to be new to mafia and new to this site. So it's possible.oh hmm
still, I don’t think this changes much for me
in any case even if it was a derp he would have both Lau and Silver in the scumchat which makes more sense to me than him only getting dms from Lau and thinking silver is the host
True about him and Silver being together with Laur in a scumchat.
Though vanilla townies didn't get PMs this game so unless he's a power role (which I hope not), he wouldn't be getting any PMs from Laur.
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 12:23:20 PM
Post by: Gerrick on February 07, 2021, 12:24:51 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 12:29:34 PM
Woke up at 6 and don't have time to read through 4 pages before going to work. Got a ping on Discord from Red, so I suspect I have votes on me.I’m sorry what
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 12:35:02 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 12:37:12 PM
Best option might be using the forum’s search feature on this subforum, and filter by person and date.
...welp
Post by: Laurentus on February 07, 2021, 12:39:12 PM
Quick question: do we have any way to filter the thread so we can just see one person's posts in this forum? I think this would make trying to read people leagues easier for me.
We don't, unfortunately, have an ISO feature.
We do have a hacky workaround, though:
At the bottom of the thread, click More > Print. In that print view, you can then use your ctrl+f function on PC, or however you find stuff on phone, and then type in: "post by: [insert name]"
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 12:41:10 PM
I don’t think they do.Thanks, I'll probably skim through the entire thread when I want to make opinions on specific people... at least that way I might catch something from somebody else and hopefully get a better understanding of everyone's personalities.
Best option might be using the forum’s search feature on this subforum, and filter by person and date.
...welp
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 12:43:15 PM
Quick question: do we have any way to filter the thread so we can just see one person's posts in this forum? I think this would make trying to read people leagues easier for me.
We don't, unfortunately, have an ISO feature.
We do have a hacky workaround, though:
At the bottom of the thread, click More > Print. In that print view, you can then use your ctrl+f function on PC, or however you find stuff on phone, and then type in: "post by: [insert name]"
Thank you, honestly the print view will make it a lot easier to reread the thread even if I don't need to ISO somebody.
Post by: Laurentus on February 07, 2021, 12:53:15 PM
Visual Tutorial for how print view works on an Android phone with Chrome
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807955265538359326/Screenshot_20210207-144051_Chrome.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807955266154004510/Screenshot_20210207-144212_Chrome.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807955266473033738/Screenshot_20210207-144353_Chrome.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807955266154004510/Screenshot_20210207-144212_Chrome.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807955266473033738/Screenshot_20210207-144353_Chrome.jpg)
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 01:15:56 PM
Best game host ever!Visual Tutorial for how print view works on an Android phone with Chrome(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807955265538359326/Screenshot_20210207-144051_Chrome.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807955266154004510/Screenshot_20210207-144212_Chrome.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/807955266473033738/Screenshot_20210207-144353_Chrome.jpg)
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
that's actually nice
not being able to quote while in it tho ùmú
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 07, 2021, 01:43:03 PM
Post by: Sapphiron on February 07, 2021, 01:50:08 PM
So I ask you one more time: Opinions on the following players:Okay, basically Ruguo threw out a list of people he happened to be casting suspicions all over, and seeing he flipped red, there should be at least 1 wolf within the list, at least I do not think an experienced player would go to the extent of allowing Townies to create a core of 6 upon death.
Vro, Me, BSR, Sapph
And optionally: Red, Michi
Post by: Melehan on February 07, 2021, 01:55:50 PM
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/bd920569f493536936d202ae413e9155/tumblr_mx3ppk4Kg21szp5bco4_500.gifv)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/03c8797b70b39b2d2d151cb06948d3c9/tumblr_mx3ppk4Kg21szp5bco2_r1_500.gifv)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/044a39e7ef87ab848791c7b5422bbe69/tumblr_mx3ppk4Kg21szp5bco1_500.gifv)
I gladly give my life for the sake of the Town the Walls shelter! For Maria! For Rose! For Sina!
Do not let my death be in vain!
Heed the Words of our Goddesses, and Humanity Shall Prevail!
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 01:56:00 PM
hi, I think you’re scumSo I ask you one more time: Opinions on the following players:Okay, basically Ruguo threw out a list of people he happened to be casting suspicions all over, and seeing he flipped red, there should be at least 1 wolf within the list, at least I do not think an experienced player would go to the extent of allowing Townies to create a core of 6 upon death.
Vro, Me, BSR, Sapph
And optionally: Red, Michi
Post by: Sapphiron on February 07, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
Post by: TGN on February 07, 2021, 02:02:03 PM
Goal: Hit 2,000 karma by the end of this game.I will like all your post to get you to that goal
yeah... I could see that. I'm trying my best to help now, considering the early game ended and joke votes at this point is frowned apun so I'll stop.@WischlandI actually raised an eyebrow at some point because the votes seemed a bit all over the place lmao
Also I don't get the whole "weird voting patterns" thing against me. @ExLight can tell you those are pretty normal voting patterns for ZD.
I was one of the first person to voice suspicions about Ruguo d1. I was really considering voting him then but he was far from a major topic of discussion and I couldn't really make a push right before going to bed and get people on board. So I left my vote on someone who was a potential lynch candidate, because going to bed and not being around for eod means you kinda have to try to do your best with what you think might happen.
Also like, I broke the tie between Silver and Vro by voting for Silver. Y'all severly underestimate the amount of bussing I'll do for town cred. Like that is not my method of bussing at all. I would have 100% voted Silver d1 before I went to bed in that case.
But considering it felt like the complete opposite as you in this last game where you had much more dry and fixed votes I didn’t really pay it much mind
I can’t really speak about it being normal because I don’t really get what they’re finding unnatural in the first place so
I’m a bit curious about your push on Silver tho, I might be misremembering but you kinda pressured him and the basically-Storm dude (TGS the name I think?) when there weren’t many people interested in them, wasn’t there anyone from your scumleans with a growing wagon at the time? why try to start one on them?
this last part about “this is not my bussing style” is WIFOM and you know that lmao
I've definitely had games where I jump votes around early on due to lack of no real solid lead. But you are right that as scum I tend to stick to votes because I know what I'm going for and have a lot more information.
TGN? Ruguo was probably my biggest gut feeling scum lean just because we've played with him enough. But he's also only been scum once so I was uncertain. TGN was definitely part of the focus when I voted him though. That's part of why I abandoned Ruguo at the time to push TGN, because I thought he was more viable. I didn't really have any other scum leans at the time other than just a list of people I narrowed down from d1 vote. But nothing solid there. Doc made a good point about Vro and TGN being possibly connected and I wanted to explore that. I was back and forth on Vro. You can see I argued with him for quite a while but never voted him nor did I ever really I thought he was scum, but rather I saw scum motivation behind some of his actions. I was really wanting to figure out if he was town, especially after last game when I first scum read him and so did everyone else. But he got me on the same page and the heat lessened. I needed to get to that same place with him again. And so I didn't want to join the growing wagon on Vro to explore that connection because I wasn't sold. But TGN was in my PoE as well, and was being generally unhelpful.
to explain my reasoningIt’s... it’s not the same? She seems to do it willingly, if it was just like inexperience or overall bad plays with good intentions I’d’ve defended her but it really doesn’t seem like the case.It’s not about Hapi playing bad, it’s about her wanting to spread chaos over helping her team lol
Isn’t this sort of unhelpful/destructive behavior that tilted you on TGN? I’ll lynch people like him and Storm D1 over any other Day anyday ty.
Same difference. People think that's a bad play.
And not entirely. It was part of the reason. But a big part was Doc pointing out the connection between Vro and TGN, and that he also seemed to not be helpful last game when he was scum. Plus he was in my PoE.
You know I fundamentally disagree with that idea and think it's a bad move that gives scum an easy lynch and lets them get away with it.
I think I missed the correlation between Vro and TGN. In any case are you still scumreading them after that last second explosion on Silver’s wagon saving Vro?
btw if you’re Town I think you were the blocked scum kill N1 considering how Silver flipped scum and how much he seems to be terrified of/idolize you
Bad doesn't just mean inexperienced or with good intentions. Bad just means not helpful or leads to bad results.
Doc pointed out how Vro and TGN seemed unwilling to vote each other to save themselves. How Vro kept talking about voting Ruguo but never actually did. And was hoping that maybe the wagon would take off to be a viable wagon against him and TGN, assuming they were scumbuds.
I actually unvoted TGN and voted Silver last phase because I woke up and saw that TGN said something I kinda saw as a derp clear which I was surprised no one else pointed out. Someone asked him for reads on certain people, one being Ruguo. And his read for Ruguo was something like "isn't that the host?". I felt like if he were scum he would have interacted with with Laur enough to know he's the host, but instead is just town that is paying so little attention. The iffy thing about TGN though is that Silver voted for him, prodded him to play better (possibly like coaching a scumbud in public), and fairly easily backed off of him.
why I did not vote
I just didn't, I couldn't get myself to do it. I'm not so trigger happy like I was in the first day (not counting D1 of this game because they were joke votes)
Quick question: do we have any way to filter the thread so we can just see one person's posts in this forum? I think this would make trying to read people leagues easier for me.in the home menu, there is a search option, filter out the topic, find an author, and read through
Post by: TGN on February 07, 2021, 02:04:49 PM
Well... that was quickhi, I think you’re scumSo I ask you one more time: Opinions on the following players:Okay, basically Ruguo threw out a list of people he happened to be casting suspicions all over, and seeing he flipped red, there should be at least 1 wolf within the list, at least I do not think an experienced player would go to the extent of allowing Townies to create a core of 6 upon death.
Vro, Me, BSR, Sapph
And optionally: Red, Michi
DEADwhat are these gifs and how can I put them on a birthday card?
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/bd920569f493536936d202ae413e9155/tumblr_mx3ppk4Kg21szp5bco4_500.gifv)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/03c8797b70b39b2d2d151cb06948d3c9/tumblr_mx3ppk4Kg21szp5bco2_r1_500.gifv)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/044a39e7ef87ab848791c7b5422bbe69/tumblr_mx3ppk4Kg21szp5bco1_500.gifv)
I gladly give my life for the sake of the Town the Walls shelter! For Maria! For Rose! For Sina!
Do not let my death be in vain!
Heed the Words of our Goddesses, and Humanity Shall Prevail!
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 02:18:51 PM
Hi, understandable considering my lurky playstyle. Anything else to add?no not really
I still have to make a case on you but wanted to get that out of the way
Post by: Sapphiron on February 07, 2021, 02:22:19 PM
Lmao make that 5, didn't see the "Me" as in Ruguo. Anyway,So I ask you one more time: Opinions on the following players:Okay, basically Ruguo threw out a list of people he happened to be casting suspicions all over, and seeing he flipped red, there should be at least 1 wolf within the list, at least I do not think an experienced player would go to the extent of allowing Townies to create a core of 6 upon death.
Vro, Me, BSR, Sapph
And optionally: Red, Michi
Vro: Reiterating that I do not see his D1 switch away from Michi as demonstrative of wolfy behaviour. It's simply easier to stay on the wagon and claim nobody would have known better if Michi is town, with additional brownie points if Michi is scum. Plus, he was en-route to being lynched if not for the last minute Melehan finding.
BSR: Singular post, though based on my playing experience with him, in the previous game, he is lurky even when playing as Town. Can't tell.
Sapph: Tsk this guy is very lurky. On that note, I am more inclined to believe Vro who pushed for me (voted for me at some point) as opposed to Ruguo (who kept expressing discomfort but clearly voting another way). And in my defence, it's easier for me to stick to my initial accusation of TGN as opposed to being one of the first few to react immediately and add onto the momentum against Ruguo.
Red: Inclined to see him as Town, going all out against Ruguo as opposed to bussing
Michi: Dipped after surviving D1 but can understand the genuine frustration to potentially being lynched off very early for consecutive games
Therefore, for now,
Vote: BraveSirRobin
Post by: Minish on February 07, 2021, 03:11:30 PM
I still want to read into the Silver/TGN interaction d2 but I just really don't know about TGN. That one thing kinda seemed like and derp clear. But Silver also kinda seemed to interact with him in an interesting way. But I also kinda feel like scum would be more likely to let TGN die over Silver. I need to go back and see exactly how the Vro/TGN wagons shifted to Vro/Silver.
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 03:17:23 PM
I need to go back and see exactly how the Vro/TGN wagons shifted to Vro/Silver.my guess on this is that scum early voted on silver's wagon thinking it would be a wasted vote but then it gained too much speed and they weren't around/were afraid to remove their votes
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 03:45:08 PM
I'm confused Doc cause in Portal you were decidedly inno..Talking about Hapi's wagon being bad I feel like this is a fair point tho.
And I said "hello my fellow turr...cores"
And you jumped on me. But now it's an obvious joke not worth a vote? :-\
~~~~
ok so I had a ton of bookmarked posts on Michi but I already gave my piece of mind on that and I think his defense was decent enough to sway suspicion on him for now at least based on the claims of him playing by his scum meta
~~~~
Unvote Michihim unvoting Michi when suspicion was starting to build on him tho hmm
just cuz
I know people pointed this out but it really bothered me so rementioning it
Jesus christ I can never survive werewolf games, already 6 pages!what even is this lol
Lets be cautious shall we, I don't think it would be good to accidentally kill an innocent townie, like me of course :D
I'd also like an explanation why we all want to kill Michi, before of course I jump on the bandwagon...?
if Michi flips town this looks bad if he flips scum this looks bad
who subbed in for Ogum?
In the meantime, I have listened intently to the Whispers of the Walls, and while the Whispers are hardly definitive, I Believe in Their Validity! The Walls would never steer us wrong!Wall memes aside and LIKING 99% OF THE FUCKING POSTS we got good stuff like this
The Likeliest of Blasphemers (Scummiest of Scumspects)
cozmikrae - Basically hopped onto the first wagon he saw with the flimsiest of causes and has been completely quiet since, aside from a thoroughly unconvincing rebuttal to my pointing out the lack of suspicion towards me.
Ruguo - Seems mighty eager to ascribe scummy intent to what are likely the actions of inexperienced players. Very carefully distancing themself from those plays. Also is defending me despite how I've been coating myself in the slime which desecrates the Walls.
TNG - I'm not sure what's going on with the voting there, but it is suspicious. Especially since I know he's smarter than he might initially appear...
Hapi - Shockingly quiet. Where is our regularly scheduled chaos? Plus, THE PROPHECY!
The Faithful (Towniest of Townies)
Vro, Minish, Red, Nyte, and Kane.
Cute readslist specially now that we know he's town. Good early catch on Silver though.
Side bar: I'd not call Michi an inexperience player... Wait, you're referring to Ogun. Meh. Ogun can do Ogun things then, and I'll eat my words later when he responds to me.
Hmm, to me it felt like Silver's insistence on Ogum was super fakeWait so you're gonna fault Ruguo for saying inexperienced players are scum yet you're doing exactly the same with cozmikrae? (Sidenote: She) I'm actually with you on Ruguo. They accused Ogun of being potential sum, yet we co-hosted 23 and this is exactly how Ogun acted then (as town) imo, so I'm wondering why Ruguo brought it up at all. But you're also being wildly inconsistent here, Mel.I will apologize to Ogun if that is the case.
But here we have players that defended him saying he was like that when he played as Town
I'll keep that in mind but Ogum kinda scumlean to me rn
Then again, we also did have a bad habit of lynching the seer and Moot (and Moot as the Seer) D1 in a lot of older games.lol that's quite something
The main player I am not at all suspicious of so far is NyghtOwl. I like their original voting justification so for now I will go off of that in case I am not active before the day ends. BSR seems a bit too quiet so far but they haven't been online for a while so that is somewhat excusable. I really don't have any plausible suspicions so far. Just weak suspicions of Robin, Melehan, and Minish. I just have a gut feeling with Minish for some reason.What was his reasoning and vote again? How did these reads age throughout D1?
I've been holding on to something regarding BSR for a while, but would honestly rather have us focus on the wagons before us atm. BSR hasn't contributed enough of anything to warrant a lynch D1, considering he even has yet to post. Let's just say if Michi flips scum, BSR will become the most likely player to be scum in my eyes immediately.Can you elaborate on this, it seems impossible for you to have something on them if they hadn't posted. And how can you even pair Michi and BSR when that's the case?
This really picked silver's interest, hmm
Silver said he understood what you meant, I wonder if yall bamboozled the mafia team N1 somehow.
Two things that did rub me the wrong way when I was reading through though...I hate, hate, hate wagonimics reasoning (@Doc), because it comes off as someone wanting to sound like they have a reason for voting for a specific person, but don't have a good one and this is the best they can do. I do remember not liking that reasoning from Laurentus either last game and he ended up being town, so it's not high suspicion, just something I don't care for. =|This deserves more attention.
But the biggest thing that felt off was @Red Mones's defense of cozmik. I know they're friends and he invited her here, but he seems so certain that she shouldn't be suspect because she's new (very odd since a new player was the wolf in our last game that he hosted), and at this point the only people who can be certain of the roles are the wolves. All while she was voting for him, too...one doesn't usually defend someone who is voting to have you killed. But what's really odd is out how he put himself out there to defend her when she was never a serious contender for being killed to begin with. She's never had more than a single vote this round. The whole thing feels very overreactive/unnatural and out of place to me, and for that reason I have to vote: Red Mones at this point.
In response to all the posts about Red's defense of me: For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure it's because I'm new here and he doesn't want to ruin my first game with you guys getting voted off day 1. I can't speak to whether he's coming from some other place of being in the know. But I can confirm even as a newb, having read through a couple games, he's flip floppy as hell with his votes. I've never played Mafia or WW with Red, ftr.I'm a bit curious, but have you played forum WW/Mafia before
Red seems to believe you haven't but this posts sounds like you do have some experience
I think I now understand why I always seem so suspicious to yall when I play. (Even if I don't seem that suspicious yet for once) My meta seems to be suspicious overall. I am usually somewhat quiet whether I am town or scum. Whether or not there are neutral roles, I am definitely a tightwad when it comes to giving information which is probably partially out of paranoia that I will immediately be targeted by enemies or breaking the rules if I open up. Plus I tend to get rather defensive (maybe not as much as Aragonn though).Not 100% sure why I had this post in my bookmark, I think it rubbed me the wrong way.
A notable part of my meta that is not too hard to confirm by reading through past games is that I tend to avoid wagons unless (...)
I stand by what I have said, even if it creates suspicious vibes on myself. Big hoo-has on the first day are nigh useless in themselves, I am looking at the Michi and Hapi bandwagons. One is for not voting early, and the other is chaotic playstyle lmao. I have mostly voted RNG in first day phases, and I would only look back when there's more information in the following days.I hate literally everything in this post. As someone considered an elite player here you should know better than go for two easy lynches, prompt random lynches, or try to guilt people for using meta when it's literally the strongest tool people have during D1.
Also, I express my discomfort on the use of meta reading to lynch people on the first day phase, because it's pretty much making a mountain of a molehill, and it usually leads nowhere. I am guilty of that sometimes but there it is. Meta is a big part of the game, and I have used it sometimes to support gut feelings, but on the first day though.
A'ight End of the stuff I had Bookmarked for D1
Gonna check the wagonomics of it later
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 04:00:22 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 04:02:07 PM
Post by: HumanDawn on February 07, 2021, 04:28:59 PM
Post by: HumanDawn on February 07, 2021, 04:34:58 PM
Post by: HumanDawn on February 07, 2021, 04:39:48 PM
I'm definitely struggling a bit to try to read so many players accurately with no meta info so my plan is to dial back for now and focus on a few specific people I think. My question: who are the people right now that is no real thread consensus on? Those are the people I think I'd like to look at first.
I have the same issue with meta. It's harder to read players in a new environment and in such a large number. I'd like an answer to that question too, but considering nobody has yet answered my question for when I joined to give me some context for when I read the thread, I have doubts it will be answered anyway :M
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 04:50:51 PM
I think that's fair. I think I've decided on a bit of a plan of action now and I'm going to run with it, thank you.I'm definitely struggling a bit to try to read so many players accurately with no meta info so my plan is to dial back for now and focus on a few specific people I think. My question: who are the people right now that is no real thread consensus on? Those are the people I think I'd like to look at first.
I have the same issue with meta. It's harder to read players in a new environment and in such a large number. I'd like an answer to that question too, but considering nobody has yet answered my question for when I joined to give me some context for when I read the thread, I have doubts it will be answered anyway :M
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 05:04:13 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 05:09:24 PM
Something I want to point out to people trying to do ISOs... If you're doing the print method then something cool and useful you can do it search for the person's name and not include the "posted by" bit. That way, you not only see their posts but also other people's reactions to them (either directly or in reads) which I think is more useful.Actually, it also picks up votes so maybe pass on this.
Post by: Vroendal on February 07, 2021, 05:12:31 PM
I shall attempt to answer all of your questions when I am no longer occupied as I currently am. ^ ^I'm definitely struggling a bit to try to read so many players accurately with no meta info so my plan is to dial back for now and focus on a few specific people I think. My question: who are the people right now that is no real thread consensus on? Those are the people I think I'd like to look at first.
I have the same issue with meta. It's harder to read players in a new environment and in such a large number. I'd like an answer to that question too, but considering nobody has yet answered my question for when I joined to give me some context for when I read the thread, I have doubts it will be answered anyway :M
Post by: HumanDawn on February 07, 2021, 05:58:40 PM
Vro's voting and unvoting still remains questionable to me , after all , if he turns out as a scum , he will have the best knowledge about lynch consequences . Either way , I have strong gut feelings , that Vro will be lynched in all certainty . Ig everyone would be happy to remove one suspect of the list of scum than keep one hoping him to be innocent . Sorry Vro if this hurts u , but u made a bad name for urself. I hope u understand whatever the play is here , u have drawn far too much suspicion
this post raises !!! in my head
“ye bro sorry if you’re good man you brought it on yourself not because our thinking could be wrong”
Post by: HumanDawn on February 07, 2021, 06:10:00 PM
Aww, Min doesn't like me anymore. That's sad. In my defense though, when have I ever scumhunted? I think I did one misguided attempt at attacking last game and a lot of waffling between the wifom.
Hey TGN, It's good to bring up past game in our defense, but do be careful that defending yourself or omgus voting isn't the only actions you contribute. I think the best way for you to absolve yourself would be to tell us how you're feeling about certain players, especially those of interest today. That currently seems to include You, BSR, Vro, Somewhat Michi, and I guess also me. Hooray, I'm interesting! I think Red could also be considered interesting if you wanna talk about that too.
I'd like to take a closer look at Sapph- something seems a bit off there. Now I could be misremembering, but I've come to expect longer and more of a...frustrated yet cheerful headvoice from him. I'm getting more of a blase feeling, and I don't remember if that's good or bad. So I guess I'll go ISO and see if anything else seems of at some point.My post was neither defensive or in response to 'suspicion thrown' my way. Ruguo just said I expanded a lot on a little for no good reason, and I legitimately wonder why people feel that way because it came up after D1 last game as well. Expanding a lot on a little is what everyone does on D1, so why is it odd that I do it?
That's fair, I wasn't sussing you, just trying to connect to your shoes. You just have a tendency to pick out somewhat strange things compared to others, Moot. That's not bad.
That's about what I've got, yup.
Minish is a plus here for townie points in how Ruguo treats Minish.
2 points to Minish
The paragraph to TGN could go either way, gut feeling says it could be scum trying to get on a townie’s good side. Scum distance more by critizing themselves than doing this Imo.
1 point?
Saphh - Maybe just putting him on a shelf to mislynch letter? Like doesnt want to make up his mind here but still wanted to say something
0... i need to pay attention to saph and rug later
Wintermoot - hmm i think this is legit town and scum discussion
3 points
Post by: HumanDawn on February 07, 2021, 06:17:02 PM
As most of you can see, this game compared to my last, I am MUCH more active
last game I didn't talk as much because I had something to fear
IF I WAS A WOLF, WHY WOULD I BE THIS CONFIDENT!?
irl I am shy and don't speak out as much, and my defence is not the best
BUT I WILL NOT GO OUT UNDER FALSE CLAIMS
"I am innocent of everything I am accused of"
If I am to go out, I will go out innocent
town
Post by: Doc on February 07, 2021, 06:32:10 PM
I feel like this topic is coming up in the thread so I'm going to share my opinion on it: it's a really bad move to no lynch in this game.That math seems to me like it assumes a successful night kill every night - which is generally a useful assumption, but in this case, the N1 night kill didn't go off, either because it got blocked or they didn't submit a night action (which I find unlikely, since IIRC Lau ended N1 slightly early, which I doubt he'd do if he didn't get a night action).
I've grown to be against no-lynch votes on principle, but I thought I should point out a potential flaw in your reasoning here.
Got a ping on Discord from Red, so I suspect I have votes on me.If it's the same one I got, that's not WW business, that's Burner Business. WW is important, but nothing is more important than Burning down the Underhusen.
Underhusen delenda est.
so I’m pretty sure he’s aware Lau is the host. Him “derping” could’ve been him doubling down on this joke so I really don’t think we should consider that viable evidence in any wayI'm personally opined that TGN is competent despite his relative newness to both the game and the forums, to the extent that he knows that playing Lost Little Lamb is an effective tool to guilt-trip clear himself. The only weight against that is that he and I were scumbuds in the last game, and for him to roll scum in both games he's played so far seems like it might be a mite unfair. Then again, that's werewolf, baby (https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a47mA5y_700bwp.webp); sometimes the dice just shake out like that.
Frankly, I still don't trust Vroendal and TGN. Perhaps I'm just tunneling, but I find myself just completely unable to get over why the two of them were so insistent on not just voting for the other to save their own skin. It worked out for the best that we didn't lynch either of them yesterday, but I'm just inescapably fucking hung up on this, and it's not at all helped by the fact that neither of them seems willing to explain what prompted this.
The two points in Vroendal's favor - one of which is a very tiny point, since it was a very big wagon which leaves a lot of room for scum just bussing their buds - is that 1) unlike with TGN, he was willing to vote for Ruguo/Silver, but at the same time Silv was right on the cusp of a majority lynch whereas at no point did either of TGN or Vro's wagons get above 6 votes, making a flip eminently plausible and 2) what are the fucking odds our 3 big wagons in one day would all be scum?
...which then drops me into a WIFOM situation of 'but man, if you could set that up, wouldn't that implicitly clear them for a lot of townies just on a 'what are the oooooodds' basis?' Since it's a WIFOM deal, doesn't seem like a useful line of inquiry to pursue.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 07, 2021, 06:38:55 PM
Why is/was Nygth a town read?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 06:44:20 PM
That's a fair point, I assumed it wouldn't be a thing that likely happened but it already has at least once. So slight revision: if we are running on an even number (like we currently are) then I think we should consider no lynching at ELO (assuming no confirmed towns alive) to force wolves to kill a potential lynch option.I feel like this topic is coming up in the thread so I'm going to share my opinion on it: it's a really bad move to no lynch in this game.That math seems to me like it assumes a successful night kill every night - which is generally a useful assumption, but in this case, the N1 night kill didn't go off, either because it got blocked or they didn't submit a night action (which I find unlikely, since IIRC Lau ended N1 slightly early, which I doubt he'd do if he didn't get a night action).
I've grown to be against no-lynch votes on principle, but I thought I should point out a potential flaw in your reasoning here.Got a ping on Discord from Red, so I suspect I have votes on me.If it's the same one I got, that's not WW business, that's Burner Business. WW is important, but nothing is more important than Burning down the Underhusen.
Underhusen delenda est.so I’m pretty sure he’s aware Lau is the host. Him “derping” could’ve been him doubling down on this joke so I really don’t think we should consider that viable evidence in any wayI'm personally opined that TGN is competent despite his relative newness to both the game and the forums, to the extent that he knows that playing Lost Little Lamb is an effective tool to guilt-trip clear himself. The only weight against that is that he and I were scumbuds in the last game, and for him to roll scum in both games he's played so far seems like it might be a mite unfair. Then again, that's werewolf, baby (https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a47mA5y_700bwp.webp); sometimes the dice just shake out like that.
Frankly, I still don't trust Vroendal and TGN. Perhaps I'm just tunneling, but I find myself just completely unable to get over why the two of them were so insistent on not just voting for the other to save their own skin. It worked out for the best that we didn't lynch either of them yesterday, but I'm just inescapably fucking hung up on this, and it's not at all helped by the fact that neither of them seems willing to explain what prompted this.
The two points in Vroendal's favor - one of which is a very tiny point, since it was a very big wagon which leaves a lot of room for scum just bussing their buds - is that 1) unlike with TGN, he was willing to vote for Ruguo/Silver, but at the same time Silv was right on the cusp of a majority lynch whereas at no point did either of TGN or Vro's wagons get above 6 votes, making a flip eminently plausible and 2) what are the fucking odds our 3 big wagons in one day would all be scum?
...which then drops me into a WIFOM situation of 'but man, if you could set that up, wouldn't that implicitly clear them for a lot of townies just on a 'what are the oooooodds' basis?' Since it's a WIFOM deal, doesn't seem like a useful line of inquiry to pursue.
Post by: Vroendal on February 07, 2021, 09:19:29 PM
Hello guys, I’m from Bulbagarden and from here I only know of ExLight, Minish and Vroendal. It’s going to take a while for me to read the game and get my groove on. In the meantime can somebody give me a bit of notes of what went on? Day 2’s lynch was a scum lynch - what helped achieve that?To be honest after going over some of the Day I realize that this synopsis is very heavily subjectively based, and I'm wondering whether it's useful to even accept this as a post, as it comes to a WIFOM argument of whether you should pay attention to it or not because it's too influenced by my personal perspective. If you think it's useful to read what I remember to see my personal viewpoint, I'll make D2, but both days were such a tangled mess I feel you would get a lot more value by reading it through from your own eyes. There's just too much room for error of who would find what significant.
Like actually, I made this to keep part of my promise, it's trash though. Don't read it. Literally just ignore it.
D1 synopsis (influenced from personal perspective)
I know you've most likely already gone through D1, but as a refresher for myself and others, D1 started as a chaotic mess with a slurry of joke votes and wagons all over the place. There was more significant discussion on Hapi's chaotic playstyle making her a good lynch, and why lynching D1 was a good idea. The turning point of the day I feel was when I tried to figure out a vote on any of the current wagons through actual effort in justification and made this post (which conveniently lays out the past votes of the day, huzzah, less work) -
Ruguo - 1 (Red Mones)
Red Mones - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
I spent much more time on the Michi dilemma rather than the Hapi votes, as this is what mainly led to the next day's events.
Well, many hours have elapsed and not a great amount has happened.It should be noted that I had miscounted and with Red's switch of votes there was only a majority on Hapi. This prompted research into Michi's past games from various players (including himself) where it was found that in the three most recent games his meta had been a earlier votes (one as a retaliation joke vote, which I mean, still counts as an early vote no matter how you twist it) as 2 town aligned roles, and his 1 scum game showed that he voted much later in the day. His other games took place more than a year ago. This prompted votes/pushes at various points in the day from Ruguo, Wisch, and Minish, while some stated their discomfort with a wagon instigated by meta. Melehan made a push against cozmik for what she viewed as suspicious reasoning and voting patterns. Michi presented his defense, which I personally found fault with, but further promoted stated discomfort in his vote from other players. At some point Red was pushed by Minish for defending cozmik. I tried to draw him out more, and unvoted him, he presented more defense which included refusing to state perspectives on other players and suggesting night action choices from the Seer which prompted me to double-down and vote him again. At this point there was one less vote on Hapi prompted by wagonomics reasoning from Doc. After Hapi stated discomfort in Michi's lynch, I made a last-minute decision to unvote and leave it to a coinflip. Hapi was lynched, and flipped villager. There's more I could go over but this is just a synopsis from my memories and skimming the Day Phase. The voting ended with these choices -
As a reminder, currently the order of votes have gone like:
Red Mones - Hapi (For a joking comment)
Hapi - RM (In retaliation)
Hapi - Melehan (Given reason to fulfill the prophecy)
RM - cozmikrae (For the same joking comment as Hapi)
Wintermoot - NyghtOwl (Saw the more senior members as likelier to be scum)
Doc - Silv (Given reason as Doc's scum curse)
Vroendal - Sapphrion (Given reason as RNG)
Michi - Gerrick (Michi's opinion is wrong and he's a bad person)
Sapph - TGN (Given reason "for all the reasons you guys voted each other")Mel- RM (Paranoia from Mel's references, immediately unvoted)
The wagons are rather spread out atm with a majority on Hapi and RM with 2 votes. The most convincing reason up here right now to me is actually the vote on Michi oddly enough XD, in the past games he's been among the first to vote, this change in tactics requires more explanation. I'm aware this will make the majority split three ways, still a good amount of time left.
Vote - Michi
Ruguo - 1 (Red Mones)
Red Mones - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
I spent much more time on the Michi dilemma rather than the Hapi votes, as this is what mainly led to the next day's events.
Post by: Vroendal on February 07, 2021, 09:23:12 PM
I explained it in a post D2 -I've been holding on to something regarding BSR for a while, but would honestly rather have us focus on the wagons before us atm. BSR hasn't contributed enough of anything to warrant a lynch D1, considering he even has yet to post. Let's just say if Michi flips scum, BSR will become the most likely player to be scum in my eyes immediately.Can you elaborate on this, it seems impossible for you to have something on them if they hadn't posted. And how can you even pair Michi and BSR when that's the case?
This really picked silver's interest, hmm
Silver said he understood what you meant, I wonder if yall bamboozled the mafia team N1 somehow.
Link between a scum Michi and BSROh yeah @Vroendal, what was the link between Michi and BSR?I said there was a link between BSR and specifically scum Michi because BSR has done exactly 3 things this game: Ask to confirm the roles/abilities we had, liked Red Mones' response, and liked Michi's first post.Man, it's always weird just to see a vote or two in the first day when there's no rule requiring it day one...but I think this beats all.Yes, I was sussing a scum link for a like on a post, sue me. It is interesting just by virtue of being the only thing he's engaged with, to which you might ask why BSR would out himself like that. However, it is notable that he also voted someone early on as a town role in the LOTR game whereas now he has been silent and unengaged. Scum adopting similar tactics is by means an impossibility, and the open support of Michi's opinion despite his clear hypocrisy is telling in my opinion. BSR was also quiet and asked questions about roles last game so no AI actions there, it's the only place where I can a true read on BSR.
Ya'll are crazy.
(I apologize at the time earlier this game when I said BSR hadn't posted, my eyes went right over his initial post on the first page.)
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 09:26:05 PM
oh I still have to reread D2 hmmI explained it in a post D2 -I've been holding on to something regarding BSR for a while, but would honestly rather have us focus on the wagons before us atm. BSR hasn't contributed enough of anything to warrant a lynch D1, considering he even has yet to post. Let's just say if Michi flips scum, BSR will become the most likely player to be scum in my eyes immediately.Can you elaborate on this, it seems impossible for you to have something on them if they hadn't posted. And how can you even pair Michi and BSR when that's the case?
This really picked silver's interest, hmm
Silver said he understood what you meant, I wonder if yall bamboozled the mafia team N1 somehow.Link between a scum Michi and BSROh yeah @Vroendal, what was the link between Michi and BSR?I said there was a link between BSR and specifically scum Michi because BSR has done exactly 3 things this game: Ask to confirm the roles/abilities we had, liked Red Mones' response, and liked Michi's first post.Man, it's always weird just to see a vote or two in the first day when there's no rule requiring it day one...but I think this beats all.Yes, I was sussing a scum link for a like on a post, sue me. It is interesting just by virtue of being the only thing he's engaged with, to which you might ask why BSR would out himself like that. However, it is notable that he also voted someone early on as a town role in the LOTR game whereas now he has been silent and unengaged. Scum adopting similar tactics is by means an impossibility, and the open support of Michi's opinion despite his clear hypocrisy is telling in my opinion. BSR was also quiet and asked questions about roles last game so no AI actions there, it's the only place where I can a true read on BSR.
Ya'll are crazy.
(I apologize at the time earlier this game when I said BSR hadn't posted, my eyes went right over his initial post on the first page.)
that’s an interesting catch
Post by: Vroendal on February 07, 2021, 09:32:40 PM
I'm definitely struggling a bit to try to read so many players accurately with no meta info so my plan is to dial back for now and focus on a few specific people I think. My question: who are the people right now that is no real thread consensus on? Those are the people I think I'd like to look at first.Sapphiron, Wintermoot, yourself (by virtue of Ogun), I suppose Doc because his votes have been sub-optimal, I still am heavily uncomfortable with Minish despite people liking her posts, Kane, BSR, Anubhav, HumanDawn by virtue of ENE, Wisch to some extent, and Gerrick who is being pushed right now.
I think people have generally come to the conclusion that I (though Doc seems to disagree), Red, cozmik, TGN, Nyght, and possibly Michi are more likely to be town.
Post by: Vroendal on February 07, 2021, 09:37:32 PM
I said there was a link between BSR and specifically scum Michi because BSR has done exactly 3 things this game: Ask to confirm the roles/abilities we had, liked Red Mones' response, and liked Michi's first post.Bleh, I just noticed errors I made, I have corrected them in bold.
Michi's first post for reference:Man, it's always weird just to see a vote or two in the first day when there's no rule requiring it day one...but I think this beats all.Yes, I was sussing a scum link for a like on a post, sue me. It is interesting just by virtue of being the only thing he's engaged with, to which you might ask why BSR would out himself like that. However, it is notable that he also voted someone early on as a town role in the LOTR game whereas now he has been silent and unengaged. Scum adopting similar tactics as their buddies is by no means an impossibility, and the open support of Michi's opinion despite his clear hypocrisy from his latest game as town is telling in my opinion. BSR was also quiet and asked questions about roles last game so no AI actions to be found from here andthere, it's (the post like) the only place where I can a true read on BSR.
Ya'll are crazy.
(I apologize at the time earlier this game when I said BSR hadn't posted, my eyes went right over his initial post on the first page.)
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 09:39:48 PM
I have yet to see someone saying you and TGN are townyI'm definitely struggling a bit to try to read so many players accurately with no meta info so my plan is to dial back for now and focus on a few specific people I think. My question: who are the people right now that is no real thread consensus on? Those are the people I think I'd like to look at first.Sapphiron, Wintermoot, yourself (by virtue of Ogun), I suppose Doc because his votes have been sub-optimal, I still am heavily uncomfortable with Minish despite people liking her posts, Kane, BSR, Anubhav, HumanDawn by virtue of ENE, Wisch to some extent, and Gerrick who is being pushed right now.
I think people have generally come to the conclusion that I (though Doc seems to disagree), Red, cozmik, TGN, Nyght, and possibly Michi are more likely to be town.
although I do think you’re likely to be Town
Post by: Vroendal on February 07, 2021, 09:43:45 PM
I have yet to see someone saying you and TGN are towny
although I do think you’re likely to be Town
There's one right now on TGN, and Melehan and Red bust up everyone's chops to save me from a D2 lynch so they certainly thought I was town, which resulted in the lynch of a titan. Previously TGN had also been a wagon contender with Silv, their interactions have been interesting, but I think most people are reading both of us as town.As most of you can see, this game compared to my last, I am MUCH more active
last game I didn't talk as much because I had something to fear
IF I WAS A WOLF, WHY WOULD I BE THIS CONFIDENT!?
irl I am shy and don't speak out as much, and my defence is not the best
BUT I WILL NOT GO OUT UNDER FALSE CLAIMS
"I am innocent of everything I am accused of"
If I am to go out, I will go out innocent
town
Post by: Doc on February 07, 2021, 09:46:33 PM
I think people have generally come to the conclusion that I (though Doc seems to disagree), Red, cozmik, TGN, Nyght, and possibly Michi are more likely to be town.I've made clear how to change my mind.
I find myself just completely unable to get over why the two of them were so insistent on not just voting for the other to save their own skin. It worked out for the best that we didn't lynch either of them yesterday, but I'm just inescapably fucking hung up on this, and it's not at all helped by the fact that neither of them seems willing to explain what prompted this.This is what is causing me to drill down on you two. You've ignored it every time I've brought it up and you've refused to explain it at every turn. If you'd like it to stop, I think you pretty well know how to make it stop.
Post by: Vroendal on February 07, 2021, 09:56:57 PM
On that topic, I stated in my first reads list I feel very uncomfortable trying to read TGN because of how badly I fooled myself last game, I have come to the conclusion that I can no longer trust my read on him, especially when it's just nonsense/chaos.I think people have generally come to the conclusion that I (though Doc seems to disagree), Red, cozmik, TGN, Nyght, and possibly Michi are more likely to be town.I've made clear how to change my mind.I find myself just completely unable to get over why the two of them were so insistent on not just voting for the other to save their own skin. It worked out for the best that we didn't lynch either of them yesterday, but I'm just inescapably fucking hung up on this, and it's not at all helped by the fact that neither of them seems willing to explain what prompted this.This is what is causing me to drill down on you two. You've ignored it every time I've brought it up and you've refused to explain it at every turn. If you'd like it to stop, I think you pretty well know how to make it stop.
I voted him at one point after he self-voted and said something about going out with honor, which I took to mean a confession. Upon my poking he clarified and then after Silv's insistence presented some of the best posts I've ever seen from him, which certainly shows far more effort put into this game than the previous. I would've voted him to save my own skin for certain, but the possibility of lynching Ruguo seemed a better option to me even from the first. I dislike voting until I feel set on it, as I'm aware I tend to second-guess myself all the time and waiting for clearer voting moments reduces spam and confusion overall.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 07, 2021, 10:21:13 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 10:22:37 PM
psh he wasn’t even halfway D1 when he posted that gimme a breakI have yet to see someone saying you and TGN are towny
although I do think you’re likely to be TownThere's one right now on TGN, and Melehan and Red bust up everyone's chops to save me from a D2 lynch so they certainly thought I was town, which resulted in the lynch of a titan. Previously TGN had also been a wagon contender with Silv, their interactions have been interesting, but I think most people are reading both of us as town.As most of you can see, this game compared to my last, I am MUCH more active
last game I didn't talk as much because I had something to fear
IF I WAS A WOLF, WHY WOULD I BE THIS CONFIDENT!?
irl I am shy and don't speak out as much, and my defence is not the best
BUT I WILL NOT GO OUT UNDER FALSE CLAIMS
"I am innocent of everything I am accused of"
If I am to go out, I will go out innocent
town
Post by: Vroendal on February 07, 2021, 10:28:01 PM
psh he wasn’t even halfway D1 when he posted that gimme a breakThat particular quote of TGN's comes nearer to the end of D2, and judging by the tone and posting style I think it points nearer to a townie's post than not. TGN is a rather more chaotically aligned player who frequently posts what I personally consider to be nonsense but hey-ho. I will refrain from stating a certainty of his alignment for himself, but from the looks of how the Day yesterday went I would not be surprised to find him higher on the reads lists.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 11:30:46 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 07, 2021, 11:31:42 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 07, 2021, 11:50:22 PM
oh my bad hmmpsh he wasn’t even halfway D1 when he posted that gimme a breakThat particular quote of TGN's comes nearer to the end of D2, and judging by the tone and posting style I think it points nearer to a townie's post than not. TGN is a rather more chaotically aligned player who frequently posts what I personally consider to be nonsense but hey-ho. I will refrain from stating a certainty of his alignment for himself, but from the looks of how the Day yesterday went I would not be surprised to find him higher on the reads lists.
Post by: Red Mones on February 08, 2021, 12:19:38 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 12:21:14 AM
I think I had this post bookmarked because I wasn't liking Silver, hadn't realized he was the one lynched D2. This post makes me think of Silver and BSR being on different teams though.Okay so firstly:
It should be fairly obvious that I am not scum rather simply, because generally I devote far more time to games in which I am scum. Take that for proof enough as you will lol.
As far as stuff goes, it would seem to me that Ruguo and Vro are really dominating the conversation, and while I generally don't expect that to incriminate people, the fact that this is a vanilla game with basically "power role" or village dynamic means that I expect most people (like myself) who are town to have a lot less "skin in the game," as it were.
Also, because Ruguo immediately tried to tie everything to the Valerians (Michi, Hapi and myself) and then the lynch of Hapi revealed town, I'm not convinced. Especially because creating wagons day one is never a good thing for the town.
Consequently, the people on my personal "to consider" list are the following:
Vro, NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish.
Which is "people who voted for Hapi or Michi, and Vro"
Now, Doc has turned on a dime and gone after Vro, which I definitely agree with, and he didn't change vote because wagonomics, which definitely makes sense and checks out, so I feel comfortable removing him from suspicion for now.
That being said, I really like Minish's analysis, so I have to say I don't feel like this list is by any means definitive, though I definitely think that at least 2-3 people in this list are wolves.
Thus my revised list of people who I'm really unsure about and might be wolves is:
Vro, NyghtOwl, Melehan, Cozmikrae, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland.
In that, I only feel relatively confidently about Vro for the weird metareasoning that I don't think checks out (at least with how I generally play). Also my play style definitely changes quite often I think, because I generally enjoy relying on someone who I find relatively stable early on who is at least rather predictable and then latch on to the results of said person getting their way. Generally, I rely on Lau for this because he's usually quite active and can sniff out wolves/if he is a wolf he kills me early so usually I don't have to worry about that lol.
But alas he's the host now, so I can't rely on that. I shall try to take a more active role from now on but no promises if there continues to be like 20 pages per time I view lol. I've got like 6 tabs open trying to make sense of this whole thing :))
My dear Robin, I think you have your order of events a little confused.
Hapi flipped town before I said anythign about the Valerians- and even then it was simply a joke about how many powerplayers are in that house. Lau's hosting, so he can't make that joke for this game. Someone had to do it.
I will admit I did jump on the Michi wagon, but I hardly created it. I simply felt his odd behavior for his meta on D1 was the best we had at the time- now we have more to go off of with the flippity flopping of votes.
Side note: In what world is town not doing anything good for town? I don't think anyone should have less skin in the game than others- I'm also known to just go prod around the thread to show I'm active and around to talk if anyone else is around, I do my best work bantering randomly with people. Would you like to banter, Robin? You also talk about how Lau is usually quite active and can sniff out the wolves, and I mean, would you expect him to dial it back just because he has "less skin in the game"? I'm sorry, that's just a bad argument.
I happen to put Melehan in the Town Core section and hence I shallhmm, ok this really is townie at first glance
Unvote
Vote: Ruguo
I'm still scumreading you though
If Ruguo flips green, I'm a dead man, and honestly I'd deserve it lolI don't like this kind of comments before flips because I often see scum doing them.
aand that was what I had bookmarked for D2
Lemme check how the wagons evolved
So far to me:
Townlean - Vro, Wintermoot, BSR, maybe Michi and Minish
Scumlean - TGN, Sapph, Ogun
Kinda on the fence on Doc and Kane
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 02:33:02 AM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 08, 2021, 02:41:46 AM
Vro's voting and unvoting still remains questionable to me , after all , if he turns out as a scum , he will have the best knowledge about lynch consequences . Either way , I have strong gut feelings , that Vro will be lynched in all certainty . Ig everyone would be happy to remove one suspect of the list of scum than keep one hoping him to be innocent . Sorry Vro if this hurts u , but u made a bad name for urself. I hope u understand whatever the play is here , u have drawn far too much suspicion
this post raises !!! in my head
“ye bro sorry if you’re good man you brought it on yourself not because our thinking could be wrong”
This was a decoy sort of post i would say . What i was looking for was retaliation , which unfortunately took place before this post as many cited Vro's chance of being a townie and no one . I looked out for people who did not retaliate , because even after the best defenses and clarifications i stubbornly stood on my words , and said things as if it was fixed that Vro will be lynched by the town . The post did not go very well , as i did not receive counters until now , and here I am justifying why i did it . It was just a measure to clear out some people out of suspicion momentarily
Post by: Gerrick on February 08, 2021, 06:36:25 AM
I decided to make a list of how many posts each player has made in this thread before this post to try to glean some sort of info from it.
post counts
84 Red Mones
69 Melehan ††
65 Minish
62 Vroendal
45 TGN
39 Ruguo ††
36 cozmikrae
25 Nyght
25 ExLight ***
25 Hapi †
20 Doc
17 Kane
14 Legacy ***
13 Sapphiron
11 Michi
11 HumanDawn ***
10 Gerrick
9 Wintermoot
9 Anubhav **
9 Wischland
4 BSR
**D2 sub
***D3 sub
†D1 death
††D2/N2 death
69 Melehan ††
65 Minish
62 Vroendal
45 TGN
39 Ruguo ††
36 cozmikrae
25 Nyght
25 ExLight ***
25 Hapi †
20 Doc
17 Kane
14 Legacy ***
13 Sapphiron
11 Michi
11 HumanDawn ***
10 Gerrick
9 Wintermoot
9 Anubhav **
9 Wischland
4 BSR
**D2 sub
***D3 sub
†D1 death
††D2/N2 death
Our obvious top living posters are Red, Minish, and Vroendal (and I suspect ExLight will quickly climb the list to join them). While Ruguo was definitely one of the more frequent posters, they weren't one of the ones who were really driving the conversation compared to the top 4. Considering Melehan flipped town (RIP), is everyone confident that the other top three are all town? I think it's definitely possible that there's scum in there. Also the fact that all three voted for Ruguo D2 means they would have bussed Ruguo if they're scum -- something to take note of.
Of the three, I'm leaning most Minish being scum in large part because of Melehan's suspicions of her (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156466#msg156466) (having been right about leading the Ruguo wagon). Also the whole "I wouldn't play like that as scum" bit doesn't really land for me.
Vroendal still doesn't sit as very town for me. Besides the whole late D1 vote-changing, he doesn't read as genuine as last game (can't exactly put my finger on it), although he is being quite helpful overall.
Considering Red was the second vote on Ruguo and encouraged others to vote them, this would be a deep play, but still possible -- I could see it happening that Ruguo was willing to sacrifice themself to focus on WW25.
BUT, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now since they're all driving discussion, which is good for town regardless.
Mid-tier posters include TGN, cozmik, Nyght, Doc, and Kane.
TGN is all over the place, of course, but what's still sticking with me the most is his post (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156422#msg156422) about how he didn't want to spend his school mornings trying to defend himself, which reads town. I don't buy the Laurentus/host derp clear, though.
Cozmik has been very wagon-happy and seems to change votes to follow the tide, which seems pretty sus to me.
As I said about Nyght before, he reads very genuine to me and is pretty clearly town.
Doc is playing quite differently than last game and is generally more helpful and active, which I like.
Kane has been laying out his thoughts on players pretty well, which reads in his favor, and I tend to agree with his pressure on BSR.
Quieter folks include Sapphiron, Michi, Wintermoot, Wischland, Anubhav, and BSR (... and me).
I'm no good at reading Sapphiron. But I don't like his D1 anti-meta arguments or his explanation for voting Ruguo (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156505#msg156505), which didn't really line up (he posted a couple times between the time Melehan gave an argument for Ruguo and only switched to vote for them after they had gained a couple more votes).
Michi has been very quiet since EoD1, having only talked about Vro, TGN, and Alexander Valentine and then switched to vote Ruguo near the end.
Wintermoot was putting the pressure on Vroendal all D2, which seems like he was really trying to unearth some sort of truth from him. Also has yet to change a vote, so he sticks to his guns and doesn't follow the tide to appear towny.
I agree quite a bit with Wischland's most recent reads list (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156619#msg156619), although I really don't like how she didn't vote D2.
Anubhav only came in on D2, so less to work with. Think the FoS on Kane is a little odd, although I agree with his warning (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156578#msg156578) that we should not change votes simply because people make a post to seem sympathetic -- this could cause us to move off a wolf and not circle back on them until it's too late.
Still the quietest in the game, BSR has been noticeably absent although he's been online. Also, his D2 sus list (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156309#msg156309) was quite lacking, as was his reasoning for voting Vro.
reads list
Town Lean
Red Mones
TGN
NyghtOwl
Doc
Kane
Wintermoot
Null
Vroendal
Michi
Wischland
Anubhav
[the three new players]
Scum Lean
Minish
cozmikrae
Sapphiron
BraveSirRobin
Red Mones
TGN
NyghtOwl
Doc
Kane
Wintermoot
Null
Vroendal
Michi
Wischland
Anubhav
[the three new players]
Scum Lean
Minish
cozmikrae
Sapphiron
BraveSirRobin
Vote: BraveSirRobin
Besides my suspicions of him laid out above, I think BSR's death will help give info on Sapphiron since he's also voting for him. Plus, it's not like we'd be losing an active member driving discussion... :/
Post by: Vroendal on February 08, 2021, 06:43:33 AM
I'll bite at this BSR argument though, applying more pressure for that oomph is probably a good thing.
Vote - BSR
I may have more to dissect from the post later, I'm winding down at the moment.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 08, 2021, 08:53:44 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 10:39:13 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 08, 2021, 10:42:12 AM
Strongly Town:
HumanDawn
Red Mones
NyghtOwl
Town:
ExLight
Vroendel
Doc
Leaning Town:
Wischland
Michi
Minish
Null:
Anubhav
Wintermoot
cozmikrae
Sapphiron
BraveSirRobin
Leaning Wolf:
TGN
Gerrick
Imaginative Kane
I don't think all of my wolf leans are wolves together but I'm feeling hopeful that we get a red flip in there and can work from there. If there are any reads in particular you want me to explain please let me know, this already took ages so I didn't really have time to give a paragraph for each too.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 08, 2021, 10:44:20 AM
uh I think I’m missing something what’s the logic behind the Robin lynch againBSR has been on the wolfy side of null so far but so many people being eager to lynch them for very little and bottom reading them triggers some alarm bells that this could be an easy mislynch. I want to scrutinise the votes/reads on him more.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 08, 2021, 10:53:38 AM
Post by: Minish on February 08, 2021, 11:56:23 AM
Like Legacy said, it's interesting how easily BSR is gaining traction for seemingly no reason. A BSR lynch would actually give me some decent info I think. It's interesting that he's had 4 posts according to Gerrick, since he didn't vote d1 and voted Vro d2. I need to check when exactly he voted for Vro. Because if it was when Silver's wagon was taking off then that looks not good. I could see an inactive scum being pinged by his scumbuds to come in and try to help save one of them.
Also I'd like to hear more from Wisch. It's interesting that they're being townread by a few people when they've said very little and seemed a lot more active in the LotR game.
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 11:59:13 AM
I should’ve been more considerate about the effort put into this site, and will do my best to avoid repeating this kind of behavior.
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 12:03:31 PM
A lot of people appear to be focusing on meta reads a good deal this game and this concerns me. Once players start becoming aware of their own meta, they can use it to enter the towncore as a wolf. Wolves can also leverage meta as an easy way to push a mislynch and look blameless after (it's fairly likely that this almost happened already with Minish almost being lynched D1 and Hapi actually being lynched).Meta is probably one of the most important tools in more vanillaish setups since mechanical information provided by roles is limited, tbh. People might say vote analysis is the key, but you need some mets to know if a person never busses or always votes last second to break ties as town, or any stuff like this. So in the end it boils down to the context of Meta in a way.
Also, do you mean Michi almost being lynched? I remember people trying to throw paranoia shade on Minish but I don’t remember votes on her.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 08, 2021, 12:14:37 PM
alright back to the game; again, sorry if I upset anyoneI absolutely agree that meta is important and I use it myself (for example, my EME read is meta from their tone) but I'm just worried that people have been over-relying on it a bit. Meta is extremely useful but if a lot of our arguments are just meta and not much substance then what stops somebody from going "hey, X (townsperson) isn't acting like their last town game" and wolves getting a mislynch with zero accountability? Also the validity of a person's meta reads is really hard to tell so it's often hard to tell if the person making the reads is genuine or not.A lot of people appear to be focusing on meta reads a good deal this game and this concerns me. Once players start becoming aware of their own meta, they can use it to enter the towncore as a wolf. Wolves can also leverage meta as an easy way to push a mislynch and look blameless after (it's fairly likely that this almost happened already with Minish almost being lynched D1 and Hapi actually being lynched).Meta is probably one of the most important tools in more vanillaish setups since mechanical information provided by roles is limited, tbh. People might say vote analysis is the key, but you need some mets to know if a person never busses or always votes last second to break ties as town, or any stuff like this. So in the end it boils down to the context of Meta in a way.
Also, do you mean Michi almost being lynched? I remember people trying to throw paranoia shade on Minish but I don’t remember votes on her.
Just to reiterate: my point is never not to use meta, I would just support please making sure you don't forget to add in-game reasonings for reads/pushes if you can find any in addition to meta. I know it would certainly make my life easier.
Sorry, I did mean Michi and got the two names confused in my head. Super sorry about this.
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 03:40:56 PM
I would say leaning town
Post by: Gerrick on February 08, 2021, 04:11:51 PM
Like Legacy said, it's interesting how easily BSR is gaining traction for seemingly no reason. A BSR lynch would actually give me some decent info I think. It's interesting that he's had 4 posts according to Gerrick, since he didn't vote d1 and voted Vro d2. I need to check when exactly he voted for Vro. Because if it was when Silver's wagon was taking off then that looks not good. I could see an inactive scum being pinged by his scumbuds to come in and try to help save one of them.At the time BSR voted, here was the vote count:
Vroendal (3): Doc, Gerrick, BSR
TGN (6): cozmikrae, Sapphiron, Minish, Ruguo, TGN, Vroendal
Sapphiron (1): Melehan
So it was at the height of the TGN wagon and before the Ruguo wagon. I think his vote at that point is NAI since it could be just to get a vote on the second largest wagon while so many are jumping on TGN's or because he really thinks Vro is scum.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 08, 2021, 04:18:53 PM
alright back to the game; again, sorry if I upset anyoneI absolutely agree that meta is important and I use it myself (for example, my EME read is meta from their tone) but I'm just worried that people have been over-relying on it a bit. Meta is extremely useful but if a lot of our arguments are just meta and not much substance then what stops somebody from going "hey, X (townsperson) isn't acting like their last town game" and wolves getting a mislynch with zero accountability? Also the validity of a person's meta reads is really hard to tell so it's often hard to tell if the person making the reads is genuine or not.A lot of people appear to be focusing on meta reads a good deal this game and this concerns me. Once players start becoming aware of their own meta, they can use it to enter the towncore as a wolf. Wolves can also leverage meta as an easy way to push a mislynch and look blameless after (it's fairly likely that this almost happened already with Minish almost being lynched D1 and Hapi actually being lynched).Meta is probably one of the most important tools in more vanillaish setups since mechanical information provided by roles is limited, tbh. People might say vote analysis is the key, but you need some mets to know if a person never busses or always votes last second to break ties as town, or any stuff like this. So in the end it boils down to the context of Meta in a way.
Also, do you mean Michi almost being lynched? I remember people trying to throw paranoia shade on Minish but I don’t remember votes on her.
Just to reiterate: my point is never not to use meta, I would just support please making sure you don't forget to add in-game reasonings for reads/pushes if you can find any in addition to meta. I know it would certainly make my life easier.
Sorry, I did mean Michi and got the two names confused in my head. Super sorry about this.
This is somewhere along my own reasoning, mind you I'm not familiar with most player's meta which leaves me naturally suspicious of claims dealing with it. But it seems like a player who is aware of their own meta could easily influence the general view of them using well established patterns to deflect suspicion.
I'm especially not fond of it as a defense. It's probably one of the most obvious things one could say.
Now I could be wrong but I haven't seen anything from BSR defending his general lurkiness outside of his claim that his wolf meta is far more aggressive. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm still catching up but I wanted to contribute before days end.
I'm still leery of Vro as well. But his reasoning has been more based in gameplay strategy.
Post by: Minish on February 08, 2021, 04:43:01 PM
Spoiler
Starts off with rvs vote on Doc.
Some fluff posts.
Says he gets the feeling we need to vote Michi off for meta after what Vro pointed out and votes Michi.
Questions Ogun's post and says it feels off. Puts some suspicion on Ogun.
Town reads Mele.
Says that he can't read people when he hosts games referring to someone questioning his suspicion of Ogun for playing how he always does.
Questions what info Vro was holding onto regarding BSR.
Says Red's defense of cozmik is NAI and Red defending himself with his own meta is something he'd do as either alignment.
Says Wintermoot's post looked like it reeked of ""I have no idea what's going on but really tried to make an informed effort". Soft defends Wintermoot saying he can vouch that he's been busy. Says he does make some good points but does what Silver himself does which is read up and note small odd things then expand on them a lot for no reason.
Says that "Minish is playing like Minish", discusses how he saw my vote for Michi as coming from a place of one scumspect lynched is better than no scumspects lynched. Thought my switch to Red laid out my reasons well, even if he didn't believe in them.
Someone mentions Gerrick being quiet and Silver agrees and says Gerrick is quiet as scum and that him and BSR lurking doesn't sit right with him.
Makes a joke post blaming the Valerians for no one dying.
Joke post about Doc being scum.
Says hi to Kane and asks why he doesn't remember a single of his posts from d1. Then says it's because he's inept at remembering who is playing.
Explains what he meant by the Valerians post and says it houses some of the best scum players. Names BSR, Hapi, and Michi.
Some fluff.
Asks TGN not to just randomly vote after he placed a vote for Wintermoot. Tries to prod him a bit about the vote.
Mentions he can't tell scum Minish from town Minish.
Doesn't think it odd that Vro tied a wagon, but didn't like his vote jumping.
Addresses ENE (prods to post more or he'll assume he's lurking scum), Wisch (says they're useful and tells them to keep poking things, and that Sapph could use a good prod), Mele (jokes that he needs more walls from her, but also says she's right about looking into the wagons and smart scum wouldn't all jump on one wagon especially when two were viable), Doc (asks him to state something useful if he's going to drop in), and Nyght (says that watching lurkers is a good play but that there are probably active scum around, then asks for his perspective on anyone who's posted more than Doc/Cozmik or anyone that's posted recently).
Says if he's hearing things right either Michi or Vro are the best options for the day. Michi as potential info lynch from d1 but that meta reasons shouldn't play as big a part in d2. Vro because of his own risky moves. Says he's not as info rich as Michi but he would prefer to lynch Vro.
Addresses a post by BSR - says he had his order of events wrong with Silver's joke about the Valerians and that it came after Hapi's lynch. Also that he admits he jumped on the Michi wagon but hardly created it, just agreed with the meta reason and that was the best we had d1 but now we had the flip-flopping of votes. Also questions how town doing nothing is ever good for town (regarding BSR's post). Asks if BSR wants to banter, says that BSR had a bad argument about just sitting back and doing nothing.
Questions my suspicion about him not scum hunting by saying in his defense when has he ever scum hunted. Talks to TGN trying to prod him some more. Asks his thoughts on the players of interest that day - TGN, BSR, Vro, somewhat Michi, and Silver himself. Says he thinks Red could be considered interesting if he also wanted to talk about him.
Says he'd like to take a closer look at Sapph. Something feels off, used to more frustrated yet cheerful headvoice from him, getting more blase feeling and not sure if that's good or bad. Guesses he'll ISO to see if something feels off.
Says he wasn't sussing Moot just trying to connect to his shoes and that Moot has a tendency to pick out stranger things than others.
Replies to Moot asking what makes the strange things he picks out different than the strange things anyone else picks out and Ruguo jokes that he doesn't know but maybe he just has a guilty looking face. Says would be good to hear from Michi but in his defense he did drag him and Laur into something out of game.
Votes TGN for pressure. Says he knows he can do better, will remove if he gives any useful posts but if he doesn't he'll be okay lynching him.
Replies to TGN basically trying to help him out, says he doesn't want to lynch him because he has potential but can't help him if he won't help himself.
Replies to another TGN post saying he can work with that reply. Says why he thinks his wagon took off. Asks him his thoughts on Vro, BSR, Ruguo, Sapph, Red, and Michi. Encourages TGN some more.
Disputes Red's post casting suspicion on him and says he's putting words in his mouth and he doesn't like that. Unvotes TGN because he gave him what he wanted. Says he's okay with a Vro lynch but would prefer a BSR lynch even though that's not on the table.
Liked Mele's observations about me, says there are parallels between my play this game and the previous ZD one we just played together where I was scum.
Didn't like Michi's post about lurkers, said felt like he was trying to avoid the major wagons.
Says Sapph is still coming up short and uncomfy to him, but promised an ISO before he moved on with that, and wasn't worth starting a wagon with so little time. Says his options seem like Doc, TGN, Vro, and himself. Votes Vro. Says Vro's lynch will give us information though he's not his first choice but hardly his last.
Cozmik asks why she shouldn't jump on the Silver wagon and Silver gives his reasoning and defense why. Asks if scum would work so hard to get TGN to prove his innocence.
Says can't defend against Mele and her voting patterns. But says he gave he gave his reasons for voting Michi and Vro.
Mele says he could vote someone other than Vro and he says to assure his death, seems like the best idea ever. Doesn't wanna chance a tie and dying from it, and unless someone helps make BSR viable he's staying where he is.
Last post says for us to do the right thing when he's gone and tells TGN to remember what they talked about, he knows he has it in him and so does everyone else.
Some fluff posts.
Says he gets the feeling we need to vote Michi off for meta after what Vro pointed out and votes Michi.
Questions Ogun's post and says it feels off. Puts some suspicion on Ogun.
Town reads Mele.
Says that he can't read people when he hosts games referring to someone questioning his suspicion of Ogun for playing how he always does.
Questions what info Vro was holding onto regarding BSR.
Says Red's defense of cozmik is NAI and Red defending himself with his own meta is something he'd do as either alignment.
Says Wintermoot's post looked like it reeked of ""I have no idea what's going on but really tried to make an informed effort". Soft defends Wintermoot saying he can vouch that he's been busy. Says he does make some good points but does what Silver himself does which is read up and note small odd things then expand on them a lot for no reason.
Says that "Minish is playing like Minish", discusses how he saw my vote for Michi as coming from a place of one scumspect lynched is better than no scumspects lynched. Thought my switch to Red laid out my reasons well, even if he didn't believe in them.
Someone mentions Gerrick being quiet and Silver agrees and says Gerrick is quiet as scum and that him and BSR lurking doesn't sit right with him.
Makes a joke post blaming the Valerians for no one dying.
Joke post about Doc being scum.
Says hi to Kane and asks why he doesn't remember a single of his posts from d1. Then says it's because he's inept at remembering who is playing.
Explains what he meant by the Valerians post and says it houses some of the best scum players. Names BSR, Hapi, and Michi.
Some fluff.
Asks TGN not to just randomly vote after he placed a vote for Wintermoot. Tries to prod him a bit about the vote.
Mentions he can't tell scum Minish from town Minish.
Doesn't think it odd that Vro tied a wagon, but didn't like his vote jumping.
Addresses ENE (prods to post more or he'll assume he's lurking scum), Wisch (says they're useful and tells them to keep poking things, and that Sapph could use a good prod), Mele (jokes that he needs more walls from her, but also says she's right about looking into the wagons and smart scum wouldn't all jump on one wagon especially when two were viable), Doc (asks him to state something useful if he's going to drop in), and Nyght (says that watching lurkers is a good play but that there are probably active scum around, then asks for his perspective on anyone who's posted more than Doc/Cozmik or anyone that's posted recently).
Says if he's hearing things right either Michi or Vro are the best options for the day. Michi as potential info lynch from d1 but that meta reasons shouldn't play as big a part in d2. Vro because of his own risky moves. Says he's not as info rich as Michi but he would prefer to lynch Vro.
Addresses a post by BSR - says he had his order of events wrong with Silver's joke about the Valerians and that it came after Hapi's lynch. Also that he admits he jumped on the Michi wagon but hardly created it, just agreed with the meta reason and that was the best we had d1 but now we had the flip-flopping of votes. Also questions how town doing nothing is ever good for town (regarding BSR's post). Asks if BSR wants to banter, says that BSR had a bad argument about just sitting back and doing nothing.
Questions my suspicion about him not scum hunting by saying in his defense when has he ever scum hunted. Talks to TGN trying to prod him some more. Asks his thoughts on the players of interest that day - TGN, BSR, Vro, somewhat Michi, and Silver himself. Says he thinks Red could be considered interesting if he also wanted to talk about him.
Says he'd like to take a closer look at Sapph. Something feels off, used to more frustrated yet cheerful headvoice from him, getting more blase feeling and not sure if that's good or bad. Guesses he'll ISO to see if something feels off.
Says he wasn't sussing Moot just trying to connect to his shoes and that Moot has a tendency to pick out stranger things than others.
Replies to Moot asking what makes the strange things he picks out different than the strange things anyone else picks out and Ruguo jokes that he doesn't know but maybe he just has a guilty looking face. Says would be good to hear from Michi but in his defense he did drag him and Laur into something out of game.
Votes TGN for pressure. Says he knows he can do better, will remove if he gives any useful posts but if he doesn't he'll be okay lynching him.
Replies to TGN basically trying to help him out, says he doesn't want to lynch him because he has potential but can't help him if he won't help himself.
Replies to another TGN post saying he can work with that reply. Says why he thinks his wagon took off. Asks him his thoughts on Vro, BSR, Ruguo, Sapph, Red, and Michi. Encourages TGN some more.
Disputes Red's post casting suspicion on him and says he's putting words in his mouth and he doesn't like that. Unvotes TGN because he gave him what he wanted. Says he's okay with a Vro lynch but would prefer a BSR lynch even though that's not on the table.
Liked Mele's observations about me, says there are parallels between my play this game and the previous ZD one we just played together where I was scum.
Didn't like Michi's post about lurkers, said felt like he was trying to avoid the major wagons.
Says Sapph is still coming up short and uncomfy to him, but promised an ISO before he moved on with that, and wasn't worth starting a wagon with so little time. Says his options seem like Doc, TGN, Vro, and himself. Votes Vro. Says Vro's lynch will give us information though he's not his first choice but hardly his last.
Cozmik asks why she shouldn't jump on the Silver wagon and Silver gives his reasoning and defense why. Asks if scum would work so hard to get TGN to prove his innocence.
Says can't defend against Mele and her voting patterns. But says he gave he gave his reasons for voting Michi and Vro.
Mele says he could vote someone other than Vro and he says to assure his death, seems like the best idea ever. Doesn't wanna chance a tie and dying from it, and unless someone helps make BSR viable he's staying where he is.
Last post says for us to do the right thing when he's gone and tells TGN to remember what they talked about, he knows he has it in him and so does everyone else.
I don't know if Silver distances this hard from BSR. Though he never did once vote him even though he said he preferred his lynch. I feel like his posts about Sapph may be more in line with distancing. It was just light suspicion that he gives himself the option to back out of by claiming he'll do an ISO that he never does. His interactions with TGN do seem a but scum coaching scum. So I guess that option is still on the table. His constant bringing up of Red seems to make Red look even townier now. His random addressing of Wisch pings me a bit, but it's very small.
Annnnd I just went and look where Sapph's vote fell on the Ruguo wagon and it was actually the cause of the tie. Fuck I was really feeling like a BSR/Sapph contending wagons could be good for the day but that made me less certain. Unless Sapph was going with a distancing plan but he could have voted Vro there. I dunno, this BSR lynch doesn't feel great but I'm at a loss of where to go from here.
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 04:54:03 PM
I wouldn’t mind TGN/Sapph wagons uwu
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 04:58:27 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 05:02:49 PM
why is that?I don’t buy your LAMIST act specially with people telling us that you’re more than capable of playing seriously, which also makes me question your “derp”.
I feel like Silver was frustrated at you not pushing people around as his scumbud and saw an opportunity to maybe bus you if people gave up on Vro, but that backfired.
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 05:05:05 PM
Post by: Minish on February 08, 2021, 05:05:40 PM
BSR gives a lot of info.
Sapph similarly I feel would give info because I'm kinda feeling like him and BSR aren't aligned.
TGN kinda gives some info on Doc. I really wanna feel like Doc is town but his insistance on the TGN/Vro connection after yesterday feels like it could be scum trying to setup a mislynch. Similarly he could just be tunneled.
Post by: Vroendal on February 08, 2021, 05:08:29 PM
I would greatly like to hear ExLight's thoughts on Minish.Now that you've had interactions, are you able to analyze Minish more?
Minish, would you perhaps be willing to make a new reads list? If we proceed in thinking that you're town, I'm curious to see where you would lead us next. I want to believe you, but it would help me if you led a charge against scum today, ya know?Friendly reminder that I did ask about this at one point.
I have much reading to do. I will post later.Please do so sooner rather than later, your perspective helps me.
@BraveSirRobin you are being voted, do you have any contributions you want to make?
Post by: Minish on February 08, 2021, 05:10:40 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 08, 2021, 05:12:23 PM
Ordered chronologically
Gerrick - (Red Mones)
BraveSirRobin - (Sapphiron, Gerrick, Vroendal)
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 05:13:33 PM
Why are you townreading Red again, Minish?
I had a feeling he was townie but I couldn't really explain why so I'm kinda on the fence about him too.
Post by: Minish on February 08, 2021, 05:24:16 PM
Nyght
Red
HumanDawn
Legacy
Cozmikrae
Town lean
Anubhav
Vro
Michi
Kane (this one is very very light based on one thing I don't want to mention at the moment)
Null
Wintermoot
Doc (want to lean town)
Ex (it's unfortunate he replaced in late because I get my best reads of him during d1)
Gerrick
BSR (could go either way, depends on other's alignments)
TGN (really could go either way with him)
Scum Lean
Sapphiron
Wischland (Due to the ease of town reads they're getting when they don't feel similar to last game, as well as Silver's odd post mentioning them.)
The scum lean section is pretty bare, but at the moment quite a few reads depend on info about others. TGN, BSR, and Doc could end up there.
(Note that this is all based on just how I'm feeling at the moment when I went down the player list and thought about each player, more in depth reads would rely on me rereading some things.)
Post by: Minish on February 08, 2021, 05:27:01 PM
Vote: Sapph
Why are you townreading Red again, Minish?
I had a feeling he was townie but I couldn't really explain why so I'm kinda on the fence about him too.
Part of it was his overall tone d2. He seemed excited to possibly be a part of a scum lynch because he seemed like he really believed Mele about Silver and helped push that. He kinda has that excited but unsure town feel. Also Silver constantly brought him up out of nowhere when asking other's opinions on players which felt really odd to me and not like a scumbud asking about a scumbud, but potentially scum putting out feelers to see if they could push him.
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 05:30:40 PM
I need to hear more of you
you have until 12:30 CTD
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 05:33:01 PM
Post by: Minish on February 08, 2021, 05:35:01 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 08, 2021, 05:35:35 PM
Do you have any reads you want to throw out TGN?
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 05:41:12 PM
I would rather not get any more votes on BSR until later, 3 votes is enough pressure and there's over 11 hours left in the Day Phase.BSR hasn't been talking, trying to be careful, just like a wolf.
Do you have any reads you want to throw out TGN?
I want to give him a chance but come ON!
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 05:44:54 PM
you think he’d be more likely to stay quiet as scum than as wolf? Isn’t it kinda NAI?I would rather not get any more votes on BSR until later, 3 votes is enough pressure and there's over 11 hours left in the Day Phase.BSR hasn't been talking, trying to be careful, just like a wolf.
Do you have any reads you want to throw out TGN?
I want to give him a chance but come ON!
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 05:49:24 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 06:06:48 PM
My reasoning is as a town you don't need to be scared to post because you know you're clear, but as a wolf you have to watch what you say, be cautious. I don't know how many other people have the same mindset but that's what I thinkI feel like there’s a difference between being cautious and being inactive. As it is right now the wagon is built around someone that hasn’t been around to defend themselves.
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 06:08:08 PM
I'm going to reach out to BSR on NS, get him to come over
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 08, 2021, 06:11:39 PM
Hello bloody thirsty people, turns out the true monsters are we humans.
On that note, Vote: Vroendal
This particular quote makes me feel uneasy , though i am not entirely sure if it is a statement of joke or not , but its definitely sus . I won't vote anytime soon , need to get more info
Post by: Sapphiron on February 08, 2021, 06:59:06 PM
And Ex, I don’t regret disliking D1 meta votes enough to disregard the benefits of using meta on the very first day phase, when not everyone has gotten a chance to engage the game yet. I do use meta subsequently, but not on D1.
Also, because I am seeing stuff similar to Lau-Me interactions like last game. In the event I am not back by the end of the day phase and I happened to be lynched, try not to reaction vote against the people who pushed against me.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 08, 2021, 07:20:50 PM
Ruguo ISO
Votes for Doc because "curse."
Votes for Michi because meta.
Accuses Ogun of being scumbuds with Michi.
Defends Mel, interestingly.
Defends Moot, Minish and Red Mones. Mentions Gerrick is playing like scum.
Blames Valerians for no death.
Jokes that Doc is wolf.
Begs TGN to vote more seriously. (This makes TGN feel sus again.)
Suddenly decides he doesn't know if Minish is scum or not.
Thinks Michi and Vro are sus.
Accidentally, links himself and TGN. Ha.
Tells Moot he's sus.
Coaches TGN, asks for opinions on following players: Vro, Ruguo, BSR, Sapph, Red, Michi
Talks some more about Doc and TGN and why he won't vote for them. (This is sus to me.)
Votes for Vro, prefers to vote for BSR.
Mentions wanting someone had helped him start a BSR wagon so he could have gotten off Vro.
More pre-death TGN coaching.
Votes for Michi because meta.
Accuses Ogun of being scumbuds with Michi.
Defends Mel, interestingly.
Defends Moot, Minish and Red Mones. Mentions Gerrick is playing like scum.
Blames Valerians for no death.
Jokes that Doc is wolf.
Begs TGN to vote more seriously. (This makes TGN feel sus again.)
Suddenly decides he doesn't know if Minish is scum or not.
Thinks Michi and Vro are sus.
Accidentally, links himself and TGN. Ha.
Tells Moot he's sus.
Coaches TGN, asks for opinions on following players: Vro, Ruguo, BSR, Sapph, Red, Michi
Talks some more about Doc and TGN and why he won't vote for them. (This is sus to me.)
Votes for Vro, prefers to vote for BSR.
Mentions wanting someone had helped him start a BSR wagon so he could have gotten off Vro.
More pre-death TGN coaching.
So... based on a confirmed wolf, I'm sussing Doc and TGN specifically. He deliberately used TGN's patterns as a way to paint himself as town. And he joke votes/refuses to vote for Doc. Minish could also be vaguely scummy based on Ruguo's post. But I'm not sold on that yet. I might want to ISO Minish and see how I feel.
I voted for TGN in D2 and let him talk me out of it. However, I have more reasons to vote for TGN than Doc at the moment, so...
Vote: TGN
Post by: Doc on February 08, 2021, 07:22:30 PM
(I don't think anyone here is dumb enough to believe it's the former.)
But since I remain convinced there's a link between him and TGN, I have an acceptable workaround.
Vote: TGN.
Post by: Minish on February 08, 2021, 07:28:57 PM
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 07:59:00 PM
if he was coaching me he would have done it in a PM if I was a wolf.
also post the link to when he had a connection to me
Post by: Minish on February 08, 2021, 08:40:42 PM
for real?
if he was coaching me he would have done it in a PM if I was a wolf.
also post the link to when he had a connection to me
He would do it in public to distance. Because usually people would be like, oh he's helping him in public it must mean they don't have a scum chat together. So scum will often do stuff like that for town cred.
Also the link between you is d2 when he voted you and kept prodding you until he was able to unvote and hop onto Vro's counterwagon.
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 08:45:51 PM
was this during the peak of my wagon?for real?
if he was coaching me he would have done it in a PM if I was a wolf.
also post the link to when he had a connection to me
He would do it in public to distance. Because usually people would be like, oh he's helping him in public it must mean they don't have a scum chat together. So scum will often do stuff like that for town cred.
Also the link between you is d2 when he voted you and kept prodding you until he was able to unvote and hop onto Vro's counterwagon.
Post by: Minish on February 08, 2021, 09:00:30 PM
was this during the peak of my wagon?for real?
if he was coaching me he would have done it in a PM if I was a wolf.
also post the link to when he had a connection to me
He would do it in public to distance. Because usually people would be like, oh he's helping him in public it must mean they don't have a scum chat together. So scum will often do stuff like that for town cred.
Also the link between you is d2 when he voted you and kept prodding you until he was able to unvote and hop onto Vro's counterwagon.
Not sure when on the wagon it was. But it was somewhere around when it was picking up more steam I believe.
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 09:11:40 PM
(we are talking about Ruguo right, if not the premise stays the same, just different name)
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 09:40:25 PM
Ok so I think Ruguo saw that I was getting votes very fast, and thought it would be an easy kill, then I got cleared so without a motive to keep my vote, Ruguo voted someone else
(we are talking about Ruguo right, if not the premise stays the same, just different name)
First of all, you didn't get cleared.
So when your ass was in the line before you were willing to even self vote yourself closer to a hammer, but now you're panicking and struggling to survive because of half the amount of votes? What happened? Maybe it's because you don't want your team to take a hit twice in a row?
@LaurentusMin, isn't this post of yours a bit problematic? It has literally the same issue as the one you pointed out in the other game, as in scum being able to spot the Doctor that blocked their kill.
I'm thinking maybe everyone should just post their top town read? If doc did stop a kill last night that would clear someone, but I don't want them to out themselves so at least if we all did this and doc died we could possibly know their results.
The one backfire is that scum could possibly find out who doc is because they would know who the kill failed on. But like I said, I doubt it was a random person so likely someone multiple people are reading as town.Oh ok, you pointed that out.
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 09:56:55 PM
*insert generic complaint about reading the thread here*This post makes me wanna do something
Aww, Min doesn't like me anymore. That's sad. In my defense though, when have I ever scumhunted? I think I did one misguided attempt at attacking last game and a lot of waffling between the wifom.
Hey TGN, It's good to bring up past game in our defense, but do be careful that defending yourself or omgus voting isn't the only actions you contribute. I think the best way for you to absolve yourself would be to tell us how you're feeling about certain players, especially those of interest today. That currently seems to include You, BSR, Vro, Somewhat Michi, and I guess also me. Hooray, I'm interesting! I think Red could also be considered interesting if you wanna talk about that too.
I'd like to take a closer look at Sapph- something seems a bit off there. Now I could be misremembering, but I've come to expect longer and more of a...frustrated yet cheerful headvoice from him. I'm getting more of a blase feeling, and I don't remember if that's good or bad. So I guess I'll go ISO and see if anything else seems of at some point.My post was neither defensive or in response to 'suspicion thrown' my way. Ruguo just said I expanded a lot on a little for no good reason, and I legitimately wonder why people feel that way because it came up after D1 last game as well. Expanding a lot on a little is what everyone does on D1, so why is it odd that I do it?
That's fair, I wasn't sussing you, just trying to connect to your shoes. You just have a tendency to pick out somewhat strange things compared to others, Moot. That's not bad.
That's about what I've got, yup.
it has AtE, it has fingerpointing, it probably has distancing, it has hyperdefensiveness
feels like an attempt of coaching TGN
What are the odds of a Silver/Sapph/TGN team?
TGN's wagon started escalating really quickly after they voted for Sapph, with Silver and himself voting there. I can see that as Silver maybe panicking and wanting to get rid of TGN while his wagon was growing before someone maybe started a case on Sapph since the latter is probably more experienced and is taking the game more seriously.
TGN realizes that and goes with it wanting to sacrifice himself to make Sapph and Silver look better, but Vro's wagon starts growing and most of the team decides to maybe pushing for a mislynch instead because they assume it's a better play than lose a scum early on.
The interactions between Silver are really funny, Silver seems desperate to see a reaction by TGN which is something I feel like he avoids a lot as scum pushing town since I feel like he usually backs off and throws some shade instead (if player is stronger to him) or hounds harder (if player is weaker). It's kinda funny how TGN also puts Silver really high in his readslist considering how Silver was still pushing him and was one of the first people to kinda point fingers at TGN's behavior. I'd maybe expect OMGUS there, not the complete opposite? It's a bit strange how he puts Sapph there despite voting for him earlier too.
Apparently the derp is him asking if Vro was the host, not Silver though. I don't buy this, it's really just nonsense. Can't remember if Vro corrected us or just watched us point fingers at Silver about this tho :glare:
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 10:04:45 PM
it's my first list so... hereMaybe a tinfoil theory, but I think he put the entire scumteam on his Townreads...
also, I will put aside all votes against meSpoilerTown core/leans
Ruguo: seems very helpful
Vro: Vro is the host right?
Doc: gives reasons for actions
Wintermoot: not very active but when on, he gives very good post
Cozmikrae: New player with very good logic
Sapphiron: like Ruguo
Null
Gerrik
Anubhav Ghosh
Wischland
ENE
Alexander Valentine
Ogun: for everyone up above in null they haven't posted, don't post often, or it doesn't feel like they post
BSR: lots of people throwing out sus against him, hasn't rung any bells
everyone else
Scum lead
only D2, can't think of anyone who rings a bell
At some other point he seems bothered by Cozmikrae voting him, so I think that's the last scum.
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 10:08:12 PM
funny I'm less confident of her possibly doing that as scum than Sapph due to the supposed lack of experience with forum mafia
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 10:10:43 PM
WHY ARE WE VOTING Vro AND Ruguo!...maybe Vro?
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 10:12:38 PM
We can worry about these tinfoilish theories if TGN flips, which is my guess
Unvote
Vote: TGN
Post by: Vroendal on February 08, 2021, 10:13:06 PM
Apparently the derp is him asking if Vro was the host, not Silver though. I don't buy this, it's really just nonsense. Can't remember if Vro corrected us or just watched us point fingers at Silver about this tho :glare:Eh? Did you mean point fingers at TGN? Frankly I've decided to ignore his "derp" statement about me being host, if I think about it it will just confuse me. I did correct him though right after he said it.
it's my first list so... hereI am not the host, Laurentus is the host.
also, I will put aside all votes against meSpoilerTown core/leans
Ruguo: seems very helpful
Vro: Vro is the host right?
Doc: gives reasons for actions
Wintermoot: not very active but when on, he gives very good post
Cozmikrae: New player with very good logic
Sapphiron: like Ruguo
Null
Gerrik
Anubhav Ghosh
Wischland
ENE
Alexander Valentine
Ogun: for everyone up above in null they haven't posted, don't post often, or it doesn't feel like they post
BSR: lots of people throwing out sus against him, hasn't rung any bells
everyone else
Scum lead
only D2, can't think of anyone who rings a bell
If you think Sapphrion is helpful and you're town leaning him, then why are you voting him?
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 10:16:02 PM
No, I meant at Silver.Apparently the derp is him asking if Vro was the host, not Silver though. I don't buy this, it's really just nonsense. Can't remember if Vro corrected us or just watched us point fingers at Silver about this tho :glare:Eh? Did you mean point fingers at TGN? Frankly I've decided to ignore his "derp" statement about me being host, if I think about it it will just confuse me. I did correct him though right after he said it.it's my first list so... hereI am not the host, Laurentus is the host.
also, I will put aside all votes against meSpoilerTown core/leans
Ruguo: seems very helpful
Vro: Vro is the host right?
Doc: gives reasons for actions
Wintermoot: not very active but when on, he gives very good post
Cozmikrae: New player with very good logic
Sapphiron: like Ruguo
Null
Gerrik
Anubhav Ghosh
Wischland
ENE
Alexander Valentine
Ogun: for everyone up above in null they haven't posted, don't post often, or it doesn't feel like they post
BSR: lots of people throwing out sus against him, hasn't rung any bells
everyone else
Scum lead
only D2, can't think of anyone who rings a bell
If you think Sapphrion is helpful and you're town leaning him, then why are you voting him?
Me and Minish were discussing that earlier in the Day, and we had an extra point against TGN being scum because we misremembered him saying it was Silver as the host, so it would make more sense for that to happen if Silver was in a scumchat with him in DMs. You even liked one of the posts (Post #156683).
Post by: HumanDawn on February 08, 2021, 10:21:46 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 08, 2021, 10:26:54 PM
Ohhhh, I did like this post you're right.I don't know tbh. He seems to be new to mafia and new to this site. So it's possible.oh hmm
still, I don’t think this changes much for me
in any case even if it was a derp he would have both Lau and Silver in the scumchat which makes more sense to me than him only getting dms from Lau and thinking silver is the host
That's true, not correcting you looks really bad for me right now, since the reasoning from your post actually implicates me as the actual subject of TGN's derp. I don't have an excuse, and I'm not sure why I even liked the post, I might've misread?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 08, 2021, 10:27:25 PM
Post by: HumanDawn on February 08, 2021, 10:31:35 PM
Hello guys, I’m from Bulbagarden and from here I only know of ExLight, Minish and Vroendal. It’s going to take a while for me to read the game and get my groove on. In the meantime can somebody give me a bit of notes of what went on? Day 2’s lynch was a scum lynch - what helped achieve that?To be honest after going over some of the Day I realize that this synopsis is very heavily subjectively based, and I'm wondering whether it's useful to even accept this as a post, as it comes to a WIFOM argument of whether you should pay attention to it or not because it's too influenced by my personal perspective. If you think it's useful to read what I remember to see my personal viewpoint, I'll make D2, but both days were such a tangled mess I feel you would get a lot more value by reading it through from your own eyes. There's just too much room for error of who would find what significant.
Like actually, I made this to keep part of my promise, it's trash though. Don't read it. Literally just ignore it.D1 synopsis (influenced from personal perspective)I know you've most likely already gone through D1, but as a refresher for myself and others, D1 started as a chaotic mess with a slurry of joke votes and wagons all over the place. There was more significant discussion on Hapi's chaotic playstyle making her a good lynch, and why lynching D1 was a good idea. The turning point of the day I feel was when I tried to figure out a vote on any of the current wagons through actual effort in justification and made this post (which conveniently lays out the past votes of the day, huzzah, less work) -Well, many hours have elapsed and not a great amount has happened.It should be noted that I had miscounted and with Red's switch of votes there was only a majority on Hapi. This prompted research into Michi's past games from various players (including himself) where it was found that in the three most recent games his meta had been a earlier votes (one as a retaliation joke vote, which I mean, still counts as an early vote no matter how you twist it) as 2 town aligned roles, and his 1 scum game showed that he voted much later in the day. His other games took place more than a year ago. This prompted votes/pushes at various points in the day from Ruguo, Wisch, and Minish, while some stated their discomfort with a wagon instigated by meta. Melehan made a push against cozmik for what she viewed as suspicious reasoning and voting patterns. Michi presented his defense, which I personally found fault with, but further promoted stated discomfort in his vote from other players. At some point Red was pushed by Minish for defending cozmik. I tried to draw him out more, and unvoted him, he presented more defense which included refusing to state perspectives on other players and suggesting night action choices from the Seer which prompted me to double-down and vote him again. At this point there was one less vote on Hapi prompted by wagonomics reasoning from Doc. After Hapi stated discomfort in Michi's lynch, I made a last-minute decision to unvote and leave it to a coinflip. Hapi was lynched, and flipped villager. There's more I could go over but this is just a synopsis from my memories and skimming the Day Phase. The voting ended with these choices -
As a reminder, currently the order of votes have gone like:
Red Mones - Hapi (For a joking comment)
Hapi - RM (In retaliation)
Hapi - Melehan (Given reason to fulfill the prophecy)
RM - cozmikrae (For the same joking comment as Hapi)
Wintermoot - NyghtOwl (Saw the more senior members as likelier to be scum)
Doc - Silv (Given reason as Doc's scum curse)
Vroendal - Sapphrion (Given reason as RNG)
Michi - Gerrick (Michi's opinion is wrong and he's a bad person)
Sapph - TGN (Given reason "for all the reasons you guys voted each other")Mel- RM (Paranoia from Mel's references, immediately unvoted)
The wagons are rather spread out atm with a majority on Hapi and RM with 2 votes. The most convincing reason up here right now to me is actually the vote on Michi oddly enough XD, in the past games he's been among the first to vote, this change in tactics requires more explanation. I'm aware this will make the majority split three ways, still a good amount of time left.
Vote - Michi
Ruguo - 1 (Red Mones)
Red Mones - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
I spent much more time on the Michi dilemma rather than the Hapi votes, as this is what mainly led to the next day's events.
I know somebody describing a synopsis for somebody else can have bias - everyone's opinion is influenced by their perspective which affects how they tackle challenges to change the world around them.
You don't necessarily have to keep your promise, neither do you have to treat it like trash.
Thank you for taking your time Vroendel :). I will try to return the favor later on in the game with more effort.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 08, 2021, 10:37:15 PM
Hmm, her vote kinda helped shift from Vro to Silver though hmmAre you talking about my vote?
funny I'm less confident of her possibly doing that as scum than Sapph due to the supposed lack of experience with forum mafia
So I was feeling like Vro's quick decision to unvote and leave it to a coinflip was suspicious. He made a few heartfelt pleas for his innocence that seemed convincing. And since TGN seemed like he was turning over a new leaf with quitting the jokey/mysterious votes I was left with no vote and no really convincing leads. I pushed Ruguo a little bit, he wasn't very convincing. Mel then pointed out that Ruguo had been on 2 wagons (that I believed would have been mislynches), Vro's and Michi's I think. I largely disbelieved the whole Michi debacle, so regardless of the coaching, I voted for Ruguo.
Now that coaching was the saving grace for both Ruguo and TGN. But since Ruguo flipped red, it makes me see it differently. It was definitely a show, whether for both their benefits or not, I'm not sure.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 08, 2021, 10:43:26 PM
Vro's voting and unvoting still remains questionable to me , after all , if he turns out as a scum , he will have the best knowledge about lynch consequences . Either way , I have strong gut feelings , that Vro will be lynched in all certainty . Ig everyone would be happy to remove one suspect of the list of scum than keep one hoping him to be innocent . Sorry Vro if this hurts u , but u made a bad name for urself. I hope u understand whatever the play is here , u have drawn far too much suspicion
this post raises !!! in my head
“ye bro sorry if you’re good man you brought it on yourself not because our thinking could be wrong”
This was a decoy sort of post i would say . What i was looking for was retaliation , which unfortunately took place before this post as many cited Vro's chance of being a townie and no one . I looked out for people who did not retaliate , because even after the best defenses and clarifications i stubbornly stood on my words , and said things as if it was fixed that Vro will be lynched by the town . The post did not go very well , as i did not receive counters until now , and here I am justifying why i did it . It was just a measure to clear out some people out of suspicion momentarily
Looking for retaliation makes sense. This post makes me feel a lot better about you. Your late vote on Ruguo at the end pings me, but... ehh?
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 10:47:03 PM
Hope you don't mind if I ask for an explanation about the votes on Sapphiron right now? Genuine question, it's just that I haven't really formed a strong opinion on them yet.I think only Minish is on him right now as I moved to TGN, so I don't think it's worth pursuing it right now.
Her logic was that BSR and Sapph aren't aligned, plus she felt like Silver was attempting to distance him.
Mine is mirror hers, but also because I'm aware Sapph is a high tier player and his content has been lackluster to borderline scummy. I'm not seeing a big amount of collaboration in scumhunting (and I know I'm not the only one because Wischland?/Wintermoot? pointed it out at one point too), with his main contribution only been kinda surfing on the Silver train to get a bit of suspicion off his back. And god, oh god that post he made that I quoted earlier in the Day just makes me go AAAAAAAAAA.
Yea, it makes me raise an eyebrow. In case I'm more interested at TGN/Sapph than you rn.Ohhhh, I did like this post you're right.I don't know tbh. He seems to be new to mafia and new to this site. So it's possible.oh hmm
still, I don’t think this changes much for me
in any case even if it was a derp he would have both Lau and Silver in the scumchat which makes more sense to me than him only getting dms from Lau and thinking silver is the host
That's true, not correcting you looks really bad for me right now, since the reasoning from your post actually implicates me as the actual subject of TGN's derp. I don't have an excuse, and I'm not sure why I even liked the post, I might've misread?
That's really fair, I can see the logic behind that, and seems natural enough. Twas more of a momentary thought tinfoil, don't mind it too much lmao.Hmm, her vote kinda helped shift from Vro to Silver though hmmAre you talking about my vote?
funny I'm less confident of her possibly doing that as scum than Sapph due to the supposed lack of experience with forum mafia
So I was feeling like Vro's quick decision to unvote and leave it to a coinflip was suspicious. He made a few heartfelt pleas for his innocence that seemed convincing. And since TGN seemed like he was turning over a new leaf with quitting the jokey/mysterious votes I was left with no vote and no really convincing leads. I pushed Ruguo a little bit, he wasn't very convincing. Mel then pointed out that Ruguo had been on 2 wagons (that I believed would have been mislynches), Vro's and Michi's I think. I largely disbelieved the whole Michi debacle, so regardless of the coaching, I voted for Ruguo.
Now that coaching was the saving grace for both Ruguo and TGN. But since Ruguo flipped red, it makes me see it differently. It was definitely a show, whether for both their benefits or not, I'm not sure.
On a second thought it doesn't really make sense to pair you with TGN if he flips scum considering you're voting him rn, tbh.
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 10:49:10 PM
ALL OF THAT WAS UNNECESSARY!
all of that could have been in one post
also
What if I'm not a wolf? then what is your plan.
There are other people doing sus things but you decide to push me?
And your unvote? You see I'm gaining votes, maybe the person you voted for was your scum buddy, then you saw I got votes then made ~3 posts about me. Kinda sus
Post by: HumanDawn on February 08, 2021, 10:51:58 PM
HumanDawn comes in and starts immediately solving which I think is a great look and I agree with most of their assessments (full reads + explanations are coming from me but it's taking longer than expected). Probably my top town read right now.
So from a mind meld basically?
Town
HumanDawn
Why? I have barely touched the game.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 08, 2021, 10:59:47 PM
TGN looks like he is about to be lynched - I don't feel confident pushing this but admittedly I don't have as much of a grasp of the game as other players so my opinion may be moot in who we should actually lynch. I don't buy that the whole thing was distancing. From my experience, how Ruguo coached TGN seems familiar of how I've seen scum coach town in how they act overly friendly. Ruguo would have had more success in trying to be combative to TGN to distance rather than give advice. Maybe you can argue that it's WIFOM and that's what they wanted me to think, but it's not the impression I'm getting at least.
@cozmikrae - Could you link me to the post that shows Ruguo linking himself to TGN?
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 11:03:55 PM
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE ONE POSTLol. Any Wolf can say "what if I'm not a wolf?" in an attempt of fear mongering Town, and it's as silly as someone being held on trial saying "ok, but what if I'm not guilty?" to the judge. If you wanted to make yourself look like a Town player you could've spent more energy not memeing nor wobbling around just only defending yourself -and only yourself- and instead focused on helping finding other Wolves.
ALL OF THAT WAS UNNECESSARY!
all of that could have been in one post
also
What if I'm not a wolf? then what is your plan.
There are other people doing sus things but you decide to push me?
And your unvote? You see I'm gaining votes, maybe the person you voted for was your scum buddy, then you saw I got votes then made ~3 posts about me. Kinda sus
And in case you get lynched your flip will provide information too. No matter which alignment you flip, it will help us reanalyze the wagons from previous days (specially D2), and the interactions people had directly and indirectly with you. Your self preservation hardly matters more than your team's, and you should've kept that in mind throughout the whole game.
If you want to help Town go in the right path you can start making an updated readlist telling your thoughts on the living players for us to work with during the next Phase.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 08, 2021, 11:06:58 PM
Ah, that makes more sense. Thank you. I'm not sure how I'm feeling about lynching BSR right now, especially since one of the major arguments for it is an information lynch, which are usually not great ideas (although to be fair I think it may be acceptable here because of the high number of mislynches we have at our disposal. I'm not sure what the community's stance on info lynches are but I'm currently not really interested in voting there yet and would like to find a better vote).Hope you don't mind if I ask for an explanation about the votes on Sapphiron right now? Genuine question, it's just that I haven't really formed a strong opinion on them yet.I think only Minish is on him right now as I moved to TGN, so I don't think it's worth pursuing it right now.
Her logic was that BSR and Sapph aren't aligned, plus she felt like Silver was attempting to distance him.
Mine is mirror hers, but also because I'm aware Sapph is a high tier player and his content has been lackluster to borderline scummy. I'm not seeing a big amount of collaboration in scumhunting (and I know I'm not the only one because Wischland?/Wintermoot? pointed it out at one point too), with his main contribution only been kinda surfing on the Silver train to get a bit of suspicion off his back. And god, oh god that post he made that I quoted earlier in the Day just makes me go AAAAAAAAAA.Yea, it makes me raise an eyebrow. In case I'm more interested at TGN/Sapph than you rn.Ohhhh, I did like this post you're right.I don't know tbh. He seems to be new to mafia and new to this site. So it's possible.oh hmm
still, I don’t think this changes much for me
in any case even if it was a derp he would have both Lau and Silver in the scumchat which makes more sense to me than him only getting dms from Lau and thinking silver is the host
That's true, not correcting you looks really bad for me right now, since the reasoning from your post actually implicates me as the actual subject of TGN's derp. I don't have an excuse, and I'm not sure why I even liked the post, I might've misread?That's really fair, I can see the logic behind that, and seems natural enough. Twas more of a momentary thought tinfoil, don't mind it too much lmao.Hmm, her vote kinda helped shift from Vro to Silver though hmmAre you talking about my vote?
funny I'm less confident of her possibly doing that as scum than Sapph due to the supposed lack of experience with forum mafia
So I was feeling like Vro's quick decision to unvote and leave it to a coinflip was suspicious. He made a few heartfelt pleas for his innocence that seemed convincing. And since TGN seemed like he was turning over a new leaf with quitting the jokey/mysterious votes I was left with no vote and no really convincing leads. I pushed Ruguo a little bit, he wasn't very convincing. Mel then pointed out that Ruguo had been on 2 wagons (that I believed would have been mislynches), Vro's and Michi's I think. I largely disbelieved the whole Michi debacle, so regardless of the coaching, I voted for Ruguo.
Now that coaching was the saving grace for both Ruguo and TGN. But since Ruguo flipped red, it makes me see it differently. It was definitely a show, whether for both their benefits or not, I'm not sure.
On a second thought it doesn't really make sense to pair you with TGN if he flips scum considering you're voting him rn, tbh.
Speaking of vote, I'd like to put mine here for now:
Vote: Imaginative Kane
This is the person I feel is most likely to actually flip wolf based on what I'veread so far, I'll explain my case shortly.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 08, 2021, 11:12:10 PM
BSN I can't remember anything of at all, and that's partially my fault because I don't have enough energy to care about the slot.
I'm sorry if I'm sounding dense here, but I don't know why Nyght is a top Town for Minish too? If there is Town PR suspicions so that makes them Top town, making them top town like that without any explanation raises eyebrows for scum to pay attention to and just be counterproductive, especially when I can't remember much of Nyght? If I recall correctly... at one point in Day 1 votes were piling on Hapi (or maybe it was Michi? please bear with me here lol...) and Nyght voted for Vroendal (...?) who was the second top wagon, while not acknowledging the wagon with the most votes. They might have posted a reads list later? I need a second read to get my foot in the game to get everything straight.
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 11:12:39 PM
Can I get a quick vote count please? (in case somebody has been taking count)
(...)
@cozmikrae - Could you link me to the post that shows Ruguo linking himself to TGN?
Gerrick (1) - Red Mones
BraveSirRobin (3) - Sapphiron, Gerrick, Vroendal
Sapphiron (1) - Minish
TGN (3) - cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight
Imaginative Kane (1) - Legacy of Smiles
Why are you asking only Coz for the interactions?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 08, 2021, 11:12:54 PM
I skimmed the thread as fast as I can so I can go to bed:I would say mindmeld + slight town read on EME + your starting attitude to the game are all factors in my read on you.HumanDawn comes in and starts immediately solving which I think is a great look and I agree with most of their assessments (full reads + explanations are coming from me but it's taking longer than expected). Probably my top town read right now.
So from a mind meld basically?Town
HumanDawn
Why? I have barely touched the game.
Also, questioning your town reads is definitely a good look.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 08, 2021, 11:16:55 PM
Speaking of vote, I'd like to put mine here for now:
Vote: Imaginative Kane
This is the person I feel is most likely to actually flip wolf based on what I'veread so far, I'll explain my case shortly.
Imaginative Kane is another player in the "just there" list in the back of my brain who I can't remember anything about, so no objection from me here.
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 11:19:35 PM
Would also be nice if we managed to reduce it to 3 close wagons again by EoD, and I feel like TGN/Sapph are pretty great if anyone wanna join these wink wink
Post by: HumanDawn on February 08, 2021, 11:21:06 PM
Gerrick (1) - Red Mones
BraveSirRobin (3) - Sapphiron, Gerrick, Vroendal
Sapphiron (1) - Minish
TGN (3) - cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight
Imaginative Kane (1) - Legacy of Smiles
Why are you asking only Coz for the interactions?
Thank you ExLight!!!!
Seeing the vote count like that, makes me want to paint it to become more beautiful, like this:
VOTE: Sapphiron
In one of Coz's posts a few pages back, they made an analysis of Ruguo's ISO, and in one of the lines, they said Ruguo linked themselves to TGN. It was the most eye-raising statement of the ISO, which I felt important enough to bother asking which post it is.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 08, 2021, 11:23:36 PM
I'm actually leaning to scumlean with Kane, but I feel like he's not an optimal wagon today?If you wink nicely I might just listen.
Would also be nice if we managed to reduce it to 3 close wagons again by EoD, and I feel like TGN/Sapph are pretty great if anyone wanna join these wink wink
Vote: Sapphiron
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 11:25:23 PM
Post by: Wischland on February 08, 2021, 11:26:17 PM
I'm not scum. I've done my best to both jump on things I find odd as well as steer newer players in the right direction. I'm admitedly playing a bit differently this game- I want the newer players such as yourself to get the experience of hunting- so I'm doing a lot more prodding around than usual to stir up the dust.So I've been reading through all of Ruguo's posts again to try and get a better idea of things and this really jumped out at me in light of recent discussion, so I wanted to note my thoughts before they faded into brain mush. I was kinda hesitant in regards to Ruguo training/helping a scum TGN in the open to get town cred, because I thought Ruguo pressured TGN way more than I would expect if they were scumbuds, even to the point of starting a bandwagon. But the fact that Ruguo brings up their helping of new players here as part of their defense makes me think it may have been a much more coordinated effort to get town cred. That would also explain the sudden (in my opinion) drop of their TGN vote after TGN only kinda fulfilled their request for more logical arguments to instead vote Vro, possibly to head off any bandwagon that Mel could create by voting for Ruguo. Obviously the bandwagon gained traction very quickly and ended up on Ruguo anyway, but that doesn't seem to be what the scum expected/wanted at all.
I'd also ask you to consider: Would scum spend so much time trying to get TGN to prove his innocence? If I were scum, I could easily have left it with his wagon clearly in the lead and gone home happy- but I didn't, because I'm not scum, and he deserves better than that.
I don't know if I'll be able to check back in before EoD tonight, so for the above reasons, I'm going to:
Vote: TGN
If I do make it back, I'll try to poke through everything with Sapph to see if I think that has more weight, but at the moment TGN seems like a better bet to me.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 08, 2021, 11:26:58 PM
I would say mindmeld + slight town read on EME + your starting attitude to the game are all factors in my read on you.
Also, questioning your town reads is definitely a good look.
I know you said EME posted and you town read them a bit for it, but strangely enough, I don't remember seeing them post anything lol.
Even when I'm scum, I'm town read, and I think "this wasn't exactly part of the plan, but nice", which I also point out in-thread as scum too. I did it in the Season 7 champs game, first day too. Just saying to be careful to some tactics scum might pull so you won't potentially be fooled later down the line.
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 11:36:34 PM
well I said he had until 12:30
Vote: BSR
Post by: HumanDawn on February 08, 2021, 11:36:49 PM
I'm not scum. I've done my best to both jump on things I find odd as well as steer newer players in the right direction. I'm admitedly playing a bit differently this game- I want the newer players such as yourself to get the experience of hunting- so I'm doing a lot more prodding around than usual to stir up the dust.So I've been reading through all of Ruguo's posts again to try and get a better idea of things and this really jumped out at me in light of recent discussion, so I wanted to note my thoughts before they faded into brain mush. I was kinda hesitant in regards to Ruguo training/helping a scum TGN in the open to get town cred, because I thought Ruguo pressured TGN way more than I would expect if they were scumbuds, even to the point of starting a bandwagon. But the fact that Ruguo brings up their helping of new players here as part of their defense makes me think it may have been a much more coordinated effort to get town cred. That would also explain the sudden (in my opinion) drop of their TGN vote after TGN only kinda fulfilled their request for more logical arguments to instead vote Vro, possibly to head off any bandwagon that Mel could create by voting for Ruguo. Obviously the bandwagon gained traction very quickly and ended up on Ruguo anyway, but that doesn't seem to be what the scum expected/wanted at all.
I'd also ask you to consider: Would scum spend so much time trying to get TGN to prove his innocence? If I were scum, I could easily have left it with his wagon clearly in the lead and gone home happy- but I didn't, because I'm not scum, and he deserves better than that.
I don't know if I'll be able to check back in before EoD tonight, so for the above reasons, I'm going to:
Vote: TGN
If I do make it back, I'll try to poke through everything with Sapph to see if I think that has more weight, but at the moment TGN seems like a better bet to me.
... Ohh? I'm guessing that's the Ruguo's linking to TGN statement that Cozmikrae was talking about? Yeah, I will admit that knowing that Ruguo is scum, it does feel like he's hiding something about TGN, but that could be from just being scum with an agenda. Ruguo backing off TGN could be to take off heat for a potential TGN mislynch, or to keep easy pickings for mislynches later. Don't take my word for it though considering my comprehension of the game still, but yeah.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 08, 2021, 11:37:21 PM
is BSR even on anymore?
well I said he had until 12:30
Vote: BSR
Thoughts on Sapphiron?
Post by: Vroendal on February 08, 2021, 11:37:30 PM
I know Sapph is capable of more content, why he's been so silent this game is something I'm still trying to figure out.
TGN has been reading townie to me, I don't think his more high-effort posts feel like they've been coached privately, and I think it's more likely that Silv tried to sound more genuine in coaching a newer town player in what they should post to coast on the town cred, the main wagon had not yet shifted to them at that point.
I have not had a good history of reading TGN though, which gives me pause, but not enough for me to vote him quite yet.
In regards to Wisch's reasoning, as I said before I think Silv was trying to go for regular Silv helping a newer player to further disconnect from scum Silv.
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 11:39:52 PM
I can't be the only one seeing this right?
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 11:42:21 PM
and at this point if me or ExLight gets lynched then we will know who is town and who is scum, but I still don't like how much ExLight has been focusing on me and only voted for me after Cozimkrae, again, like the last time.I voted you because tying your wagon with BSR's was better than having yours and Sapphiron's with just 2 votes. I'm scumreading you both and townreading BSR, so of course I'd want to push one of these to stand a better chance.
I can't be the only one seeing this right?
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 11:42:48 PM
Sapphiron...is BSR even on anymore?
well I said he had until 12:30
Vote: BSR
Thoughts on Sapphiron?
compared to last game he has been quiet, too quiet.
I don't know what's going on with BSR, I voted him to pressure for a response, I even pinged him a bit later, he's been online recently, and still has not responded. Not happy about that.If you read The Wintreath Monthly you will see what I am capable of
I know Sapph is capable of more content, why he's been so silent this game is something I'm still trying to figure out.
TGN has been reading townie to me, I don't think his more high-effort posts feel like they've been coached privately, and I think it's more likely that Silv tried to sound more genuine in coaching a newer town player in what they should post to coast on the town cred, the main wagon had not yet shifted to them at that point.
I have not had a good history of reading TGN though, which gives me pause, but not enough for me to vote him quite yet.
In regards to Wisch's reasoning, as I said before I think Silv was trying to go for regular Silv helping a newer player to further disconnect from scum Silv.
I do a lengthy post when I get accused
fight or flight if you will
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 11:44:51 PM
Townreading BSR?and at this point if me or ExLight gets lynched then we will know who is town and who is scum, but I still don't like how much ExLight has been focusing on me and only voted for me after Cozimkrae, again, like the last time.I voted you because tying your wagon with BSR's was better than having yours and Sapphiron's with just 2 votes. I'm scumreading you both and townreading BSR, so of course I'd want to push one of these to stand a better chance.
I can't be the only one seeing this right?
idk if my memory is right but didn't people sus him due to inactivity in the beginning?
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 11:46:01 PM
I don't know what's going on with BSR, I voted him to pressure for a response, I even pinged him a bit later, he's been online recently, and still has not responded. Not happy about that.Do you think he'd just be silently watching him getting lynched and be the second strike in a row or do you think he'd at least put some effort defending himself if he was scum?
To me the answer is pretty clear, right now the BSR wagon is on an inactive that can't defend himself. While this might go both ways, this doesn't change the fact his silence is likely NAI, if not slightly townie.
Personally, I already pointed out to finding Silver throwing shade at him D1 very natural and likely for scum!Silver, and I'm not sure why he's being scumread since Silver flipped scum.
Post by: TGN on February 08, 2021, 11:47:35 PM
You need to get onto werewolf
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 11:48:10 PM
CAN I POST WITHOUT ANOTHER POSTInactivity isn't a scumtell for most players.Townreading BSR?and at this point if me or ExLight gets lynched then we will know who is town and who is scum, but I still don't like how much ExLight has been focusing on me and only voted for me after Cozimkrae, again, like the last time.I voted you because tying your wagon with BSR's was better than having yours and Sapphiron's with just 2 votes. I'm scumreading you both and townreading BSR, so of course I'd want to push one of these to stand a better chance.
I can't be the only one seeing this right?
idk if my memory is right but didn't people sus him due to inactivity in the beginning?
And from what I remember from the little he posted, he threw suspicion against Silver, which was vehemently dismissed by the latter.
Post by: ExLight on February 08, 2021, 11:53:03 PM
If you're Town, make a final readlist and give some opinions on players.
Post by: Doc on February 08, 2021, 11:54:40 PM
For example, Moot is usually much more active, but as he noted on Discord earlier today, he has 20 pages of posts to catch up on if he wants to make an informed vote today.
Frankly, I think a lot of people's meta reads as far as activity-inactivity and relative skill go are on the basis of the 'old' meta, before the Portal game really cemented the shift of our WW games towards being dramatically more active.
Honestly, if y'all want the lurkier or more inactive types to talk, maybe y'all who've made 9 posts in the time since I started writing this 15 minutes ago could walk back the activity a little, because it's fuckin intimidating to come home from work or class or just wake up in the morning and see 100 new posts.
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 12:02:58 AM
My statement of not being happy was not in terms of my thoughts on his alignment, but rather in terms of if he is a townie he's not doing himself or the other townies any favors.I don't know what's going on with BSR, I voted him to pressure for a response, I even pinged him a bit later, he's been online recently, and still has not responded. Not happy about that.Do you think he'd just be silently watching him getting lynched and be the second strike in a row or do you think he'd at least put some effort defending himself if he was scum?
To me the answer is pretty clear, right now the BSR wagon is on an inactive that can't defend himself. While this might go both ways, this doesn't change the fact his silence is likely NAI, if not slightly townie.
Personally, I already pointed out to finding Silver throwing shade at him D1 very natural and likely for scum!Silver, and I'm not sure why he's being scumread since Silver flipped scum.
I do agree in his inactivity being an odd choice as a wolf, and I think I will switch to another wagon, especially since TGN has now voted him.
I feel like all my brain-power was just stripped away since D2 ended but that may be due to irl reasons. I don't trust my own town reads on TGN, but I still feel uncomfortable voting him. My lack of clear insights is partly influenced by my lack of surety of who I should trust.
Change Vote - Sapphiron
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 12:20:29 AM
This is just a Kreaal 2.0. I'm not gonna keep wasting my breath.can I have a list of players?
If you're Town, make a final readlist and give some opinions on players.
there are WAY to many for my brain to handle (bad short term)
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 12:30:23 AM
This is just a Kreaal 2.0. I'm not gonna keep wasting my breath.can I have a list of players?
If you're Town, make a final readlist and give some opinions on players.
there are WAY to many for my brain to handle (bad short term)
Players:from the first post1. Ruguo
2. Red Mones
3. Vroendal
4. Gerrick5. Adorable Oracle Hapi
6. Anubhav Ghosh
7. Sapphiron
8. Wischland
9. Minish
10. Michi
11. Imaginative Kane
12. BraveSirRobin
13. TGN
14. Wintermoot
15. NyghtOwl
16.Melehan
17. Doc
18. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
19. Alexander Valentine / ExLight
20. cozmikrae
21. Eastern New England / HumanDawn
just to make clear Kreaal isn't in this one, it was a player in a game on ZD that was kinda acting like you so I'm just monologuing out loud
Honestly, if y'all want the lurkier or more inactive types to talk, maybe y'all who've made 9 posts in the time since I started writing this 15 minutes ago could walk back the activity a little, because it's fuckin intimidating to come home from work or class or just wake up in the morning and see 100 new posts....sorry umu
Post by: cozmikrae on February 09, 2021, 12:33:24 AM
Can I get a quick vote count please? (in case somebody has been taking count)
TGN looks like he is about to be lynched - I don't feel confident pushing this but admittedly I don't have as much of a grasp of the game as other players so my opinion may be moot in who we should actually lynch. I don't buy that the whole thing was distancing. From my experience, how Ruguo coached TGN seems familiar of how I've seen scum coach town in how they act overly friendly. Ruguo would have had more success in trying to be combative to TGN to distance rather than give advice. Maybe you can argue that it's WIFOM and that's what they wanted me to think, but it's not the impression I'm getting at least.
@cozmikrae - Could you link me to the post that shows Ruguo linking himself to TGN?
The posts in question:
Ruguo accidentally linking himself to TGN
*insert generic complaint about reading the thread here*
Aww, Min doesn't like me anymore. That's sad. In my defense though, when have I ever scumhunted? I think I did one misguided attempt at attacking last game and a lot of waffling between the wifom.
Hey TGN, It's good to bring up past game in our defense, but do be careful that defending yourself or omgus voting isn't the only actions you contribute. I think the best way for you to absolve yourself would be to tell us how you're feeling about certain players, especially those of interest today. That currently seems to include You, BSR, Vro, Somewhat Michi, and I guess also me. Hooray, I'm interesting! I think Red could also be considered interesting if you wanna talk about that too.
I'd like to take a closer look at Sapph- something seems a bit off there. Now I could be misremembering, but I've come to expect longer and more of a...frustrated yet cheerful headvoice from him. I'm getting more of a blase feeling, and I don't remember if that's good or bad. So I guess I'll go ISO and see if anything else seems of at some point.My post was neither defensive or in response to 'suspicion thrown' my way. Ruguo just said I expanded a lot on a little for no good reason, and I legitimately wonder why people feel that way because it came up after D1 last game as well. Expanding a lot on a little is what everyone does on D1, so why is it odd that I do it?
That's fair, I wasn't sussing you, just trying to connect to your shoes. You just have a tendency to pick out somewhat strange things compared to others, Moot. That's not bad.
That's about what I've got, yup.
EBWOP: It would appear I forgot a Y in my post and have somehow ended up linking myself to TGN.Hey TGN, It's good to bring up past game in your defense,
It's supposed to be like that. Sorry.
Just a potential Freudian slip. If you want to read it in context, this is about page 26. What was funny was how quickly he came back to fix it. I literally would never have noticed otherwise.
Post by: Doc on February 09, 2021, 12:35:11 AM
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
BSR - 3 (Sapphiron, Gerrick, TGN)
Sapphiron - 4 (Minish, Humandawn, Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal)
TGN - 4 (cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland)
No votes yet from (and @ing as a reminder to do so since there's only a couple hours left in this phase IIRC? or is there another day...?):
@Anubhav Ghosh, @BraveSirRobin, @Imaginative Kane, @Michi, @Wintermoot, @NyghtOwl.
IMO TGN is a better lynch than Sapph, because that would give a pretty clear indication of Vro's alignment - and, I suppose, serve double duty as a very late policy elimination - but either is good from a wagonomics angle.
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 12:42:59 AM
Quick and dirty votecount update, bolded the leading wagon(s) for ease of reference:what do you think of TGN not voting Sapphiron to save himself
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
BSR - 3 (Sapphiron, Gerrick, TGN)
Sapphiron - 4 (Minish, Humandawn, Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal)
TGN - 4 (cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland)
No votes yet from (and @ing as a reminder to do so since there's only a couple hours left in this phase IIRC? or is there another day...?):
@Anubhav Ghosh, @BraveSirRobin, @Imaginative Kane, @Michi, @Wintermoot, @NyghtOwl.
IMO TGN is a better lynch than Sapph, because that would give a pretty clear indication of Vro's alignment - and, I suppose, serve double duty as a very late policy elimination - but either is good from a wagonomics angle.
Post by: Sapphiron on February 09, 2021, 12:46:11 AM
Vote: TGN
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 12:53:32 AM
Vroendal- Has good defense
Gerrick- Like Mones, just less active
Anubhav Ghosh- I can't read, I just can't
Sapphiron- might be inactive but not as active as last game... kinda sus
Wischland- town lean... gut fealing
Minish- I forgot who is who... one is helpful
Michi- I forgot who is who... and one I can't read
Imaginative Kane- Null
BraveSirRobin- Inactive...
Wintermoot- town lean
NyghtOwl- null
Doc- got me to stop sh*t posting, town core
Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles- very helpful to us, just makes too many posts in a row
Alexander Valentine / ExLight- pushing on me only... scum lean
cozmikrae- very nice and helpful, but something tells me they have a connection to ExLight, Null
Eastern New England / HumanDawn- how many posts made? null
Quick and dirty votecount update, bolded the leading wagon(s) for ease of reference:Untove
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
BSR - 3 (Sapphiron, Gerrick, TGN)
Sapphiron - 4 (Minish, Humandawn, Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal)
TGN - 4 (cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland)
Vote: Sapphiron
part is saving me
part is my sus of him (don't take out of context)
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 12:54:19 AM
Quick and dirty votecount update, bolded the leading wagon(s) for ease of reference:what do you think of TGN not voting Sapphiron to save himself
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
BSR - 3 (Sapphiron, Gerrick, TGN)
Sapphiron - 4 (Minish, Humandawn, Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal)
TGN - 4 (cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland)
No votes yet from (and @ing as a reminder to do so since there's only a couple hours left in this phase IIRC? or is there another day...?):
@Anubhav Ghosh, @BraveSirRobin, @Imaginative Kane, @Michi, @Wintermoot, @NyghtOwl.
IMO TGN is a better lynch than Sapph, because that would give a pretty clear indication of Vro's alignment - and, I suppose, serve double duty as a very late policy elimination - but either is good from a wagonomics angle.
I didn't know it was that close until I saw the score
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 12:57:41 AM
lol we'll seeQuick and dirty votecount update, bolded the leading wagon(s) for ease of reference:what do you think of TGN not voting Sapphiron to save himself
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
BSR - 3 (Sapphiron, Gerrick, TGN)
Sapphiron - 4 (Minish, Humandawn, Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal)
TGN - 4 (cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland)
No votes yet from (and @ing as a reminder to do so since there's only a couple hours left in this phase IIRC? or is there another day...?):
@Anubhav Ghosh, @BraveSirRobin, @Imaginative Kane, @Michi, @Wintermoot, @NyghtOwl.
IMO TGN is a better lynch than Sapph, because that would give a pretty clear indication of Vro's alignment - and, I suppose, serve double duty as a very late policy elimination - but either is good from a wagonomics angle.
I didn't know it was that close until I saw the score
you were townreading Sapph on D2, why did he drop into "kinda sus"?
Post by: Doc on February 09, 2021, 12:58:40 AM
Unfortunately we can't draw any conclusions anymore, since now that Sapph voted for him, either 1) he doesn't, dies, and we find out for sure, or 2) he does and it doesn't look much like anything anymore, since whatever was keeping him and Vro from voting each other is obviously not in play here.
while-you-were-typing-3-new-replies-have-been-posted-induced 'edit':
yeah, see, option 2
Updated votecount:
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
BSR - 1 (Gerrick)
Sapphiron - 5 (Minish, Humandawn, Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal, TGN)
TGN - 5 (cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland, Sapphiron)
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 12:58:47 AM
BUT MY TEXT DIDN'T APPER
I meant to say
I didn't know the vote was that close until I saw
but we are still tied...
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 12:59:42 AM
I cry...lol we'll seeQuick and dirty votecount update, bolded the leading wagon(s) for ease of reference:what do you think of TGN not voting Sapphiron to save himself
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
BSR - 3 (Sapphiron, Gerrick, TGN)
Sapphiron - 4 (Minish, Humandawn, Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal)
TGN - 4 (cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland)
No votes yet from (and @ing as a reminder to do so since there's only a couple hours left in this phase IIRC? or is there another day...?):
@Anubhav Ghosh, @BraveSirRobin, @Imaginative Kane, @Michi, @Wintermoot, @NyghtOwl.
IMO TGN is a better lynch than Sapph, because that would give a pretty clear indication of Vro's alignment - and, I suppose, serve double duty as a very late policy elimination - but either is good from a wagonomics angle.
I didn't know it was that close until I saw the score
you were townreading Sapph on D2, why did he drop into "kinda sus"?
I can't go 0.5 microseconds without a post
Not as many post as last game
Post by: cozmikrae on February 09, 2021, 01:12:28 AM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 09, 2021, 01:13:55 AM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 09, 2021, 01:14:38 AM
Sorry for the EBWODP
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 09, 2021, 01:26:26 AM
I would not necessarily be that annoyed this time if I was lynched though I definitely would not recommend doing it. @Legacy of Smiles and @ExlLght could you explain why I am sus? I think I understand that some of the cause is just from my regular playstyle (voting away from the wagons and holding back information that I lack), or is that wrong?
Post by: Sapphiron on February 09, 2021, 01:33:22 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 01:35:01 AM
I would not necessarily be that annoyed this time if I was lynched though I definitely would not recommend doing it. @Legacy of Smiles and @ExlLght could you explain why I am sus? I think I understand that some of the cause is just from my regular playstyle (voting away from the wagons and holding back information that I lack), or is that wrong?I'm not really sure, I think there were a few posts of yours that pinged me a bit.
From the top of my head I remember you burning your No Lynch really early on, that vote defending yourself seemed a bit outta nowhere and hyperdefensive, and you being on the fence about Silver.
You also seem to only have voted for BSR throughout the whole game despite his wagon never being viable, which gives limited information for us. A bit funny you didn't seem to pressure them this phase despite this being the closest he got of being lynched tho.
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 01:35:42 AM
Uh Kane I don’t think anybody voted for you yet? Also, 5.5 hours if I calculated correctlycowboyless turtle smiley boy voted him but changed vote right after once I asked for it to be placed in one of the top wagons
Post by: Wintermoot on February 09, 2021, 01:40:26 AM
Vote: Sapphiron
I don't find the quantity of posts from him suspicious, but I do find the quality to be. Sapphiron is usually very insightful in Werewolf, but I haven't felt much insight from him this game. He tends to either vote early giving brief reasons or jumps on bandwagons...he was the 4th vote that stuck on Ruguo last day if my records are correct, and he just now voted TGN (in fairness, to defend himself most likely). But even then his reasoning "I am more useful to Town alive than dead," is about as generic as you can get.
I am concerned that few seem to be able to get confident reads of TGN this far into the game, but to vote for him I would have to believe that TGN is a wolf for a second game in a row and that he and Ruguo were both engaged in an elaborate show last turn just in case one turned out to be the wolf. Seeing there there was no votes for Ruguo at the time and it seemed very unlikely that they would be exposed at the time, I find that to be unlikely. It's not impossible for TGN to be a wolf, but I don't think it's likely either.
Some thoughts about putting on shows though. Ruguo's show with TGN reminded me of a suspicion I'd raised earlier with Vro over something similar:
It also reminded me of how Doc, who is voting for TGN and has said that he's a better kill than Sapph, said that in a situation where a wolf is publicly helping someone, it should be inferred that one of them isn't a wolf.I mean, just saying "do what you will" definitely won't do you any favors. :/ Come on Michi I'm really trying to give you a chance here. I miraculously survived the entirety of last game even though I was wrong on many points and looked incredibly suspicious beyond that, and I survived because I never completely gave up defending myself, just laying down and saying "lynch me" goes beyond just being suspicious to just being anti-town.This came off as very odd to me. You spent practically all of D1 pushing for Michi, then just as he's going to be killed off you make a big show of graciously giving him a chance, unvote him, vote for him again, and then at literally the last minute while Lau's counting the votes unvote him again which ties him and Hapi up at the end to start with. You didn't seem to have much self-doubt before the end of the round, so why the cold feet right at the end? Was it even cold feet, or a show for the rest of us to make you look like an uncertain townie and to distance yourself from pushing the Michi bandwagon to start with?
If we were scumbuds, I wouldn't be advising him on proper conduct out in the open, I'd do it in PMs like I did the last time. At the very least, you can infer one of us isn't scum. Which I'll elaborate on later in the post (which I wrote before this, but you posted between when I started writing this and when I finished the first pass only to get told of 2 new replies, *sigh*).If in that situation we're supposed to infer that one isn't a wolf, shouldn't that also hold true with Ruguo/TGN?
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 09, 2021, 02:10:02 AM
I was not actually intending to No Lynch and I did not officially use it since I changed my vote to BSR. My reason for the early defensive posts is just to start preparing a defense early since I usually seem to be suspicious which often results in some wagon danger.I would not necessarily be that annoyed this time if I was lynched though I definitely would not recommend doing it. @Legacy of Smiles and @ExlLght could you explain why I am sus? I think I understand that some of the cause is just from my regular playstyle (voting away from the wagons and holding back information that I lack), or is that wrong?I'm not really sure, I think there were a few posts of yours that pinged me a bit.
From the top of my head I remember you burning your No Lynch really early on, that vote defending yourself seemed a bit outta nowhere and hyperdefensive, and you being on the fence about Silver.
You also seem to only have voted for BSR throughout the whole game despite his wagon never being viable, which gives limited information for us. A bit funny you didn't seem to pressure them this phase despite this being the closest he got of being lynched tho.
That is true that I only voted for BSR, my reasoning for that was because I did not see agree with the major wagons that were up on those days (I found out how wrong that belief was last day phase but was correct on the first day phase). The only reason I ever join those wagons is because I fully agree or mostly agree and find them suspicious. Otherwise, I vote for someone else who I find suspicious despite it not making a difference. That is just how I vote normally, sorry if that makes you suspicious of me. The reason I have not pressured them in this day phase is because I have not been online for most of this day phase. Yesterday, I simply did not open up this website or log in because I was starting on some assignments and watching some shows. The one post I did make (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156651#msg156651), I think explains well enough why I did not vote at that point in time.
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 09, 2021, 02:27:57 AM
If I have to vote between the two:I have noticed a little of that with Sapphiron's posts in this game but at the time I did not think that was necessarily suspicious as opposed to just being busy like with the last game. That trend continuing in a second game though seems less likely.
Vote: Sapphiron
I don't find the quantity of posts from him suspicious, but I do find the quality to be. Sapphiron is usually very insightful in Werewolf, but I haven't felt much insight from him this game. He tends to either vote early giving brief reasons or jumps on bandwagons...he was the 4th vote that stuck on Ruguo last day if my records are correct, and he just now voted TGN (in fairness, to defend himself most likely). But even then his reasoning "I am more useful to Town alive than dead," is about as generic as you can get.
I am concerned that few seem to be able to get confident reads of TGN this far into the game, but to vote for him I would have to believe that TGN is a wolf for a second game in a row and that he and Ruguo were both engaged in an elaborate show last turn just in case one turned out to be the wolf. Seeing there there was no votes for Ruguo at the time and it seemed very unlikely that they would be exposed at the time, I find that to be unlikely. It's not impossible for TGN to be a wolf, but I don't think it's likely either.
Some thoughts about putting on shows though. Ruguo's show with TGN reminded me of a suspicion I'd raised earlier with Vro over something similar:
While I do not like it considering they were just advising me in their last post, I think I have a new suspicious target for the moment. It is unlikely I will have the time to change my vote (in case Sapphiron provides a good defense) if there is about 5 hours left in the day phase since I will have had one of my more stressful classes a few hours before (and I tend to focus on that class until I go to bed on the same day (or more often that morning). Knowing some of the other people on the wagon have been labelled suspicious, I am worried about being on this wagon but it seems more likely than my suspicions of BSR, and Gerrick, and Moot (since those are all gut feelings extending from worries based off of other games as opposed to suspicions I can back up with posts (at least for now)).
Vote Sapphiron
I can understand the suspicions on TGN but I have a strong gut feeling that they are not a Titan. Even after reading the last game, actually they remind me of a few of my posts from my early non scum games.
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 02:35:09 AM
Speaking of vote, I'd like to put mine here for now:I think it is both relevant and necessary for you to state your case for this today for the sake of hearing all perspectives, and whether it has changed based on Kane's latest posts or not.
Vote: Imaginative Kane
This is the person I feel is most likely to actually flip wolf based on what I'veread so far, I'll explain my case shortly.
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 02:42:07 AM
I am more useful to Town alive than dead,Are you able to expound upon this in any way? That statement alone isn't going to make anyone unvote you. If you're waiting for a better reason/opportunity, I think now is the only time you should present your defense. It sounds like you're going to plan to present a defense at the very last second and leave us a very narrow margin of time to change our minds to make us panic so we do switch off of you, which I do not appreciate.
Vote: TGN
Like if you're softing a power role, soft harder, right now, it's do-or-die for you. You have presented no believable or realistic reason why we shouldn't lynch you. Even a stronger case against TGN from you personally is something at least.
Post by: Sapphiron on February 09, 2021, 02:47:37 AM
Also, I don't believe it's that implausible for a person to be given the scum role twice in a role. You guys make it sound like Doc wasn't consecutively Wolf before.
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 09, 2021, 02:56:11 AM
Not only to semi protect Sapph, who appears to be doing some pretty good hinting here, but also because Vro wants to defend TGN, which makes me suspicious, because Ruguo was scum and because Hapi was innocent. Do we not remember that Ruguo was trying to tie Hapi and myself and Sapph together, and then Hapi was flipped and Ruguo flipped scum? That should be obvious enough. Maybe I'm relying too much on Valeria being similar here, but I definitely don't think that we should vote off Sapph right now, especially if the power role is in play as a possibility
Also as far as defending myself from a mention which is now like ages ago, Vro and Ruguo were anti me the whole game basically, which makes me really think that they're scum and working together, which I think is an appropriate conclusion from my situation. *shrug*
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 03:04:17 AM
Unfortunately, you either trust me or you don't. I am not going to commit the same sin as I have done last game, allowing over-investment in the game to result in roleclaiming and rule breach. That will have to do to explain for my detached way of playing this round. You guys will find out whether you are right or wrong in lynching me soon enough.Hmm, that feels like more of a believable motivation.
Also, I don't believe it's that implausible for a person to be given the scum role twice in a role. You guys make it sound like Doc wasn't consecutively Wolf before.
However, I should also note that I think you're veering too far in the direction of the other extreme. If you do end up being lynched as a power role, I would consider the lack of a quality (or really any kind of) defense to be throwing in a way as well. If I assume you have thought about this already, I am left to suppose that you aren't a power role, or have a mindset of throwing on the other extreme to atone for throwing on the first extreme, which doesn't even make sense and I would not expect that from you.
I also really dislike that BSR is really latching onto the idea of you being a power role just from my slight musing, that's ringing alarm bells.
Can the option of lynching BSR still be on the table @ExLight? Just wondering.
Post by: Sapphiron on February 09, 2021, 03:09:32 AM
D1: Absolutely refused to partake in meta bandwagons, resulting in death of Hapi, which flipped green
D2: Tipped the momentum creating a tie against Vro bandwagon, instead supporting Melehan and lynching Ruguo, which flipped red
Post by: cozmikrae on February 09, 2021, 03:10:09 AM
I'm going to Vote: TGN
Not only to semi protect Sapph, who appears to be doing some pretty good hinting here, but also because Vro wants to defend TGN, which makes me suspicious, because Ruguo was scum and because Hapi was innocent. Do we not remember that Ruguo was trying to tie Hapi and myself and Sapph together, and then Hapi was flipped and Ruguo flipped scum? That should be obvious enough. Maybe I'm relying too much on Valeria being similar here, but I definitely don't think that we should vote off Sapph right now, especially if the power role is in play as a possibility
Also as far as defending myself from a mention which is now like ages ago, Vro and Ruguo were anti me the whole game basically, which makes me really think that they're scum and working together, which I think is an appropriate conclusion from my situation. *shrug*
I like this point of Vro and Ruguo being against you all game. Which is interesting, considering you've posted like what? 5 times all game? I've heard your name from various people more than I've actually seen you post. I've never played with you before, but your nearly complete silence coupled with all the mentions against you is definitely interesting to me.
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 03:14:53 AM
What kind of quality defence are you expecting from me? Yes, I do admit my posts have been infrequent and my analysis not as substantial as usual. However, if you focus on my actions,Beyond just saving you, which is the better lynch from your perspective? BSR, or TGN?
D1: Absolutely refused to partake in meta bandwagons, resulting in death of Hapi, which flipped green
D2: Tipped the momentum creating a tie against Vro bandwagon, instead supporting Melehan and lynching Ruguo, which flipped red
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 09, 2021, 03:27:34 AM
Vro's voting and unvoting still remains questionable to me , after all , if he turns out as a scum , he will have the best knowledge about lynch consequences . Either way , I have strong gut feelings , that Vro will be lynched in all certainty . Ig everyone would be happy to remove one suspect of the list of scum than keep one hoping him to be innocent . Sorry Vro if this hurts u , but u made a bad name for urself. I hope u understand whatever the play is here , u have drawn far too much suspicion
this post raises !!! in my head
“ye bro sorry if you’re good man you brought it on yourself not because our thinking could be wrong”
This was a decoy sort of post i would say . What i was looking for was retaliation , which unfortunately took place before this post as many cited Vro's chance of being a townie and no one . I looked out for people who did not retaliate , because even after the best defenses and clarifications i stubbornly stood on my words , and said things as if it was fixed that Vro will be lynched by the town . The post did not go very well , as i did not receive counters until now , and here I am justifying why i did it . It was just a measure to clear out some people out of suspicion momentarily
Looking for retaliation makes sense. This post makes me feel a lot better about you. Your late vote on Ruguo at the end pings me, but... ehh?
I had to get my options reduced , I was pretty much sure that Vro was townie by then . However my doubts over the rest cleared up when Ruguo went in hot against Vro at the last moment , which looked like a vain push to me to save himself from getting lynched . And so the late voting . I was probably the 3rd/4th person voting for ruguo . Also voting and unvoting has got some big chaos running already , its better to vote once even if its late😅
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 03:34:57 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 03:45:59 AM
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
BSR - 2 (Gerrick, Nyght)
Sapphiron - 7 (Minish, Humandawn, Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal, TGN, Wintermoot, Imaginative Kane)
TGN - 6 (cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland, Sapphiron, BSR)
Yet to vote: Anubhav, Michi
incoherant screaming
Town reads -
Red, Nyght, HD, cozmik, Gerrick, Doc, Michi, Wisch
Nulls -
Minish, Legacy, Exlight, Sapph, TGN, Wintermoot, Anubhav
Scum reads -
BSR
If I choose to trust Minish, Anubhav, Sapph, and Legacy through gut reads I can narrow down further. Legacy is sussing Kane, for what I don't know yet. If I then assume there is at least 1 wolf up in a wagon right now, the wolves are among BSR, TGN, Wintermoot, ExLight and Kane. If BSR is viable, I want to go for it.
Change Vote - BSR
I feel strongly about this.
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 04:11:46 AM
Ruguo - 9 (Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Sapphiron, Minish, Michi, Melehan, Cozmikrae)
Vroendal - 5 (Ruguo, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Doc)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Eastern New England - 1 (Self)
Current D3 votecount -
Updated vote count
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
BSR - 3 (Gerrick, Nyght, Vroendal)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Humandawn, Legacy of Smiles, TGN, Wintermoot, Imaginative Kane)
TGN - 6 (cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland, Sapphiron, BSR)
Noteable things to me -
Kane is no longer going after BSR but is instead going after Sapph when BSR is a wagon, Wintermoot is on an opposing wagon from me again, BraveSirRobin is on an opposing wagon from me again, TGN has just been chaos, and ExLight we need more info on.
From these observations alone, I think scum are likely to be among the players I just mentioned. I may not be right, but it's interesting that there are certain players who have opposing votes as me both yesterday and today when I was on a wagon against a Titan, just saying.
Post by: Wischland on February 09, 2021, 04:26:36 AM
I suppose both TGN and Sapph would be good info lynches either way, so maybe leaving it up to chance is for the best. Feel free to drop advice for me though.
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 04:29:34 AM
Hmm. Not really a fan of who I'm in a wagon with. Plus Vro and other made some convincing arguments about how I may have misinterpreted the Ruguo/TGN mentoring thing, so I don't feel nearly as confident voting for TGN as before. But if I leave the TGN wagon then Sapph will very likely be lynched and I'm not super comfortable with that either. And time is running out. How did I get to be in this position. :-\Yeah, at this point I'm not really buying that Sapph is a Titan. Stay on TGN, if no active support appears, I'll lynch him to save Sapph and for info and accept that Doc will attack me tomorrow should I survive.
I suppose both TGN and Sapph would be good info lynches either way, so maybe leaving it up to chance is for the best. Feel free to drop advice for me though.
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 04:42:42 AM
okHmm. Not really a fan of who I'm in a wagon with. Plus Vro and other made some convincing arguments about how I may have misinterpreted the Ruguo/TGN mentoring thing, so I don't feel nearly as confident voting for TGN as before. But if I leave the TGN wagon then Sapph will very likely be lynched and I'm not super comfortable with that either. And time is running out. How did I get to be in this position. :-\Yeah, at this point I'm not really buying that Sapph is a Titan. Stay on TGN, if no active support appears, I'll lynch him to save Sapph and for info and accept that Doc will attack me tomorrow should I survive.
I suppose both TGN and Sapph would be good info lynches either way, so maybe leaving it up to chance is for the best. Feel free to drop advice for me though.
but after that, then what
if I get lynched what will be your plan
will you be a hero if I am a wolf, or will you get sussed out if I'm not?
and if I am reading it right you will inspect my post as if there was a secret message in it?
if not I'm sorry
if so: .. / .... .. --. .... .-.. -.-- / -.. --- ..- -... - / - .... .- - .-.-.-
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 04:43:40 AM
why are you throwing the responsibility of your vote on me lol, you vote whoever you want
Can the option of lynching BSR still be on the table @ExLight? Just wondering.
again, I’m townreading him so I’d prefer a TGN ot Sapph lynch
also I see what you’re doing there Sapph and I don’t know if I like it
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 04:44:12 AM
it’s just me quoting Vro in the post above
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 04:46:33 AM
okWell, I don't think my plan will change a whole lot either way you flip. I will defend myself from accusations and make pushes against those players I have outlined and hope for the best, ez. I don't mind if I get sussed, but I suppose being sussed will depend on how you flip, sure.
but after that, then what
if I get lynched what will be your plan
will you be a hero if I am a wolf, or will you get sussed out if I'm not?
and if I am reading it right you will inspect my post as if there was a secret message in it?
if not I'm sorry
if so: .. / .... .. --. .... .-.. -.-- / -.. --- ..- -... - / - .... .- - .-.-.-
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 04:50:09 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 04:54:53 AM
As to ExLight, I'm not throwing responsibility I'm asking for your opinion of the situation and if you would possibly switch. It no longer seems to be viable anyway, but at the time I was wondering. Sapph is annoying <3 and I think I see what he's doing too but also arghhhh.That’s fair but I don’t intend on switching. I’ll stick to my scumreads unless someone really convinces me on BSR.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 09, 2021, 04:56:59 AM
As for me I feel TGN is just desperate , his lack of reasoning might be the lack of posts he has , which is why he can't fall back and quote something to prove his innocence , and with time running out , he is making impulsive comments . Again the scumchat stuff is quite a good point and the fact Ruguo made his place in TGN's top town reads also arouses suspicion.
However weighing both the views i believe TGN might be on the good side .
Hence , Vote:Sapphiron
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 04:58:12 AM
Change Vote - TGN
I've laid out my suspicions. Excluding TGN, I'm thinking BSR, Kane, Moot, ExLight contain at the very least 2 scum.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 09, 2021, 05:01:22 AM
But the truth,
Wrote a lot and did analysis type of people faced our wrath , like Ruguo(he turned scum though) and Vro . On the other hand we see decent and informative reads post from Gerrick , some from Nyght and Kane . And then they go silent , and when we do a read , they end up as top townies . I guess we need to keep an eye even at them
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 05:03:04 AM
Darn it, I really hope I'm making the right calls.I’m clearly town and I’ve been trying my best:tm:, tyvm ùmú
Change Vote - TGN
I've laid out my suspicions. Excluding TGN, I'm thinking BSR, Kane, Moot, ExLight contain at the very least 2 scum.
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 05:05:26 AM
Anubhav unvote right now!!!
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 05:09:14 AM
OH WAIT NO
Anubhav unvote right now!!!
why?
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 05:11:18 AM
I wouldn't say I'm desperateWhether I town read you or not, at this point I think your lynch will give better info than Sapph's. If you're town I apologize, but sometimes it do be like that. Either way we all can take from this experience and learn, and in the end that's good.
why?
Post by: Sapphiron on February 09, 2021, 05:12:41 AM
Life’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
Post by: Doc on February 09, 2021, 05:14:24 AM
Stay on TGN, if no active support appears, I'll lynch him to save Sapph and for info and accept that Doc will attack me tomorrow should I survive.You...realize that if TGN flips townie, that because I've made crystal clear that I consider the two of you linked at this point that I would accordingly consider you townie?
So the only reason you'd need to 'accept' that I'd attack you if the TGN lynch goes off is if you're both scum?
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 05:16:39 AM
you linked usStay on TGN, if no active support appears, I'll lynch him to save Sapph and for info and accept that Doc will attack me tomorrow should I survive.You...realize that if TGN flips townie, that because I've made crystal clear that I consider the two of you linked at this point that I would accordingly consider you townie?
So the only reason you'd need to 'accept' that I'd attack you if the TGN lynch goes off is if you're both scum?
can you see me?
if so hi, if I am lynched I have a post automatically go out
how much time left in D3
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 05:16:56 AM
why ask for an unvote rather than asking for him to swap his vote into TGN thoughI wouldn't say I'm desperateWhether I town read you or not, at this point I think your lynch will give better info than Sapph's. If you're town I apologize, but sometimes it do be like that. Either way we all can take from this experience and learn, and in the end that's good.
why?
I feel like you might be going the direction Sapph wants us to if it's for the reason I'm thinking
just be aware that he'd also do that if he was scum
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 05:20:43 AM
Hey, I don't know what results this day will bring. I also am not sure if I believe that you wouldn't say something to the effect of that I switched to lynch town TGN at the last minute for town cred.Stay on TGN, if no active support appears, I'll lynch him to save Sapph and for info and accept that Doc will attack me tomorrow should I survive.You...realize that if TGN flips townie, that because I've made crystal clear that I consider the two of you linked at this point that I would accordingly consider you townie?
So the only reason you'd need to 'accept' that I'd attack you if the TGN lynch goes off is if you're both scum?
Because I won't ask someone to lynch their town read, I think they should come to that decision for themselves.why ask for an unvote rather than asking for him to swap his vote into TGN thoughI wouldn't say I'm desperateWhether I town read you or not, at this point I think your lynch will give better info than Sapph's. If you're town I apologize, but sometimes it do be like that. Either way we all can take from this experience and learn, and in the end that's good.
why?
I feel like you might be going the direction Sapph wants us to if it's for the reason I'm thinking
just be aware that he'd also do that if he was scum
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 09, 2021, 05:38:37 AM
LOL its been interesting to me as well. Perhaps they think I'm a better Laurentus Lite than I am in reality hahaha. I mean, either way, it')) backfire on them eventually so I dont know what they're doing? There are way too many townies for that not to occur...I'm going to Vote: TGN
Not only to semi protect Sapph, who appears to be doing some pretty good hinting here, but also because Vro wants to defend TGN, which makes me suspicious, because Ruguo was scum and because Hapi was innocent. Do we not remember that Ruguo was trying to tie Hapi and myself and Sapph together, and then Hapi was flipped and Ruguo flipped scum? That should be obvious enough. Maybe I'm relying too much on Valeria being similar here, but I definitely don't think that we should vote off Sapph right now, especially if the power role is in play as a possibility
Also as far as defending myself from a mention which is now like ages ago, Vro and Ruguo were anti me the whole game basically, which makes me really think that they're scum and working together, which I think is an appropriate conclusion from my situation. *shrug*
I like this point of Vro and Ruguo being against you all game. Which is interesting, considering you've posted like what? 5 times all game? I've heard your name from various people more than I've actually seen you post. I've never played with you before, but your nearly complete silence coupled with all the mentions against you is definitely interesting to me.
Ideally we'd be voting Vro and not saving Sapph by lynching TGN, but I definitely don't like the last minute moves from people who are very vocal. That generally screams wolves dominating the narrative to me, which tends to make me more readily scum lean people who are dominating the conversation and making sweeping accusations against widely varying sets of players. Hilariously, my suspect list remains basically the same set of people it was after Hapi was killed, and is only more confidently Vro because he's really attacking me for... Not being active enough?
Activity, apart from the rare exception, is generally the wolves, and seeing that Ruguo flipped red, he's probably smart enough to have created a coordinated attack at the beginning with each wolf being a separate big personality, which is generally a good strategy. That's generally what I'd do if I were a wolf, and then painting anyone who objects to my questioning as suspicious or irrelevant as paranoid and wolfish. Which works quite well quite often
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 09, 2021, 05:40:27 AM
Unvote
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 09, 2021, 05:42:03 AM
OH WAIT NO
Anubhav unvote right now!!!
Do u ask me to skip voting procedure today ? If not then do u want me to send my vote to the other wagon , and an updated voting table would be of help
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 05:42:30 AM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 09, 2021, 05:44:42 AM
how much time is left until the day ends
It should have had ended by now , but we are at the mercy of Lau , and his sleep cycle potentially . All hail Lau!
Post by: Sapphiron on February 09, 2021, 05:44:47 AM
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 05:45:51 AM
also what is the vote score?
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 05:47:05 AM
Lau lives in South Africa (based of bio) and it is 7:47 am for themhow much time is left until the day ends
It should have had ended by now , but we are at the mercy of Lau , and his sleep cycle potentially . All hail Lau!
Post by: Sapphiron on February 09, 2021, 05:47:10 AM
Post by: Doc on February 09, 2021, 05:49:09 AM
TGN (7): cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland, Sapphiron, BSR, Vroendal
Sapphiron (6): Minish, HumanDawn, Legacy of Smiles, TGN, Wintermoot, Kane
BraveSirRobin (2): Gerrick, Nyght
Gerrick (1): Red Mones
No vote: Michi, Anubhav
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 05:49:17 AM
Lau is tabulating now, but if you check the discord there are preliminary onesok
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 05:50:53 AM
Preliminary votecount off the Discord, credit to GerrickI have 0 defence, Idk what to say
TGN (7): cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland, Sapphiron, BSR, Vroendal
Sapphiron (6): Minish, HumanDawn, Legacy of Smiles, TGN, Wintermoot, Kane
BraveSirRobin (2): Gerrick, Nyght
Gerrick (1): Red Mones
No vote: Michi, Anubhav
Oh but I have this
|
v
I don't think my death will help...
wait, it will
ExLight has been pushing on me a lot
so if I'm town and I get lynched the ExLight will need to have a good backup
if I am scum then ExLight will be the best player who can know if someone is town or not based on a few posts.
My death will help the town for better or for worse
let's see if anyone gets scared or if more people vote for me
If I get lynched I am sticking around.
what was the point of this post?
IDK
did I change peoples perspective on me
probably not.
I
Post by: Vroendal on February 09, 2021, 05:52:43 AM
You should vote on another wagon.OH WAIT NO
Anubhav unvote right now!!!
Do u ask me to skip voting procedure today ? If not then do u want me to send my vote to the other wagon , and an updated voting table would be of help
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 05:53:41 AM
so if I'm town and I get lynched the ExLight will need to have a good backup"so if I'm town"
not even him is sure of his alignment smh
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 05:55:17 AM
I have to say it...so if I'm town and I get lynched the ExLight will need to have a good backup"so if I'm town"
not even him is sure of his alignment smh
sometimes I swear it feels like I am talking to a wall JKJKJKJK
I can't reveal my role so I came up with multiple situations
the fact I had to say it
Post by: Sapphiron on February 09, 2021, 05:56:59 AM
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 05:57:21 AM
You are allowed to reveal your general alignment, it’s not the same as your specific roleI rather it be a surprise :)
Post by: Laurentus on February 09, 2021, 05:57:31 AM
Disregard this, my spreadsheet for D2 broke, somehow.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 09, 2021, 05:57:38 AM
Also sus of this sudden Vro/Ghosh alliance.
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 05:57:54 AM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 09, 2021, 05:58:26 AM
No lynch
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 05:58:38 AM
if you're town, which would be really surprising to me at this point, I hope you learned you shouldn't just meme around and focus only on self-preserve yourself over scumhunting like you did this whole game :wave:
Sus of exlight. I’ll need to do some rereading to say why. But I’m getting wolfy vibes.in my land there's a saying that goes "if ExLight isn't looking scummy something is wrong"
Also sus of this sudden Vro/Ghosh alliance.
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 05:58:48 AM
Sus of exlight. I’ll need to do some rereading to say why. But I’m getting wolfy vibes.oh NOW we say it before I die >:(
Also sus of this sudden Vro/Ghosh alliance.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 09, 2021, 05:59:12 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 09, 2021, 05:59:16 AM
Unvote.So you maybe are his scumbud after all huh
No lynch
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 05:59:25 AM
Post by: TGN on February 09, 2021, 06:00:03 AM
you will seeUnvote.So you maybe are his scumbud after all huh
No lynch
IDK... I think TGN is town.NOW
Post by: Laurentus on February 09, 2021, 06:05:20 AM
RNGesus has decided that Sapphiron is the lynch.
Sapphiron was the Town Seer/Cop, Erwin Smith. A dark day for humanity, indeed.
Final Vote Count:
"Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
"
I'm using an excel formula to compile this, so sorry for the " there.
Post by: Laurentus on February 09, 2021, 08:48:24 AM
When we are in Final 7, Final 5 or Final 3 (meaning that when there are 3 Titans and 4 Townies, 2 Titans and 3 Townies, or 1 Titan and 2 Townies) left, lynch-by-majority will be enabled, and vote-changing will not be permitted.
The effect of this on Final 3 will be that if a Townie votes the wrong way, they immediately lose if the remaining Titan has not voted yet, because the remaining Titan can just vote for the same person and win.
Post by: Laurentus on February 10, 2021, 05:47:03 AM
Post by: TGN on February 10, 2021, 06:02:22 AM
with Sapp dead what does this tell us?
who can we clear, who should we push?
Post by: TGN on February 10, 2021, 06:05:58 AM
this might clear Cozmikrae
ExLight said you might be scumbuddies
referring to coz and sapp
so that puts coz as a town lean for me
and afterthought I can null ExLight
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 06:06:06 AM
ok
with Sapp dead what does this tell us?
who can we clear, who should we push?
I think we should push the players who made the wagons grow , very late
Post by: TGN on February 10, 2021, 06:09:39 AM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/804583492003954770/808578739654098974/unknown.png)
we can see Minish, Imaginative Kane, me (to save myself), Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, and Human Dawn voted Sapp
Post by: cozmikrae on February 10, 2021, 06:10:53 AM
sorry I just noticed
this might clear Cozmikrae
ExLight said you might be scumbuddies
referring to coz and sapp
so that puts coz as a town lean for me
and afterthought I can null ExLight
Actually, I think they meant you and I were scum buds since I unvoted for you and left it up to a cointoss. I pulled a Vro. lol
Post by: TGN on February 10, 2021, 06:11:48 AM
ahsorry I just noticed
this might clear Cozmikrae
ExLight said you might be scumbuddies
referring to coz and sapp
so that puts coz as a town lean for me
and afterthought I can null ExLight
Actually, I think they meant you and I were scum buds since I unvoted for you and left it up to a cointoss. I pulled a Vro. lol
so I guess you aren't clear yet
Post by: cozmikrae on February 10, 2021, 06:12:57 AM
Post by: TGN on February 10, 2021, 06:14:52 AM
I also mentioned that I felt ExLight was scummy. It was sort of a last minute read, so I think they were just countersussing.maybe
maybe
or light was defending himself?
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 06:15:35 AM
these doctors are either amazing or scum is inactive/messing up with us hoping we’ll clear someone we shouldn’t later
Erh, sorry for pushing Sapph’s wagon as an option last Day, I know it probably looks bad, but I’ll try to make up for it. I’ve been having mood swings and I have a mildly important test this Friday so my activity get a bit janky this Phase or in the next Day one.
I’m pinkie swearing to be Town, Minish and HumanDawn can probably vouch that I have a policy of never lying with these in a game, so this should act as an Innocent Child and save us from wasting time discussing me.
We should reread Sapph’s message to find who his targets were, since it could probably tell us his results. If I recall correctly I remember him putting Mel in his Towncore D2, so that was probably his N1 check.
For N2 there was the poem he wrote, his TGN vote, and him saying something about people being scum twice in a row not being impossible.
For the vote wagons: not a fan of Cozmikrae making a complete 180° in the last seconds allowing the tie to happen (which is the complete opposite of what people should want maybe) and TGN not biting the bullet. Not sure why Vro didn’t tell Anubvh to vote TGN to save Sapph since he clearly noticed what was going on and asking someone to vote their townlean doesn’t really seem like an excuse to let this happen.
Post by: TGN on February 10, 2021, 06:17:44 AM
lolthe pinky swear goes a long way
these doctors are either amazing or scum is inactive/messing up with us hoping we’ll clear someone we shouldn’t later
Erh, sorry for pushing Sapph’s wagon as an option last Day, I know it probably looks bad, but I’ll try to make up for it. I’ve been having mood swings and I have a mildly important test this Friday so my activity get a bit janky this Phase or in the next Day one.
I’m pinkie swearing to be Town, Minish and HumanDawn can probably vouch that I have a policy of never lying with these in a game, so this should act as an Innocent Child and save us from wasting time discussing me.
We should reread Sapph’s message to find who his targets were, since it could probably tell us his results. If I recall correctly I remember him putting Mel in his Towncore D2, so that was probably his N1 check.
For N2 there was the poem he wrote, his TGN vote, and him saying something about people being scum twice in a row not being impossible.
For the vote wagons: not a fan of Cozmikrae making a complete 180° in the last seconds allowing the tie to happen (which is the complete opposite of what people should want maybe) and TGN not biting the bullet. Not sure why Vro didn’t tell Anubvh to vote TGN to save Sapph since he clearly noticed what was going on and asking someone to vote their townlean doesn’t really seem like an excuse to let this happen.
and if I'm correct didn't coz start why wagon? the second one
Post by: cozmikrae on February 10, 2021, 06:17:59 AM
I also mentioned that I felt ExLight was scummy. It was sort of a last minute read, so I think they were just countersussing.maybe
maybe
or light was defending himself?
Didn't give a reason, I wanted to get my gut reactions out in the last minutes. I'll do an ISO and really describe what was pinging me soon.
Post by: Vroendal on February 10, 2021, 06:19:42 AM
Not sure why Vro didn’t tell Anubvh to vote TGN to save Sapph since he clearly noticed what was going on and asking someone to vote their townlean doesn’t really seem like an excuse to let this happen.When Anubhav voted he made a tie, I told him to unvote which put TGN in the majority once again. He asked if he should vote on another wagon and I said yes. I was then indisposed and was unable to see or comment on cozmik's unvote which forced a coinflip until after the lynch had already been decided by Lau.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 06:20:00 AM
You’ll be wasting your time. I can like prolly a dozen games, including at least 50 popcorn games in discord, showing that me pinkie swearing to be Town is absolute.I also mentioned that I felt ExLight was scummy. It was sort of a last minute read, so I think they were just countersussing.maybe
maybe
or light was defending himself?
Didn't give a reason, I wanted to get my gut reactions out in the last minutes. I'll do an ISO and really describe what was pinging me soon.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 10, 2021, 06:21:13 AM
lol
these doctors are either amazing or scum is inactive/messing up with us hoping we’ll clear someone we shouldn’t later
Erh, sorry for pushing Sapph’s wagon as an option last Day, I know it probably looks bad, but I’ll try to make up for it. I’ve been having mood swings and I have a mildly important test this Friday so my activity get a bit janky this Phase or in the next Day one.
I’m pinkie swearing to be Town, Minish and HumanDawn can probably vouch that I have a policy of never lying with these in a game, so this should act as an Innocent Child and save us from wasting time discussing me.
We should reread Sapph’s message to find who his targets were, since it could probably tell us his results. If I recall correctly I remember him putting Mel in his Towncore D2, so that was probably his N1 check.
For N2 there was the poem he wrote, his TGN vote, and him saying something about people being scum twice in a row not being impossible.
For the vote wagons: not a fan of Cozmikrae making a complete 180° in the last seconds allowing the tie to happen (which is the complete opposite of what people should want maybe) and TGN not biting the bullet. Not sure why Vro didn’t tell Anubvh to vote TGN to save Sapph since he clearly noticed what was going on and asking someone to vote their townlean doesn’t really seem like an excuse to let this happen.
I really felt I was voting for the wrong person based on his defense of himself in the last seconds. I remember a lot of people being worried about Sapph. There was a weird alliance between those two that popped in the last minutes, that made me uncomfortable.
Post by: TGN on February 10, 2021, 06:21:59 AM
I thought he did
but I don't think he is scum, pinky swear but that could be him trying to seem like a kid to get out of suspicion
just saying last game I was told to act like kid and use stuff like pinky swear and unfair, but I think Light is town lean
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 06:22:37 AM
But him voting TGN would’ve increased the gap and most likely prevented the Lynch from happening, right?Not sure why Vro didn’t tell Anubvh to vote TGN to save Sapph since he clearly noticed what was going on and asking someone to vote their townlean doesn’t really seem like an excuse to let this happen.When Anubhav voted he made a tie, I told him to unvote which put TGN in the majority once again. He asked if he should vote on another wagon and I said yes. I was then indisposed and was unable to see or comment on cozmik's unvote which forced a coinflip until after the lynch had already been decided by Lau.
Post by: TGN on February 10, 2021, 06:23:54 AM
*I can like link a dozen (...)maybeBut him voting TGN would’ve increased the gap and most likely prevented the Lynch from happening, right?Not sure why Vro didn’t tell Anubvh to vote TGN to save Sapph since he clearly noticed what was going on and asking someone to vote their townlean doesn’t really seem like an excuse to let this happen.When Anubhav voted he made a tie, I told him to unvote which put TGN in the majority once again. He asked if he should vote on another wagon and I said yes. I was then indisposed and was unable to see or comment on cozmik's unvote which forced a coinflip until after the lynch had already been decided by Lau.
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 06:27:11 AM
This is why not being around for eod sucks. I would have moved off that lynch but that's just taking my word for it now which means nothing.
@Laurentus sorry to keep bothering you about this but could you put the votes up for eod? It's just impossible for me the read the chart on mobile.
People who voted for Sapph after the softing are sus. Especially if they played LotR.
Also, like that vote should have been Sapph/BSR imo.
Also ya Ex does use pinky swears to not lie but you know I'm absolutely not treating that like innocent child. Haha. That's basically just like using meta. Either way I'm not worried about you today anyways.
Post by: Vroendal on February 10, 2021, 06:27:30 AM
But him voting TGN would’ve increased the gap and most likely prevented the Lynch from happening, right?Yes, it would have. From my point of view at the time Sapph's lynch was being prevented. I was voting TGN who was in the majority, I told Anubhav to vote on another wagon. I don't blame Anubhav for not voting past that point, but I admit I probably could have pushed him harder. I should mention that I was also town-reading TGN. I did not forsee cozmik's flip, which isn't really an excuse, but I could ask you why you didn't prevent the lynch either.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 06:30:39 AM
Y'all let the cop, clearly softing a power role, get lynched...You know he’d’ve done the same as scum
This is why not being around for eod sucks. I would have moved off that lynch but that's just taking my word for it now which means nothing.
@Laurentus sorry to keep bothering you about this but could you put the votes up for eod? It's just impossible for me the read the chart on mobile.
People who voted for Sapph after the softing are sus. Especially if they played LotR.
Also, like that vote should have been Sapph/BSR imo.
Also ya Ex does use pinky swears to not lie but you know I'm absolutely not treating that like innocent child. Haha. That's basically just like using meta. Either way I'm not worried about you today anyways.
and what the heck Minish, you know I’ll never lie about these ùmú
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 06:32:15 AM
Me? I though Sapph was scum bluffing. In any case I already had my vote on TGN, there wasn’t much for me to do.But him voting TGN would’ve increased the gap and most likely prevented the Lynch from happening, right?Yes, it would have. From my point of view at the time Sapph's lynch was being prevented. I was voting TGN who was in the majority, I told Anubhav to vote on another wagon. I don't blame Anubhav for not voting past that point, but I admit I probably could have pushed him harder. I should mention that I was also town-reading TGN. I did not forsee cozmik's flip, which isn't really an excuse, but I could ask you why you didn't prevent the lynch either.
Post by: TGN on February 10, 2021, 06:32:56 AM
I will hold you to thatY'all let the cop, clearly softing a power role, get lynched...You know he’d’ve done the same as scum
This is why not being around for eod sucks. I would have moved off that lynch but that's just taking my word for it now which means nothing.
@Laurentus sorry to keep bothering you about this but could you put the votes up for eod? It's just impossible for me the read the chart on mobile.
People who voted for Sapph after the softing are sus. Especially if they played LotR.
Also, like that vote should have been Sapph/BSR imo.
Also ya Ex does use pinky swears to not lie but you know I'm absolutely not treating that like innocent child. Haha. That's basically just like using meta. Either way I'm not worried about you today anyways.
and what the heck Minish, you know I’ll never lie about these ùmú
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 06:35:35 AM
Y'all let the cop, clearly softing a power role, get lynched...You know he’d’ve done the same as scum
This is why not being around for eod sucks. I would have moved off that lynch but that's just taking my word for it now which means nothing.
@Laurentus sorry to keep bothering you about this but could you put the votes up for eod? It's just impossible for me the read the chart on mobile.
People who voted for Sapph after the softing are sus. Especially if they played LotR.
Also, like that vote should have been Sapph/BSR imo.
Also ya Ex does use pinky swears to not lie but you know I'm absolutely not treating that like innocent child. Haha. That's basically just like using meta. Either way I'm not worried about you today anyways.
and what the heck Minish, you know I’ll never lie about these ùmú
No the way it was done was pretty dang townie. And you don't just lynch anyone claiming anything because that's how you get the cop lynched. He obviously felt bad about how things went in LotR with his claiming that went past the line of what the rules allowed. He fucking let himself be modkilled for integrity of the game and asked people to vote him before that. It was clear that he felt bad for that and I really don't feel he would have used that to soft in this situation if he were scum.
And you don't til you do so...:coolhecks:.
Post by: Vroendal on February 10, 2021, 06:37:25 AM
Vote - BraveSirRobin
Post by: TGN on February 10, 2021, 06:39:26 AM
can we wait for BSR to defend pls
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 06:46:41 AM
You’re good at interpreting poetry, what do you think of the poem he left us? I tried checking for breadcrumbing through hidden code but didn’t really find anything so if it softed results it’s likely in its meaning.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 06:48:36 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 06:49:47 AM
I can’t believe you’re acting like I’d ever lie with a pinkie promise :aaaAAA:erh this was aimed at Minish but anyone can that fits the bill can go for it too
You’re good at interpreting poetry, what do you think of the poem he left us? I tried checking for breadcrumbing through hidden code but didn’t really find anything so if it softed results it’s likely in its meaning.
Post by: Red Mones on February 10, 2021, 06:51:42 AM
Yeah. Remove me, Ruguo and Sapph, that leaves BSR, Vro, and Michi. I'd suspect one of those three is scum.So I ask you one more time: Opinions on the following players:Okay, basically Ruguo threw out a list of people he happened to be casting suspicions all over, and seeing he flipped red, there should be at least 1 wolf within the list, at least I do not think an experienced player would go to the extent of allowing Townies to create a core of 6 upon death.
Vro, Me, BSR, Sapph
And optionally: Red, Michi
This point about Vro was one contributor to me thinking less of Vro yesterday.I'm going to Vote: TGN
Not only to semi protect Sapph, who appears to be doing some pretty good hinting here, but also because Vro wants to defend TGN, which makes me suspicious, because Ruguo was scum and because Hapi was innocent. Do we not remember that Ruguo was trying to tie Hapi and myself and Sapph together, and then Hapi was flipped and Ruguo flipped scum? That should be obvious enough. Maybe I'm relying too much on Valeria being similar here, but I definitely don't think that we should vote off Sapph right now, especially if the power role is in play as a possibility
Also as far as defending myself from a mention which is now like ages ago, Vro and Ruguo were anti me the whole game basically, which makes me really think that they're scum and working together, which I think is an appropriate conclusion from my situation. *shrug*
I like this point of Vro and Ruguo being against you all game. Which is interesting, considering you've posted like what? 5 times all game? I've heard your name from various people more than I've actually seen you post. I've never played with you before, but your nearly complete silence coupled with all the mentions against you is definitely interesting to me.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 06:54:10 AM
Do we dare taking guesses on who scum might’ve shot that got blocked though? If we’re not fluking there should be stuff in-thread telling us who was more likely to get shot.
Post by: TGN on February 10, 2021, 06:57:56 AM
see ya in the morning
Post by: Sapphiron on February 10, 2021, 07:34:29 AM
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/hjYI0v6g7foq30NiTqBvaW_4n7NI-HzkZs_9duejE7ATqSdgFYu6U8uYfFg0shPKhsF0hHiZqBEw7wo72D86lgIax5kyG6FUazRIK7VUn9tfZkwlM-pEkkO9whWkZcVZfQD9NG2Y)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3c/26/df/3c26dfb7a4b431e39fcfbf5ea26e273a.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/da/9b/cc/da9bcccf2625b64a67a132d28a201e62.jpg)
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 07:36:46 AM
I can’t believe you’re acting like I’d ever lie with a pinkie promise :aaaAAA:
You’re good at interpreting poetry, what do you think of the poem he left us? I tried checking for breadcrumbing through hidden code but didn’t really find anything so if it softed results it’s likely in its meaning.
Why wouldn't you when you know you could get away with it? Haha.
I'll have to look at the poem again. I tried to see if he was softing cop in it when I woke up and saw the flip but didn't see anything in it. Need to see if maybe he was softing results.
Also Nyght was a town read because this is his first game and he seemed to have townie analysis d1 for his first game.
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 07:41:37 AM
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 08:09:40 AM
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 08:26:31 AM
Can I get a quick vote count please? (in case somebody has been taking count)
TGN looks like he is about to be lynched - I don't feel confident pushing this but admittedly I don't have as much of a grasp of the game as other players so my opinion may be moot in who we should actually lynch. I don't buy that the whole thing was distancing. From my experience, how Ruguo coached TGN seems familiar of how I've seen scum coach town in how they act overly friendly. Ruguo would have had more success in trying to be combative to TGN to distance rather than give advice. Maybe you can argue that it's WIFOM and that's what they wanted me to think, but it's not the impression I'm getting at least.
@cozmikrae - Could you link me to the post that shows Ruguo linking himself to TGN?
The posts in question:Ruguo accidentally linking himself to TGN*insert generic complaint about reading the thread here*
Aww, Min doesn't like me anymore. That's sad. In my defense though, when have I ever scumhunted? I think I did one misguided attempt at attacking last game and a lot of waffling between the wifom.
Hey TGN, It's good to bring up past game in our defense, but do be careful that defending yourself or omgus voting isn't the only actions you contribute. I think the best way for you to absolve yourself would be to tell us how you're feeling about certain players, especially those of interest today. That currently seems to include You, BSR, Vro, Somewhat Michi, and I guess also me. Hooray, I'm interesting! I think Red could also be considered interesting if you wanna talk about that too.
I'd like to take a closer look at Sapph- something seems a bit off there. Now I could be misremembering, but I've come to expect longer and more of a...frustrated yet cheerful headvoice from him. I'm getting more of a blase feeling, and I don't remember if that's good or bad. So I guess I'll go ISO and see if anything else seems of at some point.My post was neither defensive or in response to 'suspicion thrown' my way. Ruguo just said I expanded a lot on a little for no good reason, and I legitimately wonder why people feel that way because it came up after D1 last game as well. Expanding a lot on a little is what everyone does on D1, so why is it odd that I do it?
That's fair, I wasn't sussing you, just trying to connect to your shoes. You just have a tendency to pick out somewhat strange things compared to others, Moot. That's not bad.
That's about what I've got, yup.EBWOP: It would appear I forgot a Y in my post and have somehow ended up linking myself to TGN.Hey TGN, It's good to bring up past game in your defense,
It's supposed to be like that. Sorry.
Just a potential Freudian slip. If you want to read it in context, this is about page 26. What was funny was how quickly he came back to fix it. I literally would never have noticed otherwise.
Oh wow, this is really damning... I guess one can argue that it could be a plot by Ruguo to link himself with TGN and then unlink himself for WIFOM to suspect TGN later - but at that point, Ruguo wasn't really in much heat to get lynched. In light of this I'm... okay with TGN being lynched.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 08:28:31 AM
So I'm gonna have to BSR. I simply haven't seen a coherent defense from him as of yet.
What did you think of the Sapph and TGN votes at that time?
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 08:32:22 AM
I was not actually intending to No Lynch and I did not officially use it since I changed my vote to BSR. My reason for the early defensive posts is just to start preparing a defense early since I usually seem to be suspicious which often results in some wagon danger.I would not necessarily be that annoyed this time if I was lynched though I definitely would not recommend doing it. @Legacy of Smiles and @ExlLght could you explain why I am sus? I think I understand that some of the cause is just from my regular playstyle (voting away from the wagons and holding back information that I lack), or is that wrong?I'm not really sure, I think there were a few posts of yours that pinged me a bit.
From the top of my head I remember you burning your No Lynch really early on, that vote defending yourself seemed a bit outta nowhere and hyperdefensive, and you being on the fence about Silver.
You also seem to only have voted for BSR throughout the whole game despite his wagon never being viable, which gives limited information for us. A bit funny you didn't seem to pressure them this phase despite this being the closest he got of being lynched tho.
That is true that I only voted for BSR, my reasoning for that was because I did not see agree with the major wagons that were up on those days (I found out how wrong that belief was last day phase but was correct on the first day phase). The only reason I ever join those wagons is because I fully agree or mostly agree and find them suspicious. Otherwise, I vote for someone else who I find suspicious despite it not making a difference. That is just how I vote normally, sorry if that makes you suspicious of me. The reason I have not pressured them in this day phase is because I have not been online for most of this day phase. Yesterday, I simply did not open up this website or log in because I was starting on some assignments and watching some shows. The one post I did make (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156651#msg156651), I think explains well enough why I did not vote at that point in time.
This is a really good defense - makes me feel a lot better about this slot.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 08:38:51 AM
I'm going to Vote: TGN
Not only to semi protect Sapph, who appears to be doing some pretty good hinting here, but also because Vro wants to defend TGN, which makes me suspicious, because Ruguo was scum and because Hapi was innocent. Do we not remember that Ruguo was trying to tie Hapi and myself and Sapph together, and then Hapi was flipped and Ruguo flipped scum? That should be obvious enough. Maybe I'm relying too much on Valeria being similar here, but I definitely don't think that we should vote off Sapph right now, especially if the power role is in play as a possibility
Also as far as defending myself from a mention which is now like ages ago, Vro and Ruguo were anti me the whole game basically, which makes me really think that they're scum and working together, which I think is an appropriate conclusion from my situation. *shrug*
Considering Sapph just softed a few posts before this, this is a really good action to take. I'm not a believer in Vro and TGN being linked from Vro defending TGN, but yeah, this was the best possible action to take. Considering there are two Doctors - Mafia would try to find any excuse to get a potential PR lynched.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 08:42:05 AM
Unfortunately, you either trust me or you don't. I am not going to commit the same sin as I have done last game, allowing over-investment in the game to result in roleclaiming and rule breach. That will have to do to explain for my detached way of playing this round. You guys will find out whether you are right or wrong in lynching me soon enough.Hmm, that feels like more of a believable motivation.
Also, I don't believe it's that implausible for a person to be given the scum role twice in a role. You guys make it sound like Doc wasn't consecutively Wolf before.
However, I should also note that I think you're veering too far in the direction of the other extreme. If you do end up being lynched as a power role, I would consider the lack of a quality (or really any kind of) defense to be throwing in a way as well. If I assume you have thought about this already, I am left to suppose that you aren't a power role, or have a mindset of throwing on the other extreme to atone for throwing on the first extreme, which doesn't even make sense and I would not expect that from you.
I also really dislike that BSR is really latching onto the idea of you being a power role just from my slight musing, that's ringing alarm bells.
Can the option of lynching BSR still be on the table @ExLight? Just wondering.
What else do you expect him to do though? Why is it bad to play a bit safe?
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 08:43:51 AM
Vro's voting and unvoting still remains questionable to me , after all , if he turns out as a scum , he will have the best knowledge about lynch consequences . Either way , I have strong gut feelings , that Vro will be lynched in all certainty . Ig everyone would be happy to remove one suspect of the list of scum than keep one hoping him to be innocent . Sorry Vro if this hurts u , but u made a bad name for urself. I hope u understand whatever the play is here , u have drawn far too much suspicion
this post raises !!! in my head
“ye bro sorry if you’re good man you brought it on yourself not because our thinking could be wrong”
This was a decoy sort of post i would say . What i was looking for was retaliation , which unfortunately took place before this post as many cited Vro's chance of being a townie and no one . I looked out for people who did not retaliate , because even after the best defenses and clarifications i stubbornly stood on my words , and said things as if it was fixed that Vro will be lynched by the town . The post did not go very well , as i did not receive counters until now , and here I am justifying why i did it . It was just a measure to clear out some people out of suspicion momentarily
Looking for retaliation makes sense. This post makes me feel a lot better about you. Your late vote on Ruguo at the end pings me, but... ehh?
I had to get my options reduced , I was pretty much sure that Vro was townie by then . However my doubts over the rest cleared up when Ruguo went in hot against Vro at the last moment, which looked like a vain push to me to save himself from getting lynched . And so the late voting . I was probably the 3rd/4th person voting for ruguo . Also voting and unvoting has got some big chaos running already , its better to vote once even if its late😅
I think your vote was way later than that. If I get to rereading the thread, I'll pay more attention to wagonicomics.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 08:45:03 AM
Updated vote count
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
BSR - 2 (Gerrick, Nyght)
Sapphiron - 7 (Minish, Humandawn, Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal, TGN, Wintermoot, Imaginative Kane)
TGN - 6 (cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland, Sapphiron, BSR)
Yet to vote: Anubhav, Michi
incoherant screaming
Town reads -
Red, Nyght, HD, cozmik, Gerrick, Doc, Michi, Wisch
Nulls -
Minish, Legacy, Exlight, Sapph, TGN, Wintermoot, Anubhav
Scum reads -
BSR
If I choose to trust Minish, Anubhav, Sapph, and Legacy through gut reads I can narrow down further. Legacy is sussing Kane, for what I don't know yet. If I then assume there is at least 1 wolf up in a wagon right now, the wolves are among BSR, TGN, Wintermoot, ExLight and Kane. If BSR is viable, I want to go for it.
Change Vote - BSR
I feel strongly about this.
Vote BSR?? For what, not voting the soft claimed PR?
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 08:50:00 AM
D2 results -
Ruguo - 9 (Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Sapphiron, Minish, Michi, Melehan, Cozmikrae)
Vroendal - 5 (Ruguo, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Doc)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Eastern New England - 1 (Self)
Current D3 votecount -Updated vote count
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
BSR - 3 (Gerrick, Nyght, Vroendal)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Humandawn, Legacy of Smiles, TGN, Wintermoot, Imaginative Kane)
TGN - 6 (cozmikrae, Doc, ExLight, Wischland, Sapphiron, BSR)
Noteable things to me -
Kane is no longer going after BSR but is instead going after Sapph when BSR is a wagon, Wintermoot is on an opposing wagon from me again, BraveSirRobin is on an opposing wagon from me again, TGN has just been chaos, and ExLight we need more info on.
From these observations alone, I think scum are likely to be among the players I just mentioned. I may not be right, but it's interesting that there are certain players who have opposing votes as me both yesterday and today when I was on a wagon against a Titan, just saying.
I'm not sure it means much - you're presenting the conflicting opinions in a really simplistic manner without biting in how it's suspicious. Is the progression from one player to another bad? Players can have opposing view points and still share your alignment - stating that they're suspicious just because they vote opposing wagons isn't really insightful or encouraging.
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 08:51:38 AM
Can I get a quick vote count please? (in case somebody has been taking count)
TGN looks like he is about to be lynched - I don't feel confident pushing this but admittedly I don't have as much of a grasp of the game as other players so my opinion may be moot in who we should actually lynch. I don't buy that the whole thing was distancing. From my experience, how Ruguo coached TGN seems familiar of how I've seen scum coach town in how they act overly friendly. Ruguo would have had more success in trying to be combative to TGN to distance rather than give advice. Maybe you can argue that it's WIFOM and that's what they wanted me to think, but it's not the impression I'm getting at least.
@cozmikrae - Could you link me to the post that shows Ruguo linking himself to TGN?
The posts in question:Ruguo accidentally linking himself to TGN*insert generic complaint about reading the thread here*
Aww, Min doesn't like me anymore. That's sad. In my defense though, when have I ever scumhunted? I think I did one misguided attempt at attacking last game and a lot of waffling between the wifom.
Hey TGN, It's good to bring up past game in our defense, but do be careful that defending yourself or omgus voting isn't the only actions you contribute. I think the best way for you to absolve yourself would be to tell us how you're feeling about certain players, especially those of interest today. That currently seems to include You, BSR, Vro, Somewhat Michi, and I guess also me. Hooray, I'm interesting! I think Red could also be considered interesting if you wanna talk about that too.
I'd like to take a closer look at Sapph- something seems a bit off there. Now I could be misremembering, but I've come to expect longer and more of a...frustrated yet cheerful headvoice from him. I'm getting more of a blase feeling, and I don't remember if that's good or bad. So I guess I'll go ISO and see if anything else seems of at some point.My post was neither defensive or in response to 'suspicion thrown' my way. Ruguo just said I expanded a lot on a little for no good reason, and I legitimately wonder why people feel that way because it came up after D1 last game as well. Expanding a lot on a little is what everyone does on D1, so why is it odd that I do it?
That's fair, I wasn't sussing you, just trying to connect to your shoes. You just have a tendency to pick out somewhat strange things compared to others, Moot. That's not bad.
That's about what I've got, yup.EBWOP: It would appear I forgot a Y in my post and have somehow ended up linking myself to TGN.Hey TGN, It's good to bring up past game in your defense,
It's supposed to be like that. Sorry.
Just a potential Freudian slip. If you want to read it in context, this is about page 26. What was funny was how quickly he came back to fix it. I literally would never have noticed otherwise.
Oh wow, this is really damning... I guess one can argue that it could be a plot by Ruguo to link himself with TGN and then unlink himself for WIFOM to suspect TGN later - but at that point, Ruguo wasn't really in much heat to get lynched. In light of this I'm... okay with TGN being lynched.
This is...not damning at all. It just looks like very easy typo to make to me. Our vs your is a normal typo. I really don't think scum makes that kind of slip, regardless of if TGN is scum. This is like people thinking I slipped for calling the defender doc, when there's a player named Doc.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 08:54:29 AM
I have my suspicions looming over Kane , but its basically of no use to create wagon that most certainly won't reap .
As for me I feel TGN is just desperate , his lack of reasoning might be the lack of posts he has , which is why he can't fall back and quote something to prove his innocence , and with time running out , he is making impulsive comments . Again the scumchat stuff is quite a good point and the fact Ruguo made his place in TGN's top town reads also arouses suspicion.
However weighing both the views i believe TGN might be on the good side .
Hence , Vote:Sapphiron
Conveniently ignores the soft claim from Sapph and even the discussion about the soft, instead mostly explaining why he is not voting TGN rather than explain why he is voting for Sapph.
I'd like to hear about the suspicions looming over Kane.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 08:57:55 AM
This is...not damning at all. It just looks like very easy typo to make to me. Our vs your is a normal typo. I really don't think scum makes that kind of slip, regardless of if TGN is scum. This is like people thinking I slipped for calling the defender doc, when there's a player named Doc.
I don't think it's like saying you slipped for calling the defender Doc when that has to do with a player name which could confuse others. Even so, I'm not going to lynch TGN over it alone. He was the better lynch for Day 3 and if I was around for EoD I would have probably voted for him over Sapph.
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 09:00:55 AM
This is...not damning at all. It just looks like very easy typo to make to me. Our vs your is a normal typo. I really don't think scum makes that kind of slip, regardless of if TGN is scum. This is like people thinking I slipped for calling the defender doc, when there's a player named Doc.
I don't think it's like saying you slipped for calling the defender Doc when that has to do with a player name which could confuse others. Even so, I'm not going to lynch TGN over it alone. He was the better lynch for Day 3 and if I was around for EoD I would have probably voted for him over Sapph.
I mean it kind of is because even after I explained it Mele still thought it was a scumslip.
I think it's fair to scumread TGN and he would've been lynched had I been around at eod. I just don't think a typo is indicative of a slip and don't think it's good evidence against TGN.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 09:09:07 AM
Less than 2 hours to go, I present an original poem written by yours truly, titled Performance
Life’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
I never liked poetry in English Literature... It always sounded like it was trying to be edgy without saying anything interesting or remotely coherent, but this is good.
I bolded and underlined stuff that could be helpful or relevant, taking the first letters and reading them from top to bottom and bottom to top, but I can't make sense of LACFLATSNW, or WNSTALFCAL. Maybe it's from a different angle or place? I really hope this is actually important because if you spend the time to make an original poem which means nothing then... :M
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 09:13:59 AM
IDK... I think TGN is town.
TGN didn't soft a power role. Sapph did.
Even if you think TGN is Town, his lynch would have been better than putting Sapph at risk of being lynched.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 09:17:06 AM
sorry I just noticed
this might clear Cozmikrae
ExLight said you might be scumbuddies
referring to coz and sapp
so that puts coz as a town lean for me
and afterthought I can null ExLight
It doesn't clear Cozmikrae at all...? What? How is a different player suspecting cozmikrae and Sapphiron as scum partners together, and one of them flipping town, makes the other Town for you?
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 09:23:54 AM
lol
these doctors are either amazing or scum is inactive/messing up with us hoping we’ll clear someone we shouldn’t later
Erh, sorry for pushing Sapph’s wagon as an option last Day, I know it probably looks bad, but I’ll try to make up for it. I’ve been having mood swings and I have a mildly important test this Friday so my activity get a bit janky this Phase or in the next Day one.
I’m pinkie swearing to be Town, Minish and HumanDawn can probably vouch that I have a policy of never lying with these in a game, so this should act as an Innocent Child and save us from wasting time discussing me.
We should reread Sapph’s message to find who his targets were, since it could probably tell us his results. If I recall correctly I remember him putting Mel in his Towncore D2, so that was probably his N1 check.
For N2 there was the poem he wrote, his TGN vote, and him saying something about people being scum twice in a row not being impossible.
For the vote wagons: not a fan of Cozmikrae making a complete 180° in the last seconds allowing the tie to happen (which is the complete opposite of what people should want maybe) and TGN not biting the bullet. Not sure why Vro didn’t tell Anubvh to vote TGN to save Sapph since he clearly noticed what was going on and asking someone to vote their townlean doesn’t really seem like an excuse to let this happen.
I hope your mood swings get better! Good luck for your exam!!
I actually don't remember which game you used the pinky swear in. I think it's pointless but for the sake of humoring it, was it Spongebob Mafia that you used it? Superman and Sonic had you in scum games.
So you're saying his TGN vote is from a N2 scum check? I think he would have been more forceful throughout the day to do that. I agree that it's likely Mel was his N1 check. Shame they got killed N2.
Not a fan of what Cozmikrae did there either and I already explained the logistic issue with that a few posts before here. Yeah, Vro could have told Anubvh to vote TGN, and Anubvh could have voted TGN without Vro telling him.
Post by: Laurentus on February 10, 2021, 09:28:06 AM
Y'all let the cop, clearly softing a power role, get lynched...
This is why not being around for eod sucks. I would have moved off that lynch but that's just taking my word for it now which means nothing.
@Laurentus sorry to keep bothering you about this but could you put the votes up for eod? It's just impossible for me the read the chart on mobile.
People who voted for Sapph after the softing are sus. Especially if they played LotR.
Also, like that vote should have been Sapph/BSR imo.
Also ya Ex does use pinky swears to not lie but you know I'm absolutely not treating that like innocent child. Haha. That's basically just like using meta. Either way I'm not worried about you today anyways.
I have updated the EoD3 vote count to give results a human can see more easily. Sorry, I'm really not trying to be lazy, I just have very little time in the mornings before I end the phases, as it's always just before work.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 09:29:31 AM
Me? I though Sapph was scum bluffing. In any case I already had my vote on TGN, there wasn’t much for me to do.But him voting TGN would’ve increased the gap and most likely prevented the Lynch from happening, right?Yes, it would have. From my point of view at the time Sapph's lynch was being prevented. I was voting TGN who was in the majority, I told Anubhav to vote on another wagon. I don't blame Anubhav for not voting past that point, but I admit I probably could have pushed him harder. I should mention that I was also town-reading TGN. I did not forsee cozmik's flip, which isn't really an excuse, but I could ask you why you didn't prevent the lynch either.
Lame.
Even if he is scum bluffing, we would have known he was lying later down the game if the three confirmed power roles die, or suspect him more based on whether he stayed alive or not. What made you think he was scum bluffing specifically here? I expect a lot more from you on something like this...
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 09:30:21 AM
Well for myself, I know that a few things I want today is to get BSR as a main wagon contender today, have @Legacy of Smiles tell what they found suspicious about Kane, and have @Wintermoot talk more. With that in mind I shall start the vote on
Vote - BraveSirRobin
Why?
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 09:36:32 AM
I’m a bit confused as to why people are clearing Nyghts since he’s null-scummy to me, though.
Do we dare taking guesses on who scum might’ve shot that got blocked though? If we’re not fluking there should be stuff in-thread telling us who was more likely to get shot.
Yeah, still interested in hearing why Red Mones top town read Nyghts before.
I think taking guesses is a waste of time, especially considering how big the game is. Whoever they targeted is probably more likely to be a Doctor suspect, which would be easier for them to find and reason knowing who is Town.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 10, 2021, 09:57:19 AM
2. Red Mones
3. Vroendal
4. Gerrick
6. Anubhav Ghosh
8. Wischland
9. Minish
10. Michi
11. Imaginative Kane
12. BraveSirRobin
13. TGN
14. Wintermoot
15. NyghtOwl
16.
17. Doc
18. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
19. Alexander Valentine / ExLight
20. cozmikrae
21. Eastern New England / HumanDawn
Final Vote Count:
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
Not voting: Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Michi
From Day 3 EoD, I'm mostly bothered with Cozmikrae for his unvote putting a soft PR at risk and Anubhav Ghosh ignoring the Sapphiron soft claim. ExLight said he didn't necessarily trust the soft PR claim, but his vote was actually on TGN, not Sapphiron, so I can't really get bothered by that (sorry ExLight for the disappointed comment earlier).
I am okay with throwing TGN a bone for voting Sapphiron for survival and in the case that Sapphiron could be scum to help clear him, and he's new at the game too.
I want to know where @Imaginative Kane, @Wintermoot and @Legacy of Smile were doing. For me and Minish we weren't around EoD and I was asleep when the softclaim happened. Phase updates at 7AM and I didn't make an alarm to wake up at that time.
Out of Cozmikrae and Anubhav Ghosh, I don't know which one bothers me more. They were both off plays. Cozmikrae comes off as more experienced than Anubhav to me, so his play is more suspect.
Vote: Cozmikrae
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 10:01:44 AM
If I were to break a pinkie promise it wouldn’t be in a small game like this with no stakes lolI can’t believe you’re acting like I’d ever lie with a pinkie promise :aaaAAA:
You’re good at interpreting poetry, what do you think of the poem he left us? I tried checking for breadcrumbing through hidden code but didn’t really find anything so if it softed results it’s likely in its meaning.
Why wouldn't you when you know you could get away with it? Haha.
I'll have to look at the poem again. I tried to see if he was softing cop in it when I woke up and saw the flip but didn't see anything in it. Need to see if maybe he was softing results.
Also Nyght was a town read because this is his first game and he seemed to have townie analysis d1 for his first game.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 10:17:10 AM
It’s a bit trickier than this because claiming is not allowed, so there’s always that WIFOM on whether or not it really is a soft. In any case waiting for 3 power roles to die is kinda brutal and the odds of hitting -Lo with at least one of them alive isn’t small at all. Not to mention he could always kill all people that realized the soft until then, and leave only inexperienced players that didn’t realize it around to get away with it even if all Power Roles flipped.Me? I though Sapph was scum bluffing. In any case I already had my vote on TGN, there wasn’t much for me to do.But him voting TGN would’ve increased the gap and most likely prevented the Lynch from happening, right?Yes, it would have. From my point of view at the time Sapph's lynch was being prevented. I was voting TGN who was in the majority, I told Anubhav to vote on another wagon. I don't blame Anubhav for not voting past that point, but I admit I probably could have pushed him harder. I should mention that I was also town-reading TGN. I did not forsee cozmik's flip, which isn't really an excuse, but I could ask you why you didn't prevent the lynch either.
Lame.
Even if he is scum bluffing, we would have known he was lying later down the game if the three confirmed power roles die, or suspect him more based on whether he stayed alive or not. What made you think he was scum bluffing specifically here? I expect a lot more from you on something like this...
I expected him to bluff because I’m aware he’s an experienced player and he’d know this is the best play for scum. His actions of laying low were ambiguous at best, I’d’ve been way more likely to think it was legit if he had put more effort scumhunting umu
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 10:31:12 AM
Players:Just got free and I'll make that case on Kane shortly. EoD is 5am for me and I go to bed 4-5 hours before that so I wasn't online at anywhere near that time.1. Ruguo
2. Red Mones
3. Vroendal
4. Gerrick5. Adorable Oracle Hapi
6. Anubhav Ghosh7. Sapphiron - Cop
8. Wischland
9. Minish
10. Michi
11. Imaginative Kane
12. BraveSirRobin
13. TGN
14. Wintermoot
15. NyghtOwl
16.Melehan
17. Doc
18. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
19. Alexander Valentine / ExLight
20. cozmikrae
21. Eastern New England / HumanDawn
Final Vote Count:
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
Not voting: Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Michi
From Day 3 EoD, I'm mostly bothered with Cozmikrae for his unvote putting a soft PR at risk and Anubhav Ghosh ignoring the Sapphiron soft claim. ExLight said he didn't necessarily trust the soft PR claim, but his vote was actually on TGN, not Sapphiron, so I can't really get bothered by that (sorry ExLight for the disappointed comment earlier).
I am okay with throwing TGN a bone for voting Sapphiron for survival and in the case that Sapphiron could be scum to help clear him, and he's new at the game too.
I want to know where @Imaginative Kane, @Wintermoot and @Legacy of Smile were doing. For me and Minish we weren't around EoD and I was asleep when the softclaim happened. Phase updates at 7AM and I didn't make an alarm to wake up at that time.
Out of Cozmikrae and Anubhav Ghosh, I don't know which one bothers me more. They were both off plays. Cozmikrae comes off as more experienced than Anubhav to me, so his play is more suspect.
Vote: Cozmikrae
I am bothered by Sapphiron getting lynched after his very strong hinting, wolves almost certainly noticed that he was a PR and pushed that if they thought they could get away with it. Particularly, I want to look at people who voted Sapphiron/moved their votes elsewhere to put him in the lead today and I think the fact that a lot of them didn't actually acknowledge Sapphiron's soft while they did so (looking at Anubhav in particular, who voted Sapphiron without mentioning Sapphiron in their vote explanation and talking about TGN instead).
Have we gotten anywhere with finding any hints that Sapphiron left in regards to who they checked? I'm assuming they didn't check any wolves as I don't remember them pushing anybody in particular super hard.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 10:32:57 AM
Thanks!! I hope it gets better soon too umulol
these doctors are either amazing or scum is inactive/messing up with us hoping we’ll clear someone we shouldn’t later
Erh, sorry for pushing Sapph’s wagon as an option last Day, I know it probably looks bad, but I’ll try to make up for it. I’ve been having mood swings and I have a mildly important test this Friday so my activity get a bit janky this Phase or in the next Day one.
I’m pinkie swearing to be Town, Minish and HumanDawn can probably vouch that I have a policy of never lying with these in a game, so this should act as an Innocent Child and save us from wasting time discussing me.
We should reread Sapph’s message to find who his targets were, since it could probably tell us his results. If I recall correctly I remember him putting Mel in his Towncore D2, so that was probably his N1 check.
For N2 there was the poem he wrote, his TGN vote, and him saying something about people being scum twice in a row not being impossible.
For the vote wagons: not a fan of Cozmikrae making a complete 180° in the last seconds allowing the tie to happen (which is the complete opposite of what people should want maybe) and TGN not biting the bullet. Not sure why Vro didn’t tell Anubvh to vote TGN to save Sapph since he clearly noticed what was going on and asking someone to vote their townlean doesn’t really seem like an excuse to let this happen.
I hope your mood swings get better! Good luck for your exam!!
I actually don't remember which game you used the pinky swear in. I think it's pointless but for the sake of humoring it, was it Spongebob Mafia that you used it? Superman and Sonic had you in scum games.
So you're saying his TGN vote is from a N2 scum check? I think he would have been more forceful throughout the day to do that. I agree that it's likely Mel was his N1 check. Shame they got killed N2.
Not a fan of what Cozmikrae did there either and I already explained the logistic issue with that a few posts before here. Yeah, Vro could have told Anubvh to vote TGN, and Anubvh could have voted TGN without Vro telling him.
I actually don’t remember which game on Bulba I used it, lol. But I know I used it to clear myself in a couple there, I’ll see if I can find them. I don’t think it was Spongebob though.
I’m saying it’s a possibility. But we should figure out if he had a Green or Red check on someone first. The only message that really stuck out to me was him saying people could roll scum twice in a row, but that was referring to TGN (although the name he used to illustrate his point was Doc). So that and his single vote on TGN makes me think on the possibility of TGN, who was a key figure D2 and thus likely to be copped, being scum.
If he had a red check on someone else I feel like he’d’ve done something to give a really strong hint like voting the red check and unvoting right after. And I don’t remember seeing him putting anyone in town cores like he did with his (likely) N1 check. So I do feel like it might’ve been him pointing directions at TGN. Whether or not it was purely to save himself I don’t know.
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 11:22:13 AM
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
Haven't gotten anything from this poem yet in terms of an obvious answer. But there are a few interesting lines. "No, no, you have it backward" seems to indicate that the message may be written backwards in the poem. There's also the idea that it could mean the message is the opposite but that's a bit tricky to trust.
"Be at the center" and "Stay on the stage don't reach for the aisle" seems it could indicate the message would be in the middle of the poem and not on the sides. The one thing that throws me off for that is the "From the sides here comes your fellow actors". But two lines seem to hint staying in the center.
The line "Look at the script! Remember be genuine" sounds like it would be pretty important but I've got nothing from it.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 11:43:10 AM
Why I scumread Kane:
Spoiler
Quote
This is also something I am wondering about after reading through posts on the topic.
For now I will use my No Lynch vote but that will change later on since I am sure some other players will eventually look more suspicious.
Melehan has been triggering some of my suspicion because from what I remember when reading and playing previous Werewolf games, the players who were committed to a role in all of their posts were usually evil or just hiding something. Hapi in the last game proved an exception to the evil players posting in character but I think the Batman game had a few cases like that (and then there are the "generic Batman quotes").
There's nothing specific that pings me in this post but there's not a whole lot accomplished either. Mostly saying they sus Mekehan and then arguing against their sus on Melehan and then saying they want to NL. Seems more likely a wolf makes this post trying to fit in and not post many opinions of their own.
Quote
An updated vote track. As of Vroendal's count it was like this:While this is very useful, it is also actually the post that first pinged me on Kane when I was reading. Seems like IIoA (information instead of analysis) where a beginner wolf tries to look universally helpful by spending a lot of time posting objective facts like the posts below. It's not wolfy that Kane is posting info posts like these, and they are very helpful, but it is wolfy that a good proportion of Kane's posts are completely objective info with no strong opinions of his own.
Hapi 2 (Red, Melehan)
Red 2 (Hapi, cozmikrae)
Michi 2 (Gerrick, Vroendal)
Wintermoot 1 (NyghtOwl)
Doc 1 (Ruguo)
Vroendal 1 (Sapphiron)
Sapphiron 1 (TGN)
Ruguo then voted for Michi to apply some pressure.
Not sure if TGN's post after that was voting for Michi since they had their vote on Sapphiron and then said Unvote: Michi.
NyghtOwl then changed their vote to Hapi thinking Wintermoot was just like voting a third party candidate and citing the potential for chaos.
Then TGN changed their vote to a joke vote on Laurentus. (for editing a post)
Then I made my No Lynch vote (pending more information).
Hapi then changed their vote to cozmikrae. (jumping on a joke wagon but not convincing Hapi why)
Hapi 3 (Red, Melehan, NyghtOwl)
Red 1 (cozmikrae)
Michi 3 (Gerrick, Vroendal, Ruguo)
Vroendal 1 (Sapphiron)
Laurentus 1 (TGN)
cozmikrae 1 (Hapi)
No Lynch 1 (Kane)
I will check this game later but now I am going to focus on school stuff.
Quote
While I would rather vote No Lynch, I am not actually planning to. I am just using it as a placeholder which I thought I made clear with that wording. Also what information could I hand out without pinning a target on me? It is only D1.
This is a really weird thing for a townsperson to think / say and emphasises the blending in mindset I saw before. I don't see why a townsperson would want to blend in like this.
Quote
The main player I am not at all suspicious of so far is NyghtOwl. I like their original voting justification so for now I will go off of that in case I am not active before the day ends. BSR seems a bit too quiet so far but they haven't been online for a while so that is somewhat excusable. I really don't have any plausible suspicions so far. Just weak suspicions of Robin, Melehan, and Minish. I just have a gut feeling with Minish for some reason. Neither Hapi nor Michi seem scummy to me. Everyone else is generally on the same level as Hapi and Michi, neither suspicious nor not suspicious.
I will vote BraveSirRobin for now since they fit the bill and I wonder if they are doing what I often do: view the forums without logging in.
The argument on BSR is very weak here... so why are they still tunneling this person on D4? Kane even makes an excuse for BSR in this post. I also want to draw attention to the NyghtOwl read as not being anything original because Nyght was probably the most consensus town read at this point in the thread. I also don't think that this person is partnered with Nyght (although to be honest Nyght is probably just town anyway so this shouldn't matter much).
Quote
I think I now understand why I always seem so suspicious to yall when I play. (Even if I don't seem that suspicious yet for once) My meta seems to be suspicious overall. I am usually somewhat quiet whether I am town or scum. Whether or not there are neutral roles, I am definitely a tightwad when it comes to giving information which is probably partially out of paranoia that I will immediately be targeted by enemies or breaking the rules if I open up. Plus I tend to get rather defensive (maybe not as much as Aragonn though).
A notable part of my meta that is not too hard to confirm by reading through past games is that I tend to avoid wagons unless I agree with them (regardless of which side I am on) or I feel the need to join them for self preservation. Also I tend to vote off of hunches when I make my votes unless the reasons for a vote seem sound and I agree with them enough to vote the same. Seeing how big talking seems to be, I understand why I tend to be suspicious. When asked, I will say I am innocent but can not confirm (who wouldn't in this kind of game).
For talk about the meta of others. I have read a few of the previous games and Gerrick seems to be the meta I feel I have the best understanding of. That meta seems to be always relatively quiet and contributing to discussions and then either someone realizing they are scum or someone taking them out at night :)) (Though this is mostly from looking at Star Wars, Batman, and Game of Thrones).
I may have some idea of Red's meta but he has played quite a few games I have not been in so I am not sure. The Game of Thrones meta I remember was being quiet except to vote and sometimes discussing with their votes being primarily joining wagons (mostly at the Wall when they were scum). I think some good points were made earlier about Red on both sides so I won't vote them. I am a little less suspicious of Minish now but still have a lingering gut suspicion (getting vibes from that Portal Werewolf when we were both scum). Otherwise, there isn't really any new suspicions to note. Though I had forgotten about Wintermoot being quiet earlier for some reason.
For now I will keep my vote in place.
The defence part of this post pinged me at first for being wolfy although I'm not really sure how I feel about it now. I don't think saying that they do wolfy things as town really defends a lot of the things I've noticed so far more.
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Oh hi Kane. Why don't I remember a single one of your posts from D1?
Answer: I'm clearly inept at remember who all is playing. Carry on.
Quote
Don't worry about it Ruguo. There have been quite a few posts so far. Not as much as other games but there was definitely a lot in the posts.
This interaction feels pretty forced. Could see these two as w/w.
Quote
[Well I won't be making as big of a post as I was planning to since I need to wake up earlier this morning. Because of that, this will not be as elaborate as I would hope.
My opposition to both the Michi and Hapi wagons yesterday was because I did not feel either were sus in any way yet. I still do not see them as sus (makes sense for the latter since they were offed and revealed) but there have been some very good points made with the analyses of the wagons and their participants. I am nearing a point where Michi could a target of my vote.
Some of the players I am finding difficult to analyze include: Melehan, Vroendal, Minish, ENE, and Wischland. Vroendal I have a fair bit of suspicion towards but they appear to be defending themselves well. Melehan keeps flip flopping in my view between town and scum leaning with the different analyses and RP/flavor posts. Minish has been quite helpful towards the town but at the same time, I have a nagging suspicion that they are playing a part as scum. Wischland and Alexander Valentine and ENE have not posted enough for me to get a read of them based off what I have read so far. I have a suspicion that somewhere in the group of BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, Red, Vroendal, Minish, Ogun and others I am not thinking of right now; there is at least one Titan. This is very much an unproved gut or vibe suspicion though. I also wonder with Melehan and Vroendal how much of their post liking with the arguments for and against their suspiciousness is indicative of players being onto something with regards to their leanings.
I would say TGN is null with a slight town lean so far. While they keep making posts and votes that are explained away as jokes, something about them makes me think they are not that suspicious so far.
Nyght, Anubhav, and cozmikrae are now in a sort of town lock position for the moment (temporarily with Anubhav since they haven't posted much but they are newly substituted and those posts have me convinced). While I am not convinced of Red's suspiciousness or non suspicion, their defense combined with what I have seen of cozmik are making me think they are a player adjusting to this town setting but fitting in and trying to contribute.
As a summary of these reads.
Town Lock
NyghtOwl (Are you playing us though?)
cozmikrae ()
Anubhav Ghosh (this probably won't last long, I am being generous since they are more of a lean but that remains to be seen)
Town Lean
Wintermoot (somewhat suspicious but you seem to be triggering my gut a little less than the others)
TGN (reminds me of some of my own early games, more chaotic and less suspicious and not triggering my alarms)
Michi (they seem to just be defending themselves and their resigned defense reminds me of a lot of mislynches)
Gerrick (so far they have yet to set off an alarm)
Null or not much of a read.
Wischland (haven't seen much from their posts)
Eastern New England (not as inactive but haven't seen much from their posts)
Ogun of Valeria (same as Melehan)
Melehan (Just don't know)
Ruguo (same as the previous two)
Alexander Valentine (no activity)
Sapphiron (not sure even with I have read and remember)
Red Mones (not as conflicting as the others but somewhat town leading and conflicting)
Scum Lean
BraveSirRobin (the defense did help but I need to reread it some more, really more of a null until that time)
Conflicting Reads (definitely need more analysis since I am seeing signs of both sides or thinking I am seeing them)
Minish (not suspicious in their posts but for some reason they are reminding me of when we were both wolves and seem to be holding something back (though that is normally not suspicious to me))
Doc (I seem to be seeing a mixture of town and scum reads from my mind and others and I am being reminded of The Wall when they were scum)
Vroendal (Appears to simultaneously be scum leaning and town leaning)]
Probably Kane's best post and most of the reads seem fair. I want to point out two that stand out however. The NyghtOwl read has some unnecessary shade for... no reason? Weird, since Kane said they're not suspicious of Nyght at all earlier. The read on BSR is way too weak to justify how strongly Kane is tunneling them.
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This day sure flew by fast and it was not fun (not the phase (though that was a lot to read through and I definitely have not studied it much)). He is/was a similar case to a few of the people who I marked as null or not much to go off of in that there is a bit to go off of, but I have not been able to get a read off of their posts yet.
I could be willing to go along with the Ruguo and Vroendal votes but I am not that suspicious of either one at the moment. I will just vote for the one who I am most suspicious of right now.
Vote BSR
Just the right amount of distancing from Ruguo that I would expect from one of their partners. You can tell he doesn't want to vote for Ruguo here... "go along". If Kane is a wolf, Vro is probably town because I think Kane probably lists one wolf and one town in his list of two.
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I was not actually intending to No Lynch and I did not officially use it since I changed my vote to BSR. My reason for the early defensive posts is just to start preparing a defense early since I usually seem to be suspicious which often results in some wagon danger.
That is true that I only voted for BSR, my reasoning for that was because I did not see agree with the major wagons that were up on those days (I found out how wrong that belief was last day phase but was correct on the first day phase). The only reason I ever join those wagons is because I fully agree or mostly agree and find them suspicious. Otherwise, I vote for someone else who I find suspicious despite it not making a difference. That is just how I vote normally, sorry if that makes you suspicious of me. The reason I have not pressured them in this day phase is because I have not been online for most of this day phase. Yesterday, I simply did not open up this website or log in because I was starting on some assignments and watching some shows. The one post I did make (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156651#msg156651), I think explains well enough why I did not vote at that point in time.
Bold is the wolfiest thing I have read all game. If you're town, you shouldn't be this paranoid about getting lynched as soon as D1 starts. I don't like the explanation for the BSR vote, it only amounts to BSR being suspicious for unknown reasons and not wanting to vote Michi / Hapi (this feels like wolf reasoning, a wolf not wanting to vote either Michi or Hapi because when one dies and is revealed to be town Kane wouldn't want to be suspected for it). Certainly don't think this justifies the BSR tunnel.
Every other post I don't really have anything to comment on.
Kane is in the solid scumread category right now. I don't think Kane and BSR are w/w though, so if one of those flips wolf I would townread the other.
Oh and since I'm under the impression Kane is a newer player, I'll end this with a little advice for them. I would focus on sharing more opinions if you can. I can't tell if you're not because you're trying to avoid conflict or, if town, you're scared of being wrong but the best way to try to ease suspicions on you now isn't to try to justify yourself by telling us how you do this as town too but to do things that are towny like sharing more opinions.
A question for Kane: what do you think of BSR now? Has your case against them got stronger since you first voted them? If not, why are you continuing to vote them if your reasoning is so weak? If you don't feel your reasoning is weak, please expand on it in more detail.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 11:57:06 AM
Vro's voting and unvoting still remains questionable to me , after all , if he turns out as a scum , he will have the best knowledge about lynch consequences . Either way , I have strong gut feelings , that Vro will be lynched in all certainty . Ig everyone would be happy to remove one suspect of the list of scum than keep one hoping him to be innocent . Sorry Vro if this hurts u , but u made a bad name for urself. I hope u understand whatever the play is here , u have drawn far too much suspicion
this post raises !!! in my head
“ye bro sorry if you’re good man you brought it on yourself not because our thinking could be wrong”
This was a decoy sort of post i would say . What i was looking for was retaliation , which unfortunately took place before this post as many cited Vro's chance of being a townie and no one . I looked out for people who did not retaliate , because even after the best defenses and clarifications i stubbornly stood on my words , and said things as if it was fixed that Vro will be lynched by the town . The post did not go very well , as i did not receive counters until now , and here I am justifying why i did it . It was just a measure to clear out some people out of suspicion momentarily
Looking for retaliation makes sense. This post makes me feel a lot better about you. Your late vote on Ruguo at the end pings me, but... ehh?
I had to get my options reduced , I was pretty much sure that Vro was townie by then . However my doubts over the rest cleared up when Ruguo went in hot against Vro at the last moment, which looked like a vain push to me to save himself from getting lynched . And so the late voting . I was probably the 3rd/4th person voting for ruguo . Also voting and unvoting has got some big chaos running already , its better to vote once even if its late😅
I think your vote was way later than that. If I get to rereading the thread, I'll pay more attention to wagonicomics.
Not gonna lie , its possible that i was late , i mentioned in a post above that i did not go through 3-4 pages , because it was getting late for me to vote. Maybe votes were in those pages and i kept those out of my calculation of chronology
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 11:58:59 AM
Lmao make that 5, didn't see the "Me" as in Ruguo. Anyway,So I ask you one more time: Opinions on the following players:Okay, basically Ruguo threw out a list of people he happened to be casting suspicions all over, and seeing he flipped red, there should be at least 1 wolf within the list, at least I do not think an experienced player would go to the extent of allowing Townies to create a core of 6 upon death.
Vro, Me, BSR, Sapph
And optionally: Red, Michi
Vro: Reiterating that I do not see his D1 switch away from Michi as demonstrative of wolfy behaviour. It's simply easier to stay on the wagon and claim nobody would have known better if Michi is town, with additional brownie points if Michi is scum. Plus, he was en-route to being lynched if not for the last minute Melehan finding.
BSR: Singular post, though based on my playing experience with him, in the previous game, he is lurky even when playing as Town. Can't tell.
Sapph: Tsk this guy is very lurky. On that note, I am more inclined to believe Vro who pushed for me (voted for me at some point) as opposed to Ruguo (who kept expressing discomfort but clearly voting another way). And in my defence, it's easier for me to stick to my initial accusation of TGN as opposed to being one of the first few to react immediately and add onto the momentum against Ruguo.
Red: Inclined to see him as Town, going all out against Ruguo as opposed to bussing
Michi: Dipped after surviving D1 but can understand the genuine frustration to potentially being lynched off very early for consecutive games
Therefore, for now,
Vote: BraveSirRobin
This post is interesting. First off, I don't think Sapph had a red check on TGN or he would have been his first vote.
The fact that Sapph pointed this specific list out makes me believe he found it interesting. So a cop finds a list from scum and thinks there would be at least on scum in the list right. Makes me think his n2 check was within this group. So the check would either be red on BSR or green on Vro, Michi, or Red. Potentially on Vro since he was listed first but his reasoning sounds like he didn't really suspect him in the first place so maybe not.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 12:09:04 PM
Theme of the poem, timing of it being posted and the opening lines suggest it does have a meaning I think. Not sure if the positions mentioned in the poem correspond to clues as of yet but will post if I spot something.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 12:10:28 PM
Agree that Sapph is hinting at who he plans to check here.Lmao make that 5, didn't see the "Me" as in Ruguo. Anyway,So I ask you one more time: Opinions on the following players:Okay, basically Ruguo threw out a list of people he happened to be casting suspicions all over, and seeing he flipped red, there should be at least 1 wolf within the list, at least I do not think an experienced player would go to the extent of allowing Townies to create a core of 6 upon death.
Vro, Me, BSR, Sapph
And optionally: Red, Michi
Vro: Reiterating that I do not see his D1 switch away from Michi as demonstrative of wolfy behaviour. It's simply easier to stay on the wagon and claim nobody would have known better if Michi is town, with additional brownie points if Michi is scum. Plus, he was en-route to being lynched if not for the last minute Melehan finding.
BSR: Singular post, though based on my playing experience with him, in the previous game, he is lurky even when playing as Town. Can't tell.
Sapph: Tsk this guy is very lurky. On that note, I am more inclined to believe Vro who pushed for me (voted for me at some point) as opposed to Ruguo (who kept expressing discomfort but clearly voting another way). And in my defence, it's easier for me to stick to my initial accusation of TGN as opposed to being one of the first few to react immediately and add onto the momentum against Ruguo.
Red: Inclined to see him as Town, going all out against Ruguo as opposed to bussing
Michi: Dipped after surviving D1 but can understand the genuine frustration to potentially being lynched off very early for consecutive games
Therefore, for now,
Vote: BraveSirRobin
This post is interesting. First off, I don't think Sapph had a red check on TGN or he would have been his first vote.
The fact that Sapph pointed this specific list out makes me believe he found it interesting. So a cop finds a list from scum and thinks there would be at least on scum in the list right. Makes me think his n2 check was within this group. So the check would either be red on BSR or green on Vro, Michi, or Red. Potentially on Vro since he was listed first but his reasoning sounds like he didn't really suspect him in the first place so maybe not.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 12:19:31 PM
oh for some reason I thought this was a D2 post hmmLmao make that 5, didn't see the "Me" as in Ruguo. Anyway,So I ask you one more time: Opinions on the following players:Okay, basically Ruguo threw out a list of people he happened to be casting suspicions all over, and seeing he flipped red, there should be at least 1 wolf within the list, at least I do not think an experienced player would go to the extent of allowing Townies to create a core of 6 upon death.
Vro, Me, BSR, Sapph
And optionally: Red, Michi
Vro: Reiterating that I do not see his D1 switch away from Michi as demonstrative of wolfy behaviour. It's simply easier to stay on the wagon and claim nobody would have known better if Michi is town, with additional brownie points if Michi is scum. Plus, he was en-route to being lynched if not for the last minute Melehan finding.
BSR: Singular post, though based on my playing experience with him, in the previous game, he is lurky even when playing as Town. Can't tell.
Sapph: Tsk this guy is very lurky. On that note, I am more inclined to believe Vro who pushed for me (voted for me at some point) as opposed to Ruguo (who kept expressing discomfort but clearly voting another way). And in my defence, it's easier for me to stick to my initial accusation of TGN as opposed to being one of the first few to react immediately and add onto the momentum against Ruguo.
Red: Inclined to see him as Town, going all out against Ruguo as opposed to bussing
Michi: Dipped after surviving D1 but can understand the genuine frustration to potentially being lynched off very early for consecutive games
Therefore, for now,
Vote: BraveSirRobin
This post is interesting. First off, I don't think Sapph had a red check on TGN or he would have been his first vote.
The fact that Sapph pointed this specific list out makes me believe he found it interesting. So a cop finds a list from scum and thinks there would be at least on scum in the list right. Makes me think his n2 check was within this group. So the check would either be red on BSR or green on Vro, Michi, or Red. Potentially on Vro since he was listed first but his reasoning sounds like he didn't really suspect him in the first place so maybe not.
I think you’re right about him not having a Red Check on TGN otherwise he could’ve easily started a case.
Isn’t this a bit weird though? Not sure if he had a check on BSR since he votes him while saying his lurking is NAI. It comes off more of as a pressure vote to prompt activity than a Red Check. Do you think it was him just trying to not come off as too aggressive so he wouldn’t get targeted by mafia? Is the can’t tell supposed to mean he can’t tell us his results on him? Why does everything look like a soft :fennekincry:
From that list I get the most confidence in his Red read, he seems pretty certain it wasn’t a bus in it. I’d have to reread D2 for context though.
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 12:24:07 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 12:25:51 PM
I’d also like to point that it’s not 0 scum in a list of 6; it’s at least 1 scum (since Silver prompts a read on himself) in a list of 7.
14.28% of hitting scum from the original Silver list as opposed to a 19.04% natural density from the game setup. If Silver had put another scum it would’ve been 28.56% chance of someone hitting a scum in that list, so I don’t think him not putting a scum there is too absurd.
I’d be still fine hitting a couple people there just in case though. Specially if we’re considering the possibility of Sapph getting a red check on BSR.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 12:29:39 PM
Damn, thought I saw something in the poem but it ended up being BRS instead of BSR. Haha.I’m a bit curious on how you got that lol
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 12:37:06 PM
Damn, thought I saw something in the poem but it ended up being BRS instead of BSR. Haha.I’m a bit curious on how you got that lol
The line that I thought was interesting, "Look at the script! Remember be genuine," is about in the middle of the lines and in the middle backwards I was getting "Look at the [s]cript! [R]emember [b]e genuine,".
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 12:45:56 PM
Players:1. Ruguo
2. Red Mones
3. Vroendal
4. Gerrick5. Adorable Oracle Hapi
6. Anubhav Ghosh7. Sapphiron - Cop
8. Wischland
9. Minish
10. Michi
11. Imaginative Kane
12. BraveSirRobin
13. TGN
14. Wintermoot
15. NyghtOwl
16.Melehan
17. Doc
18. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
19. Alexander Valentine / ExLight
20. cozmikrae
21. Eastern New England / HumanDawn
Final Vote Count:
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
Not voting: Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Michi
From Day 3 EoD, I'm mostly bothered with Cozmikrae for his unvote putting a soft PR at risk and Anubhav Ghosh ignoring the Sapphiron soft claim. ExLight said he didn't necessarily trust the soft PR claim, but his vote was actually on TGN, not Sapphiron, so I can't really get bothered by that (sorry ExLight for the disappointed comment earlier).
I am okay with throwing TGN a bone for voting Sapphiron for survival and in the case that Sapphiron could be scum to help clear him, and he's new at the game too.
I want to know where @Imaginative Kane, @Wintermoot and @Legacy of Smile were doing. For me and Minish we weren't around EoD and I was asleep when the softclaim happened. Phase updates at 7AM and I didn't make an alarm to wake up at that time.
Out of Cozmikrae and Anubhav Ghosh, I don't know which one bothers me more. They were both off plays. Cozmikrae comes off as more experienced than Anubhav to me, so his play is more suspect.
Vote: Cozmikrae
Talking of experience , this is my first werewolf game in my whole history of life , plz bear with me and the total ignorance about the soft claim , i didn't even know what softening up meant :'( .
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 12:51:34 PM
is that true lol
it’s fine dw about it buddy
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 12:55:50 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 01:05:26 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 01:07:57 PM
I'm not gonna lie, I'm hung up on BSR. The fact that I thought he should have been the counter d3 and wasn't, that Sapph originally voted him d3, that Kane has an odd connection voting for him 2 days in a row, that Silver kept pushing him but never voting for him, he was on Vro d2, and then possibly voted TGN for the towncred of not voting Sapph because scum could've just killed him at night anyways.It's very weird to me that there is just so much action revolving around a playet who has done very little at all. If Kane flips wolf, that would clear BSR to me and I think that might be a good direction to go today.
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 01:12:43 PM
How would your reads change depending on his flip?
Gerrick would look a lot better if he flipped scum, TGN as well.
If he flipped town, I'd have to reevaluate because I remember him getting pushed pretty hard for a while but don't remember who all was doing it besides Silver and Kane.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 01:36:09 PM
Less than 2 hours to go, I present an original poem written by yours truly, titled Performance
Life’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
It looks less of a sermon to me and more of a coded poem to give us a name , and not some tips in general , since he won't soften up(Lord knows how happy I am after getting to know what softening means) and simultaneously give us some general tips in the dying moments. In one of the lines he asks us to go in the backward direction and avoid aisles . Aisles can be taken as gaps in theatre and as he asks us to go in backward direction , i checked the names and the number of votes on the players . When I went through the the names , i skipped a name from bottom to top (aisles and backward reference) and then i focused on the centre of the list as per the reference , and the name on whom votes were being cast was Vro. And the name in the middle of the list was Wintermoot (reference to centre). Actors entering and other stuff seems fluff to me
OR
The whole thing is a Shakespearean poetic outburst , which is generally comparing everything to a stage🤣
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 01:39:45 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 01:39:56 PM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 01:42:12 PM
Less than 2 hours to go, I present an original poem written by yours truly, titled Performance
Life’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
It looks less of a sermon to me and more of a coded poem to give us a name , and not some tips in general , since he won't soften up(Lord knows how happy I am after getting to know what softening means) and simultaneously give us some general tips in the dying moments. In one of the lines he asks us to go in the backward direction and avoid aisles . Aisles can be taken as gaps in theatre and as he asks us to go in backward direction , i checked the names and the number of votes on the players . When I went through the the names , i skipped a name from bottom to top (aisles and backward reference) and then i focused on the centre of the list as per the reference , and the name on whom votes were being cast was Vro. And the name in the middle of the list of voterswas Wintermoot (reference to centre). Actors entering and other stuff seems fluff to me
OR
The whole thing is a Shakespearean poetic outburst , which is generally comparing everything to a stage🤣
Thought i wasn't clear enough hence the bolded extra words , is this a EBWOP ?
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 01:44:57 PM
I think there's one thing that people have yet to realise to do with the poem and that's that it probably links to two names instead of just one since Sapph was lynched D3 after having two chances to check people. Judging from Sapph's voting, both checks came up town.
Possible , in fact , i think we must keep the poem out for now , and run as it normally runs . However the quick voting of you and HumanDawn on Sapph with a *wink* statement of ExLight seems off for me , care to explain. It seems except me everything understood softening , so probably everyone guess Sapph was PR
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 01:50:51 PM
The softing was very late into the day. Sapph only softed their role after they had a lot of votes on them and he realised he would probably be lynched if he didn't and by that time he was offline.I think there's one thing that people have yet to realise to do with the poem and that's that it probably links to two names instead of just one since Sapph was lynched D3 after having two chances to check people. Judging from Sapph's voting, both checks came up town.
Possible , in fact , i think we must keep the poem out for now , and run as it normally runs . However the quick voting of you and HumanDawn on Sapph with a *wink* statement of ExLight seems off for me , care to explain. It seems except me everything understood softening , so probably everyone guess Sapph was PR
If you're wondering my genuine reasoning for voting Sapph, I didn't really have a preference of who to lynch out of Sapph and BSR and was considering voting Sapphiron after questioning ExLight about it earlier so I was pretty happy to switch when ExLight (who I read as town) said they supported a Sapph wagon since I didn't think a vote on Kane would be at all useful besides for vanity purposes.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 01:51:23 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 01:52:19 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 01:53:46 PM
It was one vote for Sapph and 3 on TGN when HumanDaen n Legacy voted , after a seemingly fluff post from ExLight.He gave the options: TGN/Sapph. However Sapph wagon equalled TGN wagon after these two votes . ExLight presented the options , but did not impose that anyone should jump on Sapph wagon , he gave options .Small correction to my post: I had no preference between TGN and Sapphiron, not BSR and Sapphiron. Got mixed up on names again, sorry.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 01:54:08 PM
Would it be helpful for you if I quoted the posts where Sapphiron soft claimed seer and bolder specific parts?
That would be helpful , this is my first game , so some help would be good. Maybe(or maybe not) i can have a different assessment then
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 02:02:04 PM
Unfortunately, you either trust me or you don't. I am not going to commit the same sin as I have done last game, allowing over-investment in the game to result in roleclaiming and rule breach. That will have to do to explain for my detached way of playing this round. You guys will find out whether you are right or wrong in lynching me soon enough.
Also, I don't believe it's that implausible for a person to be given the scum role twice in a role. You guys make it sound like Doc wasn't consecutively Wolf before.
I am more useful to Town alive than dead,
Vote: TGN
Bolded are the main hints. They were late into the day after most votes had happened, this is why the later vote shifts after these hints are the suspicious ones.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 02:06:10 PM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 02:07:00 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 02:08:30 PM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 02:08:50 PM
I believe that Anubhav probably genuinely didn't understand those hints, which either suggests that they are town or wolves aren't communicating with each other.
I missed them and only now do I realise what I should be hunting for and how to dissect the info i get , maybe a lesson learnt the hard way considering how the lynch went , but worth learning.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 02:11:40 PM
I believe that Anubhav probably genuinely didn't understand those hints, which either suggests that they are town or wolves aren't communicating with each other.I missed them and only now do I realise what I should be hunting for and how to dissect the info i get , maybe a lesson learnt the hard way considering how the lynch went , but worth learning.
It's more knowing what to look for to be honest. The reason why people are saying it's so obvious is because saying something like "I'm better off alive than dead" is a generally recognisable code for "I'm a power role" in most games so more experienced players probably noticed it out of habit.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 02:14:01 PM
Just outta curiosity, but when you say vote shifts are suspicious do you think votes jumping into Sapph or out of Sapph are worse?Unfortunately, you either trust me or you don't. I am not going to commit the same sin as I have done last game, allowing over-investment in the game to result in roleclaiming and rule breach. That will have to do to explain for my detached way of playing this round. You guys will find out whether you are right or wrong in lynching me soon enough.
Also, I don't believe it's that implausible for a person to be given the scum role twice in a role. You guys make it sound like Doc wasn't consecutively Wolf before.I am more useful to Town alive than dead,
Vote: TGN
Bolded are the main hints. They were late into the day after most votes had happened, this is why the later vote shifts after these hints are the suspicious ones.
I’m a bit on the fence on what to expect from the scumteam in a scenario like this.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 02:23:38 PM
Maybe I’ll give a look on people that wasted votes or voted early and disappeared.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 02:31:46 PM
There are 4 Titan Shifters in total, and 1 of them can only be killed once all the others are dead.I just noticed this. So we have a lynchproof scum? That’s really interesting lol
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 02:34:08 PM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 02:38:57 PM
New tinfoil theory, TGN is the lynchproof scum and that’s why they were overlyconfident D2. A scumbuddy points out that even though he wouldn’t die from a lynch it would still expose him since he’s the only one like that. He then starts panicking at the idea of getting lynched.
Possible . Btw could u shed light on Moot , as i said , i need some help and basically i am using much analysis that comes from others . Also i made a synopsis of Sapph's poem , maybe u can justify whether it fits or not
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 02:40:00 PM
Less than 2 hours to go, I present an original poem written by yours truly, titled Performance
Life’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
It looks less of a sermon to me and more of a coded poem to give us a name , and not some tips in general , since he won't soften up(Lord knows how happy I am after getting to know what softening means) and simultaneously give us some general tips in the dying moments. In one of the lines he asks us to go in the backward direction and avoid aisles . Aisles can be taken as gaps in theatre and as he asks us to go in backward direction , i checked the names and the number of votes on the players . When I went through the the names , i skipped a name from bottom to top (aisles and backward reference) and then i focused on the centre of the list as per the reference , and the name on whom votes were being cast was Vro. And the name in the middle of the list was Wintermoot (reference to centre). Actors entering and other stuff seems fluff to me
OR
The whole thing is a Shakespearean poetic outburst , which is generally comparing everything to a stage🤣
Here , also how can I know who the wolves were in the last game ?
Post by: Laurentus on February 10, 2021, 02:42:13 PM
Less than 2 hours to go, I present an original poem written by yours truly, titled Performance
Life’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
It looks less of a sermon to me and more of a coded poem to give us a name , and not some tips in general , since he won't soften up(Lord knows how happy I am after getting to know what softening means) and simultaneously give us some general tips in the dying moments. In one of the lines he asks us to go in the backward direction and avoid aisles . Aisles can be taken as gaps in theatre and as he asks us to go in backward direction , i checked the names and the number of votes on the players . When I went through the the names , i skipped a name from bottom to top (aisles and backward reference) and then i focused on the centre of the list as per the reference , and the name on whom votes were being cast was Vro. And the name in the middle of the list was Wintermoot (reference to centre). Actors entering and other stuff seems fluff to me
OR
The whole thing is a Shakespearean poetic outburst , which is generally comparing everything to a stage🤣
Here , also how can I know who the wolves were in the last game ?
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0
All the ones in the player list who were marked red, were the wolves of the LotR game.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 02:45:23 PM
Moot didn’t stand out much to me but I liked his posts enough for him to be a townlean to me. I’ll reread them in the afternoon and I’ll give you an updated opinion on it.New tinfoil theory, TGN is the lynchproof scum and that’s why they were overlyconfident D2. A scumbuddy points out that even though he wouldn’t die from a lynch it would still expose him since he’s the only one like that. He then starts panicking at the idea of getting lynched.
Possible . Btw could u shed light on Moot , as i said , i need some help and basically i am using much analysis that comes from others . Also i made a synopsis of Sapph's poem , maybe u can justify whether it fits or not
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 02:47:04 PM
I have a few ideas on what some stuff he said might be referencing but since I’m not sold on my own theories I’m holding onto them for now lmao.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 03:20:25 PM
Just outta curiosity, but when you say vote shifts are suspicious do you think votes jumping into Sapph or out of Sapph are worse?Unfortunately, you either trust me or you don't. I am not going to commit the same sin as I have done last game, allowing over-investment in the game to result in roleclaiming and rule breach. That will have to do to explain for my detached way of playing this round. You guys will find out whether you are right or wrong in lynching me soon enough.
Also, I don't believe it's that implausible for a person to be given the scum role twice in a role. You guys make it sound like Doc wasn't consecutively Wolf before.I am more useful to Town alive than dead,
Vote: TGN
Bolded are the main hints. They were late into the day after most votes had happened, this is why the later vote shifts after these hints are the suspicious ones.
I’m a bit on the fence on what to expect from the scumteam in a scenario like this.
Because of the way this setup is designed (with Sapph being nigh-unkillable if outed as seer thanks to the two defenders) I think wolves would probably be willing to make themselves suspicious in order to push a Sapphiron lynch. If I were a wolf, I would probably be willing to sacrifice the life of my most suspicious teammate in order to lynch the cop under these circumstances.
Nothing was suspicious before the first Sapphiron soft claim post because I think making the wagons 3-3-3 was a fine decision.
Doc - Passable response, they seem to have noticed the soft but not wanted to announce it at the time and made an effort, albeit a reasonably small one.
ExLight - Not much to comment on this one tbh, null response. Relatively few Sapphiron interactions but stuck to other wagons the entire time.
TGN - Passable because they seemed pretty oblivious to it, don't like the Sapph vote but I understand it was self preservation.
Nyght - Good response, also doesn't seem to notice the soft but this time votes for BSR, which is a good look.
Wintermoot - Alarm bells here. This person probably noticed the soft and still voted. Would like to hear their thoughts on why they did this.
Kane - Oh dear. Votes Sapphiron, makes an excuse for not being able to chance his vote if Sapphiron makes a good defence and then dips. I didn't even notice this on my ISO but yikes.
BSR - Honestly the best response in the thread if we're assuming wolves were trying to lynch Sapphiron. Votes for the most viable counterwagon and tries to convince others to. If this person does flip wolf then my entire stance here is probably wrong but this reaction probably made me lean BSR as town.
Vroendal - Was pretty neutral on this until he told Anubhav to unvote, from there the response is very towny.
Anubhav - Covered this earlier but genuinely seems not to have realised what was happening. Read them town from this.
cozmikrae - What have I just witnessed happen here? Was the vote change responsible for Sapph dying. Feels like this response could have been because of wolf teammates asking them to unvote? Seems out of nowhere.
Post by: TGN on February 10, 2021, 04:21:14 PM
I thought it didsorry I just noticed
this might clear Cozmikrae
ExLight said you might be scumbuddies
referring to coz and sapp
so that puts coz as a town lean for me
and afterthought I can null ExLight
It doesn't clear Cozmikrae at all...? What? How is a different player suspecting cozmikrae and Sapphiron as scum partners together, and one of them flipping town, makes the other Town for you?
until I realized ExLight thought me and Coz were buddies
I forgot
but I thought that because if Coz and Sapp were scum buddies and Sapp wasn't scum that would mean Coz would be town
also, I think the poem is the first three letters of the scum, ex: WSH (that was one right?) Wischland
but, most likely it's just a coincidence
Post by: Vroendal on February 10, 2021, 04:36:55 PM
I would also be very disappointed if D3 phase was the second day phase in which we apparently pushed only town, and if I'm town-reading TGN I'm left with BSR. I also find Sapph's strategizing of Silv's list earlier to be interesting, and it led to Sapph originally voting BSR. I dislike how Sapph was then pushed against hard enough to become one of the two main lynch contenders, it makes me think the wolves were trying to save BSR. I don't think it's very likely that Sapph checked BSR however, also considering that Sapph could have pushed him harder so I won't consider that for now.
These things make me suspect BSR just from a strategy standpoint beyond his posts, which I am analyzing now.
I am willing to lynch Kane today as well.
Post by: Vroendal on February 10, 2021, 04:56:59 PM
The Poem
Less than 2 hours to go, I present an original poem written by yours truly, titled Performance
Life’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
Life’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
Whether this is a coincidence or not, I also find it amazing that the poem can make sense backward. -
Backwards Poem
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
No, no, you have it backward,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Life’s a theatre we enter into,
No, no, you have it backward,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Life’s a theatre we enter into,
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 10, 2021, 05:27:58 PM
Feeling a tad bit overwhelmed with the sheer number of posts and feel as though I'm starting to fade away into inactivity. It's a lot a bit intimidating.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 10, 2021, 05:35:14 PM
Post by: Wischland on February 10, 2021, 06:03:58 PM
Also the scum shouldn't have know that Sapph was a power role until he soft-claimed, since they don't have anyone with seer type abilities on their end (right?). They very likely were just going for what they thought was a town mislynch and were probably just working with the usual MO. Perhaps towards the very end after the soft claim they might have switched strategies to avoid getting TGN more votes or add on an extra vote on Sapph or something like that.
Right now I'm thinking TGN might still be a good info lynch. If he turns out to be scum that'll allow us to better analyze the votes from the last day phase.
I'm suspicious of BSR and Kane, basically for the reasons every one else is already citing.
Also kinda sus of Gerrick. On the one hand, his vote shortly after Sapph's on BSR may be an indication that the two were working together as part of a seer army. But Gerrick also didn't do anything to try and save Sapph later when just one vote on TGN would have done the trick. Was he offline at the time? Sorta a weird disparity, so I'm not really sure what's going on there.
Post by: Laurentus on February 10, 2021, 06:10:32 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 06:22:06 PM
:-\
Post by: Red Mones on February 10, 2021, 06:22:32 PM
Basically this:I’m a bit confused as to why people are clearing Nyghts since he’s null-scummy to me, though.
Do we dare taking guesses on who scum might’ve shot that got blocked though? If we’re not fluking there should be stuff in-thread telling us who was more likely to get shot.
Yeah, still interested in hearing why Red Mones top town read Nyghts before.
I think taking guesses is a waste of time, especially considering how big the game is. Whoever they targeted is probably more likely to be a Doctor suspect, which would be easier for them to find and reason knowing who is Town.
Also Nyght was a town read because this is his first game and he seemed to have townie analysis d1 for his first game.
Decent town lean on NyghtOwl btw.
His question about lynching comes from a town mindset to me. It's exactly how I thought when I first starting playing.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 06:33:58 PM
If that’s the main (or even sole) reason that’s really not enough for me to even take him from a null read.
Post by: Wischland on February 10, 2021, 06:41:07 PM
The Seer couldn't build an army, and the defenders are not linked.Oh shoot, really? Well, nevermind then.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 06:42:29 PM
Just found out what this seer army is about and dangI thought it was just some flavour, is there more to it?
:-\
Post by: Wischland on February 10, 2021, 06:50:34 PM
I thought it was just some flavour, is there more to it?Is a seer army not a thing usually? Almost every game in XKI has one. Basically the seer gets a group chat with the town they see where they can coordinate votes and arguments and whatnot. Makes it easier for town to win.
But enough on that, back to the matter at hand.
Post by: Laurentus on February 10, 2021, 06:52:47 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 06:57:17 PM
Oh wow, I've never heard of this being a thing before thanks.I thought it was just some flavour, is there more to it?Is a seer army not a thing usually? Almost every game in XKI has one. Basically the seer gets a group chat with the town they see where they can coordinate votes and arguments and whatnot. Makes it easier for town to win.
But enough on that, back to the matter at hand.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 06:58:21 PM
their seer adds green checked people into a friendly neighborhood apparentlyJust found out what this seer army is about and dangI thought it was just some flavour, is there more to it?
:-\
oh someone answered already
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 07:22:39 PM
Unfortunately, you either trust me or you don't. I am not going to commit the same sin as I have done last game, allowing over-investment in the game to result in roleclaiming and rule breach. That will have to do to explain for my detached way of playing this round. You guys will find out whether you are right or wrong in lynching me soon enough.
Also, I don't believe it's that implausible for a person to be given the scum role twice in a role. You guys make it sound like Doc wasn't consecutively Wolf before.
This last part seems quite interesting . TGN was a wolf in the last game . Sapph was a seer and so I think TGN might be a wolf , because at the dying moments he won't make a comment like that just in general with no indication. And here is the WIFOM , the obvious other wagon that could save him was TGN's , so to divert he could have had said so , not as a genuine scum read . Maybe all he read were townies.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 10, 2021, 07:24:34 PM
Post by: Gerrick on February 10, 2021, 08:02:17 PM
poem for reference
Life’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
If we assume he scanned Melehan Night 1 based on this (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156505#msg156505), and he died on Night 3, that means he had only scanned one other person on Night 2. My guess is that the poem is about this person.
The way it reads to me is that the curtains unfolding are the start of the game, and "quick be at the center" could mean someone jumping out to be in the spotlight. If you go back to the start of the game, you'll notice that this very easily fits Red Mones' first post. "From the sides here comes your fellow actors" could then just mean that the rest of the players entered the game following this. "Look at the script! Remember be genuine": after Red's initial post, he goes for something more serious/helpful. "Audience dislikes the boring or brazen / To tear in merry and grin in dismal" could refer to his behaviour which was neither quiet nor very agressive, while the latter could refer to the amount of emojis he uses. "Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle / No, no, you have it backward" could refer to how he was initially very active ("staying on stage" rather than "reaching for the aisle"), but in Day 3 he went very quiet ("reaching for the aisle" rather than "staying on stage").
This would give me the impression that Sapphiron scanned Red Mones and with the whole acting theme going on that he is scum. HOWEVER, with this post (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156707#msg156707) (which took place pretty early on Day 3 as if he wanted to leave a clue to clear Red), it appears that he's hinting that he's town. Ergo concordantly vis a vis, I believe that Red Mones is town.
Unless somebody else can scrape something from that poem or perhaps plug a different player into it that works out a little clearer.
Post by: Red Mones on February 10, 2021, 08:13:10 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 10, 2021, 08:15:41 PM
This makes sense as wellThe way I'm reading Sapphiron's poem is as if he were in the point of view of one of the people he scanned. Unless there's an encrypted message as others seem to be trying to decode, it seems that there's only one player being talked about in the poem.poem for referenceLife’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 08:16:42 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 10, 2021, 08:18:07 PM
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 10, 2021, 08:20:30 PM
Seeing as I know this very well, and seeing how Sapph acted rather identically in the LoTR game, I'm going to be immediately suspicious of those who are voting for him even though they have Wintreath Werewolf experience. Consequently, my shit list presently is as follows: Kane, Minish, Moot, and TGN.
Crossing this with my calls after the first day, which was for reference:
Vro, NyghtOwl, Melehan, Cozmikrae, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, and Minish, who I initially discounted because I liked the analysis, but now I'm definitely more suspect of because being in two townie kill chains is much more suspect, though not being around for EOD is definitely a valid excuse too, so I can't say still. Coz is also suspicious as hell still, because of the literally 3 MINUTES BEFORE THE DEADLINE unvote.
Vro though, while still oddly focused on killing me, did get someone to unvote Sapph, which would generally be enough to gain my trust, but I'm still unsure because he could still be a wolf coordinating with Coz, especially because he told the guy to UNVOTE rather than just vote TGN, and just accepting a 50-50 of killing the Seer to appear less suspect. TGN voting Sapph out of self preservation was fine at the beginning, but then keeping it after Sapph soft-not-so-soft claimed Seer is also SUPER suspect.
I'm not sure who we should kill right now, but I have a feeling that some people who are actually villagers might be targeting me, so I would not be opposed to a self lynch of myself to prove to them that they are in fact wrong and get them to bark up a correct tree. Then again, the analysis in this game generally has been quite sketch, apart from that of Minish, Smiles and HumanDawn, who I believe is the replacement for ENE, and the immediate posting after being brought in really makes me think town, because if I was brought in as a wolf, I'd definitely try to PM with my other wolves first.
So if we have to kill me for people to do better analysis, I'm all for it, but I'd prefer if not, because analysis this game has been shit and I can't really count on the townies bringing it home rn because I'm not fully confident Minish is town.
Post by: ExLight on February 10, 2021, 08:22:46 PM
buh from my meta on him he's decently townie here
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 08:25:14 PM
I don’t understandA lot of people were thinking the poem spelt out only one name and were looking for a name to be spelled somehow. I strongly believe that Sapphiron got two town results so it would be weird for there to be only one name in the poem. However, the poem somehow linking to only one person would make a lot more sense if Mel was the N1 check because Sapphiron doesn't need to bother to leave that for us as a clue as Mel is dead.
Post by: Vroendal on February 10, 2021, 08:27:54 PM
That's a good post BSR, I was hoping town-aligned you would suss Minish there.
Does the TGN votes tell you anything?
Post by: Gerrick on February 10, 2021, 08:32:20 PM
However, the poem somehow linking to only one person would make a lot more sense if Mel was the N1 check because Sapphiron doesn't need to bother to leave that for us as a clue as Mel is dead.Yeah, this is my assumption.
Vro could have been another option, but he was playing defense most of the time while I was playing more offensively. Just out of curiousity, do you think vro could fit into that?No, Vroendal doesn't really match up in my opinion largely because his first post (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg155842#msg155842) was quite late since he "as of yet ha[d] not much to say".
Also, I'm feeling much better about BSR after his defense of Sapphiron D3 as well as his post above.
Post by: Red Mones on February 10, 2021, 09:19:56 PM
snip
So I'm kicking myself that Sapph was still lynched even after I specifically stated that Sapph pretty much ONLY soft claims power roles when he's miffed at people who still suspect he's a "wolf" or something when he clearly isn't.
Seeing as I know this very well, and seeing how Sapph acted rather identically in the LoTR game, I'm going to be immediately suspicious of those who are voting for him even though they have Wintreath Werewolf experience. Consequently, my shit list presently is as follows: Kane, Minish, Moot, and TGN.
Crossing this with my calls after the first day, which was for reference:
Vro, NyghtOwl, Melehan, Cozmikrae, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, and Minish, who I initially discounted because I liked the analysis, but now I'm definitely more suspect of because being in two townie kill chains is much more suspect, though not being around for EOD is definitely a valid excuse too, so I can't say still. Coz is also suspicious as hell still, because of the literally 3 MINUTES BEFORE THE DEADLINE unvote.
Vro though, while still oddly focused on killing me, did get someone to unvote Sapph, which would generally be enough to gain my trust, but I'm still unsure because he could still be a wolf coordinating with Coz, especially because he told the guy to UNVOTE rather than just vote TGN, and just accepting a 50-50 of killing the Seer to appear less suspect. TGN voting Sapph out of self preservation was fine at the beginning, but then keeping it after Sapph soft-not-so-soft claimed Seer is also SUPER suspect.
I'm not sure who we should kill right now, but I have a feeling that some people who are actually villagers might be targeting me, so I would not be opposed to a self lynch of myself to prove to them that they are in fact wrong and get them to bark up a correct tree. Then again, the analysis in this game generally has been quite sketch, apart from that of Minish, Smiles and HumanDawn, who I believe is the replacement for ENE, and the immediate posting after being brought in really makes me think town, because if I was brought in as a wolf, I'd definitely try to PM with my other wolves first.
So if we have to kill me for people to do better analysis, I'm all for it, but I'd prefer if not, because analysis this game has been shit and I can't really count on the townies bringing it home rn because I'm not fully confident Minish is town.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 10, 2021, 09:21:58 PM
Players:1. Ruguo
2. Red Mones
3. Vroendal
4. Gerrick5. Adorable Oracle Hapi
6. Anubhav Ghosh7. Sapphiron - Cop
8. Wischland
9. Minish
10. Michi
11. Imaginative Kane
12. BraveSirRobin
13. TGN
14. Wintermoot
15. NyghtOwl
16.Melehan
17. Doc
18. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
19. Alexander Valentine / ExLight
20. cozmikrae
21. Eastern New England / HumanDawn
Final Vote Count:
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
Not voting: Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Michi
From Day 3 EoD, I'm mostly bothered with Cozmikrae for his unvote putting a soft PR at risk and Anubhav Ghosh ignoring the Sapphiron soft claim. ExLight said he didn't necessarily trust the soft PR claim, but his vote was actually on TGN, not Sapphiron, so I can't really get bothered by that (sorry ExLight for the disappointed comment earlier).
I am okay with throwing TGN a bone for voting Sapphiron for survival and in the case that Sapphiron could be scum to help clear him, and he's new at the game too.
I want to know where @Imaginative Kane, @Wintermoot and @Legacy of Smile were doing. For me and Minish we weren't around EoD and I was asleep when the softclaim happened. Phase updates at 7AM and I didn't make an alarm to wake up at that time.
Out of Cozmikrae and Anubhav Ghosh, I don't know which one bothers me more. They were both off plays. Cozmikrae comes off as more experienced than Anubhav to me, so his play is more suspect.
Vote: Cozmikrae
I am a she btw.
So... actually this is my lack of experience showing here. I understood that Sapph was softing a role, but as I wasn't voting for him, I wasn't concerned with it. But at the end, I got caught up in sudden flash of intuition and last minute scum reads (Vro, Ghosh and ExLight). Suddenly concerned that I was lynching a townie, I jumped off the boat, forgetting to consider that I was putting a potential power role in danger. Hindsight is 20/20, I won't be doing that again. I completely agree, a vanilla townie TGN should have been sacrificed to save the seer. The whole concept of wagonomics and how my vote factors into influencing a lynch I didn't personally vote for is kinda new to me.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 10, 2021, 09:58:26 PM
Not sure why Vro didn’t tell Anubvh to vote TGN to save Sapph since he clearly noticed what was going on and asking someone to vote their townlean doesn’t really seem like an excuse to let this happen.When Anubhav voted he made a tie, I told him to unvote which put TGN in the majority once again. He asked if he should vote on another wagon and I said yes. I was then indisposed and was unable to see or comment on cozmik's unvote which forced a coinflip until after the lynch had already been decided by Lau.
This is a good explanation of this. This alliance weirded me out a lot.
Well for myself, I know that a few things I want today is to get BSR as a main wagon contender today, have @Legacy of Smiles tell what they found suspicious about Kane, and have @Wintermoot talk more. With that in mind I shall start the vote on
Vote - BraveSirRobin
What is your reasoning for voting for BSR so often?
New tinfoil theory, TGN is the lynchproof scum and that’s why they were overlyconfident D2. A scumbuddy points out that even though he wouldn’t die from a lynch it would still expose him since he’s the only one like that. He then starts panicking at the idea of getting lynched.
This is an interesting theory. I actually forgot that we had a power wolf like that. Even if exposed though, would we be able to do anything once we discovered their identity?
Post by: Minish on February 10, 2021, 10:10:17 PM
Unvote
That's a good post BSR, I was hoping town-aligned you would suss Minish there.
Does the TGN votes tell you anything?
Uh what?
How does him sussing me prove his alignment at all. Especially considering I'm town so if he were scum it would make sense to sus me since others already have.
Also @BraveSirRobin, if you're town you never let yourself get lynched for info. You fight tooth and nail to show your towniness because you're the only person you can trust 100%.
Post by: Doc on February 10, 2021, 10:16:02 PM
Vro though, while still oddly focused on killing me, did get someone to unvote Sapph, which would generally be enough to gain my trust, but I'm still unsure because he could still be a wolf coordinating with Coz, especially because he told the guy to UNVOTE rather than just vote TGN, and just accepting a 50-50 of killing the Seer to appear less suspect. TGN voting Sapph out of self preservation was fine at the beginning, but then keeping it after Sapph soft-not-so-soft claimed Seer is also SUPER suspect.
Point of order; the telling Anubhav to unvote took it from a tie to TGN 1 vote ahead. It was Cozmik's unvote that put it into a tie, and RNGesus got Sapph killed.
I'm still soft sus on Vro but I've grown dramatically less so after that move; if he'd told him to actively vote TGN...that probably actually wouldn't have changed my mind very much, since if TGN flipped scum I'd have considered that a bus play because of how I've been tunnelling, and if he'd flipped town I'd just be confident Vro was town.
In any case, I'm sold on the possibility of TGN being the Armored Titan. On the one hand, if we went for a lynch on him and found out for sure, that'd be a 'waste' of a lynch, since it wouldn't actually work. On the other hand, sure would be nice to have a Sure Thing right now. Especially since I now know that, in the event Vro and TGN are linked, they'd have to be scumbuds, since Lau noted that the Seer never formed a squad and the defenders/'doctors' as y'all seem to prefer calling them aren't in contact.
So, fuck it, Vote: TGN.
Consistency.
This is an interesting theory. I actually forgot that we had a power wolf like that. Even if exposed though, would we be able to do anything once we discovered their identity?I mean, not really, but we'd lower the odds of each other individual player being scum from 3/17 to 1/8. I like that just from a 'being less paranoid' perspective - and based on interaction with other players gives us a better sense of who their scumbuds are.
IMO, if he's really the Armored Titan, knowing who one of the scum is for sure beats not knowing even if it's otherwise a 'waste' of a lynch.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 10, 2021, 10:25:24 PM
I'm kinda at a loss at the moment. I don't have any idea where people stand at the moment and I feel a little useless.
I think for this day phase I'm gonna abstain on voting. I just have no clue what I'm so ng and I need to go back and review things from a more critical standpoint as opposed to going with my gut instincts on things like I have been.
Apologies if this upsets anyone.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 10, 2021, 10:26:21 PM
Yeah, I have messed up a lot these past few days, hopping in the wrong people and missing the soft claim from Saph.
I'm kinda at a loss at the moment. I don't have any idea where people stand at the moment and I feel a little useless.
I think for this day phase I'm gonna abstain on voting. I just have no clue what I'm so ng and I need to go back and review things from a more critical standpoint as opposed to going with my gut instincts on things like I have been.
Apologies if this upsets anyone.
Hopping ON the wrong people and no idea what I'm DOING.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 10, 2021, 10:40:14 PM
Even if you don't want to commit to voting for now, anything like reads will always be helpful and appreciated... even if they're totally wrong.
Post by: Gerrick on February 10, 2021, 11:03:08 PM
*bolding of the word Armored Titan done by meVro though, while still oddly focused on killing me, did get someone to unvote Sapph, which would generally be enough to gain my trust, but I'm still unsure because he could still be a wolf coordinating with Coz, especially because he told the guy to UNVOTE rather than just vote TGN, and just accepting a 50-50 of killing the Seer to appear less suspect. TGN voting Sapph out of self preservation was fine at the beginning, but then keeping it after Sapph soft-not-so-soft claimed Seer is also SUPER suspect.
Point of order; the telling Anubhav to unvote took it from a tie to TGN 1 vote ahead. It was Cozmik's unvote that put it into a tie, and RNGesus got Sapph killed.
I'm still soft sus on Vro but I've grown dramatically less so after that move; if he'd told him to actively vote TGN...that probably actually wouldn't have changed my mind very much, since if TGN flipped scum I'd have considered that a bus play because of how I've been tunnelling, and if he'd flipped town I'd just be confident Vro was town.
In any case, I'm sold on the possibility of TGN being the Armored Titan. On the one hand, if we went for a lynch on him and found out for sure, that'd be a 'waste' of a lynch, since it wouldn't actually work. On the other hand, sure would be nice to have a Sure Thing right now. Especially since I now know that, in the event Vro and TGN are linked, they'd have to be scumbuds, since Lau noted that the Seer never formed a squad and the defenders/'doctors' as y'all seem to prefer calling them aren't in contact.
So, fuck it, Vote: TGN.
Consistency.This is an interesting theory. I actually forgot that we had a power wolf like that. Even if exposed though, would we be able to do anything once we discovered their identity?I mean, not really, but we'd lower the odds of each other individual player being scum from 3/17 to 1/8. I like that just from a 'being less paranoid' perspective - and based on interaction with other players gives us a better sense of who their scumbuds are.
IMO, if he's really the Armored Titan, knowing who one of the scum is for sure beats not knowing even if it's otherwise a 'waste' of a lynch.
Where does it mention that the Armored Titan is the name of the Alpha Werewolf/Godfather? I can't seem to find anywhere in this thread that mentions that/makes that connection. As someone who hasn't watched Attack on Titan, I find it strange that you use this term especially since the only place before your post that the word "armour" is used is in an EoD flavor post by Laurentus that says "a Titan with thick layers of armour," so it wasn't even used in the proper noun form that you are. I can only assume that you learned this term from a PM that either you or one of your scumbuds received before the start of the game. Man, I unfortunately think you really are cursed...
Vote: Doc
Post by: cozmikrae on February 10, 2021, 11:08:32 PM
Yeah, I have messed up a lot these past few days, hopping in the wrong people and missing the soft claim from Saph.
I'm kinda at a loss at the moment. I don't have any idea where people stand at the moment and I feel a little useless.
I think for this day phase I'm gonna abstain on voting. I just have no clue what I'm so ng and I need to go back and review things from a more critical standpoint as opposed to going with my gut instincts on things like I have been.
Apologies if this upsets anyone.
Hopping ON the wrong people and no idea what I'm DOING.
Don't feel too bad. I'm feeling similarly useless after being essentially responsible for the seer's death by my voting indecision.
Post by: Doc on February 10, 2021, 11:21:33 PM
Where does it mention that the Armored Titan is the name of the Alpha Werewolf/Godfather? I can't seem to find anywhere in this thread that mentions that/makes that connection. As someone who hasn't watched Attack on Titan, I find it strange that you use this term especially since the only place before your post that the word "armour" is used is in an EoD flavor post by Laurentus that says "a Titan with thick layers of armour," so it wasn't even used in the proper noun form that you are. I can only assume that you learned this term from a PM that either you or one of your scumbuds received before the start of the game. Man, I unfortunately think you really are cursed...As you pointed out, Lau literally said 'titan with thick layers of armor'. That's the Armored Titan. It stands to reason that among all of the Titans, the one that's least killable is the one with armor. Thus, I assumed the Armored Titan would be the Prince-role (I thought it was 'Godfather' but when I googled it to be sure I was getting the terminology right the Mafia Wiki seemed to suggest 'Prince' was a better fit for 'immune to lynch until (condition)').
Also, are you serious about 'armored' vs 'with...armour' right now? You understand 1) how nouns can become adjectival forms, and 2) how 'armour' is the British/Commonwealth spelling and 'armor' is the American spelling, right?
As for 'how would you know the term/character/whatever', I might not have watched the show, but when you have weeb friends, you pick shit up by osmosis, which is how I know about fucking Rock Lee and Gaara and the 6 different Hokages before Boruto's dad (
This isn't a 'slip' by any means.
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 10, 2021, 11:39:25 PM
Well, you asked lol.I know I do not have a strong case against anyone (most if not all of my arguments might have been WIFOM (though I am not sure what that means even after reading the definition repeatedly)). I do not see that the cases being presented against me are strong either though (really sorry about lynching the seer). My reason for voting for BSR those first two days was because they seemed like the strongest case I had (which was still a very weak case). Sapphiron seemed to have a stronger case against them so I voted for them. While I can understand why my inactivity would seem conveniently timed, I am not lying or joking about my inactivity. I honestly do not have time to read through this thread before each post, especially not today. My suspicion of BSR was not connected to my suspicions of other players (that I remember). I might not vote today since I definitely will not be able to read through all of these posts in time and I do not just want to piggyback off other people's reasons today seeing what happened in the last day phase when I did that. Ruguo being a titan surprised me, and I haven't been able to read through yet to try to figure out what was noticed about him.
Why I scumread Kane:SpoilerQuoteThis is also something I am wondering about after reading through posts on the topic.
For now I will use my No Lynch vote but that will change later on since I am sure some other players will eventually look more suspicious.
Melehan has been triggering some of my suspicion because from what I remember when reading and playing previous Werewolf games, the players who were committed to a role in all of their posts were usually evil or just hiding something. Hapi in the last game proved an exception to the evil players posting in character but I think the Batman game had a few cases like that (and then there are the "generic Batman quotes").
There's nothing specific that pings me in this post but there's not a whole lot accomplished either. Mostly saying they sus Mekehan and then arguing against their sus on Melehan and then saying they want to NL. Seems more likely a wolf makes this post trying to fit in and not post many opinions of their own.QuoteAn updated vote track. As of Vroendal's count it was like this:While this is very useful, it is also actually the post that first pinged me on Kane when I was reading. Seems like IIoA (information instead of analysis) where a beginner wolf tries to look universally helpful by spending a lot of time posting objective facts like the posts below. It's not wolfy that Kane is posting info posts like these, and they are very helpful, but it is wolfy that a good proportion of Kane's posts are completely objective info with no strong opinions of his own.
Hapi 2 (Red, Melehan)
Red 2 (Hapi, cozmikrae)
Michi 2 (Gerrick, Vroendal)
Wintermoot 1 (NyghtOwl)
Doc 1 (Ruguo)
Vroendal 1 (Sapphiron)
Sapphiron 1 (TGN)
Ruguo then voted for Michi to apply some pressure.
Not sure if TGN's post after that was voting for Michi since they had their vote on Sapphiron and then said Unvote: Michi.
NyghtOwl then changed their vote to Hapi thinking Wintermoot was just like voting a third party candidate and citing the potential for chaos.
Then TGN changed their vote to a joke vote on Laurentus. (for editing a post)
Then I made my No Lynch vote (pending more information).
Hapi then changed their vote to cozmikrae. (jumping on a joke wagon but not convincing Hapi why)
Hapi 3 (Red, Melehan, NyghtOwl)
Red 1 (cozmikrae)
Michi 3 (Gerrick, Vroendal, Ruguo)
Vroendal 1 (Sapphiron)
Laurentus 1 (TGN)
cozmikrae 1 (Hapi)
No Lynch 1 (Kane)
I will check this game later but now I am going to focus on school stuff.QuoteWhile I would rather vote No Lynch, I am not actually planning to. I am just using it as a placeholder which I thought I made clear with that wording. Also what information could I hand out without pinning a target on me? It is only D1.
This is a really weird thing for a townsperson to think / say and emphasises the blending in mindset I saw before. I don't see why a townsperson would want to blend in like this.QuoteThe main player I am not at all suspicious of so far is NyghtOwl. I like their original voting justification so for now I will go off of that in case I am not active before the day ends. BSR seems a bit too quiet so far but they haven't been online for a while so that is somewhat excusable. I really don't have any plausible suspicions so far. Just weak suspicions of Robin, Melehan, and Minish. I just have a gut feeling with Minish for some reason. Neither Hapi nor Michi seem scummy to me. Everyone else is generally on the same level as Hapi and Michi, neither suspicious nor not suspicious.
I will vote BraveSirRobin for now since they fit the bill and I wonder if they are doing what I often do: view the forums without logging in.
The argument on BSR is very weak here... so why are they still tunneling this person on D4? Kane even makes an excuse for BSR in this post. I also want to draw attention to the NyghtOwl read as not being anything original because Nyght was probably the most consensus town read at this point in the thread. I also don't think that this person is partnered with Nyght (although to be honest Nyght is probably just town anyway so this shouldn't matter much).QuoteI think I now understand why I always seem so suspicious to yall when I play. (Even if I don't seem that suspicious yet for once) My meta seems to be suspicious overall. I am usually somewhat quiet whether I am town or scum. Whether or not there are neutral roles, I am definitely a tightwad when it comes to giving information which is probably partially out of paranoia that I will immediately be targeted by enemies or breaking the rules if I open up. Plus I tend to get rather defensive (maybe not as much as Aragonn though).
A notable part of my meta that is not too hard to confirm by reading through past games is that I tend to avoid wagons unless I agree with them (regardless of which side I am on) or I feel the need to join them for self preservation. Also I tend to vote off of hunches when I make my votes unless the reasons for a vote seem sound and I agree with them enough to vote the same. Seeing how big talking seems to be, I understand why I tend to be suspicious. When asked, I will say I am innocent but can not confirm (who wouldn't in this kind of game).
For talk about the meta of others. I have read a few of the previous games and Gerrick seems to be the meta I feel I have the best understanding of. That meta seems to be always relatively quiet and contributing to discussions and then either someone realizing they are scum or someone taking them out at night :)) (Though this is mostly from looking at Star Wars, Batman, and Game of Thrones).
I may have some idea of Red's meta but he has played quite a few games I have not been in so I am not sure. The Game of Thrones meta I remember was being quiet except to vote and sometimes discussing with their votes being primarily joining wagons (mostly at the Wall when they were scum). I think some good points were made earlier about Red on both sides so I won't vote them. I am a little less suspicious of Minish now but still have a lingering gut suspicion (getting vibes from that Portal Werewolf when we were both scum). Otherwise, there isn't really any new suspicions to note. Though I had forgotten about Wintermoot being quiet earlier for some reason.
For now I will keep my vote in place.
The defence part of this post pinged me at first for being wolfy although I'm not really sure how I feel about it now. I don't think saying that they do wolfy things as town really defends a lot of the things I've noticed so far more.QuoteOh hi Kane. Why don't I remember a single one of your posts from D1?
Answer: I'm clearly inept at remember who all is playing. Carry on.QuoteDon't worry about it Ruguo. There have been quite a few posts so far. Not as much as other games but there was definitely a lot in the posts.
This interaction feels pretty forced. Could see these two as w/w.Quote[Well I won't be making as big of a post as I was planning to since I need to wake up earlier this morning. Because of that, this will not be as elaborate as I would hope.
My opposition to both the Michi and Hapi wagons yesterday was because I did not feel either were sus in any way yet. I still do not see them as sus (makes sense for the latter since they were offed and revealed) but there have been some very good points made with the analyses of the wagons and their participants. I am nearing a point where Michi could a target of my vote.
Some of the players I am finding difficult to analyze include: Melehan, Vroendal, Minish, ENE, and Wischland. Vroendal I have a fair bit of suspicion towards but they appear to be defending themselves well. Melehan keeps flip flopping in my view between town and scum leaning with the different analyses and RP/flavor posts. Minish has been quite helpful towards the town but at the same time, I have a nagging suspicion that they are playing a part as scum. Wischland and Alexander Valentine and ENE have not posted enough for me to get a read of them based off what I have read so far. I have a suspicion that somewhere in the group of BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, Red, Vroendal, Minish, Ogun and others I am not thinking of right now; there is at least one Titan. This is very much an unproved gut or vibe suspicion though. I also wonder with Melehan and Vroendal how much of their post liking with the arguments for and against their suspiciousness is indicative of players being onto something with regards to their leanings.
I would say TGN is null with a slight town lean so far. While they keep making posts and votes that are explained away as jokes, something about them makes me think they are not that suspicious so far.
Nyght, Anubhav, and cozmikrae are now in a sort of town lock position for the moment (temporarily with Anubhav since they haven't posted much but they are newly substituted and those posts have me convinced). While I am not convinced of Red's suspiciousness or non suspicion, their defense combined with what I have seen of cozmik are making me think they are a player adjusting to this town setting but fitting in and trying to contribute.
As a summary of these reads.
Town Lock
NyghtOwl (Are you playing us though?)
cozmikrae ()
Anubhav Ghosh (this probably won't last long, I am being generous since they are more of a lean but that remains to be seen)
Town Lean
Wintermoot (somewhat suspicious but you seem to be triggering my gut a little less than the others)
TGN (reminds me of some of my own early games, more chaotic and less suspicious and not triggering my alarms)
Michi (they seem to just be defending themselves and their resigned defense reminds me of a lot of mislynches)
Gerrick (so far they have yet to set off an alarm)
Null or not much of a read.
Wischland (haven't seen much from their posts)
Eastern New England (not as inactive but haven't seen much from their posts)
Ogun of Valeria (same as Melehan)
Melehan (Just don't know)
Ruguo (same as the previous two)
Alexander Valentine (no activity)
Sapphiron (not sure even with I have read and remember)
Red Mones (not as conflicting as the others but somewhat town leading and conflicting)
Scum Lean
BraveSirRobin (the defense did help but I need to reread it some more, really more of a null until that time)
Conflicting Reads (definitely need more analysis since I am seeing signs of both sides or thinking I am seeing them)
Minish (not suspicious in their posts but for some reason they are reminding me of when we were both wolves and seem to be holding something back (though that is normally not suspicious to me))
Doc (I seem to be seeing a mixture of town and scum reads from my mind and others and I am being reminded of The Wall when they were scum)
Vroendal (Appears to simultaneously be scum leaning and town leaning)]
Probably Kane's best post and most of the reads seem fair. I want to point out two that stand out however. The NyghtOwl read has some unnecessary shade for... no reason? Weird, since Kane said they're not suspicious of Nyght at all earlier. The read on BSR is way too weak to justify how strongly Kane is tunneling them.QuoteThis day sure flew by fast and it was not fun (not the phase (though that was a lot to read through and I definitely have not studied it much)). He is/was a similar case to a few of the people who I marked as null or not much to go off of in that there is a bit to go off of, but I have not been able to get a read off of their posts yet.
I could be willing to go along with the Ruguo and Vroendal votes but I am not that suspicious of either one at the moment. I will just vote for the one who I am most suspicious of right now.
Vote BSR
Just the right amount of distancing from Ruguo that I would expect from one of their partners. You can tell he doesn't want to vote for Ruguo here... "go along". If Kane is a wolf, Vro is probably town because I think Kane probably lists one wolf and one town in his list of two.QuoteI was not actually intending to No Lynch and I did not officially use it since I changed my vote to BSR. My reason for the early defensive posts is just to start preparing a defense early since I usually seem to be suspicious which often results in some wagon danger.
That is true that I only voted for BSR, my reasoning for that was because I did not see agree with the major wagons that were up on those days (I found out how wrong that belief was last day phase but was correct on the first day phase). The only reason I ever join those wagons is because I fully agree or mostly agree and find them suspicious. Otherwise, I vote for someone else who I find suspicious despite it not making a difference. That is just how I vote normally, sorry if that makes you suspicious of me. The reason I have not pressured them in this day phase is because I have not been online for most of this day phase. Yesterday, I simply did not open up this website or log in because I was starting on some assignments and watching some shows. The one post I did make (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156651#msg156651), I think explains well enough why I did not vote at that point in time.
Bold is the wolfiest thing I have read all game. If you're town, you shouldn't be this paranoid about getting lynched as soon as D1 starts. I don't like the explanation for the BSR vote, it only amounts to BSR being suspicious for unknown reasons and not wanting to vote Michi / Hapi (this feels like wolf reasoning, a wolf not wanting to vote either Michi or Hapi because when one dies and is revealed to be town Kane wouldn't want to be suspected for it). Certainly don't think this justifies the BSR tunnel.
Every other post I don't really have anything to comment on.
Kane is in the solid scumread category right now. I don't think Kane and BSR are w/w though, so if one of those flips wolf I would townread the other.
Oh and since I'm under the impression Kane is a newer player, I'll end this with a little advice for them. I would focus on sharing more opinions if you can. I can't tell if you're not because you're trying to avoid conflict or, if town, you're scared of being wrong but the best way to try to ease suspicions on you now isn't to try to justify yourself by telling us how you do this as town too but to do things that are towny like sharing more opinions.
A question for Kane: what do you think of BSR now? Has your case against them got stronger since you first voted them? If not, why are you continuing to vote them if your reasoning is so weak? If you don't feel your reasoning is weak, please expand on it in more detail.
It seems like you are going to be suspicious no matter how I defend myself seeing your responses to my regular playstyle so I will just say that I hope you don't waste a vote lynching me. After getting the seer lynched, I have lost a lot of my hope that I actually can help. Sorry for having a suspicious playstyle.
Post by: Gerrick on February 10, 2021, 11:43:56 PM
Fair point that you might've heard the term from friends, but personally I would not have guessed that the armored one would be the unlynchable one (probably rather the giant titan since he's all over every AoT promo). Maybe that's just me or maybe it's a slip.
I'll keep my vote on you for now while I look for others to target (currently still hung up on Minish and cozmikrae from my last reads list).
Post by: Laurentus on February 10, 2021, 11:51:06 PM
Post by: Doc on February 10, 2021, 11:53:26 PM
(Weird, I thought the Godfather was bulletproof.)Yeah, but it seemed to suggest that said bulletproof nature was 'against getting vigged', rather than 'against getting lynched', which is why 'Prince' seemed like a better fit.
The more you know, I guess.
Post by: Gerrick on February 11, 2021, 12:27:19 AM
Unvote
Post by: Gerrick on February 11, 2021, 12:28:04 AM
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 11, 2021, 12:32:27 AM
UnvoteI haven't done anything with the TGN votes, because it's hard to glean information about, especially considering that halfway it was just a "prevent Sapph from dying" vote, which was expedient. I'm not sure who first put suspicion on TGN, but I would like TGN to defend the Sapph vote or otherwise explain his situation.
That's a good post BSR, I was hoping town-aligned you would suss Minish there.
Does the TGN votes tell you anything?
The more we get suspicious people to talk the more information we can extract to make determinations. People are generally quite poor at lying logic, which is certainly one of the things which makes online werewolf something that you have to micro sometimes.
Also @BraveSirRobin, if you're town you never let yourself get lynched for info. You fight tooth and nail to show your towniness because you're the only person you can trust 100%.
Ahh yes see, while I'm town, I do generally tend to play as a lazy town, find persons or a group of persons that I trust the logic of, and lay low to try and be of greater use in the later game. That being the normal case, I've been flung into a situation here where I have to provide logic earlier myself because things have just gone downhill since the Ruguo lynch.
Well Werewolf aside, I had a rather time crunched week, but I find myself with a great deal more freetime this week ;pThis is nice BSR. Where were you D1 and 2? :PsnipSo I'm kicking myself that Sapph was still lynched even after I specifically stated that Sapph pretty much ONLY soft claims power roles when he's miffed at people who still suspect he's a "wolf" or something when he clearly isn't.
Seeing as I know this very well, and seeing how Sapph acted rather identically in the LoTR game, I'm going to be immediately suspicious of those who are voting for him even though they have Wintreath Werewolf experience. Consequently, my shit list presently is as follows: Kane, Minish, Moot, and TGN.
Crossing this with my calls after the first day, which was for reference:
Vro, NyghtOwl, Melehan, Cozmikrae, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, and Minish, who I initially discounted because I liked the analysis, but now I'm definitely more suspect of because being in two townie kill chains is much more suspect, though not being around for EOD is definitely a valid excuse too, so I can't say still. Coz is also suspicious as hell still, because of the literally 3 MINUTES BEFORE THE DEADLINE unvote.
Vro though, while still oddly focused on killing me, did get someone to unvote Sapph, which would generally be enough to gain my trust, but I'm still unsure because he could still be a wolf coordinating with Coz, especially because he told the guy to UNVOTE rather than just vote TGN, and just accepting a 50-50 of killing the Seer to appear less suspect. TGN voting Sapph out of self preservation was fine at the beginning, but then keeping it after Sapph soft-not-so-soft claimed Seer is also SUPER suspect.
I'm not sure who we should kill right now, but I have a feeling that some people who are actually villagers might be targeting me, so I would not be opposed to a self lynch of myself to prove to them that they are in fact wrong and get them to bark up a correct tree. Then again, the analysis in this game generally has been quite sketch, apart from that of Minish, Smiles and HumanDawn, who I believe is the replacement for ENE, and the immediate posting after being brought in really makes me think town, because if I was brought in as a wolf, I'd definitely try to PM with my other wolves first.
So if we have to kill me for people to do better analysis, I'm all for it, but I'd prefer if not, because analysis this game has been shit and I can't really count on the townies bringing it home rn because I'm not fully confident Minish is town.
Also before I can vote, I would really appreciate @Wintermoot @Minish @Imaginative_Kane and @TGN to give me why they didn't switch off of/leave Sapph once the rather not soft claim of seer was made, and also why they voted for Sapph in the first place. Thanks!
Post by: Doc on February 11, 2021, 12:33:10 AM
Sorry about that, Doc. :-[Eh, I got a little more hostile than I probably needed to in the response, so please accept a sorry from me too. No harm no foul though.
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 11, 2021, 12:35:17 AM
Post by: TGN on February 11, 2021, 01:00:50 AM
I voted Sapp (say it with me) to keep me alive, ok?
Post by: TGN on February 11, 2021, 01:02:12 AM
I overlooked the last part
I didn't know he was seer
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 11, 2021, 02:46:14 AM
Players:1. Ruguo
2. Red Mones
3. Vroendal
4. Gerrick5. Adorable Oracle Hapi
6. Anubhav Ghosh7. Sapphiron - Cop
8. Wischland
9. Minish
10. Michi
11. Imaginative Kane
12. BraveSirRobin
13. TGN
14. Wintermoot
15. NyghtOwl
16.Melehan
17. Doc
18. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
19. Alexander Valentine / ExLight
20. cozmikrae
21. Eastern New England / HumanDawn
Final Vote Count:
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
Not voting: Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Michi
From Day 3 EoD, I'm mostly bothered with Cozmikrae for his unvote putting a soft PR at risk and Anubhav Ghosh ignoring the Sapphiron soft claim. ExLight said he didn't necessarily trust the soft PR claim, but his vote was actually on TGN, not Sapphiron, so I can't really get bothered by that (sorry ExLight for the disappointed comment earlier).
I am okay with throwing TGN a bone for voting Sapphiron for survival and in the case that Sapphiron could be scum to help clear him, and he's new at the game too.
I want to know where @Imaginative Kane, @Wintermoot and @Legacy of Smile were doing. For me and Minish we weren't around EoD and I was asleep when the softclaim happened. Phase updates at 7AM and I didn't make an alarm to wake up at that time.
Out of Cozmikrae and Anubhav Ghosh, I don't know which one bothers me more. They were both off plays. Cozmikrae comes off as more experienced than Anubhav to me, so his play is more suspect.
Vote: Cozmikrae
I am a she btw.
So... actually this is my lack of experience showing here. I understood that Sapph was softing a role, but as I wasn't voting for him, I wasn't concerned with it. But at the end, I got caught up in sudden flash of intuition and last minute scum reads (Vro, Ghosh and ExLight). Suddenly concerned that I was lynching a townie, I jumped off the boat, forgetting to consider that I was putting a potential power role in danger. Hindsight is 20/20, I won't be doing that again. I completely agree, a vanilla townie TGN should have been sacrificed to save the seer. The whole concept of wagonomics and how my vote factors into influencing a lynch I didn't personally vote for is kinda new to me.
I noticed a few people have misgendered you at this point and I have a suggestion for everyone. If you don't know the person well enough to know their gender then it would probably be best to use neutral pronouns like they/them.
Post by: TGN on February 11, 2021, 03:33:37 AM
much agreePlayers:1. Ruguo
2. Red Mones
3. Vroendal
4. Gerrick5. Adorable Oracle Hapi
6. Anubhav Ghosh7. Sapphiron - Cop
8. Wischland
9. Minish
10. Michi
11. Imaginative Kane
12. BraveSirRobin
13. TGN
14. Wintermoot
15. NyghtOwl
16.Melehan
17. Doc
18. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
19. Alexander Valentine / ExLight
20. cozmikrae
21. Eastern New England / HumanDawn
Final Vote Count:
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
Not voting: Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Michi
From Day 3 EoD, I'm mostly bothered with Cozmikrae for his unvote putting a soft PR at risk and Anubhav Ghosh ignoring the Sapphiron soft claim. ExLight said he didn't necessarily trust the soft PR claim, but his vote was actually on TGN, not Sapphiron, so I can't really get bothered by that (sorry ExLight for the disappointed comment earlier).
I am okay with throwing TGN a bone for voting Sapphiron for survival and in the case that Sapphiron could be scum to help clear him, and he's new at the game too.
I want to know where @Imaginative Kane, @Wintermoot and @Legacy of Smile were doing. For me and Minish we weren't around EoD and I was asleep when the softclaim happened. Phase updates at 7AM and I didn't make an alarm to wake up at that time.
Out of Cozmikrae and Anubhav Ghosh, I don't know which one bothers me more. They were both off plays. Cozmikrae comes off as more experienced than Anubhav to me, so his play is more suspect.
Vote: Cozmikrae
I am a she btw.
So... actually this is my lack of experience showing here. I understood that Sapph was softing a role, but as I wasn't voting for him, I wasn't concerned with it. But at the end, I got caught up in sudden flash of intuition and last minute scum reads (Vro, Ghosh and ExLight). Suddenly concerned that I was lynching a townie, I jumped off the boat, forgetting to consider that I was putting a potential power role in danger. Hindsight is 20/20, I won't be doing that again. I completely agree, a vanilla townie TGN should have been sacrificed to save the seer. The whole concept of wagonomics and how my vote factors into influencing a lynch I didn't personally vote for is kinda new to me.
I noticed a few people have misgendered you at this point and I have a suggestion for everyone. If you don't know the person well enough to know their gender then it would probably be best to use neutral pronouns like they/them.
or go to the account of the person you want a pronoun of then look at what is says
that's what I have been doing
Post by: Minish on February 11, 2021, 09:05:40 AM
I didn't switch off Sapph because I was asleep before he softed and til after eod. So I didn't know until it had already happened and he had been lynched.
I originally voted Sapph due to looking at Silver's posts. He did some light suspicion of him that seemed like scum placing suspicion on a scumbud in a way to later back off, especially because he never committed to fully suspecting him or voting him. I also thought that you and Sapph were maybe unaligned, because Silver similarly talked about you in a distancing way (pushing that he really wanted to vote you but never did). So I thought one of you would be a scumbud Silver was trying to distance from. And you already had a growing wagon on you so I wanted a Sapph counterwagon.
Post by: Michi on February 11, 2021, 09:13:31 AM
I noticed a few people have misgendered you at this point and I have a suggestion for everyone. If you don't know the person well enough to know their gender then it would probably be best to use neutral pronouns like they/them.
I'll second this. It's very easy to fall in the trap of assuming every member is one gender or another because of how their posts/names/avatars may be...but it's always better to assume that you're wrong rather than right on your guess. When you don't know for absolute certain (aka: they haven't told you what pronouns they identify as), it's much better to just stay with the neutral pronouns so that you don't accidentally misgender them.
And apologies for not posting yet this phase. Between prepping Spyfall and some regional matters that needed some attention, it's kinda ate away my motivation to really be on despite being (falsely) told on Discord that votes were piling on me to prod me to post in here.
I'll post something more game related in a moment.
Post by: Minish on February 11, 2021, 09:19:14 AM
Red
Anubhav
Nyght
Legacy
Ex
Human Dawn
Vro
Michi (just because he's been so inactive he may be modkilled)
So that leaves these people.
Gerrick
Wischland
Imaginative Kane
BraveSirRobin
TGN
Wintermoot
Doc
cozmikrae
Doc is someone I really want to town read but I'm starting to get some iffy vibes from him.
Cozmikrea I had
been town reading til last eod. But she's new to forum mafia so I don't know how to read her actions from eod3.
Wintermoot I'm just at a complete null on.
Similarly for Gerrick.
Which leaves Wischland, TGN, BSR, and Kane.
If y'all want to vote Kane like I'm not upset about that. I originally thought he was a bit scummy, but then I saw something that made me question myself. But I could just be reading into things too much.
BSR has picked up recently, but I don't know if it's genuine town "why did you lynch cop" or if it's scum who thinks they can now push the heat off of themselves by saying "I tried not to lynch the obvious power role, look at me I'm definitely town".
Wisch is still pinging me for no other reason than feeling different than last game and Silver's lone comment on them that felt odd.
TGN at this point should almost be lynched to get him out of the question because I know discussion is always going to end back up on him.
Post by: ExLight on February 11, 2021, 09:48:20 AM
I saw it too.
If y'all want to vote Kane like I'm not upset about that. I originally thought he was a bit scummy, but then I saw something that made me question myself. But I could just be reading into things too much.
Post by: ExLight on February 11, 2021, 09:54:40 AM
heh, can you blame for wanting to see your reaction
And apologies for not posting yet this phase. Between prepping Spyfall and some regional matters that needed some attention, it's kinda ate away my motivation to really be on despite being (falsely) told on Discord that votes were piling on me to prod me to post in here.
Post by: Minish on February 11, 2021, 11:01:46 AM
I saw it too.
If y'all want to vote Kane like I'm not upset about that. I originally thought he was a bit scummy, but then I saw something that made me question myself. But I could just be reading into things too much.
What day was the day what you saw on? Or if you wanna say, what page.
Because I'm curious if it's the same thing.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 11, 2021, 11:11:25 AM
Post by: Michi on February 11, 2021, 11:18:26 AM
First, I didn't even realize Sapph posted a poem. The only problem with that is that there's 5000 different ways it could be interpreted. It could be the first letters having some secondary meaning, the poem could have a hidden meaning within the lines, it could be a complete allusion to a singular person based on meta-purposes to implicate them, etc...
And the problem with that is that unless we can find the completely infallible clear-cut meaning, we could be wrongfully speculating on people that weren't meant to be speculated on. I'd say still see what comes about it, but to be careful about speculating too hard and throwing arguments if you're not 100% sure so that we don't accidentally go after the wrong person that the poem wasn't intending to implicate.
Right now, I'm still very skeptical about the scum-nature of TGN. He's had some questionable moments, but I'm still in the mindset that I just don't think he'd be a wolf twice in his first two games. Hell even the guy who usually rolls it because he has weird luck had 2 games in between his first wolf role (and first game in general) and the next time he was rolled (first time in WWXI, second time in XIV.2). Is it always possible to happen to a new player? Absolutely, but I think the statistic is so incredibly low that I don't think it's a possibility.
Moot so far reads to me like I'm used to seeing from him in more of a town role, if I'm being honest. From my experience in hosting games with him as a wolf, he's usually much more withdrawn and away from the game when he's a wolf...whereas he's usually more active and pushing arguments even when he's more of a town (aka pretty much a reverse of how I can be in both scenarios).
I do also want to hear more on the concrete feeling people seem to have on Nyght. I get wanting to have a free pass for a new player throughout, but I can easily name at least 2+ players who started their first WW game as Scum (and actually did previously...TGN and Doc. Lumenland from 6 was another one), so the idea that a new player is an obvious town clear just makes zero sense to me. Like, I'm willing to go with his arguments being reason that he could be town (since they've been pretty solid), but the immediate new = town thing just doesn't sit well with me since we have new player history that completely contradicts that argument.
As for BSR, this feels about like the normal time that he picks up a bit more in games. From what I can remember hosting (though I'll admit I have the memory of a gnat), he's usually pretty quiet the first couple of day phases, and then starts to pick up with his posting as the days progress. That part (again how I remember it) is usually consistent between both his scum and townie sides.
In all honesty, I'm not really sure which road to tackle since I haven't been paying the greatest attention to pick up on any specific tells that stand out to me. But I also realize that I have to vote this phase or otherwise get modkilled.
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TGN at this point should almost be lynched to get him out of the question because I know discussion is always going to end back up on him.
That's kind of an oof post. Unless you legit believe that he's a Titan and want to back that up with a lynch, saying along the lines of "he should be lynched because he'll just be a continued conversation point otherwise" is kind of counterproductive. If you believe he's townie, rather than suggesting just throwing him out you should be working on convincing people why you think he's town so that we can move on to the actual suspicious players.
If Hapi is any indication since she's normally been town, voting someone out when they become a talking point because of their unusual play style doesn't usually work in a way that favors town...especially when it's a newer player that isn't established in their gameplay enough (which is kind of weird to see people town-clearing 1st-game players, but scum-leaning on someone in their 2nd-game even though they rolled wolf last game).
And to end this thread, onto BSR:
I've been reading though, and something about the way he's been posting has been bothering me...though I can't exactly place what it is, but it's been giving me some weird vibes. Part of it is probably because of him saying this:
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So I'm kicking myself that Sapph was still lynched even after I specifically stated that Sapph pretty much ONLY soft claims power roles when he's miffed at people who still suspect he's a "wolf" or something when he clearly isn't.
And from what I dug up, I never saw him actually say that.
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I'm going to Vote: TGN
Not only to semi protect Sapph, who appears to be doing some pretty good hinting here, but also because Vro wants to defend TGN, which makes me suspicious, because Ruguo was scum and because Hapi was innocent. Do we not remember that Ruguo was trying to tie Hapi and myself and Sapph together, and then Hapi was flipped and Ruguo flipped scum? That should be obvious enough. Maybe I'm relying too much on Valeria being similar here, but I definitely don't think that we should vote off Sapph right now, especially if the power role is in play as a possibility
Also as far as defending myself from a mention which is now like ages ago, Vro and Ruguo were anti me the whole game basically, which makes me really think that they're scum and working together, which I think is an appropriate conclusion from my situation. *shrug*
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LOL its been interesting to me as well. Perhaps they think I'm a better Laurentus Lite than I am in reality hahaha. I mean, either way, it')) backfire on them eventually so I dont know what they're doing? There are way too many townies for that not to occur...
Ideally we'd be voting Vro and not saving Sapph by lynching TGN, but I definitely don't like the last minute moves from people who are very vocal. That generally screams wolves dominating the narrative to me, which tends to make me more readily scum lean people who are dominating the conversation and making sweeping accusations against widely varying sets of players. Hilariously, my suspect list remains basically the same set of people it was after Hapi was killed, and is only more confidently Vro because he's really attacking me for... Not being active enough?
Activity, apart from the rare exception, is generally the wolves, and seeing that Ruguo flipped red, he's probably smart enough to have created a coordinated attack at the beginning with each wolf being a separate big personality, which is generally a good strategy. That's generally what I'd do if I were a wolf, and then painting anyone who objects to my questioning as suspicious or irrelevant as paranoid and wolfish. Which works quite well quite often
Sure, he mentions Sapph a few times about him doing some hints, but nowhere does he say anything about Sapph only does claims when he's miffed at people crying wolf on him. And he even claimed that his reason for voting TGN was to "Semi" save Sapph, but also because Vro wanted to defend TGN.
That coupled his "Ideally, we'd be voting Vro and not saving Sapph by lynching TGN" just really doesn't sit well with me, especially after he just got done saying that Sapph is a power role, so saving Sapph would pretty much be on the top of the list if he thought Sapph was genuinely softing a power role because of his reasoning he claimed to have stated in the first quote.
Post by: Michi on February 11, 2021, 11:18:51 AM
Vote: BraveSirRobin
Post by: ExLight on February 11, 2021, 11:29:51 AM
Last page. It might be better to point out, but I don’t really wanna risk clearing someone I shouldn’t.I saw it too.
If y'all want to vote Kane like I'm not upset about that. I originally thought he was a bit scummy, but then I saw something that made me question myself. But I could just be reading into things too much.
What day was the day what you saw on? Or if you wanna say, what page.
Because I'm curious if it's the same thing.
Post by: Minish on February 11, 2021, 11:37:57 AM
The TGN not being scum because he wouldn't likely get scum his first two games in a row just isn't really a good argument. I keep seeing people say that and I don't know if it's because y'all believe that rng wouldn't do that or if y'all will mess with rng to prevent stuff like that. But it is very possible. There are quite a few people on ZD who are known for having rolled scum their first three or four games. It definitely happens and isn't uncommon. I believe I rolled town my first 11 games before I finally rolled scum.
As for Nyght, the argument isn't that a new player wouldn't be scum. The argument is that Nyght's posts and reactions right off felt like they came from new town and not new scum. Specifically him bringing up the no lynching made me feel like he was town because it's exactly how I thought when I was town and first started playing. He feels like he's by himself to me and not working with a team.
Also as for my post that you quoted about TGN, I do not believe him to be town. Also not sold on him being scum. The post isn't really as yikes as it seems. TGN is in PoE, and while I could go either way on him, he could be a good lynch because 1) He's been the counterwagon twice now and has survived, which is interesting and 2) He gives info on other players. I still think TGN could be scum for the possible distance coaching from Silver. But I can also see some towniness from him. I don't want every day phase to be a wagon starts on TGN, then a second wagon picks up and TGN is saved. That just puts us in the same spot over and over again.
Post by: Minish on February 11, 2021, 11:40:02 AM
Last page. It might be better to point out, but I don’t really wanna risk clearing someone I shouldn’t.I saw it too.
If y'all want to vote Kane like I'm not upset about that. I originally thought he was a bit scummy, but then I saw something that made me question myself. But I could just be reading into things too much.
What day was the day what you saw on? Or if you wanna say, what page.
Because I'm curious if it's the same thing.
Oh, yeah mine is something different from d2.
Post by: ExLight on February 11, 2021, 11:41:14 AM
I think you're missing a few points in a TGN lynch. If they keep stealing the spotlight but never get lynched the amount of information we get in each Day Phase becomes limited or straight up abysmal. Not only that, but even if they're Town, would you rather keep someone like them that is unstable as them at -Lo, specially now that Lau established that votes can't be moved once cast then? It's begging to have them mislynched or having them mislynch someone before proper discussion.QuoteTGN at this point should almost be lynched to get him out of the question because I know discussion is always going to end back up on him.
That's kind of an oof post. Unless you legit believe that he's a Titan and want to back that up with a lynch, saying along the lines of "he should be lynched because he'll just be a continued conversation point otherwise" is kind of counterproductive. If you believe he's townie, rather than suggesting just throwing him out you should be working on convincing people why you think he's town so that we can move on to the actual suspicious players.
If Hapi is any indication since she's normally been town, voting someone out when they become a talking point because of their unusual play style doesn't usually work in a way that favors town...especially when it's a newer player that isn't established in their gameplay enough (which is kind of weird to see people town-clearing 1st-game players, but scum-leaning on someone in their 2nd-game even though they rolled wolf last game).
Some players are more useful to scum as Town, and they have to be dealt with as soon as possible, usually via a cop check (but our cop died because people keep defending their ass yeet) or killing. Right now when the odds of a mislynch are extremely high, getting rid of weaker players that won't get nightkilled but give massive amount of information through interactions is way better than you'd think, specially with limited role information to be obtained.
This all of course if they really are town, which they might not even be.
Post by: ExLight on February 11, 2021, 11:54:00 AM
Well, this is awkward.Last page. It might be better to point out, but I don’t really wanna risk clearing someone I shouldn’t.I saw it too.
If y'all want to vote Kane like I'm not upset about that. I originally thought he was a bit scummy, but then I saw something that made me question myself. But I could just be reading into things too much.
What day was the day what you saw on? Or if you wanna say, what page.
Because I'm curious if it's the same thing.
Oh, yeah mine is something different from d2.
I wonder if they lead to the same thing.
Also, what do you think of the tinfoil of TGN getting overly confident due to them possibly being the unlynchable scum? Do you think it's viable?
It still weirds me out a lot that they were willing to even self-vote, but after a motivational talk from Silver who flipped scum they decided they're going to do everything to self-preserve. I feel like this theory kinda fills that hole.
Post by: Minish on February 11, 2021, 11:56:49 AM
Well, this is awkward.Last page. It might be better to point out, but I don’t really wanna risk clearing someone I shouldn’t.I saw it too.
If y'all want to vote Kane like I'm not upset about that. I originally thought he was a bit scummy, but then I saw something that made me question myself. But I could just be reading into things too much.
What day was the day what you saw on? Or if you wanna say, what page.
Because I'm curious if it's the same thing.
Oh, yeah mine is something different from d2.
I wonder if they lead to the same thing.
Also, what do you think of the tinfoil of TGN getting overly confident due to them possibly being the unlynchable scum? Do you think it's viable?
It still weirds me out a lot that they were willing to even self-vote, but after a motivational talk from Silver who flipped scum they decided they're going to do everything to self-preserve. I feel like this theory kinda fills that hole.
It could lead to the same thing for different reasons yeah.
And I dunno, I don't necessarily buy it. I think it's just how TGN is and don't think he was influenced by his role. But like, it's not impossible.
Post by: Michi on February 11, 2021, 12:01:24 PM
@Michi
The TGN not being scum because he wouldn't likely get scum his first two games in a row just isn't really a good argument. I keep seeing people say that and I don't know if it's because y'all believe that rng wouldn't do that or if y'all will mess with rng to prevent stuff like that. But it is very possible. There are quite a few people on ZD who are known for having rolled scum their first three or four games. It definitely happens and isn't uncommon. I believe I rolled town my first 11 games before I finally rolled scum.
I can't speak for how the other hosts do their player choices, but for me personally it's the latter so that people can get a chance to be a townie or power role for their second game if they're an absolutely new player to it. Let them try the other side if they were a wolf for the first game so that they can get a little experience in the other side.
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As for Nyght, the argument isn't that a new player wouldn't be scum. The argument is that Nyght's posts and reactions right off felt like they came from new town and not new scum. Specifically him bringing up the no lynching made me feel like he was town because it's exactly how I thought when I was town and first started playing. He feels like he's by himself to me and not working with a team.
I'm more baffled as to why there'd even be such a distinction, since a new player wouldn't always be able to distinguish between the two and could easily make "new town" mistakes as a scum simply because they can just be overall new player mistakes in general. Like, what actually separates a "new town" mistake versus a "new scum" mistake aside from the latter being someone that literally acts like a scum player (which even then, again in the case of Hapi's chaotic plays, that can be thrown into question as well)?
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Also as for my post that you quoted about TGN, I do not believe him to be town. Also not sold on him being scum. The post isn't really as yikes as it seems. TGN is in PoE, and while I could go either way on him, he could be a good lynch because 1) He's been the counterwagon twice now and has survived, which is interesting and 2) He gives info on other players. I still think TGN could be scum for the possible distance coaching from Silver. But I can also see some towniness from him. I don't want every day phase to be a wagon starts on TGN, then a second wagon picks up and TGN is saved. That just puts us in the same spot over and over again.
See, that I can be on board with...the fact that he's somehow survived multiple wagons and could provide info that way. That's more of what I'm wanting to hear instead of just "He should maybe be lynched so people stop talking about him."
I think you're missing a few points in a TGN lynch. If they keep stealing the spotlight but never get lynched the amount of information we get in each Day Phase becomes limited or straight up abysmal. Not only that, but even if they're Town, would you rather keep someone like them that is unstable as them at -Lo, specially now that Lau established that votes can't be moved once cast then? It's begging to have them mislynched or having them mislynch someone before proper discussion.
Some players are more useful to scum as Town, and they have to be dealt with as soon as possible, usually via a cop check (but our cop died because people keep defending their ass yeet) or killing. Right now when the odds of a mislynch are extremely high, getting rid of weaker players that won't get nightkilled but give massive amount of information through interactions is way better than you'd think, specially with limited role information to be obtained.
This all of course if they really are town, which they might not even be.
Yeah, see that I don't agree with. For starters, remember that this isn't a cutthroat competitive game like ZD or MU may be, it's just a friendly more casual game for people to have fun...so lynching someone purely because their play-style is "unstable" even if they're town just doesn't sit well with me.
If you think he's scum, lynch him. If you think he's town, don't lynch him. Like, I'm on board with Minish's statement about his continued survival from two bandwagons being useful info, but I completely disagree with lynching someone purely because of their play-style not meshing.
If you're so afraid of him "stealing the spotlight" then just keep doing what you're doing in keeping the spotlight off of him and shining it on the players you believe are more worthy of the scrutiny. Considering the last game had Hapi outright memeing and being chaotic and unpredictable and it didn't hurt the town from winning, I don't personally see the harm in an "unstable" play-style.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 11, 2021, 12:37:49 PM
Interested where you are with everyone right now ExLight, even if just in brief.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 11, 2021, 12:38:59 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 11, 2021, 12:45:48 PM
I think you're missing a few points in a TGN lynch. If they keep stealing the spotlight but never get lynched the amount of information we get in each Day Phase becomes limited or straight up abysmal. Not only that, but even if they're Town, would you rather keep someone like them that is unstable as them at -Lo, specially now that Lau established that votes can't be moved once cast then? It's begging to have them mislynched or having them mislynch someone before proper discussion.
Some players are more useful to scum as Town, and they have to be dealt with as soon as possible, usually via a cop check (but our cop died because people keep defending their ass yeet) or killing. Right now when the odds of a mislynch are extremely high, getting rid of weaker players that won't get nightkilled but give massive amount of information through interactions is way better than you'd think, specially with limited role information to be obtained.
This all of course if they really are town, which they might not even be.
Yeah, see that I don't agree with. For starters, remember that this isn't a cutthroat competitive game like ZD or MU may be, it's just a friendly more casual game for people to have fun...so lynching someone purely because their play-style is "unstable" even if they're town just doesn't sit well with me.
If you think he's scum, lynch him. If you think he's town, don't lynch him. Like, I'm on board with Minish's statement about his continued survival from two bandwagons being useful info, but I completely disagree with lynching someone purely because of their play-style not meshing.
If you're so afraid of him "stealing the spotlight" then just keep doing what you're doing in keeping the spotlight off of him and shining it on the players you believe are more worthy of the scrutiny. Considering the last game had Hapi outright memeing and being chaotic and unpredictable and it didn't hurt the town from winning, I don't personally see the harm in an "unstable" play-style.
Ok, I don’t get why you’re putting this as if it’s hypercompetitive because this really isn’t about that, and ZD isn’t competitive at all but ok (feel free to visit us wink wink). We all have a team assigned to and we’re looking for ways to win with them. Wanting stronger players to survive until -Lo is just a consequence of that, it has nothing to do with being competitive.
How is this different from a casual match of chess, where people try to have a Queen over a Knight in the endgame? Is scum not doing literally the same? They’ll aim for stronger players and try to hit our strongest roles. Both sides get to nitpick who we want to play based on who might help us win.
If someone’s plays are at best an ambiguous chaos and them flipping helps the game to progress, why wouldn’t I want their lynch in this case? Why wouldn’t they want that WIFOM around them solved if they’re Town? Getting mislynched shouldn’t be seen as something negative like ending the fun for someone because it’s important for their team and for themselves as it gives them experience and something to reflect on how they could’ve played better; and if someone tells you otherwise they’re just Appealing to Emotion.
If you’re pitying them because they’re a newer player that’s fine, but it’s just part of the game and they’re just reaping what they sow, I feel a lot worse about someone that gets shot N1 regardless of their experience because they barely have a chance to do anything for themselves than someone lynched at D4 that was in the spotlight in the last 144h, but even so most (if not any) scum wouldn’t hold the kill. So yes, I’m not comfortable letting people play their own parallel game here in a game that is about teamwork like TGN did D2, it’s like letting a baby play with a beach ball in the middle of a soccer game but instead of a baby it’s a fully grown adult that is more than capable of understanding how they’re being disruptive.
And while they seemed to play it a bit more seriously D3 (after me constantly insisting on him making a readslist), I don’t think we have any guarantee of him intending to cooperate in a scenario like -Lo. There are many other people here that have little to no experience in Mafia but are doing a great job at playing it in a more adequate way that I’d rather have at -Lo than someone who is playing for himself rather than their team.
In any case I’m scumreading him, but I feel like the game will have trouble progressing while we don’t figure out his alignment.
And rolling scum twice in a roll isn’t that hard, and it being their first games changed literally nothing in the probability. Minish there rolled scum like four or five times in a row last year.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 11, 2021, 01:22:43 PM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 11, 2021, 01:30:21 PM
Also a late post from Sapph about Kane seemed to hold sinister meaning . I would definitely make a move for Kane , if a wagon fruitifies .
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 11, 2021, 01:33:13 PM
Uh Kane I don’t think anybody voted for you yet? Also, 5.5 hours if I calculated correctly
If we look at the center stage name of the day one player announcement it would leave us with Kane's name in the exact middle of the list.
This is the reason why I find Kane suspicious.
Post by: Laurentus on February 11, 2021, 02:05:10 PM
Post by: Minish on February 11, 2021, 02:39:20 PM
Planning on putting out my reads later today. Interested in knowing how strong ExLight/Minish's town tells on Kane are because that was originally planning on voting today.
Interested where you are with everyone right now ExLight, even if just in brief.
Not strong at all. That's why I said I wouldn't be upset if people vote him. But I'd be interested to see his defense.
Also btw I fundamentally disagree with Ex that a town who is center of discussion should let themselves be lynched for info for town. You should always fight your lynch as town. You don't know the alignment of people sussing you but you do know yours so you only trust yourself.
Post by: ExLight on February 11, 2021, 02:47:58 PM
Planning on putting out my reads later today. Interested in knowing how strong ExLight/Minish's town tells on Kane are because that was originally planning on voting today.It’s not a townread, but it’s just enough to make me hesitate.
Interested where you are with everyone right now ExLight, even if just in brief.
I’ll try to make a rainbowlist later.
Also btw I fundamentally disagree with Ex that a town who is center of discussion should let themselves be lynched for info for town. You should always fight your lynch as town. You don't know the alignment of people sussing you but you do know yours so you only trust yourself.If the death could shed light onto the remaining scum or townlean a bunch of players we’re on the fence then why not.
He can defend himself for the third time today.
Vote: TGN
Post by: Minish on February 11, 2021, 03:00:18 PM
Planning on putting out my reads later today. Interested in knowing how strong ExLight/Minish's town tells on Kane are because that was originally planning on voting today.It’s not a townread, but it’s just enough to make me hesitate.
Interested where you are with everyone right now ExLight, even if just in brief.
I’ll try to make a rainbowlist later.Also btw I fundamentally disagree with Ex that a town who is center of discussion should let themselves be lynched for info for town. You should always fight your lynch as town. You don't know the alignment of people sussing you but you do know yours so you only trust yourself.If the death could shed light onto the remaining scum or townlean a bunch of players we’re on the fence then why not.
He can defend himself for the third time today.
Vote: TGN
Because who's to say the people acting on the fence are even town. Or that your lynch would even clear anything up.
But like yeah, voting TGN isn't bad here.
Post by: TGN on February 11, 2021, 04:12:03 PM
...Planning on putting out my reads later today. Interested in knowing how strong ExLight/Minish's town tells on Kane are because that was originally planning on voting today.It’s not a townread, but it’s just enough to make me hesitate.
Interested where you are with everyone right now ExLight, even if just in brief.
I’ll try to make a rainbowlist later.Also btw I fundamentally disagree with Ex that a town who is center of discussion should let themselves be lynched for info for town. You should always fight your lynch as town. You don't know the alignment of people sussing you but you do know yours so you only trust yourself.If the death could shed light onto the remaining scum or townlean a bunch of players we’re on the fence then why not.
He can defend himself for the third time today.
Vote: TGN
quite a pickle I am in right now
if you can tell me with my death who would be cleared or who will be scum, I will "go out" on my own terms ONLY IF you tell me who my death would clear.
ok?
also idk what to say most of the time so I haven't been able to clear myself
but I will sacrifice myself to the wall IF needed
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 06:27:54 PM
Vro's voting and unvoting still remains questionable to me , after all , if he turns out as a scum , he will have the best knowledge about lynch consequences . Either way , I have strong gut feelings , that Vro will be lynched in all certainty . Ig everyone would be happy to remove one suspect of the list of scum than keep one hoping him to be innocent . Sorry Vro if this hurts u , but u made a bad name for urself. I hope u understand whatever the play is here , u have drawn far too much suspicion
this post raises !!! in my head
“ye bro sorry if you’re good man you brought it on yourself not because our thinking could be wrong”
This was a decoy sort of post i would say . What i was looking for was retaliation , which unfortunately took place before this post as many cited Vro's chance of being a townie and no one . I looked out for people who did not retaliate , because even after the best defenses and clarifications i stubbornly stood on my words , and said things as if it was fixed that Vro will be lynched by the town . The post did not go very well , as i did not receive counters until now , and here I am justifying why i did it . It was just a measure to clear out some people out of suspicion momentarily
Looking for retaliation makes sense. This post makes me feel a lot better about you. Your late vote on Ruguo at the end pings me, but... ehh?
I had to get my options reduced , I was pretty much sure that Vro was townie by then . However my doubts over the rest cleared up when Ruguo went in hot against Vro at the last moment, which looked like a vain push to me to save himself from getting lynched . And so the late voting . I was probably the 3rd/4th person voting for ruguo . Also voting and unvoting has got some big chaos running already , its better to vote once even if its late😅
I think your vote was way later than that. If I get to rereading the thread, I'll pay more attention to wagonicomics.
Not gonna lie , its possible that i was late , i mentioned in a post above that i did not go through 3-4 pages , because it was getting late for me to vote. Maybe votes were in those pages and i kept those out of my calculation of chronology
That makes... sense.
If you're scum here as your first game... you're a good liar!
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 06:30:12 PM
Players:1. Ruguo
2. Red Mones
3. Vroendal
4. Gerrick5. Adorable Oracle Hapi
6. Anubhav Ghosh7. Sapphiron - Cop
8. Wischland
9. Minish
10. Michi
11. Imaginative Kane
12. BraveSirRobin
13. TGN
14. Wintermoot
15. NyghtOwl
16.Melehan
17. Doc
18. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
19. Alexander Valentine / ExLight
20. cozmikrae
21. Eastern New England / HumanDawn
Final Vote Count:
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
Not voting: Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Michi
From Day 3 EoD, I'm mostly bothered with Cozmikrae for his unvote putting a soft PR at risk and Anubhav Ghosh ignoring the Sapphiron soft claim. ExLight said he didn't necessarily trust the soft PR claim, but his vote was actually on TGN, not Sapphiron, so I can't really get bothered by that (sorry ExLight for the disappointed comment earlier).
I am okay with throwing TGN a bone for voting Sapphiron for survival and in the case that Sapphiron could be scum to help clear him, and he's new at the game too.
I want to know where @Imaginative Kane, @Wintermoot and @Legacy of Smile were doing. For me and Minish we weren't around EoD and I was asleep when the softclaim happened. Phase updates at 7AM and I didn't make an alarm to wake up at that time.
Out of Cozmikrae and Anubhav Ghosh, I don't know which one bothers me more. They were both off plays. Cozmikrae comes off as more experienced than Anubhav to me, so his play is more suspect.
Vote: Cozmikrae
Talking of experience , this is my first werewolf game in my whole history of life , plz bear with me and the total ignorance about the soft claim , i didn't even know what softening up meant :'( .
That's fine, I didn't know this was your first game. That makes sense, and matches up with wanting somebody to tell you who to vote. Sorry if I missed it or forgot, but why did you follow Vroendal? I'm assuming it's because you trust him the most, but maybe there's some history out of the game where he recommended you join it or something.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 06:33:53 PM
Players:1. Ruguo
2. Red Mones
3. Vroendal
4. Gerrick5. Adorable Oracle Hapi
6. Anubhav Ghosh7. Sapphiron - Cop
8. Wischland
9. Minish
10. Michi
11. Imaginative Kane
12. BraveSirRobin
13. TGN
14. Wintermoot
15. NyghtOwl
16.Melehan
17. Doc
18. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
19. Alexander Valentine / ExLight
20. cozmikrae
21. Eastern New England / HumanDawn
Final Vote Count:
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
Not voting: Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Michi
From Day 3 EoD, I'm mostly bothered with Cozmikrae for his unvote putting a soft PR at risk and Anubhav Ghosh ignoring the Sapphiron soft claim. ExLight said he didn't necessarily trust the soft PR claim, but his vote was actually on TGN, not Sapphiron, so I can't really get bothered by that (sorry ExLight for the disappointed comment earlier).
I am okay with throwing TGN a bone for voting Sapphiron for survival and in the case that Sapphiron could be scum to help clear him, and he's new at the game too.
I want to know where @Imaginative Kane, @Wintermoot and @Legacy of Smile were doing. For me and Minish we weren't around EoD and I was asleep when the softclaim happened. Phase updates at 7AM and I didn't make an alarm to wake up at that time.
Out of Cozmikrae and Anubhav Ghosh, I don't know which one bothers me more. They were both off plays. Cozmikrae comes off as more experienced than Anubhav to me, so his play is more suspect.
Vote: Cozmikrae
I am a she btw.
So... actually this is my lack of experience showing here. I understood that Sapph was softing a role, but as I wasn't voting for him, I wasn't concerned with it. But at the end, I got caught up in sudden flash of intuition and last minute scum reads (Vro, Ghosh and ExLight). Suddenly concerned that I was lynching a townie, I jumped off the boat, forgetting to consider that I was putting a potential power role in danger. Hindsight is 20/20, I won't be doing that again. I completely agree, a vanilla townie TGN should have been sacrificed to save the seer. The whole concept of wagonomics and how my vote factors into influencing a lynch I didn't personally vote for is kinda new to me.
Quite a few noobies here... My biggest issue is how late the unvote was. You got a sudden flash and last minute reads exactly before EoD? I feel like that's a bit harder to believe. Anubhav claims ignorance to the situation, but you knew about the power role and what the lynch would mean.
Do you have other reads at least? Who would you vote today? (unless you have already voted somebody else, in which case ignore this part and i will check it out)
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 06:37:36 PM
It’s a bit trickier than this because claiming is not allowed, so there’s always that WIFOM on whether or not it really is a soft. In any case waiting for 3 power roles to die is kinda brutal and the odds of hitting -Lo with at least one of them alive isn’t small at all. Not to mention he could always kill all people that realized the soft until then, and leave only inexperienced players that didn’t realize it around to get away with it even if all Power Roles flipped.Me? I though Sapph was scum bluffing. In any case I already had my vote on TGN, there wasn’t much for me to do.But him voting TGN would’ve increased the gap and most likely prevented the Lynch from happening, right?Yes, it would have. From my point of view at the time Sapph's lynch was being prevented. I was voting TGN who was in the majority, I told Anubhav to vote on another wagon. I don't blame Anubhav for not voting past that point, but I admit I probably could have pushed him harder. I should mention that I was also town-reading TGN. I did not forsee cozmik's flip, which isn't really an excuse, but I could ask you why you didn't prevent the lynch either.
Lame.
Even if he is scum bluffing, we would have known he was lying later down the game if the three confirmed power roles die, or suspect him more based on whether he stayed alive or not. What made you think he was scum bluffing specifically here? I expect a lot more from you on something like this...
I expected him to bluff because I’m aware he’s an experienced player and he’d know this is the best play for scum. His actions of laying low were ambiguous at best, I’d’ve been way more likely to think it was legit if he had put more effort scumhunting umu
It's not brutal when scum wants them killed. Two can die, and the third can soft to kind of counterclaim Sapph if it ever reaches that point. Saying that he could always kill the people that realized the soft is meaningless because for him to know they realized it they either have to hint at it really subtly or out it, in which case everyone knows about the soft already and killing them specifically doesn't affect anything.
I can see how you'd expect him to bluff to save himself - but then he could always be telling the truth about it even with putting less effort and it would be worth giving him a chance at least.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 11, 2021, 06:43:03 PM
Players:1. Ruguo
2. Red Mones
3. Vroendal
4. Gerrick5. Adorable Oracle Hapi
6. Anubhav Ghosh7. Sapphiron - Cop
8. Wischland
9. Minish
10. Michi
11. Imaginative Kane
12. BraveSirRobin
13. TGN
14. Wintermoot
15. NyghtOwl
16.Melehan
17. Doc
18. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
19. Alexander Valentine / ExLight
20. cozmikrae
21. Eastern New England / HumanDawn
Final Vote Count:
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
Not voting: Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Michi
From Day 3 EoD, I'm mostly bothered with Cozmikrae for his unvote putting a soft PR at risk and Anubhav Ghosh ignoring the Sapphiron soft claim. ExLight said he didn't necessarily trust the soft PR claim, but his vote was actually on TGN, not Sapphiron, so I can't really get bothered by that (sorry ExLight for the disappointed comment earlier).
I am okay with throwing TGN a bone for voting Sapphiron for survival and in the case that Sapphiron could be scum to help clear him, and he's new at the game too.
I want to know where @Imaginative Kane, @Wintermoot and @Legacy of Smile were doing. For me and Minish we weren't around EoD and I was asleep when the softclaim happened. Phase updates at 7AM and I didn't make an alarm to wake up at that time.
Out of Cozmikrae and Anubhav Ghosh, I don't know which one bothers me more. They were both off plays. Cozmikrae comes off as more experienced than Anubhav to me, so his play is more suspect.
Vote: Cozmikrae
Talking of experience , this is my first werewolf game in my whole history of life , plz bear with me and the total ignorance about the soft claim , i didn't even know what softening up meant :'( .
That's fine, I didn't know this was your first game. That makes sense, and matches up with wanting somebody to tell you who to vote. Sorry if I missed it or forgot, but why did you follow Vroendal? I'm assuming it's because you trust him the most, but maybe there's some history out of the game where he recommended you join it or something.
I do trust him a lot , maybe my top town guy . His defenses back in D2 spoke for his trustworthiness .
But the problem in in trusting in this game😅
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 06:43:51 PM
Well, you asked lol.
Why I scumread Kane:SpoilerQuoteThis is also something I am wondering about after reading through posts on the topic.
For now I will use my No Lynch vote but that will change later on since I am sure some other players will eventually look more suspicious.
Melehan has been triggering some of my suspicion because from what I remember when reading and playing previous Werewolf games, the players who were committed to a role in all of their posts were usually evil or just hiding something. Hapi in the last game proved an exception to the evil players posting in character but I think the Batman game had a few cases like that (and then there are the "generic Batman quotes").
There's nothing specific that pings me in this post but there's not a whole lot accomplished either. Mostly saying they sus Mekehan and then arguing against their sus on Melehan and then saying they want to NL. Seems more likely a wolf makes this post trying to fit in and not post many opinions of their own.QuoteAn updated vote track. As of Vroendal's count it was like this:While this is very useful, it is also actually the post that first pinged me on Kane when I was reading. Seems like IIoA (information instead of analysis) where a beginner wolf tries to look universally helpful by spending a lot of time posting objective facts like the posts below. It's not wolfy that Kane is posting info posts like these, and they are very helpful, but it is wolfy that a good proportion of Kane's posts are completely objective info with no strong opinions of his own.
Hapi 2 (Red, Melehan)
Red 2 (Hapi, cozmikrae)
Michi 2 (Gerrick, Vroendal)
Wintermoot 1 (NyghtOwl)
Doc 1 (Ruguo)
Vroendal 1 (Sapphiron)
Sapphiron 1 (TGN)
Ruguo then voted for Michi to apply some pressure.
Not sure if TGN's post after that was voting for Michi since they had their vote on Sapphiron and then said Unvote: Michi.
NyghtOwl then changed their vote to Hapi thinking Wintermoot was just like voting a third party candidate and citing the potential for chaos.
Then TGN changed their vote to a joke vote on Laurentus. (for editing a post)
Then I made my No Lynch vote (pending more information).
Hapi then changed their vote to cozmikrae. (jumping on a joke wagon but not convincing Hapi why)
Hapi 3 (Red, Melehan, NyghtOwl)
Red 1 (cozmikrae)
Michi 3 (Gerrick, Vroendal, Ruguo)
Vroendal 1 (Sapphiron)
Laurentus 1 (TGN)
cozmikrae 1 (Hapi)
No Lynch 1 (Kane)
I will check this game later but now I am going to focus on school stuff.QuoteWhile I would rather vote No Lynch, I am not actually planning to. I am just using it as a placeholder which I thought I made clear with that wording. Also what information could I hand out without pinning a target on me? It is only D1.
This is a really weird thing for a townsperson to think / say and emphasises the blending in mindset I saw before. I don't see why a townsperson would want to blend in like this.QuoteThe main player I am not at all suspicious of so far is NyghtOwl. I like their original voting justification so for now I will go off of that in case I am not active before the day ends. BSR seems a bit too quiet so far but they haven't been online for a while so that is somewhat excusable. I really don't have any plausible suspicions so far. Just weak suspicions of Robin, Melehan, and Minish. I just have a gut feeling with Minish for some reason. Neither Hapi nor Michi seem scummy to me. Everyone else is generally on the same level as Hapi and Michi, neither suspicious nor not suspicious.
I will vote BraveSirRobin for now since they fit the bill and I wonder if they are doing what I often do: view the forums without logging in.
The argument on BSR is very weak here... so why are they still tunneling this person on D4? Kane even makes an excuse for BSR in this post. I also want to draw attention to the NyghtOwl read as not being anything original because Nyght was probably the most consensus town read at this point in the thread. I also don't think that this person is partnered with Nyght (although to be honest Nyght is probably just town anyway so this shouldn't matter much).QuoteI think I now understand why I always seem so suspicious to yall when I play. (Even if I don't seem that suspicious yet for once) My meta seems to be suspicious overall. I am usually somewhat quiet whether I am town or scum. Whether or not there are neutral roles, I am definitely a tightwad when it comes to giving information which is probably partially out of paranoia that I will immediately be targeted by enemies or breaking the rules if I open up. Plus I tend to get rather defensive (maybe not as much as Aragonn though).
A notable part of my meta that is not too hard to confirm by reading through past games is that I tend to avoid wagons unless I agree with them (regardless of which side I am on) or I feel the need to join them for self preservation. Also I tend to vote off of hunches when I make my votes unless the reasons for a vote seem sound and I agree with them enough to vote the same. Seeing how big talking seems to be, I understand why I tend to be suspicious. When asked, I will say I am innocent but can not confirm (who wouldn't in this kind of game).
For talk about the meta of others. I have read a few of the previous games and Gerrick seems to be the meta I feel I have the best understanding of. That meta seems to be always relatively quiet and contributing to discussions and then either someone realizing they are scum or someone taking them out at night :)) (Though this is mostly from looking at Star Wars, Batman, and Game of Thrones).
I may have some idea of Red's meta but he has played quite a few games I have not been in so I am not sure. The Game of Thrones meta I remember was being quiet except to vote and sometimes discussing with their votes being primarily joining wagons (mostly at the Wall when they were scum). I think some good points were made earlier about Red on both sides so I won't vote them. I am a little less suspicious of Minish now but still have a lingering gut suspicion (getting vibes from that Portal Werewolf when we were both scum). Otherwise, there isn't really any new suspicions to note. Though I had forgotten about Wintermoot being quiet earlier for some reason.
For now I will keep my vote in place.
The defence part of this post pinged me at first for being wolfy although I'm not really sure how I feel about it now. I don't think saying that they do wolfy things as town really defends a lot of the things I've noticed so far more.QuoteOh hi Kane. Why don't I remember a single one of your posts from D1?
Answer: I'm clearly inept at remember who all is playing. Carry on.QuoteDon't worry about it Ruguo. There have been quite a few posts so far. Not as much as other games but there was definitely a lot in the posts.
This interaction feels pretty forced. Could see these two as w/w.Quote[Well I won't be making as big of a post as I was planning to since I need to wake up earlier this morning. Because of that, this will not be as elaborate as I would hope.
My opposition to both the Michi and Hapi wagons yesterday was because I did not feel either were sus in any way yet. I still do not see them as sus (makes sense for the latter since they were offed and revealed) but there have been some very good points made with the analyses of the wagons and their participants. I am nearing a point where Michi could a target of my vote.
Some of the players I am finding difficult to analyze include: Melehan, Vroendal, Minish, ENE, and Wischland. Vroendal I have a fair bit of suspicion towards but they appear to be defending themselves well. Melehan keeps flip flopping in my view between town and scum leaning with the different analyses and RP/flavor posts. Minish has been quite helpful towards the town but at the same time, I have a nagging suspicion that they are playing a part as scum. Wischland and Alexander Valentine and ENE have not posted enough for me to get a read of them based off what I have read so far. I have a suspicion that somewhere in the group of BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, Red, Vroendal, Minish, Ogun and others I am not thinking of right now; there is at least one Titan. This is very much an unproved gut or vibe suspicion though. I also wonder with Melehan and Vroendal how much of their post liking with the arguments for and against their suspiciousness is indicative of players being onto something with regards to their leanings.
I would say TGN is null with a slight town lean so far. While they keep making posts and votes that are explained away as jokes, something about them makes me think they are not that suspicious so far.
Nyght, Anubhav, and cozmikrae are now in a sort of town lock position for the moment (temporarily with Anubhav since they haven't posted much but they are newly substituted and those posts have me convinced). While I am not convinced of Red's suspiciousness or non suspicion, their defense combined with what I have seen of cozmik are making me think they are a player adjusting to this town setting but fitting in and trying to contribute.
As a summary of these reads.
Town Lock
NyghtOwl (Are you playing us though?)
cozmikrae ()
Anubhav Ghosh (this probably won't last long, I am being generous since they are more of a lean but that remains to be seen)
Town Lean
Wintermoot (somewhat suspicious but you seem to be triggering my gut a little less than the others)
TGN (reminds me of some of my own early games, more chaotic and less suspicious and not triggering my alarms)
Michi (they seem to just be defending themselves and their resigned defense reminds me of a lot of mislynches)
Gerrick (so far they have yet to set off an alarm)
Null or not much of a read.
Wischland (haven't seen much from their posts)
Eastern New England (not as inactive but haven't seen much from their posts)
Ogun of Valeria (same as Melehan)
Melehan (Just don't know)
Ruguo (same as the previous two)
Alexander Valentine (no activity)
Sapphiron (not sure even with I have read and remember)
Red Mones (not as conflicting as the others but somewhat town leading and conflicting)
Scum Lean
BraveSirRobin (the defense did help but I need to reread it some more, really more of a null until that time)
Conflicting Reads (definitely need more analysis since I am seeing signs of both sides or thinking I am seeing them)
Minish (not suspicious in their posts but for some reason they are reminding me of when we were both wolves and seem to be holding something back (though that is normally not suspicious to me))
Doc (I seem to be seeing a mixture of town and scum reads from my mind and others and I am being reminded of The Wall when they were scum)
Vroendal (Appears to simultaneously be scum leaning and town leaning)]
Probably Kane's best post and most of the reads seem fair. I want to point out two that stand out however. The NyghtOwl read has some unnecessary shade for... no reason? Weird, since Kane said they're not suspicious of Nyght at all earlier. The read on BSR is way too weak to justify how strongly Kane is tunneling them.QuoteThis day sure flew by fast and it was not fun (not the phase (though that was a lot to read through and I definitely have not studied it much)). He is/was a similar case to a few of the people who I marked as null or not much to go off of in that there is a bit to go off of, but I have not been able to get a read off of their posts yet.
I could be willing to go along with the Ruguo and Vroendal votes but I am not that suspicious of either one at the moment. I will just vote for the one who I am most suspicious of right now.
Vote BSR
Just the right amount of distancing from Ruguo that I would expect from one of their partners. You can tell he doesn't want to vote for Ruguo here... "go along". If Kane is a wolf, Vro is probably town because I think Kane probably lists one wolf and one town in his list of two.QuoteI was not actually intending to No Lynch and I did not officially use it since I changed my vote to BSR. My reason for the early defensive posts is just to start preparing a defense early since I usually seem to be suspicious which often results in some wagon danger.
That is true that I only voted for BSR, my reasoning for that was because I did not see agree with the major wagons that were up on those days (I found out how wrong that belief was last day phase but was correct on the first day phase). The only reason I ever join those wagons is because I fully agree or mostly agree and find them suspicious. Otherwise, I vote for someone else who I find suspicious despite it not making a difference. That is just how I vote normally, sorry if that makes you suspicious of me. The reason I have not pressured them in this day phase is because I have not been online for most of this day phase. Yesterday, I simply did not open up this website or log in because I was starting on some assignments and watching some shows. The one post I did make (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156651#msg156651), I think explains well enough why I did not vote at that point in time.
Bold is the wolfiest thing I have read all game. If you're town, you shouldn't be this paranoid about getting lynched as soon as D1 starts. I don't like the explanation for the BSR vote, it only amounts to BSR being suspicious for unknown reasons and not wanting to vote Michi / Hapi (this feels like wolf reasoning, a wolf not wanting to vote either Michi or Hapi because when one dies and is revealed to be town Kane wouldn't want to be suspected for it). Certainly don't think this justifies the BSR tunnel.
Every other post I don't really have anything to comment on.
Kane is in the solid scumread category right now. I don't think Kane and BSR are w/w though, so if one of those flips wolf I would townread the other.
Oh and since I'm under the impression Kane is a newer player, I'll end this with a little advice for them. I would focus on sharing more opinions if you can. I can't tell if you're not because you're trying to avoid conflict or, if town, you're scared of being wrong but the best way to try to ease suspicions on you now isn't to try to justify yourself by telling us how you do this as town too but to do things that are towny like sharing more opinions.
A question for Kane: what do you think of BSR now? Has your case against them got stronger since you first voted them? If not, why are you continuing to vote them if your reasoning is so weak? If you don't feel your reasoning is weak, please expand on it in more detail.
Wow... nice post! Even though I don't agree with everything against Kane, I see where you're coming from in your analysis. I can see how the distance can be faked as well. My biggest peeve is the Town lock reads - Cozmikrae, Nyght Owl and Anubhav? I feel like they hadn't done much to justify being "locked".
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 06:45:44 PM
I'm not gonna lie, I'm hung up on BSR. The fact that I thought he should have been the counter d3 and wasn't, that Sapph originally voted him d3, that Kane has an odd connection voting for him 2 days in a row, that Silver kept pushing him but never voting for him, he was on Vro d2, and then possibly voted TGN for the towncred of not voting Sapph because scum could've just killed him at night anyways.
But... what about BSR should have made him the counterwagon?
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 06:47:25 PM
New tinfoil theory, TGN is the lynchproof scum and that’s why they were overlyconfident D2. A scumbuddy points out that even though he wouldn’t die from a lynch it would still expose him since he’s the only one like that. He then starts panicking at the idea of getting lynched.
Not a terrible theory.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 06:48:58 PM
Just outta curiosity, but when you say vote shifts are suspicious do you think votes jumping into Sapph or out of Sapph are worse?Unfortunately, you either trust me or you don't. I am not going to commit the same sin as I have done last game, allowing over-investment in the game to result in roleclaiming and rule breach. That will have to do to explain for my detached way of playing this round. You guys will find out whether you are right or wrong in lynching me soon enough.
Also, I don't believe it's that implausible for a person to be given the scum role twice in a role. You guys make it sound like Doc wasn't consecutively Wolf before.I am more useful to Town alive than dead,
Vote: TGN
Bolded are the main hints. They were late into the day after most votes had happened, this is why the later vote shifts after these hints are the suspicious ones.
I’m a bit on the fence on what to expect from the scumteam in a scenario like this.
Because of the way this setup is designed (with Sapph being nigh-unkillable if outed as seer thanks to the two defenders) I think wolves would probably be willing to make themselves suspicious in order to push a Sapphiron lynch. If I were a wolf, I would probably be willing to sacrifice the life of my most suspicious teammate in order to lynch the cop under these circumstances.
Nothing was suspicious before the first Sapphiron soft claim post because I think making the wagons 3-3-3 was a fine decision.
Doc - Passable response, they seem to have noticed the soft but not wanted to announce it at the time and made an effort, albeit a reasonably small one.
ExLight - Not much to comment on this one tbh, null response. Relatively few Sapphiron interactions but stuck to other wagons the entire time.
TGN - Passable because they seemed pretty oblivious to it, don't like the Sapph vote but I understand it was self preservation.
Nyght - Good response, also doesn't seem to notice the soft but this time votes for BSR, which is a good look.
Wintermoot - Alarm bells here. This person probably noticed the soft and still voted. Would like to hear their thoughts on why they did this.
Kane - Oh dear. Votes Sapphiron, makes an excuse for not being able to chance his vote if Sapphiron makes a good defence and then dips. I didn't even notice this on my ISO but yikes.
BSR - Honestly the best response in the thread if we're assuming wolves were trying to lynch Sapphiron. Votes for the most viable counterwagon and tries to convince others to. If this person does flip wolf then my entire stance here is probably wrong but this reaction probably made me lean BSR as town.
Vroendal - Was pretty neutral on this until he told Anubhav to unvote, from there the response is very towny.
Anubhav - Covered this earlier but genuinely seems not to have realised what was happening. Read them town from this.
cozmikrae - What have I just witnessed happen here? Was the vote change responsible for Sapph dying. Feels like this response could have been because of wolf teammates asking them to unvote? Seems out of nowhere.
Bolded... for emphasis!
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 06:53:03 PM
The way I'm reading Sapphiron's poem is as if he were in the point of view of one of the people he scanned. Unless there's an encrypted message as others seem to be trying to decode, it seems that there's only one player being talked about in the poem.poem for referenceLife’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
If we assume he scanned Melehan Night 1 based on this (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156505#msg156505), and he died on Night 3, that means he had only scanned one other person on Night 2. My guess is that the poem is about this person.
The way it reads to me is that the curtains unfolding are the start of the game, and "quick be at the center" could mean someone jumping out to be in the spotlight. If you go back to the start of the game, you'll notice that this very easily fits Red Mones' first post. "From the sides here comes your fellow actors" could then just mean that the rest of the players entered the game following this. "Look at the script! Remember be genuine": after Red's initial post, he goes for something more serious/helpful. "Audience dislikes the boring or brazen / To tear in merry and grin in dismal" could refer to his behaviour which was neither quiet nor very agressive, while the latter could refer to the amount of emojis he uses. "Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle / No, no, you have it backward" could refer to how he was initially very active ("staying on stage" rather than "reaching for the aisle"), but in Day 3 he went very quiet ("reaching for the aisle" rather than "staying on stage").
This would give me the impression that Sapphiron scanned Red Mones and with the whole acting theme going on that he is scum. HOWEVER, with this post (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156707#msg156707) (which took place pretty early on Day 3 as if he wanted to leave a clue to clear Red), it appears that he's hinting that he's town. Ergo concordantly vis a vis, I believe that Red Mones is town.
Unless somebody else can scrape something from that poem or perhaps plug a different player into it that works out a little clearer.
This post is the best analysis of the poem - I agree that Red Mones was likely the check here. It could not have been... but I town read Red Mones enough that I don't really care if it actually wasn't right now.
Post by: Minish on February 11, 2021, 06:58:33 PM
I'm not gonna lie, I'm hung up on BSR. The fact that I thought he should have been the counter d3 and wasn't, that Sapph originally voted him d3, that Kane has an odd connection voting for him 2 days in a row, that Silver kept pushing him but never voting for him, he was on Vro d2, and then possibly voted TGN for the towncred of not voting Sapph because scum could've just killed him at night anyways.
But... what about BSR should have made him the counterwagon?
I've already said a few times, but he was talked about by a lot of people pushing him who didn't seem to vote him til yesterday. And he and Sapph both seemed like potential scumbuds that Silver tried to distance from so they seemed potentially unaligned to me. I also thought he would give info on other players.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 07:05:40 PM
So I'm kicking myself that Sapph was still lynched even after I specifically stated that Sapph pretty much ONLY soft claims power roles when he's miffed at people who still suspect he's a "wolf" or something when he clearly isn't.
Seeing as I know this very well, and seeing how Sapph acted rather identically in the LoTR game, I'm going to be immediately suspicious of those who are voting for him even though they have Wintreath Werewolf experience. Consequently, my shit list presently is as follows: Kane, Minish, Moot, and TGN.
Crossing this with my calls after the first day, which was for reference:
Vro, NyghtOwl, Melehan, Cozmikrae, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, and Minish, who I initially discounted because I liked the analysis, but now I'm definitely more suspect of because being in two townie kill chains is much more suspect, though not being around for EOD is definitely a valid excuse too, so I can't say still. Coz is also suspicious as hell still, because of the literally 3 MINUTES BEFORE THE DEADLINE unvote.
Vote with me if you want to cut off their necks~~~ ♫
Vro though, while still oddly focused on killing me, did get someone to unvote Sapph, which would generally be enough to gain my trust, but I'm still unsure because he could still be a wolf coordinating with Coz, especially because he told the guy to UNVOTE rather than just vote TGN, and just accepting a 50-50 of killing the Seer to appear less suspect. TGN voting Sapph out of self preservation was fine at the beginning, but then keeping it after Sapph soft-not-so-soft claimed Seer is also SUPER suspect.
I'm not sure who we should kill right now, but I have a feeling that some people who are actually villagers might be targeting me, so I would not be opposed to a self lynch of myself to prove to them that they are in fact wrong and get them to bark up a correct tree. Then again, the analysis in this game generally has been quite sketch, apart from that of Minish, Smiles and HumanDawn, who I believe is the replacement for ENE, and the immediate posting after being brought in really makes me think town, because if I was brought in as a wolf, I'd definitely try to PM with my other wolves first.
So if we have to kill me for people to do better analysis, I'm all for it, but I'd prefer if not, because analysis this game has been shit and I can't really count on the townies bringing it home rn because I'm not fully confident Minish is town.
I really hope you aren't lynched because there isn't a case on you that I know of.
I agree about Minish - I want to Town read the slot but something in the back of my head tells me not to. I don't recall a case from her on you and yet she argues you should have been the counterwagon and that it was strange that it wasn't when 3 out of 18 living players in Day 3 are Mafia (and technically only 2 could change the wagon outside of you even if you are scum). Maybe it would hold more merit in a smaller game, but going by the numbers, it's unlikely Mafia had a large say in saving you from being lynched Day 3. If there was a strong case, I would argue it would have merit... but there wasn't.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 07:14:13 PM
I'm not gonna lie, I'm hung up on BSR. The fact that I thought he should have been the counter d3 and wasn't, that Sapph originally voted him d3, that Kane has an odd connection voting for him 2 days in a row, that Silver kept pushing him but never voting for him, he was on Vro d2, and then possibly voted TGN for the towncred of not voting Sapph because scum could've just killed him at night anyways.
But... what about BSR should have made him the counterwagon?
I've already said a few times, but he was talked about by a lot of people pushing him who didn't seem to vote him til yesterday. And he and Sapph both seemed like potential scumbuds that Silver tried to distance from so they seemed potentially unaligned to me. I also thought he would give info on other players.
So...? BSR is one of the less active players - there wasn't much to talk about other than acknowledging him, and players can have other suspicions in their mind that they decide to vote for over him. I'm struggling to see how that can move BSR closer to being Mafia in any way. I can't think of any examples in my head in which Silver/Ruguo tried to distance from both of them. I mean, I guess there is the potential - but that doesn't mean much on its own. I don't know BSR's meta so I can't comment much on the info giving.
Additionally:
Silver kept pushing him but never voting for him, he was on Vro d2, and then possibly voted TGN for the towncred of not voting Sapph because scum could've just killed him at night anyways.
Silver was voting Vroendal to save himself, voting BSR doesn't make much sense. I can see why scum could potentially vote TGN for towncred of not voting a soft claim, but while scum can kill in the night, they have two doctors, one of which would be enough to protect Sapph and keep them alive.
Post by: Minish on February 11, 2021, 07:24:57 PM
So I'm kicking myself that Sapph was still lynched even after I specifically stated that Sapph pretty much ONLY soft claims power roles when he's miffed at people who still suspect he's a "wolf" or something when he clearly isn't.
Seeing as I know this very well, and seeing how Sapph acted rather identically in the LoTR game, I'm going to be immediately suspicious of those who are voting for him even though they have Wintreath Werewolf experience. Consequently, my shit list presently is as follows: Kane, Minish, Moot, and TGN.
Crossing this with my calls after the first day, which was for reference:
Vro, NyghtOwl, Melehan, Cozmikrae, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, and Minish, who I initially discounted because I liked the analysis, but now I'm definitely more suspect of because being in two townie kill chains is much more suspect, though not being around for EOD is definitely a valid excuse too, so I can't say still. Coz is also suspicious as hell still, because of the literally 3 MINUTES BEFORE THE DEADLINE unvote.
Vote with me if you want to cut off their necks~~~ ♫Vro though, while still oddly focused on killing me, did get someone to unvote Sapph, which would generally be enough to gain my trust, but I'm still unsure because he could still be a wolf coordinating with Coz, especially because he told the guy to UNVOTE rather than just vote TGN, and just accepting a 50-50 of killing the Seer to appear less suspect. TGN voting Sapph out of self preservation was fine at the beginning, but then keeping it after Sapph soft-not-so-soft claimed Seer is also SUPER suspect.
I'm not sure who we should kill right now, but I have a feeling that some people who are actually villagers might be targeting me, so I would not be opposed to a self lynch of myself to prove to them that they are in fact wrong and get them to bark up a correct tree. Then again, the analysis in this game generally has been quite sketch, apart from that of Minish, Smiles and HumanDawn, who I believe is the replacement for ENE, and the immediate posting after being brought in really makes me think town, because if I was brought in as a wolf, I'd definitely try to PM with my other wolves first.
So if we have to kill me for people to do better analysis, I'm all for it, but I'd prefer if not, because analysis this game has been shit and I can't really count on the townies bringing it home rn because I'm not fully confident Minish is town.
I really hope you aren't lynched because there isn't a case on you that I know of.
I agree about Minish - I want to Town read the slot but something in the back of my head tells me not to. I don't recall a case from her on you and yet she argues you should have been the counterwagon and that it was strange that it wasn't when 3 out of 18 living players in Day 3 are Mafia (and technically only 2 could change the wagon outside of you even if you are scum). Maybe it would hold more merit in a smaller game, but going by the numbers, it's unlikely Mafia had a large say in saving you from being lynched Day 3. If there was a strong case, I would argue it would have merit... but there wasn't.
I spent d3 stating the case against BSR. At the time he had posted like 5 times so there wasn't much of a case that could be had in terms of actions but there were people that kept suspecting him and not voting for him or someone like Kane who voted him 2 days in a row and then didn't vote him yesterday. The reason BSR should have been the counter yesterday is the fact that he was so talked about without anyone doing anything until that day and the thought that I had that he and Sapph were unaligned. I don't know where you got that I think mafia shifted the votes because that's not what I said at all. I think town spent time talking about BSR and then suddenly shifted again to TGN.
Also just saw your other post before submitting this. Yes people can have other suspicions they follow but the general discussion of BSR seemed odd. You're struggling to see how mafia can easily distance by throwing light suspicion on a scumbud and never doing anything about it?
And I laid it out yesterday how Silver was potentially distancing. It's like you're trying to shade me for stuff I've clearly explained before. But it came from Silver pushing BSR a lot but never once voting him. And Silver also continuously stating suspicion of Sapph but doing so in a way he could easily back out of later (saying he felt odd but that he needed to ISO before he could say for sure and never ISO'd him).
Also I'm fairly certain Silver was pushing to vote BSR before Silver himself was a wagon, so it wasn't that he was just voting elsewhere to save himself. Even once the wagons were him and TGN he said he would rather vote BSR if others would too but didn't really push it that hard.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 07:28:40 PM
*bolding of the word Armored Titan done by meVro though, while still oddly focused on killing me, did get someone to unvote Sapph, which would generally be enough to gain my trust, but I'm still unsure because he could still be a wolf coordinating with Coz, especially because he told the guy to UNVOTE rather than just vote TGN, and just accepting a 50-50 of killing the Seer to appear less suspect. TGN voting Sapph out of self preservation was fine at the beginning, but then keeping it after Sapph soft-not-so-soft claimed Seer is also SUPER suspect.
Point of order; the telling Anubhav to unvote took it from a tie to TGN 1 vote ahead. It was Cozmik's unvote that put it into a tie, and RNGesus got Sapph killed.
I'm still soft sus on Vro but I've grown dramatically less so after that move; if he'd told him to actively vote TGN...that probably actually wouldn't have changed my mind very much, since if TGN flipped scum I'd have considered that a bus play because of how I've been tunnelling, and if he'd flipped town I'd just be confident Vro was town.
In any case, I'm sold on the possibility of TGN being the Armored Titan. On the one hand, if we went for a lynch on him and found out for sure, that'd be a 'waste' of a lynch, since it wouldn't actually work. On the other hand, sure would be nice to have a Sure Thing right now. Especially since I now know that, in the event Vro and TGN are linked, they'd have to be scumbuds, since Lau noted that the Seer never formed a squad and the defenders/'doctors' as y'all seem to prefer calling them aren't in contact.
So, fuck it, Vote: TGN.
Consistency.This is an interesting theory. I actually forgot that we had a power wolf like that. Even if exposed though, would we be able to do anything once we discovered their identity?I mean, not really, but we'd lower the odds of each other individual player being scum from 3/17 to 1/8. I like that just from a 'being less paranoid' perspective - and based on interaction with other players gives us a better sense of who their scumbuds are.
IMO, if he's really the Armored Titan, knowing who one of the scum is for sure beats not knowing even if it's otherwise a 'waste' of a lynch.
Where does it mention that the Armored Titan is the name of the Alpha Werewolf/Godfather? I can't seem to find anywhere in this thread that mentions that/makes that connection. As someone who hasn't watched Attack on Titan, I find it strange that you use this term especially since the only place before your post that the word "armour" is used is in an EoD flavor post by Laurentus that says "a Titan with thick layers of armour," so it wasn't even used in the proper noun form that you are. I can only assume that you learned this term from a PM that either you or one of your scumbuds received before the start of the game. Man, I unfortunately think you really are cursed...
Vote: Doc
The Armored Titan not being able to be killed until all the others die makes a lot of sense. It doesn't fit perfectly, but I can see why they would be chosen to be the unkillable Mafioso until the others die. Actually, I would argue that if the Mafia knew, they would take the opportunity to play dumb and not even mention them at all.
The vote is too hasty. I feel like you are making a mountain out of a molehill, and you even admit that you haven't even watched the show. For me, I would have consulted somebody who knows the show more first before voting. It doesn't really work much for pressure when it's a pretty small thing.
Post by: Minish on February 11, 2021, 07:36:22 PM
So since some people seem to want to vote Kane I'll go with the informative counter wagon.
Vote: TGN
Post by: TGN on February 11, 2021, 07:37:46 PM
page 69, nice
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 07:42:35 PM
So I'm kicking myself that Sapph was still lynched even after I specifically stated that Sapph pretty much ONLY soft claims power roles when he's miffed at people who still suspect he's a "wolf" or something when he clearly isn't.
Seeing as I know this very well, and seeing how Sapph acted rather identically in the LoTR game, I'm going to be immediately suspicious of those who are voting for him even though they have Wintreath Werewolf experience. Consequently, my shit list presently is as follows: Kane, Minish, Moot, and TGN.
Crossing this with my calls after the first day, which was for reference:
Vro, NyghtOwl, Melehan, Cozmikrae, Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, and Minish, who I initially discounted because I liked the analysis, but now I'm definitely more suspect of because being in two townie kill chains is much more suspect, though not being around for EOD is definitely a valid excuse too, so I can't say still. Coz is also suspicious as hell still, because of the literally 3 MINUTES BEFORE THE DEADLINE unvote.
Vote with me if you want to cut off their necks~~~ ♫Vro though, while still oddly focused on killing me, did get someone to unvote Sapph, which would generally be enough to gain my trust, but I'm still unsure because he could still be a wolf coordinating with Coz, especially because he told the guy to UNVOTE rather than just vote TGN, and just accepting a 50-50 of killing the Seer to appear less suspect. TGN voting Sapph out of self preservation was fine at the beginning, but then keeping it after Sapph soft-not-so-soft claimed Seer is also SUPER suspect.
I'm not sure who we should kill right now, but I have a feeling that some people who are actually villagers might be targeting me, so I would not be opposed to a self lynch of myself to prove to them that they are in fact wrong and get them to bark up a correct tree. Then again, the analysis in this game generally has been quite sketch, apart from that of Minish, Smiles and HumanDawn, who I believe is the replacement for ENE, and the immediate posting after being brought in really makes me think town, because if I was brought in as a wolf, I'd definitely try to PM with my other wolves first.
So if we have to kill me for people to do better analysis, I'm all for it, but I'd prefer if not, because analysis this game has been shit and I can't really count on the townies bringing it home rn because I'm not fully confident Minish is town.
I really hope you aren't lynched because there isn't a case on you that I know of.
I agree about Minish - I want to Town read the slot but something in the back of my head tells me not to. I don't recall a case from her on you and yet she argues you should have been the counterwagon and that it was strange that it wasn't when 3 out of 18 living players in Day 3 are Mafia (and technically only 2 could change the wagon outside of you even if you are scum). Maybe it would hold more merit in a smaller game, but going by the numbers, it's unlikely Mafia had a large say in saving you from being lynched Day 3. If there was a strong case, I would argue it would have merit... but there wasn't.
I spent d3 stating the case against BSR. At the time he had posted like 5 times so there wasn't much of a case that could be had in terms of actions but there were people that kept suspecting him and not voting for him or someone like Kane who voted him 2 days in a row and then didn't vote him yesterday. The reason BSR should have been the counter yesterday is the fact that he was so talked about without anyone doing anything until that day and the thought that I had that he and Sapph were unaligned. I don't know where you got that I think mafia shifted the votes because that's not what I said at all. I think town spent time talking about BSR and then suddenly shifted again to TGN.
Also just saw your other post before submitting this. Yes people can have other suspicions they follow but the general discussion of BSR seemed odd. You're struggling to see how mafia can easily distance by throwing light suspicion on a scumbud and never doing anything about it?
And I laid it out yesterday how Silver was potentially distancing. It's like you're trying to shade me for stuff I've clearly explained before. But it came from Silver pushing BSR a lot but never once voting him. And Silver also continuously stating suspicion of Sapph but doing so in a way he could easily back out of later (saying he felt odd but that he needed to ISO before he could say for sure and never ISO'd him).
Also I'm fairly certain Silver was pushing to vote BSR before Silver himself was a wagon, so it wasn't that he was just voting elsewhere to save himself. Even once the wagons were him and TGN he said he would rather vote BSR if others would too but didn't really push it that hard.
I got it because you said you were hung up on BSR, and when you mentioned it as being a reason, I assumed that you think Mafia might have had something to do with it. If you're saying you think the Town shifted to TGN despite having reservations about BSR, then why would you even mention that it's one of the things that makes you hung up about BSR? All that would say is that the Town just suspected TGN more, and BSR voted TGN with the effort to save Sapph.
No, I'm not struggling to see how Mafia can shade BSR to distance, I'm struggling to see that actually happening in any way in this game with how low the odds of that seem, and because there isn't an actual link.
I'll look at BSR and Silver later, but I don't remember much linking them in the first place. Could also be that Silver was trying to see the momentum for a potential lynch on BSR. I've done it as Mafia before.
What do you think of Cozmikrae?
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 07:44:49 PM
Welp, given what Laurentus just said...
Unvote
Cool.
Who would you vote instead?
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 07:59:51 PM
And to end this thread, onto BSR:
I've been reading though, and something about the way he's been posting has been bothering me...though I can't exactly place what it is, but it's been giving me some weird vibes. Part of it is probably because of him saying this:QuoteSo I'm kicking myself that Sapph was still lynched even after I specifically stated that Sapph pretty much ONLY soft claims power roles when he's miffed at people who still suspect he's a "wolf" or something when he clearly isn't.
And from what I dug up, I never saw him actually say that.QuoteI'm going to Vote: TGN
Not only to semi protect Sapph, who appears to be doing some pretty good hinting here, but also because Vro wants to defend TGN, which makes me suspicious, because Ruguo was scum and because Hapi was innocent. Do we not remember that Ruguo was trying to tie Hapi and myself and Sapph together, and then Hapi was flipped and Ruguo flipped scum? That should be obvious enough. Maybe I'm relying too much on Valeria being similar here, but I definitely don't think that we should vote off Sapph right now, especially if the power role is in play as a possibility
Also as far as defending myself from a mention which is now like ages ago, Vro and Ruguo were anti me the whole game basically, which makes me really think that they're scum and working together, which I think is an appropriate conclusion from my situation. *shrug*QuoteLOL its been interesting to me as well. Perhaps they think I'm a better Laurentus Lite than I am in reality hahaha. I mean, either way, it')) backfire on them eventually so I dont know what they're doing? There are way too many townies for that not to occur...
Ideally we'd be voting Vro and not saving Sapph by lynching TGN, but I definitely don't like the last minute moves from people who are very vocal. That generally screams wolves dominating the narrative to me, which tends to make me more readily scum lean people who are dominating the conversation and making sweeping accusations against widely varying sets of players. Hilariously, my suspect list remains basically the same set of people it was after Hapi was killed, and is only more confidently Vro because he's really attacking me for... Not being active enough?
Activity, apart from the rare exception, is generally the wolves, and seeing that Ruguo flipped red, he's probably smart enough to have created a coordinated attack at the beginning with each wolf being a separate big personality, which is generally a good strategy. That's generally what I'd do if I were a wolf, and then painting anyone who objects to my questioning as suspicious or irrelevant as paranoid and wolfish. Which works quite well quite often
Sure, he mentions Sapph a few times about him doing some hints, but nowhere does he say anything about Sapph only does claims when he's miffed at people crying wolf on him. And he even claimed that his reason for voting TGN was to "Semi" save Sapph, but also because Vro wanted to defend TGN.
That coupled his "Ideally, we'd be voting Vro and not saving Sapph by lynching TGN" just really doesn't sit well with me, especially after he just got done saying that Sapph is a power role, so saving Sapph would pretty much be on the top of the list if he thought Sapph was genuinely softing a power role because of his reasoning he claimed to have stated in the first quote.
You have a point there about what BSR said today not matching what he said yesterday. I don't see how BSR claiming that his reason for voting TGN was to save Sapph but also because Vro defended TGN is incriminating.
I... don't get what you mean by him saying he would ideally vote Vro. He voted TGN who was a bigger suspect than Vroendel for quite a few players and I think already had a few votes then.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 11, 2021, 08:09:10 PM
Post by: TGN on February 11, 2021, 08:14:17 PM
2 for me
Post by: Laurentus on February 11, 2021, 08:18:50 PM
TGN - Doc, ExLight, Minish
Cozmik - HumanDawn
BSR - Michi
Post by: ExLight on February 11, 2021, 08:48:21 PM
who would my death clear?Your death doesn't hard clear anyone, the point in it is mainly to help reveal who the wolves might be by breaking the players into smaller groups based on who supported your lynch and who was against it since you were a major during D2 and D3. What we're wanting to do is sling out 3 wolves, not clear 14 remaining players.
page 69, nice
Post by: TGN on February 11, 2021, 09:20:58 PM
Post by: Doc on February 11, 2021, 10:06:23 PM
who would my death clear?
page 69, nice
Anyway it 'clears' (or really rather 'improves the possibility of being townies for'; there's basically no 100% surefire clears in this game at this point now that the Seer is dead) a different slate of people depending which way you flip. Going into specifics just means that the people on the other side get very invested in making sure you once again don't flip, start distancing/wagoning early, or both.
Frankly, if at this point a lynch somehow doesn't go off on you for the third night running - especially if it winds up another mislynch, I'm just gonna take it as pretty much ironclad proof (pun for the possibility that you're the Armored Titan originally not intended until I realized that it totally worked as one) that one of your scumbuds is powerwolfing hard to keep you alive for whatever reason, and thus I'll accordingly ignore you until we've finally rooted out your other two scumbuds.
Continually having you and (someone else who winds up lynched) up there gives us diddly to go off of, wagonomics-wise.
So I guess if you are town, do your best to not get lynched and pray to RNGesus that whoever the other guy is is scum.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 11, 2021, 11:01:57 PM
HumanDawn
Anubhav Ghosh
Red Mones
Vroendel
NyghtOwl
ExLight
Minish
BraveSirRobin
Michi
Doc
Wischland
Gerrick
TGN
Wintermoot
cozmikrae
Imaginative Kane
If there's a particular placement you're not sure on please ask me.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 11, 2021, 11:04:29 PM
Forgot to do this earlier:
Vote: Imaginative Kane
Post by: Vroendal on February 12, 2021, 12:28:36 AM
Town and town leans -
Red Mones
HumanDawn
Anubhav
Nyght
cozmik
Gerrick
ExLight
Michi
Doc
Legacy
BSR
Wisch
TGN
Nulls -
Minish
Scum leans -
Wintermoot
Kane
I should clarify that with TGN my read is based mostly on the different level of effort and formatting of his posts as compared to last game, as I have decided that I can not read him based off his tone, and his content has for the most part either been based on inaccurate information or was confusing to me personally. For Minish I'm hearing a townie tone, but her votes and her top town read suggestion still is making me wary, and I likely will not move her up to town lean even though I do not wish to think about lynching her until much later as I think my wariness is justified.
I'm voting Kane because of the allegations brought against his posts and because I feel his D3 vote was suspicious enough in itself, and at this point my reads list isn't telling me where much else I could go.
Vote - Imaginative Kane
I shall try to stick on my vote this time, Lau.
Post by: Doc on February 12, 2021, 12:35:21 AM
TGN - 3 (Doc, ExLight, Minish)
Cozmik - 1 (HumanDawn)
BSR - 1 (Michi)
Kane - 2 (LoS, Vroendal)
Seriously, where are everyone else's votes? It's 4ish hours to EOD. Town cannot be pulling this shit again after the flurry of bullshit at the end got the Seer lynched.
Post by: Red Mones on February 12, 2021, 12:35:38 AM
Vote: TGN
If this doesn't help to clear things up, maybe we need to PoE players until we find our scum like Lau did last game.
Post by: Red Mones on February 12, 2021, 12:36:37 AM
Seriously, where are everyone else's votes? It's 4ish hours to EOD. Town cannot be pulling this shit again after the flurry of bullshit at the end got the Seer lynched.The activity is driving people away. It certainly has for me, though I could've kept up had I not been busy over this week.
Post by: TGN on February 12, 2021, 12:45:25 AM
Vote: Imaginative Kane
Post by: Vroendal on February 12, 2021, 12:49:25 AM
I'll admit, I'm now completely lost in this game Lol. Anyways, I don't really see it with Kane, he seems to playing aas he usually does. I guess I'll throw on TGNI think voting TGN isn't a completely terrible idea, but doubtless even if you consider TGN a wolf there was at least one more wolf who voted Sapph, and personally I think Kane slipped by very easily in the Portal game. If we're lynching TGN, so be it, but I think Kane is even more likely to be a wolf, and I dislike how he used Wintermoot's vote as a jumping-off point to vote Sapph himself. I also dislike how his vote came after Sapph said he was more useful alive to town than dead, I realize I did not change my vote off of Sapph immediately after that myself, but it still hinted power role to me, and I know Kane read the LOTR game yet he still voted Sapph after the hint without commenting on it.
Vote: TGN
If this doesn't help to clear things up, maybe we need to PoE players until we find our scum like Lau did last game.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 12, 2021, 12:49:53 AM
Players:1. Ruguo
2. Red Mones
3. Vroendal
4. Gerrick5. Adorable Oracle Hapi
6. Anubhav Ghosh7. Sapphiron - Cop
8. Wischland
9. Minish
10. Michi
11. Imaginative Kane
12. BraveSirRobin
13. TGN
14. Wintermoot
15. NyghtOwl
16.Melehan
17. Doc
18. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
19. Alexander Valentine / ExLight
20. cozmikrae
21. Eastern New England / HumanDawn
Final Vote Count:
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
Not voting: Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Michi
From Day 3 EoD, I'm mostly bothered with Cozmikrae for his unvote putting a soft PR at risk and Anubhav Ghosh ignoring the Sapphiron soft claim. ExLight said he didn't necessarily trust the soft PR claim, but his vote was actually on TGN, not Sapphiron, so I can't really get bothered by that (sorry ExLight for the disappointed comment earlier).
I am okay with throwing TGN a bone for voting Sapphiron for survival and in the case that Sapphiron could be scum to help clear him, and he's new at the game too.
I want to know where @Imaginative Kane, @Wintermoot and @Legacy of Smile were doing. For me and Minish we weren't around EoD and I was asleep when the softclaim happened. Phase updates at 7AM and I didn't make an alarm to wake up at that time.
Out of Cozmikrae and Anubhav Ghosh, I don't know which one bothers me more. They were both off plays. Cozmikrae comes off as more experienced than Anubhav to me, so his play is more suspect.
Vote: Cozmikrae
I am a she btw.
So... actually this is my lack of experience showing here. I understood that Sapph was softing a role, but as I wasn't voting for him, I wasn't concerned with it. But at the end, I got caught up in sudden flash of intuition and last minute scum reads (Vro, Ghosh and ExLight). Suddenly concerned that I was lynching a townie, I jumped off the boat, forgetting to consider that I was putting a potential power role in danger. Hindsight is 20/20, I won't be doing that again. I completely agree, a vanilla townie TGN should have been sacrificed to save the seer. The whole concept of wagonomics and how my vote factors into influencing a lynch I didn't personally vote for is kinda new to me.
Quite a few noobies here... My biggest issue is how late the unvote was. You got a sudden flash and last minute reads exactly before EoD? I feel like that's a bit harder to believe. Anubhav claims ignorance to the situation, but you knew about the power role and what the lynch would mean.
Do you have other reads at least? Who would you vote today? (unless you have already voted somebody else, in which case ignore this part and i will check it out)
I haven't voted yet. Real life has been busy.
And yes, there was a flurry of posts at the end of the day, that's what I was reading and reacting to. It may be hard to believe, but the truth is often complex. I understood "don't lynch a power role" what I failed to understand was not lynching TGN would likely end in Sapph's lynch.
I have some rereading to do to decide on reads and my vote for tonight.
Post by: Vroendal on February 12, 2021, 12:53:43 AM
I haven't voted yet. Real life has been busy.What part of it exactly did you "fail to understand?" You knew that a tie would result in a coinflip because you sussed me D2 over my choice of inaction during the D1 vote where a coinflip occured. Did you not understand what the votecount was? I don't ask this question with malice (yet), I just want to understand what you're saying here.
And yes, there was a flurry of posts at the end of the day, that's what I was reading and reacting to. It may be hard to believe, but the truth is often complex. I understood "don't lynch a power role" what I failed to understand was not lynching TGN would likely end in Sapph's lynch.
I have some rereading to do to decide on reads and my vote for tonight.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 12, 2021, 12:58:53 AM
I haven't voted yet. Real life has been busy.What part of it exactly did you "fail to understand?" You knew that a tie would result in a coinflip because you sussed me D2 over my choice of inaction during the D1 vote where a coinflip occured. Did you not understand what the votecount was? I don't ask this question with malice (yet), I just want to understand what you're saying here.
And yes, there was a flurry of posts at the end of the day, that's what I was reading and reacting to. It may be hard to believe, but the truth is often complex. I understood "don't lynch a power role" what I failed to understand was not lynching TGN would likely end in Sapph's lynch.
I have some rereading to do to decide on reads and my vote for tonight.
No I didn't have the votecount in my head.
Post by: Gerrick on February 12, 2021, 01:14:23 AM
Vote: TGN
My other top scum read is cozmikrae. The only thing preventing me from voting her (besides TGN) is the fact she voted relatively early for Ruguo (vote number 4 of 9) on D2 (but that could've been Ruguo allowing her to bus them for town cred since they're now focused on hosting the next werewolf). Besides the fact that she pulled a Vro on D3 and unvoted TGN at the last minute (almost literally), which caused Sapphiron to get coinflip-lynched, her actions on D2 were suspicious.
Early on D2, her vote on TGN was only the second vote at the time (besides Doc's vote on Vro, as well as TGN's vote and unvote on Wintermoot if you count that). Later she switched her vote from TGN to Vroendal based on the fact that TGN gave a reads list (having made a promise that she'd unvote him if he did so, just as Ruguo did...) and that Vroendal caused Hapi's coinflip lynch on D1 (which she ironically did on D3...) -- note that her vote on Vroendal put him in the majority. She soon after switched to No Lynch immediately after Ruguo also voted for Vroendal. She had a short back and forth with Ruguo on why she shouldn't join the bandwagon on them (Vroendal had switched to vote for Ruguo immediately after cozmik's No Lynch vote, putting Ruguo at 3 votes versus Vro's 6). She replies to Ruguo, "But the TGN thing either links you two, or makes you town. I’m still inclined to think TGN is innocent. So still no lynch for me I suppose" (since Ruguo flipped scum, that means TGN is as well, right?). 17 minutes later, Melehan makes a comment about how both Ruguo and I were on Michi's wagon D1. This somehow was enough to make her switch to vote for Ruguo. Strange that after Ruguo flipped scum that she didn't immediately jump on me D3.
@cozmikrae, you've mentioned multiple times that you're suspicious of ExLight. What's pinging you about him?
Post by: Gerrick on February 12, 2021, 01:16:45 AM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 12, 2021, 01:30:21 AM
Vote: Imaginative Kane
Post by: Vroendal on February 12, 2021, 02:10:41 AM
No I didn't have the votecount in my head.You see, what I'm hung up on now that I think about it, is that you say this, but your quote here
Sus of exlight. I’ll need to do some rereading to say why. But I’m getting wolfy vibes.talks about my "alliance" with Ghosh, when my conversation with him took place on the previous page in which there was a prominent votecount that Doc gave with the two main wagons clearly laid out in the midst on my convo. I'm finding it less easy to believe you simply missed it.
Also sus of this sudden Vro/Ghosh alliance.
Post by: Gerrick on February 12, 2021, 02:12:55 AM
If you’re pitying them because they’re a newer player that’s fine, but it’s just part of the game and they’re just reaping what they sow, I feel a lot worse about someone that gets shot N1 regardless of their experience because they barely have a chance to do anything for themselves than someone lynched at D4 that was in the spotlight in the last 144h, but even so most (if not any) scum wouldn’t hold the kill. So yes, I’m not comfortable letting people play their own parallel game here in a game that is about teamwork like TGN did D2, it’s like letting a baby play with a beach ball in the middle of a soccer game but instead of a baby it’s a fully grown adult that is more than capable of understanding how they’re being disruptive.Came back to this to point out TGN's a 13 year old kid, so he literally isn't fully grown nor an adult. Regardless, I think he should be capable of realizing that how he's playing compared to everyone else is not helping his cause.
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 12, 2021, 02:20:31 AM
I had not seen that post (or most of the other posts) from that day when I made that vote.I'll admit, I'm now completely lost in this game Lol. Anyways, I don't really see it with Kane, he seems to playing aas he usually does. I guess I'll throw on TGNI think voting TGN isn't a completely terrible idea, but doubtless even if you consider TGN a wolf there was at least one more wolf who voted Sapph, and personally I think Kane slipped by very easily in the Portal game. If we're lynching TGN, so be it, but I think Kane is even more likely to be a wolf, and I dislike how he used Wintermoot's vote as a jumping-off point to vote Sapph himself. I also dislike how his vote came after Sapph said he was more useful alive to town than dead, I realize I did not change my vote off of Sapph immediately after that myself, but it still hinted power role to me, and I know Kane read the LOTR game yet he still voted Sapph after the hint without commenting on it.
Vote: TGN
If this doesn't help to clear things up, maybe we need to PoE players until we find our scum like Lau did last game.
In the interests of self preservation, even if I am not as opposed to the idea of the lynch happening unfortunately (similar to why Town of Salem Vigilantes die), I will try to close the gap. You all are definitely wasting time with this vote but there does not seem to be much I can do to defend myself that I have not already done.
Vote TGN
If TGN is voted off and ends up being town than I will not post in this thread the next day to make any defense (if I am still suspicious).
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 12, 2021, 02:21:55 AM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 12, 2021, 02:25:53 AM
No I didn't have the votecount in my head.You see, what I'm hung up on now that I think about it, is that you say this, but your quote hereSus of exlight. I’ll need to do some rereading to say why. But I’m getting wolfy vibes.talks about my "alliance" with Ghosh, when my conversation with him took place on the previous page in which there was a prominent votecount that Doc gave with the two main wagons clearly laid out in the midst on my convo. I'm finding it less easy to believe you simply missed it.
Also sus of this sudden Vro/Ghosh alliance.
I did miss it. Lol... There are a lot of posts to keep track of, and I felt rushed against the clock. Even if had I taken note of the count, I wouldn't have been able recount it in my head to remove my vote and be cognizant of the fact that I was causing a tie. I also had missed that Sapph, the power role in question, was the other wagon; again there's a lot to keep track of. There were a lot of little details that went into my missing the effect of my vote. I was also on my phone, which makes switching between pages difficult.
When I say the whole wagonomics thing is still not quite making sense, this is what I'm talking about. More experienced players are more practiced at keeping the relevant details in their heads, I am not. I went off a gut reaction that was growing in the last literally 5ish minutes of the game. I felt I was getting a handle on the people and the names in about D2, around Ruguo's lynch. The next day we added like 3 players. And a bunch of the quiet people came out of the woodwork. Many of you more experienced players have complained at the rate of posts in this game, I've never played forum mafia before and until today I've felt I've done a good job of keeping up.
Post by: Vroendal on February 12, 2021, 02:28:26 AM
Even just where you rank everyone on the suspo-meter. You're giving a fair amount of AtE, and there's no way of me knowing if you did read that post or not. I believe that you may not have read everything, it was an overwhelming day, but still your statement has some less than ideal defenses.
Post by: Red Mones on February 12, 2021, 02:39:21 AM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 12, 2021, 02:43:31 AM
Honestly, I think it might just be time to lynch TGN -- as other have pointed out -- based on the fact that it seems we're always gonna be coming back to him as one of the top wagons.
Vote: TGN
My other top scum read is cozmikrae. The only thing preventing me from voting her (besides TGN) is the fact she voted relatively early for Ruguo (vote number 4 of 9) on D2 (but that could've been Ruguo allowing her to bus them for town cred since they're now focused on hosting the next werewolf). Besides the fact that she pulled a Vro on D3 and unvoted TGN at the last minute (almost literally), which caused Sapphiron to get coinflip-lynched, her actions on D2 were suspicious.
Early on D2, her vote on TGN was only the second vote at the time (besides Doc's vote on Vro, as well as TGN's vote and unvote on Wintermoot if you count that). Later she switched her vote from TGN to Vroendal based on the fact that TGN gave a reads list (having made a promise that she'd unvote him if he did so, just as Ruguo did...) and that Vroendal caused Hapi's coinflip lynch on D1 (which she ironically did on D3...) -- note that her vote on Vroendal put him in the majority. She soon after switched to No Lynch immediately after Ruguo also voted for Vroendal. She had a short back and forth with Ruguo on why she shouldn't join the bandwagon on them (Vroendal had switched to vote for Ruguo immediately after cozmik's No Lynch vote, putting Ruguo at 3 votes versus Vro's 6). She replies to Ruguo, "But the TGN thing either links you two, or makes you town. I’m still inclined to think TGN is innocent. So still no lynch for me I suppose" (since Ruguo flipped scum, that means TGN is as well, right?). 17 minutes later, Melehan makes a comment about how both Ruguo and I were on Michi's wagon D1. This somehow was enough to make her switch to vote for Ruguo. Strange that after Ruguo flipped scum that she didn't immediately jump on me D3.
@cozmikrae, you've mentioned multiple times that you're suspicious of ExLight. What's pinging you about him?
So I'm trying to do an ISO of ExLight while simultaneously braiding my hair.
They were quite aggressive with their sussing. Talking about "optimal wagons for the day" didn't strike me as townie, but rather as a wolf tossing the accusations around trying to get someone lynched ASAP. When I said I was suspicious of them, they "pinky promised" that they were town, and Minish refused to back that up. That might say more about Minish than ExLight. Either way, a pinky promise is weak. Someone else said they were sus, "I'm clearly town" was the defense.
Aggressive and serious about the accusations, and lackluster, jokey defenses.
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 12, 2021, 02:48:18 AM
I think you all have actually convinced me that TGN could be a titan. The main reason is the posts I have seen from this day phase mentioning the confidence could be indicative of the Armored Titan (or whichever one is the one that has protection from lynching (its possible it could be a different titan for all we know)). I had been somewhat suspicious of them but I was in a pity state of mind (despite what I had seen in LOTR Werewolf, also I am not sure I actually read through the whole game; if I did that was when the game ended and not during this game (also pretty sure I only skimmed through the last day phases when I was reading that game)).
Honestly, I still am not sure if I really have a case against BSR and Wintermoot. I am seeing plenty of not suspicious signs from both but also the arguments made by others (along with memories from other games) are contributing to my own suspicions of them. I don't see a connection between either one or anyone else though. Maybe if I read through the whole thread I might find one (university is rough on my time (I do not lie about that despite that being a "convenient excuse" since I am sacrificing a significant amount of time making this post that I could have been using for this ASL assignment that requires my attention)).
My full reads list now are pretty much:
Town Lock
Myself (We seem to have different ideas of Town behavior. Voting away from bandwagons is definitely not suspicious in my book but aside from that last lynch that I hate myself for, I think I have been helpful overall, if paranoid (another thing that is not suspicious in my book)). Being too active and not active enough are some things I find suspicious. Too active makes me worried about powerwolving (even if they seem relatively safe), not active enough could be a quiet wolf or town (not much difference unfortunately and pressuring is something I am uncomfortable doing).
Town Lean and Null (at this point I don't see much difference because even the ones I had been thinking were fully town I can't help but think may still be against us in some way)
Everyone else ((If I find the time to fully read through the thread, then maybe I can differentiate people here.)
Scum side of Null
BSR, Wintermoot
Scum Lean
TGN
Oh Appeal to Emotion, that is what you are talking about. That is true I am doing a lot of that, it seems like most people do that though. Along with the Emotion I have been saying other things that I would think would help but apparently can mean completely different things to the people who see them otherwise.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 12, 2021, 02:51:36 AM
Post by: TGN on February 12, 2021, 03:10:04 AM
Post by: Gerrick on February 12, 2021, 03:51:30 AM
TGN (6): Doc, ExLight, Minish, Red Mones, Gerrick, Kane
Kane (4): Legacy, Vroendal, TGN, cozmik
BSR (1): Michi
cozmik (1): HumanDawn
No vote: Wischland, BSR, Wintermoot, Nyght, Anubhav
Post by: Gerrick on February 12, 2021, 03:54:38 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 12, 2021, 04:07:17 AM
are you serious?If you’re pitying them because they’re a newer player that’s fine, but it’s just part of the game and they’re just reaping what they sow, I feel a lot worse about someone that gets shot N1 regardless of their experience because they barely have a chance to do anything for themselves than someone lynched at D4 that was in the spotlight in the last 144h, but even so most (if not any) scum wouldn’t hold the kill. So yes, I’m not comfortable letting people play their own parallel game here in a game that is about teamwork like TGN did D2, it’s like letting a baby play with a beach ball in the middle of a soccer game but instead of a baby it’s a fully grown adult that is more than capable of understanding how they’re being disruptive.Came back to this to point out TGN's a 13 year old kid, so he literally isn't fully grown nor an adult. Regardless, I think he should be capable of realizing that how he's playing compared to everyone else is not helping his cause.
Post by: ExLight on February 12, 2021, 04:10:42 AM
So I'm trying to do an ISO of ExLight while simultaneously braiding my hair.I already pinkie promised to be Town, you're wasting your time. Both HumanDawn and Minish vowed that I haven't lied about that so far throughout two years of playing mafia (plus hundreds of popcorn games on discord). Just trust me on this one because you'll lose your sanity trying to ISO me in vain, and if you're Town I wouldn't want that.
They were quite aggressive with their sussing. Talking about "optimal wagons for the day" didn't strike me as townie, but rather as a wolf tossing the accusations around trying to get someone lynched ASAP. When I said I was suspicious of them, they "pinky promised" that they were town, and Minish refused to back that up. That might say more about Minish than ExLight. Either way, a pinky promise is weak. Someone else said they were sus, "I'm clearly town" was the defense.
Aggressive and serious about the accusations, and lackluster, jokey defenses.
Post by: Wischland on February 12, 2021, 04:10:58 AM
On TGN - the lack of a defense despite being on the line to be lynched again is strange, especially given that several people have said town would do whatever they can to defend themselves since they're the only ones they can trust. But for TGN, the lack of a defense kinda makes me think he is town. His scumbuds would probably advise him to try and defend himself, so the fact that he isn't makes me wonder if he's actually getting advice from anywhere. The way TGN acts strikes me more as the random acts of someone who really doesn't know what to do then someone acting new based on the directions of more experienced scumbuds.
BSR - Made more posts, all with pretty good logic as I can see. Since this is apparently BSR's normal way of playing I'm generally feeling better about BSR.
Cozmik, Kane - Lots of complicated stuff going on here. Honestly I haven't been able to follow all of today's developments on these two, but generally they both see sus and people I trust are bringing up pretty good points against them.
As for my vote, I keep going back and forth. I can see the value of an info lynch of TGN, but also I feel better voting for someone I think as more likely to be scum. So it's a tough call, but ultimately I think I'm gonna:
Vote: Imaginative Kane
Though I think even with my vote, TGN is on the chopping block by the looks of it.
Post by: ExLight on February 12, 2021, 04:12:59 AM
is this legit
What was up with some people D2 emphasizing how he's a lot more clever than he seems and how we should be expecting shit from him and all? sigh
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 12, 2021, 04:15:23 AM
After last day , I wish I am right here . I find Kane suspicious , there was sone hinting from Sapph , which if he is the seer , holds some meaning and the time at which it came , i lean on the fact that he made a scumread . It is not possible that he will try creating another wagon , with TGN's already flooding . Also the crude distancing of Ruguo in D2 , the indications of poem as said by NyghtOwl , the No lynch thing ... I find everything adding up
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 12, 2021, 04:18:29 AM
Imaginative Kane
After last day , I wish I am right here . I find Kane suspicious , there was sone hinting from Sapph , which if he is the seer , holds some meaning and the time at which it came , i lean on the fact that he made a scumread . It is not possible that he will try creating another wagon , with TGN's already flooding . Also the crude distancing of Ruguo in D2 , the indications of poem as said by NyghtOwl , the No lynch thing ... I find everything adding up
EBWOP , forgot to type out vote
Vote:Imaginative Kane
Post by: Gerrick on February 12, 2021, 04:27:37 AM
What the fuck you all mean he's 13 years old thoYeah, as far as we're all aware, he's 13. I think the D2 stuff was from people who played in the last Werewolf (the Lord of the Rings one (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0)) where he was scum and got pretty far because everyone wrote him off as town since he's so young and inexperienced. So they're saying that you should watch out for him as just because he's playing innocent doesn't mean he isn't scum.
is this legit
What was up with some people D2 emphasizing how he's a lot more clever than he seems and how we should be expecting shit from him and all? sigh
Post by: Wintermoot on February 12, 2021, 04:41:37 AM
Between Kane and TGN I will vote: TGN.
I don't have a strong read either way, certainly not enough to make a wagon on TGN bigger. On one hand, I still think it's unlikely that Ruguo would make a show of coaching him as a fellow wolf just in case one of them were exposed in the future. On the other hand, there's the post Sapph made:
Quote
Also, I don't believe it's that implausible for a person to be given the scum role twice in a role. You guys make it sound like Doc wasn't consecutively Wolf before.
The line seems out of place to me, coming at a time when Sapphiron was responding to the liklihood that he would be killed off, which makes me feel like it was supposed to be foreboding. Even if you believe that though, and we have a situation where someone is a wolf again, was he talking about TGN or Doc, both of whom were wolves in the last game?
Doc is voting for TGN as well, and has made much to do about a Vro-TGN connection (though not so much this round). As I pointed out last round, he also foreshadowed a situation pretty much like what ended up happening between Ruguo and TGN. The difference is in his situation he stated it would be proof that one of the people involved isn't a wolf, and yet he's been on TGN despite his own logic that should lead him to conclude that TGN isn't one. Unless I missed it, I don't think Doc ever replied to my post from last round about it, either.
So by itself I don't have a feel for TGN, but taken together I'm suspicious that either TGN, Doc, or both (lol, wouldn't that be a trip?) could be wolves. I know if TGN turns out to be town I'm going to look suspicious as well for voting with Kane (and against Vro? I thought I read that as a reason I was suspicious before), but the only alternative I could do is a vanity vote on Doc, and that seems kinda useless with less than an hour left in the round.
Ok, I don’t get why you’re putting this as if it’s hypercompetitive because this really isn’t about that, and ZD isn’t competitive at all but ok (feel free to visit us wink wink). We all have a team assigned to and we’re looking for ways to win with them. Wanting stronger players to survive until -Lo is just a consequence of that, it has nothing to do with being competitive.I think it's a cultural difference between sites. Wintreath has always been a community of friends, so the idea that we should kill off people (friends) whose playstyles aren't helping town can come off as a bit of a shock, even if you're technically right that doing so would probably help town by cutting down the "noise". I think for a lot of people it's more important to make sure everyone has a fun time playing than to win, and against that the idea can come across as competitive. I think that's where Michi is coming from.
It's more knowing what to look for to be honest. The reason why people are saying it's so obvious is because saying something like "I'm better off alive than dead" is a generally recognisable code for "I'm a power role" in most games so more experienced players probably noticed it out of habit.If that's all it takes to make people believe you're in a power role and not get voted off, then the wolves should be all over that shit. I saw it in the exact opposite way...the most generic defense you could make besides "I'm not the wolf". I'm not saying he should have revealed his role, I'm just saying a more comprehensive defense would have made me more hesitant to vote for him. I only had a chance to review the day a few hours before it ended, I didn't feel strongly either way between Sapph and TGN, and after changing my mind a few times between them (and once almost voting Vro as well), I decided Sapph was the more suspicious person to me between him and TGN.
I will say I'm honestly shocked that so many people believe someone saying they're better off alive than did is a reason not to vote for them. The way I see it, anybody is going to claim that if they're in trouble.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 12, 2021, 04:42:55 AM
Post by: TGN on February 12, 2021, 04:47:24 AM
What the fuck you all mean he's 13 years old thoyeah
is this legit
What was up with some people D2 emphasizing how he's a lot more clever than he seems and how we should be expecting shit from him and all? sigh
I'm 13
soon I'm 14
Post by: ExLight on February 12, 2021, 04:51:08 AM
oofWhat the fuck you all mean he's 13 years old thoyeah
is this legit
What was up with some people D2 emphasizing how he's a lot more clever than he seems and how we should be expecting shit from him and all? sigh
I'm 13
soon I'm 14
sorry buddy I thought you were older
Post by: Michi on February 12, 2021, 04:53:17 AM
I think it's a cultural difference between sites. Wintreath has always been a community of friends, so the idea that we should kill off people (friends) whose playstyles aren't helping town can come off as a bit of a shock, even if you're technically right that doing so would probably help town by cutting down the "noise". I think for a lot of people it's more important to make sure everyone has a fun time playing than to win, and against that the idea can come across as competitive. I think that's where Michi is coming from.
Yes that's where I was coming from. Since WW here has been a way of bringing people together and even helping new regional relations, that's more of what it's been for us. It's a competitive type of game, sure, but it's always been (well normally been until recent years) more about people just enjoying themselves and having a good time.
Post by: TGN on February 12, 2021, 05:02:28 AM
npoofWhat the fuck you all mean he's 13 years old thoyeah
is this legit
What was up with some people D2 emphasizing how he's a lot more clever than he seems and how we should be expecting shit from him and all? sigh
I'm 13
soon I'm 14
sorry buddy I thought you were older
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 12, 2021, 05:40:35 AM
Nothing personal, I just want a more clear picture of what happened yesterday. I would honestly prefer coz right now, but I'm also sketched out by this weird last minute Kane wagon, even though I'm not necessarily opposed to it.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 12, 2021, 05:57:21 AM
Post by: HumanDawn on February 12, 2021, 05:59:17 AM
So I'm trying to do an ISO of ExLight while simultaneously braiding my hair.I already pinkie promised to be Town, you're wasting your time. Both HumanDawn and Minish vowed that I haven't lied about that so far throughout two years of playing mafia (plus hundreds of popcorn games on discord). Just trust me on this one because you'll lose your sanity trying to ISO me in vain, and if you're Town I wouldn't want that.
They were quite aggressive with their sussing. Talking about "optimal wagons for the day" didn't strike me as townie, but rather as a wolf tossing the accusations around trying to get someone lynched ASAP. When I said I was suspicious of them, they "pinky promised" that they were town, and Minish refused to back that up. That might say more about Minish than ExLight. Either way, a pinky promise is weak. Someone else said they were sus, "I'm clearly town" was the defense.
Aggressive and serious about the accusations, and lackluster, jokey defenses.
ftr I haven’t yet vouched for this
Post by: Laurentus on February 12, 2021, 06:07:18 AM
TGN - 8 (BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight, Gerrick, Imaginative Kane, Minish, Red Mones, Wintermoot)
Imaginative Kane - 6 (Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Legacy of Smiles, TGN, Vroendal, Wischland)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Michi)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Human Dawn)
TGN is therefore the lynch. He is a plain old Scout.
It is now the start of another night phase.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 13, 2021, 06:56:19 AM
Have you checked out Spyfall yet? It's another game we play here on the forums, where all players except one are given a location. That one player is the spy, and their mission is to guess the location, while everyone else's mission is to guess the identity of the spy. They do this by asking questions that they think will help them figure it out...one person directs a question to someone, then the person who answered that question asks one to someone else.
Compared to Werewolf, it's much less of a time or energy investment: you wait until you are asked a question, answer it, and then ask someone else one.
You might think I have a reason for saying all this, and you'd be right. Sign-ups for the next game of Spyfall are open (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7037.0), and we still have a few slots open! If you've enjoyed playing games here on Wintreath, be sure to check it out and consider signing up! If you're still iffy about how the game is played, we have a rules and tips (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=4116.0) topic with more information. Good luck to those who play! :)
Now back to your regularly scheduled Werewolf (as soon as Lau gets on :P)
Post by: Laurentus on February 13, 2021, 07:04:56 AM
It is now the start of day 5.
And sorry for starting this a bit later, everyone. It's the first weekend I've been able to sleep in for a while.
Post by: HumanDawn on February 13, 2021, 07:45:57 AM
(https://i.gifer.com/EK1R.gif)
Those Titans will die... again, and again, and again!
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 13, 2021, 07:55:03 AM
Post by: Michi on February 13, 2021, 08:05:51 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 09:58:25 AM
I’ll start isoing stuff based on the flips rn
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 12:09:49 PM
This is probably going to be the third day in a row where we discuss BSR , have had him as a major wagon and it goes absolutely nowhere. Definitely be wary of people who are trying to drag this conversation on day after day (particularly if they aren't adding anything else) because I think that's exactly what the wolves are doing. Let's come to a consensus on what we do here by the end of the day so that we can move the conversation onwards.
I'm also really concerned that there are a lot of living players who have either done very wolfy things, haven't done any towny things or are generally inactive and there are certainly multiple townspeople in that list. Please try to clear your slots or else wolves are going to continue to have a field day lynching LHF townies. If you're a newer player and you're stuck on what to do, just post some reads or opinions to start then mention me if you want and I'll question you on them.
As for who the wolves are? There are most likely 1-2 in the Sapphiron pushers (Kane/cozmikrae/Wintermoot) and then we can hopefully work on a team from there. From the fact that our conversations are going nowhere, I'm starting to suspect that we have at least one wolf who is at least semi-engaged in conversations (although I'm not sure who yet). Lynching here isn't a priority for me right now but remember this if I'm dead and we're looking for the last scum member.
HumanDawn wasn't who I expected to die and I'm wondering why. They suspected cozmikrae, some shade on Gerrick and didn't appear to want to lynch BSR. Interested on opinions here of it it was a strong player kill / defender dodge or based on one of the above reads. I'm personally thinking towards it being to either (mis)chop BSR easier or to protect a wolf!cozmikrae.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
Post by: Laurentus on February 13, 2021, 12:39:04 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 01:31:35 PM
To me Melehan seems TWTBW , even with his rigorous dramatic statements about sacrificing Hapi ???:glare:
didn't you say this was your first werewolf game
how come you know obscure old school terms like TWTBW
Post by: TGN on February 13, 2021, 01:40:46 PM
(I will never post on the board)
DEAD
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 02:20:09 PM
ExLight* - 104
Minish - 99
Vroendel - 95
Red Mones - 93
cozmikrae - 57
Legacy of Smiles* - 49
Anubhav Ghosh* - 38
NyghtOwl - 33
Doc - 32
Gerrick - 24
Imaginative Kane - 24
Michi - 17
Wischland - 15
Wintermoot - 13
BSR - 10
* subs
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 02:21:07 PM
Looks like it's time for Anubhav to carry. :)To me Melehan seems TWTBW , even with his rigorous dramatic statements about sacrificing Hapi ???:glare:
didn't you say this was your first werewolf game
how come you know obscure old school terms like TWTBW
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 02:22:38 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 02:40:09 PM
What even is this bull? @Anubhav Ghosh for how long have you been playing Mafia/Werewolf and why'd you lie?
Post by: Minish on February 13, 2021, 02:52:18 PM
They also used terms like FoS and EBWOP before faking not knowing what EBWOP is, lol.
What even is this bull? @Anubhav Ghosh for how long have you been playing Mafia/Werewolf and why'd you lie?
He never used EBWOP and then faked not knowing what it meant. He asked if he used it right his first time and then used it a second time.
There's also an easy explanation for why he knows those terms but I'll himself.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 02:54:17 PM
Post by: Minish on February 13, 2021, 02:58:01 PM
They also used terms like FoS and EBWOP before faking not knowing what EBWOP is, lol.
What even is this bull? @Anubhav Ghosh for how long have you been playing Mafia/Werewolf and why'd you lie?
He never used EBWOP and then faked not knowing what it meant. He asked if he used it right his first time and then used it a second time.
There's also an easy explanation for why he knows those terms but I'll himself.
*I'll let him defend himself. Geez just missed half of that last sentence.
Post by: Gerrick on February 13, 2021, 03:01:16 PM
Vote: cozmikrae
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 03:05:53 PM
Oh, you're right about the EBWOP, I got it backwards. Hmm.They also used terms like FoS and EBWOP before faking not knowing what EBWOP is, lol.
What even is this bull? @Anubhav Ghosh for how long have you been playing Mafia/Werewolf and why'd you lie?
He never used EBWOP and then faked not knowing what it meant. He asked if he used it right his first time and then used it a second time.
There's also an easy explanation for why he knows those terms but I'll himself.
I still think it's bull because if someone can use terms like FoS and TWTBW they have more than enough experience to know what Softing is. ùmú
Post by: Minish on February 13, 2021, 03:17:43 PM
That's not necessarily true. Those are terms and softing is a concept. I already said there's a very easy explanation for why he would know them.
Also I was waiting for some others to weigh in before I gave some thoughts. Because I wanted to see who sussed who going into this day. It seems like a few people are already going the way that I was waiting for, in sussing Cozmikrae because HD died. The post I quoted below of Cozmikrae's near eod yesterday sounds pretty genuine to me. And the HD kill seemed like a way to potentially go forward with a Cozmikrea lynch today. Because I don't see why a scum team with Cozmik on it would kill HD just to put the suspicion on her today because of it.
No I didn't have the votecount in my head.You see, what I'm hung up on now that I think about it, is that you say this, but your quote hereSus of exlight. I’ll need to do some rereading to say why. But I’m getting wolfy vibes.talks about my "alliance" with Ghosh, when my conversation with him took place on the previous page in which there was a prominent votecount that Doc gave with the two main wagons clearly laid out in the midst on my convo. I'm finding it less easy to believe you simply missed it.
Also sus of this sudden Vro/Ghosh alliance.
I did miss it. Lol... There are a lot of posts to keep track of, and I felt rushed against the clock. Even if had I taken note of the count, I wouldn't have been able recount it in my head to remove my vote and be cognizant of the fact that I was causing a tie. I also had missed that Sapph, the power role in question, was the other wagon; again there's a lot to keep track of. There were a lot of little details that went into my missing the effect of my vote. I was also on my phone, which makes switching between pages difficult.
When I say the whole wagonomics thing is still not quite making sense, this is what I'm talking about. More experienced players are more practiced at keeping the relevant details in their heads, I am not. I went off a gut reaction that was growing in the last literally 5ish minutes of the game. I felt I was getting a handle on the people and the names in about D2, around Ruguo's lynch. The next day we added like 3 players. And a bunch of the quiet people came out of the woodwork. Many of you more experienced players have complained at the rate of posts in this game, I've never played forum mafia before and until today I've felt I've done a good job of keeping up.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 03:28:12 PM
If cozmik is a wolf then honestly I think I can predict exactly what they are planning today and I might be able to catch them in the act later.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 03:28:53 PM
My issue is: if cozmikrae was a wolf, would the mafia really kill HumanDawn? Although I suppose we could WIFOM this all day.*would the mafia really kill the only person to vote cozmik?
If cozmik is a wolf then honestly I think I can predict exactly what they are planning today and I might be able to catch them in the act later.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 13, 2021, 03:55:36 PM
To me Melehan seems TWTBW , even with his rigorous dramatic statements about sacrificing Hapi ???:glare:
didn't you say this was your first werewolf game
how come you know obscure old school terms like TWTBW
I am the one who keeps the preps ready , I used the guide pinned on discord werewolf chat 🤣
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 03:57:08 PM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 13, 2021, 03:59:52 PM
They also used terms like FoS and EBWOP before faking not knowing what EBWOP is, lol.
What even is this bull? @Anubhav Ghosh for how long have you been playing Mafia/Werewolf and why'd you lie?
U never knew about pinned messages , thanks to Lau for making those , i have had been more lost otherwise . As of the game , I would still insist that this one is my very first one , if u think that me knowing terms is sus , well the scums would be enjoying that thing (and so would u if u turn out scum lol)
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 13, 2021, 04:03:34 PM
@ExLight
That's not necessarily true. Those are terms and softing is a concept. I already said there's a very easy explanation for why he would know them.
Also I was waiting for some others to weigh in before I gave some thoughts. Because I wanted to see who sussed who going into this day. It seems like a few people are already going the way that I was waiting for, in sussing Cozmikrae because HD died. The post I quoted below of Cozmikrae's near eod yesterday sounds pretty genuine to me. And the HD kill seemed like a way to potentially go forward with a Cozmikrea lynch today. Because I don't see why a scum team with Cozmik on it would kill HD just to put the suspicion on her today because of it.[r]No I didn't have the votecount in my head.You see, what I'm hung up on now that I think about it, is that you say this, but your quote hereSus of exlight. I’ll need to do some rereading to say why. But I’m getting wolfy vibes.talks about my "alliance" with Ghosh, when my conversation with him took place on the previous page in which there was a prominent votecount that Doc gave with the two main wagons clearly laid out in the midst on my convo. I'm finding it less easy to believe you simply missed it.
Also sus of this sudden Vro/Ghosh alliance.
I did miss it. Lol... There are a lot of posts to keep track of, and I felt rushed against the clock. Even if had I taken note of the count, I wouldn't have been able recount it in my head to remove my vote and be cognizant of the fact that I was causing a tie. I also had missed that Sapph, the power role in question, was the other wagon; again there's a lot to keep track of. There were a lot of little details that went into my missing the effect of my vote. I was also on my phone, which makes switching between pages difficult.
When I say the whole wagonomics thing is still not quite making sense, this is what I'm talking about. More experienced players are more practiced at keeping the relevant details in their heads, I am not. I went off a gut reaction that was growing in the last literally 5ish minutes of the game. I felt I was getting a handle on the people and the names in about D2, around Ruguo's lynch. The next day we added like 3 players. And a bunch of the quiet people came out of the woodwork. Many of you more experienced players have complained at the rate of posts in this game, I've never played forum mafia before and until today I've felt I've done a good job of keeping up.
I don't think I will hit cozmik right now . My main wagon option would still be Kane and Moot , but I am open to suggestions
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 04:06:19 PM
Vote: Imaginative Kane
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 04:11:12 PM
...ohTo me Melehan seems TWTBW , even with his rigorous dramatic statements about sacrificing Hapi ???:glare:
didn't you say this was your first werewolf game
how come you know obscure old school terms like TWTBW
I am the one who keeps the preps ready , I used the guide pinned on discord werewolf chat 🤣
this is super fair actually, lol
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 04:12:38 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 04:13:42 PM
@"Legacy of Smiles"
[Mention]Legacy of Smiles[/Mention]
Test
Post by: Minish on February 13, 2021, 04:14:16 PM
Also forgot to mention that based on Kane's posts yesterday I guess I didn't pick up on anything d2.
I'm a little wary of going for Kane just yet. Seeing as all of our tie/close wagons seem to have likely been town/town. And the one scum lynch the wagon was overkill. But I plan on looking at voting and stuff later (probably tomorrow tbh cause I'll have to be not lazy and bust out the laptop), so who knows how I'll feel after that.
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 04:19:17 PM
He's a bit all over the place with his votes and reads, plus overdefensiveness. Is that normal for him?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 04:24:54 PM
Test
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 04:25:07 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 04:27:13 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 04:38:22 PM
ExLight, have you gotten anywhere with your reads as of yet? Interested where you're at right now.Sorry, I had a test yesterday so I didn't really had the time to make a readslist. I'm currently fetching everyone's votes for analysis atm, and I'm still not sure how to interpret the flips, but I'll try to make a rainbow list for this post.
ExLight
Red Mones
Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
Anubhav Ghosh
Minish
Wintermoot
Wischland
NyghtOwl
cozmikrae
Doc
Gerrick
Vroendal
Imaginative Kane
BraveSirRobin
Michi
Mixed feelings on the italicized ones.
This lime isn't limey enough! ùmú
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 13, 2021, 04:55:08 PM
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 13, 2021, 04:56:49 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 05:08:33 PM
Curious as to why you think I'm red @ExLightIt's just a scumlean, I'm mildly on the fence about you. I just mainly can't remember much from you.
A very limited amount of posts, weird timing when people start debating your slot, votes either super early or super late in the wagons, and a readlist that seem to be a bit too focused on the D1 wagon.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 05:10:48 PM
Thanks, this is great! There's two reads I'd like to ask you on in particular, those being Wintermoot in the limes and Michi in your oranges. When you get chance, would you mind going over your thoughts on these two briefly?ExLight, have you gotten anywhere with your reads as of yet? Interested where you're at right now.Sorry, I had a test yesterday so I didn't really had the time to make a readslist. I'm currently fetching everyone's votes for analysis atm, and I'm still not sure how to interpret the flips, but I'll try to make a rainbow list for this post.
ExLight
Red Mones
Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
Anubhav Ghosh
Minish
Wintermoot
Wischland
NyghtOwl
cozmikrae
Doc
Gerrick
Vroendal
Imaginative Kane
BraveSirRobin
Michi
Mixed feelings on the italicized ones.
This lime isn't limey enough! ùmú
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 05:29:30 PM
Thanks, this is great! There's two reads I'd like to ask you on in particular, those being Wintermoot in the limes and Michi in your oranges. When you get chance, would you mind going over your thoughts on these two briefly?Just reminding that some reads are likely to change once I finish doing vote analysis so the reads are really memory based.
For Wintermoot I liked the overall tone of his posts, they seem constructive and pushing discussion. I also remember him doing a super detailed vote timeline D1 that kinda stuck to me as something super townie, because I rarely see scum doing this kind of thing specially early in the game.
As for Michi, I was rereading D1 and realized his defense wasn't as good as I thought. He was being called out for antagonizing people voting, not for not voting specifically. In his defense he proves that he has both voted and not voted in previous games, sure, but that's not what he was being called out for, so he didn't really make a counterargument. I'm also not a fan on how he dropped off the game D3 and most of his posts in the other days are focused on game philosophy rather than game discussion/planning.
He does have some interactions and voting Silver when it was speeding up going for him, though, which is mainly why I'm kinda having mixed opinions on him.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 13, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
I barely remember this player. I think this link is ridiculous.
Also, TGN flipped town. As I was completely convinced he was. With the exception of Hapi in D1, I have been on no wagons that ended in a town lynch. I think should speak for my judgment and my desire to help town.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 13, 2021, 06:45:01 PM
ebwop
Post by: cozmikrae on February 13, 2021, 06:49:17 PM
Also I'm pretty confident coz isn't a wolf now... no wolf pack would be stupid enough to kill the one person voting for one of them, and also the last minute switch is significantly less incriminating now that we know both TGN and Sapph are good guys
They’re probably using this to capitalize on the suspicion I picked up yesterday to drive a mislynch. If you guys vote for me, you’ll vote off yet another town player. I think we need to pay attention to who’s driving the conversations around the wagons that flipped town.
Post by: Vroendal on February 13, 2021, 06:49:32 PM
Can anyone give me a few Vro games for me to skim?My voting patterns are usually all over the place from what I remember. I've only played 5 games before this just so you know, one of which I died in N1 as town. I don't think my reads have been "all over the place" at all, I think that I have laid them out clearly and that they have progressed as my thoughts on the game have progressed, could you explain what you mean by that? Overdefensiveness does not exist with me, if I don't want to die I will defend myself from pushes, I don't see what's wrong with that.
He's a bit all over the place with his votes and reads, plus overdefensiveness. Is that normal for him?
First game: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6530.675 (subbed in as town page 46, game closed)
Second game: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6575.0 (scum lynchbait, basically jester, lost)
Third game: https://forums.bulbagarden.net/index.php?threads/the-best-anime-spongemafia-endgame-n-is-for-no-survivors-mafia-win.280579/ (scum idek what role, won)
Fifth game: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.0 (town tree stump, won)
If I had to say a scum team, I would say Kane, Wintermoot, and the last one I'm unsure of but I'm leaning Minish. If I'm wrong on either of the first two, I'll re-evaluate.
Vote - Imaginative Kane
I'm voting Kane for a number of reasons including basic suspiciousness of his vote on Sapph, if you ISO his posts you'll find that he's used a Wintermoot post as a jumping-off point for a Sapph vote, his defense and posts aren't really cutting it for me, and we need to progress this game.
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 06:57:19 PM
@Minish which page in D2 you thought you had seen something?
I saw another thing that makes me not want lynch him when rereading D1.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 13, 2021, 06:58:19 PM
For the same reasons as yesterday, the sapph vote.
Post by: Vroendal on February 13, 2021, 06:59:26 PM
HumanDawn wasn't who I expected to die and I'm wondering why. They suspected cozmikrae, some shade on Gerrick and didn't appear to want to lynch BSR. Interested on opinions here of it it was a strong player kill / defender dodge or based on one of the above reads. I'm personally thinking towards it being to either (mis)chop BSR easier or to protect a wolf!cozmikrae.I think it's likely that they killed him because he was being town-read by a majority of players. Strong player, sure, he did stimulate conversation on less talked about points. I don't know if it was necessarily a defender dodge, could have been. I don't think trying to ascertain whether a kill was based on the reads of that player s very helpful at this point unless we start to see worrying patterns later on. Right now it's going to be WIFOM if they killed to draw pushes off of themselves, if they were framing townies that were scum-read, or if it was just a defender dodge.
Post by: Vroendal on February 13, 2021, 07:01:05 PM
Can we not do Kane today? I have a bad feeling about him.Do tell.
@Minish which page in D2 you thought you had seen something?
I saw another thing that makes me not want lynch him when rereading D1.
If it's not Kane it's very likely to be Wintermoot, we have to start somewhere. Propose a good alternative, and maybe I'll agree with you.
Post by: Minish on February 13, 2021, 07:05:44 PM
Can we not do Kane today? I have a bad feeling about him.
@Minish which page in D2 you thought you had seen something?
I saw another thing that makes me not want lynch him when rereading D1.
24.
Also @Vroendal, how do you coincide the idea of me and Kane possibly being scum, with me pointing out that I thought I saw something in regards to Kane and then walking that back? That's not how I would interact with a scumbud.
Also like, if I'm scum this game I'm playing like shit. Ex should see that actually. Y'all can say "you can change your meta since you know it" but nothing I've done has been my scum meta at all and I couldn't change everything. I've had some shit reads on people I've barely played with before (funny I've played with Silver a bit and called him out as suspicious d1), but as scum I know how to look super townie because I have all the answers.
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 07:08:26 PM
I actually ISOed Wintermoot after Smiles asked me to explain it and I think I'd actually drop him to orange, so I'd prefer a Wintermoot lynch lol.Can we not do Kane today? I have a bad feeling about him.Do tell.
@Minish which page in D2 you thought you had seen something?
I saw another thing that makes me not want lynch him when rereading D1.
If it's not Kane it's very likely to be Wintermoot, we have to start somewhere. Propose a good alternative, and maybe I'll agree with you.
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 07:16:47 PM
Overdefensiveness does not exist with me, if I don't want to die I will defend myself from pushes, I don't see what's wrong with that.you literally demanded sapph to provide a full reasoning over a joke vote when they random voted you D1 in page 4 though :-\
Post by: Vroendal on February 13, 2021, 07:21:22 PM
Yeah, your posts are giving me pause or I would have pushed you harder. Still though, you could have walked back on Kane precisely to make that kind of argument, I think it's within the realm of possibility. A lot of the time your counter-arguments put me into WIFOM reasoning, which I don't like. It's also easy enough to put suspicion on a fellow scum D1, though I do concede that it's a good point in your favor from an objective viewpoint.Can we not do Kane today? I have a bad feeling about him.
@Minish which page in D2 you thought you had seen something?
I saw another thing that makes me not want lynch him when rereading D1.
24.
Also @Vroendal, how do you coincide the idea of me and Kane possibly being scum, with me pointing out that I thought I saw something in regards to Kane and then walking that back? That's not how I would interact with a scumbud.
Also like, if I'm scum this game I'm playing like shit. Ex should see that actually. Y'all can say "you can change your meta since you know it" but nothing I've done has been my scum meta at all and I couldn't change everything. I've had some shit reads on people I've barely played with before (funny I've played with Silver a bit and called him out as suspicious d1), but as scum I know how to look super townie because I have all the answers.
Who would you place as scum, Minish?
Post by: Vroendal on February 13, 2021, 07:22:51 PM
Sapph hadn't spoken yet, I hadn't spoken yet, he didn't say it was RNG at first, I reasoned that he could have been trying to poke me out for reaction information, and I responded accordingly.Overdefensiveness does not exist with me, if I don't want to die I will defend myself from pushes, I don't see what's wrong with that.you literally demanded sapph to provide a full reasoning over a joke vote when they random voted you D1 in page 4 though :-\
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 07:56:19 PM
Well, yea, that's why we random vote, to get some reactions lol. And you gave quite the one.Sapph hadn't spoken yet, I hadn't spoken yet, he didn't say it was RNG at first, I reasoned that he could have been trying to poke me out for reaction information, and I responded accordingly.Overdefensiveness does not exist with me, if I don't want to die I will defend myself from pushes, I don't see what's wrong with that.you literally demanded sapph to provide a full reasoning over a joke vote when they random voted you D1 in page 4 though :-\
Post by: Vroendal on February 13, 2021, 08:06:36 PM
Well, yea, that's why we random vote, to get some reactions lol. And you gave quite the one.Go big or go home.
So to clarify and make sure I understand, you think Kane is town for something you're not telling us yet and you have a bad feeling about his lynch, and you think Wintermoot is town for being constructive.
You think Michi is scum based on his defense from D1, and that BSR is scum, why again?
Post by: Minish on February 13, 2021, 08:39:04 PM
Yeah, your posts are giving me pause or I would have pushed you harder. Still though, you could have walked back on Kane precisely to make that kind of argument, I think it's within the realm of possibility. A lot of the time your counter-arguments put me into WIFOM reasoning, which I don't like. It's also easy enough to put suspicion on a fellow scum D1, though I do concede that it's a good point in your favor from an objective viewpoint.Can we not do Kane today? I have a bad feeling about him.
@Minish which page in D2 you thought you had seen something?
I saw another thing that makes me not want lynch him when rereading D1.
24.
Also @Vroendal, how do you coincide the idea of me and Kane possibly being scum, with me pointing out that I thought I saw something in regards to Kane and then walking that back? That's not how I would interact with a scumbud.
Also like, if I'm scum this game I'm playing like shit. Ex should see that actually. Y'all can say "you can change your meta since you know it" but nothing I've done has been my scum meta at all and I couldn't change everything. I've had some shit reads on people I've barely played with before (funny I've played with Silver a bit and called him out as suspicious d1), but as scum I know how to look super townie because I have all the answers.
Who would you place as scum, Minish?
I mean I kinda walked it back the previous day a bit too. I've tentatively gave him a slight town read because of it but said I wouldn't be upset with people voting him because I was really unsure it was something to read into or not. If I was trying to give a scumbud a soft clear it would be odd to do it in that way.
And yeah all counterarguments are typically wifom. But I feel like if people really look at my arguments they can see they're genuine and not some bs that I made up because I slipped or wanted to cause a mislynch.
As for who I would place as scum? I really have no clue at the moment. I'll get back to you after I wake up and do some ISOs. Gut feeling wants to say something like BSR, Winter, and Wisch. But something also feels not good with that gut feeling. I have a little voice in the back of my head saying Doc, but man I really was townreading him earlier.
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 09:07:09 PM
D1 votes:
1. Ruguo
Doc > Michi
2. Adorable Oracle Hapi:
Red Mones > cozmik
3. Melehan:
Hapi
4. Sapphiron:
Vroendal
5. TGN:
Shapphiron > Unvote? (he wasn't voting Michi, so was he unvoting or actually voting Michi here?) > Laurentus > Unvote > No Lynch
6. Eastern New England / HumanDawn:
no votes
7. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles:
no votes
8. Alexander Valentine / ExLight:
no votes
9. Anubhav Ghosh:
no votes
10. Michi:
no votes
11. BraveSirRobin:
no votes
12. Red Mones:
Hapi > Melehan > Unvote > Ruguo
13. Vroendal:
Michi > Unvote > Michi > Unvote
14. Gerrick:
Michi
15. Wischland:
Michi
16. Minish:
Michi > Red Mones > Michi
17. Imaginative Kane:
No Lynch > BraveSirRobin
18. Wintermoot:
Red Mones
19. NyghtOwl:
Wintermoot > Hapi
20. Doc:
Hapi
21. cozmikrae:
Red Mones > Unvote > Hapi
Doc > Michi
2. Adorable Oracle Hapi:
Red Mones > cozmik
3. Melehan:
Hapi
4. Sapphiron:
Vroendal
5. TGN:
Shapphiron > Unvote? (he wasn't voting Michi, so was he unvoting or actually voting Michi here?) > Laurentus > Unvote > No Lynch
6. Eastern New England / HumanDawn:
no votes
7. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles:
no votes
8. Alexander Valentine / ExLight:
no votes
9. Anubhav Ghosh:
no votes
10. Michi:
no votes
11. BraveSirRobin:
no votes
12. Red Mones:
Hapi > Melehan > Unvote > Ruguo
13. Vroendal:
Michi > Unvote > Michi > Unvote
14. Gerrick:
Michi
15. Wischland:
Michi
16. Minish:
Michi > Red Mones > Michi
17. Imaginative Kane:
No Lynch > BraveSirRobin
18. Wintermoot:
Red Mones
19. NyghtOwl:
Wintermoot > Hapi
20. Doc:
Hapi
21. cozmikrae:
Red Mones > Unvote > Hapi
Final votecount:
Ruguo - 1 (Red Mones)
Red Mones - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
D1 general recap and analysis:
Page 1:
- Random Votes, not much to be seen here.
Page 2:
- Doc overreacting over what's likely a joke vote.
- Cozmikrae keeps vote on Red, says it's pressure to see their reaction.
- Michi's controversial statement, and BSR likes the post. Consistent with them both not voting.
Page 3:
- Hapi makes a point calling out Doc. Doc's answer does not address that point properly. (If I remember correctly Hapi kept insisting she was a turret in Portal 1 and I also pushed her lynch back then, so I kinda see how it's different here, but still).
- Vroendal accuses Hapi vs Doc of distancing. (why "distancing" instead of real opposition?)
Page 4:
- Mel memeing. Red wondering if her liking posts is indicative or something and backing off.
Page 5:
- More Mel memeing
- Small discussion on the importance of a D1 lynch.
- Vro makes a good point against Michi's incoherence.
Page 6:
- Silver votes Michi while asking him to provide an explanation, adding momentum to the wagon.
- Nyghts votes Hapi (kind of a policy lynch vote)
Page 7:
- Silver throws shade at Ogum (Smiles). Suggests that it's distancing. Lol. He further pushes that he's demanding an answer from. He seems sure Ogum is scum; trying to push a lynch or a bus? Makes me think of Ogum (Smiles)/Silver in different teams.
- Kane pushes that roleplaying is a scumtell, however doesn't vote his scumlean.
- Mel's readlist.
Page 8:
- cozmikrae pushes Red more, and Red defends cozmikrae.
- Michi provides his defense. On a second thought not as solid as I thought since it's not really hitting the core of the accusation. At the same time kinda overdefensive for someone that seems to have thrown the game?
Page 9:
- Kane makes a small vote analysis.
- Michi attempts to explain his defense further. I feel some sort of spite towards new mafia and considering it hostile towards newer players. I think some of these are fair observations on a personal level. Suggesting who the cop should check this early isn't good though. I find it kinda funny that Sapph ended up doing it anyway, if it wasn't a coincidence it was bit of a risky move if Michi is scum since scum could've killed them so we didn't have any results (maybe they tried to but the doctor also saw this post and stopped it? hmm). Saying they won't vote because they're afraid of killing off a role this early is silly unless they're insanely superstitious; even if it was at random, there was a higher chance of hitting scum than a Power Role, and a much higher chance of hitting vanilla.
- Strong push on Michi from Vro; Vro started the wagon on Michi with their vote observation, so this is coherent. Michi doesn't care, lmao.
Page 10:
- cozmikrae isn't new to Mafia/WW. Now I feel bad for asking it when she had already said so umu. Not sure if I follow her logic there.
- How did wolves even manage to win more when yall use a Masonfier Cop as standard? :aaaAAA:
- I kinda agree with Wischland's argument and vote on Michi, although it seems a bit pushy. Makes me think a Wischland/Michi team is unlikely if one of them flips scum.
Page 11:
- Ok, so at this point of the day we have Hapi as a policy lynch and Michi with a wagon that has some logic provided by Vro. It has gotten momentum from Silver's vote (!!) and Wischland's vote.
- I don't get why Kane would clear Nyghts out of nowhere since I saw little to nothing that stood out from him. Stays on the fence about the current discussion, not providing an interpretation of any sort to it. In the end votes someone that wasn't listed among their suspicions, hasn't posted yet and that isn't in the risk of getting lynched.
- Vro points out they noticed something about BSR (later showing it was linking them with Michi). Silver shows interest in this.
- Minish makes a small readlist. (Red, Ruguo, Michi, Ogun, and Kane) as scummy players.
Page 12:
- Wintermoot votes somewhere outside the main wagons and makes a votecount timeline. Minish joins.
- I actually like Vro's post questioning Min.
- "Hypothetically, if I'm scum here do you think Wintermoot is also my scumbud?" what question even is this Min :weary: I'm only not slapping bright red in this because I don't think I've ever seen you being that agreeable with scumbuddies.
- Mel fearmongered everyone a bit here, Michi only had 1 vote more than Red. "substantial lead" isn't really the term I'd use, specially in a game where 83% of players started as Town, maybe.
- Lol, Minish also said she isn't that agreeable with scumbuds, yeet. Self awareness of Meta though :glare:
Page 13:
- Doc points out it's not really a substantial lead, and seems to push that there might be scum in the leading wagons. Also throws shade on Moot. Makes me think that a Michi/Doc team is unlikely if Michi flips scum, although not impossible.
- BSR liked Red's defense of him. Unfortunately we can't see timestamp on the likes, so not sure if that points out to lurking or if he caught up with the thread at some point. Although Vro's connection between Michi and BSR was a thing already, so he was definitely lurking at some point. Kane also calls out the lurkiness. Makes me think a Vro/BSR or Kane/BSR team is unlikely if BSR flips scum.
Page 14:
- Silver not really taking many sides. Shrugs Red-comz, kinda defends Moot, and dances around Minish a bit in what feels like pocketing. Makes me think a bit about a Silver/Moot scumteam. Throws big shade at Gerrick and BSR, not necessarily AI but the way this is phrased feels artificial and like BSR might be a scumbuddy and he's trying to raise a flag saying "be a bit more active so they stop going after you), while with Gerrick is more like an attempt to pocket Nyghts.
- Red points out that Gerrick's behavior is NAI, which kinda makes me think my previous assumptions might be on the right track.
- Minish gives the Michi wagon momentum, it's likely to be the lynch wagon of the day now.
- cozmikrae places a defensive vote, closes the gap Minish had just opened. I noticed she didn't talk about the Michi situation at any point despite apparently being keeping track of the votes. Makes me think a Michi/cozmikrae scumteam might be possible if any of them flip scum.
- Hyperdefensive post of Kane coming outta literally nowhere. Stays in place.
Page 15:
- Hapi kinda throws here that she'd rather die than vote Mitch since she's townreading him. This could've opened some space for scum to switch the lynch into her.
- Gerrick makes a readslist. I don't agree with some stuff like Kane helping finding scum when all he did was vote a random person and self-defend out of the blue.
- cozmikrae: "I also believe having a vote, even if potentially wrong, is better than having no vote". Lol, this didn't age well after D3.
- Red suggests Silver as an option. Which is, uh, interesting. I'll have to check later if they pushed Silver D2.
Page 16:
- Vro unvotes Michi. I hate this. He provided a good reasoning that started the wagon and kept saying on how much a possible Michi lynch would provide information, but then willingly backs off (Michi hadn't even posted in the thread for a while now) and says he'll "give Michi a chance". He then votes again off in the following page. This makes me think Vro and Michi aren't likely to be on the same team, with Vro coming off as scummy in this.
- Hapi doubles down on asking to get lynched instead of Michi.
Page 17:
- Vro removes his vote. I don't remember anyone "uncomfortable" with the Michi vote. I don't see why they didn't vote Hapi (if they wanted to do her will they'd've voted, and if they thought she was Town he would've kept it). This comes off as a scummy way to not appear on the final vote counts and bank on people's laziness to not remember what happened at EoD.
- Random Votes, not much to be seen here.
Page 2:
- Doc overreacting over what's likely a joke vote.
- Cozmikrae keeps vote on Red, says it's pressure to see their reaction.
- Michi's controversial statement, and BSR likes the post. Consistent with them both not voting.
Page 3:
- Hapi makes a point calling out Doc. Doc's answer does not address that point properly. (If I remember correctly Hapi kept insisting she was a turret in Portal 1 and I also pushed her lynch back then, so I kinda see how it's different here, but still).
- Vroendal accuses Hapi vs Doc of distancing. (why "distancing" instead of real opposition?)
Page 4:
- Mel memeing. Red wondering if her liking posts is indicative or something and backing off.
Page 5:
- More Mel memeing
- Small discussion on the importance of a D1 lynch.
- Vro makes a good point against Michi's incoherence.
Page 6:
- Silver votes Michi while asking him to provide an explanation, adding momentum to the wagon.
- Nyghts votes Hapi (kind of a policy lynch vote)
Page 7:
- Silver throws shade at Ogum (Smiles). Suggests that it's distancing. Lol. He further pushes that he's demanding an answer from. He seems sure Ogum is scum; trying to push a lynch or a bus? Makes me think of Ogum (Smiles)/Silver in different teams.
- Kane pushes that roleplaying is a scumtell, however doesn't vote his scumlean.
- Mel's readlist.
Page 8:
- cozmikrae pushes Red more, and Red defends cozmikrae.
- Michi provides his defense. On a second thought not as solid as I thought since it's not really hitting the core of the accusation. At the same time kinda overdefensive for someone that seems to have thrown the game?
Page 9:
- Kane makes a small vote analysis.
- Michi attempts to explain his defense further. I feel some sort of spite towards new mafia and considering it hostile towards newer players. I think some of these are fair observations on a personal level. Suggesting who the cop should check this early isn't good though. I find it kinda funny that Sapph ended up doing it anyway, if it wasn't a coincidence it was bit of a risky move if Michi is scum since scum could've killed them so we didn't have any results (maybe they tried to but the doctor also saw this post and stopped it? hmm). Saying they won't vote because they're afraid of killing off a role this early is silly unless they're insanely superstitious; even if it was at random, there was a higher chance of hitting scum than a Power Role, and a much higher chance of hitting vanilla.
- Strong push on Michi from Vro; Vro started the wagon on Michi with their vote observation, so this is coherent. Michi doesn't care, lmao.
Page 10:
- cozmikrae isn't new to Mafia/WW. Now I feel bad for asking it when she had already said so umu. Not sure if I follow her logic there.
- How did wolves even manage to win more when yall use a Masonfier Cop as standard? :aaaAAA:
- I kinda agree with Wischland's argument and vote on Michi, although it seems a bit pushy. Makes me think a Wischland/Michi team is unlikely if one of them flips scum.
Page 11:
- Ok, so at this point of the day we have Hapi as a policy lynch and Michi with a wagon that has some logic provided by Vro. It has gotten momentum from Silver's vote (!!) and Wischland's vote.
- I don't get why Kane would clear Nyghts out of nowhere since I saw little to nothing that stood out from him. Stays on the fence about the current discussion, not providing an interpretation of any sort to it. In the end votes someone that wasn't listed among their suspicions, hasn't posted yet and that isn't in the risk of getting lynched.
- Vro points out they noticed something about BSR (later showing it was linking them with Michi). Silver shows interest in this.
- Minish makes a small readlist. (Red, Ruguo, Michi, Ogun, and Kane) as scummy players.
Page 12:
- Wintermoot votes somewhere outside the main wagons and makes a votecount timeline. Minish joins.
- I actually like Vro's post questioning Min.
- "Hypothetically, if I'm scum here do you think Wintermoot is also my scumbud?" what question even is this Min :weary: I'm only not slapping bright red in this because I don't think I've ever seen you being that agreeable with scumbuddies.
- Mel fearmongered everyone a bit here, Michi only had 1 vote more than Red. "substantial lead" isn't really the term I'd use, specially in a game where 83% of players started as Town, maybe.
- Lol, Minish also said she isn't that agreeable with scumbuds, yeet. Self awareness of Meta though :glare:
Page 13:
- Doc points out it's not really a substantial lead, and seems to push that there might be scum in the leading wagons. Also throws shade on Moot. Makes me think that a Michi/Doc team is unlikely if Michi flips scum, although not impossible.
- BSR liked Red's defense of him. Unfortunately we can't see timestamp on the likes, so not sure if that points out to lurking or if he caught up with the thread at some point. Although Vro's connection between Michi and BSR was a thing already, so he was definitely lurking at some point. Kane also calls out the lurkiness. Makes me think a Vro/BSR or Kane/BSR team is unlikely if BSR flips scum.
Page 14:
- Silver not really taking many sides. Shrugs Red-comz, kinda defends Moot, and dances around Minish a bit in what feels like pocketing. Makes me think a bit about a Silver/Moot scumteam. Throws big shade at Gerrick and BSR, not necessarily AI but the way this is phrased feels artificial and like BSR might be a scumbuddy and he's trying to raise a flag saying "be a bit more active so they stop going after you), while with Gerrick is more like an attempt to pocket Nyghts.
- Red points out that Gerrick's behavior is NAI, which kinda makes me think my previous assumptions might be on the right track.
- Minish gives the Michi wagon momentum, it's likely to be the lynch wagon of the day now.
- cozmikrae places a defensive vote, closes the gap Minish had just opened. I noticed she didn't talk about the Michi situation at any point despite apparently being keeping track of the votes. Makes me think a Michi/cozmikrae scumteam might be possible if any of them flip scum.
- Hyperdefensive post of Kane coming outta literally nowhere. Stays in place.
Page 15:
- Hapi kinda throws here that she'd rather die than vote Mitch since she's townreading him. This could've opened some space for scum to switch the lynch into her.
- Gerrick makes a readslist. I don't agree with some stuff like Kane helping finding scum when all he did was vote a random person and self-defend out of the blue.
- cozmikrae: "I also believe having a vote, even if potentially wrong, is better than having no vote". Lol, this didn't age well after D3.
- Red suggests Silver as an option. Which is, uh, interesting. I'll have to check later if they pushed Silver D2.
Page 16:
- Vro unvotes Michi. I hate this. He provided a good reasoning that started the wagon and kept saying on how much a possible Michi lynch would provide information, but then willingly backs off (Michi hadn't even posted in the thread for a while now) and says he'll "give Michi a chance". He then votes again off in the following page. This makes me think Vro and Michi aren't likely to be on the same team, with Vro coming off as scummy in this.
- Hapi doubles down on asking to get lynched instead of Michi.
Page 17:
- Vro removes his vote. I don't remember anyone "uncomfortable" with the Michi vote. I don't see why they didn't vote Hapi (if they wanted to do her will they'd've voted, and if they thought she was Town he would've kept it). This comes off as a scummy way to not appear on the final vote counts and bank on people's laziness to not remember what happened at EoD.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 09:16:25 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 09:19:27 PM
Ok wow so Michi didn't self pres vote D1?Going to look back at the timings of the voting and when Michi was last online because I don't think wolf!Michi ever lets themself be the joint leader for a lynch if they're online and can just... vote Hapi.
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 09:20:41 PM
Ok wow so Michi didn't self pres vote D1?Doesn't seem like it. I'm not sure what to make out of it honestly.
The wagons were tied when Vro unvoted and asked Michi to defend himself, so he clearly had the opportunity.
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 09:23:42 PM
Now into D2, yeet.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 13, 2021, 09:32:37 PM
Silver ending the day Mid-early Michi when he could've jumped out at any point getting speed also makes me reconsider my read on him, hmm. I know Silver just witnessed a day where scum was bussed super early, but I'm not sure if he'd do that himself D1.Ok so I've just checked back and I don't see Michi being online for certain after Vro voted them again so I don't think it's possible to 100% clear then based on this. It would be a really weird play not to self preserve if you were a major wagon (even if not strictly in the lead) as both alignments honestly although I think it's more likely for town to do so than a wolf (see: Hapi).
Now into D2, yeet.
This is getting into tinfoil territory now but in the case of Michi, it seems pretty clear that they felt pretty demoralised towards EoD1 and have subsequently mostly dipped from the game so I'm wondering if dying D1 was either a planned bus by Ruguo (/ other maf) to get the other maf extra cred or if Michi had just given up and accepted the lynch (as either alignment)? Honestly the giving up feels towny but I'm really hesitant to misclear Michi here so I'll hold off an a judgement yet.
Michi, when you're online, would you be able to explain your thought process / why you didn't vote D1 to me please?
Post by: Vroendal on February 13, 2021, 09:42:10 PM
I had been thinking distancing before Doc talked about guilt. Originally I was going to post this statement but reconsidered: "Question for Doc: Why did you hold back pushing the advantage against Hapi despite advocating for her D1 demise in the past few games? Whether or not you wanted to get information out of other players first, the total lack of comment on the situation instead of first mentioning your personal views then commenting to look elsewhere seems slightly suspicious to me.
- Vroendal accuses Hapi vs Doc of distancing. (why "distancing" instead of real opposition?)
- Vro unvotes Michi. I hate this. He provided a good reasoning that started the wagon and kept saying on how much a possible Michi lynch would provide information, but then willingly backs off (Michi hadn't even posted in the thread for a while now) and says he'll "give Michi a chance". He then votes again off in the following page. This makes me think Vro and Michi aren't likely to be on the same team, with Vro coming off as scummy in this.
Page 17:
- Vro removes his vote. I don't remember anyone "uncomfortable" with the Michi vote. I don't see why they didn't vote Hapi (if they wanted to do her will they'd've voted, and if they thought she was Town he would've kept it). This comes off as a scummy way to not appear on the final vote counts and bank on people's laziness to not remember what happened at EoD.
Do you want her to get lynched with as little pushing from you as possible to limit the suspicion from interaction, or do you want her around as a distraction while you lynch other players?"
Then he posted this, so I dropped that lead -
If I thought anyone could convince her to change her playstyle, I'd push for that instead, but frankly imo it's a lost cause and the only reason I haven't voted Hapi yet is guilt, because even though I have nothing against her personally it could definitely look like I have some sort of axe to grind.
Guilt: my one weakness.
I unvoted Michi the first time just as much to make myself keep an open mind then as to prompt him to respond. The mere fact that Michi hadn't posted in a while also gave me pause, as I considered that Michi would be more likely to combat pushes against him as scum.
As for players being uncomfortable with Michi's vote, I felt that a lot of people weren't sold on it because a lot of people made posts after my push without mentioning it whatsoever, which signals discomfort to me. A lot people did directly state it though -
Players stating discomfort on Michi's lynch
Neither Hapi nor Michi seem scummy to me.
My one hesitation with the Michi wagon is that it seems he possibly gets easy suspicions on him a lot? I would prefer his lynch over Hapi's right now though.
For me, I'm not convinced on the Michi bandwagon. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems awfully convoluted for D1. If he's a wolf, he could have jumped on any of the wagons that could have formed earlier in the day and nobody would be the wiser because it's all just guessing. He could have safety voted for another wolf to put distance between him and the wolf in the event one of them got killed later. I understand none of us have much to go on so I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems awfully convoluted a strategy for him to be playing on D1 when it's not necessary.
I'd also just like to point out that the now rather substantial lead Michi has in votes at the moment speaks to me of a wolf pile in there somewhere. We're not so much at multiple wagons as we are seeing The Michi Wagon & The Stragglers.
For that reason, I don't believe Michi is actually scum, and I'd recommend looking closer at who has voted and still is voting for Michi up to this point.
I'm not sure here. I'm kinda feeling Michi, kinda not feeling Michi ya feel?
Seems like he might be the easy lynch which I hate. But also Vro had a fair point about him.
Okay no I remembered a post and went back to check who said it. Michi tried to direct cop to check Mele so I think I just go there for that plus the meta thing. I don't feel great about it though but eh.
As for why I don't vote for the wagon. I don't think there's a valid reason to vote for Michi. I don't like this wagon and I think that it's basis is ridiculous. Michi might be scum by I don't see no lynching D1 as a "tell"
Also, I express my discomfort on the use of meta reading to lynch people on the first day phase, because it's pretty much making a mountain of a molehill, and it usually leads nowhere. I am guilty of that sometimes but there it is. Meta is a big part of the game, and I have used it sometimes to support gut feelings, but on the first day though.
This just furthers my mindset. If Michi flips town I'm hard voting Vro forever til they die, because meta this reads to me like Michi from LotR wolf and not meets this reads too me like Michi right this was gonna be different and now it's the same meta bs getting some inno town lynched D1. Nobody is gonna listen to me but I think this wagon needs to be rethought.
If Michi is wolf I think we got lucky honestly.
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 10:06:12 PM
As for players being uncomfortable with Michi's vote, I felt that a lot of people weren't sold on it because a lot of people made posts after my push without mentioning it whatsoever, which signals discomfort to me. A lot people did directly state it though -Most of them aren't opposed to the idea of a Michi lynch. I'd say only Kane and Mel are vehemently against his lynch.Players stating discomfort on Michi's lynchNeither Hapi nor Michi seem scummy to me.My one hesitation with the Michi wagon is that it seems he possibly gets easy suspicions on him a lot? I would prefer his lynch over Hapi's right now though.For me, I'm not convinced on the Michi bandwagon. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems awfully convoluted for D1. If he's a wolf, he could have jumped on any of the wagons that could have formed earlier in the day and nobody would be the wiser because it's all just guessing. He could have safety voted for another wolf to put distance between him and the wolf in the event one of them got killed later. I understand none of us have much to go on so I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems awfully convoluted a strategy for him to be playing on D1 when it's not necessary.I'd also just like to point out that the now rather substantial lead Michi has in votes at the moment speaks to me of a wolf pile in there somewhere. We're not so much at multiple wagons as we are seeing The Michi Wagon & The Stragglers.
For that reason, I don't believe Michi is actually scum, and I'd recommend looking closer at who has voted and still is voting for Michi up to this point.I'm not sure here. I'm kinda feeling Michi, kinda not feeling Michi ya feel?
Seems like he might be the easy lynch which I hate. But also Vro had a fair point about him.
Okay no I remembered a post and went back to check who said it. Michi tried to direct cop to check Mele so I think I just go there for that plus the meta thing. I don't feel great about it though but eh.As for why I don't vote for the wagon. I don't think there's a valid reason to vote for Michi. I don't like this wagon and I think that it's basis is ridiculous. Michi might be scum by I don't see no lynching D1 as a "tell"Also, I express my discomfort on the use of meta reading to lynch people on the first day phase, because it's pretty much making a mountain of a molehill, and it usually leads nowhere. I am guilty of that sometimes but there it is. Meta is a big part of the game, and I have used it sometimes to support gut feelings, but on the first day though.This just furthers my mindset. If Michi flips town I'm hard voting Vro forever til they die, because meta this reads to me like Michi from LotR wolf and not meets this reads too me like Michi right this was gonna be different and now it's the same meta bs getting some inno town lynched D1. Nobody is gonna listen to me but I think this wagon needs to be rethought.
If Michi is wolf I think we got lucky honestly.
And so what if they're uncomfortable with it? That's even better, because this is exactly the kind of interaction we want if someone flips scum, people hesitating to vote them and wasting votes in other places. You literally made a solid case on him that convinced a bunch of players, backing off like this gives the impression you only wanted to start the wagon and then distance yourself from any responsibility that could come from it in case of a mislynch. What if your case on them was right? Wouldn't it pay off?
By removing your vote you're not even saving them. I'm assuming you're going to say didn't vote Hapi instead because she was Townie, what did you get in the end other than putting one of your Townreads in the lynch chance and getting them lynched?
You end D1 with a pretty nasty scumlean to me ùmú
Post by: Vroendal on February 13, 2021, 10:14:21 PM
Most of them aren't opposed to the idea of a Michi lynch. I'd say only Kane and Mel are vehemently against his lynch.I trust players who have played with Michi/have played WW for far longer than I have more than myself, those players couldn't ALL be wolves trying to save him, their opinions felt validated in their own minds and that gave me pause. I didn't try to save him because I agree that my case was pretty good, but I also wasn't town-reading Hapi at all, she was a Null read to me at that point. I think Michi is capable of much better plays as scum, his hesitation was making me bring him up to a Null read, so I had two Null reads, both of whom appeared to oppose me. I hedged my bets. If my case against Michi was right, it would have paid off, but I still don't know if my case was right on the basis of Michi's alignment. Neither lynch seemed great, neither seemed horrible.
And so what if they're uncomfortable with it? That's even better, because this is exactly the kind of interaction we want if someone flips scum, people hesitating to vote them and wasting votes in other places. You literally made a solid case on him that convinced a bunch of players, backing off like this gives the impression you only wanted to start the wagon and then distance yourself from any responsibility that could come from it in case of a mislynch. What if your case on them was right? Wouldn't it pay off?
By removing your vote you're not even saving them. I'm assuming you're going to say didn't vote Hapi instead because she was Townie, what did you get in the end other than putting one of your Townreads in the lynch chance and getting them lynched?
You end D1 with a pretty nasty scumlean to me ùmú
Post by: Doc on February 13, 2021, 11:32:50 PM
Also I'm pretty confident coz isn't a wolf now... no wolf pack would be stupid enough to kill the one person voting for one of them
You realize the obvious WIFOM inherent in that statement, right?
"No wolf pack would be stupid enough to do this!"
'They'd never believe we'd be crazy enough to do this, so we should do it!'
Post by: Imaginative Kane on February 13, 2021, 11:46:25 PM
Kane, can you please explain why you found BSR, specifically, suspicious and why you kept voting him after?I guess I'll say this again but rephrased. In D1, I voted him because he was the player that triggering the most alarm bells in my gut. That was also from meta because I seem to remember them not being active in the games I read through and played, especially A Husk in the Masses where they were scum. (I just realized I did not notice/had forgotten they were in LOTR werewolf) I honestly don't remember much of D2 now but I think I may have voted for them then because they still seemed the most suspicious of the players I found suspicious at the time.
As promised (since TGN turned out to be Town), I won't defend myself more unfortunately.
On a side note, I definitely would disagree with that BSR statement since I have seen games where the wolf pack just went after players casting suspicion on the members of the pack/mob (some of this was Town of Salem).Also I'm pretty confident coz isn't a wolf now... no wolf pack would be stupid enough to kill the one person voting for one of them
You realize the obvious WIFOM inherent in that statement, right?
"No wolf pack would be stupid enough to do this!"
'They'd never believe we'd be crazy enough to do this, so we should do it!'
Post by: cozmikrae on February 13, 2021, 11:47:59 PM
All of the action against Michi in D1 was meta-based. I had no comment as I'd never played him before. I was also busy picking my own fights. Also tbf, a "no lynch" is a vote.D1 votes:1. Ruguo
Doc > Michi
2. Adorable Oracle Hapi:
Red Mones > cozmik
3. Melehan:
Hapi
4. Sapphiron:
Vroendal
5. TGN:
Shapphiron > Unvote? (he wasn't voting Michi, so was he unvoting or actually voting Michi here?) > Laurentus > Unvote > No Lynch
6. Eastern New England / HumanDawn:
no votes
7. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles:
no votes
8. Alexander Valentine / ExLight:
no votes
9. Anubhav Ghosh:
no votes
10. Michi:
no votes
11. BraveSirRobin:
no votes
12. Red Mones:
Hapi > Melehan > Unvote > Ruguo
13. Vroendal:
Michi > Unvote > Michi > Unvote
14. Gerrick:
Michi
15. Wischland:
Michi
16. Minish:
Michi > Red Mones > Michi
17. Imaginative Kane:
No Lynch > BraveSirRobin
18. Wintermoot:
Red Mones
19. NyghtOwl:
Wintermoot > Hapi
20. Doc:
Hapi
21. cozmikrae:
Red Mones > Unvote > Hapi
Final votecount:
Ruguo - 1 (Red Mones)
Red Mones - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)D1 general recap and analysis:Page 1:
- Random Votes, not much to be seen here.
Page 2:
- Doc overreacting over what's likely a joke vote.
- Cozmikrae keeps vote on Red, says it's pressure to see their reaction.
- Michi's controversial statement, and BSR likes the post. Consistent with them both not voting.
Page 3:
- Hapi makes a point calling out Doc. Doc's answer does not address that point properly. (If I remember correctly Hapi kept insisting she was a turret in Portal 1 and I also pushed her lynch back then, so I kinda see how it's different here, but still).
- Vroendal accuses Hapi vs Doc of distancing. (why "distancing" instead of real opposition?)
Page 4:
- Mel memeing. Red wondering if her liking posts is indicative or something and backing off.
Page 5:
- More Mel memeing
- Small discussion on the importance of a D1 lynch.
- Vro makes a good point against Michi's incoherence.
Page 6:
- Silver votes Michi while asking him to provide an explanation, adding momentum to the wagon.
- Nyghts votes Hapi (kind of a policy lynch vote)
Page 7:
- Silver throws shade at Ogum (Smiles). Suggests that it's distancing. Lol. He further pushes that he's demanding an answer from. He seems sure Ogum is scum; trying to push a lynch or a bus? Makes me think of Ogum (Smiles)/Silver in different teams.
- Kane pushes that roleplaying is a scumtell, however doesn't vote his scumlean.
- Mel's readlist.
Page 8:
- cozmikrae pushes Red more, and Red defends cozmikrae.
- Michi provides his defense. On a second thought not as solid as I thought since it's not really hitting the core of the accusation. At the same time kinda overdefensive for someone that seems to have thrown the game?
Page 9:
- Kane makes a small vote analysis.
- Michi attempts to explain his defense further. I feel some sort of spite towards new mafia and considering it hostile towards newer players. I think some of these are fair observations on a personal level. Suggesting who the cop should check this early isn't good though. I find it kinda funny that Sapph ended up doing it anyway, if it wasn't a coincidence it was bit of a risky move if Michi is scum since scum could've killed them so we didn't have any results (maybe they tried to but the doctor also saw this post and stopped it? hmm). Saying they won't vote because they're afraid of killing off a role this early is silly unless they're insanely superstitious; even if it was at random, there was a higher chance of hitting scum than a Power Role, and a much higher chance of hitting vanilla.
- Strong push on Michi from Vro; Vro started the wagon on Michi with their vote observation, so this is coherent. Michi doesn't care, lmao.
Page 10:
- cozmikrae isn't new to Mafia/WW. Now I feel bad for asking it when she had already said so umu. Not sure if I follow her logic there.
- How did wolves even manage to win more when yall use a Masonfier Cop as standard? :aaaAAA:
- I kinda agree with Wischland's argument and vote on Michi, although it seems a bit pushy. Makes me think a Wischland/Michi team is unlikely if one of them flips scum.
Page 11:
- Ok, so at this point of the day we have Hapi as a policy lynch and Michi with a wagon that has some logic provided by Vro. It has gotten momentum from Silver's vote (!!) and Wischland's vote.
- I don't get why Kane would clear Nyghts out of nowhere since I saw little to nothing that stood out from him. Stays on the fence about the current discussion, not providing an interpretation of any sort to it. In the end votes someone that wasn't listed among their suspicions, hasn't posted yet and that isn't in the risk of getting lynched.
- Vro points out they noticed something about BSR (later showing it was linking them with Michi). Silver shows interest in this.
- Minish makes a small readlist. (Red, Ruguo, Michi, Ogun, and Kane) as scummy players.
Page 12:
- Wintermoot votes somewhere outside the main wagons and makes a votecount timeline. Minish joins.
- I actually like Vro's post questioning Min.
- "Hypothetically, if I'm scum here do you think Wintermoot is also my scumbud?" what question even is this Min :weary: I'm only not slapping bright red in this because I don't think I've ever seen you being that agreeable with scumbuddies.
- Mel fearmongered everyone a bit here, Michi only had 1 vote more than Red. "substantial lead" isn't really the term I'd use, specially in a game where 83% of players started as Town, maybe.
- Lol, Minish also said she isn't that agreeable with scumbuds, yeet. Self awareness of Meta though :glare:
Page 13:
- Doc points out it's not really a substantial lead, and seems to push that there might be scum in the leading wagons. Also throws shade on Moot. Makes me think that a Michi/Doc team is unlikely if Michi flips scum, although not impossible.
- BSR liked Red's defense of him. Unfortunately we can't see timestamp on the likes, so not sure if that points out to lurking or if he caught up with the thread at some point. Although Vro's connection between Michi and BSR was a thing already, so he was definitely lurking at some point. Kane also calls out the lurkiness. Makes me think a Vro/BSR or Kane/BSR team is unlikely if BSR flips scum.
Page 14:
- Silver not really taking many sides. Shrugs Red-comz, kinda defends Moot, and dances around Minish a bit in what feels like pocketing. Makes me think a bit about a Silver/Moot scumteam. Throws big shade at Gerrick and BSR, not necessarily AI but the way this is phrased feels artificial and like BSR might be a scumbuddy and he's trying to raise a flag saying "be a bit more active so they stop going after you), while with Gerrick is more like an attempt to pocket Nyghts.
- Red points out that Gerrick's behavior is NAI, which kinda makes me think my previous assumptions might be on the right track.
- Minish gives the Michi wagon momentum, it's likely to be the lynch wagon of the day now.
- cozmikrae places a defensive vote, closes the gap Minish had just opened. I noticed she didn't talk about the Michi situation at any point despite apparently being keeping track of the votes. Makes me think a Michi/cozmikrae scumteam might be possible if any of them flip scum.
- Hyperdefensive post of Kane coming outta literally nowhere. Stays in place.
Page 15:
- Hapi kinda throws here that she'd rather die than vote Mitch since she's townreading him. This could've opened some space for scum to switch the lynch into her.
- Gerrick makes a readslist. I don't agree with some stuff like Kane helping finding scum when all he did was vote a random person and self-defend out of the blue.
- cozmikrae: "I also believe having a vote, even if potentially wrong, is better than having no vote". Lol, this didn't age well after D3.
- Red suggests Silver as an option. Which is, uh, interesting. I'll have to check later if they pushed Silver D2.
Page 16:
- Vro unvotes Michi. I hate this. He provided a good reasoning that started the wagon and kept saying on how much a possible Michi lynch would provide information, but then willingly backs off (Michi hadn't even posted in the thread for a while now) and says he'll "give Michi a chance". He then votes again off in the following page. This makes me think Vro and Michi aren't likely to be on the same team, with Vro coming off as scummy in this.
- Hapi doubles down on asking to get lynched instead of Michi.
Page 17:
- Vro removes his vote. I don't remember anyone "uncomfortable" with the Michi vote. I don't see why they didn't vote Hapi (if they wanted to do her will they'd've voted, and if they thought she was Town he would've kept it). This comes off as a scummy way to not appear on the final vote counts and bank on people's laziness to not remember what happened at EoD.
Post by: ExLight on February 13, 2021, 11:51:00 PM
That's fair, but I feel like the meta argument was quite simple. "He's defending a No Lynch D1 and he usually doesn't behave this way and here are games that show that:"All of the action against Michi in D1 was meta-based. I had no comment as I'd never played him before. I was also busy picking my own fights. Also tbf, a "no lynch" is a vote.D1 votes:1. Ruguo
Doc > Michi
2. Adorable Oracle Hapi:
Red Mones > cozmik
3. Melehan:
Hapi
4. Sapphiron:
Vroendal
5. TGN:
Shapphiron > Unvote? (he wasn't voting Michi, so was he unvoting or actually voting Michi here?) > Laurentus > Unvote > No Lynch
6. Eastern New England / HumanDawn:
no votes
7. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles:
no votes
8. Alexander Valentine / ExLight:
no votes
9. Anubhav Ghosh:
no votes
10. Michi:
no votes
11. BraveSirRobin:
no votes
12. Red Mones:
Hapi > Melehan > Unvote > Ruguo
13. Vroendal:
Michi > Unvote > Michi > Unvote
14. Gerrick:
Michi
15. Wischland:
Michi
16. Minish:
Michi > Red Mones > Michi
17. Imaginative Kane:
No Lynch > BraveSirRobin
18. Wintermoot:
Red Mones
19. NyghtOwl:
Wintermoot > Hapi
20. Doc:
Hapi
21. cozmikrae:
Red Mones > Unvote > Hapi
Final votecount:
Ruguo - 1 (Red Mones)
Red Mones - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)D1 general recap and analysis:Page 1:
- Random Votes, not much to be seen here.
Page 2:
- Doc overreacting over what's likely a joke vote.
- Cozmikrae keeps vote on Red, says it's pressure to see their reaction.
- Michi's controversial statement, and BSR likes the post. Consistent with them both not voting.
Page 3:
- Hapi makes a point calling out Doc. Doc's answer does not address that point properly. (If I remember correctly Hapi kept insisting she was a turret in Portal 1 and I also pushed her lynch back then, so I kinda see how it's different here, but still).
- Vroendal accuses Hapi vs Doc of distancing. (why "distancing" instead of real opposition?)
Page 4:
- Mel memeing. Red wondering if her liking posts is indicative or something and backing off.
Page 5:
- More Mel memeing
- Small discussion on the importance of a D1 lynch.
- Vro makes a good point against Michi's incoherence.
Page 6:
- Silver votes Michi while asking him to provide an explanation, adding momentum to the wagon.
- Nyghts votes Hapi (kind of a policy lynch vote)
Page 7:
- Silver throws shade at Ogum (Smiles). Suggests that it's distancing. Lol. He further pushes that he's demanding an answer from. He seems sure Ogum is scum; trying to push a lynch or a bus? Makes me think of Ogum (Smiles)/Silver in different teams.
- Kane pushes that roleplaying is a scumtell, however doesn't vote his scumlean.
- Mel's readlist.
Page 8:
- cozmikrae pushes Red more, and Red defends cozmikrae.
- Michi provides his defense. On a second thought not as solid as I thought since it's not really hitting the core of the accusation. At the same time kinda overdefensive for someone that seems to have thrown the game?
Page 9:
- Kane makes a small vote analysis.
- Michi attempts to explain his defense further. I feel some sort of spite towards new mafia and considering it hostile towards newer players. I think some of these are fair observations on a personal level. Suggesting who the cop should check this early isn't good though. I find it kinda funny that Sapph ended up doing it anyway, if it wasn't a coincidence it was bit of a risky move if Michi is scum since scum could've killed them so we didn't have any results (maybe they tried to but the doctor also saw this post and stopped it? hmm). Saying they won't vote because they're afraid of killing off a role this early is silly unless they're insanely superstitious; even if it was at random, there was a higher chance of hitting scum than a Power Role, and a much higher chance of hitting vanilla.
- Strong push on Michi from Vro; Vro started the wagon on Michi with their vote observation, so this is coherent. Michi doesn't care, lmao.
Page 10:
- cozmikrae isn't new to Mafia/WW. Now I feel bad for asking it when she had already said so umu. Not sure if I follow her logic there.
- How did wolves even manage to win more when yall use a Masonfier Cop as standard? :aaaAAA:
- I kinda agree with Wischland's argument and vote on Michi, although it seems a bit pushy. Makes me think a Wischland/Michi team is unlikely if one of them flips scum.
Page 11:
- Ok, so at this point of the day we have Hapi as a policy lynch and Michi with a wagon that has some logic provided by Vro. It has gotten momentum from Silver's vote (!!) and Wischland's vote.
- I don't get why Kane would clear Nyghts out of nowhere since I saw little to nothing that stood out from him. Stays on the fence about the current discussion, not providing an interpretation of any sort to it. In the end votes someone that wasn't listed among their suspicions, hasn't posted yet and that isn't in the risk of getting lynched.
- Vro points out they noticed something about BSR (later showing it was linking them with Michi). Silver shows interest in this.
- Minish makes a small readlist. (Red, Ruguo, Michi, Ogun, and Kane) as scummy players.
Page 12:
- Wintermoot votes somewhere outside the main wagons and makes a votecount timeline. Minish joins.
- I actually like Vro's post questioning Min.
- "Hypothetically, if I'm scum here do you think Wintermoot is also my scumbud?" what question even is this Min :weary: I'm only not slapping bright red in this because I don't think I've ever seen you being that agreeable with scumbuddies.
- Mel fearmongered everyone a bit here, Michi only had 1 vote more than Red. "substantial lead" isn't really the term I'd use, specially in a game where 83% of players started as Town, maybe.
- Lol, Minish also said she isn't that agreeable with scumbuds, yeet. Self awareness of Meta though :glare:
Page 13:
- Doc points out it's not really a substantial lead, and seems to push that there might be scum in the leading wagons. Also throws shade on Moot. Makes me think that a Michi/Doc team is unlikely if Michi flips scum, although not impossible.
- BSR liked Red's defense of him. Unfortunately we can't see timestamp on the likes, so not sure if that points out to lurking or if he caught up with the thread at some point. Although Vro's connection between Michi and BSR was a thing already, so he was definitely lurking at some point. Kane also calls out the lurkiness. Makes me think a Vro/BSR or Kane/BSR team is unlikely if BSR flips scum.
Page 14:
- Silver not really taking many sides. Shrugs Red-comz, kinda defends Moot, and dances around Minish a bit in what feels like pocketing. Makes me think a bit about a Silver/Moot scumteam. Throws big shade at Gerrick and BSR, not necessarily AI but the way this is phrased feels artificial and like BSR might be a scumbuddy and he's trying to raise a flag saying "be a bit more active so they stop going after you), while with Gerrick is more like an attempt to pocket Nyghts.
- Red points out that Gerrick's behavior is NAI, which kinda makes me think my previous assumptions might be on the right track.
- Minish gives the Michi wagon momentum, it's likely to be the lynch wagon of the day now.
- cozmikrae places a defensive vote, closes the gap Minish had just opened. I noticed she didn't talk about the Michi situation at any point despite apparently being keeping track of the votes. Makes me think a Michi/cozmikrae scumteam might be possible if any of them flip scum.
- Hyperdefensive post of Kane coming outta literally nowhere. Stays in place.
Page 15:
- Hapi kinda throws here that she'd rather die than vote Mitch since she's townreading him. This could've opened some space for scum to switch the lynch into her.
- Gerrick makes a readslist. I don't agree with some stuff like Kane helping finding scum when all he did was vote a random person and self-defend out of the blue.
- cozmikrae: "I also believe having a vote, even if potentially wrong, is better than having no vote". Lol, this didn't age well after D3.
- Red suggests Silver as an option. Which is, uh, interesting. I'll have to check later if they pushed Silver D2.
Page 16:
- Vro unvotes Michi. I hate this. He provided a good reasoning that started the wagon and kept saying on how much a possible Michi lynch would provide information, but then willingly backs off (Michi hadn't even posted in the thread for a while now) and says he'll "give Michi a chance". He then votes again off in the following page. This makes me think Vro and Michi aren't likely to be on the same team, with Vro coming off as scummy in this.
- Hapi doubles down on asking to get lynched instead of Michi.
Page 17:
- Vro removes his vote. I don't remember anyone "uncomfortable" with the Michi vote. I don't see why they didn't vote Hapi (if they wanted to do her will they'd've voted, and if they thought she was Town he would've kept it). This comes off as a scummy way to not appear on the final vote counts and bank on people's laziness to not remember what happened at EoD.
It wasn't really too deep of a meta analysis, twas almost a direct contradiction maybe.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 14, 2021, 12:00:31 AM
That's fair, but I feel like the meta argument was quite simple. "He's defending a No Lynch D1 and he usually doesn't behave this way and here are games that show that:"All of the action against Michi in D1 was meta-based. I had no comment as I'd never played him before. I was also busy picking my own fights. Also tbf, a "no lynch" is a vote.D1 votes:1. Ruguo
Doc > Michi
2. Adorable Oracle Hapi:
Red Mones > cozmik
3. Melehan:
Hapi
4. Sapphiron:
Vroendal
5. TGN:
Shapphiron > Unvote? (he wasn't voting Michi, so was he unvoting or actually voting Michi here?) > Laurentus > Unvote > No Lynch
6. Eastern New England / HumanDawn:
no votes
7. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles:
no votes
8. Alexander Valentine / ExLight:
no votes
9. Anubhav Ghosh:
no votes
10. Michi:
no votes
11. BraveSirRobin:
no votes
12. Red Mones:
Hapi > Melehan > Unvote > Ruguo
13. Vroendal:
Michi > Unvote > Michi > Unvote
14. Gerrick:
Michi
15. Wischland:
Michi
16. Minish:
Michi > Red Mones > Michi
17. Imaginative Kane:
No Lynch > BraveSirRobin
18. Wintermoot:
Red Mones
19. NyghtOwl:
Wintermoot > Hapi
20. Doc:
Hapi
21. cozmikrae:
Red Mones > Unvote > Hapi
Final votecount:
Ruguo - 1 (Red Mones)
Red Mones - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)D1 general recap and analysis:Page 1:
- Random Votes, not much to be seen here.
Page 2:
- Doc overreacting over what's likely a joke vote.
- Cozmikrae keeps vote on Red, says it's pressure to see their reaction.
- Michi's controversial statement, and BSR likes the post. Consistent with them both not voting.
Page 3:
- Hapi makes a point calling out Doc. Doc's answer does not address that point properly. (If I remember correctly Hapi kept insisting she was a turret in Portal 1 and I also pushed her lynch back then, so I kinda see how it's different here, but still).
- Vroendal accuses Hapi vs Doc of distancing. (why "distancing" instead of real opposition?)
Page 4:
- Mel memeing. Red wondering if her liking posts is indicative or something and backing off.
Page 5:
- More Mel memeing
- Small discussion on the importance of a D1 lynch.
- Vro makes a good point against Michi's incoherence.
Page 6:
- Silver votes Michi while asking him to provide an explanation, adding momentum to the wagon.
- Nyghts votes Hapi (kind of a policy lynch vote)
Page 7:
- Silver throws shade at Ogum (Smiles). Suggests that it's distancing. Lol. He further pushes that he's demanding an answer from. He seems sure Ogum is scum; trying to push a lynch or a bus? Makes me think of Ogum (Smiles)/Silver in different teams.
- Kane pushes that roleplaying is a scumtell, however doesn't vote his scumlean.
- Mel's readlist.
Page 8:
- cozmikrae pushes Red more, and Red defends cozmikrae.
- Michi provides his defense. On a second thought not as solid as I thought since it's not really hitting the core of the accusation. At the same time kinda overdefensive for someone that seems to have thrown the game?
Page 9:
- Kane makes a small vote analysis.
- Michi attempts to explain his defense further. I feel some sort of spite towards new mafia and considering it hostile towards newer players. I think some of these are fair observations on a personal level. Suggesting who the cop should check this early isn't good though. I find it kinda funny that Sapph ended up doing it anyway, if it wasn't a coincidence it was bit of a risky move if Michi is scum since scum could've killed them so we didn't have any results (maybe they tried to but the doctor also saw this post and stopped it? hmm). Saying they won't vote because they're afraid of killing off a role this early is silly unless they're insanely superstitious; even if it was at random, there was a higher chance of hitting scum than a Power Role, and a much higher chance of hitting vanilla.
- Strong push on Michi from Vro; Vro started the wagon on Michi with their vote observation, so this is coherent. Michi doesn't care, lmao.
Page 10:
- cozmikrae isn't new to Mafia/WW. Now I feel bad for asking it when she had already said so umu. Not sure if I follow her logic there.
- How did wolves even manage to win more when yall use a Masonfier Cop as standard? :aaaAAA:
- I kinda agree with Wischland's argument and vote on Michi, although it seems a bit pushy. Makes me think a Wischland/Michi team is unlikely if one of them flips scum.
Page 11:
- Ok, so at this point of the day we have Hapi as a policy lynch and Michi with a wagon that has some logic provided by Vro. It has gotten momentum from Silver's vote (!!) and Wischland's vote.
- I don't get why Kane would clear Nyghts out of nowhere since I saw little to nothing that stood out from him. Stays on the fence about the current discussion, not providing an interpretation of any sort to it. In the end votes someone that wasn't listed among their suspicions, hasn't posted yet and that isn't in the risk of getting lynched.
- Vro points out they noticed something about BSR (later showing it was linking them with Michi). Silver shows interest in this.
- Minish makes a small readlist. (Red, Ruguo, Michi, Ogun, and Kane) as scummy players.
Page 12:
- Wintermoot votes somewhere outside the main wagons and makes a votecount timeline. Minish joins.
- I actually like Vro's post questioning Min.
- "Hypothetically, if I'm scum here do you think Wintermoot is also my scumbud?" what question even is this Min :weary: I'm only not slapping bright red in this because I don't think I've ever seen you being that agreeable with scumbuddies.
- Mel fearmongered everyone a bit here, Michi only had 1 vote more than Red. "substantial lead" isn't really the term I'd use, specially in a game where 83% of players started as Town, maybe.
- Lol, Minish also said she isn't that agreeable with scumbuds, yeet. Self awareness of Meta though :glare:
Page 13:
- Doc points out it's not really a substantial lead, and seems to push that there might be scum in the leading wagons. Also throws shade on Moot. Makes me think that a Michi/Doc team is unlikely if Michi flips scum, although not impossible.
- BSR liked Red's defense of him. Unfortunately we can't see timestamp on the likes, so not sure if that points out to lurking or if he caught up with the thread at some point. Although Vro's connection between Michi and BSR was a thing already, so he was definitely lurking at some point. Kane also calls out the lurkiness. Makes me think a Vro/BSR or Kane/BSR team is unlikely if BSR flips scum.
Page 14:
- Silver not really taking many sides. Shrugs Red-comz, kinda defends Moot, and dances around Minish a bit in what feels like pocketing. Makes me think a bit about a Silver/Moot scumteam. Throws big shade at Gerrick and BSR, not necessarily AI but the way this is phrased feels artificial and like BSR might be a scumbuddy and he's trying to raise a flag saying "be a bit more active so they stop going after you), while with Gerrick is more like an attempt to pocket Nyghts.
- Red points out that Gerrick's behavior is NAI, which kinda makes me think my previous assumptions might be on the right track.
- Minish gives the Michi wagon momentum, it's likely to be the lynch wagon of the day now.
- cozmikrae places a defensive vote, closes the gap Minish had just opened. I noticed she didn't talk about the Michi situation at any point despite apparently being keeping track of the votes. Makes me think a Michi/cozmikrae scumteam might be possible if any of them flip scum.
- Hyperdefensive post of Kane coming outta literally nowhere. Stays in place.
Page 15:
- Hapi kinda throws here that she'd rather die than vote Mitch since she's townreading him. This could've opened some space for scum to switch the lynch into her.
- Gerrick makes a readslist. I don't agree with some stuff like Kane helping finding scum when all he did was vote a random person and self-defend out of the blue.
- cozmikrae: "I also believe having a vote, even if potentially wrong, is better than having no vote". Lol, this didn't age well after D3.
- Red suggests Silver as an option. Which is, uh, interesting. I'll have to check later if they pushed Silver D2.
Page 16:
- Vro unvotes Michi. I hate this. He provided a good reasoning that started the wagon and kept saying on how much a possible Michi lynch would provide information, but then willingly backs off (Michi hadn't even posted in the thread for a while now) and says he'll "give Michi a chance". He then votes again off in the following page. This makes me think Vro and Michi aren't likely to be on the same team, with Vro coming off as scummy in this.
- Hapi doubles down on asking to get lynched instead of Michi.
Page 17:
- Vro removes his vote. I don't remember anyone "uncomfortable" with the Michi vote. I don't see why they didn't vote Hapi (if they wanted to do her will they'd've voted, and if they thought she was Town he would've kept it). This comes off as a scummy way to not appear on the final vote counts and bank on people's laziness to not remember what happened at EoD.
It wasn't really too deep of a meta analysis, twas almost a direct contradiction maybe.
Sure, but as I had no experience with that personally, I wasn't going to vote for him. Also beyond that day, I did defend his reaction as pure frustration and gave my 2c.
Post by: Vroendal on February 14, 2021, 12:04:48 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 14, 2021, 12:11:53 AM
Is it likely that Kane's refusal to defend himself after TGN flipped town is indicative of being the unkillable Titan, and Kane's trying to buy time with us trying to lynch him uselessly? @Legacy of Smiles, thoughts?It doesn’t make sense for scum to want it to get exposed because Unkillable Titan is actually a townsided role. Scum will still get exposed and everyone they vote or read will give information instantly.
It made sense for someone like TGN to not realize that and ignore scumbuds that might point that out, but any other player with more experience or maturity would treat it as any other scum role.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 14, 2021, 12:26:04 AM
Is it likely that Kane's refusal to defend himself after TGN flipped town is indicative of being the unkillable Titan, and Kane's trying to buy time with us trying to lynch him uselessly? @Legacy of Smiles, thoughts?Honestly, I had completely forgotten about the unlynchable titan. We are on an odd number of players right now so an unlynchable titan lynch (functionally a no lynch) would be as bad as mislynching a Townsperson in terms of numbers but at the cost of outing the titan. I doubt it's a purposeful bait unless one of Kane's scumbuddies is BSR/cozmik/Winter/likely wagon today and trying to draw attention from them but looking for apathy towards being lynched from a player might be an unlynchable titan tell. Also worth noting that normal wolves may attempt to pretend to be unlynchable in order to avoid the lynch and that starts a whole new trend of WIFOM.
I'd argue that the info we get from confirming a (lynchproof) player as wolf would be worth the cancelled lynch at this moment in time since we have a numbers advantage right now and two living defenders who are doing a good job blocking kills so far. If we get another confirmed wolf then I think solving the game will be a lot easier.
Kane, if you're town then please continue to defend yourself. It's much more helpful if you do, even if you get lynched we probably have a more productive day from it.
Post by: ExLight on February 14, 2021, 11:09:53 AM
Post by: Minish on February 14, 2021, 12:41:46 PM
Red Mones - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
Ruguo - 9 (Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Sapphiron, Minish, Michi, Melehan, Cozmikrae)
Vroendal - 5 (Ruguo, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Doc)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Eastern New England - 1 (Self)
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
TGN - 8 (BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight, Gerrick, Imaginative Kane, Minish, Red Mones, Wintermoot)
Imaginative Kane - 6 (Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Legacy of Smiles, TGN, Vroendal, Wischland)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Michi)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Human Dawn)
Interestingly, Vro and Wisch are the only two who voted for TGN against Sapph, but not against Kane. Dunno if that means anything.
I don't think Doc and Vro are aligned. Doc has a pretty bad voting history actually. But I don't know if he's one to bus or not, because the Silver lynch was prime bussing opportunity.
Looking at the votes on Silver (Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Sapphiron, Minish, Michi, Melehan, Cozmikrae), it looks like a pretty decent list actually.
I know I'm town, I really believe Red to be town, Anubhav seems town, Sapph is flipped town, Michi seems town, Melehan is flipped town, and I'm kinda town leaning Cozmik at the moment. So that just leaves Vro and Gerrick as the unknowns though I'm also kinda town leaning Vro even though I'm a bit paranoid about him.
Interestingly, I was just searching the print page to see if I could find where Gerrick's vote actually fell on Silver and I found a reads list that I'll talk about in a separate post. But it kind of makes me suspicious of him.
Oh fuck me, I just remembered looking back how bad Gerrick's vote on Silver was. Dunno how I forgot this. I had broken the tie between Silver/Vro and Gerrick voted after me. But he only voted because he said he would to prove he and Silver weren't connected and Red told him to prove it. I felt not great about that at the time and it completely slipped my mind.
Nevermind this post has turned into looking at Gerrick, so gonna post the reads list here.
Spoiler
Quote
Lean Town
Wintermoot: Reads very similar to how he played last game when he was town.
Nyght: Seems to genuinely try to get the hang of this as a new player out in the open rather than talking to fellow wolves in private chat were he scum, so I'm town-reading him.
Kane: Seems to be genuinely helpful and trying to find scum.
Wischland: Appears to be acting the same as last game (which involved jumping on bandwagons) when she was town. Would like to hear more from her.
Dawcreek: Has yet to post. This lines up with last game (when he was town) where he ended up backing out of the game because it was overwhelming. I expect the same to happen again, unfortunately.
Minish: Making some really good points on people and sussing them out/asking people for meta.
Vroendal: Going a little hard on Michi considering the meta evidence (metevidence?) isn't as strong as he believes it is, but he is going hard on people like last game when he was town. I don't see the links between players he's talking about, though.
Neutral
Alexander Valentine: Has not posted, but has been online. Again, a new person, so understandable if he's overwhelmed.
Doc: Has made some reasonable points on suspicions. Looking a little more town than last game when he was scum.
cozmik: People are unfortunately fixated on her joke vote on Red (I know how that goes all too well). Don't like the whole "playing my strategy close to the chest" bit, which in general is not good for town, but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt right now since she's new here, and hounding on the new players is no fun.
Melehan: At first went hard on the RP chaos aspect (I assume she's taking a page from Hapi's playstyle after she read last game), which makes me lean scum, but then later she seemed to be really digging and coming to some of the same conclusions I am on people.
Hapi: I find her accusations against cozmik to be weak, but other than that there's not much to go on besides the memes. Hard to read Hapi.
Ruguo: Has spoken quite a bit but has been pretty shallow in their suspects, but I find their recent analysis prompted by Vro to be reasonable.
Red Mones: I don't buy the accusation that he's knowingly protecting cozmik because he's scum -- I'd do the same thing in his place. He has been playing very defensively, though, and I don't like how he doesn't have a vote in right now.
TGN: I don't think anyone can comprehend his actions. He seems to be on a level higher than everyone else, and his chaotic tendencies rival Hapi's.
Ogun: Has only made one post showing worry about the amount of posts to catch up on. Hope he ends up reading through it all and making a vote like he did last game as town. If not, he'll move to the scum section for me.
ENE: Posted a copypasta about why everyone should vote D1 then hasn't voted or even posted beyond that. He did turn out to be town last game while being quiet, though, so that might just be his style.
Lean Scum
Michi: Honestly, I'm surprised my vote turned into a wagon, but I'm sure as hell not gonna change my vote in case he turns out to be scum (someone's gotta die anyway). But his reactions to the wagon are kinda rubbing me the wrong way, luckily. Although his non-vote appears to be NAI in his case, he seems to really want everyone to be more quiet and less aggressive, which is usually better for the wolves.
BSR: Made a post asking about roles, and that's it. Tried to look helpful before falling back into the shadows? He's been online...
Sapphiron: Voted based on "RNG", and then stated we shouldn't take D1 discussion as very important, but that's it. Everything's important this early on, so don't know why he'd downplay it already (understandable later on, though)
Okay so, I colored the flips from his list and this is from d1. But, the contents of the list are interesting and seem vaguely familiar to how I'll do reads lists as scum sometimes in that he throws a few people who he knows are town in the town reads, has some nulls to be able to throw some sus on later, and then lists 3 scum leans. I find the list interesting for d1, because he has 3 scum leans and quite a few town leans already. But also the fact that of his town reads (Winter, Nyght, Kane, Wisch, Dawcreek/Anubhav, Me, and Vro), there are some very iffy reads in there and a few people I'm currently unsure about. I know I'm town and I believe Nyght and Anubhav to be town. But the ones that are interesting are Winter, Kane, and Wisch who he gives shallow reasons for town reading, who hadn't posted as much as a lot of people in his nulls, and who are still in PoE at the moment.
Gerrick had a bunch of people in his neutrals that had posted quite a bit, and he even reads some of them a certain way (ie, saying Doc seems townier than last game) yet that's not enough to read them but he had enough to read Winter, Kane, and Wisch?
As for his scum leans, we already know Sapph was town, Michi seems to look town, and BSR is an unknown. Though Gerrick did stay off the two town wagons of Sapph/TGN d3 and voted BSR instead, so I'm kinda feeling maybe BSR is town that scum was trying to make an easy mislynch push on now...
I think I'd feel pretty good about voting Gerrick today.
Post by: Minish on February 14, 2021, 12:47:38 PM
How much experience does Kane have?
A bit I believe. He was in that Portal game that got a restart that we played in. And I know he read part of LotR because he liked a few of my posts.
Post by: ExLight on February 14, 2021, 01:17:49 PM
I'm actually a bit bothered by Gerrick as today's lynch because his vote actually gave Silver's wagon some momentum, he wasn't highly active so he could've just stayed quiet or not have placed a vote at all and it would've been fine. His readlist seems kinda coherent with his vote and I don't see a reason for him to bus Silver either.
Vote: Vroendal
I'm actually more comfortable sitting on Vro as it is at the moment.
I'm at the end of the D2 recap and a ton of people seem to be pushing and calling him out, and that suspicion seems to have disappeared after the Silver lynch (I know I'm partially to blame because I pushed another direction, but now I'm kinda regretting it).
There's some thinking here that scum could've just lynched TGN but that's not really true. If Silver and Vroendal voted each other, which is the expected (and technically optimal since distancing) once otherwise it would've brought the spotlight on both, that leaves only 2 other scum (if none were inactive) that could manipulate the votes, and they'd have to compensate their own scumbuds wagon being larger due to their distancing.
I don't think scum puts effort to mislynch someone in this situation. I can also see Silver asking for them to not lynch TGN to give him a chance to play if he was aware he's only 13, so yea.
@Minish can you comment on Vro's readlist from page 23? I think it looks even worse than Gerrick's.
To quote my WIP recap:
"- Vro makes a readlist, none of the people that flipped Town are above null. While for Silver says he'd "put him in the Town reads" but decides not to, lol. He also keeps throwing shade at Michi despite being the one that avoided his lynch, which is incoherent with what he said yesterday about Michi being a Null read at the time."
Post by: Minish on February 14, 2021, 02:03:53 PM
As for the TGN thing, it was TGN and Vro to start with. So at that point all of scum could have been on TGN. Silver didn't pick up steam til the end of the day.
The Silver wagon looks mostly townie to me (besides Gerrick) so that would leave the other two scumbuds to vote on Vro for some reason or for one to be Kane and vote BSR.
I mean the anomaly in the wagon being the easiest could be because it was scum/scum but I dunno.
Post by: ExLight on February 14, 2021, 03:25:15 PM
D2 votes:
1. Ruguo
TGN> Vroendal
2. Melehan:
Sapphiron > Ruguo
3. Sapphiron:
TGN > Ruguo
4. TGN:
Wintermoot > Unvote > Sapphiron > TGN > Doc
5. Eastern New England / HumanDawn:
Eastern New England
6. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles:
no votes
7. Alexander Valentine / ExLight:
no votes
8. Anubhav Ghosh:
Ruguo
9. Michi:
Alexander Valentine > Ruguo
10. BraveSirRobin:
Vroendal
11. Red Mones:
Ruguo
12. Vroendal:
TGN > Ruguo
13. Gerrick:
Vroendal > Ruguo
14. Wischland:
no votes
15. Minish:
Ruguo > TGN > Unvote > Ruguo
16. Imaginative Kane:
BraveSirRobin
17. Wintermoot:
Vroendal
18. NyghtOwl:
Vroendal
19. Doc:
Vroendal
20. cozmikrae:
TGN > Vroendal > No lynch > Ruguo
TGN> Vroendal
2. Melehan:
Sapphiron > Ruguo
3. Sapphiron:
TGN > Ruguo
4. TGN:
Wintermoot > Unvote > Sapphiron > TGN > Doc
5. Eastern New England / HumanDawn:
Eastern New England
6. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles:
no votes
7. Alexander Valentine / ExLight:
no votes
8. Anubhav Ghosh:
Ruguo
9. Michi:
Alexander Valentine > Ruguo
10. BraveSirRobin:
Vroendal
11. Red Mones:
Ruguo
12. Vroendal:
TGN > Ruguo
13. Gerrick:
Vroendal > Ruguo
14. Wischland:
no votes
15. Minish:
Ruguo > TGN > Unvote > Ruguo
16. Imaginative Kane:
BraveSirRobin
17. Wintermoot:
Vroendal
18. NyghtOwl:
Vroendal
19. Doc:
Vroendal
20. cozmikrae:
TGN > Vroendal > No lynch > Ruguo
Final votecount:
Ruguo - 9 (Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Sapphiron, Minish, Michi, Melehan, Cozmikrae)
Vroendal - 5 (Ruguo, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Doc)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Eastern New England - 1 (Self)
D2 general recap and analysis:
Page 17:
- Red wants to push people that were in the Hapi wagon. Vro isn't in the mix despite being who made the lynch possible
Page 18:
- Kane keeps focusing on BSR and does not provide his own thoughts on the events.
- Silver pokes Kane. No pressure at all. Kane defends himself regardless but without any kind of constructive discussion.
- Anubhav suspicious of Mel and Wischland suspicious of Sapph. Both flipped green.
Page 19:
- Vro throws shade at Wischland.
Page 20:
- Minish's plan here might be seen as role fishing. Scum would be able to reduce the pool of potential Doctors in a very significant manner like this since they'd know who would have the blocked kill in their top reads. I'm still unsure on what to think of this plan since she was the very one that pointed out this issue last game. It isn't even that important for Doctors to claim their targets right now because since we have two we'll always have two potential blocked targets (or even the chance scum holstered for some reason) and while that points out to one innocent in every pair, that's not what we want since it can shave off suspicion out of scum.
- A bit of misunderstanding on the Doctor/Defender terminology.
- A bit of discussion from Vro around Minish's plan. He was watching the last game in ZD where I suggested something similar, not really sure why he isn't pointing out the inconsistency in Min's thinking here.
Page 21:
- A bit more on the doctor plan discussion. I think I actually side with Vro in this.
- Wintermoot attacks Vro, also replies Silver. Makes me think Moot and Vro aren't likely to be in the same team if one of them flips.
- Vro blaming "paranoia" and others for his own actions while still saying they preferred the Michi lynch (which contradicts what they said yesterday about them both being pretty much equally null). If he's town this is something they should really consider working on.
- Silver makes a readlist. Him throwing shade at Minish makes me think they're not scumbuddies. He accuses ENE and Doc of being lurky and at the same time calls out Nyghts for him looking for lurking players, which makes me think there are inactive or lurkish scum by D2.
Page 22:
- Doc makes imo a good point about either TGN or himself being Town, doesn't mean much since TGN was the one that flipped such. I didn't keep an eye on last game but I feel like he might be onto something with the Vro approach. Vro gets hyperdefensive again, I'm not fond of this attitude since people have been telling him how it was scummy and he keeps dodging it trying to find justifications and then hits them with a "well you should've said it was scummy, how'd I know??". Grr.
- WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP CLEARING NYGHTS LIKE I GET THEY SOUNDS TOWNIE BUT SOME PEOPLE JUST NATURALLY DO aaa
- Minish starts making a nice readlist trying to analyze the votes but kinda stops midway. Slings out Silver so that was nice.
- Nyghts provides a small cozy readlist. A bit on the safe side since the opinions seem general consensus, but it's fine I guess?
- Silver pushes Michi and Vro as lynch options. I'm not sure what to expect from Silver in this, would he leave a message like this behind if he was scum? If they both got lynched and flipped town it would look super bad on him, hmm.
- BraveSirRobin finally makes his first post yeet. I disagree with some stuff they said but I don't think there's anything too wrong in this, it's kinda NAI and on the safe side too.
- Silver kinda has a small clash with BSR. I originally thought this was kinda putting them on opposite sides but looking back it's actually just discussing game philosophy.
Page 23:
- Doc discusses more game theory. He seems to like doing that.
- cozmikrae makes a readlist. I actually don't like this list since it scumreads most of town players (TGN, Mel, ENE) with the exception of Sapph under something I don't really agree with (because voted RNG and didn't take a side on the lynch), and puts Silver on the townleans. Although they seemed to not know the concept of wagonomics, so that's explains a bit.
- Nyghts makes a good post, I agree with the BSR and Vro scumleans.
- Vro makes a readlist, none of the people that flipped Town are above null. While for Silver says he'd "put him in the Town reads" but decides not to, lol. He also keeps throwing shade at Michi despite being the one that avoided his lynch, which is incoherent with what he said yesterday about Michi being a Null read at the time.[/color]
Page 24:
- Doc throwing punches at Vro again makes me think they're not scum together.
- Nyghts backs off quite a bit, I feel like if Vro is scum they got them pocketed easily. Could be the other way around. Slightly feels to me that Nyghts and Vro aren't in the same team.
- I actually really like Anubhav's reasoning here. Throws suspicion on Vro and explains how he'd be more interested in bussing to gain town cred if that was the case.
- Gerrick makes another post doubling down on Vro's suspicion. Vro answers with a WIFOM post, asks about the Silver scumread.
- Minish makes a good post explaining how Vro's mindset is ambiguous at best.
- Kane makes a readlist. A bit of some hot takes, actually. And I think I actually agree with a good chunk of it?? I'm not sure about this fascination with BSR though.
Page 25:
- Minish, you totally would post half asleep as scum and we know that yeet. She asks for Kane to try to elaborate a bit on Silver, which he never does (he instead pops in 10 pages later saying he's fine with both wagons but then votes somewhere else).
- I'm not sure how to interpret this Minish x Vro back and forth. Does scum Vro try to push Minish's reasoning around this hard? Minish calling out Vro constantly makes me think they're not in the same team, but she kinda loosened up a bit later in the game, so maybe she was doing that because people were suspicious of Vro? I think it's kinda ambiguous here. I don't think I can see Minish as scum and Vro as Town here though.
- Mel's readlist here is pretty good, I might come back to it later.
- Anubhav has a weird post that kind went under the radar. Why apologize if Vro is scum to them? Feeling bad about bussing?
- Mel vs. Minish clash. Did this influence Mel's death? Supposedly a link between Red and Minish, I'll have to check that but afair Minish though she had a lead on Red and gave up when she realized she was probably overthinking.
Page 26:
- Passing not testing town testst
- Wintermoot pokes Vro but stays on the fence, I'm not a fan of this. Throws shade at Doc and TGN while not pushing anything and kinda tries to shoot down Nyghts impressions of him.
- ...Why was Silver replying to Moot's reply to Nyght's post? Also slightly weird interaction between both, I actually hate it?
Page 27:
- Doc points out that Vro isn't voting for TGN. I feel like the scumbud theory was debunked, but I do feel like there's more to what meets the eye. Judging by Vro's last second vote removal last Day Phase, I feel like at least up to this point Vro is avoiding voting to leave less vote information around, and that this is unrelated to TGN's flip.
- TGN wagon explodes with Minish, Silver, and self voting him.
Page 28:
- Vro jumps in TGN's wagon after Doc points out the "link" between them. This feels like an attempt to get TGN's lynch through because he knows he'll flip Town, making Doc and the people agreeing with him less suspicious of him. If he knew TGN was 13 he probably knows that is hardly a confession.
- BSR voting Vro here readding momentum makes me think BSR and Vro aren't likely to be in the same team if one of them flips scum.
- Nyghts hesitating to vote when Vro's ass in on the line is a bit annoying.
Page 29:
- Silver presenting that 6 player list. While statistically only one scum (himself) is likely to be there, I feel like Sapph had a point looking back at this because if everyone of these flipped Town it would look terrible for Silver. I'm actually now townleaning Michi and Townreading Red, so it's between Vro and BSR to me with me leaning towards Vro.
- Silver liked Mel's push on BSR, which makes me think he wanted the votes to shift that direction.
- Mel makes a cute vote timeline and events recap.
Page 30:
- Wintermoot voted Vroendal at a key moment which is consistent with my observation earlier.
- Vroendal's wagon explodes, this depends on Vro's alignment but I think cozmikrae's vote is really townie here since TGN was town.
- Michi voting somewhere else is a bit weird but coherent.
Page 31:
- Doc has something that annoys me a bit. Keeps making these votecounts and despite all that yadda yadda about the importance of wagonomics he hasn't placed his vote on anyone so far.
- Vro making that massive wallpost to defend himself :weary:. I find interesting that he "learned about 5 minutes before EoD that if there was a tie it would result in a coinflip", and I'm assuming it was outside the thread? This points out to him considering a tie.
- Red notices something I also realized, Gerrick was also voting Vro for insisting on Michi despite his previous readlist having Vro as Town and Michi as Scum leans. Although the readlist is from D1 and before the whole Vro unvoting thing. I don't think it's that incoherent as I was having mixed signs with Vro and it just went south at the end of the day. I don't think Gerrick and Vro as scum together if one of them flips scum. Gj polishing those boots with your tongue though lmao.
- Silver's wagon starts gaining some momentum, which is a bit tricky. He again pulls BSR out of nowhere, which comes off as a bit weird, it feels like it's some random distancing?? I feel like at this point he's forced to vote Vro despite their alignment because it's the only viable wagon other than TGN, and I think this honestly appeals to the sympathetic side of Silver wanting to protect TGN rather than his gameplan. Since he's being put into a possible lynch wagon he can't just unvote, so voting Vro who already has plenty of suspicion on himself is probably a decent bussing move. I think his only read about Vro was on page 22(?) and just says "Vro is sus but I'd rather not rn" despite him having shown some interest and asked TGN to provide a read on him and BSR but not on Michi, so this kinda goes back to the at least one of BSR or Vro is scum. In the same post he presents his options, and the only ones whose alignment are undetermined are Doc and Vro, which makes me think Doc and Vro are not the same alignment.
- Not a fan of cozmikrae voting No Lynch when Silver was gaining speed and despite Vro previously being one of her top suspects and at lynch risk.
- "I had said I would likely end up voting Ruguo for the reasons I had presented earlier, it should not come as a shock that I am now switching my vote now." it does come off as a shock because they were "almost Town" before. He now also seems confident that Silver will flip red and says that he "shall investigate a Minish/Ruguo scum link if Ruguo flips scum today. I think this is a good starting point.", tying a possibly strong Town player to a scumflip. He hadn't done anything as eye-catching for any of the other wagons that had happened throughout the game so this is a red flag to me. When did your read on Silver change this drastically, Vro?
Page 32:
- cozmikrae voting Silver is great here, town points.
- Red kinda taking responsibility on Silver's lynch, which is fine? NAI but catches my eye.
Pages 33 and 34:
- Michi and Minish voting Ruguo is extremely townie is Vro is Town. Otherwise it's NAI. I can't see Scum Michi/Minish and Town Vro here. Minish is a known busser, but would she do that right after pointing that out? lmao that would be WILD.
Page 35:
- I just realized the votes in the final votecounts aren't necessarily in chronological order... oof... Gerrick's vote did come late in the Phase, so I guess it was worse than I thought. I see the point of him being possibly getting bothered by something like that, yea. The only thing bothering me is, does scum really care about proving that wrong? Odds of it really being 3/4 scum is absurdly low, does anyone seriously consider a post like that D2 that noone is discussing to the point of bring it back up? It didn't even really have a real connection, it was just Red throwing his scumleans together and calling it a team. I mean it's a possibility Gerrick would maybe panic over this but it's not really like sound the alarm levels to me? It's good to keep in mind though.
Page 36:
- A bit of discussion around Gerrick's vote. I feel like there was a bit of miscomunication here actually, lol. You all seemed to be talking about slightly different things. Gerrick's play was ambiguous but the whole thing makes Red look better imo.
- Kane voting BSR outta nowhere and when it wasn't relevant bothers me.
- Anubhav voting Silver despite not having read pages 32-35 is actually really Townie and shows they're willing to take a side, even though voting on an inevitable wagon is usually if anything scummy I actually like that.
- Red wants to push people that were in the Hapi wagon. Vro isn't in the mix despite being who made the lynch possible
Page 18:
- Kane keeps focusing on BSR and does not provide his own thoughts on the events.
- Silver pokes Kane. No pressure at all. Kane defends himself regardless but without any kind of constructive discussion.
- Anubhav suspicious of Mel and Wischland suspicious of Sapph. Both flipped green.
Page 19:
- Vro throws shade at Wischland.
Page 20:
- Minish's plan here might be seen as role fishing. Scum would be able to reduce the pool of potential Doctors in a very significant manner like this since they'd know who would have the blocked kill in their top reads. I'm still unsure on what to think of this plan since she was the very one that pointed out this issue last game. It isn't even that important for Doctors to claim their targets right now because since we have two we'll always have two potential blocked targets (or even the chance scum holstered for some reason) and while that points out to one innocent in every pair, that's not what we want since it can shave off suspicion out of scum.
- A bit of misunderstanding on the Doctor/Defender terminology.
- A bit of discussion from Vro around Minish's plan. He was watching the last game in ZD where I suggested something similar, not really sure why he isn't pointing out the inconsistency in Min's thinking here.
Page 21:
- A bit more on the doctor plan discussion. I think I actually side with Vro in this.
- Wintermoot attacks Vro, also replies Silver. Makes me think Moot and Vro aren't likely to be in the same team if one of them flips.
- Vro blaming "paranoia" and others for his own actions while still saying they preferred the Michi lynch (which contradicts what they said yesterday about them both being pretty much equally null). If he's town this is something they should really consider working on.
- Silver makes a readlist. Him throwing shade at Minish makes me think they're not scumbuddies. He accuses ENE and Doc of being lurky and at the same time calls out Nyghts for him looking for lurking players, which makes me think there are inactive or lurkish scum by D2.
Page 22:
- Doc makes imo a good point about either TGN or himself being Town, doesn't mean much since TGN was the one that flipped such. I didn't keep an eye on last game but I feel like he might be onto something with the Vro approach. Vro gets hyperdefensive again, I'm not fond of this attitude since people have been telling him how it was scummy and he keeps dodging it trying to find justifications and then hits them with a "well you should've said it was scummy, how'd I know??". Grr.
- WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP CLEARING NYGHTS LIKE I GET THEY SOUNDS TOWNIE BUT SOME PEOPLE JUST NATURALLY DO aaa
- Minish starts making a nice readlist trying to analyze the votes but kinda stops midway. Slings out Silver so that was nice.
- Nyghts provides a small cozy readlist. A bit on the safe side since the opinions seem general consensus, but it's fine I guess?
- Silver pushes Michi and Vro as lynch options. I'm not sure what to expect from Silver in this, would he leave a message like this behind if he was scum? If they both got lynched and flipped town it would look super bad on him, hmm.
- BraveSirRobin finally makes his first post yeet. I disagree with some stuff they said but I don't think there's anything too wrong in this, it's kinda NAI and on the safe side too.
- Silver kinda has a small clash with BSR. I originally thought this was kinda putting them on opposite sides but looking back it's actually just discussing game philosophy.
Page 23:
- Doc discusses more game theory. He seems to like doing that.
- cozmikrae makes a readlist. I actually don't like this list since it scumreads most of town players (TGN, Mel, ENE) with the exception of Sapph under something I don't really agree with (because voted RNG and didn't take a side on the lynch), and puts Silver on the townleans. Although they seemed to not know the concept of wagonomics, so that's explains a bit.
- Nyghts makes a good post, I agree with the BSR and Vro scumleans.
- Vro makes a readlist, none of the people that flipped Town are above null. While for Silver says he'd "put him in the Town reads" but decides not to, lol. He also keeps throwing shade at Michi despite being the one that avoided his lynch, which is incoherent with what he said yesterday about Michi being a Null read at the time.[/color]
Page 24:
- Doc throwing punches at Vro again makes me think they're not scum together.
- Nyghts backs off quite a bit, I feel like if Vro is scum they got them pocketed easily. Could be the other way around. Slightly feels to me that Nyghts and Vro aren't in the same team.
- I actually really like Anubhav's reasoning here. Throws suspicion on Vro and explains how he'd be more interested in bussing to gain town cred if that was the case.
- Gerrick makes another post doubling down on Vro's suspicion. Vro answers with a WIFOM post, asks about the Silver scumread.
- Minish makes a good post explaining how Vro's mindset is ambiguous at best.
- Kane makes a readlist. A bit of some hot takes, actually. And I think I actually agree with a good chunk of it?? I'm not sure about this fascination with BSR though.
Page 25:
- Minish, you totally would post half asleep as scum and we know that yeet. She asks for Kane to try to elaborate a bit on Silver, which he never does (he instead pops in 10 pages later saying he's fine with both wagons but then votes somewhere else).
- I'm not sure how to interpret this Minish x Vro back and forth. Does scum Vro try to push Minish's reasoning around this hard? Minish calling out Vro constantly makes me think they're not in the same team, but she kinda loosened up a bit later in the game, so maybe she was doing that because people were suspicious of Vro? I think it's kinda ambiguous here. I don't think I can see Minish as scum and Vro as Town here though.
- Mel's readlist here is pretty good, I might come back to it later.
- Anubhav has a weird post that kind went under the radar. Why apologize if Vro is scum to them? Feeling bad about bussing?
- Mel vs. Minish clash. Did this influence Mel's death? Supposedly a link between Red and Minish, I'll have to check that but afair Minish though she had a lead on Red and gave up when she realized she was probably overthinking.
Page 26:
- Passing not testing town testst
- Wintermoot pokes Vro but stays on the fence, I'm not a fan of this. Throws shade at Doc and TGN while not pushing anything and kinda tries to shoot down Nyghts impressions of him.
- ...Why was Silver replying to Moot's reply to Nyght's post? Also slightly weird interaction between both, I actually hate it?
Page 27:
- Doc points out that Vro isn't voting for TGN. I feel like the scumbud theory was debunked, but I do feel like there's more to what meets the eye. Judging by Vro's last second vote removal last Day Phase, I feel like at least up to this point Vro is avoiding voting to leave less vote information around, and that this is unrelated to TGN's flip.
- TGN wagon explodes with Minish, Silver, and self voting him.
Page 28:
- Vro jumps in TGN's wagon after Doc points out the "link" between them. This feels like an attempt to get TGN's lynch through because he knows he'll flip Town, making Doc and the people agreeing with him less suspicious of him. If he knew TGN was 13 he probably knows that is hardly a confession.
- BSR voting Vro here readding momentum makes me think BSR and Vro aren't likely to be in the same team if one of them flips scum.
- Nyghts hesitating to vote when Vro's ass in on the line is a bit annoying.
Page 29:
- Silver presenting that 6 player list. While statistically only one scum (himself) is likely to be there, I feel like Sapph had a point looking back at this because if everyone of these flipped Town it would look terrible for Silver. I'm actually now townleaning Michi and Townreading Red, so it's between Vro and BSR to me with me leaning towards Vro.
- Silver liked Mel's push on BSR, which makes me think he wanted the votes to shift that direction.
- Mel makes a cute vote timeline and events recap.
Page 30:
- Wintermoot voted Vroendal at a key moment which is consistent with my observation earlier.
- Vroendal's wagon explodes, this depends on Vro's alignment but I think cozmikrae's vote is really townie here since TGN was town.
- Michi voting somewhere else is a bit weird but coherent.
Page 31:
- Doc has something that annoys me a bit. Keeps making these votecounts and despite all that yadda yadda about the importance of wagonomics he hasn't placed his vote on anyone so far.
- Vro making that massive wallpost to defend himself :weary:. I find interesting that he "learned about 5 minutes before EoD that if there was a tie it would result in a coinflip", and I'm assuming it was outside the thread? This points out to him considering a tie.
- Red notices something I also realized, Gerrick was also voting Vro for insisting on Michi despite his previous readlist having Vro as Town and Michi as Scum leans. Although the readlist is from D1 and before the whole Vro unvoting thing. I don't think it's that incoherent as I was having mixed signs with Vro and it just went south at the end of the day. I don't think Gerrick and Vro as scum together if one of them flips scum. Gj polishing those boots with your tongue though lmao.
- Silver's wagon starts gaining some momentum, which is a bit tricky. He again pulls BSR out of nowhere, which comes off as a bit weird, it feels like it's some random distancing?? I feel like at this point he's forced to vote Vro despite their alignment because it's the only viable wagon other than TGN, and I think this honestly appeals to the sympathetic side of Silver wanting to protect TGN rather than his gameplan. Since he's being put into a possible lynch wagon he can't just unvote, so voting Vro who already has plenty of suspicion on himself is probably a decent bussing move. I think his only read about Vro was on page 22(?) and just says "Vro is sus but I'd rather not rn" despite him having shown some interest and asked TGN to provide a read on him and BSR but not on Michi, so this kinda goes back to the at least one of BSR or Vro is scum. In the same post he presents his options, and the only ones whose alignment are undetermined are Doc and Vro, which makes me think Doc and Vro are not the same alignment.
- Not a fan of cozmikrae voting No Lynch when Silver was gaining speed and despite Vro previously being one of her top suspects and at lynch risk.
- "I had said I would likely end up voting Ruguo for the reasons I had presented earlier, it should not come as a shock that I am now switching my vote now." it does come off as a shock because they were "almost Town" before. He now also seems confident that Silver will flip red and says that he "shall investigate a Minish/Ruguo scum link if Ruguo flips scum today. I think this is a good starting point.", tying a possibly strong Town player to a scumflip. He hadn't done anything as eye-catching for any of the other wagons that had happened throughout the game so this is a red flag to me. When did your read on Silver change this drastically, Vro?
Page 32:
- cozmikrae voting Silver is great here, town points.
- Red kinda taking responsibility on Silver's lynch, which is fine? NAI but catches my eye.
Pages 33 and 34:
- Michi and Minish voting Ruguo is extremely townie is Vro is Town. Otherwise it's NAI. I can't see Scum Michi/Minish and Town Vro here. Minish is a known busser, but would she do that right after pointing that out? lmao that would be WILD.
Page 35:
- I just realized the votes in the final votecounts aren't necessarily in chronological order... oof... Gerrick's vote did come late in the Phase, so I guess it was worse than I thought. I see the point of him being possibly getting bothered by something like that, yea. The only thing bothering me is, does scum really care about proving that wrong? Odds of it really being 3/4 scum is absurdly low, does anyone seriously consider a post like that D2 that noone is discussing to the point of bring it back up? It didn't even really have a real connection, it was just Red throwing his scumleans together and calling it a team. I mean it's a possibility Gerrick would maybe panic over this but it's not really like sound the alarm levels to me? It's good to keep in mind though.
Page 36:
- A bit of discussion around Gerrick's vote. I feel like there was a bit of miscomunication here actually, lol. You all seemed to be talking about slightly different things. Gerrick's play was ambiguous but the whole thing makes Red look better imo.
- Kane voting BSR outta nowhere and when it wasn't relevant bothers me.
- Anubhav voting Silver despite not having read pages 32-35 is actually really Townie and shows they're willing to take a side, even though voting on an inevitable wagon is usually if anything scummy I actually like that.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 14, 2021, 04:21:49 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 14, 2021, 04:28:17 PM
Town Core:
Legacy of Smiles
ExLight
Anubhav Ghosh
Red Mones
Minish
And that's an incredibly powerful core set of townspeople for solving.
Considering including people in Vroendel/Nyght/Michi but I'm going to need some more time to null over those.
Post by: Minish on February 14, 2021, 04:40:53 PM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 14, 2021, 05:00:09 PM
D2 votes:1. Ruguo
TGN> Vroendal
2. Melehan:
Sapphiron > Ruguo
3. Sapphiron:
TGN > Ruguo
4. TGN:
Wintermoot > Unvote > Sapphiron > TGN > Doc
5. Eastern New England / HumanDawn:
Eastern New England
6. Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles:
no votes
7. Alexander Valentine / ExLight:
no votes
8. Anubhav Ghosh:
Ruguo
9. Michi:
Alexander Valentine > Ruguo
10. BraveSirRobin:
Vroendal
11. Red Mones:
Ruguo
12. Vroendal:
TGN > Ruguo
13. Gerrick:
Vroendal > Ruguo
14. Wischland:
no votes
15. Minish:
Ruguo > TGN > Unvote > Ruguo
16. Imaginative Kane:
BraveSirRobin
17. Wintermoot:
Vroendal
18. NyghtOwl:
Vroendal
19. Doc:
Vroendal
20. cozmikrae:
TGN > Vroendal > No lynch > Ruguo
Final votecount:
Ruguo - 9 (Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Sapphiron, Minish, Michi, Melehan, Cozmikrae)
Vroendal - 5 (Ruguo, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Doc)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Eastern New England - 1 (Self)D2 general recap and analysis:Page 17:
- Red wants to push people that were in the Hapi wagon. Vro isn't in the mix despite being who made the lynch possible
Page 18:
- Kane keeps focusing on BSR and does not provide his own thoughts on the events.
- Silver pokes Kane. No pressure at all. Kane defends himself regardless but without any kind of constructive discussion.
- Anubhav suspicious of Mel and Wischland suspicious of Sapph. Both flipped green.
Page 19:
- Vro throws shade at Wischland.
Page 20:
- Minish's plan here might be seen as role fishing. Scum would be able to reduce the pool of potential Doctors in a very significant manner like this since they'd know who would have the blocked kill in their top reads. I'm still unsure on what to think of this plan since she was the very one that pointed out this issue last game. It isn't even that important for Doctors to claim their targets right now because since we have two we'll always have two potential blocked targets (or even the chance scum holstered for some reason) and while that points out to one innocent in every pair, that's not what we want since it can shave off suspicion out of scum.
- A bit of misunderstanding on the Doctor/Defender terminology.
- A bit of discussion from Vro around Minish's plan. He was watching the last game in ZD where I suggested something similar, not really sure why he isn't pointing out the inconsistency in Min's thinking here.
Page 21:
- A bit more on the doctor plan discussion. I think I actually side with Vro in this.
- Wintermoot attacks Vro, also replies Silver. Makes me think Moot and Vro aren't likely to be in the same team if one of them flips.
- Vro blaming "paranoia" and others for his own actions while still saying they preferred the Michi lynch (which contradicts what they said yesterday about them both being pretty much equally null). If he's town this is something they should really consider working on.
- Silver makes a readlist. Him throwing shade at Minish makes me think they're not scumbuddies. He accuses ENE and Doc of being lurky and at the same time calls out Nyghts for him looking for lurking players, which makes me think there are inactive or lurkish scum by D2.
Page 22:
- Doc makes imo a good point about either TGN or himself being Town, doesn't mean much since TGN was the one that flipped such. I didn't keep an eye on last game but I feel like he might be onto something with the Vro approach. Vro gets hyperdefensive again, I'm not fond of this attitude since people have been telling him how it was scummy and he keeps dodging it trying to find justifications and then hits them with a "well you should've said it was scummy, how'd I know??". Grr.
- WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP CLEARING NYGHTS LIKE I GET THEY SOUNDS TOWNIE BUT SOME PEOPLE JUST NATURALLY DO aaa
- Minish starts making a nice readlist trying to analyze the votes but kinda stops midway. Slings out Silver so that was nice.
- Nyghts provides a small cozy readlist. A bit on the safe side since the opinions seem general consensus, but it's fine I guess?
- Silver pushes Michi and Vro as lynch options. I'm not sure what to expect from Silver in this, would he leave a message like this behind if he was scum? If they both got lynched and flipped town it would look super bad on him, hmm.
- BraveSirRobin finally makes his first post yeet. I disagree with some stuff they said but I don't think there's anything too wrong in this, it's kinda NAI and on the safe side too.
- Silver kinda has a small clash with BSR. I originally thought this was kinda putting them on opposite sides but looking back it's actually just discussing game philosophy.
Page 23:
- Doc discusses more game theory. He seems to like doing that.
- cozmikrae makes a readlist. I actually don't like this list since it scumreads most of town players (TGN, Mel, ENE) with the exception of Sapph under something I don't really agree with (because voted RNG and didn't take a side on the lynch), and puts Silver on the townleans. Although they seemed to not know the concept of wagonomics, so that's explains a bit.
- Nyghts makes a good post, I agree with the BSR and Vro scumleans.
- Vro makes a readlist, none of the people that flipped Town are above null. While for Silver says he'd "put him in the Town reads" but decides not to, lol. He also keeps throwing shade at Michi despite being the one that avoided his lynch, which is incoherent with what he said yesterday about Michi being a Null read at the time.[/color]
Page 24:
- Doc throwing punches at Vro again makes me think they're not scum together.
- Nyghts backs off quite a bit, I feel like if Vro is scum they got them pocketed easily. Could be the other way around. Slightly feels to me that Nyghts and Vro aren't in the same team.
- I actually really like Anubhav's reasoning here. Throws suspicion on Vro and explains how he'd be more interested in bussing to gain town cred if that was the case.
- Gerrick makes another post doubling down on Vro's suspicion. Vro answers with a WIFOM post, asks about the Silver scumread.
- Minish makes a good post explaining how Vro's mindset is ambiguous at best.
- Kane makes a readlist. A bit of some hot takes, actually. And I think I actually agree with a good chunk of it?? I'm not sure about this fascination with BSR though.
Page 25:
- Minish, you totally would post half asleep as scum and we know that yeet. She asks for Kane to try to elaborate a bit on Silver, which he never does (he instead pops in 10 pages later saying he's fine with both wagons but then votes somewhere else).
- I'm not sure how to interpret this Minish x Vro back and forth. Does scum Vro try to push Minish's reasoning around this hard? Minish calling out Vro constantly makes me think they're not in the same team, but she kinda loosened up a bit later in the game, so maybe she was doing that because people were suspicious of Vro? I think it's kinda ambiguous here. I don't think I can see Minish as scum and Vro as Town here though.
- Mel's readlist here is pretty good, I might come back to it later.
- Anubhav has a weird post that kind went under the radar. Why apologize if Vro is scum to them? Feeling bad about bussing?
- Mel vs. Minish clash. Did this influence Mel's death? Supposedly a link between Red and Minish, I'll have to check that but afair Minish though she had a lead on Red and gave up when she realized she was probably overthinking.
Page 26:
- Passing not testing town testst
- Wintermoot pokes Vro but stays on the fence, I'm not a fan of this. Throws shade at Doc and TGN while not pushing anything and kinda tries to shoot down Nyghts impressions of him.
- ...Why was Silver replying to Moot's reply to Nyght's post? Also slightly weird interaction between both, I actually hate it?
Page 27:
- Doc points out that Vro isn't voting for TGN. I feel like the scumbud theory was debunked, but I do feel like there's more to what meets the eye. Judging by Vro's last second vote removal last Day Phase, I feel like at least up to this point Vro is avoiding voting to leave less vote information around, and that this is unrelated to TGN's flip.
- TGN wagon explodes with Minish, Silver, and self voting him.
Page 28:
- Vro jumps in TGN's wagon after Doc points out the "link" between them. This feels like an attempt to get TGN's lynch through because he knows he'll flip Town, making Doc and the people agreeing with him less suspicious of him. If he knew TGN was 13 he probably knows that is hardly a confession.
- BSR voting Vro here readding momentum makes me think BSR and Vro aren't likely to be in the same team if one of them flips scum.
- Nyghts hesitating to vote when Vro's ass in on the line is a bit annoying.
Page 29:
- Silver presenting that 6 player list. While statistically only one scum (himself) is likely to be there, I feel like Sapph had a point looking back at this because if everyone of these flipped Town it would look terrible for Silver. I'm actually now townleaning Michi and Townreading Red, so it's between Vro and BSR to me with me leaning towards Vro.
- Silver liked Mel's push on BSR, which makes me think he wanted the votes to shift that direction.
- Mel makes a cute vote timeline and events recap.
Page 30:
- Wintermoot voted Vroendal at a key moment which is consistent with my observation earlier.
- Vroendal's wagon explodes, this depends on Vro's alignment but I think cozmikrae's vote is really townie here since TGN was town.
- Michi voting somewhere else is a bit weird but coherent.
Page 31:
- Doc has something that annoys me a bit. Keeps making these votecounts and despite all that yadda yadda about the importance of wagonomics he hasn't placed his vote on anyone so far.
- Vro making that massive wallpost to defend himself :weary:. I find interesting that he "learned about 5 minutes before EoD that if there was a tie it would result in a coinflip", and I'm assuming it was outside the thread? This points out to him considering a tie.
- Red notices something I also realized, Gerrick was also voting Vro for insisting on Michi despite his previous readlist having Vro as Town and Michi as Scum leans. Although the readlist is from D1 and before the whole Vro unvoting thing. I don't think it's that incoherent as I was having mixed signs with Vro and it just went south at the end of the day. I don't think Gerrick and Vro as scum together if one of them flips scum. Gj polishing those boots with your tongue though lmao.
- Silver's wagon starts gaining some momentum, which is a bit tricky. He again pulls BSR out of nowhere, which comes off as a bit weird, it feels like it's some random distancing?? I feel like at this point he's forced to vote Vro despite their alignment because it's the only viable wagon other than TGN, and I think this honestly appeals to the sympathetic side of Silver wanting to protect TGN rather than his gameplan. Since he's being put into a possible lynch wagon he can't just unvote, so voting Vro who already has plenty of suspicion on himself is probably a decent bussing move. I think his only read about Vro was on page 22(?) and just says "Vro is sus but I'd rather not rn" despite him having shown some interest and asked TGN to provide a read on him and BSR but not on Michi, so this kinda goes back to the at least one of BSR or Vro is scum. In the same post he presents his options, and the only ones whose alignment are undetermined are Doc and Vro, which makes me think Doc and Vro are not the same alignment.
- Not a fan of cozmikrae voting No Lynch when Silver was gaining speed and despite Vro previously being one of her top suspects and at lynch risk.
- "I had said I would likely end up voting Ruguo for the reasons I had presented earlier, it should not come as a shock that I am now switching my vote now." it does come off as a shock because they were "almost Town" before. He now also seems confident that Silver will flip red and says that he "shall investigate a Minish/Ruguo scum link if Ruguo flips scum today. I think this is a good starting point.", tying a possibly strong Town player to a scumflip. He hadn't done anything as eye-catching for any of the other wagons that had happened throughout the game so this is a red flag to me. When did your read on Silver change this drastically, Vro?
Page 32:
- cozmikrae voting Silver is great here, town points.
- Red kinda taking responsibility on Silver's lynch, which is fine? NAI but catches my eye.
Pages 33 and 34:
- Michi and Minish voting Ruguo is extremely townie is Vro is Town. Otherwise it's NAI. I can't see Scum Michi/Minish and Town Vro here. Minish is a known busser, but would she do that right after pointing that out? lmao that would be WILD.
Page 35:
- I just realized the votes in the final votecounts aren't necessarily in chronological order... oof... Gerrick's vote did come late in the Phase, so I guess it was worse than I thought. I see the point of him being possibly getting bothered by something like that, yea. The only thing bothering me is, does scum really care about proving that wrong? Odds of it really being 3/4 scum is absurdly low, does anyone seriously consider a post like that D2 that noone is discussing to the point of bring it back up? It didn't even really have a real connection, it was just Red throwing his scumleans together and calling it a team. I mean it's a possibility Gerrick would maybe panic over this but it's not really like sound the alarm levels to me? It's good to keep in mind though.
Page 36:
- A bit of discussion around Gerrick's vote. I feel like there was a bit of miscomunication here actually, lol. You all seemed to be talking about slightly different things. Gerrick's play was ambiguous but the whole thing makes Red look better imo.
- Kane voting BSR outta nowhere and when it wasn't relevant bothers me.
- Anubhav voting Silver despite not having read pages 32-35 is actually really Townie and shows they're willing to take a side, even though voting on an inevitable wagon is usually if anything scummy I actually like that.
As of the apology stuff with Vro( i guess you are talking about the sorry message and me speaking on behalf of the town about him being an inevitable lynch), it was a post I simply made to see if anyone retaliates my stubborn looking post because I kinda said about an inevitable lynch , when many of the townies were sympathising Vro . Unfortunately , it really went under the radar and not much came in response, which marred my efforts
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 14, 2021, 05:06:30 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 14, 2021, 07:09:38 PM
Post by: Gerrick on February 14, 2021, 07:49:44 PM
And my comment saying I'd be willing to switch to Ruguo so late on D2 was a mistake -- you're right, I either should've just changed it or left it. I began to start typing up a Ruguo vote post before Michi had posted his vote on Ruguo, but by the time I had finished, a flurry of posts/votes came in to where it was not as needed and could be viewed as suspicious (as evidenced by Minish). Whichever way you slice it, though, if someone else had voted for Vroendal, and then someone switched from Ruguo to Vroendal to make it a coin-flip lynch (and considering the fact that Vro and cozmik did something similar on D1 and D3 to cause coin-flip lynches, it's obviously something to take into account), my vote really cemented the wagon against Ruguo.
But the reason I did address the accusation that I was tied to Ruguo was because I knew if I ignored it and then someone inevitably went back to read that day and noticed it, they'd say I was suspicious for not addressing it. Kinda damned if I do, damned if I don't. Besides, it wasn't a panic, it was just defending myself.
I don't get it, some people say only town would not defend themselves, and others are saying town would have no reason to not defend themselves since only they know they're not scum. Getting some mixed messages here...
Post by: Vroendal on February 14, 2021, 09:15:46 PM
D2 general recap and analysis:- A bit of discussion from Vro around Minish's plan. He was watching the last game in ZD where I suggested something similar, not really sure why he isn't pointing out the inconsistency in Min's thinking here.
- Vro blaming "paranoia" and others for his own actions while still saying they preferred the Michi lynch (which contradicts what they said yesterday about them both being pretty much equally null). If he's town this is something they should really consider working on.
Page 22:
- Doc makes imo a good point about either TGN or himself being Town, doesn't mean much since TGN was the one that flipped such. I didn't keep an eye on last game but I feel like he might be onto something with the Vro approach. Vro gets hyperdefensive again, I'm not fond of this attitude since people have been telling him how it was scummy and he keeps dodging it trying to find justifications and then hits them with a "well you should've said it was scummy, how'd I know??". Grr.
- Vro makes a readlist, none of the people that flipped Town are above null. While for Silver says he'd "put him in the Town reads" but decides not to, lol. He also keeps throwing shade at Michi despite being the one that avoided his lynch, which is incoherent with what he said yesterday about Michi being a Null read at the time.[/color]
- Vro jumps in TGN's wagon after Doc points out the "link" between them. This feels like an attempt to get TGN's lynch through because he knows he'll flip Town, making Doc and the people agreeing with him less suspicious of him. If he knew TGN was 13 he probably knows that is hardly a confession.
- Vro making that massive wallpost to defend himself :weary:. I find interesting that he "learned about 5 minutes before EoD that if there was a tie it would result in a coinflip", and I'm assuming it was outside the thread? This points out to him considering a tie.
- "I had said I would likely end up voting Ruguo for the reasons I had presented earlier, it should not come as a shock that I am now switching my vote now." it does come off as a shock because they were "almost Town" before. He now also seems confident that Silver will flip red and says that he "shall investigate a Minish/Ruguo scum link if Ruguo flips scum today. I think this is a good starting point.", tying a possibly strong Town player to a scumflip. He hadn't done anything as eye-catching for any of the other wagons that had happened throughout the game so this is a red flag to me. When did your read on Silver change this drastically, Vro?
Response
I skimmed the ZD game as it went, I wasn't invested in it, I honestly don't quite remember what you're talking about.
You're discounting the fact that I had no other scum leans. At that time nothing else was really standing out to me as much from the other Null reads. Any suspicion I could have had on Silver wasn't really there because Michi hadn't flipped town because he wasn't lynched at all. Blaming is a strong word, it sounds malicious, and I never said the fault lay with anyone else for the actions I took, my actions are my own and I accept that.
It's not "trying to find" justification if it actually is my justification. If my justifications sound scummy, so be it. Everything I have been has been motivated by a townie mindest.
It's actually not incoherent at all, especially with Hapi flipping town I was having remorse for my unvote, and though I had moved Michi up to Null he was still at the bottom of the list. One could argue that having the night kills as town lean in my reads would actually be far more likely to mean I'm scum, I don't profit from having the town flips in Null as scum.
My vote was completely unmotivated by any threats/allegations made by Doc, otherwise I would have voted him earlier when it wouldn't have looked suspicious. And I actually think a 13 year old would be far more likely to make a confession under pressure.
I have to make wallposts if people tunnel onto picking everything apart that I've done, that's just how thorough defenses work. I remembered that ties resulted in coinflips in the last 10 minutes and asked Lau if it was a rule of this game at that time, he said yes.
Silver's posts had been sounding townie to me when I made my readslist, but as I stated in them I kept falling back on the nagging feeling that Silv could be making those posts as scum, they weren't ringing as completely townie to me. I wasn't quite confident that Silv would flip scum either, it was just looking more and more like that would be the case as the day went on. Players were pointing out things I hadn't looked at properly before, that's just how things work sometimes, a player can notice something another doesn't. I had been wary of Silv (and Minish and Wisch) since D1 anyway because I felt like one of them was likely trying to pocket me, and Silv flipping scum would play into that as well.
You're going down a long tunnel on me Ex, and the light at the end is a big ol' green one.
You're discounting the fact that I had no other scum leans. At that time nothing else was really standing out to me as much from the other Null reads. Any suspicion I could have had on Silver wasn't really there because Michi hadn't flipped town because he wasn't lynched at all. Blaming is a strong word, it sounds malicious, and I never said the fault lay with anyone else for the actions I took, my actions are my own and I accept that.
It's not "trying to find" justification if it actually is my justification. If my justifications sound scummy, so be it. Everything I have been has been motivated by a townie mindest.
It's actually not incoherent at all, especially with Hapi flipping town I was having remorse for my unvote, and though I had moved Michi up to Null he was still at the bottom of the list. One could argue that having the night kills as town lean in my reads would actually be far more likely to mean I'm scum, I don't profit from having the town flips in Null as scum.
My vote was completely unmotivated by any threats/allegations made by Doc, otherwise I would have voted him earlier when it wouldn't have looked suspicious. And I actually think a 13 year old would be far more likely to make a confession under pressure.
I have to make wallposts if people tunnel onto picking everything apart that I've done, that's just how thorough defenses work. I remembered that ties resulted in coinflips in the last 10 minutes and asked Lau if it was a rule of this game at that time, he said yes.
Silver's posts had been sounding townie to me when I made my readslist, but as I stated in them I kept falling back on the nagging feeling that Silv could be making those posts as scum, they weren't ringing as completely townie to me. I wasn't quite confident that Silv would flip scum either, it was just looking more and more like that would be the case as the day went on. Players were pointing out things I hadn't looked at properly before, that's just how things work sometimes, a player can notice something another doesn't. I had been wary of Silv (and Minish and Wisch) since D1 anyway because I felt like one of them was likely trying to pocket me, and Silv flipping scum would play into that as well.
You're going down a long tunnel on me Ex, and the light at the end is a big ol' green one.
Post by: Vroendal on February 14, 2021, 09:18:05 PM
@Wischland I notice you've been reading, has anything stood out to you?
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 14, 2021, 10:15:43 PM
I just counter Occam's Razor, as pidley and dumb as that may be. Generally my complaint as a wolf to fellow wolves is poor communication, so organizing something like this is usually hard because there are generally 2-3 messages per night between wolves at least when I've been playing Werewolf.Also I'm pretty confident coz isn't a wolf now... no wolf pack would be stupid enough to kill the one person voting for one of them
You realize the obvious WIFOM inherent in that statement, right?
"No wolf pack would be stupid enough to do this!"
'They'd never believe we'd be crazy enough to do this, so we should do it!'
The much simpler explanation is that they're just trying to shade coz, but either way I think it's probably going to be a Kane or Moot vote today based on stuff *shrug*
Post by: Minish on February 14, 2021, 10:29:00 PM
The one interesting thing I saw because I just read Vro's previous post is that in that he said he was wary of Wisch d1 but Wisch is in his town reads d1. Funny that there are two reads lists with Wisch as town d1 and I honestly don't really remember any of Wisch's posts (this is of no offense, just meant that you haven't had a big impact on things as much as others).
Anyways I'll have to go to bed soon and I think I talked myself into this.
Vote: Gerrick
Post by: ExLight on February 14, 2021, 11:21:37 PM
If anyone has been feeling overwhelmed by the amount of posts I apologize. But I'd like to point out the only really intimidating thing lately has been the number of pages. Me and HumanDawn made a ton of posts, but most of them were really short remarks, with many of them just being us catching up with the thread.
@NyghtOwl hey queen where are you? Barely got to play withya umu
@Michi I can tell that you just want everyone to have a good time, but I don't think not engaging being fine the message you want to go through. (Psst, between us if you're a bit more active here I'll try to make sure everyone has a fun time in Spyfall how bout that? wink wink)
@Doc do you have any remarks or analysis or
@Wintermoot you actually became one of my major scumleans overnight, hi
@Wischland cute cat pfp
Post by: Wischland on February 15, 2021, 12:20:02 AM
@Wischland I notice you've been reading, has anything stood out to you?Bold of you to assume every post doesn't immediately leave my brain as soon as I'm finished reading it. :P
Well, one thing that sticks out to me is what happened to the discussion about Imaginative Kane? For being the 2nd largest wagon last day phase, I feel like there's next to nothing about them now. A few early votes then zip.
Also not really sure where those votes on Gerrick are coming from. Maybe it's just cause I have trouble reading him, but there's nothing that's really stuck out either way about him to me. Perhaps someone could explain that for me? Right now it really seems like people are digging up old dirt rather than looking through the events of the last day phase. While looking at old clues is important, it kinda feels like discussion is being directed away from recent events.
Interestingly, Vro and Wisch are the only two who voted for TGN against Sapph, but not against Kane. Dunno if that means anything.Can't speak for Vro, but as I said towards the end of D3, I didn't really feel comfortable voting TGN for D3 as people brought up points that poked holes in the arguments I based my vote on. But at that point not voting for TGN would have basically guaranteed a Sapph lynch, which I was even less comfortable with, meaning I had to keep my vote on TGN. So when the TGN wagon built up again for D4, I went with someone I found more scummy than TGN, who I was reading as town. Not sure if that's the explanation you're looking for, but that was my general reasoning for the wagon switch.
Post by: Gerrick on February 15, 2021, 12:58:44 AM
Imaginative Kane (3): Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal, cozmikrae
cozmikrae (1): Gerrick
Vroendal (1): ExLight
Gerrick (1): Minish
No vote: Doc, Red Mones, Imaginative Kane, Wintermoot, BraveSirRobin, Michi, Wischland, Anubhav Ghosh, NyghtOwl
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 15, 2021, 02:30:04 AM
But I do have a vote. And it's a little out of nowhere I'll admit. I don't have the experience y'all have so I've mainly been going off of my gut. This is along the same lines but I'm not able to read things quite as well so here it is.
I've had my suspicions since the beginning that our wolves are more experienced players. The two players tripping my sensors since the beginning have been Brave Sir Robin and Wintermoot.
BSR has given me some pretty good insight to his playstyle and accounted for his actions. I haven't seen that same from Wintermoot.
So,
Vote Wintermoot
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 15, 2021, 02:36:45 AM
You being a new player doesn’t mean a free pass for scummy actions, lol. It only gives a different context on what we should be considering scummy.
Ofc not , but i certainly did not understand the softening up sruff genuinely and that is a mass opinion other than my own . As of being scummy , I haven't done a thing that looks non-town i guess , and the actions which did seem so , had a logical defense as well.
Post by: ExLight on February 15, 2021, 02:42:10 AM
gonna head to bed
I won’t be able to finish the D3 recap in time but I’ll try making them for the next Day despite not having access to mobile
but I think most of what happened was just us following the other wagons, as I don’t remember many updated readlists from players that we could work with
ExLight
Red Mones
Ogun of Valeria / Legacy of Smiles
Minish
cozmikrae
Michi
Anubhav Ghosh
Wischland
Doc
Gerrick
Imaginative Kane
NyghtOwl
BraveSirRobin
Wintermoot
Vroendal
Updated rainbowlist based on what I’ve seen up to halfway D3, though. Doc and Gerrick are slight townleans that I’m hesitating putting in green because I think I need to think more about them.
Post by: Doc on February 15, 2021, 02:48:31 AM
Doc do you have any remarks or analysis orYou know that feeling when you think you've solved the puzzle, and then you grab the last piece, and it doesn't fit, and then you look closer and not only is it not even the right color but it's actually a Lego brick, and now that you're looking at the 'solved puzzle' it's actually a chaotic mess with 'Pepe Silvia' scrawled all over it like you're a goddamn lunatic (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5RXSFwlY-bY/maxresdefault.jpg)?
That's where I was at last EOD. I've tunneled in so hard on TGN and Vroendal being 'obvious scumbuds' that now that that's almost assuredly not the case I am basically totally fucking lost and I've got to rebuild everything from the ground up...or at least EOD1. Which is going to be a bitch, but whatever, I guess that's what I'll spend tomorrow doing.
For now, I'm working on the theory that scum essentially knew this was their last, best chance to drive a TGN mislynch yesterday, and I should thus assume that two or possibly even all of them hopped on the wagon yesterday. If Kane gets lynched and flips scum, then I think we can be reasonably confident that it was all three on the TGN wagon yesterday, since that would be the only way to ensure a mislynch against the 6 votes he'd picked up yesterday.
If that's the case, that would basically dictate that suspicion should fall either on Minish or Exlight, as the two people who have been most in the driver's seat pushing gameplay and opinion forward, particularly considering the often-voiced fear/suspicion that someone is powerwolfing hard. Whoever the fourth wolf would be (assuming my prior axioms of 1) Kane is scum, 2) all scum voted for TGN D4 and 3) one of either Minish or Exlight is scum are all true, which is bold) would then probably be either Wintermoot or Gerrick.
This is all very provisional and even more circumstantial; I'll need to do some much more robust vote analysis - including possible votes that were made to try and cement a wagon as among the frontrunners, then withdrawn before EOD, which we seem to have neglected in most of our vote analysis - to work out a viable PoE route.
But I'm trying to lay my cards out on the table so people can tell me if my theory is stupid. Time to ISO Kane and see if I can pick up anything else that bears fruit.
45 minutes and his 25 posts later, the only thing that's really tripping me up - but is tripping me up very hard - in his conduct from the last day is this line. There's other stuff too; a long-term early focus on BSR
If TGN is voted off and ends up being town than I will not post in this thread the next day to make any defense (if I am still suspicious).He has done so; not word one from him in this day phase in self-defense. So it's not like he lied about that.
But to my mind it feels like he knew exactly which way it was going to flip, and prepared for it with a hail-Mary 'well if I cause town to be mislynched, I'm so guilty about it that I'm obviously not scum'. The reason this seems like a scum move to me because of course scum will know when someone is gonna be mislynched; it's every time someone gets lynched that isn't one of them, and they can abuse this to be 'obviously opposed' to what eventually turn out to be mislynches that then helps them build brownie points with town. It's the sort of thing I was trying to drive when I was trying to push either Vro or Lau to lynch each other on D2 last game while still keeping my hands clean from ever actually being on either wagon. Obviously Kane didn't have that luxury this time round, but on the other hand he had the supreme NAI excuse of 'my head was on the chopping block, I did what I had to do to survive'.
But to be perfectly candid, I'm not sure about this vote. There's a very real chance I'm doing the exact same thing I did with Vro-TGN, where I formed a theory, developed it to a 'solved state', then tunneled in onto it as being Obviously The Correct Answer.
But I'm as sure as I'll probably get to be within the next 6ish hours, and that's when EOD hits (assuming Lau's gonna close the thread roughly 48 hours after he reopened it).
Vote: Kane
Post by: ExLight on February 15, 2021, 03:30:10 AM
Hmm, should I push for Moot or let things happen. I really don’t want to push for someone I’m not as into as Vro and not be around EoD.
I think I’m overthinking and mildly fine with a Kane lynch.
Anyway, Doc your ‘axioms’ are just hypothesis, and they’re completely separate from each other. I feel like it’s more likely for scum to just be watching than actively pushing lynches, specially considering Town still has a major advantage compared to a common game lol (we right now have 13? alive town and 3 scum, while the usual for a game is 9 town and 3 scum) which means scum has/had very limited power in intervening in the last lynches. I’m not sure why the drama saying things don’t make sense like we’ve been on the wrong track when the odds of mislynching weren’t that unexpected; and while the point of the TGN’s lynch was mainly wagonomics information (stuff of which you were defending D1 when pursuing Hapi) which I think it made the pretty decent town core Smiles presented.
And it’s more like everyone has been on the passenger seat rather than me and Minish on the diver seat. Not sure why throwing shade at us when we’re here expecting yall to share your thoughts too umu
I’m also not really sure why you’re clearing Vro under the idea that because TGN flipped Town so should Vro. Your logic was that they were buddies because they weren’t voting each other to save themselves, TGN doesn’t seem to have a grasp on the game or maturity enough to understand the importance of that, but Vro does. I’m also not sure why you’re not considering that both scum would vote each other to distance if the leading ones are scum-scum either. umu
On a completely unrelated note I kinda want to say some stuff about what I’d consider the optimal play for the roles here is them acting extremely towny. Usually power roles kinda want to have a bit of suspicion on them or lay low, but I feel like it’s important to point this out this setup isn’t the usual. Scum doesn’t have a way to disrupt the power roles like a roleblocker or a modifier to get the kill through, so the power roles need to be extremely towny to not only not be lynched but to be obvious power role targets. Town actually strongly benefits from having all their roles outed (which is why roleclaiming is forbidden here) or at least associated to the towniest people. So also please don’t forget to leave some really discreet but not undetectable crumbs? umu
Minish might throw shade at me here because she associates me discussing power optimization as scum too, but eh. I just don’t want a Sapph 2.0 to happen.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 15, 2021, 04:27:44 AM
Strike the iron when its hot ;)
Vote: Wintermoot
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 15, 2021, 04:29:07 AM
As I had earlier said , I will go for a person during voting who was aggressive on Vro on D2 and also had voted for Sapph on D3 , inspite of having experience enough to see that Sapph was softening a PR. The person who fits my criteria is Moot , and though there is a Kane wagon, I think I will vote Moot to ensure that this trail doesn't grow cold
Strike the iron when its hot ;)
Vote: Wintermoot
EBWOP
Post by: Wischland on February 15, 2021, 04:37:59 AM
Either way, I think Doc makes some good points, plus the sudden disappearance of discussion on Imaginative Kane makes me think someone powerwolf directed discussion away. I honestly don't have any super strong scum reads on anyone, so I'll just go for what seems like the best option right now.
Vote: Imaginative Kane
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 15, 2021, 05:00:36 AM
Vote: Wintermoot
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 15, 2021, 05:02:52 AM
Post by: Wintermoot on February 15, 2021, 06:11:49 AM
Also @Wintermoot you never gave me a reason why you stayed Sapph after soft claim? If you could give one that would be helpful for everyone (if of course my reasoning is incorrect and you are town, which is certainly possible)! :)I believe I've already answered this in my last post. The fact that everyone acts like saying "I'm more useful to town alive" like it's some sort of solemn vow that they're a power role, much less a townie, is ridiculous. Again, if that's all it takes to get people to avoid suspicion, then the wolves should be all over it. I've posted my logic for each vote and anything that I've found suspecious, and I stand by my vote on Sapph given everything that we knew at the time...he was more suspicious than TGN (who was town as well anyways).
In any case, I'm going to vote: Doc for the reasons that I indicated in my last few posts such as this one (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157284).
Post by: Red Mones on February 15, 2021, 06:25:08 AM
Vote: Gerrick
I don't have time to explain right now, I'll do so next day phase.
Post by: Laurentus on February 15, 2021, 08:46:56 AM
Wintermoot - 3 (Anubhav Ghosh, BraveSirRobin, NyghtOwl)
Gerrick - 2 (Minish, Red Mones)
Vroendal - 1 (ExLight)
Doc - 1 (Wintermoot)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Gerrick)
Imaginative Kane is therefore lynched. He was a normal Scout.
The night phase will be a bit shorter. I will start the phase again in 21 hours.
Post by: Laurentus on February 16, 2021, 06:07:56 AM
And with that, it's the start of the next day phase.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 06:37:46 AM
My FoS remains of Moot . One other thing I feel is that the person who subbed in for Ogun might be a scum . Ruguo went unnaturally impulsive , well over the limits on Ogun on D1, which after a week of experience seems distancing to me and Ruguo has a taste for distancing . For the next day , I would happily be in the forefront when it comes to initiating a wagon . Last few days didn't go well .
As of Moot , well all love talking Moot and not voting on him . The discussion starts and dies down and this has been the case for sometime now.
Sapph mentioned about consecutive wolf . I am not sure if he came across a scum or not but Doc was a scum last game .
BSR seemed straightforward to me . As of others , I have not much idea and my views might depend on what others say
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 06:42:48 AM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 06:44:32 AM
At this moment , I think I won't even trust a single player and keep someone as top town or top scum lean
My FoS remains of Moot . One other thing I feel is that the person who subbed in for Ogun might be a scum . Ruguo went unnaturally impulsive , well over the limits on Ogun on D1, which after a week of experience seems distancing to me and Ruguo has a taste for distancing . For the this day, I would happily be in the forefront when it comes to initiating a wagon . Last few days didn't go well .
As of Moot , well all love talking Moot and not voting on him . The discussion starts and dies down and this has been the case for sometime now.
Sapph mentioned about consecutive wolf . I am not sure if he came across a scum or not but Doc was a scum last game .
BSR seemed straightforward to me . As of others , I have not much idea and my views might depend on what others say
I got a taste for EBWOP , I have used it like anything😅
Post by: cozmikrae on February 16, 2021, 07:15:53 AM
Does anyone feel uneasy about Legacy of Smiles
I don't, but I can't say I've absorbed their posts at all. I'm feeling uneasy about Gerrick and I was feeling uneasy about ExLight.
Any new reasons for sussing Legacy? Other than the possible Ruguo distancing?
Post by: ExLight on February 16, 2021, 09:05:42 AM
I’m not going to be here listening people sussing me when I pinkie promised being town. I don’t think yall realize how much I value that. umu
And specially after the massive amount of effort I’ve been trying to put in the game lately, it almost offends me.
Also I thought Kane was possibly softing Doctor which was why I was suddenly against his lynch, but I realized he probably wasn’t since he was uncaring about getting lynched. I feel like I softed that suspicion enough for it to be noticeable so I wouldn’t be surprised if one or two scum noticed and pushed his lynch.
In any case, I hope people make updated readlists with original thoughts for this phase. So far I’m more inclined to stay on Vro.
All he’s been doing lately is defend himself and kinda just sheep people’s opinions, and that’s pinging me. I’ll keep tunneling him for now while I make the recap for D3.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 09:09:23 AM
Nooooooo
I’m not going to be here listening people sussing me when I pinkie promised being town. I don’t think yall realize how much I value that. umu
And specially after the massive amount of effort I’ve been trying to put in the game lately, it almost offends me.
Also I thought Kane was possibly softing Doctor which was why I was suddenly against his lynch, but I realized he probably wasn’t since he was uncaring about getting lynched. I feel like I softed that suspicion enough for it to be noticeable so I wouldn’t be surprised if one or two scum noticed and pushed his lynch.
In any case, I hope people make updated readlists with original thoughts for this phase. So far I’m more inclined to stay on Vro.
All he’s been doing lately is defend himself and kinda just sheep people’s opinions, and that’s pinging me. I’ll keep tunneling him for now while I make the recap for D3.
Even I thought about hin possibly having a power role which is why I held back , btw anything u feel about Legacy which seems off ?
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 09:09:44 AM
Does anyone feel uneasy about Legacy of Smiles
I don't, but I can't say I've absorbed their posts at all. I'm feeling uneasy about Gerrick and I was feeling uneasy about ExLight.
Any new reasons for sussing Legacy? Other than the possible Ruguo distancing?
Not yet . I will explore his posts
Post by: ExLight on February 16, 2021, 09:20:43 AM
Even I thought about hin possibly having a power role which is why I held back , btw anything u feel about Legacy which seems off ?No, not really. I feel like he has been legit trying to solve the game, so I’d be a surprised if he was scum. Can you elaborate on why though? Did any of their posts or reads rub you the wrong way?
I’d appreciate if people started working on the habit of making rainbow lists, keeping them updated is kinda important.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 09:22:54 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 09:24:49 AM
Even I thought about hin possibly having a power role which is why I held back , btw anything u feel about Legacy which seems off ?No, not really. I feel like he has been legit trying to solve the game, so I’d be a surprised if he was scum. Can you elaborate on why though? Did any of their posts or reads rub you the wrong way?
I’d appreciate if people started working on the habit of making rainbow lists, keeping them updated is kinda important.
My reads list has completely changed a lot so I think I might have to post another already. I think there are definitely people who are going under our radars who I'm worried about.
BTW I want to +1 this and say if you have the time to post a reads list, even with no explanations or anything, please do.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 09:44:16 AM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 10:10:06 AM
Even I thought about hin possibly having a power role which is why I held back , btw anything u feel about Legacy which seems off ?No, not really. I feel like he has been legit trying to solve the game, so I’d be a surprised if he was scum. Can you elaborate on why though? Did any of their posts or reads rub you the wrong way?
I’d appreciate if people started working on the habit of making rainbow lists, keeping them updated is kinda important.
Remember his post , where he refused defense and we thought he might be unlynchable . I thought that statement to be exact opposite , and felt that he might indicate a power and not lynchproof abilities . It basically seems wrong reasoning to me now though( there are much less enigmatic ways to soften)
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 10:18:29 AM
Anubhav, could you explain to me why you think the interactions between Ogun/Ruguo could be distancing but not the interactions between Michi/Ruguo?
I didn't make any comment on Michi/Ruguo distancing as of now, and ngl I might have overlooked it . Maybe u can quote the parts u think are possible distancing methods.
However the Ogun interaction caught my eyes immediately for its strangeness and the foolery around it . It was also established that Ogun was casual and immature . Distancing has always been a play for Ruguo and I believe any of his distancing attempts need attention . Ogun interaction came down very fast and early in the game , also with good amount of independency from Ruguo's side as he was the only one talking about it other than Kane . As of Michi ; Vro , Wisch spoke and it was looking a possible wagon already , so for a scum it would not be a bad attempt, throwing suspicion and add weightage and get better camouflaged as town for sometime
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 10:22:56 AM
Even I thought about hin possibly having a power role which is why I held back , btw anything u feel about Legacy which seems off ?No, not really. I feel like he has been legit trying to solve the game, so I’d be a surprised if he was scum. Can you elaborate on why though? Did any of their posts or reads rub you the wrong way?
I’d appreciate if people started working on the habit of making rainbow lists, keeping them updated is kinda important.
My reads list has completely changed a lot so I think I might have to post another already. I think there are definitely people who are going under our radars who I'm worried about.
BTW I want to +1 this and say if you have the time to post a reads list, even with no explanations or anything, please do.
Who are those under the radar people . We need to nudge and poke and push them , inactivity and subsequent toen core placement aren't the same. One insightful post which makes us feel that he is a genuine town and then MIA , makes almost all of us hold back the idea of how helpful and insightful he was , without further discussion
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 10:32:51 AM
Well I was kind of hoping somebody would answer that before I made my reads list to see where they were at themselves but the two people I had in mind when writing that were Nyght and Wischland who have both been at least fairly towny but not in the thread very much. Considering that I don't think all of my scumreads are w/w together, I would like to discuss those people more.Even I thought about hin possibly having a power role which is why I held back , btw anything u feel about Legacy which seems off ?No, not really. I feel like he has been legit trying to solve the game, so I’d be a surprised if he was scum. Can you elaborate on why though? Did any of their posts or reads rub you the wrong way?
I’d appreciate if people started working on the habit of making rainbow lists, keeping them updated is kinda important.
My reads list has completely changed a lot so I think I might have to post another already. I think there are definitely people who are going under our radars who I'm worried about.
BTW I want to +1 this and say if you have the time to post a reads list, even with no explanations or anything, please do.
Who are those under the radar people . We need to nudge and poke and push them , inactivity and subsequent toen core placement aren't the same. One insightful post which makes us feel that he is a genuine town and then MIA , makes almost all of us hold back the idea of how helpful and insightful he was , without further discussion
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 10:39:14 AM
I can lynch some Michi stuff later but if I recall it's something very similar to how he treat Ogun. I think you're confusing something possibly happening to something being likely to happen. I've just looked back and I don't see at all how Ruguo/Ogun interactions make me more likely to be a wolf than if those interactions didn't exist for example. Obviously you bring up a good point in that those interactions could be distancing (I'm not sure enough on how Ruguo usually acts to tell you if that's normal for him or not) and obviously I shouldn't be cleared town for that reason but, still, I don't think the case you're making about being a partner with Ruguo because of distancing / other interaction can't be applied to almost any player.Anubhav, could you explain to me why you think the interactions between Ogun/Ruguo could be distancing but not the interactions between Michi/Ruguo?
I didn't make any comment on Michi/Ruguo distancing as of now, and ngl I might have overlooked it . Maybe u can quote the parts u think are possible distancing methods.
However the Ogun interaction caught my eyes immediately for its strangeness and the foolery around it . It was also established that Ogun was casual and immature . Distancing has always been a play for Ruguo and I believe any of his distancing attempts need attention . Ogun interaction came down very fast and early in the game , also with good amount of independency from Ruguo's side as he was the only one talking about it other than Kane . As of Michi ; Vro , Wisch spoke and it was looking a possible wagon already , so for a scum it would not be a bad attempt, throwing suspicion and add weightage and get better camouflaged as town for sometime
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 10:39:53 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 10:50:20 AM
At this moment , I think I won't even trust a single player and keep someone as top town or top scum leanAlright so I've got a couple of issues with this post that I'd like to iron out with you.
My FoS remains of Moot . One other thing I feel is that the person who subbed in for Ogun might be a scum . Ruguo went unnaturally impulsive , well over the limits on Ogun on D1, which after a week of experience seems distancing to me and Ruguo has a taste for distancing . For the next day , I would happily be in the forefront when it comes to initiating a wagon . Last few days didn't go well .
As of Moot , well all love talking Moot and not voting on him . The discussion starts and dies down and this has been the case for sometime now.
Sapph mentioned about consecutive wolf . I am not sure if he came across a scum or not but Doc was a scum last game .
BSR seemed straightforward to me . As of others , I have not much idea and my views might depend on what others say
You're making a lot of scum reads and saying you don't want to make town reads and, honestly, this isn't a good play.
I just want to say something in bold first: it is ok to have wrong reads. But saying you won't make town reads is the worst most you could make. It's ten times easier to find a townsperson than it is a wolf and that's not an exaggeration. It is so much more helpful if you find one person you genuinely believe is town compared to some people who may or may not be a wolf. The single best way of finding wolves in my opinion is by finding people who are townspeople and narrowing down the list of suspects. If you only want to focus on one type of reads, making good town reads are probably the most important ones you could do!
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 10:51:37 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 11:02:57 AM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 12:45:37 PM
At this moment , I think I won't even trust a single player and keep someone as top town or top scum leanAlright so I've got a couple of issues with this post that I'd like to iron out with you.
My FoS remains of Moot . One other thing I feel is that the person who subbed in for Ogun might be a scum . Ruguo went unnaturally impulsive , well over the limits on Ogun on D1, which after a week of experience seems distancing to me and Ruguo has a taste for distancing . For the next day , I would happily be in the forefront when it comes to initiating a wagon . Last few days didn't go well .
As of Moot , well all love talking Moot and not voting on him . The discussion starts and dies down and this has been the case for sometime now.
Sapph mentioned about consecutive wolf . I am not sure if he came across a scum or not but Doc was a scum last game .
BSR seemed straightforward to me . As of others , I have not much idea and my views might depend on what others say
You're making a lot of scum reads and saying you don't want to make town reads and, honestly, this isn't a good play.
I just want to say something in bold first: it is ok to have wrong reads. But saying you won't make town reads is the worst most you could make. It's ten times easier to find a townsperson than it is a wolf and that's not an exaggeration. It is so much more helpful if you find one person you genuinely believe is town compared to some people who may or may not be a wolf. The single best way of finding wolves in my opinion is by finding people who are townspeople and narrowing down the list of suspects. If you only want to focus on one type of reads, making good town reads are probably the most important ones you could do!
I don't want to reveal the people I trust the most , u can say that I keep everyone into null or town lean, basically I tried to provide my list of suspect and not a read in general since i don't have the eyes or experience to look into towniness right way . The method i am using might turn out to be exclusively for this game only.
If I am asked to make a scumlean list , it would look like :
Moot , Doc , Legacy of Smiles and more. Take the more as people whose actions give me no vibes at all😅
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 12:48:04 PM
I don't think there's any reason not to share town reads, even if they're wrong they are still helpful. And if they were wrong, you're more likely to have people realise and explain why instead of following them wronglyAt this moment , I think I won't even trust a single player and keep someone as top town or top scum leanAlright so I've got a couple of issues with this post that I'd like to iron out with you.
My FoS remains of Moot . One other thing I feel is that the person who subbed in for Ogun might be a scum . Ruguo went unnaturally impulsive , well over the limits on Ogun on D1, which after a week of experience seems distancing to me and Ruguo has a taste for distancing . For the next day , I would happily be in the forefront when it comes to initiating a wagon . Last few days didn't go well .
As of Moot , well all love talking Moot and not voting on him . The discussion starts and dies down and this has been the case for sometime now.
Sapph mentioned about consecutive wolf . I am not sure if he came across a scum or not but Doc was a scum last game .
BSR seemed straightforward to me . As of others , I have not much idea and my views might depend on what others say
You're making a lot of scum reads and saying you don't want to make town reads and, honestly, this isn't a good play.
I just want to say something in bold first: it is ok to have wrong reads. But saying you won't make town reads is the worst most you could make. It's ten times easier to find a townsperson than it is a wolf and that's not an exaggeration. It is so much more helpful if you find one person you genuinely believe is town compared to some people who may or may not be a wolf. The single best way of finding wolves in my opinion is by finding people who are townspeople and narrowing down the list of suspects. If you only want to focus on one type of reads, making good town reads are probably the most important ones you could do!
I don't want to reveal the people I trust the most , u can say that I keep everyone into null or town lean, basically I tried to provide my list of suspect and not a read in general since i don't have the eyes or experience to look into towniness right way . The method i am using might turn out to be exclusively for this game only.
If I am asked to make a scumlean list , it would look like :
Moot , Doc , Legacy of Smiles and more. Take the more as people whose actions give me no vibes at all😅
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 12:52:18 PM
Also I think if Moot and Doc aren't on the same team , which is why i think either Moot or Doc is scum. Personally I would say Moot cannot harm us by influential posts , he is inactive but Doc is active , got the influence coming in at times . If there are two wagons next up , I am going for Doc
Sapph did mention about consecutive wolf, maybe we can pay some attention to that as well
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 12:56:38 PM
Its not about hiding or not sharing , its about finding comments that I can trust , but I don't know what to trust and what not to . As of being wrong , everyone has been wrong about Kane , TGN etc , being wrong doesn't concern meI don't think there's any reason not to share town reads, even if they're wrong they are still helpful. And if they were wrong, you're more likely to have people realise and explain why instead of following them wronglyAt this moment , I think I won't even trust a single player and keep someone as top town or top scum leanAlright so I've got a couple of issues with this post that I'd like to iron out with you.
My FoS remains of Moot . One other thing I feel is that the person who subbed in for Ogun might be a scum . Ruguo went unnaturally impulsive , well over the limits on Ogun on D1, which after a week of experience seems distancing to me and Ruguo has a taste for distancing . For the next day , I would happily be in the forefront when it comes to initiating a wagon . Last few days didn't go well .
As of Moot , well all love talking Moot and not voting on him . The discussion starts and dies down and this has been the case for sometime now.
Sapph mentioned about consecutive wolf . I am not sure if he came across a scum or not but Doc was a scum last game .
BSR seemed straightforward to me . As of others , I have not much idea and my views might depend on what others say
You're making a lot of scum reads and saying you don't want to make town reads and, honestly, this isn't a good play.
I just want to say something in bold first: it is ok to have wrong reads. But saying you won't make town reads is the worst most you could make. It's ten times easier to find a townsperson than it is a wolf and that's not an exaggeration. It is so much more helpful if you find one person you genuinely believe is town compared to some people who may or may not be a wolf. The single best way of finding wolves in my opinion is by finding people who are townspeople and narrowing down the list of suspects. If you only want to focus on one type of reads, making good town reads are probably the most important ones you could do!
I don't want to reveal the people I trust the most , u can say that I keep everyone into null or town lean, basically I tried to provide my list of suspect and not a read in general since i don't have the eyes or experience to look into towniness right way . The method i am using might turn out to be exclusively for this game only.
If I am asked to make a scumlean list , it would look like :
Moot , Doc , Legacy of Smiles and more. Take the more as people whose actions give me no vibes at all😅
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 01:00:51 PM
Things like this make me think you're 99% town and I'm probably going to ride or die on you being town tbh. I hope you don't mind the feedback I'm trying to give you? If you don't want it, I'll stop but I think you would benefit a lot from it (and I don't want this to sound like I don't think you're a capable player, because I do, but I don't agree with your current approach to the game).Its not about hiding or not sharing , its about finding comments that I can trust , but I don't know what to trust and what not to . As of being wrong , everyone has been wrong about Kane , TGN etc , being wrong doesn't concern meI don't think there's any reason not to share town reads, even if they're wrong they are still helpful. And if they were wrong, you're more likely to have people realise and explain why instead of following them wronglyAt this moment , I think I won't even trust a single player and keep someone as top town or top scum leanAlright so I've got a couple of issues with this post that I'd like to iron out with you.
My FoS remains of Moot . One other thing I feel is that the person who subbed in for Ogun might be a scum . Ruguo went unnaturally impulsive , well over the limits on Ogun on D1, which after a week of experience seems distancing to me and Ruguo has a taste for distancing . For the next day , I would happily be in the forefront when it comes to initiating a wagon . Last few days didn't go well .
As of Moot , well all love talking Moot and not voting on him . The discussion starts and dies down and this has been the case for sometime now.
Sapph mentioned about consecutive wolf . I am not sure if he came across a scum or not but Doc was a scum last game .
BSR seemed straightforward to me . As of others , I have not much idea and my views might depend on what others say
You're making a lot of scum reads and saying you don't want to make town reads and, honestly, this isn't a good play.
I just want to say something in bold first: it is ok to have wrong reads. But saying you won't make town reads is the worst most you could make. It's ten times easier to find a townsperson than it is a wolf and that's not an exaggeration. It is so much more helpful if you find one person you genuinely believe is town compared to some people who may or may not be a wolf. The single best way of finding wolves in my opinion is by finding people who are townspeople and narrowing down the list of suspects. If you only want to focus on one type of reads, making good town reads are probably the most important ones you could do!
I don't want to reveal the people I trust the most , u can say that I keep everyone into null or town lean, basically I tried to provide my list of suspect and not a read in general since i don't have the eyes or experience to look into towniness right way . The method i am using might turn out to be exclusively for this game only.
If I am asked to make a scumlean list , it would look like :
Moot , Doc , Legacy of Smiles and more. Take the more as people whose actions give me no vibes at all😅
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 01:02:04 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 01:09:50 PM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 01:20:11 PM
Ok so if don't know where to start in making townreads, how about you start by explaining the whys on your scumreads to me. Logically, townspeople should be doing the opposite of what you explain, right?
Townspeople won't do opposite , Scummy people will play town with some unwanted deviations. From Ruguo lynch I have seen this thing , scum plays like town and makes unwanted deviation and that catches our eyes.
Moot: Quite suspicious voting , total disregard for PR softening .
Doc: Sapph said about consecutive wolf possibility , which makes me feel Doc might be a scum. This is a weak lead to me though , but there is no harm in mentioning.
Legacy of Smiles: Obvious distancing attempt from Ruguo on Ogun/Legacy , definitely looks his established scum play . But it was D1 , random pushes and pokes stay on , so I guess this is a weak trail.
Cozmikrae: Anomalous role in Sapph lynch from cozmik , and then raising suspicion on Vro and my alliance , which i look upon as a cover up , as her vote was the deciding factor and my ignorance of softening is deemed genuine by most . Red Mones' attempt to defend her looks bit off to me but Red Mones isn't a hot target for me now.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 01:23:35 PM
Ok Anubhav, why don't you tell me your thoughts on either Wischland or NyghtOwl?
Not much on Wisch , other than his D1 support of Vro's comment , which was genuine point in D1 respect. As of NyghtOwl she tried hitting Vro on D2 about sowing mistrust , but that is quite normal , pitting a townie on another and see what goes , but again i can't tell if it defines scummy action or town action . I don't know or recall her present stance on Vro , if she is still suspicious of Vro , she might also be suspicious of me , but well she didn't bring me into his posts much.
Post by: ExLight on February 16, 2021, 01:25:09 PM
this kind of comment trying to abstain from responsibility actually makes me more wary of them lolThings like this make me think you're 99% town and I'm probably going to ride or die on you being town tbh. I hope you don't mind the feedback I'm trying to give you? If you don't want it, I'll stop but I think you would benefit a lot from it (and I don't want this to sound like I don't think you're a capable player, because I do, but I don't agree with your current approach to the game).Its not about hiding or not sharing , its about finding comments that I can trust , but I don't know what to trust and what not to . As of being wrong , everyone has been wrong about Kane , TGN etc , being wrong doesn't concern meI don't think there's any reason not to share town reads, even if they're wrong they are still helpful. And if they were wrong, you're more likely to have people realise and explain why instead of following them wronglyAt this moment , I think I won't even trust a single player and keep someone as top town or top scum leanAlright so I've got a couple of issues with this post that I'd like to iron out with you.
My FoS remains of Moot . One other thing I feel is that the person who subbed in for Ogun might be a scum . Ruguo went unnaturally impulsive , well over the limits on Ogun on D1, which after a week of experience seems distancing to me and Ruguo has a taste for distancing . For the next day , I would happily be in the forefront when it comes to initiating a wagon . Last few days didn't go well .
As of Moot , well all love talking Moot and not voting on him . The discussion starts and dies down and this has been the case for sometime now.
Sapph mentioned about consecutive wolf . I am not sure if he came across a scum or not but Doc was a scum last game .
BSR seemed straightforward to me . As of others , I have not much idea and my views might depend on what others say
You're making a lot of scum reads and saying you don't want to make town reads and, honestly, this isn't a good play.
I just want to say something in bold first: it is ok to have wrong reads. But saying you won't make town reads is the worst most you could make. It's ten times easier to find a townsperson than it is a wolf and that's not an exaggeration. It is so much more helpful if you find one person you genuinely believe is town compared to some people who may or may not be a wolf. The single best way of finding wolves in my opinion is by finding people who are townspeople and narrowing down the list of suspects. If you only want to focus on one type of reads, making good town reads are probably the most important ones you could do!
I don't want to reveal the people I trust the most , u can say that I keep everyone into null or town lean, basically I tried to provide my list of suspect and not a read in general since i don't have the eyes or experience to look into towniness right way . The method i am using might turn out to be exclusively for this game only.
If I am asked to make a scumlean list , it would look like :
Moot , Doc , Legacy of Smiles and more. Take the more as people whose actions give me no vibes at all😅
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 01:28:23 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 01:31:27 PM
Ok so if don't know where to start in making townreads, how about you start by explaining the whys on your scumreads to me. Logically, townspeople should be doing the opposite of what you explain, right?
Townspeople won't do opposite , Scummy people will play town with some unwanted deviations. From Ruguo lynch I have seen this thing , scum plays like town and makes unwanted deviation and that catches our eyes.
Moot: Quite suspicious voting , total disregard for PR softening .
Doc: Sapph said about consecutive wolf possibility , which makes me feel Doc might be a scum. This is a weak lead to me though , but there is no harm in mentioning.
Legacy of Smiles: Obvious distancing attempt from Ruguo on Ogun/Legacy , definitely looks his established scum play . But it was D1 , random pushes and pokes stay on , so I guess this is a weak trail.
Cozmikrae: Anomalous role in Sapph lynch from cozmik , and then raising suspicion on Vro and my alliance , which i look upon as a cover up , as her vote was the deciding factor and my ignorance of softening is deemed genuine by most . Red Mones' attempt to defend her looks bit off to me but Red Mones isn't a hot target for me now.
Yeah my point of it being the opposite was a gross oversimplification but shh nobody needs to know. ;)
Moot - Agree on both of your points.
Doc - I don't agree that Sapph was purposefully pushing Doc with that comment honestly, I believe it was more likely that Sapph was slightly suspicious of Doc and was worried that they would be accidentally cleared from suspicion by people thinking that he probably couldn't roll wolf twice in a row. What are your thoughts on this explanation?
cozmikrae - Not sure how I feel about this slot yet. Do you believe that cozmik and Wintermoot could be on the same team given how they both voted Sapph, or do you believe it is more likely one or the other?
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 01:37:32 PM
this kind of comment trying to abstain from responsibility actually makes me more wary of them lolThings like this make me think you're 99% town and I'm probably going to ride or die on you being town tbh. I hope you don't mind the feedback I'm trying to give you? If you don't want it, I'll stop but I think you would benefit a lot from it (and I don't want this to sound like I don't think you're a capable player, because I do, but I don't agree with your current approach to the game).Its not about hiding or not sharing , its about finding comments that I can trust , but I don't know what to trust and what not to . As of being wrong , everyone has been wrong about Kane , TGN etc , being wrong doesn't concern meI don't think there's any reason not to share town reads, even if they're wrong they are still helpful. And if they were wrong, you're more likely to have people realise and explain why instead of following them wronglyAt this moment , I think I won't even trust a single player and keep someone as top town or top scum leanAlright so I've got a couple of issues with this post that I'd like to iron out with you.
My FoS remains of Moot . One other thing I feel is that the person who subbed in for Ogun might be a scum . Ruguo went unnaturally impulsive , well over the limits on Ogun on D1, which after a week of experience seems distancing to me and Ruguo has a taste for distancing . For the next day , I would happily be in the forefront when it comes to initiating a wagon . Last few days didn't go well .
As of Moot , well all love talking Moot and not voting on him . The discussion starts and dies down and this has been the case for sometime now.
Sapph mentioned about consecutive wolf . I am not sure if he came across a scum or not but Doc was a scum last game .
BSR seemed straightforward to me . As of others , I have not much idea and my views might depend on what others say
You're making a lot of scum reads and saying you don't want to make town reads and, honestly, this isn't a good play.
I just want to say something in bold first: it is ok to have wrong reads. But saying you won't make town reads is the worst most you could make. It's ten times easier to find a townsperson than it is a wolf and that's not an exaggeration. It is so much more helpful if you find one person you genuinely believe is town compared to some people who may or may not be a wolf. The single best way of finding wolves in my opinion is by finding people who are townspeople and narrowing down the list of suspects. If you only want to focus on one type of reads, making good town reads are probably the most important ones you could do!
I don't want to reveal the people I trust the most , u can say that I keep everyone into null or town lean, basically I tried to provide my list of suspect and not a read in general since i don't have the eyes or experience to look into towniness right way . The method i am using might turn out to be exclusively for this game only.
If I am asked to make a scumlean list , it would look like :
Moot , Doc , Legacy of Smiles and more. Take the more as people whose actions give me no vibes at all😅
Don't make me wary of your pinkie promise lol 🤣
Jokes apart , I am not trying to abstain from responsibility , I am using this game to learn townreading . I can explain well why i suspect a person , and its 100 times easier than scrutinizing posts for town read to me for time being . I said that my abstain principle might be exceptionally for this game only and the next game would have my townreads , if you pinkie promise to give me a crash course on townreading after this game ends ;)
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 01:42:46 PM
Ok so if don't know where to start in making townreads, how about you start by explaining the whys on your scumreads to me. Logically, townspeople should be doing the opposite of what you explain, right?
Townspeople won't do opposite , Scummy people will play town with some unwanted deviations. From Ruguo lynch I have seen this thing , scum plays like town and makes unwanted deviation and that catches our eyes.
Moot: Quite suspicious voting , total disregard for PR softening .
Doc: Sapph said about consecutive wolf possibility , which makes me feel Doc might be a scum. This is a weak lead to me though , but there is no harm in mentioning.
Legacy of Smiles: Obvious distancing attempt from Ruguo on Ogun/Legacy , definitely looks his established scum play . But it was D1 , random pushes and pokes stay on , so I guess this is a weak trail.
Cozmikrae: Anomalous role in Sapph lynch from cozmik , and then raising suspicion on Vro and my alliance , which i look upon as a cover up , as her vote was the deciding factor and my ignorance of softening is deemed genuine by most . Red Mones' attempt to defend her looks bit off to me but Red Mones isn't a hot target for me now.
Yeah my point of it being the opposite was a gross oversimplification but shh nobody needs to know. ;)
Moot - Agree on both of your points.
Doc - I don't agree that Sapph was purposefully pushing Doc with that comment honestly, I believe it was more likely that Sapph was slightly suspicious of Doc and was worried that they would be accidentally cleared from suspicion by people thinking that he probably couldn't roll wolf twice in a row. What are your thoughts on this explanation?
cozmikrae - Not sure how I feel about this slot yet. Do you believe that cozmik and Wintermoot could be on the same team given how they both voted Sapph, or do you believe it is more likely one or the other?
The explanation about Doc works , but in my perspective , I think Sapph made a last moment attempt to get the TGN wagon as large as possible . TGN was a wolf in last game , and since many understood he was softening , so there was a chance that TGN wagon would have swelled up , unfortunately it didn't happen . Doc trail , as I said was weak and I think it was a potential FoS for TGN . And a thing about Nyght i recall . In her synopsis of Sapph's poem , she said it was Kane as scum in her view . Minish framed Red Mones , but at this point , the poem doesn't interest me
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 16, 2021, 06:11:29 PM
Not much reasoning other than his questionable voting pattern , total disregard for PR softening , and my own interpretation of Sapph's poem . Also the fact that Moot tried to pull Doc into the scum soup , seems strange to me, because I feel Sapph indicated TGN , and he used that possibly to prevent his own lynch and get TGN wagon running . Doc doesn't seem an issue.
Post by: Gerrick on February 16, 2021, 07:57:02 PM
post counts
ExLight: 132
Vroendal: 106
Red Mones: 94
Legacy of Smiles: 83
cozmikrae: 64
Anubhav Ghosh: 63
NyghtOwl: 34
Doc: 34
Gerrick: 27
Wischland: 17
Michi: 17
BraveSirRobin: 15
Wintermoot: 14
Vroendal: 106
Red Mones: 94
Legacy of Smiles: 83
cozmikrae: 64
Anubhav Ghosh: 63
NyghtOwl: 34
Doc: 34
Gerrick: 27
Wischland: 17
Michi: 17
BraveSirRobin: 15
Wintermoot: 14
Town
ExLight
Red Mones
Legacy of Smiles
Anubhav Ghosh
NyghtOwl
Doc
Wintermoot
Null
Vroendal
Wischland
BraveSirRobin
Scum
cozmikrae
Michi
Post by: cozmikrae on February 16, 2021, 08:46:27 PM
Ok so if don't know where to start in making townreads, how about you start by explaining the whys on your scumreads to me. Logically, townspeople should be doing the opposite of what you explain, right?
Townspeople won't do opposite , Scummy people will play town with some unwanted deviations. From Ruguo lynch I have seen this thing , scum plays like town and makes unwanted deviation and that catches our eyes.
Moot: Quite suspicious voting , total disregard for PR softening .
Doc: Sapph said about consecutive wolf possibility , which makes me feel Doc might be a scum. This is a weak lead to me though , but there is no harm in mentioning.
Legacy of Smiles: Obvious distancing attempt from Ruguo on Ogun/Legacy , definitely looks his established scum play . But it was D1 , random pushes and pokes stay on , so I guess this is a weak trail.
Cozmikrae: Anomalous role in Sapph lynch from cozmik , and then raising suspicion on Vro and my alliance , which i look upon as a cover up , as her vote was the deciding factor and my ignorance of softening is deemed genuine by most . Red Mones' attempt to defend her looks bit off to me but Red Mones isn't a hot target for me now.
Yeah my point of it being the opposite was a gross oversimplification but shh nobody needs to know. ;)
Moot - Agree on both of your points.
Doc - I don't agree that Sapph was purposefully pushing Doc with that comment honestly, I believe it was more likely that Sapph was slightly suspicious of Doc and was worried that they would be accidentally cleared from suspicion by people thinking that he probably couldn't roll wolf twice in a row. What are your thoughts on this explanation?
cozmikrae - Not sure how I feel about this slot yet. Do you believe that cozmik and Wintermoot could be on the same team given how they both voted Sapph, or do you believe it is more likely one or the other?
I did not vote for Sapph.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 08:57:09 PM
My mistake sorry, I got it slightly confused.Ok so if don't know where to start in making townreads, how about you start by explaining the whys on your scumreads to me. Logically, townspeople should be doing the opposite of what you explain, right?
Townspeople won't do opposite , Scummy people will play town with some unwanted deviations. From Ruguo lynch I have seen this thing , scum plays like town and makes unwanted deviation and that catches our eyes.
Moot: Quite suspicious voting , total disregard for PR softening .
Doc: Sapph said about consecutive wolf possibility , which makes me feel Doc might be a scum. This is a weak lead to me though , but there is no harm in mentioning.
Legacy of Smiles: Obvious distancing attempt from Ruguo on Ogun/Legacy , definitely looks his established scum play . But it was D1 , random pushes and pokes stay on , so I guess this is a weak trail.
Cozmikrae: Anomalous role in Sapph lynch from cozmik , and then raising suspicion on Vro and my alliance , which i look upon as a cover up , as her vote was the deciding factor and my ignorance of softening is deemed genuine by most . Red Mones' attempt to defend her looks bit off to me but Red Mones isn't a hot target for me now.
Yeah my point of it being the opposite was a gross oversimplification but shh nobody needs to know. ;)
Moot - Agree on both of your points.
Doc - I don't agree that Sapph was purposefully pushing Doc with that comment honestly, I believe it was more likely that Sapph was slightly suspicious of Doc and was worried that they would be accidentally cleared from suspicion by people thinking that he probably couldn't roll wolf twice in a row. What are your thoughts on this explanation?
cozmikrae - Not sure how I feel about this slot yet. Do you believe that cozmik and Wintermoot could be on the same team given how they both voted Sapph, or do you believe it is more likely one or the other?
I did not vote for Sapph.
Post by: Red Mones on February 16, 2021, 09:33:00 PM
Red Mones
NyghtOwl
Legacy of Smiles
BraveSirRobin
Anubhav Ghosh
cozmikrae
ExLight
Wischland
Michi
Doc
Vroendal
Wintermoot
Gerrick
I don't really know tbh. When making this list, almost everyone has some kinda townie vibes, so I honestly can't even say this is even how I'd rank them. Also still kinda hung up on Gerrick, though his defenses have been decently strong. Not liking that Michi is still in his scum list though, cuz I'm not really seeing it.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 16, 2021, 10:16:12 PM
If I were to rank all the current players from most to least townie, it'd probably look like this:
Red Mones
NyghtOwl
Legacy of Smiles
BraveSirRobin
Anubhav Ghosh
cozmikrae
ExLight
Wischland
Michi
Doc
Vroendal
Wintermoot
Gerrick
I don't really know tbh. When making this list, almost everyone has some kinda townie vibes, so I honestly can't even say this is even how I'd rank them. Also still kinda hung up on Gerrick, though his defenses have been decently strong. Not liking that Michi is still in his scum list though, cuz I'm not really seeing it.
I've been hung up on Gerrick for a few days for no really good reason, just a feeling. A small part of me just wants to vote, but I'm gun shy because of how many townies we've killed at this point. Red you mentioned just using PoE to find scum. How would we go about that? Pick the least townie of our reads and go off that?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 10:25:42 PM
I'm not red but PoE is how I find scum usually. It's part of the reason I was working on a town core earlier. If we can narrow down the list of possible suspects by finding townspeople, we will win a lot more easily. It is ten times easier to find an obvious town trying to be obvious compared to looking for scum who are hiding on purpose.If I were to rank all the current players from most to least townie, it'd probably look like this:
Red Mones
NyghtOwl
Legacy of Smiles
BraveSirRobin
Anubhav Ghosh
cozmikrae
ExLight
Wischland
Michi
Doc
Vroendal
Wintermoot
Gerrick
I don't really know tbh. When making this list, almost everyone has some kinda townie vibes, so I honestly can't even say this is even how I'd rank them. Also still kinda hung up on Gerrick, though his defenses have been decently strong. Not liking that Michi is still in his scum list though, cuz I'm not really seeing it.
I've been hung up on Gerrick for a few days for no really good reason, just a feeling. A small part of me just wants to vote, but I'm gun shy because of how many townies we've killed at this point. Red you mentioned just using PoE to find scum. How would we go about that? Pick the least townie of our reads and go off that?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 10:27:13 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 10:28:35 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 16, 2021, 10:35:55 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 16, 2021, 10:37:48 PM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 16, 2021, 10:38:02 PM
I'm not red but PoE is how I find scum usually. It's part of the reason I was working on a town core earlier. If we can narrow down the list of possible suspects by finding townspeople, we will win a lot more easily. It is ten times easier to find an obvious town trying to be obvious compared to looking for scum who are hiding on purpose.If I were to rank all the current players from most to least townie, it'd probably look like this:
Red Mones
NyghtOwl
Legacy of Smiles
BraveSirRobin
Anubhav Ghosh
cozmikrae
ExLight
Wischland
Michi
Doc
Vroendal
Wintermoot
Gerrick
I don't really know tbh. When making this list, almost everyone has some kinda townie vibes, so I honestly can't even say this is even how I'd rank them. Also still kinda hung up on Gerrick, though his defenses have been decently strong. Not liking that Michi is still in his scum list though, cuz I'm not really seeing it.
I've been hung up on Gerrick for a few days for no really good reason, just a feeling. A small part of me just wants to vote, but I'm gun shy because of how many townies we've killed at this point. Red you mentioned just using PoE to find scum. How would we go about that? Pick the least townie of our reads and go off that?
See I kinda feel like we've been doing that, and we've just lynched town with the exception of once.
Post by: Red Mones on February 16, 2021, 10:40:25 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 16, 2021, 10:43:36 PM
See I don't think so. I get the feeling scum has been pushing targets then getting everyone to lynch them under the guise of "well we're gonna keep coming back to them anyway". That's kinda why I've been avoiding the big wagons and voting for my sus targets instead (except for the one day I voted for TGN). They've been a bit too easy for my taste.See I kinda feel like we've been doing that, and we've just lynched town with the exception of once.SnipI'm not red but PoE is how I find scum usually. It's part of the reason I was working on a town core earlier. If we can narrow down the list of possible suspects by finding townspeople, we will win a lot more easily. It is ten times easier to find an obvious town trying to be obvious compared to looking for scum who are hiding on purpose.If I were to rank all the current players from most to least townie, it'd probably look like this:
Red Mones
NyghtOwl
Legacy of Smiles
BraveSirRobin
Anubhav Ghosh
cozmikrae
ExLight
Wischland
Michi
Doc
Vroendal
Wintermoot
Gerrick
I don't really know tbh. When making this list, almost everyone has some kinda townie vibes, so I honestly can't even say this is even how I'd rank them. Also still kinda hung up on Gerrick, though his defenses have been decently strong. Not liking that Michi is still in his scum list though, cuz I'm not really seeing it.
I've been hung up on Gerrick for a few days for no really good reason, just a feeling. A small part of me just wants to vote, but I'm gun shy because of how many townies we've killed at this point. Red you mentioned just using PoE to find scum. How would we go about that? Pick the least townie of our reads and go off that?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 16, 2021, 10:59:45 PM
I feel like we've had, and probably still have, a lot of townspeople who are going to be very easy to blamelessly mislynch.See I don't think so. I get the feeling scum has been pushing targets then getting everyone to lynch them under the guise of "well we're gonna keep coming back to them anyway". That's kinda why I've been avoiding the big wagons and voting for my sus targets instead (except for the one day I voted for TGN). They've been a bit too easy for my taste.See I kinda feel like we've been doing that, and we've just lynched town with the exception of once.SnipI'm not red but PoE is how I find scum usually. It's part of the reason I was working on a town core earlier. If we can narrow down the list of possible suspects by finding townspeople, we will win a lot more easily. It is ten times easier to find an obvious town trying to be obvious compared to looking for scum who are hiding on purpose.If I were to rank all the current players from most to least townie, it'd probably look like this:
Red Mones
NyghtOwl
Legacy of Smiles
BraveSirRobin
Anubhav Ghosh
cozmikrae
ExLight
Wischland
Michi
Doc
Vroendal
Wintermoot
Gerrick
I don't really know tbh. When making this list, almost everyone has some kinda townie vibes, so I honestly can't even say this is even how I'd rank them. Also still kinda hung up on Gerrick, though his defenses have been decently strong. Not liking that Michi is still in his scum list though, cuz I'm not really seeing it.
I've been hung up on Gerrick for a few days for no really good reason, just a feeling. A small part of me just wants to vote, but I'm gun shy because of how many townies we've killed at this point. Red you mentioned just using PoE to find scum. How would we go about that? Pick the least townie of our reads and go off that?
Post by: Red Mones on February 16, 2021, 11:10:36 PM
Yeah, and I'm worried they're setting up Wintermoot to be the next one. I do have Moot near the bottom of my list, but not because I think he's scum, but because the lack of posting has not given me anything to go off of. The fact that Anubhav is setting up a wagon on him is actually quite interesting.I feel like we've had, and probably still have, a lot of townspeople who are going to be very easy to blamelessly mislynch.See I don't think so. I get the feeling scum has been pushing targets then getting everyone to lynch them under the guise of "well we're gonna keep coming back to them anyway". That's kinda why I've been avoiding the big wagons and voting for my sus targets instead (except for the one day I voted for TGN). They've been a bit too easy for my taste.See I kinda feel like we've been doing that, and we've just lynched town with the exception of once.SnipI'm not red but PoE is how I find scum usually. It's part of the reason I was working on a town core earlier. If we can narrow down the list of possible suspects by finding townspeople, we will win a lot more easily. It is ten times easier to find an obvious town trying to be obvious compared to looking for scum who are hiding on purpose.If I were to rank all the current players from most to least townie, it'd probably look like this:
Red Mones
NyghtOwl
Legacy of Smiles
BraveSirRobin
Anubhav Ghosh
cozmikrae
ExLight
Wischland
Michi
Doc
Vroendal
Wintermoot
Gerrick
I don't really know tbh. When making this list, almost everyone has some kinda townie vibes, so I honestly can't even say this is even how I'd rank them. Also still kinda hung up on Gerrick, though his defenses have been decently strong. Not liking that Michi is still in his scum list though, cuz I'm not really seeing it.
I've been hung up on Gerrick for a few days for no really good reason, just a feeling. A small part of me just wants to vote, but I'm gun shy because of how many townies we've killed at this point. Red you mentioned just using PoE to find scum. How would we go about that? Pick the least townie of our reads and go off that?
I may end up just voting Doc today.
Post by: ExLight on February 16, 2021, 11:22:22 PM
shouldn’t the fact Anubhav is setting a wagon on him make him a more interesting lynch?Yeah, and I'm worried they're setting up Wintermoot to be the next one. I do have Moot near the bottom of my list, but not because I think he's scum, but because the lack of posting has not given me anything to go off of. The fact that Anubhav is setting up a wagon on him is actually quite interesting.I feel like we've had, and probably still have, a lot of townspeople who are going to be very easy to blamelessly mislynch.See I don't think so. I get the feeling scum has been pushing targets then getting everyone to lynch them under the guise of "well we're gonna keep coming back to them anyway". That's kinda why I've been avoiding the big wagons and voting for my sus targets instead (except for the one day I voted for TGN). They've been a bit too easy for my taste.See I kinda feel like we've been doing that, and we've just lynched town with the exception of once.SnipI'm not red but PoE is how I find scum usually. It's part of the reason I was working on a town core earlier. If we can narrow down the list of possible suspects by finding townspeople, we will win a lot more easily. It is ten times easier to find an obvious town trying to be obvious compared to looking for scum who are hiding on purpose.If I were to rank all the current players from most to least townie, it'd probably look like this:
Red Mones
NyghtOwl
Legacy of Smiles
BraveSirRobin
Anubhav Ghosh
cozmikrae
ExLight
Wischland
Michi
Doc
Vroendal
Wintermoot
Gerrick
I don't really know tbh. When making this list, almost everyone has some kinda townie vibes, so I honestly can't even say this is even how I'd rank them. Also still kinda hung up on Gerrick, though his defenses have been decently strong. Not liking that Michi is still in his scum list though, cuz I'm not really seeing it.
I've been hung up on Gerrick for a few days for no really good reason, just a feeling. A small part of me just wants to vote, but I'm gun shy because of how many townies we've killed at this point. Red you mentioned just using PoE to find scum. How would we go about that? Pick the least townie of our reads and go off that?
I may end up just voting Doc today.
Wintermoot has some interactions with Vro too, and I feel like they can’t be scumbuds together.
Doc I’m on the fence on whether or not to scumlean or null him.
What are everyone’s opinion on BSR again? He was a major point of discussion before and I’m not sure if we reached any conclusion regarding him.
Post by: Red Mones on February 16, 2021, 11:24:38 PM
I'm not opposed to a Kane or a Moot lynch (see my reasoning from earlier and general sus-edness of Moot, Minish and Kane), but because one might come with some good info last minute, I'll vote for the smaller wagon (Moot) at the present time because I have no idea when EOD is2/3 of those flipped town.
Vote: Wintermoot
Wintermoot - 3 (Anubhav Ghosh, BraveSirRobin, NyghtOwl)@BraveSirRobin has dropped to the very bottom of my list now. Anything to say? You're now my vote for today.
Post by: Red Mones on February 16, 2021, 11:25:17 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 16, 2021, 11:26:09 PM
Post by: cozmikrae on February 17, 2021, 12:05:09 AM
Gerrick ISO
Votes for Michi Day 1 as a joke.
Discusses the fact that discussion is good for town (Proceeds to post only 28x over an 80page and counting game)
Claims game is on back burner.
Scum reads Michi (after the joke vote!), Sapph and BSR.
Discusses Vro and Michi link. Votes Vro for vote flipflop. Still scumreading Michi. Also lightly mentions Ruguo as scummy (potential town points for that).
Red scumreads Gerrick, Gerrick offers to vote Ruguo, admits not a very effective ploy.
More discussion with Red, votes for Ruguo.
Susses Minish based on Mel's analysis, susses Red as potentially bussing Ruguo, votes BSR.
Analyzes Sapph's poem as a Red Mones check.
Susses Doc based on mention of "Armored Titan," votes Doc.
Retracts opinion, but leaves vote until another target is found. Susses Minish and I.
Unvotes Doc, apologizes.
Votes TGN, asks about Exlight.
Defends TGN...
Votes me.
Defends against Ruguo link, thought voting for Ruguo would be sus.
Posts new reads list.
Discusses the fact that discussion is good for town (Proceeds to post only 28x over an 80page and counting game)
Claims game is on back burner.
Scum reads Michi (after the joke vote!), Sapph and BSR.
Discusses Vro and Michi link. Votes Vro for vote flipflop. Still scumreading Michi. Also lightly mentions Ruguo as scummy (potential town points for that).
Red scumreads Gerrick, Gerrick offers to vote Ruguo, admits not a very effective ploy.
More discussion with Red, votes for Ruguo.
Susses Minish based on Mel's analysis, susses Red as potentially bussing Ruguo, votes BSR.
Analyzes Sapph's poem as a Red Mones check.
Susses Doc based on mention of "Armored Titan," votes Doc.
Retracts opinion, but leaves vote until another target is found. Susses Minish and I.
Unvotes Doc, apologizes.
Votes TGN, asks about Exlight.
Defends TGN...
Votes me.
Defends against Ruguo link, thought voting for Ruguo would be sus.
Posts new reads list.
I still can't quite put my finger on it, but Gerrick is definitely scum lean for me.
ExLight I'm still extremely uncomfortable with. Aggressively accuses me of not understanding the worth of a pinky swear, (I mean, obv...?) that's the only defense I've seen/noticed. Seems like a great way to defend a meta that will one day get flipped and used as a wolf defense. Great "get out of scum reads free" card. Claimed that HD and Minish would back this up, both recognized and refused to defend it.
Doc, Michi, Wintermoot, and Wischland are all null for me. Doc feels town, but also feels skilled. Skilled enough to completely fool me, so I hesitate to call it either way.
Vro, I'm still flip flopping on. (ha!) Slightly town lean right now though.
BSR, I have next to no info on, but town leaning.
Legacy and Anubhav I'm town leaning as well
Red Mones is probably top town for me. As well as Nyght.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 17, 2021, 12:13:54 AM
Well, shit. Check out this posts from BSR:I'm not opposed to a Kane or a Moot lynch (see my reasoning from earlier and general sus-edness of Moot, Minish and Kane), but because one might come with some good info last minute, I'll vote for the smaller wagon (Moot) at the present time because I have no idea when EOD is2/3 of those flipped town.
Vote: WintermootWintermoot - 3 (Anubhav Ghosh, BraveSirRobin, NyghtOwl)@BraveSirRobin has dropped to the very bottom of my list now. Anything to say? You're now my vote for today.
This is good. This is how we caught Ruguo out too.
Post by: ExLight on February 17, 2021, 12:21:51 AM
It’s a green check for me in every game I play as town, and if I ever broke it it would completely lose its value, which is something I wouldn’t want since it’s not only something I’m proud of but something that helps me win games as town because it excludes me from PoE improving my chances. Considering an average person has a 3:1 ratio of games as town (opposed to mafia/indept) it’s not really too hard to understand why its integrity is important for me.
I’ve played with two players that had a full No Lying Policy which they applied to literally every game; there was never reason do doubt their playstyle and the things they said. Similarly I don’t think there is a reason doubt something like occasional pinkie promises that I usually use when people in games I’m either overactive or not engaged to prevent discussion around me that I know will be harmful for Town. You don’t know my meta so this is the easiest and better route for everyone.
I don’t know why HumanDawn and Minish didn’t take it seriously as town, and I’ll legit be an upset brat about that after the game ends. I have over a dozen mafia games and even around half a hundred ultra casual popcorn games where I took it deadass seriously.
I’m literally acting as an Innocent Child role here, and even discussing lynch me is surreal.
Post by: ExLight on February 17, 2021, 12:23:59 AM
idk where I was going with that “people” umu
Post by: Red Mones on February 17, 2021, 12:37:49 AM
Well here's some more voting history then:Well, shit. Check out this posts from BSR:I'm not opposed to a Kane or a Moot lynch (see my reasoning from earlier and general sus-edness of Moot, Minish and Kane), but because one might come with some good info last minute, I'll vote for the smaller wagon (Moot) at the present time because I have no idea when EOD is2/3 of those flipped town.
Vote: WintermootWintermoot - 3 (Anubhav Ghosh, BraveSirRobin, NyghtOwl)@BraveSirRobin has dropped to the very bottom of my list now. Anything to say? You're now my vote for today.
This is good. This is how we caught Ruguo out too.
D1: No vote from BSR
D2: Didn't vote for the Ruguo wagon
D3: Voted for a townie wagon (TGN over Sapph, claimed they knew Sapph was a PR based on his hints. This is a pretty easy situation for scum. Get some town cred for not voting Sapph, but still mislynch a townie no matter who dies)
D4: Votes for TGN again, a townie
This is all circumstantial though, and it assumes Moot is town, but if we assume BSR is scum, then these actions make perfect sense.
Post by: BraveSirRobin on February 17, 2021, 12:54:34 AM
Also, I'd hope you'd realize that I'd be a smart enough wolf to not kill those that I was "suspicious" of in the game. Like that's textbook wolf suicide stuff, and completely irrational.
And I definitely don't think anyone should be comfortable with assumptions about anything, given that people we thought were associating seem to have very little association now. But I digress. If it would help the town for me to die, by all means kill me, but it's clearly an illogical and irrational move at the present time.
Post by: Red Mones on February 17, 2021, 01:38:58 AM
Post by: Gerrick on February 17, 2021, 02:34:47 AM
Town Lean
-Legacy of Smiles: Has been giving their thoughts on people and doing a lot of poking people to get their thoughts on others, which is very good for town. Thoughts on cozmikrae?
-Red Mones: Helped lead the Ruguo wagon D2, and I personally think was cleared by Sapph’s poem. Don’t like his very sharp drop in posts since D2, but it’s understandable with how active the game is. Thoughts on Vro and Michi?
-ExLight: Really don’t like his pinkie promise thing, but other than that, he’s been the most active person and has been scum-hunting and poking people, which is good for town.
-Doc: Has led the wagons on both TGN and Kane, who both flipped town, but he’s been actively scum-hunting and helpful. Hasn’t been throwing shit aggressively at people or lying really low like I’d expect from scum Doc, which reads town to me. Thoughts on Vro and Michi?
-NyghtOwl: Seems new, has been trying to get a hang of the game, and has been giving his thoughts on players and asking how others are thinking. Thoughts on Wintermoot, BSR, and Vro?
-Vroendal: Really don't like his D1 unvote, but besides that, he's been scum-hunting and poking people, which I like. Thoughts on Michi and BSR?
-Wischland: Hasn’t been very active, but has been laying out her thoughts on several different players throughout the game and reads pretty genuine to me. Thoughts on BSR and cozmik?
Null
-Anubhav Ghosh: Has been kinda all over the place in his suspicions of people and hasn’t been stating who his town-reads are, which is scummy to me, but at least he’s been very actively scum-hunting. He’s new, so if he is scum, he’s pretty good at it. Almost at town-lean.
-BraveSirRobin: Don’t like his lurkiness in the first few days, but his posts have improved in quality recently and generally read town to me. Was going to put him in town lean until his D5 clearing of cozmikrae based on WIFOM, especially since I’m suspicious of her. Note that three of his four suspects (Minish, Kane, TGN, and Wintermoot) have all died and flipped town. Thoughts on Vro and Wintermoot?
-Wintermoot: I agree with him about Sapphiron's D3 softing being so soft it could be wolfy (partly why I didn't switch to defend Sapph). His comments on Doc's TGN-Ruguo/TGN-Vro connection theories, however, aren't really straight as he defends TGN D2 and D3 (saying he's just immature and Ruguo being wolf clears him as town per Doc's theory) then votes for him D4, although his reasoning on D4 could sorta makes sense in that he wanted to expose a possible distancing attempt by Doc from TGN and didn't want to start a vanity wagon against Doc right before EoD when TGN's and Kane's wagons were tied (he did start such a vanity wagon on D5, though, but I suppose he didn't need to vote Kane (the only other larger wagon) since his wagon was much smaller than Kane's and Kane didn't look particularly scummy to me). Thoughts on Doc and Vro?
Scum Lean
-Michi: Said he hates meta-votes D1 then defends TGN D2 based on meta, votes for completely inactive (Alexander). Seems like a good amount of his posts have been talking about werewolf in general without giving his thoughts on players or scum-hunting – only player he’s accused is BSR. Has only voted on Days 2 (against Alexander then Ruguo) and 4 (against BSR). Thoughts on BSR?
-cozmikrae: Placed Ruguo in a “less than sus” group on her earlyish D2 reads-list with other people she town-read, but later switched when the tide began to turn. Other suspicious actions I laid out on D4 (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157256#msg157256). Said she was “completely convinced” TGN was town on D5 (the day after he was lynched) and yet didn’t make a case in his defense but rather for lynching Kane on D4. Maybe I’m tunneling, but she’s still my top scum-read.
Vote: cozmikrae
Post by: Doc on February 17, 2021, 02:37:39 AM
Yeah, just checked, Doc's been on every single town wagon and was also not on Ruguo's wagon, which is incredibly suspicious. One could argue scum Doc wouldn't be so obvious, though.We've lynched one scum so far, and that was basically a tossup that came out of nowhere. The fact I wasn't on board that wagon is hardly evidence that I'm scum, and frankly I question whether anyone being on that wagon is evidence of being not scum, since there were nine people on board that wagon, with its closest competition being a 5-wagon. That's got bus play written all over it, particularly since that wagon caught 45% of the votes available for the day.
As for 'every single town wagon', that's a bit of both a hard sell and an exaggeration of my actual position, isn't it? Sure, my D1 vote was on Hapi, who subsequently flipped town. Good call there, we should obviously also sus Nyght, Cozmik, and poor dead flipped-townie Mel since they were also partially responsible for a D1 mislynch. Should we sus Michi, too, as the beneficiary of our largesse in mislynching, or is he safe from suspicion?
Now my D2 vote, which was on Vro, who's still with us and consequently hasn't flipped one way or another. Bit difficult to assess that as 'a town wagon', wouldn't you say, even if we both townread or townlead Vro at this point?
Onto D3, where my vote was on TGN. Who wasn't lynched that day, but rather Sapph, the Seer. I suppose I missed hopping aboard that town wagon.
Fair call on D4 and D5, however. I was in fact on both those wagons, and neither of those theories bore any fruit to speak of.
So; fair play, I was on 3 of the 4 bad wagons, and wasn't aboard the one good wagon we've had. I could probably find someone with a worse voting record though. And I'd be willing to gamble both of us would be town, because while there is absolutely the WIFOM potential of scum deliberately playing TWTBAW, most of the time scum plays much more cautiously than that just out of paranoia (to, I suppose, the extent of Kane perpetually playing with a mind to his own defense even as town), and the lone person I can think of as an exception to that rule is presently hosting this game.
At any rate I'm still picking voting records apart, so I'm not likely to make another post until I'm done, but I thought I should come in and defend my honor while the iron was hot.
-Doc: Has led the wagons on both TGN and Kane, who both flipped town, but he’s been actively scum-hunting and helpful. Hasn’t been throwing shit aggressively at people or lying really low like I’d expect from scum Doc, which reads town to me. Thoughts on Vro and Michi?Leaning town on both for now. Will update accordingly as part of my vote analysis post.
Post by: Doc on February 17, 2021, 02:40:59 AM
I'm gonnaOh, yeah, forgot to make this part of my earlier post; were you ever gonna explain this like you said you would? All you said was
Vote: Gerrick
I don't have time to explain right now, I'll do so next day phase.
Also still kinda hung up on Gerrick, though his defenses have been decently strong. Not liking that Michi is still in his scum list though, cuz I'm not really seeing it.Doesn't seem to constitute much of an explanation, but if it counts for you, it counts, I guess.
Post by: Michi on February 17, 2021, 06:38:08 AM
-Michi: Said he hates meta-votes D1 then defends TGN D2 based on meta, votes for completely inactive (Alexander). Seems like a good amount of his posts have been talking about werewolf in general without giving his thoughts on players or scum-hunting – only player he’s accused is BSR. Has only voted on Days 2 (against Alexander then Ruguo) and 4 (against BSR). Thoughts on BSR?
Keep in mind that I also have mentioned that I've been keeping busy on top of having a spotty connection due to it being consistently knocked out because of the weather. I've been trying to get more active with the game and keep up with what's going on, but it's difficult when I have random and little windows of opportunity to post before the connection decides to die again. The joys of DSL during winter, amirite?
Here's the difference with how I look at Meta: Experience versus non. I'm willing to throw the meta argument at TGN because he's new to the game still since it's only his second, and as I stated I as a host would have re-shuffled him if he rolled scum the second time in a row so that he could get experience on the other side, especially since he was such an easy target in the last game and proved to be a scum in that game. So it'd make sense to me to let him be something else so he could try things out and get more of the benefit of the doubt when he makes himself an easy mark. By game 3, I'd be perfectly okay with him having similar luck as Doc used to have after his first couple of games and letting him roll wolf consecutively if RNG made it happen since he'd at least have the experience of both sides to take with him to make him a better player in future games.
To me, that's different than saying I dislike when people try to use my past gameplay to create a "sustainable" argument for a D1 lynch, simply because for one, meta in that department can be completely proven wrong since people including myself will change up how they approach things in games in an attempt to keep people guessing...and for second, as was proven with the winning wagon in that round (as well as our usual D1 strategy), we're much more likely to vote off a townie than a scum D1.
As for the Alexander thing, I've made it no secret that I've had a nightmare of a time keeping up with this game in general, and I was willing to activity push Alexander to try to get him to talk since he hasn't been on since signups. But when I popped on later and saw compelling arguments for Ruguo (and still nothing from Alexander), I switched.
But yeah, I've been having much difficulties keeping up for multitudes of reasons, and even now I'm responding to this since it's on the last page...I haven't even had the chance to go back and look at things since the last phase started. Heck, if it wasn't for Lau's update in the Werewolf channel on Discord on Minish and for your mention of it on your reads list, I wouldn't have known even that Minish and Kane were the kills from the last phase (although I'm not sure which was which).
As for BSR, I'd have to go back to see if he said anything new since my vote for him, but for the moment my thoughts are the same as when I made that vote: His concern for Sapph just felt completely fabricated to the point that he cried out saying he made this big warning for people about how Sapph will soft-claim when he feels people gang up on him with wolf accusations...and I literally saw no mention of that anywhere in his posts before he said that. So that never sat well with me and felt like something a scum might try to pull to get townies to sympathize.
But, I'll have to try to get through the slog of pages that I missed, hoping my connection holds up so that I can pop on.
Since I do know that I'll get mod-killed if I don't vote today though, I'll throw up my BSR vote again since I'm still iffy about him from the last time I mentioned him...but I'll also mention that it's subject to change assuming I can get through and get caught up before the phase ends. <_<
Vote: BraveSirRobin
(hopefully this goes through this time. <_<)
Post by: Laurentus on February 17, 2021, 08:29:35 AM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 17, 2021, 08:32:19 AM
Yeah, and I'm worried they're setting up Wintermoot to be the next one. I do have Moot near the bottom of my list, but not because I think he's scum, but because the lack of posting has not given me anything to go off of. The fact that Anubhav is setting up a wagon on him is actually quite interesting.I feel like we've had, and probably still have, a lot of townspeople who are going to be very easy to blamelessly mislynch.See I don't think so. I get the feeling scum has been pushing targets then getting everyone to lynch them under the guise of "well we're gonna keep coming back to them anyway". That's kinda why I've been avoiding the big wagons and voting for my sus targets instead (except for the one day I voted for TGN). They've been a bit too easy for my taste.See I kinda feel like we've been doing that, and we've just lynched town with the exception of once.SnipI'm not red but PoE is how I find scum usually. It's part of the reason I was working on a town core earlier. If we can narrow down the list of possible suspects by finding townspeople, we will win a lot more easily. It is ten times easier to find an obvious town trying to be obvious compared to looking for scum who are hiding on purpose.If I were to rank all the current players from most to least townie, it'd probably look like this:
Red Mones
NyghtOwl
Legacy of Smiles
BraveSirRobin
Anubhav Ghosh
cozmikrae
ExLight
Wischland
Michi
Doc
Vroendal
Wintermoot
Gerrick
I don't really know tbh. When making this list, almost everyone has some kinda townie vibes, so I honestly can't even say this is even how I'd rank them. Also still kinda hung up on Gerrick, though his defenses have been decently strong. Not liking that Michi is still in his scum list though, cuz I'm not really seeing it.
I've been hung up on Gerrick for a few days for no really good reason, just a feeling. A small part of me just wants to vote, but I'm gun shy because of how many townies we've killed at this point. Red you mentioned just using PoE to find scum. How would we go about that? Pick the least townie of our reads and go off that?
I may end up just voting Doc today.
I went for Moot for immature looking votes which aren't meant to be cast by such experienced player . Maybe the softening was too soft that it seemed scum , but it was NOT a risk worth taking as a townie i would say , unless its LyLo situation. Other than that,I had offline school and I thought that today night was gonna fall , hence the early vote and bringing on a wagon . Either way , even if there would have been no Moot wagon , I would have had stayed independent and gone for Moot vote unless any convincing post with one single target came up . I have no problem in starting a wagon( maybe it will bear fruit) , and the fact that Moot has been a discussion topic everyday and has not been a topic while voting makes me feel that scums are diluting suspicion that has accumulated on him , so the early wagon might work as a reminder , "OK, so its time to bring in Moot now on the voting table from the discussion table. "
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 17, 2021, 08:33:27 AM
I am going to extend this phase by 24 hours, as a test run, to give all involved parties extra time for analysis.
And I thought this was the first phase as the chat wasn't locked . Went in hard to place a vote🤣.
Post by: Laurentus on February 17, 2021, 08:37:13 AM
What that also means, in essence, is that you should still treat the original deadline as the EoD deadline, just with a bit more grace added.
Disregard this. I am also being made aware that quite a few players are negatively affected with some crazy weather at present, and a bunch of things contributing to people's general lack of activity. Therefore, a normal 24-hour phase extenstion with no strings attached is being implemented.
Post by: Doc on February 17, 2021, 09:03:20 AM
I am going to extend this phase by 24 hours, as a test run, to give all involved parties extra time for analysis.Wait...so there's ~48 hours left in this phase, right, not just ~24?
Post by: Laurentus on February 17, 2021, 09:03:49 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 17, 2021, 09:10:55 AM
that’s kinda unusual
I’m the one that asked about the possibility of an extension, but I did not expect a democratic vote not occurring nor this five posts thing
exceeding these 5 posts during the last extra in-game 24h will get you modkilled so please everyone be careful to not post too much in the last 24h, even if you’re trying to cause something like a CFD or defend yourself and instead use that time to make posts that are meaningful to the game like a readslist or brainstorms/ISOs instead of brainstorming remarks (you might also want to write them in something like Word first so you don’t risk losing your draft since it doesn’t seem like a feature here)
I have never seen anything like this before and I’m not really sure what to expect or how to approach this, all I can think of is just please be careful since this can kill active and distracted players.
This seems kinda experimental so hopefully it won’t be a thing in the next phases unless everyone agrees with it. I’ll
probably use this time to try making the recaps I was making before.
The optional play here seems for everyone to already make the wagons and defend themselves like the phases are still 48h, since we’re likely to have more different quick paced interactions and maybe sway votes if REALLY necessary in the last 24h.
If everyone is Town reading Wintermoot why is noone discussing Vro since Moot almost guaranteed a Vro lynch and Vro’s read on Moot have been conflicting umu
Post by: ExLight on February 17, 2021, 09:12:48 AM
YEET
Post by: ExLight on February 17, 2021, 09:31:41 AM
Apparently Doctors/Defenders can choose to protect themselves during Night Phases. This means they can guarantee they’ll never get nightkilled if they do so.
This is the optimal play for these roles, and if you’re one that sucessfully protected yourself please be hyper aggressive against people trying to push your lynch since it’s the only way scum can get rid of you.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 17, 2021, 10:27:40 AM
Man, there goes my evening. Updated reads list based on ISOs, laid out generally from most townie to most scummy. Put questions at the end of most players' bits to ask what they think about certain players who they were sussing earlier in the game -- those who they this day phase already talked about I did not include.
Town Lean
-Legacy of Smiles: Has been giving their thoughts on people and doing a lot of poking people to get their thoughts on others, which is very good for town. Thoughts on cozmikrae?
-Red Mones: Helped lead the Ruguo wagon D2, and I personally think was cleared by Sapph’s poem. Don’t like his very sharp drop in posts since D2, but it’s understandable with how active the game is. Thoughts on Vro and Michi?
-ExLight: Really don’t like his pinkie promise thing, but other than that, he’s been the most active person and has been scum-hunting and poking people, which is good for town.
-Doc: Has led the wagons on both TGN and Kane, who both flipped town, but he’s been actively scum-hunting and helpful. Hasn’t been throwing shit aggressively at people or lying really low like I’d expect from scum Doc, which reads town to me. Thoughts on Vro and Michi?
-NyghtOwl: Seems new, has been trying to get a hang of the game, and has been giving his thoughts on players and asking how others are thinking. Thoughts on Wintermoot, BSR, and Vro?
-Vroendal: Really don't like his D1 unvote, but besides that, he's been scum-hunting and poking people, which I like. Thoughts on Michi and BSR?
-Wischland: Hasn’t been very active, but has been laying out her thoughts on several different players throughout the game and reads pretty genuine to me. Thoughts on BSR and cozmik?
Null
-Anubhav Ghosh: Has been kinda all over the place in his suspicions of people and hasn’t been stating who his town-reads are, which is scummy to me, but at least he’s been very actively scum-hunting. He’s new, so if he is scum, he’s pretty good at it. Almost at town-lean.
-BraveSirRobin: Don’t like his lurkiness in the first few days, but his posts have improved in quality recently and generally read town to me. Was going to put him in town lean until his D5 clearing of cozmikrae based on WIFOM, especially since I’m suspicious of her. Note that three of his four suspects (Minish, Kane, TGN, and Wintermoot) have all died and flipped town. Thoughts on Vro and Wintermoot?
-Wintermoot: I agree with him about Sapphiron's D3 softing being so soft it could be wolfy (partly why I didn't switch to defend Sapph). His comments on Doc's TGN-Ruguo/TGN-Vro connection theories, however, aren't really straight as he defends TGN D2 and D3 (saying he's just immature and Ruguo being wolf clears him as town per Doc's theory) then votes for him D4, although his reasoning on D4 could sorta makes sense in that he wanted to expose a possible distancing attempt by Doc from TGN and didn't want to start a vanity wagon against Doc right before EoD when TGN's and Kane's wagons were tied (he did start such a vanity wagon on D5, though, but I suppose he didn't need to vote Kane (the only other larger wagon) since his wagon was much smaller than Kane's and Kane didn't look particularly scummy to me). Thoughts on Doc and Vro?
Scum Lean
-Michi: Said he hates meta-votes D1 then defends TGN D2 based on meta, votes for completely inactive (Alexander). Seems like a good amount of his posts have been talking about werewolf in general without giving his thoughts on players or scum-hunting – only player he’s accused is BSR. Has only voted on Days 2 (against Alexander then Ruguo) and 4 (against BSR). Thoughts on BSR?
-cozmikrae: Placed Ruguo in a “less than sus” group on her earlyish D2 reads-list with other people she town-read, but later switched when the tide began to turn. Other suspicious actions I laid out on D4 (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157256#msg157256). Said she was “completely convinced” TGN was town on D5 (the day after he was lynched) and yet didn’t make a case in his defense but rather for lynching Kane on D4. Maybe I’m tunneling, but she’s still my top scum-read.
Vote: cozmikrae
About townreading I would say I need more experience . Reading scum is much more statistical , based on pattern of play and slip-of-the-tongue sort of stuff . As of townreading , I feel its abstract . However since it seems townreading is needed as well , I guess I will do it in next day phase , probably if I get any indication .
Post by: Wintermoot on February 17, 2021, 06:31:55 PM
As far as Werewolf goes, I think that's a fairly strong case. Hopefully I can make at least another post or two before the end of the extended phase, so I'm not saying it's a final vote.
I think the BSR post where he casted suspicion on two people who are proven town now is interesting, but I would like to hear more (and if I missed more in his case than I'd like to see it and apologize).
I don't necessarily find Michi suspicious or not suspicious, but I can confirm that he's had issues with low-quality internet that's being aggravated by weather, so his inactivity at the moment in itself isn't suspicious to me.
I’m not going to be here listening people sussing me when I pinkie promised being town. I don’t think yall realize how much I value that. umuDoesn't it defeat the purpose of the game if you have a way to make it obvious and certain to everyone that you're town? If everyone did that...well, we'd have no game. :P
Moot: Quite suspicious voting , total disregard for PR softening .I've already explained my vote on Sapphiron, and continue to be amazed that "I'm worth more to town dead than alive" should be taken to mean so much from someone that was in danger of being killed off. It could just as easily have been said from a wolf trying to save their ass...Ex and his pinkie promises aside, there's no guarantee that someone is being honest when they say something like that, especially when they have a motive to say anything to keep from being killed.
Also the fact that Moot tried to pull Doc into the scum soup , seems strange to me, because I feel Sapph indicated TGN , and he used that possibly to prevent his own lynch and get TGN wagon running . Doc doesn't seem an issue.
Doc: Sapph said about consecutive wolf possibility , which makes me feel Doc might be a scum. This is a weak lead to me though , but there is no harm in mentioning.So is that that he might be scum or that he doesn't seem an issue? Funny that you seem to change your mind on Doc when you decide that being suspicious of him is a reason for suspicion. I have repeatedly posted my reasoning (which didn't even include the fact that he was on every town wagon and not on the 1 wolf wagon, which someone only realized today), and there was more to it than simply what Sapph said.
Maybe the softening was too soft that it seemed scum , but it was NOT a risk worth taking as a townie i would sayWhen was it ever going to be worth tasking a risk? It's not like we were ever going to know for sure...at the end of the day, no matter when the vote came up, you were either going to believe that Sapph was hinting at being a power role or throwing out a generic defense to save his ass. I feel like what you're saying is an easy thing to say in hindsight when we know the result, not so much at the moment that it's happening.
Quote
, and the fact that Moot has been a discussion topic everyday and has not been a topic while voting makes me feel that scums are diluting suspicion that has accumulated on him , so the early wagon might work as a reminder , "OK, so its time to bring in Moot now on the voting table from the discussion table. "Isn't this the reasoning that was used with TGN this game, or Vro early on last game?
-Wintermoot: I agree with him about Sapphiron's D3 softing being so soft it could be wolfy (partly why I didn't switch to defend Sapph). His comments on Doc's TGN-Ruguo/TGN-Vro connection theories, however, aren't really straight as he defends TGN D2 and D3 (saying he's just immature and Ruguo being wolf clears him as town per Doc's theory) then votes for him D4, although his reasoning on D4 could sorta makes sense in that he wanted to expose a possible distancing attempt by Doc from TGN and didn't want to start a vanity wagon against Doc right before EoD when TGN's and Kane's wagons were tied (he did start such a vanity wagon on D5, though, but I suppose he didn't need to vote Kane (the only other larger wagon) since his wagon was much smaller than Kane's and Kane didn't look particularly scummy to me).During the last few days I've only been able to contribute late in the phase, and given the number of people to consider and being so late to reply, I thought it would be wise to vote on one of the existing wagons because it was too late to make a difference otherwise...first Sapph vs TGN, then TGN vs Kane, and if we want to extend it to yesterday Kane vs myself. In the first two cases I think I even said if I had to choose between the two of them when voting. I know I'm town (talk about generic defenses, lol), and I didn't suspect Kane at all (and now we know he was town), so I had no choice but to vote for someone else and I returned to my previous philosophy of voting for the person I feel is most suspicious regardless.
But the fact of the matter, everyone that's been wagoned toward the end of the last three days has been proven to be town (except for me, of course), and now I feel my logic in voting on existing wagons over people I feel to be more suspicious was incorrect.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 18, 2021, 12:26:16 AM
Man, there goes my evening. Updated reads list based on ISOs, laid out generally from most townie to most scummy. Put questions at the end of most players' bits to ask what they think about certain players who they were sussing earlier in the game -- those who they this day phase already talked about I did not include.
Town Lean
-Legacy of Smiles: Has been giving their thoughts on people and doing a lot of poking people to get their thoughts on others, which is very good for town. Thoughts on cozmikrae?
-Red Mones: Helped lead the Ruguo wagon D2, and I personally think was cleared by Sapph’s poem. Don’t like his very sharp drop in posts since D2, but it’s understandable with how active the game is. Thoughts on Vro and Michi?
-ExLight: Really don’t like his pinkie promise thing, but other than that, he’s been the most active person and has been scum-hunting and poking people, which is good for town.
-Doc: Has led the wagons on both TGN and Kane, who both flipped town, but he’s been actively scum-hunting and helpful. Hasn’t been throwing shit aggressively at people or lying really low like I’d expect from scum Doc, which reads town to me. Thoughts on Vro and Michi?
-NyghtOwl: Seems new, has been trying to get a hang of the game, and has been giving his thoughts on players and asking how others are thinking. Thoughts on Wintermoot, BSR, and Vro?
-Vroendal: Really don't like his D1 unvote, but besides that, he's been scum-hunting and poking people, which I like. Thoughts on Michi and BSR?
-Wischland: Hasn’t been very active, but has been laying out her thoughts on several different players throughout the game and reads pretty genuine to me. Thoughts on BSR and cozmik?
Null
-Anubhav Ghosh: Has been kinda all over the place in his suspicions of people and hasn’t been stating who his town-reads are, which is scummy to me, but at least he’s been very actively scum-hunting. He’s new, so if he is scum, he’s pretty good at it. Almost at town-lean.
-BraveSirRobin: Don’t like his lurkiness in the first few days, but his posts have improved in quality recently and generally read town to me. Was going to put him in town lean until his D5 clearing of cozmikrae based on WIFOM, especially since I’m suspicious of her. Note that three of his four suspects (Minish, Kane, TGN, and Wintermoot) have all died and flipped town. Thoughts on Vro and Wintermoot?
-Wintermoot: I agree with him about Sapphiron's D3 softing being so soft it could be wolfy (partly why I didn't switch to defend Sapph). His comments on Doc's TGN-Ruguo/TGN-Vro connection theories, however, aren't really straight as he defends TGN D2 and D3 (saying he's just immature and Ruguo being wolf clears him as town per Doc's theory) then votes for him D4, although his reasoning on D4 could sorta makes sense in that he wanted to expose a possible distancing attempt by Doc from TGN and didn't want to start a vanity wagon against Doc right before EoD when TGN's and Kane's wagons were tied (he did start such a vanity wagon on D5, though, but I suppose he didn't need to vote Kane (the only other larger wagon) since his wagon was much smaller than Kane's and Kane didn't look particularly scummy to me). Thoughts on Doc and Vro?
Scum Lean
-Michi: Said he hates meta-votes D1 then defends TGN D2 based on meta, votes for completely inactive (Alexander). Seems like a good amount of his posts have been talking about werewolf in general without giving his thoughts on players or scum-hunting – only player he’s accused is BSR. Has only voted on Days 2 (against Alexander then Ruguo) and 4 (against BSR). Thoughts on BSR?
-cozmikrae: Placed Ruguo in a “less than sus” group on her earlyish D2 reads-list with other people she town-read, but later switched when the tide began to turn. Other suspicious actions I laid out on D4 (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157256#msg157256). Said she was “completely convinced” TGN was town on D5 (the day after he was lynched) and yet didn’t make a case in his defense but rather for lynching Kane on D4. Maybe I’m tunneling, but she’s still my top scum-read.
Vote: cozmikrae
Sorry for the late response, I should be free now. Did a quick ISO on cozmik because I wasn't confident on my read on their slot any more and this is where I got to:
Overall, I like her D1. Not afraid to be confrontational and definitely drawing attention to herself (this seems purposeful?). Biggest issue is the initial push on Red as well as arguments with Mel / Hapi (and voting Hapi). I think she has w/w potential with Michi for not really interacting with / mentioning him despite being a major wagon that day. Still getting towny vibes here though.
Her reads list is the first place I have major issues, particularly the "might be sus" category really only containing wanting to lynch D1 (which is a good play) as the only reason those people are there, feels like a bit of a lazy way to separate people and make the list look good without saying much. There are a couple of reads that stand out to me as being different to the others, those being Doc (who she seems to take a more apologetic tone with - screams distancing here). Reads on Ruguo and Sapphiron stand out because don't seem to match the explanations given, not sure what to think of this in terms of alignment but it suggests a lack of time or confidence when making the list.
D2 voting suggests that she is never w/w with Vroendel.
Vote for Ruguo fairly early is a good look.
Don't think she would have killed Melehan N2 unless pushed by team. If she flips red, Mel was probably scumreading at least one other wolf.
Progression on TGN between D2 and D3 doesn't feel natural and I don't like it, especially after TGN flipped town. Note the sus on Doc but unwillingness to vote.
"So I was feeling like Vro's quick decision to unvote and leave it to a coinflip was suspicious." - quote taken from the Day cozmik's unvote is responsible for killing Sapphiron.
I actually agree a lot with her take on the BSR situation on D3 and I think pointing it out is.
Read on TGN is so inconsistent that I actually believe it's towny. Worried that, in my eyes, pretty much everyone cozmik has sussed with the possible exception of Vro (who I TR) and obviously Ruguo are almost certainly all town. Actually think the sus on ExLight is towny because while it's a bad sus, it shows a lot of self confidence and willingness to confront active players.
For reasons previously stated, the D3 EoD unvote was awful and very little explanation was given until after Sapphiron flipped. If she flips red, she clearly has a partner who realised the Sapphiron was softing (Doc or Wintermoot would be top picks to me).
Probably not w/w with Gerrick after today either.
HD kill and resulting WIFOM may or may not be a good look depending on who the rest of the scum are. Would review this kill after we red flip somebody else if cozmik is alive and we have no good read on her. Don't agree with BSR clearing her on this, don't think he would do it if they were w/w either.
So to cap it off with an overall read: I think she's done a lot of things I see as wolfy, I think the unvote that caused the Sapphiron lynch in particular is a huge red flag, but her overall tone is good and especially her day 1 was super towny. I'll keep her in null, I won't vote here today but I would probably vote her immediately if Doc flipped red and would consider it after a moot/Michi red flip.
Post by: ExLight on February 18, 2021, 12:50:14 AM
Nah lol it improves town’s winning chances very slightly but that’s about it. Not really game breaking, and the objective of finding scum still happens pretty much unalteredI’m not going to be here listening people sussing me when I pinkie promised being town. I don’t think yall realize how much I value that. umuDoesn't it defeat the purpose of the game if you have a way to make it obvious and certain to everyone that you're town? If everyone did that...well, we'd have no game. :P
I’ll read what’s going on here. Sorry about not being active today, yesterday was my brother’s birthday and my mental health just pummeled to the ground today. Not having a PC doesn’t help either umu
I might steal his iPad later though lmao.
Post by: ExLight on February 18, 2021, 01:06:34 AM
Also, I'd hope you'd realize that I'd be a smart enough wolf to not kill those that I was "suspicious" of in the game. Like that's textbook wolf suicide stuff, andNot only that is WIFOM but it would also be a team decision, not solely yours. If they felt like this would improve your chances of not getting lynched then why not?
Hmm, I kinda like this actually. It doesn’t necessarily exclude Moot from being scumbuds because since it was a smaller wagon it was mildly safe, though, but I agree that makes him more likely to be Town.Well here's some more voting history then:Well, shit. Check out this posts from BSR:I'm not opposed to a Kane or a Moot lynch (see my reasoning from earlier and general sus-edness of Moot, Minish and Kane), but because one might come with some good info last minute, I'll vote for the smaller wagon (Moot) at the present time because I have no idea when EOD is2/3 of those flipped town.
Vote: WintermootWintermoot - 3 (Anubhav Ghosh, BraveSirRobin, NyghtOwl)@BraveSirRobin has dropped to the very bottom of my list now. Anything to say? You're now my vote for today.
This is good. This is how we caught Ruguo out too.
D1: No vote from BSR
D2: Didn't vote for the Ruguo wagon
D3: Voted for a townie wagon (TGN over Sapph, claimed they knew Sapph was a PR based on his hints. This is a pretty easy situation for scum. Get some town cred for not voting Sapph, but still mislynch a townie no matter who dies)
D4: Votes for TGN again, a townie
This is all circumstantial though, and it assumes Moot is town, but if we assume BSR is scum, then these actions make perfect sense.
If Moot is Town that reinforces my scumread on Vro too since I strongly believe in one scum between them. Yes this tunnel is still going.
Post by: ExLight on February 18, 2021, 01:14:53 AM
and the stuff from D1 that he pulled off
like
it’s screams scummy to me and I really don’t understand why people are townreading him, can the people townreading him explain to me? is it gut feeling?
I’m like 72% sure he’s scum
don’t even reply to this with a wall post Vro use that energy to make a readlist and if you OMGUS me I’ll get mad yeet
Post by: ExLight on February 18, 2021, 01:17:17 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 18, 2021, 01:31:27 AM
Reminder that Vro jumped into BSR’s defense D1 with that whole “if Michi flips scum then BSR is likely scum” prolly hoping to lynch Michi who is townie imo and kinda fallacy clear BSR in the process. Funny enough later on D3 and D4 he completely drops that and scumreads BSR but not Michi, which makes me a bit confused actually.
Doc used something similar to kinda clear Vro upon TGN’s flip, so him insisting on that recently kinda makes me raise some eyebrows too.
BSR/Vro/Doc
Pretty decent chance of scum here with smaller chance of buds and Vro flipping probably gives the most information but I’d be fine with any of these, although I’d keep some skepticism if the lynch seems too easy since scum prolly is able to influence votes significantly by now.
I might also give a second look at Gerrick since that’s who Minish was kinda keeping an eye when she died, her logic did make sense so she might’ve been onto something. We should prolly compare her reads with HD’s to see if they were killed because they were either on the right track or because they’re considered high skill players.
Post by: Vroendal on February 18, 2021, 01:37:16 AM
Town Core -
Red - Am still town reading from his actions D1 and 2, has done nothing that has pinged me.
ExLight - Has been poking and scum-hunting, also I believe the pinkie promise, sue me.
Legacy - Scum-hunting, contributes to discussions, has advocated for what I feel are town-motivated takes.
Anubhav - Has contributed form his own perspective, which reads townie to me, tone is townie.
Town Lean -
Nyght - I'm still town-reading from pokes and general tone.
cozmik - I think her posts have sounded genuine, her pokes also jive with what I think is a townie mindset.
Gerrick - Has had rather unique views, I'm growing more wary as the thread progresses but I still am really liking the high effort he's been putting in his posts, he's thorough and that's good for town.
Nulls -
Doc/BSR/Michi - These three I'm not even sure what to think about anymore, Doc has pushed a fabricated connection between me and TGN, but his posts have felt more townie than his wolf game in LOTR, BSR has had some really good late-game posts, but I'm scared because I'm town-reading other people more so he's still in my PoE, Michi had a rough start, but I still don't think scum Michi would give up the game D2 like he did.
Wischland - Has had less impact on the game than the other players, I've been liking her reads and posts, but I'm not seeing as many as I might expect from her anymore, and it feels like she's been lying low.
Scum Lean -
Wintermoot - The Sapph vote still doesn't jive for me, I have it in my mind that one of Sapph's voters has to be a wolf (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn), guess what, everyone else except a general thread Town Core read (Legacy) is dead. Moot has also not had a lot of impact on the game as a result of his lower post count, which may not be AI in this case but it's still something to consider as many of the more active players have been town read either previously or currently.
I'm not voting Moot quite yet, my head is not in the game right now, I need time to think. This reads list has been re-done from when I was town-leaning most of them from earlier.
Post by: Vroendal on February 18, 2021, 01:44:08 AM
Reminder that Vro jumped into BSR’s defense D1 with that whole “if Michi flips scum then BSR is likely scum” prolly hoping to lynch Michi who is townie imo and kinda fallacy clear BSR in the process. Funny enough later on D3 and D4 he completely drops that and scumreads BSR but not Michi, which makes me a bit confused actually.My attack on BSR was motivated from the very few read opportunities I had on BSR, from D1 I had seen a possible Michi/BSR scum connection, but if Michi was town that didn't clear BSR by the logic I used. By D3/4 I had been town-reading Michi from his approach and tone, and my PoE was closing. BSR was still a major worry for me.
Post by: ExLight on February 18, 2021, 01:48:45 AM
I need to check when BSR voted you D2, but I feel you might not to be buddies.
Vote: BraveSirRobin
For now this, but I’ll still keep an eye on you.
Post by: Doc on February 18, 2021, 03:27:03 AM
Wagon Target: Voter 1 (vote number #, [information about when unvote was made]), Voter 2 (vote number #), Voter 3 (vote number #)...; provisional votes (votes which were made but later withdrawn are also included to see voting patterns
Additional formatting information: Bold is for that day's lynch,
D1 votes:
Red Mones:
Hapi:
Wintermoot:
Doc:
Vroendal: Sapphiron (7)
Michi: Gerrick (8 ),
Sapphiron:
Melehan:
No Lynch:
Cozmikrae: Hapi (15)
BSR: Kane (18)
Ruguo: Red Mones (25)
No EOD Votes:
Michi
BraveSirRobin
TGN
Dawcreek (replaced by Anubhav Ghosh D2)
Ogun of Valeria (replaced by LegacyOfSmiles D3)
Alexander Valentine (replaced by Exlight D3)
Eastern New England (replaced by Humandawn D3)
Still intending to do the other days but on balance it's a long-ass post anyway, so might as well break it up into a series of smaller ones and hear people's thoughts.
The thing that stands out to me that, as best as I can tell isn't much commented on, is the late-day flurry of vote-withdraw-vote on Michi.
That sparks some new interest in Vro for me. Unclear if it will keep playing out in future days, since up to this point my analysis has been on the wagons' end-state rather than how they evolved over time, and more to the point that's also behavior that Minish did so it might not even be AI.
(Full disclosure: I'd forgotten that Minish flipped town until I went back down the list so I was about to hammer down on Minish and Vro with a 'this conduct is sus as fuck' before realizing 'wait...that's only 7 dead, but something on Discord told me scum landed a NK' and checking.)
Post by: Wischland on February 18, 2021, 04:34:55 AM
Wisch
Red Mones - Ruguo vote, helpful posts. As scum would probably have seized chance to be town leader, which has not happened.
ExLight - All the analysis, lots of digging, drives the discussion to the benefit of town
Anubhav Ghosh - Been more active recently with original thoughts. Doesn't really seem connected to anyone.
Legacy of Smiles - Has also been leading discussion, and style/timing of their posting makes me think more of town checking in rather than scum looking for the right time to chime in.
NyghtOwl - Still feel good about them based on their posts earlier in the game. I'd like to see them post more, but I'm hardly one to talk and I understand that this is a lot.
Gerrick - has made some pretty solid posts with good reasoning lately. I'm a little wary that he may scum trying to take more control of the narrative, but his posts seem to follow towny logic, so he's here for now.
Doc - Has developed multiple original theories and doesn't really seem connected to anyone else. Leaning town.
Michi - Has been quiet, but I get it. Has been pretty consistent throughout though, with their focus on BSR rather than trying to sneak into bandwagons so that seems more town.
Vroendal - I started the game feeling really good about Vro, but the more people poke at Vro the more I struggle to maintain that good impression. Also I feel like they've made less substantial posts lately, which is a weird change of pace.
Wintermoot - Their posts have been logical and well-reasoned but always seem to lead to a different conclusion than everyone else's posts. While not inherently bad, it does seem a little off.
Cozmikrae - I haven't 100% been able to follow all the arguments here, but I recognize there was some sus stuff in voting and I can't recall any significant defense.
BSR - Started the game pushing hard against Vro for several day phases, without actually voting for Vro. But now that Vro seems more threatened by a potential lynch, BSR makes mention of Vro and votes for Wintermoot. If BSR is scum then I wouldn't be surprised if Vro is too.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 18, 2021, 02:38:28 PM
For now I will vote: Doc, because I believe that the case against him is getting stronger and stronger. To restate that case...he basically foreshadowed what ended up happening between TGN and Ruguo, yet his actions were the opposite of what he claimed that situation would mean when he stated it. He strongly pushed a TGN/Vro wolf connection across multiple turns that didn't pan out, at least when it comes to TGN. Now we learn that that he's been on every winning wagon in the game so far except for the one that ended up being the wolf.
As far as Werewolf goes, I think that's a fairly strong case. Hopefully I can make at least another post or two before the end of the extended phase, so I'm not saying it's a final vote.
I think the BSR post where he casted suspicion on two people who are proven town now is interesting, but I would like to hear more (and if I missed more in his case than I'd like to see it and apologize).
I don't necessarily find Michi suspicious or not suspicious, but I can confirm that he's had issues with low-quality internet that's being aggravated by weather, so his inactivity at the moment in itself isn't suspicious to me.I’m not going to be here listening people sussing me when I pinkie promised being town. I don’t think yall realize how much I value that. umuDoesn't it defeat the purpose of the game if you have a way to make it obvious and certain to everyone that you're town? If everyone did that...well, we'd have no game. :PMoot: Quite suspicious voting , total disregard for PR softening .I've already explained my vote on Sapphiron, and continue to be amazed that "I'm worth more to town dead than alive" should be taken to mean so much from someone that was in danger of being killed off. It could just as easily have been said from a wolf trying to save their ass...Ex and his pinkie promises aside, there's no guarantee that someone is being honest when they say something like that, especially when they have a motive to say anything to keep from being killed.Also the fact that Moot tried to pull Doc into the scum soup , seems strange to me, because I feel Sapph indicated TGN , and he used that possibly to prevent his own lynch and get TGN wagon running . Doc doesn't seem an issue.Doc: Sapph said about consecutive wolf possibility , which makes me feel Doc might be a scum. This is a weak lead to me though , but there is no harm in mentioning.So is that that he might be scum or that he doesn't seem an issue? Funny that you seem to change your mind on Doc when you decide that being suspicious of him is a reason for suspicion. I have repeatedly posted my reasoning (which didn't even include the fact that he was on every town wagon and not on the 1 wolf wagon, which someone only realized today), and there was more to it than simply what Sapph said.Maybe the softening was too soft that it seemed scum , but it was NOT a risk worth taking as a townie i would sayWhen was it ever going to be worth tasking a risk? It's not like we were ever going to know for sure...at the end of the day, no matter when the vote came up, you were either going to believe that Sapph was hinting at being a power role or throwing out a generic defense to save his ass. I feel like what you're saying is an easy thing to say in hindsight when we know the result, not so much at the moment that it's happening.Quote, and the fact that Moot has been a discussion topic everyday and has not been a topic while voting makes me feel that scums are diluting suspicion that has accumulated on him , so the early wagon might work as a reminder , "OK, so its time to bring in Moot now on the voting table from the discussion table. "Isn't this the reasoning that was used with TGN this game, or Vro early on last game?-Wintermoot: I agree with him about Sapphiron's D3 softing being so soft it could be wolfy (partly why I didn't switch to defend Sapph). His comments on Doc's TGN-Ruguo/TGN-Vro connection theories, however, aren't really straight as he defends TGN D2 and D3 (saying he's just immature and Ruguo being wolf clears him as town per Doc's theory) then votes for him D4, although his reasoning on D4 could sorta makes sense in that he wanted to expose a possible distancing attempt by Doc from TGN and didn't want to start a vanity wagon against Doc right before EoD when TGN's and Kane's wagons were tied (he did start such a vanity wagon on D5, though, but I suppose he didn't need to vote Kane (the only other larger wagon) since his wagon was much smaller than Kane's and Kane didn't look particularly scummy to me).During the last few days I've only been able to contribute late in the phase, and given the number of people to consider and being so late to reply, I thought it would be wise to vote on one of the existing wagons because it was too late to make a difference otherwise...first Sapph vs TGN, then TGN vs Kane, and if we want to extend it to yesterday Kane vs myself. In the first two cases I think I even said if I had to choose between the two of them when voting. I know I'm town (talk about generic defenses, lol), and I didn't suspect Kane at all (and now we know he was town), so I had no choice but to vote for someone else and I returned to my previous philosophy of voting for the person I feel is most suspicious regardless.
But the fact of the matter, everyone that's been wagoned toward the end of the last three days has been proven to be town (except for me, of course), and now I feel my logic in voting on existing wagons over people I feel to be more suspicious was incorrect.
The risk was not worth it , he might have tried to soft up high , but faced no rebellion in that softening regard , which is why it seemed obvious that no one else was having a PR(since he softened up till the point of role revealing). As of Doc and TGN , they were the scums last game who are in this game . I had a suspicion on Doc because of that statement but I dug up a better reason why it was not indicating Doc later . He wanted to sow suspicion in our minds against TGN as that was the only wagon which if swelled could have saved Sapph . I don't think changing opinion is wrong , more of a drawback I guess . I like to see you answering me though , thought I won't receive a post from you answering me😅
Post by: Vroendal on February 19, 2021, 12:35:28 AM
Vote - Wintermoot
I haven't been especially convinced by his defense, if I'm wrong I'm wrong. This also may serve as a way of getting info on Doc, who I feel much less comfortable lynching right now.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 19, 2021, 12:55:38 AM
Towncore:
Legacy of Smiles
Spoiler
Cute tortoise. Would never stab you.
ExLight
Spoiler
Not going to do a full ISO here but has been extremely towny over the last few points to the point where I will probably never rescind this TR. High levels of WIM, solvy, active to a degree that scum has no real incentive to be and is not afraid to get into arguments or make hot takes that go against thread consensus. Overall, a clear townsperson.
Spoiler
I don't really think we should argue on this further because it doesn't progress the game forwards and is an easy place for scum to make themselves look active without contributing. The pinkie promise is a form of a strategy called a trust tell which you can read more about here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Trust_Tell. Note: it's not a banned strategy on this forum to my knowledge (although I don't like it personally) so ignore that part of the article please. Worth noting that it's likely that he's just being truthful (although I think he's town without having to factor it into my reads) but you can make of it what you will. If necessary, I can just make a case for why ExLight is town ignoring this and we can call it a day.
Anubhav Ghosh
Spoiler
Slightly bumped down from before because on a reread I think his refusal to make townreads was... iffy and reminiscent of new scum I've played with over discord but otherwise has been a very clear townsperson. Seems exceptionally pure and has clearly been backreading and analysing to make reads, even if I strongly disagree with some of the logic behind them. Would be very surprised if this slot is scum.
Red Mones
Spoiler
D2 interactions alone put him into towncore territory for me and has otherwise been towny too. Was paranoid about the sudden drop off in activity but recent posts have been solid and eased my doubts. I think the sudden change in perspective on BSR is much more likely to come from a town pov than not.
Town Leans:
Vroendel
Spoiler
Vote on Ruguo D2 is a good look. Active and helpful. Think he's spewed mostly clear from the large number of people who he is not w/w with. Reaction to being voted is somewhat understandable but has concerned me enough to not quite towncore them yet (although they are close to moving up).
Michi
Spoiler
Underwhelmed by his actual posts but I also think he's been spewed clear from interactions with Ruguo on both D1 and D2 as well as the fact that he's probably never w/w with Wischland, Gerrick or Vroendel thanks to D1 wagonomics (and a not great reason for him to be a tied vote, feels like LHF) as well as a lot of people generally wanting him dead at various points in the game. Choosing not to self-pres on D1 was a bad decision but probably a towny one... although it isn't certain that he was actually online to do so. Dipping after almost getting D1 mislynched also seems believable. However, voting in particular has been bad and I'm not moving him up any further in my reads until I start seeing more from his posts.
NyghtOwl
Spoiler
D1 posts strongly remind me if my own beginner mindset and would be hard to fake as scum. Was widely strongly townread for this but then has done very little of note since and has been on a few bad wagons since. Still likely town but I'm beginning to worry about them and really want to see more.
Null:
cozmikrae
Spoiler
I went over her in detail earlier and she's a null read. Struggling to get over the last minute unvote getting Sapphiron lynched (especially after she criticised somebody else's unvote causing a tie earlier that same day) but her D1 looks super towny and I would still be surprised if newer scum came into the thread in that manner. Early Ruguo vote was a good look but otherwise has argued with / pushed mostly townspeople (and only townspeople if Vro is town). HumanDawn kill is probably NAI but probably suggests experienced teammates if she flips red (as well as the Sapphiron voting shenanigans). Very good scum equity with Doc (drops to lowest read if Doc flips red), good scum equity with Michi and Wintermoot. Not w/w with Vroendel (and probably not with Red Mones too but I think he is just town anyway).
Wischland
Spoiler
Not w/w with Vro. Weird early hot take on Minish that I'm not sure if I like. Otherwise not very active, few posts seem AI. Appreciated the recent reads list but am struggling to put them higher. Paranoid about this slot.
Gerrick
Spoiler
Strongly disliked the early progression on Michi/Vroendel (probably not w/w with either). Hasn't really done anything town-indicative until today - liked their reads / explanations / questions which is why they are this far up.
Scum Leans
Doc
Spoiler
Mostly here by PoE. Voting problems have been discussed in-thread at length previously and I agree with the points (although I don't think they are exhaustive, most players have pretty bad voting records rn but not voting Ruguo looks bad on him). Has partner potential with a lot of players, cozmik most strongly. A few players' interactions with him in particular have pinged me (and explanations for him in some people's (cozmik and Wischland particularly) reads lists stand out compared to others. However, I like his solving recently.
BraveSirRobin
Spoiler
Has dropped pretty significantly for me after TGN / Kane (who I both scumread and believed were not w/w with BSR) flipped town, as has Minish. Hard disagree with the cozmik clear post, reasoning seems contrived. Still stand by that he had the towniest reaction to the Sapphiron lynch. Less likely to be w/w with Wintermoot because of strongly differing reactions towards Sapphiron's soft.
Wintermoot
Spoiler
I stand by the vote on Sapphiron being extremely suspicious and I don't buy the defence to it at all. If moot is town then the wagon on Sapphiron was completely made up of townspeople and that would be extremely weird (this would probably clear BSR if we assume multiple scum must have been voting him at the time).
I know we all feel this way but it's important we don't get demoralised now. We're still in a solid spot, we just need one red flip and I think this game will suddenly swing a lot more in our favour.
Ok and this took absolutely ages to make so if there's anything I didn't explain well enough please ask.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 19, 2021, 01:18:04 AM
Vote: Wintermoot
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 19, 2021, 02:12:32 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 19, 2021, 04:02:22 AM
Just got to the part Moot votes Sapph, and yea it’s pretty bad. They even acknowledge Saph’s soft saying that they’re more important to Town alive than dead.
Unvote
Vote: Wintermoot
Can we get a votecount? I might vote Doc depending on who’s more viable atm.
I feel like there’s something terribly off in the Vro/Doc/BSR bunch. I can see a Vro/Doc team or a Doc/BSR team, but not a Vro/BSR. In any case Doc seems to be the common factor here.
Post by: ExLight on February 19, 2021, 04:20:19 AM
You, as dead players, have external information, and should aim for minimum amount of interaction, avoiding hinting them in the game in any way (even if that wasn’t the intention).
Post by: Vroendal on February 19, 2021, 04:23:06 AM
Wintermoot (4) - (Anubhav, Vroendal, Legacy, ExLight)
cozmikrae (1) - (Gerrick)
BraveSirRobin (1) - (Michi)
Doc (1) - (Wintermoot)
Post by: Wintermoot on February 19, 2021, 04:26:57 AM
But I will say it's pretty suspicious how some people have been gunning for me from the very start of the round...people who act like my defense and vote for Sapph is bogus by acting like Sapph's one-line defense is some sort of holy grail of defenses that should just have been obvious. That seems like pretty blatant overreach to me, but that'll be up for the remaining town to consider next turn.
I've said everything that's on my mind, and can leave the game in peace if that's what it comes to.
Post by: Wischland on February 19, 2021, 04:37:00 AM
Vote: BSR
Post by: Red Mones on February 19, 2021, 04:39:03 AM
Vote: BraveSirRobin
Post by: ExLight on February 19, 2021, 04:40:35 AM
And I could push a Doc lynch? I hate being in the same wagon as Vro and lynching Doc also gives a ton of information. Hmm. Why is the only vote on Doc Moot though Dx
There’s no way Vro and Moot can’t be in the same team if one of them is scum, and I’m like really 50/50 on Moot flipping, while I’m mildly more confident on Vro flipping (yea I know math doesn’t really add up at first, it’s a bit complicated).
This is terrible. All my scumleans and reads except Vro are “viable” and I’m not sure which one to go first.
Post by: ExLight on February 19, 2021, 04:43:27 AM
Unvote
Vote: BraveSirRobin
CFDing BSR doesn’t sound that bad. I think my preference order is actually Doc > BSR > Wintermoot so that’s still better.
Post by: Red Mones on February 19, 2021, 04:46:30 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 19, 2021, 04:47:23 AM
the problem is that I’m MASSIVELY scumreading Vro and I can’t see them as partners
Post by: ExLight on February 19, 2021, 04:48:34 AM
I mean, not really, I said BSR was my top choice earlier.yea I kinda mean their timing if anything lmao
Post by: cozmikrae on February 19, 2021, 04:49:43 AM
Vote: Gerrick.
I have no feelings about the Wintermoot wagon. Like at all. It might be an overreaction. And this game we've had a lot of overreactions that ended in town lynches. So I'm not jumping on this one.
Post by: ExLight on February 19, 2021, 04:56:57 AM
like c’moooonI am more useful to Town alive than dead,Are you able to expound upon this in any way? That statement alone isn't going to make anyone unvote you. If you're waiting for a better reason/opportunity, I think now is the only time you should present your defense. It sounds like you're going to plan to present a defense at the very last second and leave us a very narrow margin of time to change our minds to make us panic so we do switch off of you, which I do not appreciate.
Vote: TGN
Like if you're softing a power role, soft harder, right now, it's do-or-die for you. You have presented no believable or realistic reason why we shouldn't lynch you. Even a stronger case against TGN from you personally is something at least.
look at this
how is this townie
he then acts like he has a super insight realizing it’s a power role when he asks abnuv to unvote which is ridiculously fake
he’s already aware sapph is softing a power role here and instead demands him to “soft harder”
I cantttt
If I die tonight and BSR flips green please lynch Vro, I thanks
Post by: cozmikrae on February 19, 2021, 05:00:48 AM
like c’moooonI am more useful to Town alive than dead,Are you able to expound upon this in any way? That statement alone isn't going to make anyone unvote you. If you're waiting for a better reason/opportunity, I think now is the only time you should present your defense. It sounds like you're going to plan to present a defense at the very last second and leave us a very narrow margin of time to change our minds to make us panic so we do switch off of you, which I do not appreciate.
Vote: TGN
Like if you're softing a power role, soft harder, right now, it's do-or-die for you. You have presented no believable or realistic reason why we shouldn't lynch you. Even a stronger case against TGN from you personally is something at least.
look at this
how is this townie
he then acts like he has a super insight realizing it’s a power role when he asks abnuv to unvote which is ridiculously fake
he’s already aware sapph is softing a power role here and instead demands him to “soft harder”
I cantttt
If I die tonight and BSR flips green please lynch Vro, I thanks
Sapph did soft harder after that though. And that's when Vro had the insight.
Post by: ExLight on February 19, 2021, 05:08:52 AM
If anything asking someone to “soft harder” sounds like rolefishing to check whether they should powerwolf or get ready for a nightkill.
Post by: Red Mones on February 19, 2021, 05:11:59 AM
Oh, right. Mostly these posts by Minish (who has now flipped town, so) that added to my general suspicion:I'm gonnaOh, yeah, forgot to make this part of my earlier post; were you ever gonna explain this like you said you would? All you said was
Vote: Gerrick
I don't have time to explain right now, I'll do so next day phase.Also still kinda hung up on Gerrick, though his defenses have been decently strong. Not liking that Michi is still in his scum list though, cuz I'm not really seeing it.Doesn't seem to constitute much of an explanation, but if it counts for you, it counts, I guess.
Snip
Ruguo - 1 (Red Mones)
Red Mones - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
Ruguo - 9 (Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Sapphiron, Minish, Michi, Melehan, Cozmikrae)
Vroendal - 5 (Ruguo, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Doc)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Eastern New England - 1 (Self)
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
TGN - 8 (BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight, Gerrick, Imaginative Kane, Minish, Red Mones, Wintermoot)
Imaginative Kane - 6 (Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Legacy of Smiles, TGN, Vroendal, Wischland)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Michi)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Human Dawn)
Interestingly, Vro and Wisch are the only two who voted for TGN against Sapph, but not against Kane. Dunno if that means anything.
I don't think Doc and Vro are aligned. Doc has a pretty bad voting history actually. But I don't know if he's one to bus or not, because the Silver lynch was prime bussing opportunity.
Looking at the votes on Silver (Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Sapphiron, Minish, Michi, Melehan, Cozmikrae), it looks like a pretty decent list actually.
I know I'm town, I really believe Red to be town, Anubhav seems town, Sapph is flipped town, Michi seems town, Melehan is flipped town, and I'm kinda town leaning Cozmik at the moment. So that just leaves Vro and Gerrick as the unknowns though I'm also kinda town leaning Vro even though I'm a bit paranoid about him.
Interestingly, I was just searching the print page to see if I could find where Gerrick's vote actually fell on Silver and I found a reads list that I'll talk about in a separate post. But it kind of makes me suspicious of him.
Oh fuck me, I just remembered looking back how bad Gerrick's vote on Silver was. Dunno how I forgot this. I had broken the tie between Silver/Vro and Gerrick voted after me. But he only voted because he said he would to prove he and Silver weren't connected and Red told him to prove it. I felt not great about that at the time and it completely slipped my mind.
Nevermind this post has turned into looking at Gerrick, so gonna post the reads list here.SpoilerQuoteLean Town
Wintermoot: Reads very similar to how he played last game when he was town.
Nyght: Seems to genuinely try to get the hang of this as a new player out in the open rather than talking to fellow wolves in private chat were he scum, so I'm town-reading him.
Kane: Seems to be genuinely helpful and trying to find scum.
Wischland: Appears to be acting the same as last game (which involved jumping on bandwagons) when she was town. Would like to hear more from her.
Dawcreek: Has yet to post. This lines up with last game (when he was town) where he ended up backing out of the game because it was overwhelming. I expect the same to happen again, unfortunately.
Minish: Making some really good points on people and sussing them out/asking people for meta.
Vroendal: Going a little hard on Michi considering the meta evidence (metevidence?) isn't as strong as he believes it is, but he is going hard on people like last game when he was town. I don't see the links between players he's talking about, though.
Neutral
Alexander Valentine: Has not posted, but has been online. Again, a new person, so understandable if he's overwhelmed.
Doc: Has made some reasonable points on suspicions. Looking a little more town than last game when he was scum.
cozmik: People are unfortunately fixated on her joke vote on Red (I know how that goes all too well). Don't like the whole "playing my strategy close to the chest" bit, which in general is not good for town, but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt right now since she's new here, and hounding on the new players is no fun.
Melehan: At first went hard on the RP chaos aspect (I assume she's taking a page from Hapi's playstyle after she read last game), which makes me lean scum, but then later she seemed to be really digging and coming to some of the same conclusions I am on people.
Hapi: I find her accusations against cozmik to be weak, but other than that there's not much to go on besides the memes. Hard to read Hapi.
Ruguo: Has spoken quite a bit but has been pretty shallow in their suspects, but I find their recent analysis prompted by Vro to be reasonable.
Red Mones: I don't buy the accusation that he's knowingly protecting cozmik because he's scum -- I'd do the same thing in his place. He has been playing very defensively, though, and I don't like how he doesn't have a vote in right now.
TGN: I don't think anyone can comprehend his actions. He seems to be on a level higher than everyone else, and his chaotic tendencies rival Hapi's.
Ogun: Has only made one post showing worry about the amount of posts to catch up on. Hope he ends up reading through it all and making a vote like he did last game as town. If not, he'll move to the scum section for me.
ENE: Posted a copypasta about why everyone should vote D1 then hasn't voted or even posted beyond that. He did turn out to be town last game while being quiet, though, so that might just be his style.
Lean Scum
Michi: Honestly, I'm surprised my vote turned into a wagon, but I'm sure as hell not gonna change my vote in case he turns out to be scum (someone's gotta die anyway). But his reactions to the wagon are kinda rubbing me the wrong way, luckily. Although his non-vote appears to be NAI in his case, he seems to really want everyone to be more quiet and less aggressive, which is usually better for the wolves.
BSR: Made a post asking about roles, and that's it. Tried to look helpful before falling back into the shadows? He's been online...
Sapphiron: Voted based on "RNG", and then stated we shouldn't take D1 discussion as very important, but that's it. Everything's important this early on, so don't know why he'd downplay it already (understandable later on, though)
Okay so, I colored the flips from his list and this is from d1. But, the contents of the list are interesting and seem vaguely familiar to how I'll do reads lists as scum sometimes in that he throws a few people who he knows are town in the town reads, has some nulls to be able to throw some sus on later, and then lists 3 scum leans. I find the list interesting for d1, because he has 3 scum leans and quite a few town leans already. But also the fact that of his town reads (Winter, Nyght, Kane, Wisch, Dawcreek/Anubhav, Me, and Vro), there are some very iffy reads in there and a few people I'm currently unsure about. I know I'm town and I believe Nyght and Anubhav to be town. But the ones that are interesting are Winter, Kane, and Wisch who he gives shallow reasons for town reading, who hadn't posted as much as a lot of people in his nulls, and who are still in PoE at the moment.
Gerrick had a bunch of people in his neutrals that had posted quite a bit, and he even reads some of them a certain way (ie, saying Doc seems townier than last game) yet that's not enough to read them but he had enough to read Winter, Kane, and Wisch?
As for his scum leans, we already know Sapph was town, Michi seems to look town, and BSR is an unknown. Though Gerrick did stay off the two town wagons of Sapph/TGN d3 and voted BSR instead, so I'm kinda feeling maybe BSR is town that scum was trying to make an easy mislynch push on now...
I think I'd feel pretty good about voting Gerrick today.
And:
Snip
@ExLight I kinda glanced over Vro's reads list you asked me to (getting pretty tired so this is brief) and tbh it didn't seem as bad as Gerrick's to me. I understand having a lot of nulls that early, even ones that have flipped town now, than having town reads on people who haven't said/done much of anything and nulls on people who have.
The one interesting thing I saw because I just read Vro's previous post is that in that he said he was wary of Wisch d1 but Wisch is in his town reads d1. Funny that there are two reads lists with Wisch as town d1 and I honestly don't really remember any of Wisch's posts (this is of no offense, just meant that you haven't had a big impact on things as much as others).
Anyways I'll have to go to bed soon and I think I talked myself into this.
Vote: Gerrick
-Red Mones: Helped lead the Ruguo wagon D2, and I personally think was cleared by Sapph’s poem. Don’t like his very sharp drop in posts since D2, but it’s understandable with how active the game is. Thoughts on Vro and Michi?I think Michi is town that's kinda checked out at this point. Bad experience D1, and ready to work on Spyfall and WW 25.
Vro is a wild card. I thought they were town early on, but not so much anymore. Something since D2 changed that I can't quite grasp. Also some of my other town leans have some suspicions as well, so yeah. Firmly null at this point probably.
Post by: Red Mones on February 19, 2021, 05:14:47 AM
CFDing BSR doesn’t sound that bad. I think my preference order is actually Doc > BSR > Wintermoot so that’s still better.Mine would probably be BSR > Doc. Gerrick, eeeehhhhh, Idk, still on the fence, but like I said his defense is solid. Doc and BSR seem to have something a bit more tangible.
I'm willing to go after Vro if BSR is lynched and flips town.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 19, 2021, 05:21:48 AM
It seems like he already knew what Saph had in mind with the first message. The second soft was completely unnecessary, a soft is a soft and the fact Vro was already considering the possibility of it being a soft shows the idea had already gone through.
If anything asking someone to “soft harder” sounds like rolefishing to check whether they should powerwolf or get ready for a nightkill.
Hmmm... this is a fair point.
I'm extremely skeptical. You and your pinky swears have probably figured this out by now. I tend not to believe unless given a really good reason. Sapph's hard soft sold me, the original soft was just.... eh.... So I empathized with Vro here.
Post by: ExLight on February 19, 2021, 05:32:54 AM
Post by: Gerrick on February 19, 2021, 05:44:25 AM
BSR (4): Michi, Wischland, Red Mones, ExLight
Wintermoot (3): Anubhav, Vroendal, Legacy
cozmikrae (1): Gerrick
Doc (1): Wintermoot
Gerrick (1): cozmikrae
No vote: Nyght, Doc, BSR
There's two obvious viable wagons with not much left if this day. Both are null for me, but if I had to choose one...
Vote: BraveSirRobin
His defense of cozmik definitely links them. Plus if he flips scum, that'll make me feel much better about Michi.
Post by: ExLight on February 19, 2021, 05:49:34 AM
D3 general recap and analysis:
Page 37:
-Red Mones scumreading Gerrick. I think this vote is coherent with the events from D2’s EoD and thus towny.
-Vro opposes BSR and Wintermoot. Immediately prompts me into reading Minish and questions me on why I’m townreading her.
-Wischland makes a readlist, a pretty large amount of scumleans. Shouldn’t the expected be a ton of nulls and townreads? I need to recheck later to see if her list is coherent with her plays.
-Red Mones commentary that 3 strong players subbed-in so someone should be scum for balance is nonsensical. It’s pure RNG, us being considered strong players means nothing, the host isn’t to interfere with this kind of stuff. Oh Minish points that out right after. Anyway, seeing Vro and Nyghts being core Town here bothers me a bit.
Page 38:
-HD notices Silver possibly praising Vro. Hmm, pocketing? Kinda ambiguous but favorable towards Vro.
Page 39:
-Me and Minish discussing a few things.
Page 40:
-Me and Minish discussing TGN and a bit of Vro.
-
Page 41:
-Oof TGN saying they were now focused on helping. I feel bad now, sorry again buddy.
-Sapph voted BSR. Also emphasized he did not see the Vro thing as wolfy which is kinda weird, is it coherent with his D2 mindset? Might be a green check on Vro.
Page 42:
-Hmm, I didn’t like the Silver/Ogum interactions despite the fact I’m Townreading Smiles. Am I being fooled by the turtle? I’ll still bite the bullet and trust them. Still not a fan of Moot pushing Red since I’m townreading Red.
-HumanDawn points out that weird Anubhav Ghosh interaction again, hmm. I don’t remember if I mentioned it in a previous recap. It’s a bit weird and makes me iffy of him if Vro is Town.
-Doc discussing game philosophies again. Oh ok, he explains what that ping thing was about, good. Also tunneling on a TGN and Vro scumteam, the logic here is fine. TGN flipped Town but since it was brought to me he was just a kid I don’t think he realizes in depths of the game, him not even trying to vote a counterwagon to self-preserve shows that and I feel like while this might be taken as protecting a scumbud it could be also just not being sure on how to play, and I feel like Doc should’ve been aware of this? Maybe he just had expectations too high for TGN, but still.
Page 43:
-Continuation of a small discussion on whether or not to not lynch. It’s simple, we should always expect 2 deaths per phase (unless inactives are around to mess things up that’s why everyone has to be active), so we can predict when -Lo will happen. LyLo is always better because it means smaller PoE, so better chances of lynching. It’s a bit tricky because Doctor might protect someone but if that puts us in MyLo it’s actually technically worse. I need to remember if No Lynch is allowed in MyLo, but since we can only use it once scum might be able to manipulate that with the kills, so it’s a bit weird.
-Vro says a lot.
-Smiles hardclears EME.
Page 44:
-Anubhav justifies him weird post. Hmm, it’s quite the advanced thinking for a first game, it’s kinda interesting.
-Gerrick makes am useful post. I actually agree with pretty much everything in it except for the Kane laying out thoughts well. He might be one of those players that just are able to persuade me easily so I’m mildly paranoid specially after Minish dying after slinging them out.
-Vro and Gerrick vote BSR. Ok, so see? This is the kind of shit that makes me nervous. Vro jumps right after saying they’ll bite into the BSR argument. There’s no argument, lol, you’re wanting to get rid of him because he put your ass in the line before. Big wagon forming, doesn’t really mean much. Makes me think Vro and BSR aren’t scumbuds together
Page 45:
-Discussion about the importance of Meta.
-Minish’s recap of Silver. There’s definitely stuff here hinting at other scum, hmm. It’s kinda weird. I don’t really like the Doc interaction. The BSR interaction seemed fine from what I remember? I don’t remember finding it artificial, hmm.
-Minish also seemed to think Sapph and BSR weren’t aligned. I might give another look into their interactions with each other, but Minish flipping Town makes me wanna just sheep some stuff she was into. She also gives a readlist later one, stuff didn’t change much.
Page 46:
-cozmikrae also ISOs Silver and seems to have the same feeling towards the Silver/Doc interactions that I had.
-Doc and cozmikrae vote TGN, so its wagon is now a leading one.
-Jesus Christ my opinions were completely shit, sorry I’ve been townleading :rinsad:
Page 47:
-Me pressuring TGN (sigh).
-Smiles votes somewhere else.
Page 48:
-Wischland’s post showing two sides of the same coin kinda pokes me a bit, but the logic in it is fair, I don’t think there’s anything for us here.
-Vro posts make all my red flags rise snsnfkgomdks is it the way he words these or what? He says TGN is reading townie and still says he might vote for TGN. I have no idea what that BSR interaction in the beginning was about and it also bothers me. I feel like there’s a considerable chance of Vro and BSR not being same alignment
Page 49:
-Surprisingly Doc defends BSR. I actually agree that it’s prolly NAI, but if BSR flips scum maybe I’d consider the odds of Doc and BSR being scum together slightly higher.
-Vro hits up with the generic “I don’t know who to trust!!”. A bit early for that and a bit scummy but ok.
-TGN and Sapph’s wagon gain the lead and become the guaranteed lynch of the day. I think maybe one scum in the split wagons and the other two not voting. Considering the flips and my townlocked reads that leaves Doc, Vroendal, and Wischland.
Page 50:
-Nyghts post here is interesting. Can be taken as scum voting somewhere else to not leave a trail, but could also be Town that still haven’t caught up with the latest votes and still thinks BSR is viable. This makes me think that if BSR is scum, Nyghts isn’t likely to be a scumbuddy.
Page 51:
- Wintermoot’s post. Votes Sapph while pointing out his soft as “generic”. I don’t like the rest of the post either, kinda like “twas so obvious TGN was town” vibes and I actually remember them throwing shade at TGN back in D2, so this is quite the red flag behavior.
-Oh my fucking god. What is that post from Vro quoting Sapph and asking him to soft harder because that “isn’t enough”. Rolefishing much? This also shows that the whole “Please unvote, Anubv!!” is extremely weird.
-Sapph mentioning people rolling scum twice catches my eye in his post but I’m not sure if that leads anywhere, I’ll recheck the scum from last game.
-BSR actually voices the worry about Saph being a power role, which actually makes me have really mixed feeling towards him. nsjshdnsksuwhenmf would scum do this? Was it already a guaranteed lynch to their eyes? Wouldn’t Town hesitate in trusting a soft? Really really really mixed feelings here.
Page 52:
-I hate Vro’s post. He sees Sapph’s post softing harder and goes like “nah, you did what I asked but I still don’t believe you” BUT STILL ASKS ABOUT SOMEONE TRYING TO JUMP OFF THE WAGON. He later makes a list with his scumreads, he’s suddenly trusting Sapph (despite not panicking over the fact a Power Role he trusts is being lynched) and makes a list of possible scum (which is kinda making scream internally because no way I cut or dice it it feels like everyone there has to be Town if he’s scum??).
Page 53 to 55:
-He actually seems to attempt to coordinate something to save Saph, though?? usvsigoofjosnnidindodmirb I need to reread what Vro said about this Day later on. This is a mess.
-Sapph poem.
-Vro and Anubv is basically that Spongebob scene “because he told me toooo!!!”. Vro lacked initiative to vocalize a defense of what he thought to be a power role. Hate it. If he’s scum he benefits from TGN flipping Town since Doc kept pushing that they were both paired.
-BSR makes another post pretty much OMGUSing and saying he won’t make an effort to save Sapph lol. Really hate it too.
-Doc: “Preliminary votecount off the Discord, credit to Gerrick”. Wow. You know, I made the exact same votecount before him ùmú
-cozmikrae’s tying unvote was terribly unfortunate and really pushes her a bit down in my list. From seeing her personality a bit more I feel like it was more impulsive than strategic, so it makes me think it’s more likely as town, but still a move scum would do.
It’s kinda jank this time, sorry umu
mobile sucks
No vote progression this time cuz we’re almost at deadline and I’m rushing this already.
Post by: Laurentus on February 19, 2021, 06:39:18 AM
BraveSirRobin - 5 (ExLight, Gerrick, Michi, Red Mones, Wischland)
Wintermoot - 3 (Anubhav Ghosh, Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal)
Gerrick - 1 (Cozmikrae)
Doc - 1 (Wintermoot)
BSR is thus the lynch. He was a normal Scout.
Post by: Laurentus on February 20, 2021, 06:00:24 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 20, 2021, 08:45:14 AM
just to suffer?
Vote: Vroendal
Vroendal/Doc/Anubv is my guess for scumteam, lesgo.
Third slot is a bit tricky, so really could be someone who was mildly inactive or overdefensive.
Very slightly chance of Red having hard bussed Silver, which I find really unlikely but still a possibility. And if Smiles is scum I don’t think I’ll be able to spot that without anyone make a strong case on them, I’m pretty set on putting him them on towncore and maybe dying on this hill.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 20, 2021, 02:21:59 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 20, 2021, 02:42:06 PM
why are we still hereI think the only way Red would bus like that D2 is if a lot of his team were in danger and they needed one person to go super deep to compensate (so unlikely to be w/w with people like Nyght who were well-regarded).
just to suffer?
Vote: Vroendal
Vroendal/Doc/Anubv is my guess for scumteam, lesgo.
Third slot is a bit tricky, so really could be someone who was mildly inactive or overdefensive.
Very slightly chance of Red having hard bussed Silver, which I find really unlikely but still a possibility. And if Smiles is scum I don’t think I’ll be able to spot that without anyone make a strong case on them, I’m pretty set on putting him them on towncore and maybe dying on this hill.
This is in super tinfoil territory but he has surprisingly good scum equity with Vro as Vro was the counterwagon that day so bussing either side hard would probably be the best move. But if this is my scumteam then I probably die laughing.
Wondering if Doc not bussing hard on D2 if Vro was scum would mean that those two slots can't be w/w. It would also be weird if there were two votes on moot yesterday but none on BSR.
Anubhav wolf is a spicy take but I don't even dislike it, I think I've really underestimated his capabilities and there's a lot of his stuff I disagree with but he's still in my top 3 towns. I strongly still think he's towning but I also think I am guilty of misclearing him. (Top Anubhav wolf partner would actually be Michi BTW and that's a super spicy take on top of a super spicy take lol).
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 20, 2021, 02:46:58 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 20, 2021, 02:48:00 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 20, 2021, 02:53:16 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 20, 2021, 03:38:18 PM
Okay. So Ex you seem to be pretty experienced. If I may borrow from that, what about Vro is pinging you as scum? I have my suspicions but I'm not sure how to properly articulate what I'm thinking without sounding like an idiot.It’s mostly the stuff I mentioned in the recaps. Him jumping out of the wagon D1 can be interpreted as him not wanting to have his name attached to any lynches, scum not really trying to push his lynch D2, him jumping out of Sapph’s wagon despite pushing it after realizing the soft claims (and for some reason asking Anubv and only Anubv to jump out while if he wanted the lynch to be stopped he would’ve said it word by word in the thread). He also seems to like a ton of posts that without reading much into them, as some turned out to be cases into people that flipped Town, I feel like this also makes him look slightly bad. And at last I remember him putting a lot of energy into focusing more in defending himself and sheeping people overall rather than in scumhunting, which isn’t a good sign; although I‘m a bit hazy about this so I might have to reread Days 4-6.
He does have a few nice things going for him, which is expected considering he’s been interacting a ton, but that slot is by far the one that is making me lose my head.
I feel like I'm playing badly and getting townread for it and I'm not sure if that's hilarious or concerning.Lol, I actually think you’re playing really really well, specially since this is like your second(?) forum mafia game; and I think you have a ton of potential. Same for Anubv and Cozmikrae. Nyghts also seems to have a ton of potential, but the intensity of the game seems to be a bit overwhelming to them?
It’s just that Town is a bit lost here. Not having claims and the cop dying really early on in a large setup means we have to rely on limited mechanical information, and instead stick with vote patterns and stuff like that which is a bit of a pain when we still have a ton of players and some are mildly inactive :aaaAAA:
Question for anyone who wants to answer this: assuming moot is scum, where were the wolves voting yesterday? I'm assuming if moot is town there were 1-2 on BSR which is why I'm asking the opposite scenario.If Moot is scum that should make Vro look a lot better to me, and maybe Doc. It would make Wisch and Gerrick look a bit worse, with a good chance of at least one of them being scum; not because of any relevant interaction I can think of the top of my head but because they’re my null reads that could’ve pushed Moot last Day but didn’t.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 20, 2021, 03:53:14 PM
Anubhav, can you please name me the three people who you believe are least likely to be wolves at this point in time?
Red Mones , Vro for most of it , third slot will have you and red( 2 candidates)
About scumlean , my first candidate is still Moot , and I think I have quite convincing leads , and there is no doubting the fact that I will go for a wagon again . ExLight seems sus to me as I find he is making a push for me as a potential method of diluting suspicion on Moot .
Post by: ExLight on February 20, 2021, 04:20:59 PM
and Vro aren’t scum together no matter how I look at it, and to me Vro has a lot more of scummy stuff going for him.
Since you keep defending Vro of course I can’t help but assume you’re connected.
Post by: ExLight on February 20, 2021, 04:21:27 PM
idk why it ate the name
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 20, 2021, 05:06:45 PM
lol
these doctors are either amazing or scum is inactive/messing up with us hoping we’ll clear someone we shouldn’t later
Erh, sorry for pushing Sapph’s wagon as an option last Day, I know it probably looks bad, but I’ll try to make up for it. I’ve been having mood swings and I have a mildly important test this Friday so my activity get a bit janky this Phase or in the next Day one.
I’m pinkie swearingto be Town, Minish and HumanDawn can probably vouch that I have a policy of never lying with these in a game, so this should act as an Innocent Child and save us from wasting time discussing me.
We should reread Sapph’s message to find who his targets were, since it could probably tell us his results. If I recall correctly I remember him putting Mel in his Towncore D2, so that was probably his N1 check.
For N2 there was the poem he wrote, his TGN vote, and him saying something about people being scum twice in a row not being impossible.
For the vote wagons: not a fan of Cozmikrae making a complete 180° in the last seconds allowing the tie to happen (which is the complete opposite of what people should want maybe) and TGN not biting the bullet. Not sure why Vro didn’t tell Anubvh to vote TGN to save Sapph since he clearly noticed what was going on and asking someone to vote their townlean doesn’t really seem like an excuse to let this happen.
I like how you're tunneling on me like you should because of me hounding you, but when it was silver you slapped him on the top of your readslist as almost towncore
if you're town, which would be really surprising to me at this point, I hope you learned you shouldn't just meme around and focus only on self-preserve yourself over scumhunting like you did this whole game :wave:Sus of exlight. I’ll need to do some rereading to say why. But I’m getting wolfy vibes.in my land there's a saying that goes "if ExLight isn't looking scummy something is wrong"
Also sus of this sudden Vro/Ghosh alliance.
If u don't look scummy , its problematic.
Then why are u using the pinkie promise to prove urself town . That just kills the show of scumminess that is a normal method of urs , coz u say if u aren't playing it in the scummy way , something is wrong . Can't wait for an explanation and keep it simple . Ngl , of all the players here , I take most time to understand and interpret your posts(U should publish a short story book , I love reading ur posts :) )
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 20, 2021, 05:22:04 PM
my Pinkie Promise! ùmú
and Vro aren’t scum together no matter how I look at it, and to me Vro has a lot more of scummy stuff going for him.
Since you keep defending Vro of course I can’t help but assume you’re connected.
Tbh if Moot wagon is successful , I will have hell lot of suspicion on his defenders previously and non voters , only if Moot flips scum . There has to be support from scum to save him since it will become a two scum party then , and that will help us get a catch.
Moot didn’t stand out much to me but I liked his posts enough for him to be a townleanto me. I’ll reread them in the afternoon and I’ll give you an updated opinion on it.New tinfoil theory, TGN is the lynchproof scum and that’s why they were overlyconfident D2. A scumbuddy points out that even though he wouldn’t die from a lynch it would still expose him since he’s the only one like that. He then starts panicking at the idea of getting lynched.
Possible . Btw could u shed light on Moot , as i said , i need some help and basically i am using much analysis that comes from others . Also i made a synopsis of Sapph's poem , maybe u can justify whether it fits or not
I lost my D3 recap post so I’m having to rewrite it all. umu
Just got to the part Moot votes Sapph, and yea it’s pretty bad. They even acknowledge Saph’s soft saying that they’re more important to Town alive than dead.
Unvote
Vote: Wintermoot
Can we get a votecount? I might vote Doc depending on who’s more viable atm.
I feel like there’s something terribly off in the Vro/Doc/BSR bunch. I can see a Vro/Doc team or a Doc/BSR team, but not a Vro/BSR. In any case Doc seems to be the common factor here.
ExLight supported and read Moot as town when I asked him about his opinion after Sapph lynch . He did say about updating his read , which never came . Later on last day he voted BSR first(probably, need to check this fact). Then came a post of mine where I said everyone defending Moot and not voting him would make them an evident target for me , and guess what , the VERY NEXT POST WAS A EXLIGHT UNVOTE , and he went in for Moot (guess he took the bait). Also the knack of ExLight to hit upon under-the-radar posts makes me think , he didn't ignore my post and the unvote and vote was a reaction to that
Post by: Vroendal on February 20, 2021, 05:36:33 PM
ExLight Post
Okay. So Ex you seem to be pretty experienced. If I may borrow from that, what about Vro is pinging you as scum? I have my suspicions but I'm not sure how to properly articulate what I'm thinking without sounding like an idiot.It’s mostly the stuff I mentioned in the recaps. Him jumping out of the wagon D1 can be interpreted as him not wanting to have his name attached to any lynches, scum not really trying to push his lynch D2, him jumping out of Sapph’s wagon despite pushing it after realizing the soft claims (and for some reason asking Anubv and only Anubv to jump out while if he wanted the lynch to be stopped he would’ve said it word by word in the thread). He also seems to like a ton of posts that without reading much into them, as some turned out to be cases into people that flipped Town, I feel like this also makes him look slightly bad. And at last I remember him putting a lot of energy into focusing more in defending himself and sheeping people overall rather than in scumhunting, which isn’t a good sign; although I‘m a bit hazy about this so I might have to reread Days 4-6.
He does have a few nice things going for him, which is expected considering he’s been interacting a ton, but that slot is by far the one that is making me lose my head.
I asked Anub because he was the likeliest to leave, and he was active in the thread at the time, it was very doubtful anyone else I asked would have left or even been there to leave, and I didn't see cozmik's unvote until it was already too late. I could have articulated it word for word, but I felt like the soft at this point was clear to everyone and you either believed Sapph's defense or you didn't, articulating it didn't seem like it would have much effect.
If I see a case I like in a post, I like the post. Multiple people can read into the same wrong mindsets. I think my like on the post you pointed out might have just been a misclick while scrolling though tbh. Maybe I am defending myself too much, but I've already laid out what I think, and I've voted and pushed the ones I find suspicious. My lowered levels of activity would be due to unforeseen things happening irl, as much as I hate using this excuse it has put a lot of pressure on me mentally and I have a lot less energy to devote to ISO'ing etc, defending myself is easier.
If you want to decide on my slot more feasibly, why not lynch Moot? My EoD voting pattern hasn't been that bad either, coinflip two null reads, lynch a wolf, try to save the Seer, try to save TGN, vote a townie that seemed suss imo, and vote Moot who I am almost certain is a wolf yesterday. I think I've been on the better side of the lynched for the most part, I think I actually look better than you in that case.
Vote - Wintermoot
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 20, 2021, 05:44:33 PM
Question for anyone who wants to answer this: assuming moot is scum, where were the wolves voting yesterday? I'm assuming if moot is town there were 1-2 on BSR which is why I'm asking the opposite scenario.
I think Wisch can be a possible scum . His voting comes with very , very less reasoning and posts.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 20, 2021, 06:00:25 PM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 20, 2021, 06:01:38 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 20, 2021, 06:04:36 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 20, 2021, 06:04:59 PM
Also one very notable point , I have the confidence now to start a wagon of my own , and even if it ends in mislynch i have no problem in getting myself covered in suspicions , coz i know I will come out on top with my defense. Two of the most influential and active person are Smiles and Ex. I scumread Ex, and maybe after I read Legacy's posts I can probably ask him about some stuffs that might arouse suspicion , but I still townread Smiles. However much depends on Ex turning out scum as well.If you don't mind, can I ask you what changed your mind on how you read me? (Very happy you're making town reads today BTW :) )
And yeah, if you see something that you don't understand in my posts or you disagree, please question me on it / challenge my logic.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 20, 2021, 06:10:09 PM
(I know I've said this before but tough you're not getting rid of me yet :) ).
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 20, 2021, 06:15:21 PM
Also one very notable point , I have the confidence now to start a wagon of my own , and even if it ends in mislynch i have no problem in getting myself covered in suspicions , coz i know I will come out on top with my defense. Two of the most influential and active person are Smiles and Ex. I scumread Ex, and maybe after I read Legacy's posts I can probably ask him about some stuffs that might arouse suspicion , but I still townread Smiles. However much depends on Ex turning out scum as well.If you don't mind, can I ask you what changed your mind on how you read me? (Very happy you're making town reads today BTW :) )
And yeah, if you see something that you don't understand in my posts or you disagree, please question me on it / challenge my logic.
I haven't read much of ur posts , I need to go through them . I haven't changed my opinion , just saying i need more reading . U r still in my top 3
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 20, 2021, 06:16:47 PM
Sorry Anubhav, I know you're seeing a lot of things, but I would find it very highly unlikely to be Ex from his pushing style, tone, effort, and other little things I've noticed. If you're set on him, I understand, but at least try and lynch him as the last wolf alive instead of right now.
Yeah , my posts do seem I value my posts much and assume other doing so (
But my strongest suspicion lies on Moot
Post by: ExLight on February 20, 2021, 06:22:53 PM
Why would I lynch Moot if I feel like you’re more likely to be scum?
If you want to decide on my slot more feasibly, why not lynch Moot? My EoD voting pattern hasn't been that bad either, coinflip two null reads, lynch a wolf, try to save the Seer, try to save TGN, vote a townie that seemed suss imo, and vote Moot who I am almost certain is a wolf yesterday. I think I've been on the better side of the lynched for the most part, I think I actually look better than you in that case.
Coinflipped two people likely to be town, voted the scum only as OMGUS to self preserve, tried to “save” the seer after pushing his lynch despite realizing he was softing and then jumping out of it during EoD when it was unstoppable. As far as I reread up to D3 these are really scummy, not townie, mainly because the final vote counts give a false impression that you were always on the right side of history, when in reality you seemed to throw shade at multiple places without putting your vote where your mouth was. This got slightly better, but I can’t help but notice it was after you got put a bit under the spotlight. I don’t even think this is a case of TWTBW because you’re somehow going under the radar?
If Moot is scum, who do you think are his scumbuds? He wouldn’t be working by himself. Can you give me a list of 3 players you suspect to be his scumbuds and maybe show some links between them?
Yea, I agree I’m flipflopping hard on the Moot’s slot. But I don’t want to keep spending lynches on people for information and hoping one flips scum now that I feel like we can spot at least one or two scum with all the stuff we have atm.my Pinkie Promise! ùmú
and Vro aren’t scum together no matter how I look at it, and to me Vro has a lot more of scummy stuff going for him.
Since you keep defending Vro of course I can’t help but assume you’re connected.Tbh if Moot wagon is successful , I will have hell lot of suspicion on his defenders previously and non voters , only if Moot flips scum . There has to be support from scum to save him since it will become a two scum party then , and that will help us get a catch.Moot didn’t stand out much to me but I liked his posts enough for him to be a townleanto me. I’ll reread them in the afternoon and I’ll give you an updated opinion on it.New tinfoil theory, TGN is the lynchproof scum and that’s why they were overlyconfident D2. A scumbuddy points out that even though he wouldn’t die from a lynch it would still expose him since he’s the only one like that. He then starts panicking at the idea of getting lynched.
Possible . Btw could u shed light on Moot , as i said , i need some help and basically i am using much analysis that comes from others . Also i made a synopsis of Sapph's poem , maybe u can justify whether it fits or notI lost my D3 recap post so I’m having to rewrite it all. umu
Just got to the part Moot votes Sapph, and yea it’s pretty bad. They even acknowledge Saph’s soft saying that they’re more important to Town alive than dead.
Unvote
Vote: Wintermoot
Can we get a votecount? I might vote Doc depending on who’s more viable atm.
I feel like there’s something terribly off in the Vro/Doc/BSR bunch. I can see a Vro/Doc team or a Doc/BSR team, but not a Vro/BSR. In any case Doc seems to be the common factor here.
ExLight supported and read Moot as town when I asked him about his opinion after Sapph lynch . He did say about updating his read , which never came . Later on last day he voted BSR first(probably, need to check this fact). Then came a post of mine where I said everyone defending Moot and not voting him would make them an evident target for me , and guess what , the VERY NEXT POST WAS A EXLIGHT UNVOTE , and he went in for Moot (guess he took the bait). Also the knack of ExLight to hit upon under-the-radar posts makes me think , he didn't ignore my post and the unvote and vote was a reaction to that
And I used the pinkie promise not to look townie, but to force the people that think I’m scummy to trust me blindly, lol. It’s a guarantee I’m Town: it already reduces the PoE, forces scum to try to get rid of me (which could result in me protected and thus WIFOMing them into killing less Townread players), and if anything it should help people reevaluate interactions about me which also helps scumhunting; it’s not really just about me.
As for me kinda scumreading you, yea. You already showed that you’re aware your inexperience might help you get a free pass with scummy stuff, so I don’t see why I shouldn’t be taking some of your actions with skepticism. I don’t sense paranoia or exhaustion from your pushes despite 4 mislynches in a row, which I feel should be expected; and your interactions with Vro have been making me uncomfortable and afraid of Powerwolfing.
Post by: Vroendal on February 20, 2021, 06:49:23 PM
Why would I lynch Moot if I feel like you’re more likely to be scum?Because while approaching the game from the perspective that I'm scum you've lynched only town.
Coinflipped two people likely to be town, voted the scum only as OMGUS to self preserve, tried to “save” the seer after pushing his lynch despite realizing he was softing and then jumping out of it during EoD when it was unstoppable. As far as I reread up to D3 these are really scummy, not townie, mainly because the final vote counts give a false impression that you were always on the right side of history, when in reality you seemed to throw shade at multiple places without putting your vote where your mouth was. This got slightly better, but I can’t help but notice it was after you got put a bit under the spotlight. I don’t even think this is a case of TWTBW because you’re somehow going under the radar?
If Moot is scum, who do you think are his scumbuds? He wouldn’t be working by himself. Can you give me a list of 3 players you suspect to be his scumbuds and maybe show some links between them?
I wouldn't say that by Michi's/Hapi's defenses they were likely to be town, only by D1 standards. I voted Silv to self-preserve but also because I saw the basis behind the pushes against them and I had been worried about Silv being able to fake their posts and of myself being pocketed D1. Yeah, but a PR soft doesn't mean a believable soft, you can soft all you want but if I don't see a good basis for you being a PR or your innocence I'll still push it. His post after that looked a lot better to me. Yeah, I threw shade, nothing wrong with that, I wanted reads. The convo's from that day and from my shade-throwing and the subsequent responses led me to decent resting points at the end.
If Moot is scum, I think Wisch could be scum because her vote yesterday could be interpreted as trying to save Moot. I don't have that much on links with anyone else, it's notable that he's interacted a lot with both Michi and Doc, sort of pushing Doc's case at points, and arguing for Michi D1 but then poking him D2. From his votes and pushes, I think it can be concluded that he's not w/w with me or Red.
He voted Red over Michi/Hapi, me over Ruguo/TGN, Sapph over TGN/BSR, TGN over Kane, and Doc over BSR.
Post by: ExLight on February 20, 2021, 07:08:14 PM
hansidhsnjdigkgWhy would I lynch Moot if I feel like you’re more likely to be scum?Because while approaching the game from the perspective that I'm scum you've lynched only town.
Coinflipped two people likely to be town, voted the scum only as OMGUS to self preserve, tried to “save” the seer after pushing his lynch despite realizing he was softing and then jumping out of it during EoD when it was unstoppable. As far as I reread up to D3 these are really scummy, not townie, mainly because the final vote counts give a false impression that you were always on the right side of history, when in reality you seemed to throw shade at multiple places without putting your vote where your mouth was. This got slightly better, but I can’t help but notice it was after you got put a bit under the spotlight. I don’t even think this is a case of TWTBW because you’re somehow going under the radar?
If Moot is scum, who do you think are his scumbuds? He wouldn’t be working by himself. Can you give me a list of 3 players you suspect to be his scumbuds and maybe show some links between them?
that’s low man don’t discredit me like that ; -;
Post by: Vroendal on February 20, 2021, 07:19:33 PM
It's okie Ex, you're all <3, just very tunneled right now, I need you to see that. Once you take the perspective that I'm town either now or from my lynch at EoD I expect the game to wrap up pretty quickly.Because while approaching the game from the perspective that I'm scum you've lynched only town.hansidhsnjdigkg
that’s low man don’t discredit me like that ; -;
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 20, 2021, 07:19:41 PM
It's a little ridiculous to jump out of a lynch to keep my name out of it if I pushed the lynch in the first place, the Michi unvote should not be a reason to suss me unless you think I was saving a scum-buddy, it's quite obvious my name was going to be attached to it either way. One could argue that scum may not have been pushing me hard to let town do all their dirty-work, which fits in certainly with the Sapph lynch so far, I expected at least 2 wolves in there. I was also being pushed by Doc if I recall, so if he's a wolf there's your scum push on me right there.ExLight PostOkay. So Ex you seem to be pretty experienced. If I may borrow from that, what about Vro is pinging you as scum? I have my suspicions but I'm not sure how to properly articulate what I'm thinking without sounding like an idiot.It’s mostly the stuff I mentioned in the recaps. Him jumping out of the wagon D1 can be interpreted as him not wanting to have his name attached to any lynches, scum not really trying to push his lynch D2, him jumping out of Sapph’s wagon despite pushing it after realizing the soft claims (and for some reason asking Anubv and only Anubv to jump out while if he wanted the lynch to be stopped he would’ve said it word by word in the thread). He also seems to like a ton of posts that without reading much into them, as some turned out to be cases into people that flipped Town, I feel like this also makes him look slightly bad. And at last I remember him putting a lot of energy into focusing more in defending himself and sheeping people overall rather than in scumhunting, which isn’t a good sign; although I‘m a bit hazy about this so I might have to reread Days 4-6.
He does have a few nice things going for him, which is expected considering he’s been interacting a ton, but that slot is by far the one that is making me lose my head.
I asked Anub because he was the likeliest to leave, and he was active in the thread at the time, it was very doubtful anyone else I asked would have left or even been there to leave, and I didn't see cozmik's unvote until it was already too late. I could have articulated it word for word, but I felt like the soft at this point was clear to everyone and you either believed Sapph's defense or you didn't, articulating it didn't seem like it would have much effect.
If I see a case I like in a post, I like the post. Multiple people can read into the same wrong mindsets. I think my like on the post you pointed out might have just been a misclick while scrolling though tbh. Maybe I am defending myself too much, but I've already laid out what I think, and I've voted and pushed the ones I find suspicious. My lowered levels of activity would be due to unforeseen things happening irl, as much as I hate using this excuse it has put a lot of pressure on me mentally and I have a lot less energy to devote to ISO'ing etc, defending myself is easier.
If you want to decide on my slot more feasibly, why not lynch Moot? My EoD voting pattern hasn't been that bad either, coinflip two null reads, lynch a wolf, try to save the Seer, try to save TGN, vote a townie that seemed suss imo, and vote Moot who I am almost certain is a wolf yesterday. I think I've been on the better side of the lynched for the most part, I think I actually look better than you in that case.
Vote - Wintermoot
So, can you explain the last part of this to me Vro? I'm not sure I understand the logic behind voting to lynch someone that, as far as I can tell, Ex isn't reading as scum for the sake of "info" if they're certain that they've got a scumread in you.
And Ex I may have misread things. Do you scumread Moot as well?
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 20, 2021, 07:24:02 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 20, 2021, 07:29:00 PM
So, can you explain the last part of this to me Vro? I'm not sure I understand the logic behind voting to lynch someone that, as far as I can tell, Ex isn't reading as scum for the sake of "info" if they're certain that they've got a scumread in you.I think Ex is of the perspective that I and Moot aren't both wolves, I think the only reason he isn't going after Moot is that he's certain that I'm scum based on his reads, if he removes his certainty of me based on Moot's voting patterns and that we're not w/w, it becomes better to lynch Moot on a basis of gathering info on a prospective more active town member without lynching them, and hopefully lynching a wolf in the process.
And Ex I may have misread things. Do you scumread Moot as well?
Post by: Vroendal on February 20, 2021, 08:28:44 PM
Ex and Doc have both built upon your suspicions from earlier in the game, yet now when it's to scum's benefit to keep me alive as a distraction, you go after Doc. It just seems odd that you seem to have left me by the wayside, you didn't even mention me yesterday.
Post by: ExLight on February 20, 2021, 08:38:00 PM
I was originally townreading Moot based on what I could remember, but upon reading his posts again I realized it was actually really scummy if anything.It's a little ridiculous to jump out of a lynch to keep my name out of it if I pushed the lynch in the first place, the Michi unvote should not be a reason to suss me unless you think I was saving a scum-buddy, it's quite obvious my name was going to be attached to it either way. One could argue that scum may not have been pushing me hard to let town do all their dirty-work, which fits in certainly with the Sapph lynch so far, I expected at least 2 wolves in there. I was also being pushed by Doc if I recall, so if he's a wolf there's your scum push on me right there.ExLight PostOkay. So Ex you seem to be pretty experienced. If I may borrow from that, what about Vro is pinging you as scum? I have my suspicions but I'm not sure how to properly articulate what I'm thinking without sounding like an idiot.It’s mostly the stuff I mentioned in the recaps. Him jumping out of the wagon D1 can be interpreted as him not wanting to have his name attached to any lynches, scum not really trying to push his lynch D2, him jumping out of Sapph’s wagon despite pushing it after realizing the soft claims (and for some reason asking Anubv and only Anubv to jump out while if he wanted the lynch to be stopped he would’ve said it word by word in the thread). He also seems to like a ton of posts that without reading much into them, as some turned out to be cases into people that flipped Town, I feel like this also makes him look slightly bad. And at last I remember him putting a lot of energy into focusing more in defending himself and sheeping people overall rather than in scumhunting, which isn’t a good sign; although I‘m a bit hazy about this so I might have to reread Days 4-6.
He does have a few nice things going for him, which is expected considering he’s been interacting a ton, but that slot is by far the one that is making me lose my head.
I asked Anub because he was the likeliest to leave, and he was active in the thread at the time, it was very doubtful anyone else I asked would have left or even been there to leave, and I didn't see cozmik's unvote until it was already too late. I could have articulated it word for word, but I felt like the soft at this point was clear to everyone and you either believed Sapph's defense or you didn't, articulating it didn't seem like it would have much effect.
If I see a case I like in a post, I like the post. Multiple people can read into the same wrong mindsets. I think my like on the post you pointed out might have just been a misclick while scrolling though tbh. Maybe I am defending myself too much, but I've already laid out what I think, and I've voted and pushed the ones I find suspicious. My lowered levels of activity would be due to unforeseen things happening irl, as much as I hate using this excuse it has put a lot of pressure on me mentally and I have a lot less energy to devote to ISO'ing etc, defending myself is easier.
If you want to decide on my slot more feasibly, why not lynch Moot? My EoD voting pattern hasn't been that bad either, coinflip two null reads, lynch a wolf, try to save the Seer, try to save TGN, vote a townie that seemed suss imo, and vote Moot who I am almost certain is a wolf yesterday. I think I've been on the better side of the lynched for the most part, I think I actually look better than you in that case.
Vote - Wintermoot
So, can you explain the last part of this to me Vro? I'm not sure I understand the logic behind voting to lynch someone that, as far as I can tell, Ex isn't reading as scum for the sake of "info" if they're certain that they've got a scumread in you.
And Ex I may have misread things. Do you scumread Moot as well?
So both Vro and Moot have done things that make me believe they both have a decent chance of being scum.
But there’s a major issue with that: I don’t think they can both be scum at the same time because Vro and Moot have been having really antagonistic positions towards each other, which makes me think only one of them truly is scum and the other one is just town being misinterpreted. From my reads Vro is the one more likely of being scum, and Moot of being the misinterpreted Town.
Post by: Doc on February 20, 2021, 09:03:03 PM
hansidhsnjdigkgI mean, that seems to be the majority of why people think I'm scum, because I keep being on mislynch wagons, then conveniently forgetting that every fucking wagon except one so far has been a mislynch when it comes time to examine themselves.
that’s low man don’t discredit me like that ; -;
As it stands, my scumreads right now have crystallized.
IMO it's Moot, Gerrick, and (unknown third party); my instinct was 'whoever the 4th vote on BSR was', but it was ExLight and despite some...disagreeable reasoning today, I continue to townread him. (Unknown Third Party) for me is essentially a coinflip on either Wischland or Michi; I favor Wischland a little more just on the basis of the early push on Michi but it could still go either way for me.
Still working on the vote analysis but it's been a bad couple days for my sanity. Been limited to Discord because I refuse to browse the forums on my phone. I'll try to get at least D2 and D3 out today, but for now since I didn't vote the last time round I'm gonna register one early.
Vote: Wintermoot
Post by: ExLight on February 20, 2021, 09:30:02 PM
And if Moot flips town who will the scumteam be? If you’re town you should be worried about that.hansidhsnjdigkgI mean, that seems to be the majority of why people think I'm scum, because I keep being on mislynch wagons, then conveniently forgetting that every fucking wagon except one so far has been a mislynch when it comes time to examine themselves.
that’s low man don’t discredit me like that ; -;
As it stands, my scumreads right now have crystallized.
IMO it's Moot, Gerrick, and (unknown third party); my instinct was 'whoever the 4th vote on BSR was', but it was ExLight and despite some...disagreeable reasoning today, I continue to townread him. (Unknown Third Party) for me is essentially a coinflip on either Wischland or Michi; I favor Wischland a little more just on the basis of the early push on Michi but it could still go either way for me.
Still working on the vote analysis but it's been a bad couple days for my sanity. Been limited to Discord because I refuse to browse the forums on my phone. I'll try to get at least D2 and D3 out today, but for now since I didn't vote the last time round I'm gonna register one early.
Vote: Wintermoot
Post by: Doc on February 20, 2021, 09:38:46 PM
and honest to god i don't much care if that sense of defeatism makes me look like scum or not because honestly it's been 7 days and our one good lynch looks increasingly like it happened entirely by accident, so if i wind up mislynched as a result of this post i'll just say 'well, thanks, now i don't need to worry about fucking up in WW anymore cause boy howdy has this sure been a shitshow for every member of town - bar the Defenders who are 100% MVP, seriously preventing 3 NKs (unless scum is fucking with us, but i'd really rather not believe in that possibility because if that's the case then i really would rather be dead and staring from the sidelines) is an absolute ledge moment - and it'll be a huge relief to just sit on the sidelines and watch the continual shitshow parade instead of actively participating anymore'
Post by: ExLight on February 20, 2021, 09:42:09 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 20, 2021, 11:01:09 PM
So, can you explain the last part of this to me Vro? I'm not sure I understand the logic behind voting to lynch someone that, as far as I can tell, Ex isn't reading as scum for the sake of "info" if they're certain that they've got a scumread in you.I think Ex is of the perspective that I and Moot aren't both wolves, I think the only reason he isn't going after Moot is that he's certain that I'm scum based on his reads, if he removes his certainty of me based on Moot's voting patterns and that we're not w/w, it becomes better to lynch Moot on a basis of gathering info on a prospective more active town member without lynching them, and hopefully lynching a wolf in the process.
And Ex I may have misread things. Do you scumread Moot as well?
So what information would be gleaned from lynching Moot. I mean as opposed to lynching you. You're both on the top of my list but I can sort of understand the argument behind ignoring a soft claim like that. After all any one of us could make a similar claim.
Post by: Vroendal on February 20, 2021, 11:17:18 PM
So what information would be gleaned from lynching Moot. I mean as opposed to lynching you. You're both on the top of my list but I can sort of understand the argument behind ignoring a soft claim like that. After all any one of us could make a similar claim.We would gain a greater suspicion of Wisch for voting BSR yesterday despite sussing Moot in her first reads-list and saying she felt better about BSR in her second reads-list, we would gain suspicion of Gerrick for putting Moot as his top town read D1 and voting BSR yesterday (I missed the read-list earlier, but I've been reading back), and Michi for defending Moot as looking like his town self at one point and tunneling BSR, and Doc for avoiding any interaction reads we could make by not voting yesterday. One could also argue he's bussing Moot today, but tbh I'm really liking his posts despite his suspicious voting patterns this game.
Post by: ExLight on February 20, 2021, 11:36:15 PM
Can we do Vro? I’ll bake a cake for everyone if we do and he flips scum. And if he flips town I bake a whole cake just for him.
Post by: Vroendal on February 20, 2021, 11:42:40 PM
Calm down buddy, we didn’t even lynch the person you’re pushing forward yet.How about no. :) Baking is hard, just don't lynch me and avoid the work of baking the cake and the discouragement of being wrong.
Can we do Vro? I’ll bake a cake for everyone if we do and he flips scum. And if he flips town I bake a whole cake just for him.
Who would my scum-buddies be if I'm scum anyway?
Post by: ExLight on February 21, 2021, 02:22:12 AM
i like bakingCalm down buddy, we didn’t even lynch the person you’re pushing forward yet.How about no. :) Baking is hard, just don't lynch me and avoid the work of baking the cake and the discouragement of being wrong.
Can we do Vro? I’ll bake a cake for everyone if we do and he flips scum. And if he flips town I bake a whole cake just for him.
Who would my scum-buddies be if I'm scum anyway?
it’s literally in the post i voted you
Post by: Vroendal on February 21, 2021, 02:44:43 AM
some shit just happened to me and i think it will affect me for a while sorry if i kinda disappearNoted.
i like baking
it’s literally in the post i voted you
Oh, nice. You should post some pic of what you bake sometimes.
Oh, my memory retention is bad. If I was w/w with Anub, it would have been the much better play to let the Seer be coinflipped because I would have known for certain that Sapph was the Seer, and just stayed quiet in the thread and let the coinflip happen. If I was w/w with Doc, it's certainly an odd thing to do for Doc to gun for my death from D2, what would the point of that be? I can't really see that working out long-term because people would be suspicious once TGN was also lynched and flipped town.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 21, 2021, 03:15:43 AM
I think Ex is of the perspective that I and Moot aren't both wolves, I think the only reason he isn't going after Moot is that he's certain that I'm scum based on his reads, if he removes his certainty of me based on Moot's voting patterns and that we're not w/w, it becomes better to lynch Moot on a basis of gathering info on a prospective more active town member without lynching them, and hopefully lynching a wolf in the process.Sure, let's vote off people to get more information until there aren't any townies left. I can think of three people who would love that. [=
Moot, if you're town why aren't you pushing me now?Because as I've said repeatedly at this point, I feel Doc is the most suspicious at this point, and that the case against him was and remains the most compelling. Why would I drop what I feel is the strongest case against someone to go after someone else? I made two posts in the last round, one emphasizing my suspicion of Doc and one with final thoughts when it looked like I was going to be killed. Besides an indirect reference to those pushing my killing over such ridiculous reasoning, you didn't factor much into either of those things.
Ex and Doc have both built upon your suspicions from earlier in the game, yet now when it's to scum's benefit to keep me alive as a distraction, you go after Doc. It just seems odd that you seem to have left me by the wayside, you didn't even mention me yesterday.
Speaking of ridiculous reasoning, at this point it looks like you're trying to find reasons to justify a vote for me and hope to find something that sticks after the Sapph one-sentence holy grail defense argument didn't convince enough people yesterday. You and Anubhav are pushing this way too hard and with way too little reasoning. It's too much like a few games back when Lau was pushing hard on Aragonn, it backfired, and Lau was exposed as the wolf. I think you're in the process of overplaying your hands, but please continue. Even if you succeed in killing me off, it'll let others know where they should focus their attention.
at that point, frankly, i'll have given up on solving the game and just start congratulating scum for being so absurdly fucking effective at hiding under the goddamn radar"If you vote Moot, you'll get all this information! And if he's town, oh well, guess we'll have to wave the white flag cause those wolves are just way too cunning."
and honest to god i don't much care if that sense of defeatism makes me look like scum or not because honestly it's been 7 days and our one good lynch looks increasingly like it happened entirely by accident, so if i wind up mislynched as a result of this post i'll just say 'well, thanks, now i don't need to worry about fucking up in WW anymore cause boy howdy has this sure been a shitshow for every member of town - bar the Defenders who are 100% MVP, seriously preventing 3 NKs (unless scum is fucking with us, but i'd really rather not believe in that possibility because if that's the case then i really would rather be dead and staring from the sidelines) is an absolute ledge moment - and it'll be a huge relief to just sit on the sidelines and watch the continual shitshow parade instead of actively participating anymore'
Speaking of where people should focus their attention, basically, if I come up town as I know I will, Doc refuses to provide any insights as to how that can be or where the rest of town can go from there. Perhaps there's a reason for that other than defeatism. Perhaps if I'm killed as town people should focus their attention on Vro, Anubhav, and yourself.
Post by: Vroendal on February 21, 2021, 04:03:49 AM
I need to consider a moment.
Most recent scum lists (some have been formed from extra Null reads closest to scum leans, and some have BSR removed from them) -
Red's: Doc, Vro, Gerrick
Vro's: Wisch, Moot, ?
Gerrick's: cozmik, Michi, Moot
Anubhav's: Moot, Ex, Wisch
Wisch's: cozmik, Vro, Moot
Michi's: Doc/ExLight/Gerrick/Red Mones/Wintermoot
Moot's: Doc, Vro, Anubhav
Nyght's: Vro, Moot, ?
Doc's: Moot, Gerrick, Wisch/Michi
Legacy's: Moot, Doc, Gerrick
Ex's: Vro, Anubhav, Doc
cozmik's: Gerrick, Ex, ?
Numbered order of how many players have recently been sussed in a scum list based on above -
Moot - 8
Vro - 5
Doc - 5
Gerrick - 5
Ex - 3
Wisch - 3
Anubhav - 2
cozmik - 2
Michi - 2
Those who haven't been sussed -
Red, Nyght, Legacy
If I have made a mistake or you would like to update this please say something.
Post by: Vroendal on February 21, 2021, 04:06:57 AM
List of players organized by how many susses are put on them in most recent scum lists -Numbered order of how many players have recently been sussed in a scum list based on above -
Post by: Doc on February 21, 2021, 06:01:32 AM
"If you vote Moot, you'll get all this information! And if he's town, oh well, guess we'll have to wave the white flag cause those wolves are just way too cunning."Eh, I was mostly saying 'I think we should lynch you, but if we collectively decide not to and lynch me instead, honestly I'm good with it' because I was in a pretty vile mood this afternoon and didn't care about the game anymore.
Then I took a nap!
Now I feel a lot better.
The moral of the story is not to post in WW when you're in a bad mood, I guess. Which is kind of a weak moral.
Post by: Wischland on February 21, 2021, 06:14:28 AM
Right now I'd be ok with a Moot, Anub, or Vro lynch, though I haven't decided which I'd prefer most. Moot should make sense based on the my list from last day phase plus I do think there's information we could gain from it. Anub is definitely a change from last day phase, but I'm really weirded out by the sudden aggressiveness and confidence. It seems super out of place. Vro is looking more and more scummy, probably due to Ex's argument, which I hold in high regard, and that they seem to be acting more offensively by pushing others as a large part of their defense, which strikes me as different from last game.
Post by: Vroendal on February 21, 2021, 06:29:07 AM
Wisch's Post
In regards to my vote on BSR last day phase, I'd like to point out that I was the second person to vote for BSR, at a time when Wintermoot had 4 votes, after which I went offline till the end of the day phase. How is it my fault that there was a sudden wagon shift to BSR? It's not as if I made a particularly persuasive post in an attempt to convince people it was BSR, since I didn't have any particularly strong suspicions of anyone. Plus, Wintermoot wasn't particularly high on my reads list either, so there's that.
Right now I'd be ok with a Moot, Anub, or Vro lynch, though I haven't decided which I'd prefer most. Moot should make sense based on the my list from last day phase plus I do think there's information we could gain from it. Anub is definitely a change from last day phase, but I'm really weirded out by the sudden aggressiveness and confidence. It seems super out of place. Vro is looking more and more scummy, probably due to Ex's argument, which I hold in high regard, and that they seem to be acting more offensively by pushing others as a large part of their defense, which strikes me as different from last game.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 21, 2021, 06:41:39 AM
In regards to my vote on BSR last day phase, I'd like to point out that I was the second person to vote for BSR, at a time when Wintermoot had 4 votes, after which I went offline till the end of the day phase. How is it my fault that there was a sudden wagon shift to BSR? It's not as if I made a particularly persuasive post in an attempt to convince people it was BSR, since I didn't have any particularly strong suspicions of anyone. Plus, Wintermoot wasn't particularly high on my reads list either, so there's that.
Right now I'd be ok with a Moot, Anub, or Vro lynch, though I haven't decided which I'd prefer most. Moot should make sense based on the my list from last day phase plus I do think there's information we could gain from it. Anub is definitely a change from last day phase, but I'm really weirded out by the sudden aggressiveness and confidence. It seems super out of place. Vro is looking more and more scummy, probably due to Ex's argument, which I hold in high regard, and that they seem to be acting more offensively by pushing others as a large part of their defense, which strikes me as different from last game.
As of confidence and aggressiveness , I would say the little experience i have collected might have made me excited(it has tbh) and I think I can't be just the one who will go unheard and unseen , as for one of my earlier post which HD questioned about , and it went under-the-radar post , whereas I wanted it to be a post to get some fishes out of water(scum out of their lair). I don't want that to happen again .
U can see my aggressiveness and confidence as a tool to get some attention , and when u get attention , u might get to know who is who .
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 21, 2021, 01:37:51 PM
Stay on TGN, if no active support appears, I'll lynch him to save Sapph and for info and accept that Doc will attack me tomorrow should I survive.You...realize that if TGN flips townie, that because I've made crystal clear that I consider the two of you linked at this point that I would accordingly consider you townie?
So the only reason you'd need to 'accept' that I'd attack you if the TGN lynch goes off is if you're both scum?
Okay so I think this is the post of Doc's that I don't understand / disagree with the most and I'd like you ask Doc to expand on this please.
On D2, you made points towards you scumreading both Vro and TGN independently and then, after D2 votings, you said that you believed that Vro and TGN's refusal to vote each other made then a likely pair. This is all fine, I don't necessarily agree with your reasoning but I can at least follow your thought process.
This post confuses me. How can you be sure that one of Vro/TGN being town means that the other is town? I understand that you think the opposite is true (one being wolf making the other wolf) here but you independently scumread both before you believed their interactions to be wolfy and I don't see anything that you've written that suggests a t/w pairing would be impossible.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 21, 2021, 01:52:45 PM
Unvote
I need to consider a moment.
Most recent scum lists (some have been formed from extra Null reads closest to scum leans, and some have BSR removed from them) -
Red's: Doc, Vro, Gerrick
Vro's: Wisch, Moot, ?
Gerrick's: cozmik, Michi, Moot
Anubhav's: Moot, Ex, Wisch
Wisch's: cozmik, Vro, Moot
Michi's: Doc/ExLight/Gerrick/Red Mones/Wintermoot
Moot's: Doc, Vro, Anubhav
Nyght's: Vro, Moot, ?
Doc's: Moot, Gerrick, Wisch/Michi
Legacy's: Moot, Doc, Gerrick
Ex's: Vro, Anubhav, Doc
cozmik's: Gerrick, Ex, ?
Numbered order of how many players have recently been sussed in a scum list based on above -
Moot - 8
Vro - 5
Doc - 5
Gerrick - 5
Ex - 3
Wisch - 3
Anubhav - 2
cozmik - 2
Michi - 2
Those who haven't been sussed -
Red, Nyght, Legacy
If I have made a mistake or you would like to update this please say something.
I think there are some important things we can take from this.
We have 12 players left and 8 of them suss Wintermoot. The players who don't suss moot on that list are himself, ExLight (who has intermittently being scumreading moot), Red Mones and cozmikrae. This makes it seem likely that Moot has 1-2 wolves minimum scumreading him (especially looking at who doesn't have him as scum) regardless of if he himself is a wolf or not. It's really weird that so many people have widely scumread him over the past few days, then, and none of his wagons have been successful. Suggests that if moot is town, wolves are keeping him alive on purpose and if moot is a wolf, wolves are probably distancing from him by SRing him but haven't been actually voting him.
If Moot is town, the reason why the majority (if not all 3) wolves are sussing him is probably to detract from one of the other major targets (Vro, Gerrick or Doc). It's possibly worth noting that Moot scumreads two of those three people.
I get the impression that there is almost certainly a wolf at 3 or below on the list (but I don't think we should lynch here today, I would much rather just go from the person who we think is most likely to flip red).
My question for everyone who wants to answer: is Moot a townsperson who is being pushed as an easy mislynch by the wolves or is he a semi-caught wolf with his buddies trying to distance from him post-flip by scumreading him (but seemingly not pushing)?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 21, 2021, 01:54:21 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 21, 2021, 01:57:10 PM
Post by: Michi on February 21, 2021, 02:01:47 PM
Unvote
I need to consider a moment.
Most recent scum lists (some have been formed from extra Null reads closest to scum leans, and some have BSR removed from them) -
Red's: Doc, Vro, Gerrick
Vro's: Wisch, Moot, ?
Gerrick's: cozmik, Michi, Moot
Anubhav's: Moot, Ex, Wisch
Wisch's: cozmik, Vro, Moot
Michi's: Doc/ExLight/Gerrick/Red Mones/Wintermoot
Moot's: Doc, Vro, Anubhav
Nyght's: Vro, Moot, ?
Doc's: Moot, Gerrick, Wisch/Michi
Legacy's: Moot, Doc, Gerrick
Ex's: Vro, Anubhav, Doc
cozmik's: Gerrick, Ex, ?
Numbered order of how many players have recently been sussed in a scum list based on above -
Moot - 8
Vro - 5
Doc - 5
Gerrick - 5
Ex - 3
Wisch - 3
Anubhav - 2
cozmik - 2
Michi - 2
Those who haven't been sussed -
Red, Nyght, Legacy
If I have made a mistake or you would like to update this please say something.
Curious, I don't remember making a reads list...where are you pulling mine from?
And on top of that, I even said that I said Moot is playing like I see him play town, so he's not even on my list of potential scum.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 21, 2021, 02:04:38 PM
Where are you at in terms of reads right now, Michi?Unvote
I need to consider a moment.
Most recent scum lists (some have been formed from extra Null reads closest to scum leans, and some have BSR removed from them) -
Red's: Doc, Vro, Gerrick
Vro's: Wisch, Moot, ?
Gerrick's: cozmik, Michi, Moot
Anubhav's: Moot, Ex, Wisch
Wisch's: cozmik, Vro, Moot
Michi's: Doc/ExLight/Gerrick/Red Mones/Wintermoot
Moot's: Doc, Vro, Anubhav
Nyght's: Vro, Moot, ?
Doc's: Moot, Gerrick, Wisch/Michi
Legacy's: Moot, Doc, Gerrick
Ex's: Vro, Anubhav, Doc
cozmik's: Gerrick, Ex, ?
Numbered order of how many players have recently been sussed in a scum list based on above -
Moot - 8
Vro - 5
Doc - 5
Gerrick - 5
Ex - 3
Wisch - 3
Anubhav - 2
cozmik - 2
Michi - 2
Those who haven't been sussed -
Red, Nyght, Legacy
If I have made a mistake or you would like to update this please say something.
Curious, I don't remember making a reads list...where are you pulling mine from?
And on top of that, I even said that I said Moot is playing like I see him play town, so he's not even on my list of potential scum.
Post by: Michi on February 21, 2021, 02:09:50 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 21, 2021, 02:16:18 PM
In all honesty, I'm not sure. I've never been great with reads in the first place since. Unless the actions are blatant, everyone usually comes off as equally null to me...especially since I not been 100% keeping up with every little detail. Like, I usually want to hear more from people like Wisch or Gerrick or Coz, but they're not necessarily "scum-reads" for me.What about the opposite side, are there any people you read as town right now, even if they aren't strong ones? Honestly I always find looking for town reads first easier anyway, a lot of my SRs are partial from PoE.
Post by: Michi on February 21, 2021, 02:25:13 PM
Everyone else I'm just straight up unsure of since they give off mixed vibes, or because they're getting other town clears and I'm not sure how to really process them. Or the mixed vibes thing but I want to hear more because I'm genuinely curious to them specifically.
But since I apparently have to vote every phase now, I'll throw one out for Wisch. You're one that genuinely makes me curious since your playstyle for two games now is hard to decipher.
Vote: Wischland
So please convince me as to why you're not scum.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 21, 2021, 03:08:10 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 21, 2021, 03:45:37 PM
Curious, I don't remember making a reads list...where are you pulling mine from?You hadn't made a reads-list recently that I've seen, but for the sake of including something from everyone, I made your scum list from this quote, which was referring to the TGN wagon and HD's scum-reads, I didn't notice anything in HD's scum-reads myself, but I'm going to be re-reading today.
And on top of that, I even said that I said Moot is playing like I see him play town, so he's not even on my list of potential scum.
I'd also run them against the people on the last bandwagon. With a wagon that heavy, I'm willing to believe at least one scum is on there.That's why your scum-list looks a lil' different from the rest.
Post by: Vroendal on February 21, 2021, 04:23:17 PM
Wischland and @Wintermoot, if I may I would like to see you interact.
Please either ask a question or strategize with the other if you're really town-reading them.
I would want to see more than a 3-sentence post, but you don't need a wall of course if you don't have a lot to say.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 21, 2021, 04:45:42 PM
Vote: Doc
@Wischland and @Gerrick, andNo offense, but demanding that other players interact with each other for your sake is just kinda weird. If I had cause to mention or interact with Wischland I would certainly do so, but I do not. I don't have an opinion on her either way at this point, and have no thoughts about her to contribute.
Wischland and @Wintermoot, if I may I would like to see you interact.
Please either ask a question or strategize with the other if you're really town-reading them.
I would want to see more than a 3-sentence post, but you don't need a wall of course if you don't have a lot to say.
Post by: ExLight on February 21, 2021, 06:35:17 PM
I feel like votes are scattered
It’s easier for scum to manipulate lynches if this happen
I’d suggest people to try pairing the people they’re scumreading with other players, a consider voting them if other people are doing so; they’re part of a team after all.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 21, 2021, 07:00:21 PM
Votes
ExLight > Vroendal (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157767#msg157767)
Vroendal > Wintermoot (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157780#msg157780)
Doc > Wintermoot (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157800#msg157800)
Vroendal > Unvote (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157818#msg157818)
Michi > Wischland (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157836#msg157836)
Wintermoot > Doc (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157841#msg157841)
Vote Counts
Vroendal: ExLight (1)
Wintermoot: Doc (1)
Wischland: Michi (1)
Doc: Wintermoot (1)
No Votes
Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Wischland, NyghtOwl, Legacy of Smiles, cozmikrae
Looks like we're in for another last-minute crash of votes.
Post by: ExLight on February 21, 2021, 07:10:56 PM
I'm taking a break from other work, so I can do that. :)I’m baking a cake just for you regardless because of that
Votes
ExLight > Vroendal (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157767#msg157767)
Vroendal > Wintermoot (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157780#msg157780)
Doc > Wintermoot (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157800#msg157800)
Vroendal > Unvote (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157818#msg157818)
Michi > Wischland (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157836#msg157836)
Wintermoot > Doc (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg157841#msg157841)
Vote Counts
Vroendal: ExLight (1)
Wintermoot: Doc (1)
Wischland: Michi (1)
Doc: Wintermoot (1)
No Votes
Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Wischland, NyghtOwl, Legacy of Smiles, cozmikrae
Looks like we're in for another last-minute crash of votes.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 21, 2021, 07:12:13 PM
I’m baking a cake just for you regardless because of thatWhy thank you! I like cake. ^-^
Post by: ExLight on February 21, 2021, 07:13:52 PM
but yea, it’s usually at EoD that most stuff happens
Post by: Wintermoot on February 21, 2021, 07:17:56 PM
I'm starting to wonder if for some it's a strategy to make things happen at the very end so there's little time for people to react.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 21, 2021, 07:21:52 PM
I have to admit, I find that odd at this point. I could understand it earlier in the game when it was such a struggle to keep up and people were just doing their best to get votes in, but the pace has been much easier to keep up with for the last day or two, and I have a hard time believing that half a dozen people are too busy to be involved at this pace for multiple days in a row.I think it's also worth noting that EoD is probably a bad time for EU timezones (5am for me) so leaving discussion until EoD leads to things like the Sapphiron lynch happening.
I'm starting to wonder if for some it's a strategy to make things happen at the very end so there's little time for people to react.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 21, 2021, 07:23:09 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 21, 2021, 07:35:32 PM
Vote: Vroendal
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 21, 2021, 07:38:19 PM
I have to admit, I find that odd at this point. I could understand it earlier in the game when it was such a struggle to keep up and people were just doing their best to get votes in, but the pace has been much easier to keep up with for the last day or two, and I have a hard time believing that half a dozen people are too busy to be involved at this pace for multiple days in a row.
I'm starting to wonder if for some it's a strategy to make things happen at the very end so there's little time for people to react.
That's not very fair at all. I have a full time job and very little time with my fiance when I'm not at work. So it is a struggle to keep up with things. I'm doing my best but days like today where I have the day off are really my only time to try and catch up. That's two or three days worth of forum posts to comb through.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 21, 2021, 08:07:53 PM
Excluding Vro and myself, there are ten possible teammates (of which two would be wolves). Pretty confident he's not with Moot, ExLight or cozmik. Leaning away from him being with Doc because of the "why are you resisting the TGN lynch?" post. I don't think wolf-Nyght busses here, possibly if Vro is lynchproof but that's about it. Probably not Michi, I don't think wolf-Vro draws attention between the two the way he did on D1 when he could have bussed for cred. For me, that leaves two of Gerrick/Anubhav/Wischland/Red Mones as the other wolves.
People who are pushing Vro, can you point out where my logic is wrong here or tell me please who you think Vro's most likely scumbuddies in that list would be?
Post by: Wintermoot on February 21, 2021, 08:26:24 PM
That's not very fair at all. I have a full time job and very little time with my fiance when I'm not at work. So it is a struggle to keep up with things. I'm doing my best but days like today where I have the day off are really my only time to try and catch up. That's two or three days worth of forum posts to comb through.That's why I said that I find it hard to believe that half a dozen people cumulatively are in that situation, rather than any particular individual. I'm sure there are people that are legitimately busy.
Post by: ExLight on February 21, 2021, 08:40:57 PM
Like, who would Vro actually be a wolf with though?I’m sure Doc is a strong option of scumbuddy if Vro flips. Doc saying “why are you running away from TNG” actually gives Vro an excuse to vote and mislynch a townie while diluting the responsibility; also with TGN’s flip Doc has been trying to convince people that it clears Vro, which is not the case at all.
Excluding Vro and myself, there are ten possible teammates (of which two would be wolves). Pretty confident he's not with Moot, ExLight or cozmik. Leaning away from him being with Doc because of the "why are you resisting the TGN lynch?" post. I don't think wolf-Nyght busses here, possibly if Vro is lynchproof but that's about it. Probably not Michi, I don't think wolf-Vro draws attention between the two the way he did on D1 when he could have bussed for cred. For me, that leaves two of Gerrick/Anubhav/Wischland/Red Mones as the other wolves.
People who are pushing Vro, can you point out where my logic is wrong here or tell me please who you think Vro's most likely scumbuddies in that list would be?
Third scum would likely be among Gerrick/Wisch/Anubv/Nyghts/Coz. Since Anubv has some weird interactions with Vro I feel like they’re a decent candidate for third scum if Vro flips. Gerrick and Wisch are kinda nulls to me so they fall a bit right behind. My only issue with this is that if this is the team they’re kinda powerwolfing openly here, which is a bit unlikely; so it’s a bit hard to just name someone from the top of my head without recheck interactions.
If we assume at least one scum has been distancing HARD I can think of either Moot based on him distancing Vro or Red distancing Silver. But I think scum would be playing really safe throughout the game since they took a loss really early on and considering they’ve been getting blocked left and right.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 21, 2021, 08:51:49 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 21, 2021, 10:12:42 PM
I think ... I vote Wisch here, to be honest. I'm not reading scum from her posting tone, but I'm getting the impression that she's been playing it safe. She definitely feels like she's been under the radar for most of the game, and that alone really worries me. I could see a Gerrick/Wisch team based on this -
Also kinda sus of Gerrick. On the one hand, his vote shortly after Sapph's on BSR may be an indication that the two were working together as part of a seer army. But Gerrick also didn't do anything to try and save Sapph later when just one vote on TGN would have done the trick. Was he offline at the time? Sorta a weird disparity, so I'm not really sure what's going on there.And then switching to this -
Also not really sure where those votes on Gerrick are coming from. Maybe it's just cause I have trouble reading him, but there's nothing that's really stuck out either way about him to me. Perhaps someone could explain that for me? Right now it really seems like people are digging up old dirt rather than looking through the events of the last day phase. While looking at old clues is important, it kinda feels like discussion is being directed away from recent events.
This post also kind of pings me now after looking at it and knowing TGN's alignment.
So I've been reading through all of Ruguo's posts again to try and get a better idea of things and this really jumped out at me in light of recent discussion, so I wanted to note my thoughts before they faded into brain mush. I was kinda hesitant in regards to Ruguo training/helping a scum TGN in the open to get town cred, because I thought Ruguo pressured TGN way more than I would expect if they were scumbuds, even to the point of starting a bandwagon. But the fact that Ruguo brings up their helping of new players here as part of their defense makes me think it may have been a much more coordinated effort to get town cred. That would also explain the sudden (in my opinion) drop of their TGN vote after TGN only kinda fulfilled their request for more logical arguments to instead vote Vro, possibly to head off any bandwagon that Mel could create by voting for Ruguo. Obviously the bandwagon gained traction very quickly and ended up on Ruguo anyway, but that doesn't seem to be what the scum expected/wanted at all.
I don't know if I'll be able to check back in before EoD tonight, so for the above reasons, I'm going to:
Vote: TGN
If I do make it back, I'll try to poke through everything with Sapph to see if I think that has more weight, but at the moment TGN seems like a better bet to me.
I went into this day expecting to vote Moot, but honestly I think his defense sounds like it's coming from a town perspective, at least to me. I honestly don't know about Gerrick, I suppose the results of a Wisch lynch could perhaps guide us a little more, but beyond any links I think Wisch has been lying low a little too much now that I think about it, in this situation it's the optimal ploy for a wolf to do if town are going to eat each other based on lynching the Seer with only town.
Vote - Wischland
Post by: cozmikrae on February 21, 2021, 10:37:27 PM
I have to admit, I find that odd at this point. I could understand it earlier in the game when it was such a struggle to keep up and people were just doing their best to get votes in, but the pace has been much easier to keep up with for the last day or two, and I have a hard time believing that half a dozen people are too busy to be involved at this pace for multiple days in a row.
I'm starting to wonder if for some it's a strategy to make things happen at the very end so there's little time for people to react.
For me, there’s a general sense of fatigue and discouragement from both the pace and our complete inability to lynch an actual wolf. Also IRL busyness giving me an excuse not to check the game until I know eod is approaching.
Got to admit that I'm worried that Gerrick/Nyght/Wisch fit on just about any scumteam because of a very limited number of meaningful interactions I see between them and living players. I think there's probably a wolf or wolves in this trio in the order of suspicion Gerrick>Wisch>Nyght.
Not sure I agree with Nyght. I’m null on Wisch. Gerrick though...
I’m nearly convinced they’re scum. One thing that pinged me was when HumanDawn got killed overnight, Gerrick voted for me so fast the next morning. The wagon didn’t pick up. But I felt like that was an attempt to keep the sus on me after the Sapph fiasco.
The more I read of cozmik, the more town she feels to me honestly.
It’s cuz I am town. :) :)
Post by: cozmikrae on February 21, 2021, 10:38:31 PM
In case I don’t get back to the game in time for eod, this is my top scum read.
Post by: ExLight on February 21, 2021, 11:59:50 PM
we need to concentrate votes :aaaAAA:
if all wagons have 1 votes all it takes is one scum to move their vote
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 12:00:50 AM
I’ll make the updated votecount soon but I really want either a Vro or Doc lynch today
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 22, 2021, 12:22:52 AM
Vote Count:
Vroendal - 2 ExLight, NyghtOwl
Wischland - 2 Michi, Vroendal
Doc - 1 Wintermoot
Gerrick - 1 cozmikrae
Wintermoot - 1 Doc
Not Voting:
Red Mones, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Wischland, Legacy of Smiles
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 22, 2021, 12:26:48 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 22, 2021, 12:28:19 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 22, 2021, 12:33:43 AM
ExLight, I think we agree on Doc and I think he's a much better alternative to a Vro wagon.
Vote: Doc
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 22, 2021, 12:35:23 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 12:36:17 AM
Going to have to dip for the night but please keep talking and don't make a bunch of panicked last minute votes that will inevitably lynch a town.wait noo
vote Vro, please
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 12:37:57 AM
aaaa
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 12:39:57 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 12:40:44 AM
Vote: Doc
I really want Vro hshsbejt
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 01:18:09 AM
if my random numbers mean anything
the percentage thing actually works nice to put thoughts in order
if anyone else wanna try it’s kinda fun wink wink
Post by: Doc on February 22, 2021, 01:34:12 AM
Vote: Wischland
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 02:03:32 AM
Stop trying to self-preserve, if someone from town is being scumread by half of the players they should realize they’ll end up being mislynch bait in London which just guarantees Town’s losses. We have to force scum’s hand to kill the null reads by lynching top scums since the top townleans have a high chance of getting protected.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 02:07:06 AM
@cozmikrae @Red Mones @Gerrick
It’s literally impossible for all of you to be scum, can the Town PLEASE put its vote in either the Doc or Vro wagon?
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 02:07:47 AM
sorry autocorrect
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 02:27:44 AM
I’ll probably not be around EoD because it’s at like 3am here and I’m destroyed physically and mentally from irl stuff. But please stop sticking with low info Lynches. Kane and BSR already gave little to nothing, so stop pushing for Gerrick and Wisch for now because even if they flip I doubt that will give us anything anywhere as close than some other lynches.
If they’re both scum and I’m completely off I can already see Minish and HumanDawn talking shit about me in GY msjdifnfndns
but I really doubt they are. In any case, Moot, Doc, and Vro are the ones at the bottom of the list of most people, with Moot clearly being pushed a lot easier than Vro and Doc probably due to scum intervention because Town had been more and more inactive.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 02:49:58 AM
I'm not asking this rhetorically, I'm actually asking.
Does Silv's statement of Doc not being particularly scummy in the D2 vote fiasco and subsequent vote of me in the same post tell you anything about our alignments?
Does Silv and Wisch openly buddy first by agreeing with my push against Michi then by Silv encouraging Wisch in their read list?
Post by: Red Mones on February 22, 2021, 02:58:17 AM
Vote: Doc
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 02:59:32 AM
@ExLight, does Silv vote fellow scum Doc first thing D1?Scum actually votes scumbuds a lot during RVS, so I don’t see why Silver wouldn’t do that. It’s NAI if not slightly scummy.
I'm not asking this rhetorically, I'm actually asking.
Does Silv's statement of Doc not being particularly scummy in the D2 vote fiasco and subsequent vote of me in the same post tell you anything about our alignments?
Does Silv and Wisch openly buddy first by agreeing with my push against Michi then by Silv encouraging Wisch in their read list?
Silver voted you because you were the only other viable wagon, if you’re both scum it’s literally the only play that doesn’t make it blatantly obvious you’re both scum, and by voting each other you both distance yourselves. Scum Silver would’ve most likely voted you regardless of your alignment, and he could’ve even had voted somewhere else to make people think you’re scum he tried to protect upon his flip. So yes, this also hints to him being your scumbuddy to me. And I don’t see why Silver saying Doc didn’t seem particularly scummy has any value, scum will say whatever; I don’t remember them truly pushing each other and that tells me more than the words of a liar.
I’m not sure what you mean by Silver and Wisch, am I missing something? But no, I don’t think scum decides to powerwolf D1 because Town is insanely likely to mislynch D1 specially considering their numbers. They have more reason to do that when Town’s activity starts dropping, and as they kill the active players. Really no fair play smh, aim for the inactive ones you coward wolves.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 22, 2021, 03:08:08 AM
Can't state a reason now , got school in half an hour :wave:
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 03:09:08 AM
Vote:Wischlanddid you even read anything I wrote last page Dx
Can't state a reason now , got school in half an hour :wave:
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 03:13:10 AM
did no one do any kind of recap or ISO or anything
this isn’t a game of gut feeling and chance
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 03:15:04 AM
Post by: Doc on February 22, 2021, 03:15:29 AM
Stop trying to self-preserve, if someone from town is being scumread by half of the players they should realize they’ll end up being mislynch bait in London which just guarantees Town’s losses.Wow, fuck, you're so right.
Well, you've clearly convinced me to vote for myself.
Get off that high horse, you're one of the people who was saying 'as town you serve town best by keeping your own ass alive'. If you want me lynched so bad at least don't come crying to me about how I need to avoid self-preservation.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 03:24:06 AM
Lol, I never said that. I literally lynched TGN as a policy lynch saying that then being in -Lo would be catastrophic. This whole “if you’re town fight to the end!!” idea is ridiculous isn’t about not understanding when they have to go, it’s about constantly providing thoughts and information Town can work with instead of just crossing arms and going “guess I’ll die”. Scum can put both acts of panicky town and “guess I’ll die”, self-defending doesn’t mean shit about your alignment, and doing this just for the sake of doing it helps scum coordinate around it and if you’re town leaving you around as lynch bait.Stop trying to self-preserve, if someone from town is being scumread by half of the players they should realize they’ll end up being mislynch bait in London which just guarantees Town’s losses.Wow, fuck, you're so right.
Well, you've clearly convinced me to vote for myself.
Get off that high horse, you're one of the people who was saying 'as town you serve town best by keeping your own ass alive'. If you want me lynched so bad at least don't come crying to me about how I need to avoid self-preservation.
Like, are you really going to ignore the rest of the message? What are you going to do when if it comes down to -Lo and you have to convince 4 town (if all 3 scum still alive) for none of them to place a single fucking vote on you?
People have already pointed out you have been in literally all mislynches and absent from the only lynch, no matter your alignment this is usually enough to convince most people you’re scum.
I’m not asking you to vote yourself, but I do not think you’re Town. As someone who talked a ton of game philosophy you should’ve realized that a ton of what’s going on is stuff you discussed before, like wagonomics and coordinating.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 03:30:08 AM
Vro, please place your vote on Doc and keep it there.Are you asking me as an appeal to the possibly town-sided Vro, or because you want everything to fall into place and the closeness of the wagons is messing you up?
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 03:31:27 AM
*ridiculous. This isn’t
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 03:35:35 AM
None of these.Vro, please place your vote on Doc and keep it there.Are you asking me as an appeal to the possibly town-sided Vro, or because you want everything to fall into place and the closeness of the wagons is messing you up?
I think you’re significantly more likely to be scum than Doc but I have how you both have been patting each other on the back without even considering the possibility of pocketing despite you both having significantly scummy behaviors.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 03:39:37 AM
I should turn autocorrect off this thing sucks
Post by: Doc on February 22, 2021, 03:42:40 AM
Unvote
I explicitly accept the inactivity lynch.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 03:43:04 AM
I'm not patting him on the back at all, at least from my perspective, and I don't see where he's patting me on the back. I have no clear thoughts about his alignment, he is thoroughly a Null for me, you're lynching him partly because you think his flip will give info on me, but I have no such thoughts because he is in fact not connected to me at all. The things I can see against him is Moot's argument, and Silv's interactions with him, and I'm not quite convinced enough by those yet, I'm pondering. If you want me to switch, expound upon Moot's argument or detail a scum connection between him and Silv.None of these.Vro, please place your vote on Doc and keep it there.Are you asking me as an appeal to the possibly town-sided Vro, or because you want everything to fall into place and the closeness of the wagons is messing you up?
I think you’re significantly more likely to be scum than Doc but I have how you both have been patting each other on the back without even considering the possibility of pocketing despite you both having significantly scummy behaviors.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 03:46:05 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 03:46:47 AM
He’s been literally actively defending you saying you’re cleared because TGN flipped town and I have not seen you push him once despite you saying he’s your null.I mean, honestly, whatever, I'm like 90% checked out of this game anyway at this point and the only reason I keep checking up on this tonight is that I didn't really want to get lynched. But I've kind of hated how badly I've played this game so far so I might as well give up and log off for the night, and the only way I'm really gonna be able to do that is checking out entirely.C’mon I literally just said this isn’t about crossing arms and waiting for a lynch.
Unvote
I explicitly accept the inactivity lynch.I'm not patting him on the back at all, at least from my perspective, and I don't see where he's patting me on the back. I have no clear thoughts about his alignment, he is thoroughly a Null for me, you're lynching him partly because you think his flip will give info on me, but I have no such thoughts because he is in fact not connected to me at all. The things I can see against him is Moot's argument, and Silv's interactions with him, and I'm not quite convinced enough by those yet, I'm pondering. If you want me to switch, expound upon Moot's argument or detail a scum connection between him and Silv.None of these.Vro, please place your vote on Doc and keep it there.Are you asking me as an appeal to the possibly town-sided Vro, or because you want everything to fall into place and the closeness of the wagons is messing you up?
I think you’re significantly more likely to be scum than Doc but I have how you both have been patting each other on the back without even considering the possibility of pocketing despite you both having significantly scummy behaviors.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 03:47:41 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 03:49:40 AM
I mean, honestly, whatever, I'm like 90% checked out of this game anyway at this point and the only reason I keep checking up on this tonight is that I didn't really want to get lynched. But I've kind of hated how badly I've played this game so far so I might as well give up and log off for the night, and the only way I'm really gonna be able to do that is checking out entirely.Do you even realize that if you just want to self preserve you had better odds voting Vro because I’d’ve changed my vote to him?
Unvote
I explicitly accept the inactivity lynch.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 03:56:15 AM
He’s been literally actively defending you saying you’re cleared because TGN flipped town and I have not seen you push him once despite you saying he’s your null.Yeah, you're right that's my bad, I've been too focused on players actively pushing me and my own actual scum leans. I didn't really have a push to make because I'm still trying to ponder Moot's reasoning to either agree or disagree with it.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 04:05:32 AM
I’ll still want Vro’s head on a silver tray no matter what Doc flips though.
Post by: Doc on February 22, 2021, 04:06:40 AM
He’s been literally actively defending you saying you’re cleared because TGN flipped town and I have not seen you push him once despite you saying he’s your null.I haven't been actively defending him. I haven't declared him cleared. All I've done is observe I think it's more likely that he's in the same boat as TGN, whatever boat that might be, on the basis of their mutual unwillingness to lynch each other when they were both the two major wagons mid-D2, because if Vro was scum, he'd have leapt onto TGN's wagon and drove that mislynch into the ground.
Don't mischaracterize the one argument I've been proud of this game just cause you think I'm sus.
Do you even realize that if you just want to self preserve you had better odds voting Vro because I’d’ve changed my vote to him?Sure. But I think the net result of doing so is likelier to be identical to the result of self-voting than the result of voting for Wischland, which is lynching town.
Doc, please no. :( It's like a few hours left, with what you have left in the game try to have funI mean, honestly, I'm just not having fun with the game anymore. I'm beating myself up about making shitty fucking arguments and shitty fucking calls, and trying to compensate for it with a stupidly long analytical post that led me to conclude fucking nothing and realizing that if I posted it it'd just make people go 'AHA IT'S CLASSIC SCUMDOC, LOTS OF DATA AND NO INFORMATION', but not posting it also just would make people go 'AHA, CLASSIC SCUM MOVE, PROMISE INFORMATION AND NEVER DELIVER', and getting caught between a rock and a hard place is frankly never a fun time.
Look, I'm not finna make anyone guilty, I'm just not enjoying myself in this game anymore, it's not anyone else's fault but mine, and I don't wanna drag down the game just cause I feel shitty so I'd rather just let myself get ILed and call it even-stevens.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 04:09:02 AM
ok this is making me kinda uneasy now
Post by: Red Mones on February 22, 2021, 04:10:15 AM
Unvote
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 04:14:38 AM
Ex, I must ask you to consider just for a moment to the full extent you are able, what to do if I may be town, and set up for yourself a course of action to take if that is proven to be true. If I flip town your whole perception of the game flips upside-down, I know you're really tunneled right now and it's hard, but for the sake of giving the respect of listening to a fellow player, just try it for a moment. If I'm scum, there's nothing you lose, this question won't make you change your opinion of me.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 04:18:21 AM
I already made a counterpoint to this. Vro jumped out of the wagons that resulted in mislynches in D1 and D3, I think he had the same strategy of trying to not leave his votes behind a mislynch D2 unless absolutely necessary. Even if both him and TGN were scum I feel like he wouldn’t’ve hesitated to lynch him to save himself or even Silver if it came down to it.He’s been literally actively defending you saying you’re cleared because TGN flipped town and I have not seen you push him once despite you saying he’s your null.I haven't been actively defending him. I haven't declared him cleared. All I've done is observe I think it's more likely that he's in the same boat as TGN, whatever boat that might be, on the basis of their mutual unwillingness to lynch each other when they were both the two major wagons mid-D2, because if Vro was scum, he'd have leapt onto TGN's wagon and drove that mislynch into the ground.
Don't mischaracterize the one argument I've been proud of this game just cause you think I'm sus.
As for the rest of your post, I’m sorry you’ve been feeling this way. I know how annoying and frustrating it can be for people to always have other people putting on a ton of expectations on how we should play, and how it can affect out enjoyment. You’re not wrong to feel this way, and I feel like being open about it like you’re doing right now is the best way to tell everyone your annoyance with this sort of thing.
No matter what your alignment flips I don’t think you played poorly, and I actually enjoyed playing with you despite our direct interactions being kinda scarce.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 04:22:11 AM
At the risk of looking like a fool, I will proceed as if Doc is town, I don't think that post is at all what a Doc in the mindset of a scum would do. I'm not hearing the scum vibes and I am hearing the town vibes, beyond that I haven't seen an argument against him that's convinced me, I'm not w/w with anyone yadda yadda yadda, I think it's Wisch based on her approach to the game. I may be wrong, but I'm not feeling the Doc lynch today.Scum gets frustrated too.
Ex, I must ask you to consider just for a moment to the full extent you are able, what to do if I may be town, and set up for yourself a course of action to take if that is proven to be true. If I flip town your whole perception of the game flips upside-down, I know you're really tunneled right now and it's hard, but for the sake of giving the respect of listening to a fellow player, just try it for a moment. If I'm scum, there's nothing you lose, this question won't make you change your opinion of me.
I’ve thrown similar tantrum, and I’ve known quite a few players that have as well.
He’s clearly not enjoying playing the game and I don’t see why us pitying him over being frustrated will do any good since it will only result in us forcing him to keep playing something he doesn’t want to anymore. I’d rather just put him out of his misery here.
Post by: Wischland on February 22, 2021, 04:24:11 AM
So, let me get this straight. Vro, you're suspicious of me because I've...changed my opinion on people? Over the course of a 20 day long game with 7 (or 8, I lost count) day/night phases? During which tons of new information has been revealed about people? When you yourself have also changed your opinion plenty of times? Really not seeing how that makes me any more suspicious than anyone else. As for lying low, I'm not sure how terribly different my minimal posting was from last game. Given the rate of posts and the rapid changes in discussion topic, I don't have the time or the skill to keep up, so I do what I can with an argumentative post here and there and a vote towards the end of the day phase. I don't say much, because I genuinely don't have much to say, because people far cleverer and better at WW than I have already said it 5 pages back. I consider my job to be picking the argument I find most persuasive and voting accordingly. Maybe not the most helpful role, but it's what I can do, and it's what I enjoy.
Yeah, so, in conclusion, I feel Vro pushed a vote on me for basically arbitrary reasons, and that's only gonna lead to another mislych.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 04:25:54 AM
Scum gets frustrated too.Yes, I understand that but I don't think a scum gets frustrated from the perspective Doc is, I'm not seeing it.
I’ve thrown similar tantrum, and I’ve known quite a few players that have as well.
He’s clearly not enjoying playing the game and I don’t see why us pitying him over being frustrated will do any good since it will only result in us forcing him to keep playing something he doesn’t want to anymore. I’d rather just put him out of his misery here.
He's letting himself be modkilled, from a cold and heartless strategic standpoint we should be voting someone else. I wouldn't use the word pity either, sounds nasty, I can sympathize with his standpoint.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 04:30:24 AM
Well, I can. In fact, I just came from a game where most of the game throwing players that threw a fit were scum (3 outta 4 players, in a game that had 5 scum total), it’s really much more common than you think. The tantrum is NAI.Scum gets frustrated too.Yes, I understand that but I don't think a scum gets frustrated from the perspective Doc is, I'm not seeing it.
I’ve thrown similar tantrum, and I’ve known quite a few players that have as well.
He’s clearly not enjoying playing the game and I don’t see why us pitying him over being frustrated will do any good since it will only result in us forcing him to keep playing something he doesn’t want to anymore. I’d rather just put him out of his misery here.
He's letting himself be modkilled, from a cold and heartless strategic standpoint we should be voting someone else. I wouldn't use the word pity either, sounds nasty, I can sympathize with his standpoint.
And he isn’t letting himself get modkilled, he just unvoted himself and is saying he’ll allow himself to get lynched today. There’s a massive difference.
And if for some reason he’s actually willing to get modkilled, you’re the one that becomes the next option to me.
Post by: Doc on February 22, 2021, 04:31:30 AM
Vote: Doc.
Post by: Wischland on February 22, 2021, 04:36:32 AM
Self-preservation and all that. But Ex, I'm all here for a Vro lynch next day phase. I can't trust someone who is pushing me so hard over nothing, so that's that I guess.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 04:38:08 AM
Vote: DocWhat do you expect Doc to flip though.
Self-preservation and all that. But Ex, I'm all here for a Vro lynch next day phase. I can't trust someone who is pushing me so hard over nothing, so that's that I guess.
Post by: Red Mones on February 22, 2021, 04:38:49 AM
people far cleverer and better at WW than I have already said it 5 pages back.Big mood :))
Post by: Gerrick on February 22, 2021, 04:41:24 AM
Of the people who have votes right now, the person who I'm most ok with getting lynched is Vroendal. Don't really have much more than what others have said about him recently. I think if he flips town, the next person on my list would be ExLight. He's been pushing a lot of wagons, and so it's possible that he's taking the lead to kill off town, especially since he's been town-read by pretty much everyone.
That's all I got right now.
Vote: Vroendal
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 04:42:19 AM
Post by: Wischland on February 22, 2021, 04:46:36 AM
What do you expect Doc to flip though.Honestly, probably town. I just can't see scum accepting a lynch like this, even if it is fairly common in your experience. Especially since scum have basically all the knowledge, and this string of mislynches has been good for them, I just feel like this wouldn't be a frustrating situation.
But I can only guess with Doc, and I know with 100% certainty that I'm town, so my vote stays, unless enough people vote for someone more scummy that I can still self-preserve by voting them.
Post by: Red Mones on February 22, 2021, 04:48:44 AM
I think if he flips town, the next person on my list would be ExLight.Funny you bring this up since I've been thinking this since D5, but I wasn't gonna bring it up until later if we lynch another town since I figured saying that against a top town-read would screw me over. The fact that you bring this up out of the blue bumps you up to town status for me. I'd be willing to jump on an Ex wagon tomorrow if Vro flips town tonight. Hell if he flips town too it wouldn't really even be any worse than what we've been doing this whole damn time lol.
With this in mind:
Vote: Vroendal
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 04:52:22 AM
Yikes, I don't really like either of these wagons or the previous Wintermoot wagon (also, sorry I work 22 hours over the course of Saturday and Sunday, so catching up on the several pages of Werewolf isn't really on the top of my to-do list until Sunday evening). Doc I've been reading as town for a while and this self-voting stuff is very towny to me, Wintermoot is reading town to me after his recent defenses, and Wischland is null to town-lean.I’ve been taking the fucking lead because I keep working my ass off even though when I’m busy in real life while expecting people to put the minimum amount of effort and then come back to see less than one page after 24h and made by two or three people outta a dozen. Of fucking course I’ve been trying to townlead, but it’s a fucking pain when people do nothing and I have to keep repeating myself OVER and OVER and not get my fucking ””lead”” gone through.
Of the people who have votes right now, the person who I'm most ok with getting lynched is Vroendal. Don't really have much more than what others have said about him recently. I think if he flips town, the next person on my list would be ExLight. He's been pushing a lot of wagons, and so it's possible that he's taking the lead to kill off town, especially since he's been town-read by pretty much everyone.
That's all I got right now.
Vote: Vroendal
I pushed Sapph and wanted a TGN policy lynch and that ended up here for me townleading into mislynches. I was against Kane’s lynch and I didn’t want BSR’s lynch over Doc’s or Vro’s who are the ones I’ve been pushing today. So where the fuck are you seeing me leadering anything? If it seems like that it’s because I’m one of the few three or four that are still putting anything resembling effort into this game.
I kept trying to defend myself with proper arguments but it seems like instead I have to fucking rely on my last resource fucking pinkie promise and even that seems to be being put in check because apparently I’m such shitty person irl people can’t trust a fucking history with over 60+ different games where I had never lied about a fucking pinkie promise.
If Doc flips Town stop trying to pretend I’m the Big Bad Wolf here, because this is clearly frustrations from him being brought from outside the game to it, and I’m not going to sit here taking the blame for it.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 04:53:16 AM
Wisch's Post
Well, guess I'm not doing any homework tonight. :/
So, let me get this straight. Vro, you're suspicious of me because I've...changed my opinion on people? Over the course of a 20 day long game with 7 (or 8, I lost count) day/night phases? During which tons of new information has been revealed about people? When you yourself have also changed your opinion plenty of times? Really not seeing how that makes me any more suspicious than anyone else. As for lying low, I'm not sure how terribly different my minimal posting was from last game. Given the rate of posts and the rapid changes in discussion topic, I don't have the time or the skill to keep up, so I do what I can with an argumentative post here and there and a vote towards the end of the day phase. I don't say much, because I genuinely don't have much to say, because people far cleverer and better at WW than I have already said it 5 pages back. I consider my job to be picking the argument I find most persuasive and voting accordingly. Maybe not the most helpful role, but it's what I can do, and it's what I enjoy.
Yeah, so, in conclusion, I feel Vro pushed a vote on me for basically arbitrary reasons, and that's only gonna lead to another mislych.
The time and skill part I understand, and I believe you there. I'm not what I could call skilled myself, but that doesn't mean either of us aren't wolves. The role you're playing may serve in a good way as town, but it's also a pretty good crutch to use as scum.
Essentially, I'm falling back on the same thing that was keeping me from town-reading Silv from earlier. In your case, I can see you making your posts as scum. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I'm not really sure where else to go here. Red, Ex, and Legacy seem incredibly townies, Nyght, cozmik, and Anubhav have really believable townie tone to me, Doc and Michi both are approaching the game in a way which I don't see coming from a scum perspective, Moot had a pretty believable defense, and Gerrick's been making a lot of high effort original posts. You're what's left to me.
Who's my scum team, Wisch? Have your opinions changed on who you think is scum at all? Attacking me is a more active approach, but obviously I can't follow it.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 04:55:08 AM
Vote: Vroendal
and stop fucking blaming me for the mislynches when you all have a big part on that responsibility
it’s really easy to leave the job of 8-10 people to one and then blame them when things don’t go they way they wanted
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 04:58:49 AM
I can tell you right now it absolutely would be. Red, look into my beady owl eyes, I'm not scum. Everything I've said has been from my own, many times misguided, town perspective.I think if he flips town, the next person on my list would be ExLight.Funny you bring this up since I've been thinking this since D5, but I wasn't gonna bring it up until later if we lynch another town since I figured saying that against a top town-read would screw me over. The fact that you bring this up out of the blue bumps you up to town status for me. I'd be willing to jump on an Ex wagon tomorrow if Vro flips town tonight. Hell if he flips town too it wouldn't really even be any worse than what we've been doing this whole damn time lol.
With this in mind:
Vote: Vroendal
These are the situations where I really wish we hadn't lynched the Seer claim. :p
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 04:59:35 AM
FINALLY a Vro LynchThis mislynch will be almost entirely guided by you.
Vote: Vroendal
and stop fucking blaming me for the mislynches when you all have a big part on that responsibility
it’s really easy to leave the job of 8-10 people to one and then blame them when things don’t go they way they wanted
Post by: cozmikrae on February 22, 2021, 05:04:42 AM
@cozmikrae I know you’re lurking, do you have nothing to say?
I need a vote count to properly understand what's going on. But Doc is a null from me, and his posts earlier sound like Michi D1 levels of frustration. So I'm town reading him. Vro, idk... I've been flip flopping on Vro all game. I'm interested to see the flip, but not convinced enough to lynch. And I really, really, really think we need to prevent mislyches at this point in the game. We're handing the game to the wolves.
The most suspicious person to me is still Gerrick.
You are pushing hard for lynches. I'm still not comfortable with you. But again, your reason for pushing could be good for town.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:05:04 AM
I’ll bite the bullet.FINALLY a Vro LynchThis mislynch will be almost entirely guided by you.
Vote: Vroendal
and stop fucking blaming me for the mislynches when you all have a big part on that responsibility
it’s really easy to leave the job of 8-10 people to one and then blame them when things don’t go they way they wanted
I spent HOURS of my brother’s birthday redoing a D3 recap trying to put thoughts in order because I lost the previous draft and if ANYONE has the fucking audacity I’d put that much fucking effort as scum when people weren’t even scumreading me I’ll be personally upset. As if people not giving a fuck about me promising to be town wasn’t annoying enough.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 05:06:06 AM
I expect everyone who lynched me to start their first post in the next day with "m'bad" ;) (You don't need to do this, this is merely humoring myself)
I expect the defenders to limit themselves to Ex, Red, and Legacy. If there is a point where there is only one remaining defender, defend yourself and try your hardest not to get lynched.
I expect players who have been quiet to talk more in the thread, this should be way easier once I'm dead, I am sorry if my high activity levels have put you off, I get over-excited.
I expect town to be more active in the beginning parts of the day, and less mass-scrambling at the end.
And lastly, I would like Legacy to feel good about themselves for being the only one to rightfully feel uncomfortable with my lynch.
Post by: Gerrick on February 22, 2021, 05:09:02 AM
Doc (4): Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc, Wischland
Vroendal (4): Nyght, Gerrick, Red Mones, ExLight
Wischland (3): Michi, Vroendal, Anubhav
Gerrick (1): cozmikrae
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:09:58 AM
I was pushing for a Doc lynch when it was Doc vs Wisch and he had a frustration outburst and now people are doing a wagon shift into Vro because of pity (or sympathy as Vro says).@cozmikrae I know you’re lurking, do you have nothing to say?
I need a vote count to properly understand what's going on. But Doc is a null from me, and his posts earlier sound like Michi D1 levels of frustration. So I'm town reading him. Vro, idk... I've been flip flopping on Vro all game. I'm interested to see the flip, but not convinced enough to lynch. And I really, really, really think we need to prevent mislyches at this point in the game. We're handing the game to the wolves.
The most suspicious person to me is still Gerrick.
You are pushing hard for lynches. I'm still not comfortable with you. But again, your reason for pushing could be good for town.
And you can be as uncomfortable as you want around me but when I say I’m town and pinkie promise then I’m town. End.
This stuff is dead serious to me no matter how ridiculous it sounds. I’ll fucking smash my hands and knees for you after the game ends if I’m scum.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 05:11:18 AM
Also I would like to thank cozmik.
I’ll bite the bullet.I think we all need Night Phase to come so we can relax a little, we're all a little wound-up and we need to recognize that. Please, Ex.
I spent HOURS of my brother’s birthday redoing a D3 recap trying to put thoughts in order because I lost the previous draft and if ANYONE has the fucking audacity I’d put that much fucking effort as scum when people weren’t even scumreading me I’ll be personally upset. As if people not giving a fuck about me promising to be town wasn’t annoying enough.
For what it's worth, I'm town-reading you. I hope you won't think too poorly of me when I flip.
Post by: Wischland on February 22, 2021, 05:12:05 AM
Vote: Vro
If Vro flips scum, I'm inclined to think Anub will as well. Besides Anub's sudden vote for me not too long after Vro, I feel like they've been kinda supporting one another with positive reads of each other, though I'd have to go back and look at it more closely. 3rd wolf I'm not really sure of.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:12:22 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:13:11 AM
this game has some gloomy as vibes man sdinikfogmfm
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:13:23 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:15:09 AM
If the issue is me townleading yall can do it, I’ll take the time for my mental health and to hang out with my brother instead.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 05:17:28 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:19:06 AM
Ex, don't lynch me here. Also I'm not actually really scum-reading Moot anymore, I've basically been reduced to just going for Wisch. I would rather you vote her tomorrow even if just to give her the motivation to post more analysis.shshsiigkdhmf
I’m not going to vote someone for pressure in a game that is having inactivity issues
Post by: Gerrick on February 22, 2021, 05:19:54 AM
Ex, don't lynch me here. Also I'm not actually really scum-reading Moot anymore, I've basically been reduced to just going for Wisch. I would rather you vote her tomorrow even if just to give her the motivation to post more analysis.Vro, who would Wisch's scumbuds even be?
Post by: Wischland on February 22, 2021, 05:20:15 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 05:21:43 AM
I know, and I empathize with her, that don't mean she ain't scum though. I've seen some worrying things beyond being explained by inactivity. You don't have to lynch her either, just vote at the beginning (even though I do think it's her), but applying the pressure gets results, one way or another. There's plenty of time to switch.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:23:36 AM
Also btw, if you don't trust me and do trust Legacy, then believe Legacy and follow his example.you’re about to get lynched shouldn’t you be explaining these “worrying things”?
I know, and I empathize with her, that don't mean she ain't scum though. I've seen some worrying things beyond being explained by inactivity. You don't have to lynch her either, just vote at the beginning (even though I do think it's her), but applying the pressure gets results, one way or another. There's plenty of time to switch.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 05:24:31 AM
I was actually leaning you based on my thoughts here -Ex, don't lynch me here. Also I'm not actually really scum-reading Moot anymore, I've basically been reduced to just going for Wisch. I would rather you vote her tomorrow even if just to give her the motivation to post more analysis.Vro, who would Wisch's scumbuds even be?
Spoiler
The only thing I'm hung up about is that if we proceed under the thinking that neither Moot nor Legacy are the wolves, that means that the Seer lynch was entirely made up of town, which just seems a little odd.
I think ... I vote Wisch here, to be honest. I'm not reading scum from her posting tone, but I'm getting the impression that she's been playing it safe. She definitely feels like she's been under the radar for most of the game, and that alone really worries me. I could see a Gerrick/Wisch team based on this -Also kinda sus of Gerrick. On the one hand, his vote shortly after Sapph's on BSR may be an indication that the two were working together as part of a seer army. But Gerrick also didn't do anything to try and save Sapph later when just one vote on TGN would have done the trick. Was he offline at the time? Sorta a weird disparity, so I'm not really sure what's going on there.And then switching to this -Also not really sure where those votes on Gerrick are coming from. Maybe it's just cause I have trouble reading him, but there's nothing that's really stuck out either way about him to me. Perhaps someone could explain that for me? Right now it really seems like people are digging up old dirt rather than looking through the events of the last day phase. While looking at old clues is important, it kinda feels like discussion is being directed away from recent events.
This post also kind of pings me now after looking at it and knowing TGN's alignment.So I've been reading through all of Ruguo's posts again to try and get a better idea of things and this really jumped out at me in light of recent discussion, so I wanted to note my thoughts before they faded into brain mush. I was kinda hesitant in regards to Ruguo training/helping a scum TGN in the open to get town cred, because I thought Ruguo pressured TGN way more than I would expect if they were scumbuds, even to the point of starting a bandwagon. But the fact that Ruguo brings up their helping of new players here as part of their defense makes me think it may have been a much more coordinated effort to get town cred. That would also explain the sudden (in my opinion) drop of their TGN vote after TGN only kinda fulfilled their request for more logical arguments to instead vote Vro, possibly to head off any bandwagon that Mel could create by voting for Ruguo. Obviously the bandwagon gained traction very quickly and ended up on Ruguo anyway, but that doesn't seem to be what the scum expected/wanted at all.
I don't know if I'll be able to check back in before EoD tonight, so for the above reasons, I'm going to:
Vote: TGN
If I do make it back, I'll try to poke through everything with Sapph to see if I think that has more weight, but at the moment TGN seems like a better bet to me.
I went into this day expecting to vote Moot, but honestly I think his defense sounds like it's coming from a town perspective, at least to me. I honestly don't know about Gerrick, I suppose the results of a Wisch lynch could perhaps guide us a little more, but beyond any links I think Wisch has been lying low a little too much now that I think about it, in this situation it's the optimal ploy for a wolf to do if town are going to eat each other based on lynching the Seer with only town.
Vote - Wischland
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 05:26:06 AM
I have explained it here -Also btw, if you don't trust me and do trust Legacy, then believe Legacy and follow his example.you’re about to get lynched shouldn’t you be explaining these “worrying things”?
I know, and I empathize with her, that don't mean she ain't scum though. I've seen some worrying things beyond being explained by inactivity. You don't have to lynch her either, just vote at the beginning (even though I do think it's her), but applying the pressure gets results, one way or another. There's plenty of time to switch.
Spoiler
Not because you've changed opinions on people, but because you've changed opinions on specific people that now appear to have a very likely chance of being scum in a way that hasn't been quite so obvious to the thread despite contributing to it. My suspicions about you lying low aren't tied to your activity levels, it's the style of content of what you've been posting. You've been posting read-lists and jumping on wagons, which you did last game, but I'm noticing a lot less separate analysis posts, maybe it's just me being paranoid but I'm not liking it in a game where scum have apparently been off the radar far too long. It's lying low in that you've felt more passive than you were, and in this game in general.Wisch's PostWell, guess I'm not doing any homework tonight. :/
So, let me get this straight. Vro, you're suspicious of me because I've...changed my opinion on people? Over the course of a 20 day long game with 7 (or 8, I lost count) day/night phases? During which tons of new information has been revealed about people? When you yourself have also changed your opinion plenty of times? Really not seeing how that makes me any more suspicious than anyone else. As for lying low, I'm not sure how terribly different my minimal posting was from last game. Given the rate of posts and the rapid changes in discussion topic, I don't have the time or the skill to keep up, so I do what I can with an argumentative post here and there and a vote towards the end of the day phase. I don't say much, because I genuinely don't have much to say, because people far cleverer and better at WW than I have already said it 5 pages back. I consider my job to be picking the argument I find most persuasive and voting accordingly. Maybe not the most helpful role, but it's what I can do, and it's what I enjoy.
Yeah, so, in conclusion, I feel Vro pushed a vote on me for basically arbitrary reasons, and that's only gonna lead to another mislych.
The time and skill part I understand, and I believe you there. I'm not what I could call skilled myself, but that doesn't mean either of us aren't wolves. The role you're playing may serve in a good way as town, but it's also a pretty good crutch to use as scum.
Essentially, I'm falling back on the same thing that was keeping me from town-reading Silv from earlier. In your case, I can see you making your posts as scum. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but I'm not really sure where else to go here. Red, Ex, and Legacy seem incredibly townies, Nyght, cozmik, and Anubhav have really believable townie tone to me, Doc and Michi both are approaching the game in a way which I don't see coming from a scum perspective, Moot had a pretty believable defense, and Gerrick's been making a lot of high effort original posts. You're what's left to me.
Who's my scum team, Wisch? Have your opinions changed on who you think is scum at all? Attacking me is a more active approach, but obviously I can't follow it.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 22, 2021, 05:28:08 AM
I'm beginning to worry that most of the wolves are among the weighing in at the last minute. It seems like for some time now votes have drastically changed at the last minute for each day phase. If Doc or Vro are exposed as town, that may be the place to look going forward.
And for what it's worth, I believe that Ex is town. I don't know how I feel about a mechanic where someone can guarantee that they're town, but he seems to be an honourable sort to me and I doubt he would lie about something like that just to get an advantage in a single game. The damage to his reputation for doing that would be extreme, and he seems proud of his character in a similar way that I am of mine, so I get where he's coming from.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:41:39 AM
if Vro flips scum she’s pretty much towncleared because I don’t think scum sacrifices an active scum to save one that is game throwing
and if vro flips town she’s more likely to be scum and that makes a weak link with Doc
and if all three are town I’ll fucking yeet myself of a cliff because why fucking not
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:44:27 AM
does scum even vote if doc and vro are town
vro and doc flipping town = moot/gerrick/??
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:45:37 AM
If Doc is town just put him out of his misery, this game is clearly stressing him out umu
Yall’re kill someone, we get a better PoE, and he gets some relief. It’s a win-win for everyone.
If Doc is scum, well, that would be awkward.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 05:46:44 AM
the casting vote so far is WischI don't know how much of my pushes today have affected the pushes on me, I have no idea if I'm right at all ahaha. XD I'm just floundering along and hoping I'm right.
if Vro flips scum she’s pretty much towncleared because I don’t think scum sacrifices an active scum to save one that is game throwing
and if vro flips town she’s more likely to be scum and that makes a weak link with Doc
and if all three are town I’ll fucking yeet myself of a cliff because why fucking not
I'm not what I would call good at Werewolf, but I hope you're taking me seriously when I tell you that almost any other lynch would be far better than lynching me today.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 05:49:09 AM
Doc (3): Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc
Vroendal (5): Nyght, Gerrick, Red Mones, ExLight, Wischland
Wischland (3): Michi, Vroendal, Anubhav
Gerrick (1): cozmikrae
Everyone is currently voting. If y'all even have the slightest urge to tie me and someone else that would be acceptable to me and the obligatory "m'bad" shall be waived for that player. :p
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:51:01 AM
Votecount based on Gerrick's on the previous page -ok this is scummy af skdndkjfjenrn
Doc (3): Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc
Vroendal (5): Nyght, Gerrick, Red Mones, ExLight, Wischland
Wischland (3): Michi, Vroendal, Anubhav
Gerrick (1): cozmikrae
Everyone is currently voting. If y'all even have the slightest urge to tie me and someone else that would be acceptable to me and the obligatory "m'bad" shall be waived for that player. :p
I’m staying
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:52:18 AM
don’t you fucking dare put this emphasis here you’d be contradicting yourselfthe casting vote so far is WischI don't know how much of my pushes today have affected the pushes on me, I have no idea if I'm right at all ahaha. XD I'm just floundering along and hoping I'm right.
if Vro flips scum she’s pretty much towncleared because I don’t think scum sacrifices an active scum to save one that is game throwing
and if vro flips town she’s more likely to be scum and that makes a weak link with Doc
and if all three are town I’ll fucking yeet myself of a cliff because why fucking not
I'm not what I would call good at Werewolf, but I hope you're taking me seriously when I tell you that almost any other lynch would be far better than lynching me today.
Post by: cozmikrae on February 22, 2021, 05:52:37 AM
Votecount based on Gerrick's on the previous page -
Doc (3): Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc
Vroendal (5): Nyght, Gerrick, Red Mones, ExLight, Wischland
Wischland (3): Michi, Vroendal, Anubhav
Gerrick (1): cozmikrae
Everyone is currently voting. If y'all even have the slightest urge to tie me and someone else that would be acceptable to me and the obligatory "m'bad" shall be waived for that player. :p
I hope I'm right about what's going on here...
Unvote
Vote: Wischland
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:52:59 AM
HE’S BLUFFINGVotecount based on Gerrick's on the previous page -
Doc (3): Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc
Vroendal (5): Nyght, Gerrick, Red Mones, ExLight, Wischland
Wischland (3): Michi, Vroendal, Anubhav
Gerrick (1): cozmikrae
Everyone is currently voting. If y'all even have the slightest urge to tie me and someone else that would be acceptable to me and the obligatory "m'bad" shall be waived for that player. :p
I hope I'm right about what's going on here...
Unvote
Vote: Wischland
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 05:53:34 AM
O:-) Am I?don’t you fucking dare put this emphasis here you’d be contradicting yourselfthe casting vote so far is WischI don't know how much of my pushes today have affected the pushes on me, I have no idea if I'm right at all ahaha. XD I'm just floundering along and hoping I'm right.
if Vro flips scum she’s pretty much towncleared because I don’t think scum sacrifices an active scum to save one that is game throwing
and if vro flips town she’s more likely to be scum and that makes a weak link with Doc
and if all three are town I’ll fucking yeet myself of a cliff because why fucking not
I'm not what I would call good at Werewolf, but I hope you're taking me seriously when I tell you that almost any other lynch would be far better than lynching me today.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:54:12 AM
COZ DONT FALL FOR THIS
Post by: cozmikrae on February 22, 2021, 05:54:42 AM
HE’S BLUFFINGVotecount based on Gerrick's on the previous page -
Doc (3): Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc
Vroendal (5): Nyght, Gerrick, Red Mones, ExLight, Wischland
Wischland (3): Michi, Vroendal, Anubhav
Gerrick (1): cozmikrae
Everyone is currently voting. If y'all even have the slightest urge to tie me and someone else that would be acceptable to me and the obligatory "m'bad" shall be waived for that player. :p
I hope I'm right about what's going on here...
Unvote
Vote: Wischland
Well my vote hasn't really changed much. lol So we might just find out soon enough.
Post by: Red Mones on February 22, 2021, 05:55:34 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 05:56:12 AM
Believe in the you that believes in me. O:-)
Red, you wanna tie it? 5 more minutes. Trust me, I ain't lying here.
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:56:16 AM
I expect the defenders to limit themselves to Ex, Red, and Legacy. If there is a point where there is only one remaining defender, defend yourself and try your hardest not to get lynched.
I expect players who have been quiet to talk more in the thread, this should be way easier once I'm dead, I am sorry if my high activity levels have put you off, I get over-excited.
I'm not what I would call good at Werewolf, but I hope you're taking me seriously when I tell you that almost any other lynch would be far better than lynching me today.These contradict themselves don’t you even fucking dare pretend you’re a defender and say you expect both defenders to be alive of you get lynched
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:56:42 AM
Yeah Coz isn't tying it up, just making it 5:4Vro will try to save his fucking ass voting Wisch
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:57:14 AM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 22, 2021, 05:57:28 AM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 22, 2021, 05:58:04 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:58:26 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 22, 2021, 05:59:05 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 22, 2021, 05:59:20 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 05:59:29 AM
Cozmik is <3Nyght, you a taker in this? I'm not scum here.
Believe in the you that believes in me. O:-)
Red, you wanna tie it? 5 more minutes. Trust me, I ain't lying here.
Post by: Vroendal on February 22, 2021, 05:59:49 AM
VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOO<3
Post by: Red Mones on February 22, 2021, 05:59:54 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 22, 2021, 06:00:12 AM
Post by: Laurentus on February 22, 2021, 06:08:07 AM
Vroendal (4): Nyght, Gerrick, ExLight, Wischland
Wischland (4): Michi, Vroendal, Anubhav, CozmikRae
Gerrick (1): cozmikrae
And RNGesus has decided that Wischland will be our lynch today. She was a plain old Scout..
Post by: Laurentus on February 23, 2021, 06:01:17 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 23, 2021, 06:31:55 AM
Post by: Wintermoot on February 23, 2021, 06:34:45 AM
Well the whole Doc business now makes me think he's town.So why were you downright giddy on Discord about saving Vro at the last second yesterday, even after it was revealed that Wisch was town?
Post by: Red Mones on February 23, 2021, 06:41:22 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 23, 2021, 06:42:07 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 23, 2021, 06:44:41 AM
Post by: Wintermoot on February 23, 2021, 06:45:25 AM
I was getting damn tired of the mislynches. If Vro is truly a defender, then I would certainly rather Wisch to die in his place. The giddyness was because I was having fun lol.Do you have any evidence that he's a defender other than him suggesting that was the case right as he was about to be killed off? Ex seemed all but certain that he was a wolf, and he's got that pinky promise thing going on for him.
Post by: Red Mones on February 23, 2021, 06:46:49 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 07:18:24 AM
If I were to rank all the current players from most to least townie, it'd probably look like this:To what has this changed to after the recent events?
Red Mones
NyghtOwl
Legacy of Smiles
BraveSirRobin
Anubhav Ghosh
cozmikrae
ExLight
Wischland
Michi
Doc
Vroendal
Wintermoot
Gerrick
I don't really know tbh. When making this list, almost everyone has some kinda townie vibes, so I honestly can't even say this is even how I'd rank them. Also still kinda hung up on Gerrick, though his defenses have been decently strong. Not liking that Michi is still in his scum list though, cuz I'm not really seeing it.
Post by: Gerrick on February 23, 2021, 07:40:23 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 08:17:44 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 09:08:26 AM
Legacy: who are two candidates for defender/nightkill targets N1 just based on your knowledge of the players and the interactions D1? If you can, narrow it down to one.
Ok so from a brief skim back, it looks like the only consensus town read on D1 that I can see is Nyght. There are also four active, strong players in Minish, Melehan, Red Mones and Vroendel with Red and Mel being the most active/leadery. These are the five people I had narrowed it down to being in my head.
Out of the two, my top picks would be Nyght and Melehan. I think Nyght is the most likely to be protected and Melehan the most likely to be attacked.
Nyght is the towniest person in the game as this point so will be an obvious defender magnet but they aren't a particularly active player so I'm not sure how much of a threat the scumteam would see them as. Also think them being an obvious defender magnet might mean that the wolves don't bother attacking them.
I think Melehan could have been a likely nightkill target. Consensus read on her was high, she was one of the most active players, she was suspicious of Ruguo and then she was killed N2 (so wolves definitely wanted her dead - not sure if wolves attack the same person twice in a row though after being protected, this is the only thing that puts me off a bit). Probably less likely to be protected as not many people seem to have strongky townread her but I think it's possible.
So if I had to rank, Melehan>Nyght>Red>Minish/Vro on who I think was most likely to have been successfully defended from the kill on N1.
I'll get to my EoD thoughts in a moment sorry I was expecting this to be a low-effort post.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 09:40:29 AM
Also, as I mentioned on discord, @Legacy of Smiles, thoughts on yesterday?
Well my attempts to quash the Vro wagon by convincing ExLight to vote Doc crashed and burned.
ExLight/Doc anger is NAI in a vacuum but I think it's more on the towny side given our current situation because I don't see wolves reacting the way they did.
If Doc is a wolf he is either massively gamethrowing or making a 200iQ play of bluffing gamethrowing to get cleared. He's probably just town and I'm probably not going to consider voting him until very late into the game.
Anubhav vote on Wischland can be summed up as: ???. Poor ExLight.
I disagree with Gerrick/Red on Vro flipping town implicating ExLight. I would read him town either way. It's not unusual for townspeople to wrongly tunnel other townspeople. In my last game, in the final 9, one active townsperson was deathtunneling three(!) other townspeople (90% confident all three were wolves). Was not thriving.
For anybody not aware, Vro softed defender yesterday. This is to make sure wolves can't push the wagon pretending to be oblivious of this. It's fine if you don't believe it but you should at least be aware of it.
I don't think Vro's soft directly contradicts what he said before since I don't think he was expecting to be lynched at that point.
Red/Vro scumteam has huge synergy but I read both as town independently.
Ok, that was chaotic.
I think we really need to resolve the Vro debate today and move on from there. We will likely go to ELO at some point during the game and I really don't want to be fighting over Vro for most of the day then.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 10:05:30 AM
Well the whole Doc business now makes me think he's town.Red, you know damn fucking well that scum will soft Doctor here no matter what.
He’s scum, and you saving his ass and defending him now is dropping you to the bottom of my list.
I already showed how he slipped in a lie, if he was the Doctor he would NEVER give instructions for both Doctors in a farewell Doctor and then soft.
Vote: Vroendal
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 10:10:11 AM
We are NOT taking anyone else.
I still need to think about Doc, but atm I don’t think Doc is town. I thought about it and it makes a lot of sense for Doc to get really frustrated if I was tunneling on 2/3 of the scum team.
In any case he shouldn’t be the point of discussion today.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 10:13:33 AM
It’s literally their last resort and can make them get fake townpants in a snap of fingers. Scum can and WILL lie to save themselves.
Don’t even hesitate here, Vro was even boasting in the discord channel laughing about the whole situation when the unvote happened.
He’s 99.9% scum here.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 10:16:39 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 10:18:03 AM
Wintermoot goes from 8/11 people scumreading them, not even including ExLight, to getting zero votes at EoD yesterday. Of the people who didn't scumread Moot, cozmik just flipped town and ExLight/Red are likely to both just be town. I don't think this speaks much for Moot's alignment to me in a vacuum but it does tell me that there are some very wolfy things going on there.Legacy, can you just trust me on this one?
Vro is guaranteed scum, and Moot isn’t likely to be the same alignment as him.
Please help me go Vro today.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 10:24:53 AM
Please just think for a second, please. If you were scum what would’ve you done if you were about to to get lynched? Claiming a Town Power Role is literally the most common tactic of them all.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 10:32:54 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 10:34:49 AM
Spoiler
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 10:38:53 AM
Legacy please talk to me, you’re making me uneasy as fuckSorry, I had to disappear briefly.
I'm conflicted. I think Vro's defence earlier on yesterday was from a town PoV and I stand by the town read on him. But I'm also pretty much ride or die on you being town here and I do understand your arguments, even if I don't think they are as much scumtells as you do.
If I choose the wrong side in this I am definitely going to be the village idiot lol.
Still can't say I want to vote Vro today but I'm going to take some time mulling over my read on him to see.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
On the other hand, I think something just clicked in why you might really distrust Vro's claim but I don't think that means he's guaranteed scum if I'm understanding correctly.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 10:44:04 AM
Honestly, in situations like these we shouldn’t even hesitate because it gives scum time to double down on the fake claim and if they had set this up throughout the game they get time to bullshit real deep with stuff that is the wildest of WIFOMs.Legacy please talk to me, you’re making me uneasy as fuckSorry, I had to disappear briefly.
I'm conflicted. I think Vro's defence earlier on yesterday was from a town PoV and I stand by the town read on him. But I'm also pretty much ride or die on you being town here and I do understand your arguments, even if I don't think they are as much scumtells as you do.
If I choose the wrong side in this I am definitely going to be the village idiot lol.
Still can't say I want to vote Vro today but I'm going to take some time mulling over my read on him to see.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 10:45:45 AM
I got put in this situation in my last game and on that last game, the person in Vro's position was town and I was feeling the same about them then as I am about Vro now.Last game was last game, this game is this game.
On the other hand, I think something just clicked in why you might really distrust Vro's claim but I don't think that means he's guaranteed scum if I'm understanding correctly.
Vro was literally mocking us with the angel emotes. If he was town he would’ve been a lot more panicky and emotional than sassy.
Post by: Laurentus on February 23, 2021, 10:59:11 AM
In order to see the vote count, I just voted no, so just remember that there is one less no vote than there appears to be.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 11:01:05 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 11:10:39 AM
So her plan was that everyone could just put out a list of hypothetical targets they would've picked as Defenders. When they get killed we have information on who might’ve been town in the nights where no nightkill happened.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 11:15:48 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 11:18:56 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 11:24:03 AM
ExLight, let's assume Vro is town and we mislynch him today. Now we are in ELO. What would be your plan of action from there?Throw myself inside an active volcano. There’s no fucking way he flips Town.
All serious talk, I’d go for Moot if Vro is Town, but I REALLY doubt this will happen. Scum not killing Doc is quite the red flag too because that shows that they’re either heartless psychos or that Doc is scum, so he would be a decent option too (and yes I know you all got shocked by the tantrum but it really is NAI).
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 11:32:04 AM
ExLight, let's assume Vro is town and we mislynch him today. Now we are in ELO. What would be your plan of action from there?Throw myself inside an active volcano. There’s no fucking way he flips Town.
All serious talk, I’d go for Moot if Vro is Town, but I REALLY doubt this will happen. Scum not killing Doc is quite the red flag too because that shows that they’re either heartless psychos or that Doc is scum, so he would be a decent option too (and yes I know you all got shocked by the tantrum but it really is NAI).
Thanks. Was the soft claim the thing that made you absolutely certain Vro was a wolf without any benefit of the doubt or was it something else?
Additional question: assuming Vro does flip as a wolf, who is the first person you want to vote tomorrow?
On the topic of Doc, if he's not planning on voting today but wants to avoid the inactivity lynch, he can just vote for me. Would prefer Doc not to vote for somebody wolves could wagon on.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 11:36:16 AM
Yea, the blatantly fake soft and the way he persuaded people last second to jump out of his wagon into a mislynch, also note how he avoids Doc still which is unnatural, despite the risk of Doc getting modkilled, showing that Vro either wanted Town to take a double hit or was protecting a scumbud.ExLight, let's assume Vro is town and we mislynch him today. Now we are in ELO. What would be your plan of action from there?Throw myself inside an active volcano. There’s no fucking way he flips Town.
All serious talk, I’d go for Moot if Vro is Town, but I REALLY doubt this will happen. Scum not killing Doc is quite the red flag too because that shows that they’re either heartless psychos or that Doc is scum, so he would be a decent option too (and yes I know you all got shocked by the tantrum but it really is NAI).
Thanks. Was the soft claim the thing that made you absolutely certain Vro was a wolf without any benefit of the doubt or was it something else?
Additional question: assuming Vro does flip as a wolf, who is the first person you want to vote tomorrow?
On the topic of Doc, if he's not planning on voting today but wants to avoid the inactivity lynch, he can just vote for me. Would prefer Doc not to vote for somebody wolves could wagon on.
Doc can vote himself to avoid inactivity lynch. You really shouldn’t want to risk wagons forming around you during endgame.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 11:46:22 AM
Yea, the blatantly fake soft and the way he persuaded people last second to jump out of his wagon into a mislynch, also note how he avoids Doc still which is unnatural, despite the risk of Doc getting modkilled, showing that Vro either wanted Town to take a double hit or was protecting a scumbud.ExLight, let's assume Vro is town and we mislynch him today. Now we are in ELO. What would be your plan of action from there?Throw myself inside an active volcano. There’s no fucking way he flips Town.
All serious talk, I’d go for Moot if Vro is Town, but I REALLY doubt this will happen. Scum not killing Doc is quite the red flag too because that shows that they’re either heartless psychos or that Doc is scum, so he would be a decent option too (and yes I know you all got shocked by the tantrum but it really is NAI).
Thanks. Was the soft claim the thing that made you absolutely certain Vro was a wolf without any benefit of the doubt or was it something else?
Additional question: assuming Vro does flip as a wolf, who is the first person you want to vote tomorrow?
On the topic of Doc, if he's not planning on voting today but wants to avoid the inactivity lynch, he can just vote for me. Would prefer Doc not to vote for somebody wolves could wagon on.
Doc can vote himself to avoid inactivity lynch. You really shouldn’t want to risk wagons forming around you during endgame.
I think the post that makes Vro's soft look fake (the one about both defenders) was made before Vro thought he was going to be at serious risk of dying and wasn't willing to soft yet (which would explain why it sounds so contradictory). The timing is a bit weird but I don't think wolf-Vro makes that post if they are expecting to die and preparing for a last minute soft.
And oh yeah self voting would be easier lol, I forgot about that.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 11:50:02 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 12:13:52 PM
Compare it to Sapph’s, he made his softs thinking there was quite a bit of time in the Phase which allowed some people to discuss the veracity of the claim.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 12:14:31 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 12:32:26 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 12:48:10 PM
If Vro is actually a defender and I change my read I'll be the biggest village idiot of all time.At least we’ll be the biggest idiots together, yeet.
If he’s scum and you let him slip away that ain’t much better and you’ll be yourself.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 12:48:23 PM
Post by: Doc on February 23, 2021, 01:09:11 PM
Quote from: Discord
DocHowever, Ex below makes a good point.
there's 10 players
if i'd followed through with the modkill, it'd have been 9 but i figured it might be more helpful to be a warm body even if i don't actually really do anything
Red
Oh you're right
That's nicer to hear lol
Doc
so to maintain this best-of-both worlds lifestyle, i will remain entirely checked out save for either providing a hammer vote on a consensus lynch or a completely at random vote to avoid 'inactivity' lynch
Doc can vote himself to avoid inactivity lynch. You really shouldn’t want to risk wagons forming around you during endgame.Might as well get it out of the way now.
Vote: Doc
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 01:16:05 PM
Cribbing from the Discord where I explained both my eventual decision to decline the modkill about an hour short of EON and what I intend to do going forward;I think everyone here still wants you to play when you feel happy to!Quote from: DiscordDocHowever, Ex below makes a good point.
there's 10 players
if i'd followed through with the modkill, it'd have been 9 but i figured it might be more helpful to be a warm body even if i don't actually really do anything
Red
Oh you're right
That's nicer to hear lol
Doc
so to maintain this best-of-both worlds lifestyle, i will remain entirely checked out save for either providing a hammer vote on a consensus lynch or a completely at random vote to avoid 'inactivity' lynchDoc can vote himself to avoid inactivity lynch. You really shouldn’t want to risk wagons forming around you during endgame.Might as well get it out of the way now.
Vote: Doc
Post by: Laurentus on February 23, 2021, 02:10:09 PM
Cribbing from the Discord where I explained both my eventual decision to decline the modkill about an hour short of EON and what I intend to do going forward;I think everyone here still wants you to play when you feel happy to!Quote from: DiscordDocHowever, Ex below makes a good point.
there's 10 players
if i'd followed through with the modkill, it'd have been 9 but i figured it might be more helpful to be a warm body even if i don't actually really do anything
Red
Oh you're right
That's nicer to hear lol
Doc
so to maintain this best-of-both worlds lifestyle, i will remain entirely checked out save for either providing a hammer vote on a consensus lynch or a completely at random vote to avoid 'inactivity' lynchDoc can vote himself to avoid inactivity lynch. You really shouldn’t want to risk wagons forming around you during endgame.Might as well get it out of the way now.
Vote: Doc
I second this, @Doc.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 23, 2021, 02:31:17 PM
As far as his Scumbuds go, I'd say maybe Moot and maybe Red? I don't have anything to link the three of them together specifically but the conflicts between Vro and Moot have all just felt kinda forced and artificial to me. Like two people trying really hard convince the public they hate each other. Like they do in professional wrestling. And Red switching votes just sealed him in for me.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 23, 2021, 03:41:31 PM
Seeing people literally considering letting Vro walk away after yesterday’s bull is literally giving me an anxiety attack.
Please just think for a second, please. If you were scum what would’ve you done if you were about to to get lynched? Claiming a Town Power Role is literally the most common tactic of them all.
Why not make a probable nightkill target list after going through other days . Then from the nightkill defense , town reads and other interactions combined , we can come down to a possible false claim
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 04:02:18 PM
1) Of the two PR's left, the town has only noted one claim, in a host of mislynches this increases the possibility that it is real.
2) There are 10 players left, if town mislynches and the wolves get a kill (very likely with a PR dead) there will be a 3v5, if town mislynches again and the wolves get another kill, they just win.
3) The loss of any PR makes the wolves' jobs significantly easier at any stage of the game, if the PR's hadn't blocked three kills, the wolves would only need a mislynch today.
Town can not be throwing down votes willy-nilly, especially since lynch-by-majority is likely to be enabled. If you see a case against someone, argue it and push it instead of voting it right away.
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 04:11:06 PM
I don't mock players, and especially not in thread, I perhaps tease them, but it's not malicious like you're making it sound. Every player is different because every person is different, just because I'm doing things that make me seem scummy to you does not mean that I'm scum. They can be accounted for by mental state, gameplay differences, gameplay perspective, experience, and just a different brain in general.
Stop tunneling just for one hour, I understand if you want to lynch me, but this tunneling is highly, highly detrimental to town.
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 05:06:50 PM
Minish Post
Ruguo - 1 (Red Mones)
Red Mones - 1 (Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 1 (Sapphiron)
Adorable Oracle Hapi - 4 (NyghtOwl, Melehan, Doc, Cozmikrae)
Michi - 4 (Ruguo, Gerrick, Wischland, Minish)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Hapi)
Ruguo - 9 (Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Sapphiron, Minish, Michi, Melehan, Cozmikrae)
Vroendal - 5 (Ruguo, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Doc)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Imaginative Kane)
Doc - 1 (TGN)
Eastern New England - 1 (Self)
Gerrick - 1 (Red Mones)
Sapphiron - 6 (Minish, Imaginative Kane, TGN, Wintermoot, Legacy of Smiles, Human Dawn)
BraveSirRobin - 2 (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
TGN - 6 (Vroendal, Sapphiron, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight)
TGN - 8 (BraveSirRobin, Doc, ExLight, Gerrick, Imaginative Kane, Minish, Red Mones, Wintermoot)
Imaginative Kane - 6 (Anubhav Ghosh, Cozmikrae, Legacy of Smiles, TGN, Vroendal, Wischland)
BraveSirRobin - 1 (Michi)
Cozmikrae - 1 (Human Dawn)
Interestingly, Vro and Wisch are the only two who voted for TGN against Sapph, but not against Kane. Dunno if that means anything.
I don't think Doc and Vro are aligned. Doc has a pretty bad voting history actually. But I don't know if he's one to bus or not, because the Silver lynch was prime bussing opportunity.
Looking at the votes on Silver (Red Mones, Vroendal, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh, Sapphiron, Minish, Michi, Melehan, Cozmikrae), it looks like a pretty decent list actually.
I know I'm town, I really believe Red to be town, Anubhav seems town, Sapph is flipped town, Michi seems town, Melehan is flipped town, and I'm kinda town leaning Cozmik at the moment. So that just leaves Vro and Gerrick as the unknowns though I'm also kinda town leaning Vro even though I'm a bit paranoid about him.
Interestingly, I was just searching the print page to see if I could find where Gerrick's vote actually fell on Silver and I found a reads list that I'll talk about in a separate post. But it kind of makes me suspicious of him.
Oh fuck me, I just remembered looking back how bad Gerrick's vote on Silver was. Dunno how I forgot this. I had broken the tie between Silver/Vro and Gerrick voted after me. But he only voted because he said he would to prove he and Silver weren't connected and Red told him to prove it. I felt not great about that at the time and it completely slipped my mind.
Nevermind this post has turned into looking at Gerrick, so gonna post the reads list here.SpoilerQuoteLean Town
Wintermoot: Reads very similar to how he played last game when he was town.
Nyght: Seems to genuinely try to get the hang of this as a new player out in the open rather than talking to fellow wolves in private chat were he scum, so I'm town-reading him.
Kane: Seems to be genuinely helpful and trying to find scum.
Wischland: Appears to be acting the same as last game (which involved jumping on bandwagons) when she was town. Would like to hear more from her.
Dawcreek: Has yet to post. This lines up with last game (when he was town) where he ended up backing out of the game because it was overwhelming. I expect the same to happen again, unfortunately.
Minish: Making some really good points on people and sussing them out/asking people for meta.
Vroendal: Going a little hard on Michi considering the meta evidence (metevidence?) isn't as strong as he believes it is, but he is going hard on people like last game when he was town. I don't see the links between players he's talking about, though.
Neutral
Alexander Valentine: Has not posted, but has been online. Again, a new person, so understandable if he's overwhelmed.
Doc: Has made some reasonable points on suspicions. Looking a little more town than last game when he was scum.
cozmik: People are unfortunately fixated on her joke vote on Red (I know how that goes all too well). Don't like the whole "playing my strategy close to the chest" bit, which in general is not good for town, but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt right now since she's new here, and hounding on the new players is no fun.
Melehan: At first went hard on the RP chaos aspect (I assume she's taking a page from Hapi's playstyle after she read last game), which makes me lean scum, but then later she seemed to be really digging and coming to some of the same conclusions I am on people.
Hapi: I find her accusations against cozmik to be weak, but other than that there's not much to go on besides the memes. Hard to read Hapi.
Ruguo: Has spoken quite a bit but has been pretty shallow in their suspects, but I find their recent analysis prompted by Vro to be reasonable.
Red Mones: I don't buy the accusation that he's knowingly protecting cozmik because he's scum -- I'd do the same thing in his place. He has been playing very defensively, though, and I don't like how he doesn't have a vote in right now.
TGN: I don't think anyone can comprehend his actions. He seems to be on a level higher than everyone else, and his chaotic tendencies rival Hapi's.
Ogun: Has only made one post showing worry about the amount of posts to catch up on. Hope he ends up reading through it all and making a vote like he did last game as town. If not, he'll move to the scum section for me.
ENE: Posted a copypasta about why everyone should vote D1 then hasn't voted or even posted beyond that. He did turn out to be town last game while being quiet, though, so that might just be his style.
Lean Scum
Michi: Honestly, I'm surprised my vote turned into a wagon, but I'm sure as hell not gonna change my vote in case he turns out to be scum (someone's gotta die anyway). But his reactions to the wagon are kinda rubbing me the wrong way, luckily. Although his non-vote appears to be NAI in his case, he seems to really want everyone to be more quiet and less aggressive, which is usually better for the wolves.
BSR: Made a post asking about roles, and that's it. Tried to look helpful before falling back into the shadows? He's been online...
Sapphiron: Voted based on "RNG", and then stated we shouldn't take D1 discussion as very important, but that's it. Everything's important this early on, so don't know why he'd downplay it already (understandable later on, though)
Okay so, I colored the flips from his list and this is from d1. But, the contents of the list are interesting and seem vaguely familiar to how I'll do reads lists as scum sometimes in that he throws a few people who he knows are town in the town reads, has some nulls to be able to throw some sus on later, and then lists 3 scum leans. I find the list interesting for d1, because he has 3 scum leans and quite a few town leans already. But also the fact that of his town reads (Winter, Nyght, Kane, Wisch, Dawcreek/Anubhav, Me, and Vro), there are some very iffy reads in there and a few people I'm currently unsure about. I know I'm town and I believe Nyght and Anubhav to be town. But the ones that are interesting are Winter, Kane, and Wisch who he gives shallow reasons for town reading, who hadn't posted as much as a lot of people in his nulls, and who are still in PoE at the moment.
Gerrick had a bunch of people in his neutrals that had posted quite a bit, and he even reads some of them a certain way (ie, saying Doc seems townier than last game) yet that's not enough to read them but he had enough to read Winter, Kane, and Wisch?
As for his scum leans, we already know Sapph was town, Michi seems to look town, and BSR is an unknown. Though Gerrick did stay off the two town wagons of Sapph/TGN d3 and voted BSR instead, so I'm kinda feeling maybe BSR is town that scum was trying to make an easy mislynch push on now...
I think I'd feel pretty good about voting Gerrick today.
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 05:15:08 PM
Gerrick/HD Post
The way I'm reading Sapphiron's poem is as if he were in the point of view of one of the people he scanned. Unless there's an encrypted message as others seem to be trying to decode, it seems that there's only one player being talked about in the poem.poem for referenceLife’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
If we assume he scanned Melehan Night 1 based on this (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156505#msg156505), and he died on Night 3, that means he had only scanned one other person on Night 2. My guess is that the poem is about this person.
The way it reads to me is that the curtains unfolding are the start of the game, and "quick be at the center" could mean someone jumping out to be in the spotlight. If you go back to the start of the game, you'll notice that this very easily fits Red Mones' first post. "From the sides here comes your fellow actors" could then just mean that the rest of the players entered the game following this. "Look at the script! Remember be genuine": after Red's initial post, he goes for something more serious/helpful. "Audience dislikes the boring or brazen / To tear in merry and grin in dismal" could refer to his behaviour which was neither quiet nor very agressive, while the latter could refer to the amount of emojis he uses. "Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle / No, no, you have it backward" could refer to how he was initially very active ("staying on stage" rather than "reaching for the aisle"), but in Day 3 he went very quiet ("reaching for the aisle" rather than "staying on stage").
This would give me the impression that Sapphiron scanned Red Mones and with the whole acting theme going on that he is scum. HOWEVER, with this post (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156707#msg156707) (which took place pretty early on Day 3 as if he wanted to leave a clue to clear Red), it appears that he's hinting that he's town. Ergo concordantly vis a vis, I believe that Red Mones is town.
Unless somebody else can scrape something from that poem or perhaps plug a different player into it that works out a little clearer.
This post is the best analysis of the poem - I agree that Red Mones was likely the check here. It could not have been... but I town read Red Mones enough that I don't really care if it actually wasn't right now.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 05:25:28 PM
However, Gerrick and Red look good from this ARGHHHHHHHHHGerrick/HD PostThe way I'm reading Sapphiron's poem is as if he were in the point of view of one of the people he scanned. Unless there's an encrypted message as others seem to be trying to decode, it seems that there's only one player being talked about in the poem.poem for referenceLife’s a theatre we enter into,
And here’s a sneak peak to our grand preview,
Curtains unfold quick be at the centre,
From the sides here comes your fellow actors.
Look at the script! Remember be genuine,
Audience dislikes the boring or brazen,
To tear in merry and grin in dismal,
Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle.
No, no, you have it backward,
Welcome to an absurdist stage staged for the absurd.
If we assume he scanned Melehan Night 1 based on this (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156505#msg156505), and he died on Night 3, that means he had only scanned one other person on Night 2. My guess is that the poem is about this person.
The way it reads to me is that the curtains unfolding are the start of the game, and "quick be at the center" could mean someone jumping out to be in the spotlight. If you go back to the start of the game, you'll notice that this very easily fits Red Mones' first post. "From the sides here comes your fellow actors" could then just mean that the rest of the players entered the game following this. "Look at the script! Remember be genuine": after Red's initial post, he goes for something more serious/helpful. "Audience dislikes the boring or brazen / To tear in merry and grin in dismal" could refer to his behaviour which was neither quiet nor very agressive, while the latter could refer to the amount of emojis he uses. "Stay on stage and don’t reach for the aisle / No, no, you have it backward" could refer to how he was initially very active ("staying on stage" rather than "reaching for the aisle"), but in Day 3 he went very quiet ("reaching for the aisle" rather than "staying on stage").
This would give me the impression that Sapphiron scanned Red Mones and with the whole acting theme going on that he is scum. HOWEVER, with this post (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg156707#msg156707) (which took place pretty early on Day 3 as if he wanted to leave a clue to clear Red), it appears that he's hinting that he's town. Ergo concordantly vis a vis, I believe that Red Mones is town.
Unless somebody else can scrape something from that poem or perhaps plug a different player into it that works out a little clearer.
This post is the best analysis of the poem - I agree that Red Mones was likely the check here. It could not have been... but I town read Red Mones enough that I don't really care if it actually wasn't right now.
To be completely honest, no matter who the wolves are at this point I think every player has done at least one thing that would probably have made me town read them in a normal game. I'm genuinely a little stumped that there's nobody I really have below a null read any more.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 05:26:08 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 05:33:42 PM
Vro, where are you in terms of your reads right now if you don't mind?I'm trying to figure those out now, and I'm having the greatest difficulty ranking my town leans, I actually don't have anything near a set list for them anymore. This is a little rough, but here's where I'm at right now.
Town Core -
ExLight
Red
Town Leans -
Gerrick
Nyght
Legacy
Wintermoot
Doc
Anubhav
Null -
Michi
I'm a little afraid of a Legacy/Anubhav/Michi team at this moment in time to be completely honest, Legacy, but I'm still not really seeing it.
Post by: Gerrick on February 23, 2021, 05:37:54 PM
I'll personally say that it wouldn't be a big deal for me to get lynched. It wouldn't be good since I'm still town, but it wouldn't be as big of a deal as if, say, a Defender got lynched.
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 06:06:49 PM
Scum actually votes scumbuds a lot during RVS, so I don’t see why Silver wouldn’t do that. It’s NAI if not slightly scummy.Does this extend to a scum actually being Michi? Because in that case I will be extremely... irritated at myself.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 06:15:31 PM
Why don't both the Defenders just soft, so that we know who they are. That way they can just defend themselves at night, we don't lynch them during the day, and it'll show us that either Vroendal really is a Defender or he's lying and we get an easy scum lynch?The issue is that softs are, as the name says, soft and might go unnoticed. Player have also been mildly inactive, so a real defender might miss this.
I'll personally say that it wouldn't be a big deal for me to get lynched. It wouldn't be good since I'm still town, but it wouldn't be as big of a deal as if, say, a Defender got lynched.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 06:15:42 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 06:18:36 PM
Ex, I have never seen a tunnel this long, even from myself. You take my every action and try your best to work it against me, ignoring the previous points you had seen in my favor. You refuse to believe anything I say or even consider the course of action if I flip town besides jumping off a cliff and throwing yourself in a volcano.About 70% of my tunnels turn out to be right. You’re the only lynch that makes sense here, and you know you had to die and even so managed to get a mislynch last second despite knowing your flip could clear or doom multiple players.
I don't mock players, and especially not in thread, I perhaps tease them, but it's not malicious like you're making it sound. Every player is different because every person is different, just because I'm doing things that make me seem scummy to you does not mean that I'm scum. They can be accounted for by mental state, gameplay differences, gameplay perspective, experience, and just a different brain in general.
Stop tunneling just for one hour, I understand if you want to lynch me, but this tunneling is highly, highly detrimental to town.
If you’re a defender you just shot Town in the head by making coz and Red save your ass.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 06:19:54 PM
HE WASNT SUPPOSED TO BE WALKING AROUND SINCE D5, BUT STILL HERE THREE CYCLES LATER POCKETING EVERYONE AND GETTING AWAY WITH THESE ABSURD CLAIMS
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 06:21:01 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 06:21:15 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 06:26:22 PM
And again I really don't see how my lynch will clear or doom anyone, the arguments you've been making about my scum team/who you'll vote next if I'm town has been all WIFOM as far as I'm concerned. I don't know who it is, I've been floundering around since D2. The only thing my lynch will do is close the PoE tighter, which I don't need to necessarily be dead for town to do, and bring the wolves that much closer to winning.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 06:30:12 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 06:31:35 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 06:32:53 PM
Because that's a disgusting feeling for me, and shooting-town-in-the-foot from my perspective.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 06:33:19 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 06:35:28 PM
Are you saying I need to be lynched today, Legacy?I don't support lynching you today, but if you're town then we are essentially at ELO and we need to pick correctly today.
Because that's a disgusting feeling for me, and shooting-town-in-the-foot from my perspective.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 06:37:09 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 06:38:32 PM
I don't support lynching you today, but if you're town then we are essentially at ELO and we need to pick correctly today.Yup. That is where we are. I would be up for investigation and subsequent lynching of Michi, Moot, Gerrick, and Anubhav.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 06:46:33 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 06:47:29 PM
you’re scum that wants to take down as many as possible before having your ass in the line
Post by: Gerrick on February 23, 2021, 06:50:42 PM
I still don't buy his soft claim. I agree with ExLight that it just came too late to be real.
Also, Vro, how'd you go from having me be #3 most town to #3 most scum over the course of an hour. XD
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 06:54:59 PM
My investigation list isn't ordered according to my suspicions I never said you were scum.
I think you can answer that question for yourself Gerrick if you reason it out long enough.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 06:56:22 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 06:57:58 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 06:58:26 PM
I think we all need to take a step back and look at the events of the earlier days.EBWOB I apologize, it isn't ordered according to my suspicions it's ordered according to my priorities in figuring out.
My investigation list isn't ordered according to my suspicions I never said you were scum.
I think you can answer that question for yourself Gerrick if you reason it out long enough.
I've given up on Ex. I'm gonna be ridiculed in the graveyard, not fun.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 07:02:25 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 07:05:06 PM
I can feeeeel the judgment. *shudders*
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 07:07:19 PM
Post by: Laurentus on February 23, 2021, 07:09:17 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 07:10:52 PM
Reminder that role revealing is absolutely forbidden.
Is softing cool or just no hinting at all? Also thanks for the vote update!
And yeah sorry I meant doctor. Used to a bit different terms than y'all like calling it cop instead of seer.
Nyght is also my top town read.
If it is a very, very soft claim, then sure. But what I'm going for here is that people need to try and come up with clear, rational arguments for who they find sus or or inno.
I think that asking the defenders to soft is the best play but we should first wait for Laurentus to clarify the rules I think. This is what I found so far (as well as "role revealing is ambiguous") so I would rather us wait to be safe rather than sorry on things that are on the verge of the rules like this. The absolute last thing we want is defenders getting modkilled.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 07:12:02 PM
Speaking of Laurentus, please would you clarify if this is allowed?Reminder that role revealing is absolutely forbidden.
Is softing cool or just no hinting at all? Also thanks for the vote update!
And yeah sorry I meant doctor. Used to a bit different terms than y'all like calling it cop instead of seer.
Nyght is also my top town read.
If it is a very, very soft claim, then sure. But what I'm going for here is that people need to try and come up with clear, rational arguments for who they find sus or or inno.
I think that asking the defenders to soft is the best play but we should first wait for Laurentus to clarify the rules I think. This is what I found so far (as well as "role revealing is ambiguous") so I would rather us wait to be safe rather than sorry on things that are on the verge of the rules like this. The absolute last thing we want is defenders getting modkilled.
Post by: Laurentus on February 23, 2021, 07:16:30 PM
Post by: Laurentus on February 23, 2021, 07:47:39 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 23, 2021, 07:56:20 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 08:00:19 PM
So this certainly leaves us in a precarious position.Nyght, if I had to ask you to pick 1-3 people who you think are likely to be wolves right now who would you pick?
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 08:01:15 PM
It isn’t considered a softclaim because it prods all players to do the same, masking any possible claim. It’s more so we get information whenever a Power Role dies.
Post by: Laurentus on February 23, 2021, 08:06:15 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 23, 2021, 08:40:09 PM
So this certainly leaves us in a precarious position.Nyght, if I had to ask you to pick 1-3 people who you think are likely to be wolves right now who would you pick?
Moot, Vro, and red. In no particular order.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 08:40:47 PM
Ok, so here’s the plan: we had 3 nights so far where no kill happened. We know that each person protected by a defender has a significantly higher chance of being town, and if both defenders protected the same person it pretty much means that person is cleared. This kinda messes a bit with scum because if they kill the defenders they might clear someone, and if they don’t they might keep getting blocked.
To get these information from the Defenders out, we can speculate by saying who we’d’ve targeted if we were the Defenders, or who we think was protected during these nights. The Defenders are then able to share their actions in a way that is hidden in their messages, and that will get exposed if scum kills them.
Here’s an example with a list of who I would’ve targeted:
Night 1 - No Protection
Night 3 - Minish
Night 7 - Legacy of Smiles
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 08:42:51 PM
I can't restrict people from theorising who the night targets might have been in the thread.Hey Nyghts are you voting Vro already?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 23, 2021, 08:45:57 PM
Night 3 - Red Mones
Night 7 - ExLight
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 08:59:51 PM
@NyghtOwl @Anubhav Ghosh
@Gerrick @Wintermoot @Doc
Town might lose depending on what happens toDay. I know this sort of game can be draining but try to be significantly active in the endgame.
All Town has to get on the same wavelength and coordinate not only plans but votes. The style in endgame changes a lot and votes have to be cast upon discussion rather than relying on last second votes like early game, so please don’t just pop during EoD and disappear.
Post by: Gerrick on February 23, 2021, 09:26:27 PM
Night 3: Red Mones
Night 7: Legacy of Smiles
Post by: HumanDawn on February 23, 2021, 10:21:21 PM
(https://meritreview.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/belly.png)
(https://projectfandom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Attack-on-Titan-S1E22-The-Fallen-Scouts-580x326.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/af/7b/60af7b2fdee76a64e1d02039777862f3.jpg)
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 11:01:09 PM
Part 1 -
D1 Voting Record
D1 -
Red Mones (1) - Hapi
Hapi (1) - Red Mones
Hapi (2) - Melehan
Red Mones (2) - cozmikrae
Wintermoot (1) - NyghtOwl
Doc (1) - Ruguo
Vroendal (1) - Sapphiron
Michi (1) - Gerrick
Sapphiron (1) - TGN
Melehan (1) - Red Mones (this brings Hapi to (1) - Melehan)
Melehan (0) - (Red Mones Unvotes)
Michi (2) - Vroendal
Michi (3) - Ruguo (this brings Doc to (0))
Michi (3) - (TGN Unvotes despite not having voted him in the first place, this brings Sapphiron to (0)?)
Hapi (2) - NyghtOwl (this brings Wintermoot to (0))
Laurentus (1) - TGN
No Lynch (1) - Imaginative Kane
cozmikrae (1) - Hapi (this brings Red Mones to (1) - cozmikrae)
Hapi (3) - Doc
Hapi (4) - (cozmikrae, this brings Red Mones to (0))
Laurentus (0) - (TGN Unvotes)
Michi (4) - Wischland
BraveSirRobin (1) - Imaginative Kane (this brings No Lynch to (0))
Michi (5) - Minish
Red Mones (1) - Wintermoot
Red Mones (2) - Minish (this brings Michi to (4) - Gerrick, Vroendal, Ruguo, Wischland)
Michi (5) - Minish (this brings Red Mones to (1) - Wintermoot)
Hapi (4) - cozmikrae
Michi (4) - Vroendal Unvotes
Michi (5) - Vroendal
Ruguo (1) - Red Mones
Michi (4) - Vroendal Unvotes
Red Mones (1) - Hapi
Hapi (1) - Red Mones
Hapi (2) - Melehan
Red Mones (2) - cozmikrae
Wintermoot (1) - NyghtOwl
Doc (1) - Ruguo
Vroendal (1) - Sapphiron
Michi (1) - Gerrick
Sapphiron (1) - TGN
Melehan (1) - Red Mones (this brings Hapi to (1) - Melehan)
Melehan (0) - (Red Mones Unvotes)
Michi (2) - Vroendal
Michi (3) - Ruguo (this brings Doc to (0))
Michi (3) - (TGN Unvotes despite not having voted him in the first place, this brings Sapphiron to (0)?)
Hapi (2) - NyghtOwl (this brings Wintermoot to (0))
Laurentus (1) - TGN
No Lynch (1) - Imaginative Kane
cozmikrae (1) - Hapi (this brings Red Mones to (1) - cozmikrae)
Hapi (3) - Doc
Hapi (4) - (cozmikrae, this brings Red Mones to (0))
Laurentus (0) - (TGN Unvotes)
Michi (4) - Wischland
BraveSirRobin (1) - Imaginative Kane (this brings No Lynch to (0))
Michi (5) - Minish
Red Mones (1) - Wintermoot
Red Mones (2) - Minish (this brings Michi to (4) - Gerrick, Vroendal, Ruguo, Wischland)
Michi (5) - Minish (this brings Red Mones to (1) - Wintermoot)
Hapi (4) - cozmikrae
Michi (4) - Vroendal Unvotes
Michi (5) - Vroendal
Ruguo (1) - Red Mones
Michi (4) - Vroendal Unvotes
D1 Final Vote Count
The final vote count of D1 is as follows -
Hapi (4) - (Melehan, NyghtOwl, Doc, cozmikrae)
Vroendal (1) - (Sapphiron)
Michi (4) - (Gerrick, Ruguo, Wischland, Minish)
cozmikrae (1) - (Hapi)
BraveSirRobin (1) - (Imaginative Kane)
Red Mones (1) - (Wintermoot)
Ruguo (1) - (Red Mones)
No Vote - Vroendal, Anubhav, Michi, BraveSirRobin, TGN, Ogun/Legacy, Alexander/ExLight, ENE/HumanDawn
Hapi was lynched in the coinflip between her and Michi.
Hapi (4) - (Melehan, NyghtOwl, Doc, cozmikrae)
Vroendal (1) - (Sapphiron)
Michi (4) - (Gerrick, Ruguo, Wischland, Minish)
cozmikrae (1) - (Hapi)
BraveSirRobin (1) - (Imaginative Kane)
Red Mones (1) - (Wintermoot)
Ruguo (1) - (Red Mones)
No Vote - Vroendal, Anubhav, Michi, BraveSirRobin, TGN, Ogun/Legacy, Alexander/ExLight, ENE/HumanDawn
Hapi was lynched in the coinflip between her and Michi.
D2 Voting Record
D2 -
Wintermoot (1) - TGN
Wintermoot (0) - TGN Unvotes
Vroendal (1) - Doc
TGN (1) - cozmikrae
Vroendal (2) - Gerrick
TGN (2) - Sapphiron
Ruguo (1) - Minish
Sapphiron (1) - TGN
TGN (3) - Minish (this brings Ruguo to (0))
TGN (4) - Ruguo
Sapphiron (2) - Melehan
TGN (5) - TGN (this brings Sapphiron to (1) - Melehan)
TGN (6) - Vroendal
Vroendal (3) - BraveSirRobin
TGN (5) - TGN Unvotes
ENE/HumanDawn (1) - ENE/HumanDawn
Ruguo (1) - Melehan (this brings Sapphiron to (0))
Doc (1) - TGN
Vroendal (4) - Wintermoot
Vroendal (5) - cozmikrae (this brings TGN to (4) - Saphhiron, Minish, Ruguo, Vroendal)
Vroendal (6) - NyghtOwl
Alexander/ExLight (1) - Michi
Ruguo (2) - Red Mones
Vroendal (7) - Ruguo (this brings TGN to (3) - Sapphiron, Minish, Vroendal)
No Lynch (1) - cozmikrae (this brings Vroendal to (6) - Doc, Gerrick, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Ruguo)
Ruguo (3) - Vroendal (this brings TGN to (2) - Sapphiron, Minish)
Ruguo (4) - cozmikrae (this brings No Lynch to (0))
Ruguo (5) - Sapphiron (this brings TGN to (1) - Minish)
Ruguo (6) - Michi (this brings Alexander/ExLight to (0))
TGN (0) - Minish Unvotes
Ruguo (7) - Minish
Ruguo (8 ) - Gerrick (this brings Vroendal to (5) - Doc, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Ruguo)
BraveSirRobin (1) - Imaginative Kane
Ruguo (9) - Anubhav
Wintermoot (1) - TGN
Wintermoot (0) - TGN Unvotes
Vroendal (1) - Doc
TGN (1) - cozmikrae
Vroendal (2) - Gerrick
TGN (2) - Sapphiron
Ruguo (1) - Minish
Sapphiron (1) - TGN
TGN (3) - Minish (this brings Ruguo to (0))
TGN (4) - Ruguo
Sapphiron (2) - Melehan
TGN (5) - TGN (this brings Sapphiron to (1) - Melehan)
TGN (6) - Vroendal
Vroendal (3) - BraveSirRobin
TGN (5) - TGN Unvotes
ENE/HumanDawn (1) - ENE/HumanDawn
Ruguo (1) - Melehan (this brings Sapphiron to (0))
Doc (1) - TGN
Vroendal (4) - Wintermoot
Vroendal (5) - cozmikrae (this brings TGN to (4) - Saphhiron, Minish, Ruguo, Vroendal)
Vroendal (6) - NyghtOwl
Alexander/ExLight (1) - Michi
Ruguo (2) - Red Mones
Vroendal (7) - Ruguo (this brings TGN to (3) - Sapphiron, Minish, Vroendal)
No Lynch (1) - cozmikrae (this brings Vroendal to (6) - Doc, Gerrick, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Ruguo)
Ruguo (3) - Vroendal (this brings TGN to (2) - Sapphiron, Minish)
Ruguo (4) - cozmikrae (this brings No Lynch to (0))
Ruguo (5) - Sapphiron (this brings TGN to (1) - Minish)
Ruguo (6) - Michi (this brings Alexander/ExLight to (0))
TGN (0) - Minish Unvotes
Ruguo (7) - Minish
Ruguo (8 ) - Gerrick (this brings Vroendal to (5) - Doc, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Ruguo)
BraveSirRobin (1) - Imaginative Kane
Ruguo (9) - Anubhav
D2 Final Vote Count
The final vote count of D2 is as follows -
Vroendal (5) - (Doc, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Ruguo)
Eastern New England/HumanDawn (1) - (Self)
Ruguo (9) - (Melehan, Red Mones, Vroendal, cozmikrae, Sapphiron, Michi, Minish, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh)
Doc (1) - (TGN)
BraveSirRobin (1) - (Imaginative Kane)
No Vote - Wischland, Ogun/Legacy, Alexander/ExLight
Ruguo was lynched.
Vroendal (5) - (Doc, BraveSirRobin, Wintermoot, NyghtOwl, Ruguo)
Eastern New England/HumanDawn (1) - (Self)
Ruguo (9) - (Melehan, Red Mones, Vroendal, cozmikrae, Sapphiron, Michi, Minish, Gerrick, Anubhav Ghosh)
Doc (1) - (TGN)
BraveSirRobin (1) - (Imaginative Kane)
No Vote - Wischland, Ogun/Legacy, Alexander/ExLight
Ruguo was lynched.
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 11:08:36 PM
you already softed Doc and isnt going to out the targets? do you realize how off that is?
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 11:10:10 PM
where’s your damn list VroWell excuse me, I was working.
you already softed Doc and isnt going to out the targets? do you realize how off that is?
Night 1 - Gerrick
Night 3 - Red Mones
Night 7 - Legacy of Smiles
Post by: ExLight on February 23, 2021, 11:12:35 PM
Post by: Vroendal on February 23, 2021, 11:21:08 PM
Why did you think scum would go for Gerrick N1?Process of elimination mostly. I definitely think that any new players, guests, and returnees from long ago wouldn't be killed first, even Minish, though I think next game she'd be on the chopping block.
That leaves - Red, myself, Gerrick, Sapph, Michi, Kane, BSR, Moot, and Doc.
Red hosted last game he needs some gameplay, BSR was very silent and had taken fire, Sapph was very silent and had taken fire, I was for certain going to take fire for my unvote, and Michi had been under suspicion. It doesn't feel like Doc or Moot would be attacked, they didn't have a huge impact on my feelings on their alignment either way.
That leaves Gerrick, who would also be a great kill because he's a stronger town player, he's survived to the end of several games in a row so it's about his time, his reads-list was very thorough and posting it felt like a townie thing to do, and his tone seemed good.
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 12:12:04 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 24, 2021, 12:17:28 AM
Ok, so here’s yet ANOTHER inconsistency. If you were the Defender as successfully blocked a kill you’d know Gerrick a much higher chance of being town. Yet when Minish and Red pushed him at the end of EoD by accusing him of protecting Silver not only you stayed quiet but you liked their posts.50% is 50%. I wouldn't get caught in the trap of implicitly believing all those I would have defended on nights with no kills. It's foolishness to completely discount those targets forever afterward, and N1 has the greatest possible options to kill from.
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 12:26:20 AM
It’s not 50/50, lol. Without a kill even being stopped the chances of him being Town at D2 were 16/20 aka 75%. If you really were a defender his odds would be even higher like 90%+.Ok, so here’s yet ANOTHER inconsistency. If you were the Defender as successfully blocked a kill you’d know Gerrick a much higher chance of being town. Yet when Minish and Red pushed him at the end of EoD by accusing him of protecting Silver not only you stayed quiet but you liked their posts.50% is 50%. I wouldn't get caught in the trap of implicitly believing all those I would have defended on nights with no kills. It's foolishness to completely discount those targets forever afterward, and N1 has the greatest possible options to kill from.
Don’t come with this “I’m not going to clear anyone” argument because if you see an allegedly townread that might’ve been targeted for a nightkill being pushed the natural thing isn’t to go “oh well I guess there’s a minuscule chance of them being scum”. That’s as absurd as watching someone with a green check get mislynched because there was a chance of them being godfather.
Post by: Vroendal on February 24, 2021, 12:34:11 AM
It’s not 50/50, lol. Without a kill even being stopped the chances of him being Town at D2 were 16/20 aka 75%. If you really were a defender his odds would be even higher like 90%+.Yeah, but that has nothing to do with discounting decent arguments against him. The likelihood that the target a Defender chose during a night when there was a kill (and we don't even know that for sure but I'm proceeding if it is) was attacked and defended by that Defender is 50%.
Don’t come with this “I’m not going to clear anyone” argument because if you see an allegedly townread that might’ve been targeted for a nightkill being pushed the natural thing isn’t to go “oh well I guess there’s a minuscule chance of them being scum”. That’s as absurd as watching someone with a green check get mislynched because there was a chance of them being godfather.
At the beginning of the game there is always a higher chance that someone is town than scum because there are that many more townies. That doesn't mean anything here.
Only the Seer can clear someone for certain. Consistencies that you fail to discount are that I have not yet voted Gerrick despite a very high early town read voting him, that I've been town-reading him explicitly since D2, and I have advocated for him at points.
Post by: Red Mones on February 24, 2021, 12:36:21 AM
Vote: Vroendal
This discussion has been far better proving Vro is scum then the past couple days combined lol. Shoulda listened the first time.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 12:36:50 AM
Not making a point here I just really enjoy maths/statistics and it was already brought up so I thought I might as well work it out and share.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 12:45:45 AM
Purely out of curiosity and not to make a point, if you're a defender and successfully protect a player who has exactly rand chances of being town on N1 (16/20 so 80%) then you have an 89.5% of your target being town assuming the other defender uses a random number generator to pick their target, including themselves. This percentage us higher when you account for reads from both yourself and the other defender.I forgot to account for the defender knowing that they themselves are town oops.
Not making a point here I just really enjoy maths/statistics and it was already brought up so I thought I might as well work it out and share.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 12:46:47 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 24, 2021, 12:48:16 AM
Oooooooooooooooooooooookkkkkkkk, yeahThe proof is in the pudding. My patience is starting to wear thin.
Vote: Vroendal
This discussion has been far better proving Vro is scum then the past couple days combined lol. Shoulda listened the first time.
I don't know who it is and I don't think I'll be able to figure it out by the time I'm lynched. I'll continue with the voting records until the time when maj is reached or EoD occurs.
Congratulations to the wolves, y'all deserve the win.
Vote - Michi
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 12:53:35 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 12:54:57 AM
Oh well, I'm sure nobody will notice if I don't say anything.*notices your math error* OwO what’s this?
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 01:01:34 AM
I came into today thinking I'd never vote Vro and would probably start a counterwagon elsewhere. Going to sleep on it because I'm now genuinely stumped on what the best course is. Will be back in the morning.Town only has a chance here if we work together. If people keep the scattered behavior scum can take control of the votes again, don’t give them that breach.
Hesitating here will also make people unsure about you if he flips scum.
Post by: Vroendal on February 24, 2021, 01:15:01 AM
Fine, proceed with the assumption I'll be lynched. What next? Plan it out, don't waste time arguing. I believe town can still give it a good go. ^-^I came into today thinking I'd never vote Vro and would probably start a counterwagon elsewhere. Going to sleep on it because I'm now genuinely stumped on what the best course is. Will be back in the morning.Town only has a chance here if we work together. If people keep the scattered behavior scum can take control of the votes again, don’t give them that breach.
Hesitating here will also make people unsure about you if he flips scum.
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 01:31:23 AM
I have to recheck stuff. It depends a lot on who will be here lynching you.Fine, proceed with the assumption I'll be lynched. What next? Plan it out, don't waste time arguing. I believe town can still give it a good go. ^-^I came into today thinking I'd never vote Vro and would probably start a counterwagon elsewhere. Going to sleep on it because I'm now genuinely stumped on what the best course is. Will be back in the morning.Town only has a chance here if we work together. If people keep the scattered behavior scum can take control of the votes again, don’t give them that breach.
Hesitating here will also make people unsure about you if he flips scum.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 24, 2021, 01:56:42 AM
I have to recheck stuff. It depends a lot on who will be here lynching you.Fine, proceed with the assumption I'll be lynched. What next? Plan it out, don't waste time arguing. I believe town can still give it a good go. ^-^I came into today thinking I'd never vote Vro and would probably start a counterwagon elsewhere. Going to sleep on it because I'm now genuinely stumped on what the best course is. Will be back in the morning.Town only has a chance here if we work together. If people keep the scattered behavior scum can take control of the votes again, don’t give them that breach.
Hesitating here will also make people unsure about you if he flips scum.
Here's the thing, I'm ready to vote Vroendal off. But at the same time, I'm not here for this open threatening and intimidation. This whole, "vote the way I say or I'm coming for you and I'll make sure your next one to go."
Post by: Vroendal on February 24, 2021, 02:05:29 AM
D3 Voting Record
D3 -
Gerrick (1) - Red Mones
BraveSirRobin (1) - Sapphiron
BraveSirRobin (2) - Gerrick
BraveSirRobin (3) - Vroendal
Sapphiron (1) - ExLight
Sapphiron (2) - Minish
TGN (1) - cozmikrae
TGN (2) - Doc
TGN (3) - ExLight (this brings Sapphiron to (1) - Minish)
Imaginative Kane (1) - Legacy
Sapphiron (2) - HumanDawn
Sapphiron (3) - Legacy (this brings Imaginative Kane to (0))
TGN (4) - Wischland
BraveSirRobin (4) - TGN
Sapphiron (4) - Vroendal (this brings BraveSirRobin to (3) - Sapphiron, Gerrick, TGN)
TGN (5) - Saphhiron (this brings BraveSirRobin to (2) - Gerrick, TGN)
Sapphiron (5) - TGN (this brings BraveSirRobin to (1) - Gerrick)
BraveSirRobin (2) - NyghtOwl
Sapphiron (6) - Wintermoot
Sapphiron (7) - Imaginative Kane
TGN (6) - BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin (3) - Vroendal (this brings Sapphiron to (6) - Minish, HumanDawn, Legacy, TGN, Wintermoot, Imaginative Kane)
Sapphiron (7) - Anubhav
TGN (7) - Vroendal (this brings BraveSirRobin to (2) - Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
Sapphiron (6) - Anubhav Unvotes
TGN (6) - cozmikrae Unvotes
No Lynch (1) - cozmikrae
Gerrick (1) - Red Mones
BraveSirRobin (1) - Sapphiron
BraveSirRobin (2) - Gerrick
BraveSirRobin (3) - Vroendal
Sapphiron (1) - ExLight
Sapphiron (2) - Minish
TGN (1) - cozmikrae
TGN (2) - Doc
TGN (3) - ExLight (this brings Sapphiron to (1) - Minish)
Imaginative Kane (1) - Legacy
Sapphiron (2) - HumanDawn
Sapphiron (3) - Legacy (this brings Imaginative Kane to (0))
TGN (4) - Wischland
BraveSirRobin (4) - TGN
Sapphiron (4) - Vroendal (this brings BraveSirRobin to (3) - Sapphiron, Gerrick, TGN)
TGN (5) - Saphhiron (this brings BraveSirRobin to (2) - Gerrick, TGN)
Sapphiron (5) - TGN (this brings BraveSirRobin to (1) - Gerrick)
BraveSirRobin (2) - NyghtOwl
Sapphiron (6) - Wintermoot
Sapphiron (7) - Imaginative Kane
TGN (6) - BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin (3) - Vroendal (this brings Sapphiron to (6) - Minish, HumanDawn, Legacy, TGN, Wintermoot, Imaginative Kane)
Sapphiron (7) - Anubhav
TGN (7) - Vroendal (this brings BraveSirRobin to (2) - Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
Sapphiron (6) - Anubhav Unvotes
TGN (6) - cozmikrae Unvotes
No Lynch (1) - cozmikrae
D3 Final Vote Count
The final vote count of D3 is as follows -
Gerrick (1) - (Red Mones)
BraveSirRobin (2) - (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
Sapphiron (6) - (Minish, HumanDawn, Legacy of Smiles, TGN, Wintermoot, Imaginative Kane)
TGN (6) - (Doc, ExLight, Vroendal, Wischland, Sapphiron, BraveSirRobin)
No Vote - Anubhav Ghosh, Michi
Sapphiron was lynched.
Gerrick (1) - (Red Mones)
BraveSirRobin (2) - (Gerrick, NyghtOwl)
Sapphiron (6) - (Minish, HumanDawn, Legacy of Smiles, TGN, Wintermoot, Imaginative Kane)
TGN (6) - (Doc, ExLight, Vroendal, Wischland, Sapphiron, BraveSirRobin)
No Vote - Anubhav Ghosh, Michi
Sapphiron was lynched.
D4 Voting Record
D4 -
BraveSirRobin (1) - Vroendal
cozmikrae (1) - HumanDawn
BraveSirRobin (0) - Vroendal Unvotes
TGN (1) - Doc
Doc (1) - Gerrick
Doc (0) - Gerrick Unvotes
BraveSirRobin (1) - Michi
TGN (2) - ExLight
TGN (3) - Minish
Imaginative Kane (1) - Legacy
Imaginative Kane (2) - Vroendal
TGN (4) - Red Mones
Imaginative Kane (3) - TGN
TGN (5) - Gerrick
Imaginative Kane (4) - cozmikrae
TGN (6) - Imaginative Kane
Imaginative Kane (5) - Wischland
Imaginative Kane (6) - Anubhav
TGN (7) - Wintermoot
TGN (8 ) - BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin (1) - Vroendal
cozmikrae (1) - HumanDawn
BraveSirRobin (0) - Vroendal Unvotes
TGN (1) - Doc
Doc (1) - Gerrick
Doc (0) - Gerrick Unvotes
BraveSirRobin (1) - Michi
TGN (2) - ExLight
TGN (3) - Minish
Imaginative Kane (1) - Legacy
Imaginative Kane (2) - Vroendal
TGN (4) - Red Mones
Imaginative Kane (3) - TGN
TGN (5) - Gerrick
Imaginative Kane (4) - cozmikrae
TGN (6) - Imaginative Kane
Imaginative Kane (5) - Wischland
Imaginative Kane (6) - Anubhav
TGN (7) - Wintermoot
TGN (8 ) - BraveSirRobin
D4 Final Vote Count
The final vote count of D4 is as follows -
cozmikrae (1) - (HumanDawn)
TGN (8 ) - (Doc, ExLight, Minish, Red Mones, Gerrick, Imaginative Kane, Wintermoot, BraveSirRobin)
BraveSirRobin (1) - (Michi)
Imaginative Kane (6) - (Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal, TGN, Wischland, cozmikrae, Anubhav Ghosh)
No Vote - NyghtOwl
TGN was lynched.
cozmikrae (1) - (HumanDawn)
TGN (8 ) - (Doc, ExLight, Minish, Red Mones, Gerrick, Imaginative Kane, Wintermoot, BraveSirRobin)
BraveSirRobin (1) - (Michi)
Imaginative Kane (6) - (Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal, TGN, Wischland, cozmikrae, Anubhav Ghosh)
No Vote - NyghtOwl
TGN was lynched.
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 02:12:00 AM
I’m not necessarily coming for him, but other players might because hesitation gives time which causes paranoia.I have to recheck stuff. It depends a lot on who will be here lynching you.Fine, proceed with the assumption I'll be lynched. What next? Plan it out, don't waste time arguing. I believe town can still give it a good go. ^-^I came into today thinking I'd never vote Vro and would probably start a counterwagon elsewhere. Going to sleep on it because I'm now genuinely stumped on what the best course is. Will be back in the morning.Town only has a chance here if we work together. If people keep the scattered behavior scum can take control of the votes again, don’t give them that breach.
Hesitating here will also make people unsure about you if he flips scum.
Here's the thing, I'm ready to vote Vroendal off. But at the same time, I'm not here for this open threatening and intimidation. This whole, "vote the way I say or I'm coming for you and I'll make sure your next one to go."
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 02:17:56 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 24, 2021, 03:06:26 AM
D5 Voting Record
D5 -
cozmikrae (1) - Gerrick
Imaginative Kane (1) - Legacy
Imaginative Kane (2) - Vroendal
Imaginative Kane (3) - cozmikrae
Vroendal (1) - ExLight
Gerrick (1) - Minish
Wintermoot (1) - NyghtOwl
Imaginative Kane (4) - Doc
Wintermoot (2) - Anubhav
Imaginative Kane (5) - Wischland
Wintermoot (2) - BraveSirRobin
Doc (1) - Wintermoot
Gerrick (2) - Red Mones
cozmikrae (1) - Gerrick
Imaginative Kane (1) - Legacy
Imaginative Kane (2) - Vroendal
Imaginative Kane (3) - cozmikrae
Vroendal (1) - ExLight
Gerrick (1) - Minish
Wintermoot (1) - NyghtOwl
Imaginative Kane (4) - Doc
Wintermoot (2) - Anubhav
Imaginative Kane (5) - Wischland
Wintermoot (2) - BraveSirRobin
Doc (1) - Wintermoot
Gerrick (2) - Red Mones
D5 Final Vote Count
The final vote count of D5 is as follows -
cozmikrae (1) - (Gerrick)
Imaginative Kane (5) - (Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal, cozmikrae, Doc, Wischland)
Wintermoot (3) - (Anubhav Ghosh, BraveSirRobin, NyghtOwl)
Vroendal (1) - (ExLight)
Gerrick (2) - (Minish, Red Mones)
Doc (1) - (Wintermoot)
No Vote - Michi, Imaginative Kane
Imaginative Kane was lynched.
cozmikrae (1) - (Gerrick)
Imaginative Kane (5) - (Legacy of Smiles, Vroendal, cozmikrae, Doc, Wischland)
Wintermoot (3) - (Anubhav Ghosh, BraveSirRobin, NyghtOwl)
Vroendal (1) - (ExLight)
Gerrick (2) - (Minish, Red Mones)
Doc (1) - (Wintermoot)
No Vote - Michi, Imaginative Kane
Imaginative Kane was lynched.
D6 Voting Record
D6 -
Wintermoot (1) - Anubhav
cozmikrae (1) - Gerrick
BraveSirRobin (1) - Michi
Doc (1) - Wintermoot
BraveSirRobin (2) - ExLight
Wintermoot (2) - Vroendal
Wintermoot (3) - Legacy
Wintermoot (4) - ExLight (this brings BraveSirRobin to (1) - Michi)
BraveSirRobin (3) - Wischland
BraveSirRobin (4) - Red Mones
BraveSirRobin (5) - ExLight (this brings Wintermoot to (3) - Anubhav, Vroendal, Legacy)
Gerrick (1) - cozmikrae
BraveSirRobin (6) - Gerrick
Wintermoot (1) - Anubhav
cozmikrae (1) - Gerrick
BraveSirRobin (1) - Michi
Doc (1) - Wintermoot
BraveSirRobin (2) - ExLight
Wintermoot (2) - Vroendal
Wintermoot (3) - Legacy
Wintermoot (4) - ExLight (this brings BraveSirRobin to (1) - Michi)
BraveSirRobin (3) - Wischland
BraveSirRobin (4) - Red Mones
BraveSirRobin (5) - ExLight (this brings Wintermoot to (3) - Anubhav, Vroendal, Legacy)
Gerrick (1) - cozmikrae
BraveSirRobin (6) - Gerrick
D6 Final Vote Count
The final vote count of D6 is as follows -
Wintermoot (3) - (Anubhav Ghosh, Vroendal, Legacy of Smiles)
BraveSirRobin (5) - (Michi, Wischland, Red Mones, ExLight, Gerrick)
Doc (1) - (Wintermoot)
Gerrick (1) - (Cozmikrae)
No Vote - NyghtOwl, Doc
BraveSirRobin was lynched.
Wintermoot (3) - (Anubhav Ghosh, Vroendal, Legacy of Smiles)
BraveSirRobin (5) - (Michi, Wischland, Red Mones, ExLight, Gerrick)
Doc (1) - (Wintermoot)
Gerrick (1) - (Cozmikrae)
No Vote - NyghtOwl, Doc
BraveSirRobin was lynched.
D7 Voting Record
D7 -
Vroendal (1) - ExLight
Wintermoot (1) - Vroendal
Wintermoot (2) - Doc
Wintermoot (1) - Vroendal Unvotes
Wischland (1) - Michi
Doc (1) - Wintermoot
Vroendal (2) - NyghtOwl
Wischland (2) - Vroendal
Gerrick (1) - cozmikrae
Doc (2) - Legacy
Doc (3) - ExLight (this brings Vroendal to (1) - NyghtOwl)
Wischland (3) - Doc
Doc (4) - Red Mones
Wischland (4) - Anubhav
Wischland (3) - Doc Unvotes
Doc (3) - Red Mones Unvotes
Doc (4) - Doc
Doc (5) - Wischland
Vroendal (2) - Gerrick
Vroendal (3) - Red Mones
Vroendal (4) - ExLight (this brings Doc to (4) - Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc, Wishland)
Vroendal (5) - Wischland (this brings Doc to (3) - Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc)
Wischland (4) - cozmikrae (this brings Gerrick to (0))
Vroendal (4) - Red Mones Unvotes
Vroendal (1) - ExLight
Wintermoot (1) - Vroendal
Wintermoot (2) - Doc
Wintermoot (1) - Vroendal Unvotes
Wischland (1) - Michi
Doc (1) - Wintermoot
Vroendal (2) - NyghtOwl
Wischland (2) - Vroendal
Gerrick (1) - cozmikrae
Doc (2) - Legacy
Doc (3) - ExLight (this brings Vroendal to (1) - NyghtOwl)
Wischland (3) - Doc
Doc (4) - Red Mones
Wischland (4) - Anubhav
Wischland (3) - Doc Unvotes
Doc (3) - Red Mones Unvotes
Doc (4) - Doc
Doc (5) - Wischland
Vroendal (2) - Gerrick
Vroendal (3) - Red Mones
Vroendal (4) - ExLight (this brings Doc to (4) - Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc, Wishland)
Vroendal (5) - Wischland (this brings Doc to (3) - Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc)
Wischland (4) - cozmikrae (this brings Gerrick to (0))
Vroendal (4) - Red Mones Unvotes
D7 Final Vote Count
The Final Vote Count of D7 is as follows -
Doc (3) - (Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc)
Vroendal (4) - (NyghtOwl, Gerrick, ExLight, Wischland)
Wischland (4) - (Michi, Vroendal, Anubhav Ghosh, cozmikrae)
No Vote - Red Mones
Wischland was lynched.
Doc (3) - (Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc)
Vroendal (4) - (NyghtOwl, Gerrick, ExLight, Wischland)
Wischland (4) - (Michi, Vroendal, Anubhav Ghosh, cozmikrae)
No Vote - Red Mones
Wischland was lynched.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 24, 2021, 03:26:14 AM
Why don't both the Defenders just soft, so that we know who they are. That way they can just defend themselves at night, we don't lynch them during the day, and it'll show us that either Vroendal really is a Defender or he's lying and we get an easy scum lynch?
I'll personally say that it wouldn't be a big deal for me to get lynched. It wouldn't be good since I'm still town, but it wouldn't be as big of a deal as if, say, a Defender got lynched.
At almost the closing moments of the game , if softing is done it might not be another roleclaim dilemma which was on BSR last time . However if one of the defender misses the soft and the scums don't , that could actually be a problem.
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 24, 2021, 03:34:59 AM
Night 3: Red
Mones
Night 7: Legacy of Smiles
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 24, 2021, 03:35:16 AM
Post by: Doc on February 24, 2021, 03:36:36 AM
What I've noticed though, Ex, since I'm basically just reading and not bothering to try to look at subtext anymore is that on the tone of your posts for today, and reaching back to the last couple days, is and has been incredibly frustrated, and while that's understandable given that I at least and probably most of town feels like we've collectively played real shit, at the same time that's probably doing a lot of damage to people's willingness to listen to your arguments, because it probably reminds them of exactly how badly it feels like we're playing (or comes across as attempts to intimidate, as with Nyght a little ways up).
At the same time, just on the basis of that tone I'm pretty much totally convinced you're town.
In contrast, Vro has seemed almost completely unruffled for most of this time, which seems kinda weird, but that confidence is probably a big contributing factor in why people have been kinda knuckling under to the narratives he's been pushing. I can't really say this is uncharacteristic, cause this is how he was behaving as town when Lau was pushing him, but at the same time town is also in a significantly worse position now than we were in the last game and that doesn't seem to faze him at all.
I'll wrap up with a votecount so people (realistically, Exlight) can know for sure who to push to make a hammer happen.
Votecount:
Vroendal (3) - Exlight (vote #1), Gerrick (vote #4), Red Mones (vote #5)
Doc (1) - Doc (vote #2)
Michi (1) - Vroendal (vote #5)
Majority lynch is at 6 votes; no votes yet from Anubhav, Michi, Wintermoot, Nyght, LoS
At almost the closing moments of the game , if softing is done it might not be another roleclaim dilemma which was on BSR last time . However if one of the defender misses the soft and the scums don't , that could actually be a problem.a reminder in case you missed it that Lau has explicitly banned any form of softing from this point on, presumably at threat of modkill
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 24, 2021, 03:37:02 AM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 24, 2021, 03:42:52 AM
I'm trying to at least keep up with the game so if I feel like getting back into it I can hop back on the train.
What I've noticed though, Ex, since I'm basically just reading and not bothering to try to look at subtext anymore is that on the tone of your posts for today, and reaching back to the last couple days, is and has been incredibly frustrated, and while that's understandable given that I at least and probably most of town feels like we've collectively played real shit, at the same time that's probably doing a lot of damage to people's willingness to listen to your arguments, because it probably reminds them of exactly how badly it feels like we're playing (or comes across as attempts to intimidate, as with Nyght a little ways up).
At the same time, just on the basis of that tone I'm pretty much totally convinced you're town.
In contrast, Vro has seemed almost completely unruffled for most of this time, which seems kinda weird, but that confidence is probably a big contributing factor in why people have been kinda knuckling under to the narratives he's been pushing. I can't really say this is uncharacteristic, cause this is how he was behaving as town when Lau was pushing him, but at the same time town is also in a significantly worse position now than we were in the last game and that doesn't seem to faze him at all.shit i'm basically back on the 'playing the game' wagon by doing this sort of analysis aren't i, fuck
I'll wrap up with a votecount so people (realistically, Exlight) can know for sure who to push to make a hammer happen.
Votecount:
Vroendal (3) - Exlight (vote #1), Gerrick (vote #4), Red Mones (vote #5)
Doc (1) - Doc (vote #2)
Michi (1) - Vroendal (vote #5)
Majority lynch is at 6 votes; no votes yet from Anubhav, Michi, Wintermoot, Nyght, LoSAt almost the closing moments of the game , if softing is done it might not be another roleclaim dilemma which was on BSR last time . However if one of the defender misses the soft and the scums don't , that could actually be a problem.a reminder in case you missed it that Lau has explicitly banned any form of softing from this point on, presumably at threat of modkill
Yeah , I saw that later , I made the post before refreshing the page .
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 24, 2021, 03:45:21 AM
I'm trying to at least keep up with the game so if I feel like getting back into it I can hop back on the train.
What I've noticed though, Ex, since I'm basically just reading and not bothering to try to look at subtext anymore is that on the tone of your posts for today, and reaching back to the last couple days, is and has been incredibly frustrated, and while that's understandable given that I at least and probably most of town feels like we've collectively played real shit, at the same time that's probably doing a lot of damage to people's willingness to listen to your arguments, because it probably reminds them of exactly how badly it feels like we're playing (or comes across as attempts to intimidate, as with Nyght a little ways up).
At the same time, just on the basis of that tone I'm pretty much totally convinced you're town.
In contrast, Vro has seemed almost completely unruffled for most of this time, which seems kinda weird, but that confidence is probably a big contributing factor in why people have been kinda knuckling under to the narratives he's been pushing. I can't really say this is uncharacteristic, cause this is how he was behaving as town when Lau was pushing him, but at the same time town is also in a significantly worse position now than we were in the last game and that doesn't seem to faze him at all.shit i'm basically back on the 'playing the game' wagon by doing this sort of analysis aren't i, fuck
I'll wrap up with a votecount so people (realistically, Exlight) can know for sure who to push to make a hammer happen.
Votecount:
Vroendal (3) - Exlight (vote #1), Gerrick (vote #4), Red Mones (vote #5)
Doc (1) - Doc (vote #2)
Michi (1) - Vroendal (vote #5)
Majority lynch is at 6 votes; no votes yet from Anubhav, Michi, Wintermoot, Nyght, LoSAt almost the closing moments of the game , if softing is done it might not be another roleclaim dilemma which was on BSR last time . However if one of the defender misses the soft and the scums don't , that could actually be a problem.a reminder in case you missed it that Lau has explicitly banned any form of softing from this point on, presumably at threat of modkill
What if Vro is the unlynchable wolf , which is why he is unruffled . Well we had some hypothetical run-ins with unlynchable wolf , maybe we are coming to it . As for ExLight , I will work with you today since my chances of uncovering a scum is bleak .
Vote: Vroendal
(Ur pinkie promise went a long way tbh , Ex)
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 24, 2021, 03:47:53 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 24, 2021, 04:36:28 AM
Breakdown
D1, Red Mones votes Hapi, then Melehan, then unvotes, then votes Ruguo. D2, he is the second to vote Ruguo. D3, he votes Gerrick. D4, he votes TGN. D5, he ends with a vote on Gerrick. D6, he votes BSR. D7, he votes Doc, unvotes, votes him again, votes me, then unvotes.
Suspicion levels - Low, I don't think he votes Ruguo at the end of D1.
Scum links - Moot. Is either distancing or not w/w with Ruguo and Gerrick.
D1, I vote Michi, then unvote, then vote, then unvote. D2, I vote TGN, then Ruguo. D3, I vote BSR, then Sapph, then TGN. D4 I vote BSR, then Kane. D5 I vote Kane. D6, I vote Moot. D7, I vote Moot, then Wisch.
Suspicion levels - I mean, to me this looks PRETTY DARN TOWNIE and has signs all over of townie doubt and progression but ok I guess.
Scum links - For y'all to decide. I'm not w/w with anyone.
D1, Gerrick is the first to vote Michi, D2, he votes me, is near the last to vote Ruguo, D3, he votes BSR, D4, he votes Doc, unvotes, and votes TGN. D5, he votes cozmik. D6, he votes cozmik then is the last to vote BSR. D7, he votes me.
Suspicion levels - Moderate, but I don't think he tunnels cozmik like that.
Scum link - Moot.
D1, Anubhav doesn't vote. D2, he is the last to vote Ruguo. D3, he vote Sapph last then doesn't vote. D4, he is the last to vote Kane. D5, he is the second to vote Moot. D6, he leads the charge on voting Moot. D7, he votes Wischland which ties her with Doc.
Suspicion levels - High, has had interesting voting times.
Scum links - Inconclusive, possibly Doc. Not w/w with Wintermoot.
D1, Michi doesn't vote, D2, he votes Alexander/ExLight, then votes Ruguo later. D3, he doesn't vote. D4, he votes BSR. D5, he doesn't vote. (Michi you're a dead man walking, 3 days without a vote?) D6, he leads the vote on BSR. D7, he leads the vote on Wischland.
Suspicion levels - Extreme, has been lying low a whole lot, has led the votes on the last two townies.
Scum link - Moot. Not w/w with ExLight.
D1, Wintermoot votes Red. D2, he votes me. D3, he votes Sapph. D4, he votes TGN. D5, he votes Doc. D6, he votes Doc. D7, he votes Doc.
Suspicion levels - Moderate, started off voting interesting choices, went into a tunnel.
Scum links - ??? Not w/w with Doc.
D1, Nyght votes Moot, then votes Hapi. D2, votes me. D3, votes BSR. D4, doesn't vote. D5, votes Moot. D6, doesn't vote. D7, votes me.
Suspicion levels - Moderate, has been lying low a little and has voted some town.
Scum links - ??? Not w/w with Moot.
D1, Doc votes Hapi. D2, he votes me. D3, he votes TGN. D4, he votes TGN. D5, he votes Kane. D6, he doesn't vote. D7, he votes himself.
Suspicion levels - Low, looks like townie tunnels to me.
Scum links - ???
D1, Legacy's slot doesn't vote. D2, it also doesn't vote. D3, he votes Kane, then votes Sapph. D4, he votes Kane. D5, he votes Kane. D6, he votes Moot, D7, he votes Doc.
Suspicion levels - Low, tunnels on a townie with suspicious votes,
Scum links - ??? Not w/w with Doc.
D1, ExLight's slot doesn't vote. D2, it also doesn't vote. D3, he votes TGN. D4, he votes TGN. D5, he votes me, D6, he votes BSR, then Moot, then BSR. D7, he votes me, then Doc, then me.
Suspicion levels - Moderate, but looks like townie tunnels.
Scum links - ???
Suspicion levels - Low, I don't think he votes Ruguo at the end of D1.
Scum links - Moot. Is either distancing or not w/w with Ruguo and Gerrick.
D1, I vote Michi, then unvote, then vote, then unvote. D2, I vote TGN, then Ruguo. D3, I vote BSR, then Sapph, then TGN. D4 I vote BSR, then Kane. D5 I vote Kane. D6, I vote Moot. D7, I vote Moot, then Wisch.
Suspicion levels - I mean, to me this looks PRETTY DARN TOWNIE and has signs all over of townie doubt and progression but ok I guess.
Scum links - For y'all to decide. I'm not w/w with anyone.
D1, Gerrick is the first to vote Michi, D2, he votes me, is near the last to vote Ruguo, D3, he votes BSR, D4, he votes Doc, unvotes, and votes TGN. D5, he votes cozmik. D6, he votes cozmik then is the last to vote BSR. D7, he votes me.
Suspicion levels - Moderate, but I don't think he tunnels cozmik like that.
Scum link - Moot.
D1, Anubhav doesn't vote. D2, he is the last to vote Ruguo. D3, he vote Sapph last then doesn't vote. D4, he is the last to vote Kane. D5, he is the second to vote Moot. D6, he leads the charge on voting Moot. D7, he votes Wischland which ties her with Doc.
Suspicion levels - High, has had interesting voting times.
Scum links - Inconclusive, possibly Doc. Not w/w with Wintermoot.
D1, Michi doesn't vote, D2, he votes Alexander/ExLight, then votes Ruguo later. D3, he doesn't vote. D4, he votes BSR. D5, he doesn't vote. (Michi you're a dead man walking, 3 days without a vote?) D6, he leads the vote on BSR. D7, he leads the vote on Wischland.
Suspicion levels - Extreme, has been lying low a whole lot, has led the votes on the last two townies.
Scum link - Moot. Not w/w with ExLight.
D1, Wintermoot votes Red. D2, he votes me. D3, he votes Sapph. D4, he votes TGN. D5, he votes Doc. D6, he votes Doc. D7, he votes Doc.
Suspicion levels - Moderate, started off voting interesting choices, went into a tunnel.
Scum links - ??? Not w/w with Doc.
D1, Nyght votes Moot, then votes Hapi. D2, votes me. D3, votes BSR. D4, doesn't vote. D5, votes Moot. D6, doesn't vote. D7, votes me.
Suspicion levels - Moderate, has been lying low a little and has voted some town.
Scum links - ??? Not w/w with Moot.
D1, Doc votes Hapi. D2, he votes me. D3, he votes TGN. D4, he votes TGN. D5, he votes Kane. D6, he doesn't vote. D7, he votes himself.
Suspicion levels - Low, looks like townie tunnels to me.
Scum links - ???
D1, Legacy's slot doesn't vote. D2, it also doesn't vote. D3, he votes Kane, then votes Sapph. D4, he votes Kane. D5, he votes Kane. D6, he votes Moot, D7, he votes Doc.
Suspicion levels - Low, tunnels on a townie with suspicious votes,
Scum links - ??? Not w/w with Doc.
D1, ExLight's slot doesn't vote. D2, it also doesn't vote. D3, he votes TGN. D4, he votes TGN. D5, he votes me, D6, he votes BSR, then Moot, then BSR. D7, he votes me, then Doc, then me.
Suspicion levels - Moderate, but looks like townie tunnels.
Scum links - ???
What I'm gathering from my look-over is that especially Michi but also Anubhav have had suspicious voting patterns. A lot of players look like they could be conceivably paired up on a scum team with Moot imo. Doc isn't w/w with a lot of players imo. I think I want my counter-wagon to be Michi, but y'all can do your own analysis and form your own conclusions.
Post by: Vroendal on February 24, 2021, 04:39:05 AM
We have over 24 HOURS left, chill y'all, please, give me a chance to analyze, give yourself a chance to re-analyze, take stock of your options/next steps.
Post by: Vroendal on February 24, 2021, 04:45:24 AM
Post by: Vroendal on February 24, 2021, 05:25:34 AM
Words can be faked and tone can be faked, but one thing a wolf can never do is fake their votes. They can make them confusing, but at the end of the day reading the votes is one of the best ways to catch the wolves. Melehan was on that path at the beginning, and she died pretty quickly.
I implore you to read the votes. What I am gathering is that we likely have a Michi, Moot, and possibly Anubhav scum team, I'm not convinced yet, but that team strikes a different tone with me than the others I was thinking of.
@Gerrick, @Red Mones, if you can, try and analyze the votes and see if you really do come to the conclusion that I'm a wolf, or that Michi/Moot/Anubhav aren't. (Also you know it isn't me here because I'm super lazy, I would never spend all those hours collecting data as a wolf)
Nyght/Legacy/Doc, Wintermoot/Michi/Anubhav if you are town, please hold off just a little bit or reconsider just for a moment. I don't want all those town sacrifices to be for nothing, the wolves have played amazing congratulations to them, but town can still win this and end the game with pride.
Post by: Laurentus on February 24, 2021, 06:23:12 AM
Vroendal - 4 (ExLight, Gerrick, Red Mones, Anubhav)
Doc - 1 (Doc)
Michi - 1 (Vroendal)
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 09:27:43 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 09:30:13 AM
Also I feel uneasy about Smiles . I don't know for sure , but he has been asking for opinions of the rest , it does give an interaction idea that is ongoing , but he himself never opened up to the same amount . Maybe an abstract idea , idk.I think I made my opinion on Vro (which is what I asked you on) pretty obvious in the posts I've been making. As for my other posts, they were more in order to get enough information from some of the other low-posters that would otherwise be very hard to read. I think I've made my reads on most players fairly vocally on the thread but if there's things you want to ask me to clarify or talk more on, I'd love to.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 09:33:21 AM
Hmm, I just realized that if Nyght tunnels enough on me to lynch me then Michi hammers we're screwed, if you're town, you want to take proper stock of your options, especially now when the lynch is so important, if you're town, you unvote me here, at least for a bit/until Legacy gets back. Legacy seems pretty smart, trust him. He's not convinced on me yet.
Spoiler
Legacy is not smart
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 09:44:34 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 09:45:01 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 10:33:00 AM
Quick breakdown of each player's votes, how suspicious they seem to me, and what links I could possibly infer from each player individually.I just don't see a doomed wolf making the sequence of posts starting with this one. You can tell from the way he's writing that Vro thinks he's getting lynched today so why all this?BreakdownD1, Red Mones votes Hapi, then Melehan, then unvotes, then votes Ruguo. D2, he is the second to vote Ruguo. D3, he votes Gerrick. D4, he votes TGN. D5, he ends with a vote on Gerrick. D6, he votes BSR. D7, he votes Doc, unvotes, votes him again, votes me, then unvotes.
Suspicion levels - Low, I don't think he votes Ruguo at the end of D1.
Scum links - Moot. Is either distancing or not w/w with Ruguo and Gerrick.
D1, I vote Michi, then unvote, then vote, then unvote. D2, I vote TGN, then Ruguo. D3, I vote BSR, then Sapph, then TGN. D4 I vote BSR, then Kane. D5 I vote Kane. D6, I vote Moot. D7, I vote Moot, then Wisch.
Suspicion levels - I mean, to me this looks PRETTY DARN TOWNIE and has signs all over of townie doubt and progression but ok I guess.
Scum links - For y'all to decide. I'm not w/w with anyone.
D1, Gerrick is the first to vote Michi, D2, he votes me, is near the last to vote Ruguo, D3, he votes BSR, D4, he votes Doc, unvotes, and votes TGN. D5, he votes cozmik. D6, he votes cozmik then is the last to vote BSR. D7, he votes me.
Suspicion levels - Moderate, but I don't think he tunnels cozmik like that.
Scum link - Moot.
D1, Anubhav doesn't vote. D2, he is the last to vote Ruguo. D3, he vote Sapph last then doesn't vote. D4, he is the last to vote Kane. D5, he is the second to vote Moot. D6, he leads the charge on voting Moot. D7, he votes Wischland which ties her with Doc.
Suspicion levels - High, has had interesting voting times.
Scum links - Inconclusive, possibly Doc. Not w/w with Wintermoot.
D1, Michi doesn't vote, D2, he votes Alexander/ExLight, then votes Ruguo later. D3, he doesn't vote. D4, he votes BSR. D5, he doesn't vote. (Michi you're a dead man walking, 3 days without a vote?) D6, he leads the vote on BSR. D7, he leads the vote on Wischland.
Suspicion levels - Extreme, has been lying low a whole lot, has led the votes on the last two townies.
Scum link - Moot. Not w/w with ExLight.
D1, Wintermoot votes Red. D2, he votes me. D3, he votes Sapph. D4, he votes TGN. D5, he votes Doc. D6, he votes Doc. D7, he votes Doc.
Suspicion levels - Moderate, started off voting interesting choices, went into a tunnel.
Scum links - ??? Not w/w with Doc.
D1, Nyght votes Moot, then votes Hapi. D2, votes me. D3, votes BSR. D4, doesn't vote. D5, votes Moot. D6, doesn't vote. D7, votes me.
Suspicion levels - Moderate, has been lying low a little and has voted some town.
Scum links - ??? Not w/w with Moot.
D1, Doc votes Hapi. D2, he votes me. D3, he votes TGN. D4, he votes TGN. D5, he votes Kane. D6, he doesn't vote. D7, he votes himself.
Suspicion levels - Low, looks like townie tunnels to me.
Scum links - ???
D1, Legacy's slot doesn't vote. D2, it also doesn't vote. D3, he votes Kane, then votes Sapph. D4, he votes Kane. D5, he votes Kane. D6, he votes Moot, D7, he votes Doc.
Suspicion levels - Low, tunnels on a townie with suspicious votes,
Scum links - ??? Not w/w with Doc.
D1, ExLight's slot doesn't vote. D2, it also doesn't vote. D3, he votes TGN. D4, he votes TGN. D5, he votes me, D6, he votes BSR, then Moot, then BSR. D7, he votes me, then Doc, then me.
Suspicion levels - Moderate, but looks like townie tunnels.
Scum links - ???
What I'm gathering from my look-over is that especially Michi but also Anubhav have had suspicious voting patterns. A lot of players look like they could be conceivably paired up on a scum team with Moot imo. Doc isn't w/w with a lot of players imo. I think I want my counter-wagon to be Michi, but y'all can do your own analysis and form your own conclusions.
I admit it makes much more sense if Vro is a wolf. The points made by ExLight, particularly the soft-related points, I all agree with. It would also open Red Mones as a much more likely suspect (since the wagons were Ruguo/Vroendel). But, as much as Vro being a wolf makes this game ten times more simple and probably solves the game for us today, I'm just not reconnecting that with the person I'm seeing in the thread right now.
Regardless of if Vro lynch is inevitable today, I'm going to be scrutinizing some of the votes on Vro shortly. If Vro is town, you'd better believe scum will jump on him today. If Vro is a wolf, I think other wolves will probably bus him for cred once the push on him goes far enough. I'm going to look for bad points on Vro or people who have had sudden opinion shifts on him because, regardless of what alignment Vro actually is, there are wolves around him who I want to spend my time flushing out.
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 10:44:12 AM
Words can be faked and tone can be faked, but one thing a wolf can never do is fake their votes. They can make them confusing, but at the end of the day reading the votes is one of the best ways to catch the wolves. Melehan was on that path at the beginning, and she died pretty quickly.What do you mean votes can’t be faked lol
Mafia can manipulate votes pretty easily.
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 10:44:40 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 10:57:46 AM
I'm trying to at least keep up with the game so if I feel like getting back into it I can hop back on the train.I agree I’ve been taking a more aggressive approach to the game and in a way AtEing, but it has to be done. I’m not taking anything personally, and I never said Town played badly (in fact I think I said the opposite quite a few times, including pointing out Town wasn’t exactly in a tight spot and that they shouldn’t let the mislynches affect them much because it’s fine to make mistakes). Sorry if any of you felt that way.
What I've noticed though, Ex, since I'm basically just reading and not bothering to try to look at subtext anymore is that on the tone of your posts for today, and reaching back to the last couple days, is and has been incredibly frustrated, and while that's understandable given that I at least and probably most of town feels like we've collectively played real shit, at the same time that's probably doing a lot of damage to people's willingness to listen to your arguments, because it probably reminds them of exactly how badly it feels like we're playing (or comes across as attempts to intimidate, as with Nyght a little ways up).
At the same time, just on the basis of that tone I'm pretty much totally convinced you're town.
In contrast, Vro has seemed almost completely unruffled for most of this time, which seems kinda weird, but that confidence is probably a big contributing factor in why people have been kinda knuckling under to the narratives he's been pushing. I can't really say this is uncharacteristic, cause this is how he was behaving as town when Lau was pushing him, but at the same time town is also in a significantly worse position now than we were in the last game and that doesn't seem to faze him at all.shit i'm basically back on the 'playing the game' wagon by doing this sort of analysis aren't i, fuck
I feel like the main reason I’ve been feeling frustrated is because I keep trying to coordinate or ask people to not be inactive but some seem to be doing the bare minimum and only to defend themselves instead of working as a team, which is something that usually hurts Town itself A LOT from my experience.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 11:17:27 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 11:37:23 AM
ELO - Eliminate (a wolf) or lose. Happens if we mislynch one more townsperson at any point in the game unless there is another successful defender protect.
In ELO, votes will be frozen. Don't panic vote! If one townsperson votes for another townsperson before the wolves have voted, town pretty much effectively loses.
The "optimal" strategy for dealing with this sort of ELO is as follows:
1. Every active thread member chips in and creates a list of everyone alive, from most to least likely to be town based on group consensus.
2. Two players , who we decide almost certainly contains at least one wolf, vote for each other.
3. Everyone votes for one of those two players (after a lengthy discussion) preferably in the order of most to least suspicious.
That's how I would advise dealing with ELO if it ever comes up.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 11:49:41 AM
Post by: Doc on February 24, 2021, 01:29:05 PM
While I found myself increasingly convinced by the arguments against Vro yesterday, after sleeping on it and thinking on LoS' new posts, I'm basically dead certain that rather than the high-volume-of-posting players we need to be looking at those who are staying primarily quiet, making votes late, committing to mislynches and riding them to their conclusions, and that looks like Gerrick, Michi, Wintermoot to me, with a (low but non-zero) possibility of being a Red in place of one of them.
I fear we may be tunnelling in on Vro on the basis of trusting Minish's very early read that everyone has basically taken for granted at this point that we are/were dealing with a powerwolf, trusting Exlight to basically be town at this point and so looking at the other most active poster as 'well, he's the only other dude that fits the bill', when the vote records seem to reveal to my mind that most of our mislynches were started and driven by town, and scum just rode herd to keep one of theirs from being the majority lynch (if, indeed, they were ever up for lynch at all).
Also: guess I'm back
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 01:34:53 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 01:39:20 PM
I feel like he is the most likely wolf in town-Vro worlds and the only person who, if they flipped red, might be able to prevent a Vro lynch later on. I think a Vro lynch is probably going to happen today (and I'm not going to fight against it much further to be honest, I've stated my points and if town are dedicated to lynching Vro then lynching him today is the call you should make) but I'd at least like some discussion here.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 01:39:52 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 01:43:33 PM
ExLight please don't murder me I'm sorry.Smiles, please. Don’t scatter the votes like that.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
I would much rather have my vote on Wintermoot than anywhere else at this moment in time, honestly. Not scattering votes is nice and all but I want to have at least one wagon I think contains a wolf or otherwise we're just wasting our time and are probably just going to lose.ExLight please don't murder me I'm sorry.Smiles, please. Don’t scatter the votes like that.
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 01:55:10 PM
Moot gives little information compared to Vro, and isn’t nearly as scummy in my opinion. Moot flipping scum clears Vro and that’s it. Vro flipping scum likely clears Gerrick, Moot, and Michi. It’s not hard to see which one is better here.
I already presented a really strong case on Vro based solely from D1-D3; and I could make one that is ten times larger if I were to do D4-D8. You’re saying you just can’t see scum Vro doing the work he’s doing in thread right now, but if he really cared why would he only start putting effort in analyzing stuff like votes not after 3 or 4 mislynches in a row (most of them also pushed by him), but only when his ass is on the line.
Please, by splitting wagons that’s likely turning this into another 50/50.
Post by: ExLight on February 24, 2021, 02:02:15 PM
Post by: Doc on February 24, 2021, 02:05:39 PM
The fact that that has not happened does once again incline me to think there might be something to this. Enough of something to leave it to one more vote to hammer.
Vote: Vroendal
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 02:11:05 PM
If we have a single mislynch here we might still lose even if we lynch scum next Day (aka armored titan). If we’re on the right track with Vro and an alternate wagon appears scum might just powerwolf and get away yet with another mislynch.
Moot gives little information compared to Vro, and isn’t nearly as scummy in my opinion. Moot flipping scum clears Vro and that’s it. Vro flipping scum likely clears Gerrick, Moot, and Michi. It’s not hard to see which one is better here.
I already presented a really strong case on Vro based solely from D1-D3; and I could make one that is ten times larger if I were to do D4-D8. You’re saying you just can’t see scum Vro doing the work he’s doing in thread right now, but if he really cared why would he only start putting effort in analyzing stuff like votes not after 3 or 4 mislynches in a row (most of them also pushed by him), but only when his ass is on the line.
Please, by splitting wagons that’s likely turning this into another 50/50.
Lynching the armoured titan shouldn't make us lose at ELO because we should go into the day on an even number of players unless another defender save happens.
Alright, the Vro thing. If you're absolutely never going to not vote Vro when given the option unless Moot flips scum then the only options today should be Vro and Moot. Out of the two, I stand by Moot being the more likely of the two but I also think it's a very risky lynch (because if Moot/Vro are somehow t/t then lynching Moot today loses us the game).
Honestly, I'm struggling to argue against the Vro lynch any more. I think we've hit the point where until Vro dies, 90% of the discussion will just be about Vro and we will just lose if Vro is alive, even if he's town. I really don't want Vro to get lynched today but we can't win this unless we come to an agreement on him today honestly.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 24, 2021, 02:11:58 PM
Post by: Laurentus on February 24, 2021, 02:12:43 PM
I can't recall exactly where the post was made, but I did save the quote. My penalty to Vro, which I told him about privately, was that I would add one extra vote on him, meaning he'd need only 5 votes to reach majority.
Quote
Why we don't lynch a PR soft here -
1) Of the two PR's left, the town has only noted one claim, in a host of mislynches this increases the possibility that it is real.
2) There are 10 players left, if town mislynches and the wolves get a kill (very likely with a PR dead) there will be a 3v5, if town mislynches again and the wolves get another kill, they just win.
3) The loss of any PR makes the wolves' jobs significantly easier at any stage of the game, if the PR's hadn't blocked three kills, the wolves would only need a mislynch today.
Town can not be throwing down votes willy-nilly, especially since lynch-by-majority is likely to be enabled. If you see a case against someone, argue it and push it instead of voting it right away.
And this means Vro is the lynch here. He was the Town defender, Mikasa Ackermann.
Vote count:
Vroendal - 5 (ExLight, Gerrick, Red Mones, Anubhav, Doc)
Michi - 1 (Vroendal)
Wintermoot - 1 (Legacy of Smiles)
And this means it is immediately night phase.
Post by: Laurentus on February 24, 2021, 05:13:19 PM
The remaining defender has just lost the ability to self-heal.
Post by: Laurentus on February 25, 2021, 06:04:16 AM
Since he is now dead, I can explain the reason for the penalty. He revealed his role publicly.
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 06:18:08 AM
ExLight
Doc
Wintermoot
NyghtOwl
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 06:20:46 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 06:47:22 AM
I hate how Anubhav died giving us wrong information on the Night 1. I’m assuming they meant Night 1 rather than Night 2 for Mel.
Hey Gerrick, I couldn’t help but notice you had the same picks for N5 and N7 as both defenders. And before they posted their list. Quite the coincidence or?
Vro left us with some pretty good vote timelines, it should help us identify scum based on Michi’s flip.
I’m inclined on voting Moot this phase, but after that fiasco of a performance I don’t even wanna open my mouth much more for the rest of the game.
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 07:19:53 AM
And yeah, I just chose the players who I thought were most towny on those nights. It seems both Defenders felt the same way.
Post by: Laurentus on February 25, 2021, 07:21:48 AM
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 07:27:12 AM
Also I subbed in at N2 , so that's when i begin itThat's weird as it's wrong since he played D2 anyway.
Also going back it appears that he did sub in during N1 and not at the start of D2. Huh
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 08:35:39 AM
Defender targets:
Anubhav Ghosh
Night 1 - ???
Night 3 - Red Mones
Night 7 - Legacy of Smiles
Vroendal
Night 1 - Gerrick
Night 3 - Red Mones
Night 7 - Legacy of Smiles
Like Gerrick said, pretty sure this should mechanically confirm me and Red. As for Gerrick, we can't confirm him unless we know what Anubhav actually selected N1. Was it revealed that he no targeted for certain somewhere? If so, that means Gerrick is confirmed too.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 08:51:24 AM
Doc
NyghtOwl
Gerrick
Wintermoot
2 wolves, 3 lynches (or 2 lynches if we get the armoured titan first).
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 08:54:44 AM
ExLight
Doc
NyghtOwl
Gerrick
Wintermoot
2 wolves, 3 lynches (or 2 lynches if we get the armoured titan first).
Ex/Doc
Ex/Nyght
Ex/Gerrick
Ex/Moot
Doc/Nyght
Doc/Gerrick
Doc/Moot
Nyght/Gerrick
Nyght/Moot
Gerrick/Moot
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 08:55:56 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 10:06:55 AM
Top to bottom:
ExLight
Doc
NyghtOwl
Gerrick
Wintermoot
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 11:26:22 AM
Post by: Doc on February 25, 2021, 01:21:23 PM
LoS
Nyght
Gerrick
Moot
Post by: Doc on February 25, 2021, 01:25:11 PM
Post by: Doc on February 25, 2021, 01:28:16 PM
Ex
LoS
Nyght
Red
Gerrick
Moot
Sorry for triple post I didn't sleep great and it's early
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 01:34:46 PM
Wait lol we literally all forgot Red existed
On Night 3, Anubhav and Vroendel both protected Red Mones. The kill was blocked.
On Night 7, Anubhav and Vroendel both protected me. The kill was blocked.
Both stated who they protected on both of those nights in thread and there were no kills so unless I'm missing something then both me and Red should be confirmed. That's why I initially left out Red on my own list.
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
Wait lol we literally all forgot Red existedhe’s likely cleared from being targeted by both defenders on the same night.
Ex
Doc
Nyght
Gerrick
Moot
lol, the fact everyone’s list is the same is making me a bit anxious.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 01:42:57 PM
Post by: Doc on February 25, 2021, 01:56:02 PM
As for your worries Ex...on the one hand justifiable but on the other it may also basically be the only rational PoE now.
I think a lot of things would be clearer if we had the exact mechanics for how the defenders operated (were they in contact? Did they have 1 collective action or independent actions? Were they informed of successful block or not?) but Lau is unlikely to provide those details. I'm operating under the assumption that they were eithet not in contact, which is why their lists overlap twice but not D1 (since if Anubhav had actually defended Mel N2 as he suggested then the NK wouldn't have gone off, implying he actually did so N1), or they were in contact and informed of successful block (and both elected to claim credit for RM/LoS in order to bait scum to NK them while intending to self/mutual-protect).
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 02:06:01 PM
Oh, that reasoning makes sense.
As for your worries Ex...on the one hand justifiable but on the other it may also basically be the only rational PoE now.
I think a lot of things would be clearer if we had the exact mechanics for how the defenders operated (were they in contact? Did they have 1 collective action or independent actions? Were they informed of successful block or not?) but Lau is unlikely to provide those details. I'm operating under the assumption that they were eithet not in contact, which is why their lists overlap twice but not D1 (since if Anubhav had actually defended Mel N2 as he suggested then the NK wouldn't have gone off, implying he actually did so N1), or they were in contact and informed of successful block (and both elected to claim credit for RM/LoS in order to bait scum to NK them while intending to self/mutual-protect).
Ok so Vro actually answered a lot of these questions I think:
Defenders in contact - No, Vro suspected Anubhav Anubhav strongly in one of his final posts.
One collective action - Presumably not because the defenders were not in contact.
Informed of successful block - I think Vro explicitly confirmed this early on into the game where he was hinting and said he asked Lau for role details on the defender.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 02:06:29 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 02:13:10 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 03:01:55 PM
Post by: Doc on February 25, 2021, 03:11:11 PM
LoS quote
Ok so Vro actually answered a lot of these questions I think:
Defenders in contact - No, Vro suspected Anubhav Anubhav strongly in one of his final posts.
One collective action - Presumably not because the defenders were not in contact.
Informed of successful block - I think Vro explicitly confirmed this early on into the game where he was hinting and said he asked Lau for role details on the defender.
The reason I was asking those question is because it's an unfortunate truth that in games where 1) I'm scum and 2) Gerrick isn't, that we generally 3) attempt to kill him as quickly as physically possible. The fact that he has survived until now indicates that at least one of those things isn't true.
What clinches for me that Gerrick is likely scum, however, is that in his PoE, he pins Nyght - who he's previously townread and who's basically collectively towncleared at this point - below Moot, for whom the exact opposite holds true. If he'd bussed Moot, or, hell, even attempted to pin it on me, I'd have felt a lot less sure, but he didn't, so here we are.
So the thing is at present we have 4 votes (at least theoretically, since there's 4 matching PoEs, unless someone gets paranoid and develops cold feet). Thing is, I don't think we should hammer at least until we give Red a chance to weigh in, just on the off-chance we've missed something. Not like there's much harm in waiting even a whole-ass 24 hours, since there's still 80% of the day phase left.
Post by: Doc on February 25, 2021, 03:13:53 PM
Why would wolf-Gerrick kill cozmik over Nyght?Comparative likelihood of one being protected than the other?
Having a higher-viability mislynch target is good for scum, but being able to actively kill someone vs the chance of having it blocked is better.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 03:15:19 PM
Agree with not hammering until Red agrees to it at the earliest. Looking for potential w/w links in the PoE, particularly those between Moot and others. There are a few people who I think might be mutually exclusive due to the way they voted.Yeah then I'll double down on the PoE we have.LoS quoteOk so Vro actually answered a lot of these questions I think:
Defenders in contact - No, Vro suspected Anubhav Anubhav strongly in one of his final posts.
One collective action - Presumably not because the defenders were not in contact.
Informed of successful block - I think Vro explicitly confirmed this early on into the game where he was hinting and said he asked Lau for role details on the defender.
The reason I was asking those question is because it's an unfortunate truth that in games where 1) I'm scum and 2) Gerrick isn't, that we generally 3) attempt to kill him as quickly as physically possible. The fact that he has survived until now indicates that at least one of those things isn't true.
What clinches for me that Gerrick is likely scum, however, is that in his PoE, he pins Nyght - who he's previously townread and who's basically collectively towncleared at this point - below Moot, for whom the exact opposite holds true. If he'd bussed Moot, or, hell, even attempted to pin it on me, I'd have felt a lot less sure, but he didn't, so here we are.
So the thing is at present we have 4 votes (at least theoretically, since there's 4 matching PoEs, unless someone gets paranoid and develops cold feet). Thing is, I don't think we should hammer at least until we give Red a chance to weigh in, just on the off-chance we've missed something. Not like there's much harm in waiting even a whole-ass 24 hours, since there's still 80% of the day phase left.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 03:20:03 PM
I just want to point out the fact that Doc might have name dropped the entire scumteam here. If the team is Moot/Gerrick, why don't they kill Doc and play it off as a pity kill? Going to check to see if Moot/Gerrick were trying to lynch Doc this day.hansidhsnjdigkgI mean, that seems to be the majority of why people think I'm scum, because I keep being on mislynch wagons, then conveniently forgetting that every fucking wagon except one so far has been a mislynch when it comes time to examine themselves.
that’s low man don’t discredit me like that ; -;
As it stands, my scumreads right now have crystallized.
IMO it's Moot, Gerrick, and (unknown third party); my instinct was 'whoever the 4th vote on BSR was', but it was ExLight and despite some...disagreeable reasoning today, I continue to townread him. (Unknown Third Party) for me is essentially a coinflip on either Wischland or Michi; I favor Wischland a little more just on the basis of the early push on Michi but it could still go either way for me.
Still working on the vote analysis but it's been a bad couple days for my sanity. Been limited to Discord because I refuse to browse the forums on my phone. I'll try to get at least D2 and D3 out today, but for now since I didn't vote the last time round I'm gonna register one early.
Vote: Wintermoot
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 25, 2021, 03:21:29 PM
The last thing when you are having a cold and you are high on hypnotic tablets and antibiotics , supported over alcohol-based syrup , is uttering the word Werewolf , my first game with this issue gave me enough insight to become a preacher of positive thoughts about werewolf
As of now , I have infected the Titan that gulped me down whole , and I do feel satisfied just by the fact that I am giving it pneumonia .
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 03:24:26 PM
Here's my count.
Doc (4): Wintermoot, Legacy, Doc, Wischland
Vroendal (4): Nyght, Gerrick, Red Mones, ExLight
Wischland (3): Michi, Vroendal, Anubhav
Gerrick (1): cozmikrae
If the living team was Michi/Gerrick/Wintermoot and Doc just name dropped them, this is not how I would expect them to act at all. Doc is also not killed in the night.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 03:25:13 PM
DEADThis is the best post of the game and if you disagree you are wrong.
The last thing when you are having a cold and you are high on hypnotic tablets and antibiotics , supported over alcohol-based syrup , is uttering the word Werewolf , my first game with this issue gave me enough insight to become a preacher of positive thoughts about werewolf
As of now , I have infected the Titan that gulped me down whole , and I do feel satisfied just by the fact that I am giving it pneumonia .
Post by: Doc on February 25, 2021, 03:28:11 PM
If the living team was Michi/Gerrick/Wintermoot and Doc just name dropped them, this is not how I would expect them to act at all. Doc is also not killed in the night.I've curated some relevant quotes and will let them do the talking.
Relevant quotes from Ex
Moot gives little information compared to Vro, and isn’t nearly as scummy in my opinion. Moot flipping scum clears Vro and that’s it. Vro flipping scum likely clears Gerrick, Moot, and Michi. It’s not hard to see which one is better here.
townie vro means scummy moot and townie abnuv(?)Relevant quote from Vroendal
does scum even vote if doc and vro are town
vro and doc flipping town = moot/gerrick/??
Yup. That is where we are. I would be up for investigation and subsequent lynching of Michi, Moot, Gerrick, and Anubhav.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 03:30:59 PM
Ok well if it's a Moot/Gerrick team then they're probably just crying in a corner by this point in the game.If the living team was Michi/Gerrick/Wintermoot and Doc just name dropped them, this is not how I would expect them to act at all. Doc is also not killed in the night.I've curated some relevant quotes and will let them do the talking.
Relevant quotes from ExMoot gives little information compared to Vro, and isn’t nearly as scummy in my opinion. Moot flipping scum clears Vro and that’s it. Vro flipping scum likely clears Gerrick, Moot, and Michi. It’s not hard to see which one is better here.townie vro means scummy moot and townie abnuv(?)Relevant quote from Vroendal
does scum even vote if doc and vro are town
vro and doc flipping town = moot/gerrick/??Yup. That is where we are. I would be up for investigation and subsequent lynching of Michi, Moot, Gerrick, and Anubhav.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 03:32:32 PM
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 03:35:18 PM
Post by: Doc on February 25, 2021, 03:50:53 PM
That list wasn't a poe, I was just listing people as I thought of them...
And I'm leaning towards the latter two.I'll just kinda let these two posts get juxtaposed.
Ok well if it's a Moot/Gerrick team then they're probably just crying in a corner by this point in the game.They really shouldn't be, this game for the most part was a master class in demonstrating just how rapidly town can eat itself alive; it kind of highlights that the spectre of a powerwolf is arguably more effective than an actual fucking powerwolf, because then scumhunting can be twisted into 'OMG POWERWOLF', twisted back at the first accuser, and spiral downwards, all while scum just hops aboard two various mislynch wagons and never does anything to accrue suspicion.
Frankly, the only thing to cry about is their abominably bad luck of Michi winding up ILed/modkilled; without it, there's the very strong likelihood that with 3/8 votes, they could have tinfoiled and chaffed enough to make it 4:4 or 3:3:2, then let RNGesus decide the winner, or worse luck actively drive a mislynch.
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 03:55:23 PM
And yes Doc, weird that the two people who spoke the least were the latter two who I thought and yet were also who I ended up thinking were scum at this point.
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 04:00:28 PM
So I'm left with Wintermoot and Nyght. And since I think Wintermoot is likely the armored titan, I'm assuming that Nyght is the other titan.
Post by: Vroendal on February 25, 2021, 04:11:13 PM
Tfw you realize you still haven't made a death post because despite the time you've had because you have yet to find an adequately funny AoT meme... -->
(https://img.wattpad.com/1f49505cd9b5655cba463696bf20f3cc9f2e98f0/68747470733a2f2f73332e616d617a6f6e6177732e636f6d2f776174747061642d6d656469612d736572766963652f53746f7279496d6167652f625878763248567432334c6775513d3d2d3434363939303131302e313464353666623665613333366538313336363434393237333236382e6a7067?s=fit&w=720&h=720)
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 04:11:19 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 04:17:29 PM
And if Ex is scum after all that pinkie promise drama or Doc is scum after that "I'm quitting" drama, then y'all are really messed up people. XDI want to add that when Vro made the "who was suspicious of who list" every single non-cleared person besides ExLight (who was 50/50 on the matter and flipping between the two) and of course Moot himself scumread Wintermoot but he hasn't been a major wagon for I think two days now.
So I'm left with Wintermoot and Nyght. And since I think Wintermoot is likely the armored titan, I'm assuming that Nyght is the other titan.
Moot also pretty much stopped talking after he was no longer scumread I think. I don't remember him speaking at all since the start of the previous day now.
Post by: Doc on February 25, 2021, 04:21:25 PM
Moot also pretty much stopped talking after he was no longer scumread I think. I don't remember him speaking at all since the start of the previous day now.Well, er, from Discord
Quote from: Discord
Wintermoot 👑Dude's just been kinda busy
just read everything from the last round which he apparently completely missed
Vroendal
Hahaha, poor Moot >.<
Wintermoot 👑
After the XKI game I'm probably going to take a break from forum games for awhile. I just don't have the time to give them the attention they deserve =/
Vroendal
:( While I'm sorry to hear, that is completely understandable.
Wintermoot 👑
I really only joined this one cause I thought it was going to be a peaceful vanilla game that I could handle, lol
Vroendal
21 players signing up is probably a bad sign for that occuring >.<
Wintermoot 👑
I'd signed up long before then, and withdrawing from a game wouldn't be a good look lol
Vroendal
Yeah... :p
Moot: signs up for a peaceful vanilla game
The player list by the time the game starts: "It's a trap!"
Sapphiras Valeria
It’s okay everyone thought that too Moot :hugging:
Wintermoot 👑
Yeahhhh lol
But I'm also single-handedly rebuilding the government of Wintreath, and I have things going on offline too
It's just a case where suddenly this week everything demanded my attention =/
Well, last week and this week
Post by: Wintermoot on February 25, 2021, 04:41:06 PM
I will say this...isn't it odd that just about everybody has put me on the bottom of the list, and I don't even know why at this point other than the fact that I've been just as wrong as everybody else (noting that I haven't been proven right or wrong about Doc yet). I'm sure the wolves will happily pile on me just like they probably have every other misvote, because it brings them one step closer to winning the game. But I've defended myself for a number of turns now, and I don't know what else to say. If you want to vote for me, then that's how it goes I suppose.
In any case I will Vote: Legacy of Smiles. While I think there's still a strong case against Doc, there's a good history of people clearing themselves through emotional outbursts (funny how that seems to be the number one way people get decisively cleared, lol), so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I still believe that Ex is town, if only cause if he isn't after that pinky promise thing I will never believe a thing he says in Werewolf again. I don't have a read of any kind on Nyght besides the fact that he's twice tried to start wagons against me, including on the very first day, but everyone else is certain that he's town, so there's no point trying to go up that hill even if I had something more to go on.
Then there's Gerrick, who is apparently suspicious along with me, but if you look at the fact that in most turns every wagon turned out to be town, that's hardly a reliable thing to go on. At this point I'm forced to conclude that the wolves are among those we'd least suspect, leaving Smiles and Red. Between the two, Smiles has been more aggressive the last few turns, especially toward me, so he comes off as more suspicious to me.
This isn't necessarily my final vote, but I'm putting it in just in case I'm not able to make another post. Related, I really don't like this lynch by majority thing because it gives an even greater advantage to hyper-active players over those who don't have as much time to keep up with the game.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 04:44:09 PM
Sorry that I wasn't active yesterday...I wasn't aware that the rules had changed and the day ended early before it had already ended. v_vI'm cleared...
I will say this...isn't it odd that just about everybody has put me on the bottom of the list, and I don't even know why at this point other than the fact that I've been just as wrong as everybody else (noting that I haven't been proven right or wrong about Doc yet). I'm sure the wolves will happily pile on me just like they probably have every other misvote, because it brings them one step closer to winning the game. But I've defended myself for a number of turns now, and I don't know what else to say. If you want to vote for me, then that's how it goes I suppose.
In any case I will Vote: Legacy of Smiles. While I think there's still a strong case against Doc, there's a good history of people clearing themselves through emotional outbursts (funny how that seems to be the number one way people get decisively cleared, lol), so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I still believe that Ex is town, if only cause if he isn't after that pinky promise thing I will never believe a thing he says in Werewolf again. I don't have a read of any kind on Nyght besides the fact that he's twice tried to start wagons against me, including on the very first day, but everyone else is certain that he's town, so there's no point trying to go up that hill even if I had something more to go on.
Then there's Gerrick, who is apparently suspicious along with me, but if you look at the fact that in most turns every wagon turned out to be town, that's hardly a reliable thing to go on. At this point I'm forced to conclude that the wolves are among those we'd least suspect, leaving Smiles and Red. Between the two, Smiles has been more aggressive the last few turns, especially toward me, so he comes off as more suspicious to me.
This isn't necessarily my final vote, but I'm putting it in just in case I'm not able to make another post. Related, I really don't like this lynch by majority thing because it gives an even greater advantage to hyper-active players over those who don't have as much time to keep up with the game.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 25, 2021, 04:44:50 PM
I'm cleared...How so? I must have missed that part. v_v
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 04:46:42 PM
Oops sorry for the snark. Me and Red were both mechanically cleared because Anubhav and Vroendel both protected us on nights where the kills were blocked.I'm cleared...How so? I must have missed that part. v_v
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 04:50:16 PM
Full explanation.Wait lol we literally all forgot Red existed
On Night 3, Anubhav and Vroendel both protected Red Mones. The kill was blocked.
On Night 7, Anubhav and Vroendel both protected me. The kill was blocked.
Both stated who they protected on both of those nights in thread and there were no kills so unless I'm missing something then both me and Red should be confirmed. That's why I initially left out Red on my own list.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 25, 2021, 04:52:48 PM
I just don't know then. I know I'm town, but obviously that isn't going to carry much weight with anybody else. At this point I'd be just as well off voting randomly than going off any 'insights' I have.
Unvote
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 04:54:51 PM
/me sighsHow would you personally rank Ex, Nyght, Gerrick and Doc from most to least towny?
I just don't know then. I know I'm town, but obviously that isn't going to carry much weight with anybody else. At this point I'd be just as well off voting randomly than going off any 'insights' I have.
Unvote
Post by: Wintermoot on February 25, 2021, 05:06:19 PM
How would you personally rank Ex, Nyght, Gerrick and Doc from most to least towny?
I suppose Ex, Nyght, Doc, and Gerrick.
As I said before, I have no feel for Nyght. I feel Doc has a decent case against him but I hesitate to vote for someone that has put themselves out there like he did, because that's often how town have been decisively cleared. I can't say I have much of a feel for Gerrick either, but he's been one of those people hanging out in the background all game and that would seem to fit the mold of the wolves in this game. I just worry that it's too obvious in a game where round after round everyone considered suspicious and killed by town has been town except Ruguo. And now I wonder if getting behind a Ruguo kill was an early move by the rest of the wolves to make themselves look better for the rest of the game. Lose the battle, win the war sorta thing.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 05:08:59 PM
I think we've do e ourselves in honestly. Outside of a very fringe chance of an ExLight scum world we've actually almost entirely had townspeople pushing townspeople wagons with wolves piling on and getting them lynched so far.How would you personally rank Ex, Nyght, Gerrick and Doc from most to least towny?
I suppose Ex, Nyght, Doc, and Gerrick.
As I said before, I have no feel for Nyght. I feel Doc has a decent case against him but I hesitate to vote for someone that has put themselves out there like he did, because that's often how town have been decisively cleared. I can't say I have much of a feel for Gerrick either, but he's been one of those people hanging out in the background all game and that would seem to fit the mold of the wolves in this game. I just worry that it's too obvious in a game where round after round everyone considered suspicious and killed by town has been town except Ruguo. And now I wonder if getting behind a Ruguo kill was an early move by the rest of the wolves to make themselves look better for the rest of the game. Lose the battle, win the war sorta thing.
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 05:51:46 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 05:52:51 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 05:56:28 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 05:56:46 PM
Honestly Ex is my top townread outside of Leg simply because of how active and driven they've been. But y'all have said something about powerwolfing? I'm guessing that's where a wolf takes the lead and trust to steer the conversations and lynches.
But the promise seems to hold a lot of weight here.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 06:06:40 PM
So is the whole Pinkie Promise a big thing in WW? Because that's something that has been bothering me quite a bit...like how does a promise that you're town clear someone?It's actually a strategy that people use on mafia forums. A link to a wiki page on it is here:
Honestly Ex is my top townread outside of Leg simply because of how active and driven they've been. But y'all have said something about powerwolfing? I'm guessing that's where a wolf takes the lead and trust to steer the conversations and lynches.
But the promise seems to hold a lot of weight here.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTrust_Tell%23:~:text%3DA%2520Trust%2520Tell%2520is%2520a,via%2520a%2520personal%2520meta%2520argument.%26text%3DIt%27s%2520far%2520more%2520effective%2520to,alignment%2520in%2520game%2520after%2520game.&ved=2ahUKEwivnZ3qz4XvAhWtXRUIHcr6ALwQFjABegQIAhAF&usg=AOvVaw3KBZStUogeyYngrTrRC36S
IMPORTANT: This is not a banned strategy on these forums and ExLigjt is bot breaking any rules by making pinkie promises it's just that the link is for a forum where it is banned.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 06:07:03 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 06:08:19 PM
So is the whole Pinkie Promise a big thing in WW? Because that's something that has been bothering me quite a bit...like how does a promise that you're town clear someone?It’s not a common tactic from my experience. I know people that use No Lie Policies, which is similar but a bit different.
Honestly Ex is my top townread outside of Leg simply because of how active and driven they've been. But y'all have said something about powerwolfing? I'm guessing that's where a wolf takes the lead and trust to steer the conversations and lynches.
But the promise seems to hold a lot of weight here.
The idea of a pinkie promise is more about trusting my character than anything. When someone says they don’t believe me making a pinky promise they’re not saying they don’t trust me as a player, they’re saying they don’t trust me as a person in a way.
People usually give the benefit of the doubt until that trust is broken, since I have never broken anyone’s trust regarding these sorts of promise, it would be unusual for others to have so much paranoia to the point of questioning not only my word but a perfect record of me keeping it.
Had I not made the pinkie promise I agree my behavior could be perfectly interpreted as me powerwolfing because I really messed up badly here sjjdovmfdmghd
But while we’re at it I can at least use it to reduce PoE and redirect people into better discussion topics than my alignment (because good lord can you imagine rereading all my posts in less than 48h).
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 06:12:02 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 06:13:30 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 06:13:41 PM
It's nothing against you as a person. I promise. I just don't know you or your record.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 06:22:39 PM
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 06:24:43 PM
to people that played as wolves in this forums, how good is the communication between the scummates usually?I haven't played as a wolf in a while, but from what I remember it wasn't all that terribly active. Usually someone would give a target and reasoning, and the rest would say, "Sounds good." If someone was on the chopping block or being heavily sussed, we'd sorta give an idea of what we were planning to do before doing it, but we didn't really come up with a larger overarching plan. We all played pretty independently for the most part.
Then again this was before Discord, so it was all over group PM on the forums, which is a bit clunky. Might be easier, nowadays if they have a group DM on Discord.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 06:32:31 PM
I feel like an idiot.
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 06:43:40 PM
I’m a bit confused on whether or not they’ve been keeping up with the thread or just getting lucky.
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 06:44:09 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 07:10:54 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 07:11:58 PM
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 07:19:33 PM
Come on, he's obviously playing up the innocent newbie card. Why would he talk about how he didn't know how scum communicated. With how Michi was distancing from him when we were voting off TGN (on mobile at work, not gonna try to find it) and how he's been distancing himself from Wintermoot since D1, it's gotta be him and Moot.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 07:24:40 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 07:25:35 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 07:26:39 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 07:44:29 PM
Vote: NyghtOwl
Come on, he's obviously playing up the innocent newbie card. Why would he talk about how he didn't know how scum communicated. With how Michi was distancing from him when we were voting off TGN (on mobile at work, not gonna try to find it) and how he's been distancing himself from Wintermoot since D1, it's gotta be him and Moot.
Why would I talk about it? Because I was surprised. Pardon my inexperience in a game I've only just started playing. I've been doing my best to follow along with everything and make the best decision I could each time.
It seems like you're pretty excited to jump at any opportunity to throw suspicion into some one else at this point.
My guess is that earlier points about Moot being the unkillable titan are spot on and that puts you on the chopping block. So it would make sense to try and take whatever chance you can to save yourself. You get me lynched and then they'd have to hit you and moot in that order before you can kill anyone else. Which would be pretty damn hard now that we don't have any defenders.
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 07:58:49 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 08:11:07 PM
Anybody know how many mislynches we can do we before we lose? And that's counting lynching the armored titan as a mislynch.We can either mislynch once or we can hit the armoured titan once.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 08:24:18 PM
Anybody know how many mislynches we can do we before we lose? And that's counting lynching the armored titan as a mislynch.We can either mislynch once or we can hit the armoured titan once.
That means we really can't afford to lynch the wrong person here. If I was a wolf, why would I be concerned about lynching someone on a day 1? I didn't want to do it because I was working under the impression that every mislynch is a point in favor of the wolves. Since then I've been trying to follow along with the many theories and trains of thought being brought to the table. And when I voted I did so because what people said was making sense. I fell behind on things because yes, I have a full time job as well as a fiance to balance. And I didn't vote because I didn't feel like I had the info I needed. But I've been trying to help when I can.
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 09:04:47 PM
And your behavior can easily be chalked up to being instructed by your scumbuds to play up being a new player just as what happened with TGN last game when he was scum.
So neither mean you aren't scum. But man, if you aren't scum then Doc or Ex are really playing us. But I don't want to think about that yet.
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 09:28:52 PM
Also, I'm damn glad I've been mech-cleared since I went from top town to sus in a matter of a couple hours after that Vro fiasco. :))
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 09:29:29 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 09:31:38 PM
Wait lol we literally all forgot Red existedThis happens a lot tbh. It helps me out a lot since I don't really have respond since I'm rarely called out. It does also help that I'm practically always town :))
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 09:34:50 PM
Thinking back through the game, I'm inclined to think Gerrick is town based on hard-clearing me early on with Sapph's poem. While most others were trying to figure out what it meant, he came out independent of anyone else and cleared me just like that. Now, I was a top townie based on the the Ruguo lynch, so it could have been a ploy to gain towncred by clearing someone who was obviously town, but I'm not really sure. In my mind wolves would obviously town clear obvious townies for towncred, not so much hard clear like he did. The Cozmik lynch could also potentially point to Gerrick as scum. They might've lynched her because at that point she was the only one pushing against Gerrick. This could also be an attempt to frame him, so idk.I would actually say that Gerrick concluding quickly that you were the cop check is something that a wolf would love to do. Regardless of if you actually were the check, the absolute best person for the cop to have checked, if wolves can't make people think one of them was checked, is the person who is regarded as almost certainly town anyway. I remember people throwing around the idea of other players like Kane being the cop target. This would have been bad news for scum if this meant that somebody like Kane could no longer be mislynched.
Also, I'm damn glad I've been mech-cleared since I went from top town to sus in a matter of a couple hours after that Vro fiasco. :))
To conclude, I think it's a reasonable thought process and definitely not a scum tell but I don't think it makes Gerrick look more town at all.
Cop = seer, noticed too late.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 09:35:55 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 09:38:05 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 09:41:15 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 09:46:26 PM
Got to agree that if Moot was a wolf I think he would have picked an easier target than me (because I don't think I am an easy town to mislynch before the clear) even if him not reading the thread is just NAI.
Like, my first reaction was "Moot is obviously a wolf at this point. His partner is clearly Gerrick or Nyght and he's desperately trying to lynch somebody outside of the narrowed pool as a last ditch effort and went with me" but I think it would have been a much better move if wolf-Moot (assuming he genuinely didn't know about the clears) had voted for Red or Doc instead as they're both less active and were much more heavily tinfoiled / distrusted compared to me.
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 09:49:53 PM
ExLight
Doc
Moot
Gerrick
Nyght
I think Ex and Doc are solidly town, barring any 200IQ play like you mentioned lol
Gerrick and Moot honestly could be tied for 3rd place. Nyght never really seemed like scum as always, but that attempt at a derp clear kinda sticks out to me tbh. If other town are on board, I'd probably lynch Nyght today.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 09:55:50 PM
I'm on board with this. Should wait for everyone to agree before we hammer though.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 09:56:15 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 10:00:53 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 10:25:14 PM
But, I can see I was wrong. It was a dumb thing to open up and admit I thought something that, I guess to y'all is stupid.
If I'm smart enough to fool y'all so well on the beginning, like Doc himself said. Why would I go ahead and make an ass of myself with something that's "obvious?"
Which is it? Am I a great manipulator or am I super obvious?
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 10:42:08 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 10:51:29 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 10:54:36 PM
Sorry. I feel like I'm being mocked for being sincere and it sucksI think no matter what alignment you are, you've played very well. You were all but cleared most of the game and much more experienced players than you have just given up when people were voting them.
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 10:58:15 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 11:05:17 PM
Ok Nyght, if you're not scum and (let's consider the possibility that you're wrong about me and that) I'm not scum, who are the two wolves?
My two reads for the wolves were you and Moot. That was the only scenario I could reason out. I would have said perhaps Red but I guess he's been cleared.
Post by: Gerrick on February 25, 2021, 11:06:34 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 11:09:23 PM
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 11:10:25 PM
ExLight, how are you feeling about Nyght?I’m on the fence about them
I need to check Vro’s vote timeline
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 11:11:00 PM
I mean, he's been in control of a lot of the discussions for a while now. Seemingly outta nowhere. And I don't know, call me weird, but a promise in a game all about lieing isn't that convincing to me.
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 11:11:33 PM
Red's been cleared, Doc's moment last day phase seems sincere, ex has been killing it in the deductions. Legacy was cleared, that leaves you, me and moot. I can see where people would think it's me. I haven't been much help which is why I think I've been kept around if I'm being honest. So unless it's either you or I one of the other players is hitting on all sevens.My deductions have been killing it alright too bad it was killing town :kannagun:
I legit am scared of even opening my mouth and fucking things even more again
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 11:12:17 PM
Red's been cleared, Doc's moment last day phase seems sincere, ex has been killing it in the deductions. Legacy was cleared, that leaves you, me and moot. I can see where people would think it's me. I haven't been much help which is why I think I've been kept around if I'm being honest. So unless it's either you or I one of the other players is hitting on all sevens.My deductions have been killing it alright too bad it was killing town :kannagun:
I legit am scared of even opening my mouth and fucking things even more again
Haha. I'm living proof that it's a bad idea to open ones mouth.
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 11:12:50 PM
But I guess I'd say Moot and maybe Ex.goddamit are you still gonna doubt the pinkie promise:tm:
I mean, he's been in control of a lot of the discussions for a while now. Seemingly outta nowhere. And I don't know, call me weird, but a promise in a game all about lieing isn't that convincing to me.
shit is sacred to me
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 11:13:14 PM
cuz were doing better as scum laying low orRed's been cleared, Doc's moment last day phase seems sincere, ex has been killing it in the deductions. Legacy was cleared, that leaves you, me and moot. I can see where people would think it's me. I haven't been much help which is why I think I've been kept around if I'm being honest. So unless it's either you or I one of the other players is hitting on all sevens.My deductions have been killing it alright too bad it was killing town :kannagun:
I legit am scared of even opening my mouth and fucking things even more again
Haha. I'm living proof that it's a bad idea to open ones mouth.
Post by: ExLight on February 25, 2021, 11:16:40 PM
Humor me at least with the scenario that I'm town. Who are the two wolves then?Moot and Nyghts, I guess?
Doc is a bit of a convoluted mess because I don’t see him almost asking for an Inactivity Lynch when he was about to win as scum, so that screams town to me. Assuming scum didn’t holster/forget to shoot and that the defenders didn’t lie about the protections that clears Red and Smiles; and I’m Town.
So mechanically only Nyghts and Moot are left if you’re Town.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 11:25:05 PM
cuz were doing better as scum laying low orRed's been cleared, Doc's moment last day phase seems sincere, ex has been killing it in the deductions. Legacy was cleared, that leaves you, me and moot. I can see where people would think it's me. I haven't been much help which is why I think I've been kept around if I'm being honest. So unless it's either you or I one of the other players is hitting on all sevens.My deductions have been killing it alright too bad it was killing town :kannagun:
I legit am scared of even opening my mouth and fucking things even more again
Haha. I'm living proof that it's a bad idea to open ones mouth.
No. Because the second I opened my mouth someone jumped on me like a flea on an old dog. And sorry not sorry. I don't know you so I don't have a reason to trust you or a "pinkie promise"
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 11:27:58 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 11:30:45 PM
Sorry. I feel like I'm being mocked for being sincere and it sucksIt's not meant personally at all, and the use of derp clear is not meant as an insult either. The truth is we're all floundering, just look at town's track record this game. The game is about lying, so nobody will ever trust sincerity. Players dealt with a similar situation last game with wolf TGN playing up the noob act and flying under the radar, so players here are hyper-aware of that as a viable strategy. Everyone is townie to everyone, so we're stuck carefully using process of elimination and we will absolutely jump on every tiny thing. It's not personal, it's just how it is, and if I came off that way, I apologize.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 11:33:06 PM
Sorry. I feel like I'm being mocked for being sincere and it sucksIt's not meant personally at all, and the use of derp clear is not meant as an insult either. The truth is we're all floundering, just look at town's track record this game. The game is about lying, so nobody will ever trust sincerity. Players dealt with a similar situation last game with wolf TGN playing up the noob act and flying under the radar, so players here are hyper-aware of that as a viable strategy. Everyone is townie to everyone, so we're stuck carefully using process of elimination and we will absolutely jump on every tiny thing. It's not personal, it's just how it is, and if I came off that way, I apologize.
Sorry. You're right. I took it personally and I shouldn't have.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 25, 2021, 11:37:13 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 11:40:08 PM
Today it's 5:2. We lynch someone (say, Nyght) and they turn out to be town. It's now 4:2.
Wolves get a successful kill, and it becomes 3:2 for the next day. If the other two (Moot and Gerrick for this example) are our wolves, we lynch one, and it becomes 3:1
Wolves get a successfull kill, and it becomes 2:1 for the next day. Town lynches the last wolf and we win.
Problem is, this is assuming the last two wolves are within that 3-member group, and given this game, and can't say anything with certainty.
Any thoughts guys?
If this is the case, then we can just lynch anybody without much care, but again, this is based on an assumption.
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 11:43:15 PM
I pride myself on my intelligence and thought I'd be really good at this. And then it got going and I realized how out of my depth I am and it's been getting under my skin. And I let it get to me.Yeah don't worry about it. It's a hard game, especially with this many players and so much activity. Everybody feels that way for the first time, and it honestly doesn't get that much better :)) I've played quite a few rounds at this point (and plenty of among us and Town of Salem if they count) and I still feel dumb as shit lol. Talk to people like Lau, Ex, etc., even they'll tell you they're not that good.
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 11:44:43 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 11:47:47 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 25, 2021, 11:48:41 PM
In other news, though, if the two wolves are within the three (Moot, Gerrick, Nyght), even if we mislynch today, it's a guaranteed win for town if we all focus on the same person each round.The only issue is that this doesn't account for the armoured titan. Hitting it would be the same as hitting a townsperson, effectively. We could probably solve that issue by lynching from least to most likely to be armoured titan though.
Today it's 5:2. We lynch someone (say, Nyght) and they turn out to be town. It's now 4:2.
Wolves get a successful kill, and it becomes 3:2 for the next day. If the other two (Moot and Gerrick for this example) are our wolves, we lynch one, and it becomes 3:1
Wolves get a successfull kill, and it becomes 2:1 for the next day. Town lynches the last wolf and we win.
Problem is, this is assuming the last two wolves are within that 3-member group, and given this game, and can't say anything with certainty.
Any thoughts guys?
If this is the case, then we can just lynch anybody without much care, but again, this is based on an assumption.
If we can clear two people fully (those probably being ExLight and Doc) then that strategy will win us the game.
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 11:50:52 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 11:52:27 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 25, 2021, 11:52:52 PM
Post by: Doc on February 26, 2021, 12:11:10 AM
That said, I may be tunneling again but I do find it particularly interesting that Gerrick's absolutely exploded in activity now though, with 13 posts in this day phase out of a total of 50 posts in the whole thread. Making 26% of his posts in one day alone - and in D9 to boot - seems strikingly out of character compared to how it's been for the rest of this thread, which is what I'd expect from a Titan who'd been heretofore attempting to fly under the radar but is now being lined up on the PoE chopping block.
For comparability (organized in terms of my suslist, with Gerrick slotted in in either 2nd or 3rd last place),
I'm not touching either LoS or Ex with a 50 foot pole for a postcount. I ain't finna count through 500 posts each, but their posting patterns certainly seem well within normal-for-this-game parameters.
Including this post, I've made 10 posts of my 60 total (17%) in this day phase.
Red has made 14 posts of his 137 total (10%) this day phase.
Nyght has made 19 posts out of 65 total (29%) this day phase.
Moot has made 4 posts out of his 29 total (14%) this day phase.
This is unfortunately not as conclusive as I thought it was gonna be when I started, mostly on the basis of a big splat of double and triple-posts from Nyght from within the last hour or two, but I think going in and smashing double/triple posts together in this analysis runs the risk of just winding up being the equivalent of p-hacking it to get the results I want.
-snip-Your hypothesis hinges on us not hitting the Armored Titan if we mislynch today and wind up in lylo. Which is essentially a 50-50 gamble.
It'd be one thing if we still had a defender, cause we'd have the added bonus of maaaaaaybe blocking an NK and keeping our numbers stable. But we don't.
The only issue is that this doesn't account for the armoured titan. Hitting it would be the same as hitting a townsperson, effectively. We could probably solve that issue by lynching from least to most likely to be armoured titan though.oh he said this already well tough i wanted to document that I also thought this through
If we can clear two people fully (those probably being ExLight and Doc) then that strategy will win us the game.
Post by: Red Mones on February 26, 2021, 12:17:46 AM
Post by: Doc on February 26, 2021, 12:32:47 AM
Either he's the AT and we are, or he isn't and we aren't.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 26, 2021, 12:34:05 AM
Thinking about who I want to lynch myself, I actually liked Nyght's defence.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 26, 2021, 12:34:20 AM
I'm assuming I'm gonna get hammered by Ex and Moot. I wish I could say I'm proud of how I played. But I'm not. :'(
I hope y'all can sus out those last two wolves before they clinch a win. I'd keep my Eyes on Gerrick. He hopped on me faster than a bare door jack rabbit on a hot greasy griddle in the middle of july.
That being said,
Vote: Gerrick[/u
In the words of mother RuPaul, "Good luck, and don't...Fuck it up."
Post by: Gerrick on February 26, 2021, 12:38:18 AM
And I don't think we should lynch Wintermoot first if he's the Armored Titan as that's a waste of a lynch. It makes more sense to lynch the other titan, right?
And why would Moot hammer you, Nyght, when he said he was null-reading you and that he thought Doc and I were more suspicious? Distancing much?
Post by: Red Mones on February 26, 2021, 12:39:00 AM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 26, 2021, 12:40:39 AM
Well yeah, my activity jumped up because I was excited that I had finally been cleared and so we had the two wolves narrowed down to just finish this off. That didn't happen -- and in fact the opposite happened where I suddenly became viewed as one of the most suspicious -- so I had to both defend myself and lay out my case of who I think are the wolves.
And I don't think we should lynch Wintermoot first if he's the Armored Titan as that's a waste of a lynch. It makes more sense to lynch the other titan, right?
And why would Moot hammer you, Nyght, when he said he was null-reading you and that he thought Doc and I were more suspicious? Distancing much?
When I was writing that I already had 2 votes so I assumed y'all would go for an easy lynch. Defensive much?
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 26, 2021, 12:41:19 AM
Post by: Gerrick on February 26, 2021, 12:42:48 AM
Post by: Gerrick on February 26, 2021, 12:43:03 AM
Post by: Gerrick on February 26, 2021, 12:45:28 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 26, 2021, 12:46:10 AM
In other news, though, if the two wolves are within the three (Moot, Gerrick, Nyght), even if we mislynch today, it's a guaranteed win for town if we all focus on the same person each round.It’s not that simple because we have to lynch the non armored titan. If we mislynch today and lynch the armored one the next Day we still lose, I think.
Today it's 5:2. We lynch someone (say, Nyght) and they turn out to be town. It's now 4:2.
Wolves get a successful kill, and it becomes 3:2 for the next day. If the other two (Moot and Gerrick for this example) are our wolves, we lynch one, and it becomes 3:1
Wolves get a successfull kill, and it becomes 2:1 for the next day. Town lynches the last wolf and we win.
Problem is, this is assuming the last two wolves are within that 3-member group, and given this game, and can't say anything with certainty.
Any thoughts guys?
If this is the case, then we can just lynch anybody without much care, but again, this is based on an assumption.
Post by: Red Mones on February 26, 2021, 12:47:10 AM
Lmao I'm not actually mad :P
Post by: Gerrick on February 26, 2021, 12:56:29 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 26, 2021, 12:57:57 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 26, 2021, 12:59:40 AM
I don’t think hammer is active in this phase, right?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 26, 2021, 01:01:04 AM
what’s the votecount right now?
I don’t think hammer is active in this phase, right?
I think just Gerrick and Nyght voting each other.
Pretty sure hammer is active.
Post by: Laurentus on February 26, 2021, 01:01:24 AM
Post by: ExLight on February 26, 2021, 01:04:31 AM
I’m more inclined to go after Gerrick
Post by: ExLight on February 26, 2021, 01:05:12 AM
Post by: Wintermoot on February 26, 2021, 06:44:35 AM
Despite them voting for each other, they essentially have the same narrative...that I'm actually the most suspicious, but that I must be the armored titan (did they ever explain why other than stating that I'm the most suspicious?) so there's no use in going after me this round. If I was voted off this round and exposed as town, where does that leave them? But if one of them gets voted off and exposed as a wolf, the other can continue that narrative as a reason to vote for me next turn.
Either way, as I understand the state of the game, even if we're right and the wolves must be among the three of us, all it takes is for town to vote for the one town among them and the armored titan to lose the game. If that's the case, the best move for the wolves would be to try to get town to vote for the armored titan this round, then force a vote between the remaining wolf and the actual townie next turn. What better way to win than to set up the townie as that suspicious person who we couldn't vote for last time cause we thought he was the armored titan?
Post by: Red Mones on February 26, 2021, 07:02:42 AM
Despite them voting for each other, they essentially have the same narrative...that I'm actually the most suspicious, but that I must be the armored titan (did they ever explain why other than stating that I'm the most suspicious?)Yeah Gerrick explained here:
Also as I said before, I think Wintermoot's the armored titan since he was at the bottom of everyone's list. The only reason he would be at the bottom of the other titan's list is because he's unlynchable and so that'd give them easy town cred.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 26, 2021, 11:54:30 AM
Moot/Nyght -> Moot is armoured
Gerrick/Nyght -> Nyght is armoured
Moot/Gerrick -> Gerrick is armoured
Post by: ExLight on February 26, 2021, 12:04:50 PM
We have a triangle.not sure if I follow
Moot/Nyght -> Moot is armoured
Gerrick/Nyght -> Nyght is armoured
Moot/Gerrick -> Gerrick is armoured
Post by: ExLight on February 26, 2021, 12:15:48 PM
This is tricky.
Do we think Nyghts understands and executes the concept of bussing on their very first game? He pushed Moot quite a bit when scum had gained a ton of speed. And while I do think they’re smart enough to pull something like this, I’m not sure if they’d do it on their very first game?
He voted Moot in quite a few moments, but didn’t vote Silver nor Michi. This makes me think they’re not in the same team like Vro pointed out, which makes Gerrick the optimal lynch here.
Which also is compatible with Vro seeing Gerrick links with Moot.
We can still hit armored today as long we hit the other right scum next Day, right?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 26, 2021, 12:19:00 PM
I was supposed to explain immediately but I went and ate lunch and forgot sorry.We have a triangle.not sure if I follow
Moot/Nyght -> Moot is armoured
Gerrick/Nyght -> Nyght is armoured
Moot/Gerrick -> Gerrick is armoured
The left is the scumteams and the right is who would be the armoured titan in each of those teams.
In a Gerrick/Nyght team, Gerrick would be bussing Nyght only if Nyght was armoured. Then he can force a 50/60 between himself and Moot. This team doesn't make sense at all if Gerrick was armoured.
In a Moot/Gerrick scumteam, Moot is not the armoured titan because Gerrick is almost certainly trying to save his teammate Moot by mislynching Nyght today. This one I am less confident on than the above but it makes a more sense than the reverse of this.
In a Moot/Nyght team, the consensus opinion that Moot is the lynchproof is probably right. This also explains why Nyght responded as he did when he was pushed by Gerrick.
So I'm leaning towards these armoured titan combinations.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 26, 2021, 12:21:47 PM
Actually I think I do, hmm.We can, yeah. Hitting armoured titan our mislynch being used up.
This is tricky.
Do we think Nyghts understands and executes the concept of bussing on their very first game? He pushed Moot quite a bit when scum had gained a ton of speed. And while I do think they’re smart enough to pull something like this, I’m not sure if they’d do it on their very first game?
He voted Moot in quite a few moments, but didn’t vote Silver nor Michi. This makes me think they’re not in the same team like Vro pointed out, which makes Gerrick the optimal lynch here.
Which also is compatible with Vro seeing Gerrick links with Moot.
We can still hit armored today as long we hit the other right scum next Day, right?
Post by: ExLight on February 26, 2021, 01:17:47 PM
Also, has nobody else noticed that Nyght didn't vote on Days 4, 6, or 8?Michi was supposed to have died by inactivity on D5, D8 didn’t count since hammer and all.
Post by: Doc on February 26, 2021, 02:21:41 PM
Because I frankly think scum placing moot at the bottom of their readlist could just as easily be WIFOM to persuade us not to lynch nonarmored (while staying with the consensus opinion of him as scummiest player so as not to stand out).
Personally...still sold on Moot as today's lynch, but I'll bend on it if consensus would rather we go a different route.
Post by: ExLight on February 26, 2021, 02:39:19 PM
So the options would be either Moot and Gerrick/Nyghts and Gerrick.
I think I’d be more comfortable going for Gerrick since he’s the common factor.
Post by: ExLight on February 26, 2021, 02:55:42 PM
I’m really uneasy of opening my mouth because paranoia is kicking in and I’m afraid of messing things up again.
I’ll be fine with a Moot lynch if that’s what everyone wants.
Nyghts, you’re voting Gerrick, right?
Wasn’t Moot more of a scumread to you a couple days ago?
Post by: Gerrick on February 26, 2021, 03:18:05 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 26, 2021, 03:22:28 PM
I can think of a play we could pull to guarantee a scum lynch, but it’s pretty unethical.
I’m really uneasy of opening my mouth because paranoia is kicking in and I’m afraid of messing things up again.
I’ll be fine with a Moot lynch if that’s what everyone wants.
Nyghts, you’re voting Gerrick, right?
Wasn’t Moot more of a scumread to you a couple days ago?
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 26, 2021, 03:24:58 PM
Curious though, what's this stratagem? I'm open to anything really at this point.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 26, 2021, 04:58:36 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on February 26, 2021, 05:26:01 PM
Wintermoot, considering you're one of the top three of people's scumspects and you've narrowed down who you're gonna vote for to either Nyght or me, why don't you go ahead and vote for either of us?
can we please not vote yet I still want to recheck the stuff Vro made before getting lynchedI'm waiting to see if Ex gains any more insights from this before I make a vote.
Post by: ExLight on February 26, 2021, 05:41:27 PM
nah I’m still lostWintermoot, considering you're one of the top three of people's scumspects and you've narrowed down who you're gonna vote for to either Nyght or me, why don't you go ahead and vote for either of us?can we please not vote yet I still want to recheck the stuff Vro made before getting lynchedI'm waiting to see if Ex gains any more insights from this before I make a vote.
you can say who you’re more likely to vote though
Post by: Wintermoot on February 26, 2021, 05:53:17 PM
Post by: Doc on February 26, 2021, 06:26:35 PM
Since there's already a vote on Gerrick and Ex prefers the vote on him, I'll go with the other half of my suspected Gerrick/Moot scumbud team.
Vote: Gerrick
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 26, 2021, 06:40:09 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 26, 2021, 06:41:38 PM
Post by: Red Mones on February 26, 2021, 07:05:04 PM
Vote: Gerrick
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 26, 2021, 07:13:33 PM
Probably a 50/50 on who dies out of me and Red but if I'm the one who dies then I just want to say I trust you all to win in my stead, no pressure, don't panic vote tomorrow if Gerrick is town, check Vroendel's post counts for earlier days and wolf interactions with each other / Michi / Ruguo to see what makes most sense and good luck!
You've all played well and I've really enjoyed playing with you all. Will surely play again in a later game!
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 26, 2021, 08:12:40 PM
Vote: Gerrick
Post by: Red Mones on February 26, 2021, 08:14:14 PM
Post by: Laurentus on February 26, 2021, 08:19:03 PM
Votecount:
Gerrick - 4 (Nyght, Doc, Red, Legacy)
Nyght - 1 (Gerrick)
Gerrick is the lynch. He was a normal Scout.
Post by: Laurentus on February 27, 2021, 06:01:52 AM
Post by: Laurentus on February 27, 2021, 06:02:58 AM
Post by: Red Mones on February 27, 2021, 06:18:00 AM
Good luck town! You got this. 8)
Post by: ExLight on February 27, 2021, 09:33:52 AM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 27, 2021, 10:08:43 AM
uh moot or nyghts, smiles?Well this is going to go badly if I choose wrong oh dear.
Assuming the scumteam is Nyght/Moot then I'm pretty sure that from the way Nyght has acted that he has to be the normal titan. Confidence level is about 65% because there's always a chance they just went with the flow but if I had to guess that's my call.
Might be worth checking how many of Moot's wagons Nyght was on.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 27, 2021, 11:14:50 AM
Ex/Doc, when you're free would you mind sharing your thoughts on who you personally would prefer out of Nyght/moot please?
Post by: Doc on February 27, 2021, 02:16:18 PM
Nyght, on the other hand, clearly bussed Moot in this post (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg158261#msg158261), which suggests Nyght is the non-armored titan since any 'bussing' of Moot would have had no actual impact).
The problem is, I have no fucking clue if that's intentional WIFOM mindfuckery or a genuine slip.
On balance, I'm inclined to believe it was a genuine slip on the basis of Gerrick noticing and jumping on the 'how do scum communicate' bit in this post (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=7019.msg158331#msg158331) as being a little too 'little lost lamb', and thus think I'm on around the same level of confidence that Nyght is the nonarmored as LoS (which is to say, 60-70%), which makes him a better bet than Moot.
Ex, thoughts?
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 27, 2021, 04:40:43 PM
I'm honestly shocked that Gerrick wasn't wolf. I figured him jumping in on me was a clear indicator he was trying to deflect.
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 27, 2021, 04:49:58 PM
Certainly the pool of suspects is miniscule. Two players cleared via mechanics of the game itself. One cleared by trust tell, and one cleared by an apathetic outburst. The remaining two being myself and moot have to find some way to overcome a seemingly insurmountable hurdle.
I will take my hill and die on the fact that trust tells shouldn't be trusted. But that decision is up to each person to make I suppose.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 27, 2021, 06:10:08 PM
I've spent day after day defending myself, and it seems the circumstances of this game are hell-bent on making me look as suspicious as possible...I really don't have anything more I can say at this point. I know from the perspective of everyone other than the wolves and myself that it must look like an open and shut case, it has to be myself and Nyght. At this point I can't do anything but continue to insist that I'm town, and reiterate the stakes of making the wrong choice this round.
Unrelated, I absolutely hate this kill by majority crap. I probably would have ended up voting Gerrick myself yesterday, so I'm not going to go around and claim that I didn't vote as a defense, but all kill by majority has done is deny town time to deliberate and make players who can't be active throughout the whole turn even more irrelevant than they were before. I know that there was an issue with votes piling on at the last minute of the day phases, but I don't think this was the answer. =/
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 27, 2021, 06:18:19 PM
I'm also surprised that Gerrick was town...it means (at least from my perspective) that at least one person who's been "cleared" shouldn't have been, and in that case the person with the strongest wolf case in my opinion remains Doc. I'm still apt to believe Ex, to the point that if he turned out to be a wolf it would lower my opinion of him in general. I just don't think it's right to promise something and stake your character and reputation on a lie in order to win a game, so I would be deeply disappointed if that's what ended up happening. LoS has apparently been mechanically cleared, so that leaves Doc, Nyght, and myself.A couple of questions for you if you'd answer these please:
I've spent day after day defending myself, and it seems the circumstances of this game are hell-bent on making me look as suspicious as possible...I really don't have anything more I can say at this point. I know from the perspective of everyone other than the wolves and myself that it must look like an open and shut case, it has to be myself and Nyght. At this point I can't do anything but continue to insist that I'm town, and reiterate the stakes of making the wrong choice this round.
Unrelated, I absolutely hate this kill by majority crap. I probably would have ended up voting Gerrick myself yesterday, so I'm not going to go around and claim that I didn't vote as a defense, but all kill by majority has done is deny town time to deliberate and make players who can't be active throughout the whole turn even more irrelevant than they were before. I know that there was an issue with votes piling on at the last minute of the day phases, but I don't think this was the answer. =/
1. If you're town and you had to pick two wolves between the three remaining people, who do you pick? (You've mostly said this in your post I'm just asking for clarity).
2. As a follow up from the above question, do you agree with voting Nyght today?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 27, 2021, 06:20:32 PM
The question I suppose for me is how do I proceed when my guilt is already decided.In the same vein to what I just asked Moot, please would you tell me who you think the two remaining wolves are and if you'd support voting Moot today?
Certainly the pool of suspects is miniscule. Two players cleared via mechanics of the game itself. One cleared by trust tell, and one cleared by an apathetic outburst. The remaining two being myself and moot have to find some way to overcome a seemingly insurmountable hurdle.
I will take my hill and die on the fact that trust tells shouldn't be trusted. But that decision is up to each person to make I suppose.
Post by: ExLight on February 27, 2021, 06:21:40 PM
The question I suppose for me is how do I proceed when my guilt is already decided.Doc isn’t cleared mechanically, only Legacy.
Certainly the pool of suspects is miniscule. Two players cleared via mechanics of the game itself. One cleared by trust tell, and one cleared by an apathetic outburst. The remaining two being myself and moot have to find some way to overcome a seemingly insurmountable hurdle.
I will take my hill and die on the fact that trust tells shouldn't be trusted. But that decision is up to each person to make I suppose.
You trying to shove me back into PoE really makes me want to go after you.
This tension is killing me, honestly.Wasn’t you saying this phase was 65/35? I’ll go with whoever you were 65ing, lol.
Ex/Doc, when you're free would you mind sharing your thoughts on who you personally would prefer out of Nyght/moot please?
Nyghts was pushing Moot so if they’re scum together Moot is more likely to be the armored, I guess?
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 27, 2021, 06:23:08 PM
I was 65 on Moot being armoured so looks like we agree on this.The question I suppose for me is how do I proceed when my guilt is already decided.Doc isn’t cleared mechanically, only Legacy.
Certainly the pool of suspects is miniscule. Two players cleared via mechanics of the game itself. One cleared by trust tell, and one cleared by an apathetic outburst. The remaining two being myself and moot have to find some way to overcome a seemingly insurmountable hurdle.
I will take my hill and die on the fact that trust tells shouldn't be trusted. But that decision is up to each person to make I suppose.
You trying to shove me back into PoE really makes me want to go after you.This tension is killing me, honestly.Wasn’t you saying this phase was 65/35? I’ll go with whoever you were 65ing, lol.
Ex/Doc, when you're free would you mind sharing your thoughts on who you personally would prefer out of Nyght/moot please?
Nyghts was pushing Moot so if they’re scum together Moot is more likely to be the armored, I guess?
Post by: Wintermoot on February 27, 2021, 06:30:13 PM
Doc was obviously frustrated and fatigued with the game a few days ago, and I believe he really did feel that way, but that doesn't necessarily indicate his role and he hasn't staked his reputation on his being town the way Ex has. To reiterate the case against him, he foreshadowed the same situation as what ended up happening between Ruguo and TGN but acted differently than he claimed that situation would prove, he was a wolf from last game if you believe Sapph's line about it being possible for someone to be wolf twice in a row before he was killed has any meaning in this game, and at one point he was on every wagon that resulted in a town kill but not on the wagon that resulted in a wolf kill.
To answer your second question, it's better to vote for Nyght than for me. I've been making this case against Doc virtually all game now, and I've been deeply frustrated at times how such a seemingly compelling case could be ignored in favor of wagons based on how someone "feels". I'm under no illusion of how much more difficult it's going to be to make that case now that I look so suspicious, whether it's now or next turn.
Post by: Wintermoot on February 27, 2021, 06:32:34 PM
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 27, 2021, 06:41:09 PM
Ex, tomorrow, please give both Doc and Moot a chance in the Final 3. I still feel pretty confident Doc is town but Moot honestly feels very towny too now. I'll trust whatever judgement you make on that front.
I want to vote Nyght today. Will wait for everyone else to agree before I do. Not sure if it's still necessary for us to vote in order or suspiciousness any more since we have 4 people agreeing on Nyght now but this is where I want to go today.
Let me know when you're ready to cast votes, everyone.
Post by: Doc on February 27, 2021, 06:45:51 PM
Let me know when you're ready to cast votes, everyone.Well enough.
Vote: Nyght
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 27, 2021, 06:46:25 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on February 27, 2021, 06:47:35 PM
Post by: NyghtOwl on February 27, 2021, 07:15:27 PM
Boy when y'all make mistakes you commit to em. But then again. That's how things got this far I suppose.
Post by: Laurentus on February 27, 2021, 07:45:42 PM
Your Wolves for this game were:
Ruguo
Nyght
Michi
Legacy of Smiles.
Well played to both sides, and thank you for the class you displayed all throughout! Feel free to join us in the spectator server now, where you'll be able to see all the discussion we had about the game, and I am sure the dead players will also have much to say in the normal Wintreath Discord server's Werewolf channel.
You have made hosting this game a true honour. :)
My spectator server: https://discord.gg/WArJ8WJT
Post by: ExLight on February 27, 2021, 07:52:48 PM
hahaha...
...soo
the no kill was on night 6 not on night 7
I messed that up and noone pointed it out
:panic:
I don’t think I’d’ve gone after Legacy despite that though, gg
grats to scum for winning this really townsided setup
sorry about me messing literally everything up this game I swear it’s usually not like this :panic:
Post by: TGN on February 27, 2021, 08:02:28 PM
ok then
gg everyone
I never left and I saw why Exlight said >: (
Post by: ExLight on February 27, 2021, 08:05:45 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on February 27, 2021, 08:24:03 PM
And sorry for my poor performance this game. I feel like I really let my team down on this one. =/
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 27, 2021, 08:33:19 PM
Congratulations to the wolves...it's hard to imagine how town could have lost more thoroughly. v_vYou absolutely did not lol. I'd have preferred to have chopped you today in order to brag about how many consecutive chops we got but you were so damn towny that I just couldn't do it.
And sorry for my poor performance this game. I feel like I really let my team down on this one. =/
Post by: Wintermoot on February 27, 2021, 08:39:12 PM
You absolutely did not lol. I'd have preferred to have chopped you today in order to brag about how many consecutive chops we got but you were so damn towny that I just couldn't do it.I kinda had to be though...I didn't join in on the Ruguo wagon, I intentionally voted for Sapph thinking his one line-defense was a half-hearted attempt from a wolf to save himself, and everyone I really thought I was a wolf turned out not to be (and even worse, two of them turned out to be defenders). By the end of it I ended up being so suspicious it's a wonder that I wasn't voted off. I probably would have voted for myself if I didn't know I was town, lol.
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 27, 2021, 09:03:30 PM
I don't think anybody in the game had a good voting record tbh, don't beat yourself up on that.You absolutely did not lol. I'd have preferred to have chopped you today in order to brag about how many consecutive chops we got but you were so damn towny that I just couldn't do it.I kinda had to be though...I didn't join in on the Ruguo wagon, I intentionally voted for Sapph thinking his one line-defense was a half-hearted attempt from a wolf to save himself, and everyone I really thought I was a wolf turned out not to be (and even worse, two of them turned out to be defenders). By the end of it I ended up being so suspicious it's a wonder that I wasn't voted off. I probably would have voted for myself if I didn't know I was town, lol.
Post by: TGN on February 27, 2021, 09:26:45 PM
(hopefully you mean me apologizing a dozen times and saying I felt bad lynching you after finding out your age umu)no not that
something else (I knew I should have put it at size 1)
Congratulations to the wolves...it's hard to imagine how town could have lost more thoroughly. v_vyou did good
And sorry for my poor performance this game. I feel like I really let my team down on this one. =/
(but me... not so much)
Post by: Doc on February 27, 2021, 10:23:35 PM
but let's not let it distract from some honestly phenomenal play by the scumteam, especially LoS, who towards the end was so deeply townread he could probably have said 'I'm 100% factually scum' and still de facto led town (as long as Lau didn't modkill him for a hard reveal) for another 3 days until we woke up and said 'wait...maybe he wasn't joking...'
in the end, since Michi was modkilled, the lynch record was 1 scum : 8 town, and that's, frankly, grotesque, so again, props to you guys
Post by: Legacy of Smiles on February 27, 2021, 10:46:34 PM
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 28, 2021, 02:31:31 AM
welp me saying the armored wasnt that strong came back to bite me in the ass
hahaha...
...soo
the no kill was on night 6 not on night 7
I messed that up and noone pointed it out
:panic:
I don’t think I’d’ve gone after Legacy despite that though, gg
grats to scum for winning this really townsided setup
sorry about me messing literally everything up this game I swear it’s usually not like this :panic:
I feel bad about u.
On the day Sapph lynch u were leading wagons , LoS was following , and the reverse happened here , for every step u took u were consulting with LoS . LoS is a piece of work in scumland , but don't forget that u were to teach me townreading .
Also i wasn't hiding my townreads because I was new , I just wanted LoS to go off the tracks and push me hard and subsequently look scummy .But he never , NEVER overplayed
LoS was outright >:D
Post by: Anubhav Ghosh on February 28, 2021, 02:34:21 AM
town collectively, with a few exceptions (Anubhav played exceptionally and Mel was good as always), screwed the pooch on this one, and i'll take on more than an equal share of blame because i made and pushed some terrible fucking calls
but let's not let it distract from some honestly phenomenal play by the scumteam, especially LoS, who towards the end was so deeply townread he could probably have said 'I'm 100% factually scum' and still de facto led town (as long as Lau didn't modkill him for a hard reveal) for another 3 days until we woke up and said 'wait...maybe he wasn't joking...'
in the end, since Michi was modkilled, the lynch record was 1 scum : 8 town, and that's, frankly, grotesque, so again, props to you guys
It took him two days to convert me into a detective on his tail to a doctor who protected him . I was amused to know that Vro and me protected him on the same night🤣
Post by: Red Mones on February 28, 2021, 06:29:48 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on February 28, 2021, 06:34:04 AM
Spectacular performance from the Wolf team, especially Legacy. 8)
And of course, special thanks to Lau for hosting and cleaning up the unexpected irregularities ;)
Post by: Wintermoot on February 28, 2021, 02:48:42 PM
In any case, I hope everyone enjoyed the game, and that our many guests who joined us this game enjoyed the community as well and will choose to remain with us between games. Thanks to dedicated and creative hosts like Laurentus, I'm sure our Werewolf scene will only grow further from here. We also have other forum games, as some of you playing Spyfall already know, and we're just a fun group of people. Well, when there isn't drama going on at least. :P
That's my pitch. Thanks to Laurentus for putting the time and thought into this "basic game" :P, and again, congrats to the wolves. :)
Post by: Wischland on February 28, 2021, 04:59:51 PM