Post by: Red Mones on December 07, 2020, 04:44:39 AM
(https://consequenceofsound.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/lord-of-the-rings-second-age-amazon-studios-map.png?w=807)
Rules
1) The first Day Phase will be roughly 72 hours. Each Day Phase afterward will be 48 hours, with each night phase being 24 hours. Phases will start and end in Pacific Standard Time. At the end of each Day Phase, the night phase will immediately start when the results from the Day Phase are posted, the same goes for the Night Phase.
2) When players are killed, they will be invited to a PM to spectate the events of the game and talk amongst themselves. Players are allowed ONE goodbye post, headered with "DEAD" in the thread once they're killed before moving to the PM. Dead players are not allowed to hint or make references to any roles they have any knowledge of (IE a dead seer revealing scum).
3) Hinting at information gained during night phases is allowed, revealing information is not. Both revealing and hinting roles is not allowed.
4) You will have one chance to vote "No Lynch" in the game. You may also choose to simply not vote to avoid using your "No Lynch" vote, but that can make you look equally suspicious. A vote for yourself counts as a vote for “No Lynch”. Not voting 2 day phases in a row will result in removal from the game. A substitute player may be placed in your position.
5) To vote during each day phase, please bold your choice for the host to see, an example being Vote: Red Mones.
6) During each night phase, Power Roles will send the Game Host a PM with their choices that night.
7 ) As mentioned in other Werewolf tip/trick topics, it is highly...highly recommended to not edit your posts (the game host being the only exception). Editing posts can be seen as withholding important information, and thus seen as incredibly suspicious. So while it isn't against the rules persay, just don't do it. It's very encouraged to keep your posts as is, regardless of any typos.
8 ) Rings are special, one-shot, abilities that are used during night phases. There are some exceptions, but generally, Ring abilities override role abilities.
9) Extended periods (Two, full, day-night cycles) of inactivity with no posts and no use of your role will result in removal from the game. A substitute player may be placed in your position.
10) While you are away from the main thread (i.e., You are in the wolf chat) you may NOT screenshot anything. Such posts here will be deleted and may result in you being removed from the game.
11) Do not communicate with each other outside of the game regarding your roles or the events of the game.
12) Fellowship = Villagers. Sauron's Forces = Wolves.
2) When players are killed, they will be invited to a PM to spectate the events of the game and talk amongst themselves. Players are allowed ONE goodbye post, headered with "DEAD" in the thread once they're killed before moving to the PM. Dead players are not allowed to hint or make references to any roles they have any knowledge of (IE a dead seer revealing scum).
3) Hinting at information gained during night phases is allowed, revealing information is not. Both revealing and hinting roles is not allowed.
4) You will have one chance to vote "No Lynch" in the game. You may also choose to simply not vote to avoid using your "No Lynch" vote, but that can make you look equally suspicious. A vote for yourself counts as a vote for “No Lynch”. Not voting 2 day phases in a row will result in removal from the game. A substitute player may be placed in your position.
5) To vote during each day phase, please bold your choice for the host to see, an example being Vote: Red Mones.
6) During each night phase, Power Roles will send the Game Host a PM with their choices that night.
7 ) As mentioned in other Werewolf tip/trick topics, it is highly...highly recommended to not edit your posts (the game host being the only exception). Editing posts can be seen as withholding important information, and thus seen as incredibly suspicious. So while it isn't against the rules persay, just don't do it. It's very encouraged to keep your posts as is, regardless of any typos.
8 ) Rings are special, one-shot, abilities that are used during night phases. There are some exceptions, but generally, Ring abilities override role abilities.
9) Extended periods (Two, full, day-night cycles) of inactivity with no posts and no use of your role will result in removal from the game. A substitute player may be placed in your position.
10) While you are away from the main thread (i.e., You are in the wolf chat) you may NOT screenshot anything. Such posts here will be deleted and may result in you being removed from the game.
11) Do not communicate with each other outside of the game regarding your roles or the events of the game.
12) Fellowship = Villagers. Sauron's Forces = Wolves.
There are 4 members of Sauron's forces.
Good luck, and have fun!
Mentions
Players remaining: 4/20
Princess Hapi
Vroendal
Wintermoot
Wischland
Day One begins with this post and will end in just under 72 hours on Wednesday, December 9th at roughly 12 PM PST.
Post by: Red Mones on December 07, 2020, 06:00:26 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 07, 2020, 06:06:44 AM
Post by: Red Mones on December 07, 2020, 06:25:39 AM
Quick question before the murdering commences: will there be a roles list?No roles list, no role reveals, and no sharing information gained from night-time abilities. There is darkness across the land. >:D
Post by: Laurentus on December 07, 2020, 06:27:38 AM
Post by: Red Mones on December 07, 2020, 06:32:44 AM
Post by: Michi on December 07, 2020, 06:45:39 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 07, 2020, 06:58:08 AM
Vote: Pengu
Post by: Michi on December 07, 2020, 07:20:06 AM
Vote: Laurentus
Post by: Dawsinian on December 07, 2020, 03:19:02 PM
Vote: Laurentus
Post by: Sapphiron on December 07, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
Vote: Pengu
Post by: Wintermoot on December 07, 2020, 04:57:02 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 07, 2020, 05:09:24 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 07, 2020, 06:10:43 PM
Post by: HumanSanity on December 07, 2020, 06:50:00 PM
There is some method to my madness. It was mostly an RVS vote, sure, but it is also all too easy to hide as a Wolf by just throwing out humorous references to the books while appearing active.This presumes I had read the books...
Post by: Wintermoot on December 07, 2020, 07:09:31 PM
There is some method to my madness. It was mostly an RVS vote, sure, but it is also all too easy to hide as a Wolf by just throwing out humorous references to the books while appearing active.
Quote
RVS: Random Voting Stage. Most Mafia games start with a phase wherein people vote for silly reasons, until someone slips up or makes a legitimate accusation.Your Werewolf terminology post comes in handy again. :P
I think I personally want to wait a day or so and see where the votes and accusations fly. At this point it's hard to know anything with just a handful of us posting so far.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 07, 2020, 07:38:53 PM
Post by: Doc on December 07, 2020, 08:15:18 PM
11) ABSOLUTELY NO outside communication is allowed with other players. Ever.
We lynch inactives in XKI sometimes so we could consider that here when we're closer to the deadline.This poses a valid question though; is there an inactivity lynch or do we just leave them in the game?
Post by: Red Mones on December 07, 2020, 08:28:04 PM
Quote
9) Extended periods (Two, full, day-night cycles) of inactivity with no posts and no use of your role will result in removal from the game. A substitute player may be placed in your position.
Post by: Wintermoot on December 07, 2020, 08:38:37 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 07, 2020, 08:48:09 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 07, 2020, 10:11:09 PM
Post by: Gerrick on December 07, 2020, 10:28:59 PM
Vote: Flying Eagles
Post by: TGN on December 07, 2020, 10:29:22 PM
Vote Pengu
Post by: HumanSanity on December 07, 2020, 10:30:01 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 07, 2020, 10:30:24 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 07, 2020, 10:34:07 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 07, 2020, 10:48:57 PM
*draws sword*
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 08, 2020, 01:37:07 AM
Are we allowed to speculate about the roles here?Shall we speculate away then?
(More logistical and question for @Red Mones , to what extent can we "speculate"? Not, perhaps to the point that your role is implied, but perhaps to the point that supposing some general class of role exists?
Post by: Michi on December 08, 2020, 02:15:22 AM
We lynch inactives in XKI sometimes so we could consider that here when we're closer to the deadline.
See, Wintreath tradition is usually that we go crazy and accidentally kill off the seer day one.
Here's to hoping we don't stick to tradition.
Post by: Red Mones on December 08, 2020, 02:27:52 AM
You can do anything except reveal your own role. :PAre we allowed to speculate about the roles here?Shall we speculate away then?
(More logistical and question for @Red Mones , to what extent can we "speculate"? Not, perhaps to the point that your role is implied, but perhaps to the point that supposing some general class of role exists?
Post by: turtle on December 08, 2020, 03:28:46 AM
Post by: Doc on December 08, 2020, 05:08:27 AM
You can do anything except reveal your own role. :PHow far does this extend?
Could one hint, however more-or-less obliquely, towards a role?
Or is the restriction more in the nature of allowing someone to say 'I have a role very much like the Seer' so long as they don't copypaste a textbox saying (as an example I'm pulling out of my ass from book knowledge) 'I am Gandalf the Grey, elf-friend, bearer of Narya and Glamdring alike, known to some as Mithrandir and others as Tharkun; servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor'.
Cause roleclaims are rather a double-edged sword, and removing that seems like it might remove some of the fun.
Post by: Red Mones on December 08, 2020, 05:58:35 AM
How far does this extend?Hinting at information gained during night phases is allowed, revealing information is not. Both revealing and hinting roles is not allowed.
Could one hint, however more-or-less obliquely, towards a role?
Or is the restriction more in the nature of allowing someone to say 'I have a role very much like the Seer' so long as they don't copypaste a textbox saying (as an example I'm pulling out of my ass from book knowledge) 'I am Gandalf the Grey, elf-friend, bearer of Narya and Glamdring alike, known to some as Mithrandir and others as Tharkun; servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor'.
Cause roleclaims are rather a double-edged sword, and removing that seems like it might remove some of the fun.
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 05:59:40 AM
Crazy stuff happening in Wintreath (ns not forum)
Vote Pengu
What is the reason for this vote?
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 06:04:14 AM
We lynch inactives in XKI sometimes so we could consider that here when we're closer to the deadline.
Nah, fam. "Lynch the inactives" doesn't make sense when they will either get removed from the game, or replaced with someone more active. I'd rather make a misstep with an active player, and analyse the voting patterns the next day, than give the wolves such an easy bus to fall onto.
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 06:07:15 AM
There is some method to my madness. It was mostly an RVS vote, sure, but it is also all too easy to hide as a Wolf by just throwing out humorous references to the books while appearing active.This presumes I had read the books...
I find your lack of an avatar... disturbing. What are you hiding? ???
Post by: Wischland on December 08, 2020, 06:08:46 AM
Guess I'll have to keep watching and see if anything interesting happens. Still have plenty of time before this day phase ends after all.
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 06:09:26 AM
11) ABSOLUTELY NO outside communication is allowed with other players. Ever.aight everyone get off the discord, it's too much of a riskWe lynch inactives in XKI sometimes so we could consider that here when we're closer to the deadline.This poses a valid question though; is there an inactivity lynch or do we just leave them in the game?
You know, previous experience has taught me to be wary of you commenting/speculating on the game this much, as it tends to be a tactic to make you look productive. You gonna start scum-hunting soon?
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 06:11:51 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 06:17:44 AM
So on the first day are we just gonna randomly vote
No, RVS ends when we have gained enough of an idea to start letting actual accusations fly. It's a phase characterised by reaction testing, and seeing who has scummy motivations, and who has townie motivations.
Post by: Red Mones on December 08, 2020, 06:18:03 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 06:20:03 AM
Post by: Doc on December 08, 2020, 06:21:24 AM
You know, previous experience has taught me to be wary of you commenting/speculating on the game this much, as it tends to be a tactic to make you look productive. You gonna start scum-hunting soon?If this was day 2, your observation might be valid.
This is, however, day 1, and to the best of my knowledge, the only people with any information to work with are scum. Not being one, and not being privy to their information, the best I can do is faff around just like everybody else in the game right now until we've got something to work with.
Even totting up vote totals is a bit pointless until the night phase/start of the next day phase, since there's literally nothing to compare them to.
Incidentally, you should really stop using jargon without explanation; there's lots of new people in the game and even if I recognize it, a lot of them won't.
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 06:24:55 AM
And to Doc, there is a whole thread dedicated to the jargon.
Post by: Vroendal on December 08, 2020, 07:03:11 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 07:12:48 AM
@Sapphiron, what do you think of Lau at the moment?
The real question is what do you think of me at the moment?
Post by: Vroendal on December 08, 2020, 07:16:55 AM
Wouldn't you like to know?@Sapphiron, what do you think of Lau at the moment?
The real question is what do you think of me at the moment?
Presently I'm town-reading you. I still dislike the ease with which you take over the Day Phase but since that's your m.o. and it seems to get interesting results most of the time I'm not going to complain or vote you. Does that answer satisfy you?
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 07:18:07 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 08, 2020, 07:21:44 AM
Not quite yet. Why are you town-reading me? What have I done that has been sufficiently pro-town?Because there hasn't been a chance for any night actions to be taken most of my reads D1 are based on gut instincts from the way you've been posting and what you've said. I'm not saying I'm certain you're town, just getting townie vibes. That may change, but it's true as of now.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 08, 2020, 07:25:00 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 07:26:26 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 07:27:15 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 08, 2020, 07:33:25 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 08, 2020, 10:44:21 AM
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 08, 2020, 02:23:13 PM
Post by: Dawsinian on December 08, 2020, 02:33:50 PM
Seems that I'm quite late to the party, but hello everyone!
Nice of you to show up
Post by: TGN on December 08, 2020, 04:01:11 PM
everyone else was doing it :PCrazy stuff happening in Wintreath (ns not forum)
Vote Pengu
What is the reason for this vote?
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 04:38:18 PM
Post by: Michi on December 08, 2020, 05:43:43 PM
everyone else was doing it :PCrazy stuff happening in Wintreath (ns not forum)
Vote Pengu
What is the reason for this vote?
Ngl, that's a little suspicious to break a tie vote with the reason "everyone else was doing it." If everyone else was, it wouldn't be a 1-1 tie
Post by: TGN on December 08, 2020, 06:26:56 PM
I saw around 6 votes for him so sue me if I'm wrong, maybe I was on a different treadeveryone else was doing it :PCrazy stuff happening in Wintreath (ns not forum)
Vote Pengu
What is the reason for this vote?
Ngl, that's a little suspicious to break a tie vote with the reason "everyone else was doing it." If everyone else was, it wouldn't be a 1-1 tie
Post by: Dawsinian on December 08, 2020, 06:31:03 PM
TGN susI saw around 6 votes for him so sue me if I'm wrong, maybe I was on a different treadeveryone else was doing it :PCrazy stuff happening in Wintreath (ns not forum)
Vote Pengu
What is the reason for this vote?
Ngl, that's a little suspicious to break a tie vote with the reason "everyone else was doing it." If everyone else was, it wouldn't be a 1-1 tie
Post by: TGN on December 08, 2020, 06:35:47 PM
Post by: TGN on December 08, 2020, 06:38:03 PM
you would be saying the same thing if I voted for the other person everyone was voting, I SWEAR people were voting himwait I looked back, I thought there were more votes for Pengu my bad
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 06:40:34 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 06:45:57 PM
Post by: TGN on December 08, 2020, 07:32:49 PM
But okay, even if this was your point of view at the time, why push Pengu to such a massive majority at the time?idk
Post by: Red Mones on December 08, 2020, 07:40:07 PM
Michi - 3 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, TGN)
Laurentus - 2 (Michi, Dawsinian)
Flying Eagles - 1 (Gerrick)
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 08:27:47 PM
Post by: Doc on December 08, 2020, 09:19:30 PM
This doesn't say 'sus' to me, this says 'this is my first time doing this and I'm very worried about getting lynched over some missed cue'. To my mind, that reads Town, not scum.
Anyway, I'm going to be busy this evening so on the off-chance I don't check back in before day-phase ends (incidentally, a reminder to everyone that there's 24 hours left!), I'm going to Vote: Hapi because Hapi's meta is almost inevitably a grave danger to town, whether scum or not, on the basis of her deliberate randomness.
I'm thinking of it as a sacrifice for the greater good, which is unfortunately a joke basically nobody will get cause very few of the Among Us crew seems to be here.
(The vote is still serious, but the reasoning is half-a-joke)
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 09:43:29 PM
My gut isn't picking up anything with Doc that screams Wolf, which I suppose should be about as strong a signal as I'm going to get this early of his potential innocence, especially as nothing he's done has felt like it has an ulterior motive to it yet. It is Doc, though, so I'll reserve judgment.
I have not seen Vro pushing an agenda, which is something he tried to do quite aggressively in the last game we played together, but I also recognise him as a player with incredible potential, and would not expect him to try a style that clearly didn't work out for him last time, so that is again NAI.
Then there's frankly mostly crap-posting from a few people like Daws, Sapphiron being very tight-lipped (well within meta for either alignment), Gerrick observing everything but not engaging (again, well within meta) and @Pengu just kinda rubbing my gut wrong.
As to why that is, Pengu, I'm surprised that you characterised TGN's action for voting for you as suspicious. Until his reaction to your post, I was leaning heavily towards them just being new and having a desire to do as the Romans do, so to speak.
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 09:45:21 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 09:59:42 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 08, 2020, 11:06:13 PM
Of all the people you mentioned Lau including yourself, the person I feel most comfortable voting right now is actually Gerrick. While I concede that he may be in the meta for either alignment, his vote was very weird considering it had no follow-up. I just really don't understand it and I dislike not understanding something.
Also speaking of the last game we played together in regards to Gerrick, you voted him yourself D1 "because he has a lurky playstyle". I get that Pengu's is rubbing you wrong, but I feel that Gerrick has been even more weird than Pengu, and I feel has talked less than any other game I've played with him which is screaming danger to me. Is there a reason you're not pushing him as hard now?
If only to ask "what's up?", Vote: Gerrick
Post by: Wille-Harlia on December 08, 2020, 11:25:11 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 11:29:17 PM
Also recall that I said that about Gerrick when I was a Wolf. I was going to say literally anything to cast suspicion somewhere.
Post by: Vroendal on December 08, 2020, 11:32:14 PM
I am never voting Gerrick off day one. It's just not happening. I'd be fine with having him as a counter-wagon, though.I'm fine with that and respect that, I just want him to talk.
Also recall that I said that about Gerrick when I was a Wolf. I was going to say literally anything to cast suspicion somewhere.
This was Take 2, when you were town. It's on page 7.
Post by: Laurentus on December 08, 2020, 11:38:42 PM
I am not going to elaborate more on that with Gerrick, though. Suffice to say there's something I'm waiting for.
Post by: Red Mones on December 09, 2020, 01:07:58 AM
Michi - 3 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, TGN)
Laurentus - 2 (Michi, Dawsinian)
Flying Eagles - 1 (Gerrick)
Hapi - 1 (Doc)
Gerrick - 1 (Vroendal)
Post by: turtle on December 09, 2020, 02:00:36 AM
Vote The Greenlandic North
Post by: Michi on December 09, 2020, 02:26:57 AM
@Michi, apologies.
I mean, if you really feel like that, maybe take your vote off me and put it on someone else to have it be a tie again. <.<
TGN's vote jump is just as random as your vote against me for having a party, yet you're jumping at him and wondering why he did such a thing while keeping your own vote, even though either one of you or Sapph could bring it back to a tie. <.<
Post by: TGN on December 09, 2020, 02:30:22 AM
wait... we can remove our vote?@Michi, apologies.
I mean, if you really feel like that, maybe take your vote off me and put it on someone else to have it be a tie again. <.<
TGN's vote jump is just as random as your vote against me for having a party, yet you're jumping at him and wondering why he did such a thing while keeping your own vote, even though either one of you or Sapph could bring it back to a tie. <.<
Post by: Ruguo on December 09, 2020, 02:49:50 AM
wait... we can remove our vote?
Yes! Just like casting your vote, simply bold the word "Unvote" like so:
Unvote
If you wish to change your vote, a good way to do this is by stating:
Unvote
Vote: Ruguo
But even if you forget to unvote, most hosts will count a new vote for someone different as an automatic change in vote.
Post by: Red Mones on December 09, 2020, 02:58:42 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 09, 2020, 03:27:03 AM
Lau, I realize you're reaction testing and probing (that or trying to come up with a reason, however shaky, to 'reasonably' move beyond RVS, as I'd expect from wolf-you, but I've no reason to jump to that conclusion yet), but let's also recognize that TGN is 1) new to the game, 2) new to the community, and 3) rather younger than most of the rest of us, all of which are going to contribute heavily towards getting very defensive very quickly.
This doesn't say 'sus' to me, this says 'this is my first time doing this and I'm very worried about getting lynched over some missed cue'. To my mind, that reads Town, not scum.
Anyway, I'm going to be busy this evening so on the off-chance I don't check back in before day-phase ends (incidentally, a reminder to everyone that there's 24 hours left!), I'm going to Vote: Hapi because Hapi's meta is almost inevitably a grave danger to town, whether scum or not, on the basis of her deliberate randomness.
I'm thinking of it as a sacrifice for the greater good, which is unfortunately a joke basically nobody will get cause very few of the Among Us crew seems to be here.
(The vote is still serious, but the reasoning is half-a-joke)
But I am the real strider, fortunately. My actions may cause chaos but my heart still stands with Fredonia.
FOR FRODO!
Vote: Doc
It may be tit for tat but not idly so the leaves of Lorein fall.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 09, 2020, 03:28:02 AM
Post by: TGN on December 09, 2020, 04:06:14 AM
Yup, if you vote for a second player, I’ll consider it a vote change.Unvote
can a skip?
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 09, 2020, 04:13:29 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 04:18:12 AM
can a skip?
You can "skip" if you want TGN, but be aware that -
4) You will have one chance to vote "No Lynch" in the game. You may also choose to simply not vote to avoid using your "No Lynch" vote, but that can make you look equally suspicious. A vote for yourself counts as a vote for “No Lynch”. Not voting 2 day phases in a row will result in removal from the game. A substitute player may be placed in your position.
And ogun I don't think my vote is random at all, and it is certainly not based just from last game.
Post by: Red Mones on December 09, 2020, 04:18:46 AM
Edit: Vro got to it first. :P
Post by: Wischland on December 09, 2020, 04:42:32 AM
How much time do we have left before the end of this day phase? 24 more hours?
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 05:02:08 AM
@Michi, apologies.
I mean, if you really feel like that, maybe take your vote off me and put it on someone else to have it be a tie again. <.<
TGN's vote jump is just as random as your vote against me for having a party, yet you're jumping at him and wondering why he did such a thing while keeping your own vote, even though either one of you or Sapph could bring it back to a tie. <.<
Huh? I honestly can't make sense of this post.
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 09, 2020, 05:25:50 AM
Though I reserve the right to change my vote to keep Lau from dying in the first round should the need arise. :P
Post by: TGN on December 09, 2020, 05:55:33 AM
To @The Greenlandic North and @ogunbiyi6422: You may choose not to vote, but doing so two days in a row will get you mod-killed. You also have one No-Lynch vote. Voting for yourself counts as voting No-Lynch.Skip Vote
Edit: Vro got to it first. :P
need more context
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 05:55:50 AM
Yeah, right now I'm leaning towards not voting. Call it a different play style, but I feel weird voting this early and pretty much randomly. It's tough for me to make assessments on so little information cause I've never played with most of you before and can't really judge your writing/play styles well enough to make a decision.
How much time do we have left before the end of this day phase? 24 more hours?
Okay, can I get a tally of how many peeps there are from XKI, and who you are? I have a feeling culture clash is going to cause problems if we don't get ahead of this.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 06:05:33 AM
@Michi, apologies.
I mean, if you really feel like that, maybe take your vote off me and put it on someone else to have it be a tie again. <.<
TGN's vote jump is just as random as your vote against me for having a party, yet you're jumping at him and wondering why he did such a thing while keeping your own vote, even though either one of you or Sapph could bring it back to a tie. <.<
Okay, I am now mostly awake and can finally be somewhat articulate. Here's what doesn't make sense about this post:
1. If I feel like what? And why would I want a tie?
2. What TGN vote jump? He's stayed on you pretty consistently until he heard he had the option to vote no lynch, which he has now done.
3. I didn't "jump at him," I simply asked him why he voted for you.
4. Either one of us and Sapph? What do you mean? Why do we want ties?
5. Did you miss the part where I said I was gut-reading you as scum based on your suspicion of TGN?
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 06:07:52 AM
Post by: TGN on December 09, 2020, 06:10:27 AM
Also, I have just 3666 karma. Don't any of you bastards dare like a post of mine again. >:(yes sir *cowers in fear*
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 06:12:29 AM
Also, I have just 3666 karma. Don't any of you bastards dare like a post of mine again. >:(https://imgur.com/fwyRoIy
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 06:13:58 AM
Post by: Wischland on December 09, 2020, 06:15:29 AM
Okay, can I get a tally of how many peeps there are from XKI, and who you are? I have a feeling culture clash is going to cause problems if we don't get ahead of this.From a glance at the player list, it looks like 5. Me, Eastern New England, Flying Eagles, HumanSanity, and Wille-Harlia. I think things will smooth out as we get more used to playing with y'all. Until then, the culture clash can be part of the fun. Adds a little extra spice. ;)
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 06:17:12 AM
FTFY Alas, the moment was gone too soon. (I'm so sorry, I had to >.<)NO! You monster!
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 06:29:39 AM
Okay, can I get a tally of how many peeps there are from XKI, and who you are? I have a feeling culture clash is going to cause problems if we don't get ahead of this.From a glance at the player list, it looks like 5. Me, Eastern New England, Flying Eagles, HumanSanity, and Wille-Harlia. I think things will smooth out as we get more used to playing with y'all. Until then, the culture clash can be part of the fun. Adds a little extra spice. ;)
You have now been designated as the spokeperson for XKI. A request: even if you don't want to vote, can you comment on how this day has proceeded and what your general vibes from everyone are as to their alignment? It would be awesome if all XKIers can do this, as well.
Post by: Wischland on December 09, 2020, 07:40:28 AM
You have now been designated as the spokeperson for XKI. A request: even if you don't want to vote, can you comment on how this day has proceeded and what your general vibes from everyone are as to their alignment? It would be awesome if all XKIers can do this, as well.Oh no, responsibility. How am I supposed to slack off now?
But sure, I'll share some of my general impressions of the day. All I ask is that you remember I've never played with most of you before, so if I'm calling out something as suspicious when it, in reality, is normal for someone, please excuse my ignorance. Also, I'm going to refer to everyone with forum names to avoid any errors in identifying people.
So initially, I though Laurentus and Michi were suspicious for their near-immediate votes, but I've come to realize that's pretty normal, so I'm not too worried about it anymore. I'm inclined to think Lau is a good guy because of posts like this one:
Not quite yet. Why are you town-reading me? What have I done that has been sufficiently pro-town?I feel like a wolf would just accept anything that suggested they were a good guy rather than questioning it. Could be some reverse psychology, but I'm inclined to think not.
Gerrick also stood out to me for kinda randomly voting for Flying Eagles, and then not really making any further attempts to investigate. Possibly an attempt to start a bandwagon then fade away to avoid attention?
Finally Princess Hapi struck me as odd. I feel like they made a lot of fluff posts, with some banal comment or LoTR reference, without actually making any attempt to gain more insight into other's thoughts. Felt like an attempt to give the appearance of activity without actually doing anything helpful.
Post by: Red Mones on December 09, 2020, 07:54:46 AM
The current vote count is:
Michi - 2 (Laurentus, Sapphiron)
Laurentus - 2 (Michi, Dawsinian)
Flying Eagles - 1 (Gerrick)
Hapi - 1 (Doc)
Gerrick - 1 (Vroendal)
TGN - 1 (Turtle)
Doc - 1 (Hapi)
Dawsinian - 1 (BraveSirRobin)
The following players have not yet posted:
@Dawcreek
@Eastern New England
@newvitalania
There are currently no penalties for this, but I still encourage you to post.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 08:58:28 AM
You have now been designated as the spokeperson for XKI. A request: even if you don't want to vote, can you comment on how this day has proceeded and what your general vibes from everyone are as to their alignment? It would be awesome if all XKIers can do this, as well.Oh no, responsibility. How am I supposed to slack off now?
But sure, I'll share some of my general impressions of the day. All I ask is that you remember I've never played with most of you before, so if I'm calling out something as suspicious when it, in reality, is normal for someone, please excuse my ignorance. Also, I'm going to refer to everyone with forum names to avoid any errors in identifying people.
So initially, I though Laurentus and Michi were suspicious for their near-immediate votes, but I've come to realize that's pretty normal, so I'm not too worried about it anymore. I'm inclined to think Lau is a good guy because of posts like this one:Not quite yet. Why are you town-reading me? What have I done that has been sufficiently pro-town?I feel like a wolf would just accept anything that suggested they were a good guy rather than questioning it. Could be some reverse psychology, but I'm inclined to think not.
Gerrick also stood out to me for kinda randomly voting for Flying Eagles, and then not really making any further attempts to investigate. Possibly an attempt to start a bandwagon then fade away to avoid attention?
Finally Princess Hapi struck me as odd. I feel like they made a lot of fluff posts, with some banal comment or LoTR reference, without actually making any attempt to gain more insight into other's thoughts. Felt like an attempt to give the appearance of activity without actually doing anything helpful.
Thank God, finally there is a post that seems overwhelmingly townie. I like your progression and rationale for your reads here. You are going to be a dangerous Wolf if you rolled that for this game.
Yeah, Doc's vote for Hapi was about exactly this. Hapi is really random in these games, and even though I've only played one game with her, I think spotting her Wolf meta is going to be damn difficult because of said randomness. We'd probably need a mechanical clear of some kind to eliminate suspicion from Hapi as a result.
I'll let Gerrick defend himself, but I am going to vehemently oppose literally any situation where he has a majority. If you are puzzled about this, I invite you to read some of the games he's played in. That's not to say that he's going to be out of my PoE indefinitely, but voting him off this early is most likely not going to be in town's best interest if he is also Town.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 01:41:57 PM
Post by: TGN on December 09, 2020, 03:08:51 PM
Vote turtle
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 03:57:56 PM
Hmm. Doc or anyone else really who can recall a lot of book/movie references for LOTR, which characters has Hapi been referencing so far?
Gentlemen, we do not stop 'til nightfall.Said by Aragorn, a member of the Fellowship.
Dying D1 to a random lynch as doctor is also a bad idea :P but if by my death I can protect you than you will have my sword.Said by Aragorn.
*draws sword*
What does your heart tell you?Said again by Aragorn.
"But I am the real strider, fortunately. My actions may cause chaos but my heart still stands with Frodo*.
FOR FRODO!
...not idly so the leaves of Lorein fall."
And, unsurprisingly once again said by Aragorn.
Hinting at information gained during night phases is allowed, revealing information is not. Both revealing and hinting roles is not allowed.But as this is a thing (though it was a post that might have been missed rather than a rule), either Hapi messed up or is very purposefully misleading us. I recommend in either case we completely ignore it, if only for the possibility of keeping the integrity of the game.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 09, 2020, 04:06:50 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 04:29:34 PM
Would be a weird scum tactic to soft-claim it, because there is almost definitely an Aragorn somewhere, and it is likely associated with town. Counter-claims would be interesting.
If we do have something like a role cop, Hapi might not be a bad scan choice in the night.
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 04:42:29 PM
Hmm, seems she's soft-claiming Aragorn as her character, but this doesn't reveal much about specific abilities associated with it.Tbh Lau, I strongly disagree I think Hapi would be one of the worst scan choices for several reasons:
Would be a weird scum tactic to soft-claim it, because there is almost definitely an Aragorn somewhere, and it is likely associated with town. Counter-claims would be interesting.
If we do have something like a role cop, Hapi might not be a bad scan choice in the night.
a) This is such a Hapi thing to do to hint at her own role or information (she's even mentioned that she likes to do that in a previous game) that really I have no doubt of its truth.
b) I don't think scum would allow her to draw this much attention to herself in the fear that she would be checked.
c) There could possibly be roles that allow for messing with the results of a check and since she's a more obvious target for checks now I consider that any results may be purposefully screwed with as the result of prediction.
d) Lastly, ngl Hapi is pretty low on my list of highest susses right now anyway, I think far more could be gained in terms of information from so many other people.
I'm a little surprised you would say something like that. It makes me feel that you're subtly deflecting from yourself. I am aware that I've said you were deflecting as a wolf in the past, but my point still stands here and now. :p
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 04:45:34 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 04:54:09 PM
Hmm, seems she's soft-claiming Aragorn as her character, but this doesn't reveal much about specific abilities associated with it.Tbh Lau, I strongly disagree I think Hapi would be one of the worst scan choices for several reasons:
Would be a weird scum tactic to soft-claim it, because there is almost definitely an Aragorn somewhere, and it is likely associated with town. Counter-claims would be interesting.
If we do have something like a role cop, Hapi might not be a bad scan choice in the night.
a) This is such a Hapi thing to do to hint at her own role or information (she's even mentioned that she likes to do that in a previous game) that really I have no doubt of its truth.
b) I don't think scum would allow her to draw this much attention to herself in the fear that she would be checked.
c) There could possibly be roles that allow for messing with the results of a check and since she's a more obvious target for checks now I consider that any results may be purposefully screwed with as the result of prediction.
d) Lastly, ngl Hapi is pretty low on my list of highest susses right now anyway, I think far more could be gained in terms of information from so many other people.
I'm a little surprised you would say something like that. It makes me feel that you're subtly deflecting from yourself. I am aware that I've said you were deflecting as a wolf in the past, but my point still stands here and now. :p
That said, please point me in the direction of where Hapi has done this.
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 04:57:01 PM
That said, please point me in the direction of where Hapi has done this.
I do purposely play chaotic but I also usually leave hints to my role in small things like this ;)From the Summersend Game.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 04:59:02 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 05:03:24 PM
Okay, that makes your progression here difficult to track. Was I in that Summersend game?No you were not, it was from this year. If you want to read it you can click on the quote message header and that brings you to the quote itself. (Just found that out now o.O) She was a wolf that game, which was tree-themed with the wolves being lumberjacks, that quote was in reference to her aversion to the tree puns profilic throughout the game. :p I'm just imagining that she is taking it one step farther, the Summersend being the latest game she has played to my understanding.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 05:15:50 PM
It's a sharp observation that Wolf-me would want to do this as a tactic not to be scanned N1, for once, but that also seems rather lazer focused. I don't recall you showing much of an interest in any scumspects besides Gerrick, up to this point, and Gerrick can be considered rather low-hanging fruit. You have not appeared overtly solvey, and based on your interaction with Sapph, I am beginning to suspect that you have been waiting to try and see if you can case me. Not taking into consideration that I do not have that much knowledge of Hapi as you do is equally eye-raising.
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 05:41:42 PM
Alright, so it could track that you think she's doing a repeat here, but I'm having severe issues with your certainty. To me, it seems like the logical next step to an established pattern of behaviour would be to use it to the benefit of scum, as well, particularly if, by doing so, she can make players like you unquestionably accept her as Town, to the point of being 100% certain. That almost seems like too much information, in fact. It also seems uncharacteristic for someone as sharp as you to not consider the clear scum-benefits this could accrue if used correctly.My certainty as you put it is not based only on the factors of possibility I personally observe, but rather a combination of that, my gut reads, and the direction the game is taking. I may also say that if more information comes up that I find relevant I may refute my certainty. I'm not telling you or anyone else to think of her as clear, this is just my own personal opinion. That being said I do feel that scanning her is a rather bad choice for tonight and felt the need to state that. Ofc I have considered that she is pulling one over on me/us, I even mentioned that she could be purposefully misleading us, but that is just not clicking true in my head right now. I see what you mean about using it for the benefit of scum for sure, but I'm not seeing it yet. As of what is characteristic for me, I don't think that's a very strong base anyway for determining my alignment, I'm still finding my own playstyle, not having much experience.
It's a sharp observation that Wolf-me would want to do this as a tactic not to be scanned N1, for once, but that also seems rather lazer focused. I don't recall you showing much of an interest in any scumspects besides Gerrick, up to this point, and Gerrick can be considered rather low-hanging fruit. You have not appeared overtly solvey, and based on your interaction with Sapph, I am beginning to suspect that you have been waiting to try and see if you can case me. Not taking into consideration that I do not have that much knowledge of Hapi as you do is equally eye-raising.
I would think you would understand why I would be lazar-focused on you. You've been very active and have talked a lot, and I find myself growing increasingly wary of people in the position of taking over the town, justifiably so. I also consider that you may be using your position as the experienced player to appear townie to our newcomers as well. Setting yourself up as the (idk really what I mean here but I know what I see dang it) spokesperson they should talk to puts a lot of authority on yourself and could be used to farther the goals of scum should you be one. I mentioned that I town-read you earlier, that does not mean you still can't be wolf. Just because I've been using Gerrick publicly does not mean I'm not sussing anyone else, it just means he's the one I'm most comfortable pushing right now. Ofc I've been trying to case you, you set yourself up in a very strong position from D1. I don't know exactly what you mean by solvey. I don't understand what part of it is eye-raising specifically, could you please elaborate?
Basically Lau, I have my own opinions on the players and the actions they've taken, and I'm using my own logic and knowledge to justify it as far I as feel comfortable doing so. I don't expect people to follow me, I want them to follow themselves (preferably in the direction I'm going but that's just my bias :p). I reserve the right to let my own opinions to influence what I say and the actions I take. There's probably more I could say but I've already written a lot and I don't want to wax on about this.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 06:21:48 PM
Alright, so it could track that you think she's doing a repeat here, but I'm having severe issues with your certainty. To me, it seems like the logical next step to an established pattern of behaviour would be to use it to the benefit of scum, as well, particularly if, by doing so, she can make players like you unquestionably accept her as Town, to the point of being 100% certain. That almost seems like too much information, in fact. It also seems uncharacteristic for someone as sharp as you to not consider the clear scum-benefits this could accrue if used correctly.My certainty as you put it is not based only on the factors of possibility I personally observe, but rather a combination of that, my gut reads, and the direction the game is taking. I may also say that if more information comes up that I find relevant I may refute my certainty. I'm not telling you or anyone else to think of her as clear, this is just my own personal opinion. That being said I do feel that scanning her is a rather bad choice for tonight and felt the need to state that. Ofc I have considered that she is pulling one over on me/us, I even mentioned that she could be purposefully misleading us, but that is just not clicking true in my head right now. I see what you mean about using it for the benefit of scum for sure, but I'm not seeing it yet. As of what is characteristic for me, I don't think that's a very strong base anyway for determining my alignment, I'm still finding my own playstyle, not having much experience.
It's a sharp observation that Wolf-me would want to do this as a tactic not to be scanned N1, for once, but that also seems rather lazer focused. I don't recall you showing much of an interest in any scumspects besides Gerrick, up to this point, and Gerrick can be considered rather low-hanging fruit. You have not appeared overtly solvey, and based on your interaction with Sapph, I am beginning to suspect that you have been waiting to try and see if you can case me. Not taking into consideration that I do not have that much knowledge of Hapi as you do is equally eye-raising.
I would think you would understand why I would be lazar-focused on you. You've been very active and have talked a lot, and I find myself growing increasingly wary of people in the position of taking over the town, justifiably so. I also consider that you may be using your position as the experienced player to appear townie to our newcomers as well. Setting yourself up as the (idk really what I mean here but I know what I see dang it) spokesperson they should talk to puts a lot of authority on yourself and could be used to farther the goals of scum should you be one. I mentioned that I town-read you earlier, that does not mean you still can't be wolf. Just because I've been using Gerrick publicly does not mean I'm not sussing anyone else, it just means he's the one I'm most comfortable pushing right now. Ofc I've been trying to case you, you set yourself up in a very strong position from D1. I don't know exactly what you mean by solvey. I don't understand what part of it is eye-raising specifically, could you please elaborate?
Basically Lau, I have my own opinions on the players and the actions they've taken, and I'm using my own logic and knowledge to justify it as far I as feel comfortable doing so. I don't expect people to follow me, I want them to follow themselves (preferably in the direction I'm going but that's just my bias :p). I reserve the right to let my own opinions to influence what I say and the actions I take. There's probably more I could say but I've already written a lot and I don't want to wax on about this.
It's not just a play-style thing, it's a question of competence. You are competent enough and, I would imagine, realistic enough to see the clear red flags of placing your faith so fully in Hapi. You're also being extraordinarily evasive about what makes you this certain. Just saying "my gut" and "the direction of the game" is not showing me your progression, and the irony is not lost on me that I'm calling you out for said evasive ess, either. Unfortunately for players like you, once you have shown yourself to be have that much potential, any logical inconsistency or irrational move you make will scream sus to me. And there is a clear contradiction in your thought-patterns here, as well. If you considered that she's pulling one over on us, you cannot simultaneously be completely certain. Especially if you don't show me the progression about how you got from "yeah, this is potentially a bit screwy" to "bruh, you're about to waste a night power and also how dare you try and be evasive again." I would also like to point out that I became ever so slightly concerned about her possibility to false-claim exactly because of your post mentioning the possibility of a ploy.
As for why your point about being laser-focused and justifiably so, again, there is a clear lack of progression in how you got to this. You stated very early on that this is just my usual MO, so I don't understand why you'd focus on that more than so much else happening right now. Certainly, I can have a devastating impact on the game if I am a Wolf and have positioned myself as Town leader, but worrying about this to the exclusion of all else is damaging to Town, because 1) It would absolutely be in the Wolves' best interest to remove said Town leader, especially in a game where there are so many new players who would just faff about aimlessly if not provided with direction, and 2) you are not getting any useful insights from any other players. "You have been very active and talked a lot" is also not exactly the best reason to be wary. What has the content of my posts been? Can you case those? (Yes, I know you're going to focus on the "Lau is evading the night scan!" angle, and yes, that's valid and I'm quite impressed by it, but you are not getting a free pass by virtue of only one thing you've finally been able to nail me with).
The part that was eye-raising is that your own experience with Hapi clearly played a big role in your alleged certainty in her Town status, and the truthfulness of her claim (I've already shown the inconsistency of your thought process and progression to this, so that's not what I'm focusing on now), yet you didn't consider that I was not a witness to those past actions myself, and then jumped straight to casing me about it instead of filling me in on the context that I was clearly sorely in need of.
Your last paragraph is basically just reiterating a point you already made in your first paragraph, and is a conclusion that I don't see as necessary, either, because I didn't accuse you of trying to sway people's votes or opinions in the first place.
So I'm stuck in a predicament. Do I try and get you voted off already, because you have now become my own main scumspect, but also risk losing a damn essential player if you are actually misguided Town, or do I keep you around with the risk that you just laser-focus on me the whole damn game and we derail the whole thread with our bickering?
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 06:26:37 PM
and the irony is not lost on me that I'm calling you out for said *evasiveness, either.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 06:30:38 PM
"As for why your point about being laser-focused and justifiably so"
should just have been
*As for
Post by: Gerrick on December 09, 2020, 07:03:14 PM
And I am in general terrible at reading people in Werewolf. I'm better at noticing trends in actions/votes rather than what my gut says. This puts me at a disadvantage in the beginning, but regardless, I'll give my thoughts so far.
I'm particularly terrible at reading Laurentus, but I will always think it's better for him to be in the game than not as he drives activity, which (whether intentional or not) tends to cause the wolves to show themselves. He's admitted to not being a good wolf, so if anything he's a liability to them and an asset to us -- better to keep him on.
Vroendal is the second most active person this game, which doesn't seem the norm for him, although from what I remember he does tend to be rather active. I'm tending to agree with him about Hapi here. Her "hints" seem to be heavier than usual, but they seem to be hints nonetheless, which is making me lean towards town with her (keyword: lean).
Michi is slightly leaning wolf with his accusations against The Greenlandic North, who is obviously very green (see what I did there? :P). And then has disappeared since then.
Doc is a little quiet, which is slightly concerning, but it's still too early for that to mean much. Plus, others are driving discussions, so he doesn't really need to.
Besides Wischland's observations (prompted by Laurentus), the other XKIers are much too quiet for my liking, having not made any votes nor said much of any use. I'll chalk this up to being on a different region's forums and not being used to our way of playing. But chances are that one of them is a wolf -- and I'm gonna say more than likely that two are.
Nobody else has done enough to make me think one way or the other, although Ogunbiyi is the only non-new Wintreanr who has not voted, which is casting suspicion on him in my eyes.
Laurentus is currently tied with Michi right now. Seeing as how I'd rather he not be killed off just yet (explained above), I'll change my vote to help offset that. I could change it to either Dawsinian, Hapi, Doc, or TGN to give them a three-way tie or to Michi to put him in the majority... I don't find Michi suspicious enough to go out on a limb to do that, so I suppose I'll change my vote to the one of the four I find most suspicious (mostly because he has made posts but nothing of real use).
Change Vote: Dawsinian
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 07:09:01 PM
As I say literally every game, I'm gonna vote for someone on Day 1 no matter what. Votes are the most efficient reaction tests and so the best way to get leads on wolves. And so my first votes on D1 are usually random with a joke reasoning.
And I am in general terrible at reading people in Werewolf. I'm better at noticing trends in actions/votes rather than what my gut says. This puts me at a disadvantage in the beginning, but regardless, I'll give my thoughts so far.
I'm particularly terrible at reading Laurentus, but I will always think it's better for him to be in the game than not as he drives activity, which (whether intentional or not) tends to cause the wolves to show themselves. He's admitted to not being a good wolf, so if anything he's a liability to them and an asset to us -- better to keep him on.
Vroendal is the second most active person this game, which doesn't seem the norm for him, although from what I remember he does tend to be rather active. I'm tending to agree with him about Hapi here. Her "hints" seem to be heavier than usual, but they seem to be hints nonetheless, which is making me lean towards town with her (keyword: lean).
Michi is slightly leaning wolf with his accusations against The Greenlandic North, who is obviously very green (see what I did there? :P). And then has disappeared since then.
Doc is a little quiet, which is slightly concerning, but it's still too early for that to mean much. Plus, others are driving discussions, so he doesn't really need to.
Besides Wischland's observations (prompted by Laurentus), the other XKIers are much too quiet for my liking, having not made any votes nor said much of any use. I'll chalk this up to being on a different region's forums and not being used to our way of playing. But chances are that one of them is a wolf -- and I'm gonna say more than likely that two are.
Nobody else has done enough to make me think one way or the other, although Ogunbiyi is the only non-new Wintreanr who has not voted, which is casting suspicion on him in my eyes.
Laurentus is currently tied with Michi right now. Seeing as how I'd rather he not be killed off just yet (explained above), I'll change my vote to help offset that. I could change it to either Dawsinian, Hapi, Doc, or TGN to give them a three-way tie or to Michi to put him in the majority... I don't find Michi suspicious enough to go out on a limb to do that, so I suppose I'll change my vote to the one of the four I find most suspicious (mostly because he has made posts but nothing of real use).
Change Vote: Dawsinian
I'm very curious what you think of my posts showing what are, to me, logical inconsistencies in Vro's reasoning.
Post by: Gerrick on December 09, 2020, 07:12:01 PM
Would be a weird scum tactic to soft-claim it, because there is almost definitely an Aragorn somewhere, and it is likely associated with town. Counter-claims would be interesting.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 07:15:02 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 07:15:43 PM
It's not just a play-style thing, it's a question of competence. You are competent enough and, I would imagine, realistic enough to see the clear red flags of placing your faith so fully in Hapi. You're also being extraordinarily evasive about what makes you this certain. Just saying "my gut" and "the direction of the game" is not showing me your progression, and the irony is not lost on me that I'm calling you out for said evasive ess, either. Unfortunately for players like you, once you have shown yourself to be have that much potential, any logical inconsistency or irrational move you make will scream sus to me. And there is a clear contradiction in your thought-patterns here, as well. If you considered that she's pulling one over on us, you cannot simultaneously be completely certain. Especially if you don't show me the progression about how you got from "yeah, this is potentially a bit screwy" to "bruh, you're about to waste a night power and also how dare you try and be evasive again." I would also like to point out that I became ever so slightly concerned about her possibility to false-claim exactly because of your post mentioning the possibility of a ploy.Okie, I see what you mean. First of all, it's BOLD of you to assume that just because I'm perhaps competent to some extent in your eyes I'm not oblivious as a brick to what's right in front of my nose. You're giving me far too much credit.
As for why your point about being laser-focused and justifiably so, again, there is a clear lack of progression in how you got to this. You stated very early on that this is just my usual MO, so I don't understand why you'd focus on that more than so much else happening right now. Certainly, I can have a devastating impact on the game if I am a Wolf and have positioned myself as Town leader, but worrying about this to the exclusion of all else is damaging to Town, because 1) It would absolutely be in the Wolves' best interest to remove said Town leader, especially in a game where there are so many new players who would just faff about aimlessly if not provided with direction, and 2) you are not getting any useful insights from any other players. "You have been very active and talked a lot" is also not exactly the best reason to be wary. What has the content of my posts been? Can you case those? (Yes, I know you're going to focus on the "Lau is evading the night scan!" angle, and yes, that's valid and I'm quite impressed by it, but you are not getting a free pass by virtue of only one thing you've finally been able to nail me with).
The part that was eye-raising is that your own experience with Hapi clearly played a big role in your alleged certainty in her Town status, and the truthfulness of her claim (I've already shown the inconsistency of your thought process and progression to this, so that's not what I'm focusing on now), yet you didn't consider that I was not a witness to those past actions myself, and then jumped straight to casing me about it instead of filling me in on the context that I was clearly sorely in need of.
Your last paragraph is basically just reiterating a point you already made in your first paragraph, and is a conclusion that I don't see as necessary, either, because I didn't accuse you of trying to sway people's votes or opinions in the first place.
So I'm stuck in a predicament. Do I try and get you voted off already, because you have now become my own main scumspect, but also risk losing a damn essential player if you are actually misguided Town, or do I keep you around with the risk that you just laser-focus on me the whole damn game and we derail the whole thread with our bickering?
As to Hapi, yes I clearly see the red flags, but until she herself says something that gives me a reason for lynching her, I don't want to. I really don't think I'm being evasive, I just don't have a reason that satisfies you. I'm sorry about that but ok. Tbh Lau, I'm pretty lazy and frankly don't feel like writing a super long analysis of Hapi and justifying my own opinions on D1. I also wish you would stop saying I have potential, it paints a target on me for lynches and kills and again you're giving me a lot of credit. If there is a contradiction, it is because my thoughts are irrational, and I'm not going to see that it's irrational until I figure it out myself. As for this part, aiyaiyai it's going to be hard to explain to your satisfaction. I am not completely certain of her true innocence at all, I am uncertain of anyone's true innocence until they die or the game is over. That is the logical view. However, from my view there is a point wherein I must overlook certain possibilities to let myself progress in the game farther, or else I'm just stuck spinning in circles until someone dies. I recognize that this is not a fullproof way at all, but you can't be stuck waiting around forever, you have to make a decision. I'm trying to build teams in my head, but I need to eliminate certain blocks first. My thought process of wasting a night power follows from there, and having played as a wolf I understand how useful predictions can be, my reasons for skipping over her have already been laid out to the best extent I can. Yes, I can definitely see why you would be worried about me. Ok. Am I worried about her at all? Yes or I wouldn't have said that there was a possibility it was a ploy. Am I choosing to allay my own worries like a fool? Yeah.
I'm focusing on you BECAUSE it's your usual MO. It's so easy for you to hide in plain sight just by habit. It gives you perfect excuses to start pushes on people. How dare you assume I'm excluding all else, you can't say I have potential then insult me like that. (I mean this in terms of the game I don't feel insulted) As to #1, ofc it is, have I voted you? No. Have I encouraged people to vote for you? No. Newer players will faff around without direction, but forgive me if I'm wary from where that direction is coming from. As for #2, I asked from Sapph just as much to see what he would say than from actually seeing what he thought of you. I've voted Gerrick to get him talking (which hasn't worked, I'm a bit irritated about that). You talking a lot may not be the best reason to be wary, but it's still a reason. I'm wary of you Lau because of your ability to talk, it sets you up as a leader and as the center of attention. The contents of your posts have been speaking townie to me except for the post that sets you up to be skipped by a night scan, not that I'm sure you'll be scanned anyway, just don't like the way you said it.
I didn't consider it bc my bad, I was thoughtless. Pardon me. :p I'm willing to clarify, and I did, I wanted to get through my list. My last paragraph functions as a reiteration because personally I get bored of long walls of text and wanted to just state what I felt was the main message of my post. The message was as much to the others reading this as to you, I wanted to talk preemptively.
You can do as you wish in your predicament, if I get voted off I have no one to blame but myself. I also don't understand why you would call me essential, you don't know anything about my role. I feel it would be more beneficial if I stopped talking altogether so others would speak. I'm just choosing to respond to your questions and statements based on what I see as important. If it would alleviate your fears as well if we voted off Hapi right here and now and have the possibility of someone checking me, we can do that. I just am not in favor of it. Anything has a certain extent of risk Lau. Will you decide to let me alive for now? Or will you fall ploy to your own paranoia and lynch me? I feel that either way you won't get the answers you want. This is just D1.
I think the thread is pretty much derailed already, my bad. You're not doing anything for your case either @Michi. @Wintermoot I think your thoughts would be interesting to hear as well. Thank you for responding Gerrick, I may have a response in another post, I have to read yours through first.
Also Lau, I make typos all the time, ignore them. You missed the one where I said I was "using" Gerrick when I meant to say "sussing" that one was the autocorrect's fault.
Post by: Wintermoot on December 09, 2020, 07:16:02 PM
I wanted to wait to vote because I don't believe a wolf would draw undue attention to themselves in the first round. I think they're more likely to vote at some point, try to get lost in the shuffle, and let the villagers duke it out among themselves. However, a unique opportunity opened up for the wolves when Laurentus and Michi voted for each other...both are strong players, and both would be big losses for the villagers if they're on that side.
Them voting for each other isn't necessarily suspicious in and of itself on the first round, but then Dawsinian and Sapphiron in short order pile onto those votes with no good explanation and no reconsideration as 9 pages of thoughts and information piled up, even though they've both made other posts since then. Sounds a lot like trying to get lost in the shuffle to me. But that raises the question of who is working with who?
The most obvious answer would be that Laurentus and Sapphiron are working together. Laurentus did make the first vote against Michi, and it also happens to be the vote that The Greenlandic North attached himself to on the next page. But it also seems kinda obvious and risky. If this held true and Michi was revealed as town, then at least 2 of the 4 wolves are under suspicion right out the gate.
Or it could be Michi and Dawsinian. What better way to get rid of someone than claiming self-defense? If Laurentus were voted off and revealed as town, many people probably wouldn't think anything of it cause he did make the first vote, and voting back is just retaliation, right? But again, that could still backfire, and you again have 2 of 4 wolves under suspicion so early in the game.
I think the more likely scenario at this point is that Laurentus and Michi are both town, Laurentus made his vote cause that's just what Laurentus does in Werewolf, and it's understandable that Michi would vote back. If they're both town, then what would it matter which one of them got voted off? Why pile everyone on one person right out the gate? If you divide it out, then you don't have a batch of wolves looking suspicious. So maybe Sapphiron and Dawsinian are working together here, a sort of divide and conquer strategy.
But I can only vote for one, so Vote: Sapphiron, because TGN piled on the same person as him in the beginning. I know TGN is a new player, but what if as a new player he thought he was supposed to vote for the same person his fellow wolf was voting for? He only changed his vote because he was coming under such heavy suspicion...he himself says he didn't want to be lynched when he changed it. It's not certain that he initially voted for Michi for that reason, but it's a possibility, which is all we kinda have on the first turn.
Highly speculative of course, but what more can you have on day 1?
@Wintermoot, could you easily program in a feature that lets people see how many posts each person participating in the game has made?I'm sure it can be done, I'll try to get something like that in during the game at some point, though it may not be immediately.
Sorry for being a bit late to join the game here. As Wischland said, you guys are a lot more vote-happy than we are in XKI. Usually, rather than a Random Voting Phase, we vote No Lynch for the first day, until we have some information for the fear of lynching a town. Seeing that, I am just going to wait and watch until some information presents itself.We used to do that too, but I think at one point people came to believe that having everyone automatically not lynch gave the wolves too much breathing room and allowed them to make the first move.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 07:29:39 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 07:34:37 PM
Okay, yeah, I've become really paranoid. This is Werewolf at its finest. I'm going to take a break and come back to look at everything again a bit later, because right now, everyone looks sus to me.Hey Lau, I apologize if this gives you a headache. :p
Vote: Dawsinian
Take it how you will. :3
Thank you for responding Gerrick, I see your rationale.
Out of everyone up there I feel most comfortable voting Daws. I don't really have a good reason, I think Gerrick's analysis is fair. I would rather he goes instead of the others.
Post by: Gerrick on December 09, 2020, 07:38:04 PM
Yes, but that's about Hapi. I mean the whole thing that's going on right now.Yeah, I'll admit that I skimmed over that back-and-forth between you and Vroendal since it didn't seem pertinent. Reading it back now, I can see what you mean, although I don't think Vro is going as hard in protecting Hapi as you're making it out to be -- perhaps reread that exchange. Vro just should have not said anything about not scanning Hapi this night phase because now there's a higher chance of a scan on her being blocked. There's a chance that it was because they're both wolves, but I think the likelihood of that is pretty low. Basically I think you're both misplacing your focus right now.
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 07:41:46 PM
Yeah, I'll admit that I skimmed over that back-and-forth between you and Vroendal since it didn't seem pertinent. Reading it back now, I can see what you mean, although I don't think Vro is going as hard in protecting Hapi as you're making it out to be -- perhaps reread that exchange. Vro just should have not said anything about not scanning Hapi this night phase because now there's a higher chance of a scan on her being blocked. There's a chance that it was because they're both wolves, but I think the likelihood of that is pretty low. Basically I think you're both misplacing your focus right now.Ey, let it be said that Lau was the one who brought up scanning her, I just disagreed.
Upon further consideration I also your point about at least one of the XKI players being a wolf very intriguing, I say we (in all kindness) grill them after the results of this vote.
Post by: Gerrick on December 09, 2020, 07:48:35 PM
Ey, let it be said that Lau was the one who brought up scanning her, I just disagreed.Ah, right you are there. Either way, the more you both talked about it, the less likely Hapi would be successfully scanned. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Upon further consideration I also your point about at least one of the XKI players being a wolf very intriguing, I say we (in all kindness) grill them after the results of this vote.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 07:54:53 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 07:55:33 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 09, 2020, 07:57:11 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 07:58:15 PM
Post by: Wischland on December 09, 2020, 08:00:30 PM
Besides Wischland's observations (prompted by Laurentus), the other XKIers are much too quiet for my liking, having not made any votes nor said much of any use. I'll chalk this up to being on a different region's forums and not being used to our way of playing. But chances are that one of them is a wolf -- and I'm gonna say more than likely that two are.Just to throw in a little context here, from my past experiences I've noticed Eastern New England is usually pretty quiet, so I don't see his lack of activity as very unusual. Flying Eagles and Wille-Harlia are usually a bit more chatty, so I do find that a touch more note-worthy. I've never played with HumanSanity, so I can't really offer any context with him. It is quite funky to see how different of a playing style you guys have here (normally our whole games take about 9-11 pages, and this game is already at 9 on the first day phase), so there is a pretty extreme cultural difference that I think we need to consider as well. All I can do is encourage my fellow Islanders to offer some more opinions before I try to make any hard judgements as to whether I find them suspicious or not.
Just wanted to throw that in there. I'll try to do a deep dive and explain my thoughts on everything else that's been happening a little later this evening after I get some RL work done. :))
Post by: Wischland on December 09, 2020, 08:01:46 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 08:02:36 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 09, 2020, 08:03:30 PM
Dawsinian - 3 (BraveSirRobin, Gerrick, Vroendal)
Michi - 2 (Laurentus, Sapphiron)
Laurentus - 2 (Michi, Dawsinian)
Hapi - 1 (Doc)
TGN - 1 (Turtle)
Doc - 1 (Hapi)
Sapphiron - 1 (Wintermoot)
Turtle - 1 (TGN)
Post by: Wischland on December 09, 2020, 08:04:28 PM
Vote: Dawsinian
I'll explain why in a sec...
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 08:04:42 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 09, 2020, 08:05:05 PM
I'll also give like 10 more minutes or so until EoD.
Post by: Red Mones on December 09, 2020, 08:05:37 PM
Michi - 2 (Laurentus, Sapphiron)
Laurentus - 2 (Michi, Dawsinian)
Hapi - 1 (Doc)
TGN - 1 (Turtle)
Doc - 1 (Hapi)
Sapphiron - 1 (Wintermoot)
Turtle - 1 (TGN)
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 08:06:44 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 08:07:08 PM
Damn, I think I've been outplayed.If Daws turns out wolf will your head explode? :p
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 08:08:22 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 08:09:14 PM
No, not exactly, but votes suddenly shifting this close to EoD, with so many vanity wagons, doesn't inspire confidence.I did not like Moot's vote at all. :/
I feel very very good about Wischland.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 08:10:30 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on December 09, 2020, 08:12:33 PM
Okay, yeah, I've become really paranoid. This is Werewolf at its finest. I'm going to take a break and come back to look at everything again a bit later, because right now, everyone looks sus to me.Werewolf: All Sus, No Trust. :P
I did not like Moot's vote at all. :/You feel very very good about someone voting the same way as you? That's shocking.
I feel very very good about Wischland.
Post by: Dawsinian on December 09, 2020, 08:21:07 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 09, 2020, 08:24:08 PM
The final vote count was:
Dawsinian - 4 (BraveSirRobin, Gerrick, Vroendal, Wischland)
Michi - 2 (Laurentus, Sapphiron)
Laurentus - 2 (Michi, Dawsinian)
Hapi - 1 (Doc)
TGN - 1 (Turtle)
Doc - 1 (Hapi)
Sapphiron - 1 (Wintermoot)
Turtle - 1 (TGN)
This is the end of Day 1, and the beginning of Night 1. Send me your night actions. Phase ends in 24 hours on Thursday, the 10th, at 12 PM PST.
Important note: I apologize for the confusion on the EoD time. I did say it would end roughly 72 hours, which would be around 9-ish tonight, however I did note the phase would be ending at 12 PM PST today. 12 PM my time is the best time for me to make phase updates, so I adjusted the first day phase so it would end right about now. To hopefully clear up any confusion in the future, phase changes will consistently happen at 12 PM PST. Again, I apologize for the confusion.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 08:26:24 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 08:26:42 PM
Wow, a lot has happened in the last day or so. :P
I wanted to wait to vote because I don't believe a wolf would draw undue attention to themselves in the first round. I think they're more likely to vote at some point, try to get lost in the shuffle, and let the villagers duke it out among themselves. However, a unique opportunity opened up for the wolves when Laurentus and Michi voted for each other...both are strong players, and both would be big losses for the villagers if they're on that side.
Them voting for each other isn't necessarily suspicious in and of itself on the first round, but then Dawsinian and Sapphiron in short order pile onto those votes with no good explanation and no reconsideration as 9 pages of thoughts and information piled up, even though they've both made other posts since then. Sounds a lot like trying to get lost in the shuffle to me. But that raises the question of who is working with who?
The most obvious answer would be that Laurentus and Sapphiron are working together. Laurentus did make the first vote against Michi, and it also happens to be the vote that The Greenlandic North attached himself to on the next page. But it also seems kinda obvious and risky. If this held true and Michi was revealed as town, then at least 2 of the 4 wolves are under suspicion right out the gate.
Or it could be Michi and Dawsinian. What better way to get rid of someone than claiming self-defense? If Laurentus were voted off and revealed as town, many people probably wouldn't think anything of it cause he did make the first vote, and voting back is just retaliation, right? But again, that could still backfire, and you again have 2 of 4 wolves under suspicion so early in the game.
I think the more likely scenario at this point is that Laurentus and Michi are both town, Laurentus made his vote cause that's just what Laurentus does in Werewolf, and it's understandable that Michi would vote back. If they're both town, then what would it matter which one of them got voted off? Why pile everyone on one person right out the gate? If you divide it out, then you don't have a batch of wolves looking suspicious. So maybe Sapphiron and Dawsinian are working together here, a sort of divide and conquer strategy.
But I can only vote for one, so Vote: Sapphiron, because TGN piled on the same person as him in the beginning. I know TGN is a new player, but what if as a new player he thought he was supposed to vote for the same person his fellow wolf was voting for? He only changed his vote because he was coming under such heavy suspicion...he himself says he didn't want to be lynched when he changed it. It's not certain that he initially voted for Michi for that reason, but it's a possibility, which is all we kinda have on the first turn.
Highly speculative of course, but what more can you have on day 1?
I'm sorry this is taking a while Lau, my response was all laid out but my log-in time expired before I posted. I didn't like the way it laid out the process, it just felt needlessly confusing to me (sorry Moot, I'm just struggling to read it). It assumes that the wolves are specifically working together, which is rather bold won'tcha say? But my biggest issue is the sus on TGN, it feels like beating a dead horse at this point to return to that topic, perhaps in an effort to further derail? I feel that Doc laid out a very clear analysis, why ignore it?I did not like Moot's vote at all. :/You feel very very good about someone voting the same way as you? That's shocking.
I feel very very good about Wischland.
It's language like "shocking" that also makes me feel iffy.
I'm just not feeling good about it Moot, whether you're a wolf or not. It's a very weird vote to just branch off, at least from my perspective.
Post by: Wischland on December 09, 2020, 08:26:59 PM
Ok so, super speedy and probably terrible explanation, but here we go anyway.
So the main reason I'm suspicious of Dawsinian is that they voted right at the start for arbitrary reasons then vanished. The vanishing even though a lot more material came up to debate is very strange to me, and indicates that they're possibly trying to avid attention. It's possible that they were trying to create a bandwagon on Lau by following up Michi's vote. Since Michi voted in response to Lau, I don't really see that as suspicious as what Dawsinian did.
While that normally wouldn't be the only thing for me to go off of, everyone else who I was suspicious of and would have considered voting for , I am no longer suspicious of enough to stick out my neck and vote for them. Hapi's references strike me as genuine, and my original critique of them making "fluff posts" is sorta invalidated by the fact that they very clearly had a purpose. So generally kinda meh reasoning, but hasty judgements needed to be made, so eh?
Post by: Wintermoot on December 09, 2020, 08:39:24 PM
I'm sorry this is taking a while Lau, my response was all laid out but my log-in time expired before I posted. I didn't like the way it laid out the process, it just felt needlessly confusing to me (sorry Moot, I'm just struggling to read it). It assumes that the wolves are specifically working together, which is rather bold won'tcha say? But my biggest issue is the sus on TGN, it feels like beating a dead horse at this point to return to that topic, perhaps in an effort to further derail? I feel that Doc laid out a very clear analysis, why ignore it?I try to describe my entire thought process in case it's relevant in a future round after I'm gone, since there's no guarantee any of us will be around the next day to elaborate. I think it's odd that you find that off after making a two-sentence post casting suspicion on me and praising someone else who had just voted the same way as you. It came off as random, and I don't know what the point of making such a post without justification was.
It's language like "shocking" that also makes me feel iffy.
I'm just not feeling good about it Moot, whether you're a wolf or not. It's a very weird vote to just branch off, at least from my perspective.
And of course the wolves are working together on some kind of strategy, even if they aren't voting for the same person. Has there ever been a game where they haven't?
Post by: Gerrick on December 09, 2020, 08:39:47 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 08:43:10 PM
I'm super wary of Wintermoot, and quite amusingly, worried that Vro and Moot could be attempting an epic distancing play here. His vote on a dead wagon (well, actually a wagon that didn't even exist until he created it) looks a lot like just placing a very low-risk vote.
Finally, and most amusingly of all, I think Pengu's town. Wolf Pengu doesn't make mistakes of a bussing nature, and would have handled my prodding a lot better. Wolf Pengu doesn't disappear when the going gets tough, either. Town Pengu, on the other hand, very much does.
I have no idea who a potential 4th scum would be, but I don't believe it's Wisch. Sending a Townie over the edge at the last second like that is Wolf suicide of the highest order, but his reasoning for the vote still doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 08:49:05 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on December 09, 2020, 08:51:55 PM
Post by: Wischland on December 09, 2020, 09:01:30 PM
I have no idea who a potential 4th scum would be, but I don't believe it's Wisch. Sending a Townie over the edge at the last second like that is Wolf suicide of the highest order, but his reasoning for the vote still doesn't make a lot of sense to me.Just a quick note here, it was a pretty hasty decision. I was hoping to do a close read of the entire thread and come up with my own theories and points, but that obviously didn't happen due to a timing mistake on my part. So I was pretty much just running off the arguments other people had made and, to a certain extent, bandwagoning. Nobody else who has been discussed/argued about really struck me as suspicious, so I just went for it. Hopefully I'll be able to make some more insightful judgements in the future when we have more information.
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 09:34:01 PM
I am also super confused about something. @Wintermoot, you voted for Sapph, did you not (this is according to Mone's tally closer to the end), and @Vroendal, you pretty much stuck your vote on Gerrick for the whole phase until you switched to Daws, did you not?That is correct. I voted Gerrick here because at that point I just wanted him to talk and explain himself.
If only to ask "what's up?", Vote: GerrickI then switched to Daws because I considered him the most probable option of those likely to be lynched to be a wolf after Gerrick presented his case. I have played my part as town badly, and for that I apologize. To me, all the people talking the most have said nothing particularly suspicious, so my guess, as it had been before I derailed myself, is that the wolves lie among the lurkers.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 09:38:20 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 09:39:24 PM
Okay, then. @Wintermoot, you stated here (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg153926#msg153926) that Vro voted the same way as you did, when he really did not, and @Vroendal, you never corrected this, even as Moot repeated this strange stance later. What gives with both of you?I assume that he was talking about Wischland, no?
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 09:40:39 PM
I'm confused, please elaborate.Okay, then. @Wintermoot, you stated here (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg153926#msg153926) that Vro voted the same way as you did, when he really did not, and @Vroendal, you never corrected this, even as Moot repeated this strange stance later. What gives with both of you?I assume that he was talking about Wischland, no?
Post by: Wintermoot on December 09, 2020, 09:41:23 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 09, 2020, 09:42:30 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 09:43:20 PM
Okay, I'm out. It's late and I'm not seeing things clearly anymore.
Post by: Laurentus on December 09, 2020, 09:46:32 PM
Post by: Wille-Harlia on December 09, 2020, 10:38:15 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 09, 2020, 11:09:48 PM
None knows what the new day shall bring him.
Maybe Doc was right and killing me is the safe play but my sword still stands with you. I don't have much to say it seems like a civil war within the fellowship. Were I Sauron I'd revel in the town vs town.
I do think Pengu is a member of the fellowship. His defensive nature here doesn't strike me too dissimilar to how I've seen him play before as town when accused for seemingly nothing.
I'm mildly wary of Lau. He takes over games and I'm aware enough of his play to know that he can NEVER be trusted even if your on his side. Usually he'd try to push his target to death no matter what and he did that to a point but not what I'm used to seeing but right now he's too stronk an asset for me to commit too.
I think a lot of what we saw was town vs town but I hate trying to read day 1 plays.
I'm sus on Wintermoot, Vro and Gerrick most of all based on how yesterday played out.
Vro's defense of me isn't that weird because I think Vro really easily has the best knowledge of my playstyle.
I'll leave you with this
An hour of wolves and shatterd shields when the age of men comes crashing down may one day come, but it is not this day, this day WE FIGHT!
Post by: Wintermoot on December 10, 2020, 06:49:23 AM
According to the data I just put together (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6956.0), the median number of posts in a Wintreath Werewolf game is 209, yet we have 171 right now just from the first day! It's already looking to me like this will probably end up in the top 5 most active games. :)
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 06:59:10 AM
My reputation proceeds me around here but to those who have never played with me I'm sure I seem rather sus.
None knows what the new day shall bring him.
Maybe Doc was right and killing me is the safe play but my sword still stands with you. I don't have much to say it seems like a civil war within the fellowship. Were I Sauron I'd revel in the town vs town.
I do think Pengu is a member of the fellowship. His defensive nature here doesn't strike me too dissimilar to how I've seen him play before as town when accused for seemingly nothing.
I'm mildly wary of Lau. He takes over games and I'm aware enough of his play to know that he can NEVER be trusted even if your on his side. Usually he'd try to push his target to death no matter what and he did that to a point but not what I'm used to seeing but right now he's too stronk an asset for me to commit too.
I think a lot of what we saw was town vs town but I hate trying to read day 1 plays.
I'm sus on Wintermoot, Vro and Gerrick most of all based on how yesterday played out.
Vro's defense of me isn't that weird because I think Vro really easily has the best knowledge of my playstyle.
I'll leave you with this
An hour of wolves and shatterd shields when the age of men comes crashing down may one day come, but it is not this day, this day WE FIGHT!
Why are you sus on Moot, Vro and Gerrick?
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 07:02:26 AM
It looks like this is going to be a very active game. :DSo... what I'm hearing is that me and Lau need to argue more. ;)
According to the data I just put together (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6956.0), the median number of posts in a Wintreath Werewolf game is 209, yet we have 171 right now just from the first day! It's already looking to me like this will probably end up in the top 5 most active games. :)
Seriously though, I am very happy hearing that. :D
However, it makes it all the more noticeable that despite the high activity level, there are some who've been rather silent. I would like to hear from @HumanSanity on your thoughts. :) Also, I am eagerly awaiting the inevitable post from Doc about everything.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 07:29:05 AM
My reputation proceeds me around here but to those who have never played with me I'm sure I seem rather sus.
None knows what the new day shall bring him.
Maybe Doc was right and killing me is the safe play but my sword still stands with you. I don't have much to say it seems like a civil war within the fellowship. Were I Sauron I'd revel in the town vs town.
I do think Pengu is a member of the fellowship. His defensive nature here doesn't strike me too dissimilar to how I've seen him play before as town when accused for seemingly nothing.
I'm mildly wary of Lau. He takes over games and I'm aware enough of his play to know that he can NEVER be trusted even if your on his side. Usually he'd try to push his target to death no matter what and he did that to a point but not what I'm used to seeing but right now he's too stronk an asset for me to commit too.
I think a lot of what we saw was town vs town but I hate trying to read day 1 plays.
I'm sus on Wintermoot, Vro and Gerrick most of all based on how yesterday played out.
Vro's defense of me isn't that weird because I think Vro really easily has the best knowledge of my playstyle.
I'll leave you with this
An hour of wolves and shatterd shields when the age of men comes crashing down may one day come, but it is not this day, this day WE FIGHT!
Why are you sus on Moot, Vro and Gerrick?
Vote shenanigans and their reasoning for it. But again I hate reading day 1
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 07:30:07 AM
Post by: Red Mones on December 10, 2020, 08:07:40 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 10:32:47 AM
As I say literally every game, I'm gonna vote for someone on Day 1 no matter what. Votes are the most efficient reaction tests and so the best way to get leads on wolves. And so my first votes on D1 are usually random with a joke reasoning.
And I am in general terrible at reading people in Werewolf. I'm better at noticing trends in actions/votes rather than what my gut says. This puts me at a disadvantage in the beginning, but regardless, I'll give my thoughts so far.
I'm particularly terrible at reading Laurentus, but I will always think it's better for him to be in the game than not as he drives activity, which (whether intentional or not) tends to cause the wolves to show themselves. He's admitted to not being a good wolf, so if anything he's a liability to them and an asset to us -- better to keep him on.
Vroendal is the second most active person this game, which doesn't seem the norm for him, although from what I remember he does tend to be rather active. I'm tending to agree with him about Hapi here. Her "hints" seem to be heavier than usual, but they seem to be hints nonetheless, which is making me lean towards town with her (keyword: lean).
Michi is slightly leaning wolf with his accusations against The Greenlandic North, who is obviously very green (see what I did there? :P). And then has disappeared since then.
Doc is a little quiet, which is slightly concerning, but it's still too early for that to mean much. Plus, others are driving discussions, so he doesn't really need to.
Besides Wischland's observations (prompted by Laurentus), the other XKIers are much too quiet for my liking, having not made any votes nor said much of any use. I'll chalk this up to being on a different region's forums and not being used to our way of playing. But chances are that one of them is a wolf -- and I'm gonna say more than likely that two are.
Nobody else has done enough to make me think one way or the other, although Ogunbiyi is the only non-new Wintreanr who has not voted, which is casting suspicion on him in my eyes.
Laurentus is currently tied with Michi right now. Seeing as how I'd rather he not be killed off just yet (explained above), I'll change my vote to help offset that. I could change it to either Dawsinian, Hapi, Doc, or TGN to give them a three-way tie or to Michi to put him in the majority... I don't find Michi suspicious enough to go out on a limb to do that, so I suppose I'll change my vote to the one of the four I find most suspicious (mostly because he has made posts but nothing of real use).
Change Vote: Dawsinian
Honestly I find this most sus of all. Gerrick changed his vote so as not to push either of Michi or Lau over the edge which started the EoD wagon on Daws a player chosen for essentially being too quiet in a game full of players who are quiet. It seems sus to me what seems more sus is that Gerrick called out Doc for being too quiet didn't even mention Daws in the analysis post than voted Daws and didn't back off that vote when the wagon started and I see zero reason why Daws was suspicious anymore or less than any of the other quieter players in this game.
Okay, yeah, I've become really paranoid. This is Werewolf at its finest. I'm going to take a break and come back to look at everything again a bit later, because right now, everyone looks sus to me.Hey Lau, I apologize if this gives you a headache. :p
Vote: Dawsinian
Take it how you will. :3
Thank you for responding Gerrick, I see your rationale.
Out of everyone up there I feel most comfortable voting Daws. I don't really have a good reason, I think Gerrick's analysis is fair. I would rather he goes instead of the others.
This is sus to me because a last second flip that helped seal Daws fate using Gerricks reason as the basis when I don't see Gerricks reasoning as anything less than flimsy at best.
Wow, a lot has happened in the last day or so. :P
I wanted to wait to vote because I don't believe a wolf would draw undue attention to themselves in the first round. I think they're more likely to vote at some point, try to get lost in the shuffle, and let the villagers duke it out among themselves. However, a unique opportunity opened up for the wolves when Laurentus and Michi voted for each other...both are strong players, and both would be big losses for the villagers if they're on that side.
Them voting for each other isn't necessarily suspicious in and of itself on the first round, but then Dawsinian and Sapphiron in short order pile onto those votes with no good explanation and no reconsideration as 9 pages of thoughts and information piled up, even though they've both made other posts since then. Sounds a lot like trying to get lost in the shuffle to me. But that raises the question of who is working with who?
The most obvious answer would be that Laurentus and Sapphiron are working together. Laurentus did make the first vote against Michi, and it also happens to be the vote that The Greenlandic North attached himself to on the next page. But it also seems kinda obvious and risky. If this held true and Michi was revealed as town, then at least 2 of the 4 wolves are under suspicion right out the gate.
Or it could be Michi and Dawsinian. What better way to get rid of someone than claiming self-defense? If Laurentus were voted off and revealed as town, many people probably wouldn't think anything of it cause he did make the first vote, and voting back is just retaliation, right? But again, that could still backfire, and you again have 2 of 4 wolves under suspicion so early in the game.
I think the more likely scenario at this point is that Laurentus and Michi are both town, Laurentus made his vote cause that's just what Laurentus does in Werewolf, and it's understandable that Michi would vote back. If they're both town, then what would it matter which one of them got voted off? Why pile everyone on one person right out the gate? If you divide it out, then you don't have a batch of wolves looking suspicious. So maybe Sapphiron and Dawsinian are working together here, a sort of divide and conquer strategy.
But I can only vote for one, so Vote: Sapphiron, because TGN piled on the same person as him in the beginning. I know TGN is a new player, but what if as a new player he thought he was supposed to vote for the same person his fellow wolf was voting for? He only changed his vote because he was coming under such heavy suspicion...he himself says he didn't want to be lynched when he changed it. It's not certain that he initially voted for Michi for that reason, but it's a possibility, which is all we kinda have on the first turn.
Highly speculative of course, but what more can you have on day 1?@Wintermoot, could you easily program in a feature that lets people see how many posts each person participating in the game has made?I'm sure it can be done, I'll try to get something like that in during the game at some point, though it may not be immediately.Sorry for being a bit late to join the game here. As Wischland said, you guys are a lot more vote-happy than we are in XKI. Usually, rather than a Random Voting Phase, we vote No Lynch for the first day, until we have some information for the fear of lynching a town. Seeing that, I am just going to wait and watch until some information presents itself.We used to do that too, but I think at one point people came to believe that having everyone automatically not lynch gave the wolves too much breathing room and allowed them to make the first move.
This just sounds like a lot of mumbo jumbo to me. But *shrugs* I'm less suspicious of Moot and most suspicious of Gerrick here.
I do not know what strength is in my blood, but I swear to you I will not let the White City fall, nor our people fail.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 10:33:53 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 10:34:52 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 11:04:09 AM
Post by: Michi on December 10, 2020, 11:07:12 AM
Gimme a sec and I'll have more to say.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 10, 2020, 11:14:14 AM
In fact I can understand to a certain extent why there’s a sudden train of votes against Daw, which from my perspective is attributable from piling votes without explanation.
Post by: Michi on December 10, 2020, 12:14:31 PM
I'm iffy about giving Hapi an all clear on her status because she made quotes and potentially alluded a role. She could be hinting she's Aragorn (which if that's the case would be considered hinting your role and would technically be against the rules), she could just be doing a usual Hapi thing and spouting quotes. Likewise, she could also be pulling something we've seen experienced players do in past games where they'll exhibit a tell that would normally make us thing "Oh, they're a townie" but exploiting that as a werewolf to manipulate our way of thinking.
Either way, I'm not completely against the idea of having her scanned and knowing for sure since night action hints are allowed, and we all know how well some players can work with that.
Likewise, the fact that the bandwagon on Daws came literally the fuck out of nowhere and built up in the short time it did makes me think at least one of those on the wagon is a wolf. Who? I don't entirely know, but I will say Vro's explanation of "Take it as you will" just wasn't doing it for me.
I'm almost 90% sure one or more of our XKI friends is going to be a wolf. You don't just have 5 people from a region that also plays the game religiously pop over and not have at least one be on the side of the bad guys. Which of them it'd be, I'm still sitting back and figuring out, but that's where I stand with that.
As for the players in general, Laurentus, TNG, and Wischland are my current town reads. The bickering between Laurentus and I feels pretty par for the course as his townie plays since we generally tend to have clashing playstyles regardless of what my alignment is. TNG, I tend to go hard on new players because I'm used to certain tells from past games where someone has generally acted oblivious in some form and turned out to a wolf. However, I'm willing to give him the derp clear for now because he's a new player and probably really doesn't know the game well. Likewise, Wischland has made some logical cases for himself to where he's either a really good werewolf, or more likely he's a townie (but I wouldn't be surprised if he suddenly popped out in a werewolf costume either).
Hapi I'm pretty iffy about since the hints technically do go against the "no hints about your role" thing. However, we do have players here that love throwing out quotes to material they're familiar with at random moments eyes Laurentus, so it could also be that.
However, as I've said before in at least one past game, I'm also on board with the idea of someone manipulating tells to throw us off. It's completely not unheard of for a player to know what actions they do that make people go "Yeah, they're definitely town." and then use that as a wolf to put themselves in an early clear. While not being in a lot of games, Hapi's last 2 were pretty intense games...one being the two version of Portal where there were experienced MU players in attendance, and the other being the Summersend game that ended up being quite an entertaining spectacle (not the least of which is because the theme was literally trees versus lumberjacks).
Vro, I'm still a bit unsure about, but I'm leaning more scum with him. As I mentioned, the whole "Take it as you will" random vote for Daws (or it at least felt a bit random) threw me off a bit, and I don't know how to feel about that. Gerrick at least provided reasoning for it (he was adding to the tie-game), and the Vro came out of nowhere with an added vote, coincidentally pushing it to a 3-2-2-1-1-1-1-1 with basically no explanation at the time instead of padding out another singular vote for a bigger tie. And then him throwing out names at the time with no explanation after being the one to break the tie with his no reasoning just really rubbed me the wrong way like he was trying to set up the next two candidates for us to argue over in the next phase.
Gerrick, I'm pretty much on the fence overall. Yeah, his vote on Daws kinda just appeared and on the surface was to keep the tie, but BSR also just randomly voted for Daws because RNG. But for both of them this is also pretty normal behavior as well for a day 1 play, so I'm not entirely convinced there was anything nefarious.
Everyone else really didn't catch my attention much when perusing the thread, so I really don't have a good read...especially on the inactive ones, even though Dawcreek has been pretty lurky and not active on the forums since the 28th, and I know he was stressing hardcore with Spyfall...so it wouldn't entirely surprise me if it was channeling itself here too.
As for my own popping in and out, I've been trying to keep myself pretty busy with Rona seeming like it wants to continually dash any of my plans to have a life offline. So I've been immersing myself more in region work and outer-region stuff, as well as giving my own server a complete facelift and starting that over, which Hapi can vouch for that one. I joined this game because I want to support Mone's first game as Thane (and overall, really), and I'll really try to be more active, but I also have a few other plates I'm juggling as well to keep from going stir crazy from being inside pretty much all the time.
Post by: Michi on December 10, 2020, 12:20:41 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 12:48:52 PM
(https://i.gifer.com/PqkV.gif)
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 01:12:13 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 01:12:26 PM
Post by: Doc on December 10, 2020, 03:32:24 PM
What I'm getting the sense of is a pretty big town-eat-town dogpile here, and what that tells me is that rather than drilling down on the two people driving most of the activity (and who seem to also be trying to eat each other, i.e. Lau and Vro), we're going to be much better suited to focusing in on people on the periphery who can be looking to drive a mislynch or two in the coming days off of this heat. That, to me, says Michi, Hapi, and Gerrick for the moment.
There's a lot of silence from a lot of corners, but I'm guessing that's 1 part inexperience for some, 1 part culture shock for others, and about 10 parts 'oh my god there's so many posts' information-overload-driven avoidance in the remainder. That said, I'd like to hear more from Moot and BSR, and I'd especially like to hear more from our other TKI guests; Wischland has been putting in work and giving out valuable insights, but I'm always suspicious of the distinct possibility that they're the TKI wolf (or one of them? but 5/20 is 1/4 and that's as good an assumption to make as any right now), and using poison-pill half-truths to keep all of us going 'mm yes that's correct' and lead us in self-eating Ouroboros circles. No actual suspicion yet, but I'd really like to hear any TKIer be able to back up what they have to say.
Turtle and TGN I'd also like to hear more from; they're new to our games of Werewolf, but Turtle at least I have some vague sort of sense of from Among Us that one time.
Right now, the only person I'm reasonably convinced about being town (instead of just town-leaning, which is where I think TGN, Lau and Vro all fit) is Sapphiron. His reasoning holds up for me, probably mostly because if I'd been around to change up my vote I'd likely have done much the same thing - try and push for a tie and let RNGesus swing the axe.
Okay, so I am noticing something, but I don't know if it's safe to talk about. Doc, is what I think might be happening, actually happening? (If you are confused by this, then probably not).I'm confused by this.
Unless what you were implying might be happening was what I said above, in which case, uh, no, not confused at all, I totally knew what you were talking about the whole time, totally, for sure.
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 03:54:50 PM
Why is Sapph town for you?
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 04:05:48 PM
Laurentus is currently tied with Michi right now. Seeing as how I'd rather he not be killed off just yet (explained above), I'll change my vote to help offset that. I could change it to either Dawsinian, Hapi, Doc, or TGN to give them a three-way tie or to Michi to put him in the majority... I don't find Michi suspicious enough to go out on a limb to do that, so I suppose I'll change my vote to the one of the four I find most suspicious (mostly because he has made posts but nothing of real use).When I called his analysis fair I was talking about this bit ^. At that point the "main" wagons were still Lau and Michi, Lau is just acting too similar to the last game we played where he was town and hammering me in the way I expected him to that there was no way I was letting him get lynched D1. As for Michi, I just wasn't completely reading scum in his posts, and I myself had noticed he was less active which didn't coincide with the game I played as WW with him. I may be taking time to reconsider but as it stood I wasn't feeling like lynching him either. When a new wgon appeared tying all three, the player I felt least convinced about was Daws. I don't think I'm in the least popular opinion to say that of those three Daws was the best choice to lynch. It would have taken off Lau specifically and Michi as an option and would have given me information if nothing else, possibly lynching a lurking wolf. That sounded like the best odds to me.
Change Vote: Dawsinian
My "take it as you will" and my later unadvised comments about what I thought about Moot and Wisch were unfortunately motivated from adrenaline from the constant sparring with Lau over the day, I was a bit annoyed with him at that point and wasn't feeling in the particular charitable mood to do him any favors in what I said, and Moot's post just rubbed me wrong. I must mention that I'm not placing any value on Wisch for voting with me, I just liked their logic and the way their posts have been reading so far, it's been making me feel good.
Oviously there are a lot of posts both of my own and of others that I need to review.
Post by: Gerrick on December 10, 2020, 04:09:26 PM
What if I had changed my vote to somebody else, and then Dawsinian was town? I'm now sus since it looks like I knew he was town and I didn't want to be a nail in his coffin to make me look innocent.
What if I had changed my vote to somebody else, and then Dawsinian was scum? I'm now sus since it looks like I didn't want to accidentally kill a fellow wolf.
Damned if I do, damned if I don't. That's why I don't change votes if others decide to make them into bandwagons.
Besides, why would I be more suspicious than Vro who made my vote a majority?
Doesn't make sense.
Post by: Red Mones on December 10, 2020, 04:12:41 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 04:59:43 PM
Wait a minute, I'm sus because I changed my vote to balance out a three way tie and then not changing it when somebody made my vote a majority?
What if I had changed my vote to somebody else, and then Dawsinian was town? I'm now sus since it looks like I knew he was town and I didn't want to be a nail in his coffin to make me look innocent.
What if I had changed my vote to somebody else, and then Dawsinian was scum? I'm now sus since it looks like I didn't want to accidentally kill a fellow wolf.
Damned if I do, damned if I don't. That's why I don't change votes if others decide to make them into bandwagons.
Besides, why would I be more suspicious than Vro who made my vote a majority?
Doesn't make sense.
What is your reads list?
Post by: Red Mones on December 10, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on December 10, 2020, 05:38:51 PM
I am not sure why Moot came up with a huge load of hypotheticals and speculations before voting for me, when the only evident reason why I would vote Pengu was that I would rather there be a tie, than a bandwagon against Lau that came from random voting.It's the first day, my "load of hypotheticals and speculations" are no different than anyone else's.
In fact I can understand to a certain extent why there’s a sudden train of votes against Daw, which from my perspective is attributable from piling votes without explanation.
If your primary interest was in maintaining a tie, why didn't you change your vote when TGN also voted for Michi?
That said, I'd like to hear more from Moot and BSRWas there something specific you wanted to hear about? I thought I had summarized my thought process when I voted. As I said at the time, it's highly speculative, but no more than anyone else's votes...I'm honestly puzzled why people think my post was "mumbo jumbo" and such. I thought I listed some reasonable possibilities with what little we have to go on at this point.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 10, 2020, 05:43:27 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on December 10, 2020, 05:54:04 PM
This is going to sound convenient but at that time I was quite busy with RL commitments which I emphasised during sign ups that I only afforded a 1 sentence reply to a direct ping for my response by Vro then. After which when I finally properly paid attention to the thread, TGN has already changed his vote.It could be that despite posting in the topic as you admit you were too busy to keep track of the votes, or it could be that you were laying low after making your vote in order to get lost in the shuffle as others duked it out among themselves as I suggested when I voted for you. I suppose people will have to decide for themselves. For me personally, your actions matched what I expected from a wolf, and that's specifically why I waited to make my vote...to see who would cast their votes early and then disappear from the discussion.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 05:55:42 PM
@Princess Hapi do you want me to edit that long post and fix the quotes?
Yeah if you wouldn't mind ^^
Post by: TGN on December 10, 2020, 06:18:22 PM
Post by: HumanSanity on December 10, 2020, 07:56:37 PM
I would like to hear from @HumanSanity on your thoughts. :) Also, I am eagerly awaiting the inevitable post from Doc about everything.I want to apologize for being in and out here. There's a lot here and I've been busy with other NS and RL projects ... I'll make an effort to catch up shortly
Post by: Red Mones on December 10, 2020, 08:08:02 PM
Theoden (Dawsinian) was resurrected during the night.
This is the end of Night 1, and the beginning of Day 2. Phase ends in roughly 48 hours on Saturday, the 13th, at 12 PM PST.
Post by: Gerrick on December 10, 2020, 08:13:22 PM
What is your reads list?I'm currently at work, so I really can't write out a whole thing.
But one change I will note from my last read list is that Vro has started to lean towards scum for me. Also not completely counting out Wischland like everyone else.
Red just posted the results as I was typing... Wow we got lucky with that one. Also, what role could possibly resurrect people?
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 08:22:24 PM
I'm super wary of Wintermoot, and quite amusingly, worried that Vro and Moot could be attempting an epic distancing play here. His vote on a dead wagon (well, actually a wagon that didn't even exist until he created it) looks a lot like just placing a very low-risk vote.
Finally, and most amusingly of all, I think Pengu's town. Wolf Pengu doesn't make mistakes of a bussing nature, and would have handled my prodding a lot better. Wolf Pengu doesn't disappear when the going gets tough, either. Town Pengu, on the other hand, very much does.
I have no idea who a potential 4th scum would be, but I don't believe it's Wisch. Sending a Townie over the edge at the last second like that is Wolf suicide of the highest order, but his reasoning for the vote still doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I see I should explain myself better. I had voted for Gerrick specifically to get him to talk more and explain himself for his first vote. No one else saw the need or validity to vote for him, so my vote was basically a useless vote at that point for someone who had answered what I wanted them to.
When I called his analysis fair I was talking about this bit ^. At that point the "main" wagons were still Lau and Michi, Lau is just acting too similar to the last game we played where he was town and hammering me in the way I expected him to that there was no way I was letting him get lynched D1. As for Michi, I just wasn't completely reading scum in his posts, and I myself had noticed he was less active which didn't coincide with the game I played as WW with him. I may be taking time to reconsider but as it stood I wasn't feeling like lynching him either. When a new wagon appeared tying all three, the player I felt least convinced about was Daws. I don't think I'm in the least popular opinion to say that of those three Daws was the best choice to lynch. It would have taken off Lau specifically and Michi as an option and would have given me information if nothing else, possibly lynching a lurking wolf. That sounded like the best odds to me.
First of all, welcome back Daws. :) I understand that you may be suspicious of me, but I hope you can see the reasoning behind my vote.
Laurentus, the more I think about this, the more I think I have things backwards. You're sussing me, when really I think I should be sussing you, or at least asking you to explain YOUR vote.
When three wagons were up at the same time, why did you stick with Michi? According to you yourself, you were town-leaning Michi, which you said not half an hour after the result was announced, surely you had been thinking that Michi was not the person to go for at least for a while in the back of your mind, knowing you. So what I'm confused about is why DIDN'T you vote Daws? If you think Michi is town, and it is obvious one of you three is going to be lynched, why didn't you go for the player you were least sure of?
Tbh this is making me feel that you and Michi could be going for some sort of play, it would be quite within your capabilities. I wouldn't put it past you to "randomly" vote for a fellow wolf because they had irl obligations to confirm yourself more as town.
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but still I feel I should at least ask. I feel I've explained my vote enough.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 10, 2020, 08:27:26 PM
No one was killed during the night.
Theoden (Dawsinian) was resurrected during the night.
This is the end of Night 1, and the beginning of Day 2. Phase ends in roughly 48 hours on Sunday, the 13th, at 12 PM PST.
48 hours and Sunday are contradictory. Can you clarify which one it is?
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 08:31:03 PM
This is going to sound convenient but at that time I was quite busy with RL commitments which I emphasised during sign ups that I only afforded a 1 sentence reply to a direct ping for my response by Vro then. After which when I finally properly paid attention to the thread, TGN has already changed his vote.It could be that despite posting in the topic as you admit you were too busy to keep track of the votes, or it could be that you were laying low after making your vote in order to get lost in the shuffle as others duked it out among themselves as I suggested when I voted for you. I suppose people will have to decide for themselves. For me personally, your actions matched what I expected from a wolf, and that's specifically why I waited to make my vote...to see who would cast their votes early and then disappear from the discussion.
No, I can vouch for Sapph here. The RL commitment is real. He spoke to me about it on Discord, and caused no small amount of stress.
That said, this is Sapph, so interrogate away, but I thought I'd mention that.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 10, 2020, 08:41:36 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 08:45:09 PM
Obviously, if the resuscitator and Dawsinian were both wolves, I could see why Dawsinian would get resuscitated. But for a townie resuscitator to go against the vote of the town and resuscitate Dawsinian. That seems somewhat less likely.I have no idea what you mean by this... First of all, we definitely know that Daws was a town, idk why you would bring up if he was a wolf. Secondly, town doesn't ever MEAN to kill a fellow town, why wouldn't a town resuscitate a town, and a sufficiently useful role at that? Also, it's bold of you to assume that I'm not a wolf, why did you say that it's the "vote of the town"?
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 08:49:09 PM
I'm super wary of Wintermoot, and quite amusingly, worried that Vro and Moot could be attempting an epic distancing play here. His vote on a dead wagon (well, actually a wagon that didn't even exist until he created it) looks a lot like just placing a very low-risk vote.
Finally, and most amusingly of all, I think Pengu's town. Wolf Pengu doesn't make mistakes of a bussing nature, and would have handled my prodding a lot better. Wolf Pengu doesn't disappear when the going gets tough, either. Town Pengu, on the other hand, very much does.
I have no idea who a potential 4th scum would be, but I don't believe it's Wisch. Sending a Townie over the edge at the last second like that is Wolf suicide of the highest order, but his reasoning for the vote still doesn't make a lot of sense to me.I see I should explain myself better. I had voted for Gerrick specifically to get him to talk more and explain himself for his first vote. No one else saw the need or validity to vote for him, so my vote was basically a useless vote at that point for someone who had answered what I wanted them to.
When I called his analysis fair I was talking about this bit ^. At that point the "main" wagons were still Lau and Michi, Lau is just acting too similar to the last game we played where he was town and hammering me in the way I expected him to that there was no way I was letting him get lynched D1. As for Michi, I just wasn't completely reading scum in his posts, and I myself had noticed he was less active which didn't coincide with the game I played as WW with him. I may be taking time to reconsider but as it stood I wasn't feeling like lynching him either. When a new wagon appeared tying all three, the player I felt least convinced about was Daws. I don't think I'm in the least popular opinion to say that of those three Daws was the best choice to lynch. It would have taken off Lau specifically and Michi as an option and would have given me information if nothing else, possibly lynching a lurking wolf. That sounded like the best odds to me.
First of all, welcome back Daws. :) I understand that you may be suspicious of me, but I hope you can see the reasoning behind my vote.
Laurentus, the more I think about this, the more I think I have things backwards. You're sussing me, when really I think I should be sussing you, or at least asking you to explain YOUR vote.
When three wagons were up at the same time, why did you stick with Michi? According to you yourself, you were town-leaning Michi, which you said not half an hour after the result was announced, surely you had been thinking that Michi was not the person to go for at least for a while in the back of your mind, knowing you. So what I'm confused about is why DIDN'T you vote Daws? If you think Michi is town, and it is obvious one of you three is going to be lynched, why didn't you go for the player you were least sure of?
Tbh this is making me feel that you and Michi could be going for some sort of play, it would be quite within your capabilities. I wouldn't put it past you to "randomly" vote for a fellow wolf because they had irl obligations to confirm yourself more as town.
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but still I feel I should at least ask. I feel I've explained my vote enough.
Okay, so now that I've made it through the night phase, I'm ready to start playing this game in earnest.
You have been gunning for me like a madman the whole damn day phase, and I am not going to put up with it again.
As to your question, I weighed things in my heart about Michi, and came to that conclusion after seeing the last-minute switcharoo you did.
I am pretty sure I have a significant portion of this game figured out.
Daws, you have been given an amazing gift, and it is now the town's job to keep you alive and well, because you are that rarest of beasts: someone we can mechanically clear as lock-town. You will never have to worry about being suspected again, and as such, yours is the only perspective that we know comes from Town.
We need to start building a town core, and mine is as follows:
1. Daws at the head
2. Gerrick. Might seem like an odd choice, but well, I have reasons.
3. BSR. Also for reasons.
Come out, wolfies. I dare you to try and case this.
Now for my vote: Vroendal. You have had goddamned awful reasoning literally from the moment you started casing me, and you have not improved.
Additionally, your vote for Daws came literally out of nowhere, and you tried to inspire as much paranoia as you possibly could at the end of the phase, while failing to provide substantive reasoning for your sudden suspicion on Wintermoot. You, sir, are an opportunist and anarchist, and I'm not going to put up with it again.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 10, 2020, 08:51:00 PM
Didn’t realize the colour revealed the alignment.Obviously, if the resuscitator and Dawsinian were both wolves, I could see why Dawsinian would get resuscitated. But for a townie resuscitator to go against the vote of the town and resuscitate Dawsinian. That seems somewhat less likely.I have no idea what you mean by this... First of all, we definitely know that Daws was a town, idk why you would bring up if he was a wolf. Secondly, town doesn't ever MEAN to kill a fellow town, why wouldn't a town resuscitate a town, and a sufficiently useful role at that? Also, it's bold of you to assume that I'm not a wolf, why did you say that it's the "vote of the town"?
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 09:04:40 PM
I want everyone to make a reads list, and it should be constructed as follows:
1. Lock-town at the top. Lock-town, for those unfamiliar with the term, refers to someone you can mechanically clear as Town. These are the Townies who will never be in anyone's PoE (or Process of Elimination) ever, either because a confirmed Seer has declared them as such, or some other game mechanic, like a resurrection, has brought back a confirmed dead Townie.
2. Town core. These are the people you have the most overwhelming Townie vibes for, either because of really good votes that led to scum dying, or the Towniest thought process in the game.
3. Town-leans. These are the people you've either gut-read, or have found some plausible evidence for, but people who are not quite as cut-and-dried as the Town core.
4. Nulls. All the people which you don't have enough info for yet, to make a determination about whether they are part of either alignment.
5. Scum-leans. Like Town-leans, but acummier.
6. Just good old fashioned, rotten-to-the-core scum. These are the people with the scummiest motivations and actions, such as voting patterns. They are the scum equivalent of the Town core.
7. Lock-scum. People mechanically revealed as being scum. The people you just throw onto the pyre and forget about.
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 09:10:41 PM
Okay, so now that I've made it through the night phase, I'm ready to start playing this game in earnest.Alright Lau, that didn't come as a surprise but still, ouchie.
You have been gunning for me like a madman the whole damn day phase, and I am not going to put up with it again.
As to your question, I weighed things in my heart about Michi, and came to that conclusion after seeing the last-minute switcharoo you did.
I am pretty sure I have a significant portion of this game figured out.
Daws, you have been given an amazing gift, and it is now the town's job to keep you alive and well, because you are that rarest of beasts: someone we can mechanically clear as lock-town. You will never have to worry about being suspected again, and as such, yours is the only perspective that we know comes from Town.
We need to start building a town core, and mine is as follows:
1. Daws at the head
2. Gerrick. Might seem like an odd choice, but well, I have reasons.
3. BSR. Also for reasons.
Come out, wolfies. I dare you to try and case this.
Now for my vote: Vroendal. You have had goddamned awful reasoning literally from the moment you started casing me, and you have not improved.
Additionally, your vote for Daws came literally out of nowhere, and you tried to inspire as much paranoia as you possibly could at the end of the phase, while failing to provide substantive reasoning for your sudden suspicion on Wintermoot. You, sir, are an opportunist and anarchist, and I'm not going to put up with it again.
On the contrary, the only part where I "gunned" for you was when you talked about Hapi being scanned, and when I brought up that your position as a town leader was one to be wary of, never ONCE did I accuse you or bring up specifically that you have a very likely possibility of BEING a wolf in this game until just now. I've said I've town-read you basically the whole game. I on the other hand have been defending myself from your dogged inquiries, if anyone can be said to be gunning the most, I'd say it's you. Were they justified inquiries? Yes, they were. I can admit that I've been a bad player, and my reasoning has been flawed. I'm still learning, and I'll take this game as experience to heart.
As for Michi, to be honest I find your claim about weighing things only after a little doubtful, especially when it came so soon after the results. Can I really believe that you genuinely didn't consider anything like that? Mayeb not. As for your reads, I don't have anything to say about them, except to ask where would you place yourself in this "town core"?
Your vote comes as no surprise, frankly I deserve it. However, I would say that my latest post has nothing wrong with it logically or as a possibility, I don't see why it should specifically break the camels back as it were. Did I push for you as a WW last game? Sure. I think I've had better reasoning this game around though ngl.
I've explained my reasoning as to Daws crystal-clear, the way in which it "came out of nowhere" was the timing, not because it was a bad vote. I challenge you to prove to me what was wrong with it considering the reasons I gave. As for paranoia, I don't think it's unusual to be paranoid in WW, especially D1 when there are so many possibilities. I merely stated my observations. My Wintermoot suspicion was I think a mistake on my part, at least voicing it aloud. I did however provide reasoning, if not substantive. I'm willing to reconsider everything I've said or think, always.
Am I an opportunist? Yeah, I say that's a fair assessment. Am I an anarchist? Frankly I don't really know what that means in this game. Do I necessarily want there to be a clear leader with no proof? No, I don't see why that should ever be a thing when you can make your own judgments. Am I saying that Daws is not a worthy leader at this point? NO, I quite agree that he should be.
I'm not a fan of the way I've played either, and if you're a townie, I do understand.
However, if I consider the alternative, you are one great actor. I hope the rest of you town can understand what I am trying to say. And barring the many mistakes I've made, I don't see myself necessarily playing in a "scummy" way. Maybe that's just my playstyle, I don't know.
I'm going to wait to vote, there's still time to consider.
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 09:16:01 PM
2) TGN
3) Hapi, Doc, Sapph, Wisch, BSR, Michi
4) Moot, Willie, newvit, ogun, Daw, ENE, turtle, Human
5) Lau(?), Flying
6) No clear reads
7) N/A
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 09:17:27 PM
1) Myself (because ofc), DawsOh, and Gerrick is supposed to be in 4. I'm struggling the most with reading him right now.
2) TGN
3) Hapi, Doc, Sapph, Wisch, BSR, Michi
4) Moot, Willie, newvit, ogun, Daw, ENE, turtle, Human
5) Lau(?), Flying
6) No clear reads
7) N/A
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 09:20:33 PM
You're also failing my reaction test abysmally. I literally just propped two people I was suspicious of up as my town core (namely BSR and Gerrick), and you didn't even bat an eye.
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 09:23:44 PM
I'm not going to entertain you, Vro, and this appeal to the rest of Town is super LAMIST.Ok.
You're also failing my reaction test abysmally. I literally just propped two people I was suspicious of up as my town core (namely BSR and Gerrick), and you didn't even bat an eye.
I'm not going to spar with you on who you think is or isn't town at this point, feels like a waste of time to argue with you about that right now. For Gerrick, because you said you had your own reasons I chose to think you may have used an investigative ability on him, after all I would expect you to do that, especially since you consider me a clear scum anyway. BSR, you know him better than I do, you may have had your own reasons. I've not hated his posts.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 09:25:18 PM
Obviously, if the resuscitator and Dawsinian were both wolves, I could see why Dawsinian would get resuscitated. But for a townie resuscitator to go against the vote of the town and resuscitate Dawsinian. That seems somewhat less likely.I have no idea what you mean by this... First of all, we definitely know that Daws was a town, idk why you would bring up if he was a wolf. Secondly, town doesn't ever MEAN to kill a fellow town, why wouldn't a town resuscitate a town, and a sufficiently useful role at that? Also, it's bold of you to assume that I'm not a wolf, why did you say that it's the "vote of the town"?
I'm super wary of Wintermoot, and quite amusingly, worried that Vro and Moot could be attempting an epic distancing play here. His vote on a dead wagon (well, actually a wagon that didn't even exist until he created it) looks a lot like just placing a very low-risk vote.
Finally, and most amusingly of all, I think Pengu's town. Wolf Pengu doesn't make mistakes of a bussing nature, and would have handled my prodding a lot better. Wolf Pengu doesn't disappear when the going gets tough, either. Town Pengu, on the other hand, very much does.
I have no idea who a potential 4th scum would be, but I don't believe it's Wisch. Sending a Townie over the edge at the last second like that is Wolf suicide of the highest order, but his reasoning for the vote still doesn't make a lot of sense to me.I see I should explain myself better. I had voted for Gerrick specifically to get him to talk more and explain himself for his first vote. No one else saw the need or validity to vote for him, so my vote was basically a useless vote at that point for someone who had answered what I wanted them to.
When I called his analysis fair I was talking about this bit ^. At that point the "main" wagons were still Lau and Michi, Lau is just acting too similar to the last game we played where he was town and hammering me in the way I expected him to that there was no way I was letting him get lynched D1. As for Michi, I just wasn't completely reading scum in his posts, and I myself had noticed he was less active which didn't coincide with the game I played as WW with him. I may be taking time to reconsider but as it stood I wasn't feeling like lynching him either. When a new wagon appeared tying all three, the player I felt least convinced about was Daws. I don't think I'm in the least popular opinion to say that of those three Daws was the best choice to lynch. It would have taken off Lau specifically and Michi as an option and would have given me information if nothing else, possibly lynching a lurking wolf. That sounded like the best odds to me.
First of all, welcome back Daws. :) I understand that you may be suspicious of me, but I hope you can see the reasoning behind my vote.
Laurentus, the more I think about this, the more I think I have things backwards. You're sussing me, when really I think I should be sussing you, or at least asking you to explain YOUR vote.
When three wagons were up at the same time, why did you stick with Michi? According to you yourself, you were town-leaning Michi, which you said not half an hour after the result was announced, surely you had been thinking that Michi was not the person to go for at least for a while in the back of your mind, knowing you. So what I'm confused about is why DIDN'T you vote Daws? If you think Michi is town, and it is obvious one of you three is going to be lynched, why didn't you go for the player you were least sure of?
Tbh this is making me feel that you and Michi could be going for some sort of play, it would be quite within your capabilities. I wouldn't put it past you to "randomly" vote for a fellow wolf because they had irl obligations to confirm yourself more as town.
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but still I feel I should at least ask. I feel I've explained my vote enough.
Okay, so now that I've made it through the night phase, I'm ready to start playing this game in earnest.
You have been gunning for me like a madman the whole damn day phase, and I am not going to put up with it again.
As to your question, I weighed things in my heart about Michi, and came to that conclusion after seeing the last-minute switcharoo you did.
I am pretty sure I have a significant portion of this game figured out.
Daws, you have been given an amazing gift, and it is now the town's job to keep you alive and well, because you are that rarest of beasts: someone we can mechanically clear as lock-town. You will never have to worry about being suspected again, and as such, yours is the only perspective that we know comes from Town.
We need to start building a town core, and mine is as follows:
1. Daws at the head
2. Gerrick. Might seem like an odd choice, but well, I have reasons.
3. BSR. Also for reasons.
Come out, wolfies. I dare you to try and case this.
Now for my vote: Vroendal. You have had goddamned awful reasoning literally from the moment you started casing me, and you have not improved.
Additionally, your vote for Daws came literally out of nowhere, and you tried to inspire as much paranoia as you possibly could at the end of the phase, while failing to provide substantive reasoning for your sudden suspicion on Wintermoot. You, sir, are an opportunist and anarchist, and I'm not going to put up with it again.
Hey you're smarter than this Lau.
Nobody died last night the wolves had a small ratio at start of game and we commented on that.
Have you not even considered the ressurect could be wolf and change alignment.
Especially since it's canonical.
"They were once men; great kings of men. Then Sauron the Deceiver gave to them nine Rings of Power. Blinded by their greed, they took them without question, one by one falling into darkness. Now they are slaves to his will. They are the Nazgûl: Ringwraiths, neither living nor dead. At all times they feel the presence of the Ring, drawn to the power of the One. They will never stop hunting you."
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 09:27:38 PM
Obviously, if the resuscitator and Dawsinian were both wolves, I could see why Dawsinian would get resuscitated. But for a townie resuscitator to go against the vote of the town and resuscitate Dawsinian. That seems somewhat less likely.I have no idea what you mean by this... First of all, we definitely know that Daws was a town, idk why you would bring up if he was a wolf. Secondly, town doesn't ever MEAN to kill a fellow town, why wouldn't a town resuscitate a town, and a sufficiently useful role at that? Also, it's bold of you to assume that I'm not a wolf, why did you say that it's the "vote of the town"?I'm super wary of Wintermoot, and quite amusingly, worried that Vro and Moot could be attempting an epic distancing play here. His vote on a dead wagon (well, actually a wagon that didn't even exist until he created it) looks a lot like just placing a very low-risk vote.
Finally, and most amusingly of all, I think Pengu's town. Wolf Pengu doesn't make mistakes of a bussing nature, and would have handled my prodding a lot better. Wolf Pengu doesn't disappear when the going gets tough, either. Town Pengu, on the other hand, very much does.
I have no idea who a potential 4th scum would be, but I don't believe it's Wisch. Sending a Townie over the edge at the last second like that is Wolf suicide of the highest order, but his reasoning for the vote still doesn't make a lot of sense to me.I see I should explain myself better. I had voted for Gerrick specifically to get him to talk more and explain himself for his first vote. No one else saw the need or validity to vote for him, so my vote was basically a useless vote at that point for someone who had answered what I wanted them to.
When I called his analysis fair I was talking about this bit ^. At that point the "main" wagons were still Lau and Michi, Lau is just acting too similar to the last game we played where he was town and hammering me in the way I expected him to that there was no way I was letting him get lynched D1. As for Michi, I just wasn't completely reading scum in his posts, and I myself had noticed he was less active which didn't coincide with the game I played as WW with him. I may be taking time to reconsider but as it stood I wasn't feeling like lynching him either. When a new wagon appeared tying all three, the player I felt least convinced about was Daws. I don't think I'm in the least popular opinion to say that of those three Daws was the best choice to lynch. It would have taken off Lau specifically and Michi as an option and would have given me information if nothing else, possibly lynching a lurking wolf. That sounded like the best odds to me.
First of all, welcome back Daws. :) I understand that you may be suspicious of me, but I hope you can see the reasoning behind my vote.
Laurentus, the more I think about this, the more I think I have things backwards. You're sussing me, when really I think I should be sussing you, or at least asking you to explain YOUR vote.
When three wagons were up at the same time, why did you stick with Michi? According to you yourself, you were town-leaning Michi, which you said not half an hour after the result was announced, surely you had been thinking that Michi was not the person to go for at least for a while in the back of your mind, knowing you. So what I'm confused about is why DIDN'T you vote Daws? If you think Michi is town, and it is obvious one of you three is going to be lynched, why didn't you go for the player you were least sure of?
Tbh this is making me feel that you and Michi could be going for some sort of play, it would be quite within your capabilities. I wouldn't put it past you to "randomly" vote for a fellow wolf because they had irl obligations to confirm yourself more as town.
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but still I feel I should at least ask. I feel I've explained my vote enough.
Okay, so now that I've made it through the night phase, I'm ready to start playing this game in earnest.
You have been gunning for me like a madman the whole damn day phase, and I am not going to put up with it again.
As to your question, I weighed things in my heart about Michi, and came to that conclusion after seeing the last-minute switcharoo you did.
I am pretty sure I have a significant portion of this game figured out.
Daws, you have been given an amazing gift, and it is now the town's job to keep you alive and well, because you are that rarest of beasts: someone we can mechanically clear as lock-town. You will never have to worry about being suspected again, and as such, yours is the only perspective that we know comes from Town.
We need to start building a town core, and mine is as follows:
1. Daws at the head
2. Gerrick. Might seem like an odd choice, but well, I have reasons.
3. BSR. Also for reasons.
Come out, wolfies. I dare you to try and case this.
Now for my vote: Vroendal. You have had goddamned awful reasoning literally from the moment you started casing me, and you have not improved.
Additionally, your vote for Daws came literally out of nowhere, and you tried to inspire as much paranoia as you possibly could at the end of the phase, while failing to provide substantive reasoning for your sudden suspicion on Wintermoot. You, sir, are an opportunist and anarchist, and I'm not going to put up with it again.
Hey you're smarter than this Lau.
Nobody died last night the wolves had a small ratio at start of game and we commented on that.
Have you not even considered the ressurect could be wolf and change alignment.
Especially since it's canonical.
"They were once men; great kings of men. Then Sauron the Deceiver gave to them nine Rings of Power. Blinded by their greed, they took them without question, one by one falling into darkness. Now they are slaves to his will. They are the Nazgûl: Ringwraiths, neither living nor dead. At all times they feel the presence of the Ring, drawn to the power of the One. They will never stop hunting you."
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, no.
I have not considered that, because reasons.
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 09:28:40 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 09:29:05 PM
There will be no more free passes today.
I want everyone to make a reads list, and it should be constructed as follows:
1. Lock-town at the top. Lock-town, for those unfamiliar with the term, refers to someone you can mechanically clear as Town. These are the Townies who will never be in anyone's PoE (or Process of Elimination) ever, either because a confirmed Seer has declared them as such, or some other game mechanic, like a resurrection, has brought back a confirmed dead Townie.
2. Town core. These are the people you have the most overwhelming Townie vibes for, either because of really good votes that led to scum dying, or the Towniest thought process in the game.
3. Town-leans. These are the people you've either gut-read, or have found some plausible evidence for, but people who are not quite as cut-and-dried as the Town core.
4. Nulls. All the people which you don't have enough info for yet, to make a determination about whether they are part of either alignment.
5. Scum-leans. Like Town-leans, but acummier.
6. Just good old fashioned, rotten-to-the-core scum. These are the people with the scummiest motivations and actions, such as voting patterns. They are the scum equivalent of the Town core.
7. Lock-scum. People mechanically revealed as being scum. The people you just throw onto the pyre and forget about.
Why don't you give me your list first?
(https://media.tenor.com/images/ccde0ea086e5420c95e3c25a9f30ddb4/tenor.gif)
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 09:30:09 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 09:30:42 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 09:31:09 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 09:32:15 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 09:33:50 PM
One thing I feel I can say without reasonable doubt is that Japi and Lau are not BOTH wolves. :p
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 09:35:05 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 09:38:12 PM
Just from a pure game-design standpoint, it would make this game kind of wolf-sided if a dead player can become part the Wolves.
They probably can, come to think, because giving the town this ability makes the game frankly game-breakingly town-sided if there's no similar ability in the Wolf faction, but this just ain't it.
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 09:39:48 PM
Hapi* I apologize. Also Hapi I don't think your comment is an unreasonable one, but we'll cross that bridge when we reach it, I don't think it's something we should worry about atm, and it is indeed not a good look for you.
This is the sort of nonsense that characterised your thoughts yesterday too. How do you at once tell him it's not unreasonable, and then also say it's not a good look?
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 09:43:03 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 09:43:20 PM
You're just going to have to trust me, or the more fun alternative, try and case me and it. I even hope you succeed in lynching me.
Nah not my style
(https://pa1.narvii.com/6479/7bc09412f79d4b0f3e12492005ab7db062fe749e_hq.gif)
About the only thing that would cause me to simply trust you is if you were the one who rezzed Daws and you were town... that's currently actually what I'm leaving towards reading further into your post.
Hapi* I apologize. Also Hapi I don't think your comment is an unreasonable one, but we'll cross that bridge when we reach it, I don't think it's something we should worry about atm, and it is indeed not a good look for you.
Oh I play with the belief I'm already dead makes it easier. But trust me you do not want me dead.
Post by: Red Mones on December 10, 2020, 09:44:05 PM
48 hours and Sunday are contradictory. Can you clarify which one it is?My bad, it is Saturday.
Also, Daws had been already notified and is aware.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 09:44:59 PM
@Dawsinian, I'm not sure if you've been told, but you're part of this game, again.
Just from a pure game-design standpoint, it would make this game kind of wolf-sided if a dead player can become part the Wolves.
They probably can, come to think, because giving the town this ability makes the game frankly game-breakingly town-sided if there's no similar ability in the Wolf faction, but this just ain't it.
I'd assume it to be a one shot ability.
In the summersend wolf a player joined the wolves albeit that was a choice and not a wolf ability.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 10, 2020, 09:45:09 PM
Vronedal: Seemed annoyed at being grouped with the townies and for a wolf to come out and express that seems unlikely but it could just be genuine frustration at me. Leaning townie for me.
Lau: Has the tone of someone who's really annoyed at something and seems to be trying to seize control of the debate. Either a townie who's helping us focus or a distracting wolf, but the tone perhaps points to the latter, as townies usually sound more cooperative.
Okay, so now that I've made it through the night phase, I'm ready to start playing this game in earnest.
Also, some pure speculation but this quote just comes off as weird. It sounds like Lau had an exceptionally tough night and is just happy to have survived it. Could be a townie scared that the wolves were coming after him/her, could be a wolf who was really stressed out debating with the other wolves what to do.
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 09:50:03 PM
I like to look at every action from both sides, whether she's town, and whether she's a wolf. I agree that casting doubt on someone incredibly likely to have been revived as a town, based on how generally common a town retributionist is to a wolf one. However I do see her point about the canon and the numbers. Also I would think you would realize, that it is entirely possible to construct an argument from rationality and still be wrong (which is exactly what is happening with your vote on me I might add).Hapi* I apologize. Also Hapi I don't think your comment is an unreasonable one, but we'll cross that bridge when we reach it, I don't think it's something we should worry about atm, and it is indeed not a good look for you.
This is the sort of nonsense that characterised your thoughts yesterday too. How do you at once tell her it's not unreasonable, and then also say it's not a good look?
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 09:51:10 PM
I would like to speculate on two interesting players:
Vronedal: Seemed annoyed at being grouped with the townies and for a wolf to come out and express that seems unlikely but it could just be genuine frustration at me. Leaning townie for me.
Lau: Has the tone of someone who's really annoyed at something and seems to be trying to seize control of the debate. Either a townie who's helping us focus or a distracting wolf, but the tone perhaps points to the latter, as townies usually sound more cooperative.Okay, so now that I've made it through the night phase, I'm ready to start playing this game in earnest.
Also, some pure speculation but this quote just comes off as weird. It sounds like Lau had an exceptionally tough night and is just happy to have survived it. Could be a townie scared that the wolves were coming after him/her, could be a wolf who was really stressed out debating with the other wolves what to do.
Woo, there's a lot to dissect here. What planet do you come from where the Wolves would ever betray anything that happened in scum-chay, especially an emotion of all things, to the rest of the thread?
Also, really? I have just evaded and propped two people I'd previously speculated as being Wolves up as my Town core, and this is what you're trying to sus me for?
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 09:53:27 PM
I like to look at every action from both sides, whether she's town, and whether she's a wolf. I agree that casting doubt on someone incredibly likely to have been revived as a town, based on how generally common a town retributionist is to a wolf one. However I do see her point about the canon and the numbers. Also I would think you would realize, that it is entirely possible to construct an argument from rationality and still be wrong (which is exactly what is happening with your vote on me I might add).Hapi* I apologize. Also Hapi I don't think your comment is an unreasonable one, but we'll cross that bridge when we reach it, I don't think it's something we should worry about atm, and it is indeed not a good look for you.
This is the sort of nonsense that characterised your thoughts yesterday too. How do you at once tell her it's not unreasonable, and then also say it's not a good look?
Okay, you know what, I'll take a chance on you again. Go read the thread again, even ISO me, if you have to, and come back to me with what you think is happening right now.
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 09:56:00 PM
Okay, you know what, I'll take a chance on you again. Go read the thread again, even ISO me, if you have to, and come back to me with what you think is happening right now.Will do, it will probably take a while, there's a lot to dissect. I would also like to ask where you've "sussed" BSR in the thread. Because I've looked at the two places I remember you doing broad reads and I see no mention of him.
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 09:57:41 PM
Okay, you know what, I'll take a chance on you again. Go read the thread again, even ISO me, if you have to, and come back to me with what you think is happening right now.Will do, it will probably take a while, there's a lot to dissect. I would also like to ask where you've "sussed" BSR in the thread. Because I've looked at the two places I remember you doing broad reads and I see no mention of him.
That would be right here: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg153935#msg153935
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 09:59:12 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on December 10, 2020, 10:16:09 PM
Woo, there's a lot to dissect here. What planet do you come from where the Wolves would ever betray anything that happened in scum-chay, especially an emotion of all things, to the rest of the thread?Bolded portion mine. I know that you're an aggressive player, but do you feel that comment is in the spirit of the Code of Conduct?
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 10:20:40 PM
Woo, there's a lot to dissect here. What planet do you come from where the Wolves would ever betray anything that happened in scum-chay, especially an emotion of all things, to the rest of the thread?Bolded portion mine. I know that you're an aggressive player, but do you feel that comment is in the spirit of the Code of Conduct?
No, and I apologise, Flying Eagles. I got caught up in the moment and I acted irresponsibly.
Post by: turtle on December 10, 2020, 10:22:17 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 10:22:53 PM
Vote The Greenlandic NorthWhy?
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 10, 2020, 10:23:56 PM
I guess you are right. There's a small possibility that the tone might have been accidentally revealing of the scum-chat, but you seem too experienced for that. Your tone is however making it sound very urgent that we get something done though, does anyone know if his tone is more urgent than usual?I would like to speculate on two interesting players:
Vronedal: Seemed annoyed at being grouped with the townies and for a wolf to come out and express that seems unlikely but it could just be genuine frustration at me. Leaning townie for me.
Lau: Has the tone of someone who's really annoyed at something and seems to be trying to seize control of the debate. Either a townie who's helping us focus or a distracting wolf, but the tone perhaps points to the latter, as townies usually sound more cooperative.Okay, so now that I've made it through the night phase, I'm ready to start playing this game in earnest.
Also, some pure speculation but this quote just comes off as weird. It sounds like Lau had an exceptionally tough night and is just happy to have survived it. Could be a townie scared that the wolves were coming after him/her, could be a wolf who was really stressed out debating with the other wolves what to do.
Woo, there's a lot to dissect here. What planet do you come from where the Wolves would ever betray anything that happened in scum-chay, especially an emotion of all things, to the rest of the thread?
Also, really? I have just evaded and propped two people I'd previously speculated as being Wolves up as my Town core, and this is what you're trying to sus me for?
And I'm still new to this Werewolf thing and play somewhat aggressively myself so I get why you would get frustrated with me.
Post by: Wintermoot on December 10, 2020, 10:28:10 PM
It's not unusual for him, though.
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 10:32:31 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 10:40:20 PM
Post by: turtle on December 10, 2020, 10:41:22 PM
I still don't understand what's going onVote The Greenlandic NorthWhy?
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 10:44:29 PM
Okay, Turtle, let's work through this. What is giving you trouble right now? Maybe we can help. This game is very overwhelming to new players, especially this time around, because there are so many experienced people playing and using a lot of jargon and strategy that has been accrued over years of play, and anyone in your shoes would feel overwhelmed by it.
Post by: Dawsinian on December 10, 2020, 10:59:50 PM
I'm super wary of Wintermoot, and quite amusingly, worried that Vro and Moot could be attempting an epic distancing play here. His vote on a dead wagon (well, actually a wagon that didn't even exist until he created it) looks a lot like just placing a very low-risk vote.
Finally, and most amusingly of all, I think Pengu's town. Wolf Pengu doesn't make mistakes of a bussing nature, and would have handled my prodding a lot better. Wolf Pengu doesn't disappear when the going gets tough, either. Town Pengu, on the other hand, very much does.
I have no idea who a potential 4th scum would be, but I don't believe it's Wisch. Sending a Townie over the edge at the last second like that is Wolf suicide of the highest order, but his reasoning for the vote still doesn't make a lot of sense to me.I see I should explain myself better. I had voted for Gerrick specifically to get him to talk more and explain himself for his first vote. No one else saw the need or validity to vote for him, so my vote was basically a useless vote at that point for someone who had answered what I wanted them to.
When I called his analysis fair I was talking about this bit ^. At that point the "main" wagons were still Lau and Michi, Lau is just acting too similar to the last game we played where he was town and hammering me in the way I expected him to that there was no way I was letting him get lynched D1. As for Michi, I just wasn't completely reading scum in his posts, and I myself had noticed he was less active which didn't coincide with the game I played as WW with him. I may be taking time to reconsider but as it stood I wasn't feeling like lynching him either. When a new wagon appeared tying all three, the player I felt least convinced about was Daws. I don't think I'm in the least popular opinion to say that of those three Daws was the best choice to lynch. It would have taken off Lau specifically and Michi as an option and would have given me information if nothing else, possibly lynching a lurking wolf. That sounded like the best odds to me.
First of all, welcome back Daws. :) I understand that you may be suspicious of me, but I hope you can see the reasoning behind my vote.
Laurentus, the more I think about this, the more I think I have things backwards. You're sussing me, when really I think I should be sussing you, or at least asking you to explain YOUR vote.
When three wagons were up at the same time, why did you stick with Michi? According to you yourself, you were town-leaning Michi, which you said not half an hour after the result was announced, surely you had been thinking that Michi was not the person to go for at least for a while in the back of your mind, knowing you. So what I'm confused about is why DIDN'T you vote Daws? If you think Michi is town, and it is obvious one of you three is going to be lynched, why didn't you go for the player you were least sure of?
Tbh this is making me feel that you and Michi could be going for some sort of play, it would be quite within your capabilities. I wouldn't put it past you to "randomly" vote for a fellow wolf because they had irl obligations to confirm yourself more as town.
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but still I feel I should at least ask. I feel I've explained my vote enough.
Vote: Dawsinian
Take it how you will. :3
Thank you for responding Gerrick, I see your rationale.
Out of everyone up there I feel most comfortable voting Daws. I don't really have a good reason, I think Gerrick's analysis is fair. I would rather he goes instead of the others.
No, @Vroendal, I don't understand the reasoning for your vote. Up until your vote, we had a three-way tie. Your supporting argument for my vote was that you didn't really have a good reason - you just cited @Gerrick's reasoning and moved on. While most of your posts have been long-winded, your vote for me had just about your shortest reply so far. Knowing that your vote was most likely going to get me lynched, why cast it without an iota of evidence? Meanwhile, you've been trying to cast doubt on the two people who I'm getting town vibes from (@Laurentus and @Adorable Oracle Hapi).
Vote: Vroendal
Also to address my D1 vote: I was simply responding in jest to the whole "no party" comment that Lau made. This is my first werewolf game, so I saw fit to have a little fun since I was sure we would get nowhere day 1. Clearly, I was wrong. I know now not to try and poke fun. Won't happen again. I simply didn't change my vote because once it was evident to me that I had made a mistake, we had a tie. I didn't want to break the tie and cause someone to get lynched who didn't deserve it.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 10, 2020, 11:06:34 PM
I didn't want to break the tie and cause someone to get lynched who didn't deserve it.
I guess the challenging thing about Werewolf is that we often have to make 50/50 coin flips on who should get lynched, just because the act of lynching gives so much info compared to no lynching.
You're doing great, BTW :)
Post by: turtle on December 10, 2020, 11:10:33 PM
Lol. Turtle is Town, everyone.Thanks for calling me town but I think is more my lack of LOTR knowledge.
Okay, Turtle, let's work through this. What is giving you trouble right now? Maybe we can help. This game is very overwhelming to new players, especially this time around, because there are so many experienced people playing and using a lot of jargon and strategy that has been accrued over years of play, and anyone in your shoes would feel overwhelmed by it.
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 11:12:13 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 11:12:59 PM
Post by: turtle on December 10, 2020, 11:16:23 PM
Post by: Dawsinian on December 10, 2020, 11:16:57 PM
I don't trust them.Why not?
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 11:21:41 PM
No, @Vroendal, I don't understand the reasoning for your vote. Up until your vote, we had a three-way tie. Your supporting argument for my vote was that you didn't really have a good reason - you just cited @Gerrick's reasoning and moved on. While most of your posts have been long-winded, your vote for me had just about your shortest reply so far. Knowing that your vote was most likely going to get me lynched, why cast it without an iota of evidence? Meanwhile, you've been trying to cast doubt on the two people who I'm getting town vibes from (@Laurentus and @Adorable Oracle Hapi).My vote on you was an attempt to keep the possibility of lynching Lau or Michi to a minimum. I said I did not have a good reason because I hadn't seen anything from you that screamed wolf to me. My vote was an attempt to go for the best odds of lynching a wolf. I felt that of the three you were the most likely to be wolf, not having any other information to suggest anything else. Because you were tied and it did not appear as if anyone else was going to be tied, I felt I had to act quickly and I cast my vote. Gerrick's reasoning concerning his vote on you seemed to be logical, I deemed it fit to follow along with. My goal is not to cast doubt on Lau specifically, but rather to keep the possibilities open and to be aware that he holds a great deal of power in the town. I still do not feel like voting him. As for Hapi, again I'm keeping the possibilities open, and have rather been arguing for her, and Lau against. I was critical of a comment she posted, but I'm not going to vote for her either.
Vote: Vroendal
Also to address my D1 vote: I was simply responding in jest to the whole "no party" comment that Lau made. This is my first werewolf game, so I saw fit to have a little fun since I was sure we would get nowhere day 1. Clearly, I was wrong. I know now not to try and poke fun. Won't happen again. I simply didn't change my vote because once it was evident to me that I had made a mistake, we had a tie. I didn't want to break the tie and cause someone to get lynched who didn't deserve it.
I was unaware this was your first WW game. :( I'm not trying to bash fun here, please don't think of me like that. D1 shenanigans are to be expected, it's just difficult for me at least to interpret what's just a goof and what is a calculated attempt to appear a certain way to town. No one wants to lynch someone undeservingly, but there are sacrifices that have to be made to gain information or progress the game forward. The moment the first person retaliated against a joke vote there was going to be a lynch.
I'm not surprised you're voting this way, if I'm lynched, so be it. I accept the consequences of my words. But until I'm lynched I'm going to fight it. I'm not guilty for voting the way I did.
Post by: turtle on December 10, 2020, 11:24:28 PM
The only thing I think I've seen them say was accusing meI don't trust them.Why not?
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 11:37:55 PM
@turtle, what you're describing there is what we call an OMGUS vote. This is short for Oh My God You Suck. It's a vote characterised by voting for someone for no other reason than them voting for you.
OMGUS is usually not great, because a person's vote for you does not make them inherently suspicious. No one has any clue at the start if everyone else can be trusted, except for the wolves, and the odds are actually very high that townies will be suspicious of each other and even vote one another off.
What you should be looking for are two things: votes and actions that benefit Town, and votes and actions that benefit the wolves. To do this, you need to look at people's thought processes.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 11:39:15 PM
Anyways Vro is playing an awful game and did jump the shark on a vote that led to the death of one Daws. But I don't think a wolf would just openly exclaim to make of that vote what you will. Like that's a death sentence. I'm still more concerned with Gerrick than anyone else.
As such
Vote: Gerrick
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 11:44:24 PM
They claimed to not want to push Michi or Lau over the edge but they had no issue killing Daws with little reason beyond hes to quiet. Let's create an even more confusing tie.
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 11:44:36 PM
Honestly at this point I'm going to say this. I have such a different attitude and approach to this game than anyone else here because if I were scum I'd be screaming in scumchat to stay low profile especially D1 and just let town eat each other. But everyone wants to read so much into the psychology of every post lol.
Anyways Vro is playing an awful game and did jump the shark on a vote that led to the death of one Daws. But I don't think a wolf would just openly exclaim to make of that vote what you will. Like that's a death sentence. I'm still more concerned with Gerrick than anyone else.
As such
Vote: Gerrick
No, actually, Vro fits the description of a power-wolf to a tee right now, and no jokes, Vro, if you are a Wolf, you've made an insane improvement in your play since the one from 7-ish months ago, and you have my vote for representing Wintreath at the Mafia Champs next year.
The problem is also that I have seen a player pull the exact shit you're pulling now if you are a Wolf in my own Champs game this year and it was insanely effective.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 11:47:16 PM
Post by: turtle on December 10, 2020, 11:48:47 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 10, 2020, 11:49:48 PM
No, actually, Vro fits the description of a power-wolf to a tee right now, and no jokes, Vro, if you are a Wolf, you've made an insane improvement in your play since the one from 7-ish months ago, and you have my vote for representing Wintreath at the Mafia Champs next year.Lau, I'm not going to talk at length about this bc I know you want my game analysis, but if possible if you are doing so I would ask that you not compare me to anyone else just to fit the theories in your mind. I am not that person, I don't know what they did. I'm Vro.
The problem is also that I have seen a player pull the exact shit you're pulling now if you are a Wolf in my own Champs game this year and it was insanely effective.
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 11:50:25 PM
Power-wolfing is also called open-wolfing, because whenever you see it, literally everyone in spec chat screams that the person is a Wolf, many of the players who clearly see they're wolves are simply just killed, and the remaining players don't do anything because they're just like "there's no goddamned way that a Wolf would be this Wolfy."
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 11:52:53 PM
can I unvote
Yes, you can.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 11:53:10 PM
can I unvote
Yes you can bold it and write unvote
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 11:54:16 PM
No, actually, Vro fits the description of a power-wolf to a tee right now, and no jokes, Vro, if you are a Wolf, you've made an insane improvement in your play since the one from 7-ish months ago, and you have my vote for representing Wintreath at the Mafia Champs next year.Lau, I'm not going to talk at length about this bc I know you want my game analysis, but if possible if you are doing so I would ask that you not compare me to anyone else just to fit the theories in your mind. I am not that person, I don't know what they did. I'm Vro.
The problem is also that I have seen a player pull the exact shit you're pulling now if you are a Wolf in my own Champs game this year and it was insanely effective.
You've spent time playing with Funnier over in Bulba, so I'd expect Power-wolfing to be well within your range by now.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 11:54:51 PM
I detect a tone, Hapi, lol.
Power-wolfing is also called open-wolfing, because whenever you see it, literally everyone in spec chat screams that the person is a Wolf, many of the players who clearly see they're wolves are simply just killed, and the remaining players don't do anything because they're just like "there's no goddamned way that a Wolf would be this Wolfy."
Except wouldn't a power wolf who's been targeted since D1 relentlessly maybe change their playstyle so as not to get themselves killed when it became apparent it wasn't working?
Post by: turtle on December 10, 2020, 11:56:00 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 10, 2020, 11:56:10 PM
Difference is they were never really pressured.
Post by: Laurentus on December 10, 2020, 11:56:37 PM
No, because that inconsistency would get called out immediately. It's a high-risk high-reward style that requires your full commitment, otherwise it will fail.I detect a tone, Hapi, lol.
Power-wolfing is also called open-wolfing, because whenever you see it, literally everyone in spec chat screams that the person is a Wolf, many of the players who clearly see they're wolves are simply just killed, and the remaining players don't do anything because they're just like "there's no goddamned way that a Wolf would be this Wolfy."
Except wouldn't a power wolf who's been targeted since D1 relentlessly maybe change their playstyle so as not to get themselves killed when it became apparent it wasn't working?
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 12:01:09 AM
Well let's see what happens...
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 12:07:13 AM
Post by: Doc on December 11, 2020, 12:08:37 AM
also making a callout post on my twitter.com (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY8s3nKq33k), do this seriously, dammit
PS: what the fuck y'all 17 posts while I was writing this what the fuck is wrong with you all
1)
Me (Obviously, but not a very useful read for anyone else)
2)
Daws (should notionally be a lock, but I can't shake the possibility that he got rezzed as a Wraith; it's almost unheard of for a human in LOTR canon to come back from the dead (the sole exception: Beren, and that was direct intervention from the gods) without being one of the Nine, and Theoden fits the profile as a Mortal King. If he was revealed as Gandalf I'd accept it out-and-out as just 'Gandalf's power', since he comes back as Gandalf the White after his mutual kill with the Balrog, but...Theoden??? Then again, I may be reading too much into the roles, but knowing Silv was involved with this game I have no doubt that roles are strongly suggestive of the powers they possess)
TGN + Turtle (just staggering displays of 'I am very new to this game and overwhelmed, which suggests I am not receiving outside help, as I might be if I were a Wolf')
3)
Sapphiron (downgraded from 2) earlier because on a gut-check, I didn't really have any valid reason to assign him core)
Lau + Vro (I am convinced y'all are just town-eating-town right now, because this screams too wolfy etc. etc.)
Wintermoot (on reflection me and him seem to gun for each other a lot when we're both town and it's time to end this cycle of town-killing-town violence)
4)
Hapi (because she is mechanically identical to 1 and 7 simultaneously, which averages out to 4)
Wischland (until I get something substantive from the other TKIers to back them up, I just have no sense of their meta and that worries me a little too much; they've been very helpful thus far but without knowledge of how to read their tells I just don't know squat)
ogun (crippling lack of info)
ENE, Flying Eagles, HumanSanity, Wille-Harlia (the Other TKIers) (y'all, I basically haven't heard diddly from you; WH did chime in with some reads earlier, Flying Eagles is starting to weigh in, HumanSanity is hopefully less busy now so this hopefully changes in the near future)
Dawcreek (no info - literally not a single post, which ordinarily would make me suspicious that he's trynna lurk but the very limited-use meta I have from Spyfall suggests he also gets avoidant when there's information overload)
newvitalania (no posts, no meta, not fair to assume one way for Daw and another way for someone else)
5)
Michi (I just have a gut feeling you're a wolf trying to ride herd and follow the Vro-Lau war into a mislynch)
Gerrick (same reasoning as Michi, albeit with a little more guilt since you made a valid point that it was damned-if-you-did, damned if you didn't; that's Werewolf, baby (https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a47mA5y_460s.jpg))
BSR (this actually has little to do with where your vote landed, since you were the first one on the wagon, but rather how you came at it, which was application of RNGesus; that gives us no useful information to work off of and gives you the handy get-out-of-jail clause of 'well I just rolled the dice'; I hate it and I'd rather not buy it. You'd probably frankly get a pass if that vote hadn't lynched town but now that it did, it just tickles the 'I don't care who dies because they're all town' sort of sense)
6)
space intentionally left blank
7)
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 12:23:38 AM
But that's beside the point, really. Daws is Lock-town, and that's that, until someone scans him and finds otherwise.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 12:28:15 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 01:24:00 AM
Lau's read list, as requested.
also making a callout post on my twitter.com (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY8s3nKq33k), do this seriously, dammit
PS: what the fuck y'all 17 posts while I was writing this what the fuck is wrong with you all
1)
Me (Obviously, but not a very useful read for anyone else)
2)
Daws (should notionally be a lock, but I can't shake the possibility that he got rezzed as a Wraith; it's almost unheard of for a human in LOTR canon to come back from the dead (the sole exception: Beren, and that was direct intervention from the gods) without being one of the Nine, and Theoden fits the profile as a Mortal King. If he was revealed as Gandalf I'd accept it out-and-out as just 'Gandalf's power', since he comes back as Gandalf the White after his mutual kill with the Balrog, but...Theoden??? Then again, I may be reading too much into the roles, but knowing Silv was involved with this game I have no doubt that roles are strongly suggestive of the powers they possess)
TGN + Turtle (just staggering displays of 'I am very new to this game and overwhelmed, which suggests I am not receiving outside help, as I might be if I were a Wolf')
3)
Sapphiron (downgraded from 2) earlier because on a gut-check, I didn't really have any valid reason to assign him core)
Lau + Vro (I am convinced y'all are just town-eating-town right now, because this screams too wolfy etc. etc.)
Wintermoot (on reflection me and him seem to gun for each other a lot when we're both town and it's time to end this cycle of town-killing-town violence)
4)
Hapi (because she is mechanically identical to 1 and 7 simultaneously, which averages out to 4)
Wischland (until I get something substantive from the other TKIers to back them up, I just have no sense of their meta and that worries me a little too much; they've been very helpful thus far but without knowledge of how to read their tells I just don't know squat)
ogun (crippling lack of info)
ENE, Flying Eagles, HumanSanity, Wille-Harlia (the Other TKIers) (y'all, I basically haven't heard diddly from you; WH did chime in with some reads earlier, Flying Eagles is starting to weigh in, HumanSanity is hopefully less busy now so this hopefully changes in the near future)
Dawcreek (no info - literally not a single post, which ordinarily would make me suspicious that he's trynna lurk but the very limited-use meta I have from Spyfall suggests he also gets avoidant when there's information overload)
newvitalania (no posts, no meta, not fair to assume one way for Daw and another way for someone else)
5)
Michi (I just have a gut feeling you're a wolf trying to ride herd and follow the Vro-Lau war into a mislynch)
Gerrick (same reasoning as Michi, albeit with a little more guilt since you made a valid point that it was damned-if-you-did, damned if you didn't; that's Werewolf, baby (https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a47mA5y_460s.jpg))
BSR (this actually has little to do with where your vote landed, since you were the first one on the wagon, but rather how you came at it, which was application of RNGesus; that gives us no useful information to work off of and gives you the handy get-out-of-jail clause of 'well I just rolled the dice'; I hate it and I'd rather not buy it. You'd probably frankly get a pass if that vote hadn't lynched town but now that it did, it just tickles the 'I don't care who dies because they're all town' sort of sense)
6)
space intentionally left blank
7)Hapi (she is maximum chaotic and that's super dangerous)
I feel extremely special thank you ^^
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/e7a2b980f7f9ccf354f5fc94a462df96/tumblr_ng6jdcnHf51tkl30lo1_500.gif)
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 01:51:48 AM
Town Core
Daws (Under normal circumstances, I would have put him under Lock-Town but Ruguo’s shenanigans have made me extremely sensitive to potential of role alignment changes)
Town Lean
Hapi (Partly meta-read, partly instinct that it does not make sense to claim a character role as opposed to a particular power since someone can jump in to contradict very easily)
Wischland (Have not seen reasoning that is particularly off from how a Town would read)
Null
Lau (Well he is a Magnificent Bastard, whether he is town-aligned or wolf-aligned he will usually lead the discussions unless game mechanics suddenly prove otherwise)
ENE, Flying Eagles, HumanSanity, Wille-Harlia, Turtle (really scarce information to work with, possibility of general regional playstyle differences)
Vroendal (Does have an unusual amount of conviction in defending TGN, Hapi and myself but at the same time put into the hotseat by Lau, for which explaining his reasoning kind of give a more than proportionate confident impression)
BSR (I only have a random vote to work with)
Newvitalania (absolute silence)
Scum Lean:
Gerrick (Lurky Wolf playstyle with semi-understandable semi-questionable accusations)
TGN (Easy beginner Wolf mistake to see a convenient bandwagon and jump in)
Moot (Tends to adopt a more aggressive role as a Wolf than as a Town)
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 01:52:18 AM
Post by: TGN on December 11, 2020, 01:59:41 AM
Vote The Greenlandic NorthPlease give me a valid reason why
also its TGN now
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 02:01:46 AM
Vote The Greenlandic NorthPlease give me a valid reason why
also its TGN now
They've unvoted. Its clear they're new and overwhelmed
Post by: TGN on December 11, 2020, 02:03:20 AM
ohVote The Greenlandic NorthPlease give me a valid reason why
also its TGN now
They've unvoted. Its clear they're new and overwhelmed
@turtle me too
just not as overwhelmed
Post by: turtle on December 11, 2020, 02:10:19 AM
Post by: TGN on December 11, 2020, 02:17:18 AM
Sorry about that TGNno problem :)
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 02:25:41 AM
I'm surprised that Sapph didn't read me more clearly, but not sure if sus yet.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 02:45:03 AM
Sorry about that TGN
Sorry about that TGNno problem :)
This wholesomeness in my wolf game!!! Both wolves!
I kid I kid...but seriously back to backstabbing >:D
Post by: Dawsinian on December 11, 2020, 02:46:25 AM
Sorry about that TGNSorry about that TGNno problem :)
This wholesomeness in my wolf game!!! Both wolves!
I kid I kid...but seriously back to backstabbing >:D
Uh huh... and who are you backstabbing, @Adorable Oracle Hapi?
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 02:58:52 AM
Sorry about that TGNSorry about that TGNno problem :)
This wholesomeness in my wolf game!!! Both wolves!
I kid I kid...but seriously back to backstabbing >:D
Uh huh... and who are you backstabbing, @Adorable Oracle Hapi?
I don't stab backs I prefer to stab fronts. Ich bin euer schild ^^
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 03:17:07 AM
Town-Core
Dawsinian: Very likely still town as he was, but there's still a chance he was brought back as scum. Didn't that happen last game with Doc?
Town-Lean
Hapi: Likely town from her Aragorn posts, but still could be a ploy.
Laurentus: Has been the aggressive player we know, but still too soon to say whether or not he's town.
Wischland: Has been helpful, but still don't know why they voted for Dawsinian when he already had a majority.
TGN/turtle: Don't know what they're doing, but they could be told by an experienced wolf to play this up.
Wintermoot: Seems like he's really trying to figure this all out in the way he's speaking.
Null
Doc: Has been on the quiet side and has only really said how he feels about players.
Sapphiron: Hasn't really done anything suspicious yet and overall seems genuine, but not enough for me to really go on.
HumanSanity/Wille-Harlia: Quiet, but somewhat understandable as they're not from here. Each day they don't post, though, they're starting to lean more towards scum.
newvitalania/Dawcreek/Eastern New England: Have not posted.
Scum-Lean
Vroendal: Don't know why he voted Daws into the majority, but it did conveniently make me look sus after voting for me in the first place.
Michi: Has been very silent after voting.
BraveSirRobin: Hiding under the radar?
Flying Eagles: Shoddy accusations against Laurentus.
Ogunbiyi: Has pretty much only said that we shouldn't vote D1 then went silent.
Post by: Michi on December 11, 2020, 03:17:49 AM
I found it amusing that he pulled exactly what I did on you D1 when TGN popped on a vote on me and broke the tie; go after the person that helped create the tie and ask them why they didn't remove it when they saw that the tie was broken. Only difference was that A) Your vote was more "random" and B) TGN is new and wasn't entirely sure what he was doing, and ended up removing his vote.
In Vro's case, this comes off as more blaming the person who didn't even start the wagon as opposed to taking responsibility as the person who broke the tie.
On top of that, his first D2 thing is going after you exactly for what I did for and gave you the clear for since as I said, it fits our normal bickering that we do even Day 1 when you're a townie role. Like...I don't see why that point about you not switching got repeated, especially after TGN changed their vote quickly anyways, and the tie itself was broken again later when Vro added another vote to Daws.
Like...that just feels to me like "Shit, I fucked up doing that and now I'm going to have all this suspicion, I better put the heat on that player that started a wagon on someone else and didn't change his vote!"
The reasoning presented later made no sense at all either. Keeping lynching myself or Lau to a minimum, going for the best odds of a wolf in D1 despite the fact that we very, very rarely hit a wolf D1 and more than likely hit a townie (and in our games, it's usually a power role townie since it's a weird tradition of ours to accidentally kill off a good role early), why on earth didn't you just vote either to keep the tie or vote someone that hadn't been listed yet so that it remained a 2-2-2 tie majority?
Like, I had to read that a few times because I couldn't comprehend what he was trying to go for with that logic.
So yeah, if it isn't obvious, my scum-lean read on Vro has shifted quite a bit. If I had to make a list, I'd go:
Town Lock: Currently none
Town Core: Laurentus (His style this game has been really in vibe with his townie style so far), Sapphiron, Wischland
Town Lean: HumanSanity, Gerrick, Dawsinian (He could have come back normally, he could have come back as a wraith as suggested, but right now I'm more town-leaning him), Doc
No read: Turtle, TGN, Wintermoot, BSR, ENE, Willie, Dawcreek, Ogun (didn't realize he was even playing), Flying Eagles
Unsure: Hapi
Scum Red Alerts: Vroendal
My list is pretty yikes right now with all of the nulls, mainly because either the people haven't responded much to give an impression (Moot, BSR), are players from our ally region that I'm not familiar with their playstyles (ENE, Flying eagles, Willie), have been absent (Dawcreek, Ogun), are new and while it could be easy to give them both a derp clear because of it, it's possible one of them could be a wolf (turtle, TGN). Suffice it to say, it's worrying there's so many null reads.
There's also the fact that Hapi is making me continuously second guess. She makes strong cases for herself to where she should definitely be town, but the continued Aragorn quoting feels like a really heavy-handed attempt to try to solidify that she's Aragorn to the point where a wolf might continuously try to convince players that they're townie. It almost feels an attempt at deep-wolfing where she's trying to convince not only us, but herself that she's this good guy that she has been quoting so often.
And I've already made my case about Vro, so I'll end this with a vote.
Vote: Vroendal
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 03:32:21 AM
Post by: Michi on December 11, 2020, 03:35:02 AM
Still though, I'm pretty set on my vote because despite that one mistake on my own part, I still find Vro's defense and deflection at Laurentus when he himself broke the tie with Daws with shoddy reasoning to be pretty questionable.
Post by: turtle on December 11, 2020, 03:49:52 AM
Vote Vroendal
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 03:52:20 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 03:58:23 AM
On top of that, his first D2 thing is going after you exactly for what I did for and gave you the clear for since as I said, it fits our normal bickering that we do even Day 1 when you're a townie role. Like...I don't see why that point about you not switching got repeated, especially after TGN changed their vote quickly anyways, and the tie itself was broken again later when Vro added another vote to Daws.Obligatory defense -
Like...that just feels to me like "Shit, I fucked up doing that and now I'm going to have all this suspicion, I better put the heat on that player that started a wagon on someone else and didn't change his vote!"
The reasoning presented later made no sense at all either. Keeping lynching myself or Lau to a minimum, going for the best odds of a wolf in D1 despite the fact that we very, very rarely hit a wolf D1 and more than likely hit a townie (and in our games, it's usually a power role townie since it's a weird tradition of ours to accidentally kill off a good role early), why on earth didn't you just vote either to keep the tie or vote someone that hadn't been listed yet so that it remained a 2-2-2 tie majority?
Like, I had to read that a few times because I couldn't comprehend what he was trying to go for with that logic.
I was aware that when I made that post I would get flak for it, I posted it anyway. I did so because I find it important to consider all the possibilities, and that little "what if" kept nagging at my brain. I felt that it would be remiss to never bring it up as an option and then feel shame later if it turned out to be true and I said nothing.
Despite that, I still didn't vote. I can't convince myself it's Lau. I would've thought you known the way I play scum well enough to know that I would never make a post like that. I'm going to be refuted on that point but it just is what it is.
I still think that my reasoning was good. It was logical, it kept what I believed to be assets safe for certain, and tbh I really don't understand why people are calling it such bad reasoning so repeatedly. I'm just not seeing it. Maybe that's just being oblivious on my part but I really don't see why voting on a vanity wagon would be better. WHY would we have wanted a tie there? What am I not understanding? 2/3 I thought were town, the last one I was unsure of. It was the most logical choice to save the 2 by voting the 1.
As for traditionally not lynching a wolf D1, I don't see why that has anything to do with anything. Sure the numbers are against town but it never hurts to try, otherwise why vote D1 EVER?
Post by: turtle on December 11, 2020, 04:08:11 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 04:10:02 AM
On top of that, his first D2 thing is going after you exactly for what I did for and gave you the clear for since as I said, it fits our normal bickering that we do even Day 1 when you're a townie role. Like...I don't see why that point about you not switching got repeated, especially after TGN changed their vote quickly anyways, and the tie itself was broken again later when Vro added another vote to Daws.Obligatory defense -
Like...that just feels to me like "Shit, I fucked up doing that and now I'm going to have all this suspicion, I better put the heat on that player that started a wagon on someone else and didn't change his vote!"
The reasoning presented later made no sense at all either. Keeping lynching myself or Lau to a minimum, going for the best odds of a wolf in D1 despite the fact that we very, very rarely hit a wolf D1 and more than likely hit a townie (and in our games, it's usually a power role townie since it's a weird tradition of ours to accidentally kill off a good role early), why on earth didn't you just vote either to keep the tie or vote someone that hadn't been listed yet so that it remained a 2-2-2 tie majority?
Like, I had to read that a few times because I couldn't comprehend what he was trying to go for with that logic.
I was aware that when I made that post I would get flak for it, I posted it anyway. I did so because I find it important to consider all the possibilities, and that little "what if" kept nagging at my brain. I felt that it would be remiss to never bring it up as an option and then feel shame later if it turned out to be true and I said nothing.
Despite that, I still didn't vote. I can't convince myself it's Lau. I would've thought you known the way I play scum well enough to know that I would never make a post like that. I'm going to be refuted on that point but it just is what it is.
I still think that my reasoning was good. It was logical, it kept what I believed to be assets safe for certain, and tbh I really don't understand why people are calling it such bad reasoning so repeatedly. I'm just not seeing it. Maybe that's just being oblivious on my part but I really don't see why voting on a vanity wagon would be better. WHY would we have wanted a tie there? What am I not understanding? 2/3 I thought were town, the last one I was unsure of. It was the most logical choice to save the 2 by voting the 1.
As for traditionally not lynching a wolf D1, I don't see why that has anything to do with anything. Sure the numbers are against town but it never hurts to try, otherwise why vote D1 EVER?
This is better.
Quick question for someone who's played more than one game, especially if more than one has been with Vro as scum: how does he usually respond when the pressure is on him as scum? I just have the one experience where he pretty much receded into the background once I turned the tide on him.
This persistence is coming across as out of character and seems quite genuine, so I need an objective opinion here.
Post by: Doc on December 11, 2020, 04:10:38 AM
In light of this, the, er, 'wagonomics' reasoning as Lau put it, and my gut still saying he's being one of the primary drivers pushing Town in the wrong direction, Vote: Michi.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 04:13:37 AM
Post by: Dawsinian on December 11, 2020, 04:22:34 AM
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/WplVoCm.png)
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 04:32:06 AM
@Vro, I know I am your top scum read, at present, but clearly, my lynch is not happening today. So with that said, who are you leaning towards voting for, who could actually be a proper wagon?First of all "@Vro" That actually made me smile ^-^
I never planned on voting you anyway, and yes I can clearly see that there won't be one on you. Personally, I'm rather at a loss here. Everyone has been making the obvious choice, going for me, or the right choice, not going for me (biased I know but how else would I phrase it?) and I'm not getting a lot of information out of it because both sides have strong reasons. Michi has had by far the weakest case at least in my opinion, but I really feel that he wouldn't make that kind of mistake as scum. The other people who have posted are being extremely cautious in what they say, and I would really like the others who haven't spoken yet to share their thoughts.
If I had to vote someone right here, it would probably be Vote: Willie-Harlia. I just have so little good reads on people at this point because I'm so paranoid from the stress of being targeted that I really feel the need to scope out people who have been lurking but letting the town eat me alive.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 04:38:05 AM
Unvote Vroendal
Vote: Michi
And with that, I'm making two wagon choices. Anyone who votes anywhere else is dying.
This sounds very genuine, and the compelling thing about it is that you sound genuinely betrayed by Michi.
So yeah. Everyone now has a choice between Pengu and Vro. No other wagons are encouraged, because then we have a harder time analysing people's choices.
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 04:48:23 AM
No, I'm not going to let you start a vanity wagon.Ok, I see why you did that and I respect your ultimatum, but do you truly honestly think that Michi would make a case against me without first reading the thread through/paying attention as scum (he made a mistake in his first paragraph against me) and then continue on a rather weak reason for my vote to then end up voting me? I'm willing to attribute this to my unfamiliarity, but when he played scum with me even though he had real life commitments he still made a much better attempt than this. He reads distracted town to me personally.
Unvote Vroendal
Vote: Michi
And with that, I'm making two wagon choices. Anyone who votes anywhere else is dying.
This sounds very genuine, and the compelling thing about it is that you sound genuinely betrayed by Michi.
So yeah. Everyone now has a choice between Pengu and Vro. No other wagons are encouraged, because then we have a harder time analysing people's choices.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 04:53:39 AM
Town Lean: HumanSanity, Gerrick, Dawsinian, DocFound something intriguing - Can you explain how did you categorise Sanity under "Town Lean" when most people are reading nothing much into people engaging in minimal activity? And a bit more explanation on Gerrick and Doc would be great.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 11, 2020, 04:59:15 AM
Anyone who votes anywhere else is dying.Well, if Laurentus is unable to uphold this ultimatum, I think that would indicate that there is a good chance he is being a dishonest wolf. Either way, I find it quite likely that Lau is a powerful role, as I’d doubt he’d make these claims without being able to back them up.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:00:54 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 05:04:30 AM
Post by: Wille-Harlia on December 11, 2020, 05:12:46 AM
Town Lock:
Myself (duh)
Dawsinian
Town Core:
Wischland
TGN/turtle, I remember feeling really confused as well my first WW game, and the sheer amount of posts probably isn't confusing them any less. If they were a Wolf, they would not be acting like this, because (presumably) the more experienced wolves would tell them what/how/when to post.
Town Lean:
Sapphiron
Laurentus
Gut feeling for both.
Null:
ogunbiyi6422, newvitalania, ENE, Dawcreek (no posts)
Flying Eagles and HS, no discernible information from their posts
BraveSirRobin, haven't seen many posts from them.
Michi I could go either way on.
Scum Lean:
Hapi, something just doesn't sit well, I don't know.
Vroendal, they've been a bit too aggressive for my liking
Gerrick, his whole voting for Dawsinian then not unvoting once posting saying he didn't mean to start a wagon thing seems weird to me.
Scum Core: None yet
Scum Lock: None
With that in mind, I am going to Vote Lynch: Gerrick
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:13:34 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:15:02 AM
Here is my read:
Town Lock:
Myself (duh)
Dawsinian
Town Core:
Wischland
TGN/turtle, I remember feeling really confused as well my first WW game, and the sheer amount of posts probably isn't confusing them any less. If they were a Wolf, they would not be acting like this, because (presumably) the more experienced wolves would tell them what/how/when to post.
Town Lean:
Sapphiron
Laurentus
Gut feeling for both.
Null:
ogunbiyi6422, newvitalania, ENE, Dawcreek (no posts)
Flying Eagles and HS, no discernible information from their posts
BraveSirRobin, haven't seen many posts from them.
Michi I could go either way on.
Scum Lean:
Hapi, something just doesn't sit well, I don't know.
Vroendal, they've been a bit too aggressive for my liking
Gerrick, his whole voting for Dawsinian then not unvoting once posting saying he didn't mean to start a wagon thing seems weird to me.
Scum Core: None yet
Scum Lock: None
With that in mind, I am going to Vote Lynch: Gerrick
Hmm, I am curious why you'd classify Vro as aggressive.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 05:20:03 AM
One thing we haven't even discussed is that nobody died last night and how or why that might be so I'm gonna need some quick clarification don't kill anyone yet please
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:23:42 AM
Hey look my wagon has support.What are you expecting here? That a defender is just gonna come out and say "oh, hey, I protected this person?"
One thing we haven't even discussed is that nobody died last night and how or why that might be so I'm gonna need some quick clarification don't kill anyone yet please
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 05:25:29 AM
Hey look my wagon has support.What are you expecting here? That a defender is just gonna come out and say "oh, hey, I protected this person?"
One thing we haven't even discussed is that nobody died last night and how or why that might be so I'm gonna need some quick clarification don't kill anyone yet please
Maybe who knows though first I need clarification if someone could hypothetically say that
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:26:27 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:27:14 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 05:28:39 AM
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 05:32:34 AM
Vote: Vroendal. I don't buy his reasoning on making the Dawsinian wagon a majority. Why was he more confident in making the kill for Dawsinian over the other two, or rather make a four-way tie similarly to what I had done? Also, he's playing quite similarly to the Portal Werewolf game where he was a wolf. In that game, he also voted for a random, non-wagon player in such a circumstance as this.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:36:49 AM
Okay you asked me to trust you earlier I will ask you to trust me now. Don't kill Michi.Okay so here's my problem: I Towned Gerrick for the same reason you're asking me not to kill Michi.
Post by: Michi on December 11, 2020, 05:37:11 AM
Town Lean: HumanSanity, Gerrick, Dawsinian, DocFound something intriguing - Can you explain how did you categorise Sanity under "Town Lean" when most people are reading nothing much into people engaging in minimal activity? And a bit more explanation on Gerrick and Doc would be great.
Admittedly the choice on HS is a bit more of a meta thing here. I've played games with him in the past in XKI, and his posts along with the fact that he's usually busy with delegate stuff seems pretty in character for him as a townie so far.
Gerrick, I can see where he's coming from on his posts. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that his vote in the last phase was purely just to keep the tie going rather than voting for myself or Lau. Is it possible he's lying and playing a good game? Always, but I'm putting faith in him for now.
Doc, I'm more trusting Lau on this one since Lau is one of my town core people. He seems like he's putting faith in Doc being more of a town lean, so I'm following that for now, but it can always change depending on how things progress.
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 05:38:29 AM
Well, seeing as how I need to vote for either Vroendal or Michi to save myself... Hard choice, though, as both are among my scum-leans.I understand voting me to save yourself. However, I find it rather ironic that you would question my reason for voting Daws as opposed to forming another tie, as I had cited your reasons. I didn't want a tie bc that was still a chance of killing Lau/Michi. I would also like to remind you that in the Portal game I was purposefully setting myself up to be lynched, following my role. This is a new game and an entirely different situation.
Vote: Vroendal. I don't buy his reasoning on making the Dawsinian wagon a majority. Why was he more confident in making the kill for Dawsinian over the other two, or rather make a four-way tie similarly to what I had done? Also, he's playing quite similarly to the Portal Werewolf game where he was a wolf. In that game, he also voted for a random, non-wagon player in such a circumstance as this.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 05:39:25 AM
Okay so here's my problem: I Towned Gerrick for the same reason you're asking me not to kill Michi.Am I missing something here or are you guys literally discussing night actions or sharing mason-esque information
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 05:45:41 AM
Okay you asked me to trust you earlier I will ask you to trust me now. Don't kill Michi.Okay so here's my problem: I Towned Gerrick for the same reason you're asking me not to kill Michi.
Well I have been saying Gerrick is wolf.
Anyways. I could be lying I'm not saying I did anything I'm not breaking rules I'm just saying I have reason to be wary of killing Michi.
Ride into mordor with me as I would you.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 05:46:31 AM
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 05:49:24 AM
I understand voting me to save yourself. However, I find it rather ironic that you would question my reason for voting Daws as opposed to forming another tie, as I had cited your reasons. I didn't want a tie bc that was still a chance of killing Lau/Michi. I would also like to remind you that in the Portal game I was purposefully setting myself up to be lynched, following my role. This is a new game and an entirely different situation.I was confident enough in Dawsinian to put him as a 33% chance to die. You put him as 100% chance. I was nowhere near confident enough to do that, let alone put anyone at that, which is why I didn't vote Michi in that situation, although I was definitely thinking about it.
Also, why did you want to save both Laurentus and Michi that badly? I can understand Lau, but why Michi?
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:51:05 AM
I understand voting me to save yourself. However, I find it rather ironic that you would question my reason for voting Daws as opposed to forming another tie, as I had cited your reasons. I didn't want a tie bc that was still a chance of killing Lau/Michi. I would also like to remind you that in the Portal game I was purposefully setting myself up to be lynched, following my role. This is a new game and an entirely different situation.I was confident enough in Dawsinian to put him as a 33% chance to die. You put him as 100% chance. I was nowhere near confident enough to do that, let alone put anyone at that, which is why I didn't vote Michi in that situation, although I was definitely thinking about it.
Also, why did you want to save both Laurentus and Michi that badly? I can understand Lau, but why Michi?
Hang on a second. You specifically said yesterday that you didn't feel Vro was an confident as I was portraying him.
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 05:52:15 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 05:53:31 AM
I was confident enough in Dawsinian to put him as a 33% chance to die. You put him as 100% chance. I was nowhere near confident enough to do that, let alone put anyone at that, which is why I didn't vote Michi in that situation, although I was definitely thinking about it.I wasn't confident in his guilt at all, I just deemed it the necessary thing to do to minimize what seemed to me to be obvious damage to the town.
Also, why did you want to save both Laurentus and Michi that badly? I can understand Lau, but why Michi?
As I've stated before, I'm just really not feeling that Michi's guilty from the quality and frequency of his posts. I expect him to play a much more invested game as scum and frankly I have not observed anywhere near to the levels of that. I'm not completely discounting the possibility, just am finding it highly highly unlikely.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:54:14 AM
3) Hinting at information gained during night phases is allowed, revealing information is not. Both revealing and hinting roles is not allowed.
I would say Hapi has been on the wrong side of the stipulation for not hinting or revealing roles, if she is indeed Aragorn. So she's either not really Aragorn, or the mods are overlooking it.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:55:27 AM
Yes, but that's about Hapi. I mean the whole thing that's going on right now.Yeah, I'll admit that I skimmed over that back-and-forth between you and Vroendal since it didn't seem pertinent. Reading it back now, I can see what you mean, although I don't think Vro is going as hard in protecting Hapi as you're making it out to be -- perhaps reread that exchange. Vro just should have not said anything about not scanning Hapi this night phase because now there's a higher chance of a scan on her being blocked. There's a chance that it was because they're both wolves, but I think the likelihood of that is pretty low. Basically I think you're both misplacing your focus right now.
Gerrick, here.
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 05:56:32 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:58:20 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 05:59:12 AM
Ride with me into mordor. As I would you.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:00:33 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:02:09 AM
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 06:02:46 AM
I'm confident enough to do this lynch Gerrick if I'm wrong lynch me tomorrowWhat about being lynched side by side with a friend?
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 06:02:55 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:04:51 AM
I'm confident enough to do this lynch Gerrick if I'm wrong lynch me tomorrowWhat about being lynched side by side with a friend?
That could be fun how we pull that off
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:07:04 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 06:07:49 AM
Well, we're at an impasse, Hapi.Quite an intrusive impasse I would say. You are being extremely confident on Gerrick's town alignment, while my read on Hapi is going to shift her from Town Lean to Town Core soon.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:09:05 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 06:10:08 AM
I'm confident enough to do this lynch Gerrick if I'm wrong lynch me tomorrowYou are literally pulling the ultimatum card of "if not him then me" that I similarly did for Lumenland against the will of the rest of the Townies, I have no reason not to believe you until game mechanics prove me otherwise
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:11:11 AM
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 06:12:51 AM
To die along side an enemy of Gondor if it insured his death would be my greatest honorYou would die before your stroke fell.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:14:33 AM
I'm confident enough to do this lynch Gerrick if I'm wrong lynch me tomorrowYou are literally pulling the ultimatum card of "if not him then me" that I similarly did for Lumenland against the will of the rest of the Townies, I have no reason not to believe you until game mechanics prove me otherwise
I rarely ever pull serious Hapi in these games that should tell you something about how confident I am here.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 06:15:37 AM
Shit. I don't know who I trust enough to mason with me right now.Well I certainly did not expect such a direct clash to happen so early in the game
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:15:50 AM
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 06:16:16 AM
@Gerrick, will Aragorn follow in Isildur's steps?Unfortunately it appears so. A lament for Aragorn.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:16:55 AM
I wish I could give you more to go on Lau... truly.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:19:14 AM
Vote: Gerrick
Sorry, Gerrick. At this point your death will just get too much info.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 06:19:49 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 06:22:16 AM
I'm much more willing to go through with this than with Michi, and I'm still not getting WW vibes from Hapi. I would like to return to Willie at some point though.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:22:47 AM
I'm YOLOing it.
Vote: Gerrick
Sorry, Gerrick. At this point your death will just get too much info.
I've signed my own death certificate if I'm wrong
(https://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/37900000/Legolas-and-Aragorn-lord-of-the-rings-37983405-245-170.gif)
Hey Hapi, stay on track :P Don't just wander off your razor-focus path into quip on chaos
Well now that wouldn't be very Hapi of me would it lol
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:23:22 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 06:25:44 AM
If I'm wrong after my untimely demise kill Vro.Wait a minute, what? Your confidence came from you or a third party?
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:26:41 AM
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 06:26:48 AM
Hmm, at least I won't have to worry about not being able to respond while I'm at work over the weekend...
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:27:22 AM
Oh, Hapi, I really wish you hadn't led this bandwagon. But perhaps you being lynched will be for the good of the rest of the town with how chaotic you are (or if you really are scum).
Hmm, at least I won't have to worry about not being able to respond while I'm at work over the weekend...
I'm nothing if not helpful you know ^^
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 06:28:28 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:28:50 AM
If I'm wrong after my untimely demise kill Vro. Michi good maybe...
wut
Okay, I don't know how on earth you have doubt.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:31:37 AM
@Sapphiron halp.
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 06:32:30 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:33:32 AM
Yeah how would Aragorn be a seer?
Who says I'm aragorn?
:-\
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 06:34:14 AM
Yeah how would Aragorn be a seer?Well, going along that line I would not have expected Theoden to be a roleblocker either.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:35:02 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 06:36:08 AM
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 06:37:05 AM
Why not?Yeah how would Aragorn be a seer?Well, going along that line I would not have expected Theoden to be a roleblocker either.
Damn your chaotic nature, Hapi. :P Maybe getting out now will save me many headaches.Yeah how would Aragorn be a seer?Who says I'm aragorn?
:-\
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:37:22 AM
To be fair I've slowly become afraid Gerrick is actually Legolas but I'm going down with this ship so help me god.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:37:51 AM
Okay the only thing I can be confident of right now is my reading of Hapi as Town Core. I am not sure how to put my finger on how she is this confident of Gerrick being a Wolf but she is putting herself on the firing line for next day lynch which pushed me into this position right now.
Yeah, but you agree that it casts doubt on how much stock I should put on lynching Gerrick, don't you?
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:38:28 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 06:38:42 AM
Yeah, but you agree that it casts doubt on how much stock I should put on lynching Gerrick, don't you?Yep, that's the core issue now
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 06:40:34 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 06:41:01 AM
When I think of Theoden I think of a king and a warrior. I would have expected something like extra voting power from his kingly authority or a Defender role as a brave warrior.Well, going along that line I would not have expected Theoden to be a roleblocker either.Why not?
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:41:05 AM
Row row row this boat all the way to my demise...maybe...
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:41:31 AM
I am not lynching you until I can get some sort of hint from a Seer, Hapi, but I am not lynching Gerrick either.
I am lynching Michi. If Michi flips green, I am lynching Gerrick. If he flips green, I am lynching you!
I am now also forced to consider the possibility that I had my shit figured out to begin with, and that you're just a chaotic Wolf who is counting on me to perform the actions in this order, by Christ.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMIIIIITTTTTTTT
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:42:15 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:43:11 AM
@Laurentus Also important factor, how convinced are you that Gerrick is town-aligned?
I can't say how I got to this, and my reasoning could be wrong, but there's a 33.33% chance.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:43:28 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 06:43:44 AM
Nope.OR, or, *taps fingers together* we coouuuullld do something like lynch Willie. ;p
I am not lynching you until I can get some sort of hint from a Seer, Hapi, but I am not lynching Gerrick either.
I am lynching Michi. If Michi flips green, I am lynching Gerrick. If he flips green, I am lynching you!
I am now also forced to consider the possibility that I had my shit figured out to begin with, and that you're just a chaotic Wolf who is counting on me to perform the actions in this order, by Christ.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMIIIIITTTTTTTT
I still think it's a very valid guess to think that there's a WW among our guests, and from seeing that Willie has been more active than most of the others and has played WW before I don't think it's a bad idea to start with them.
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 06:44:31 AM
A shadow and a threat has been growing in my mind. Something draws near. I can feel it.
I am lynching Michi.Gotta bold your votes there, my dude.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:46:08 AM
I'm confident that Doc was right about me but serially kill Gerrick
You realise with how paranoid I am now, this draws even Doc's alignment into question with me? Seriously, just stop talking. I need time to think.
Post by: Gerrick on December 11, 2020, 06:46:51 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:47:17 AM
I'm confident that Doc was right about me but serially kill Gerrick
You realise with how paranoid I am now, this draws even Doc's alignment into question with me? Seriously, just stop talking. I need time to think.
That would be too easy though.
But in other news I really REALLY don't think it's Michi.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 06:48:55 AM
I can't say how I got to this, and my reasoning could be wrong, but there's a 33.33% chance.Okay as long as it isn't a mechanic clear but I am still quite concerned about how Hapi reached that conclusion
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:51:41 AM
Uhh...
Unvote: Gerrick for now
But it's not Michi. So I can't board that train so
Vote: Willie cause if Vro is right than that's intriguing and if Vro is wrong they die >:D
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:52:54 AM
Post by: Michi on December 11, 2020, 06:54:48 AM
Nope.OR, or, *taps fingers together* we coouuuullld do something like lynch Willie. ;p
I am not lynching you until I can get some sort of hint from a Seer, Hapi, but I am not lynching Gerrick either.
I am lynching Michi. If Michi flips green, I am lynching Gerrick. If he flips green, I am lynching you!
I am now also forced to consider the possibility that I had my shit figured out to begin with, and that you're just a chaotic Wolf who is counting on me to perform the actions in this order, by Christ.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMIIIIITTTTTTTT
I still think it's a very valid guess to think that there's a WW among our guests, and from seeing that Willie has been more active than most of the others and has played WW before I don't think it's a bad idea to start with them.
I do agree that we need to look at them closer as well since it's very likely at least one of them is a wolf.
After all, whatever happened to Wintreath Bros before XKI (insert rhyming word here)?
In all seriousness, I'm just feeling a bit conflicted. On the one side, people like Hapi and Gerrick are giving town vibes the more I read their posts (the serious ones). On the other side, I'm a bit split because of the excessive quoting and throwing at us that she could or couldn't be Aragorn just comes off as trying too hard to convince us when she very well could be a wolf.
I'm confident on my Vro vote, but I'm conflicted about the after, especially if, big shock, the person I voted for ended up flipping green because my luck in this game is usually terrible.
But at the very least, I'm glad I have someone I can talk to during these trying times.
Like anyone would want to talk to you.
I'm not listening to that. D:
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 06:55:19 AM
I think Gerrick is Legolas. But that scares me because that's MY gimmick and I'm lying maybe possibly. SoSweet. I feel much better about voting Gerrick than Michi and I feel much better voting Willie over Gerrick.
Uhh...
Unvote: Gerrick for now
But it's not Michi. So I can't board that train so
Vote: Willie cause if Vro is right than that's intriguing and if Vro is wrong they die >:D
(I am so so sorry Red. :p) Change Vote: Wille-Harlia
If I'm wrong I'll accept death with more understanding this time, still doesn't mean I agree with a vote on me though.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:55:27 AM
Who is your Lock-Town, and who is your Town Core? You may choose only one for each category? Daws does not apply for the moment.
My Lock-Town is BSR, and my Town Core is Gerrick.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 06:58:39 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 06:59:25 AM
Nope.OR, or, *taps fingers together* we coouuuullld do something like lynch Willie. ;p
I am not lynching you until I can get some sort of hint from a Seer, Hapi, but I am not lynching Gerrick either.
I am lynching Michi. If Michi flips green, I am lynching Gerrick. If he flips green, I am lynching you!
I am now also forced to consider the possibility that I had my shit figured out to begin with, and that you're just a chaotic Wolf who is counting on me to perform the actions in this order, by Christ.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMIIIIITTTTTTTT
I still think it's a very valid guess to think that there's a WW among our guests, and from seeing that Willie has been more active than most of the others and has played WW before I don't think it's a bad idea to start with them.
I do agree that we need to look at them closer as well since it's very likely at least one of them is a wolf.
After all, whatever happened to Wintreath Bros before XKI (insert rhyming word here)?
In all seriousness, I'm just feeling a bit conflicted. On the one side, people like Hapi and Gerrick are giving town vibes the more I read their posts (the serious ones). On the other side, I'm a bit split because of the excessive quoting and throwing at us that she could or couldn't be Aragorn just comes off as trying too hard to convince us when she very well could be a wolf.
I'm confident on my Vro vote, but I'm conflicted about the after, especially if, big shock, the person I voted for ended up flipping green because my luck in this game is usually terrible.
But at the very least, I'm glad I have someone I can talk to during these trying times.
Like anyone would want to talk to you.
I'm not listening to that. D:
Hey Michi I'm always here in these trying times <3 I will be your shield.
Okay, okay, wait, I think I have a way to solve our problem here, Hapi:
Who is your Lock-Town, and who is your Town Core? You may choose only one for each category? Daws does not apply for the moment.
My Lock-Town is BSR, and my Town Core is Gerrick.
Remind me what these mean :))
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 06:59:56 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 07:00:31 AM
Don't just suddenly throw the entire wagon out all of a sudden, can we try to re-consolidate our thoughts and impressions first
I'm scared I dun wanna die I'm just a fragile thing.
Or this is all a play and has been all along.
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 07:01:46 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 07:02:27 AM
I'm scared I dun wanna die I'm just a fragile thing.I love when Hapi's in these games, she spices it up so much. ^-^
Or this is all a play and has been all along.
That being said if I find out you've been playing me I will have strong words. ;)
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 07:03:10 AM
Nope.OR, or, *taps fingers together* we coouuuullld do something like lynch Willie. ;p
I am not lynching you until I can get some sort of hint from a Seer, Hapi, but I am not lynching Gerrick either.
I am lynching Michi. If Michi flips green, I am lynching Gerrick. If he flips green, I am lynching you!
I am now also forced to consider the possibility that I had my shit figured out to begin with, and that you're just a chaotic Wolf who is counting on me to perform the actions in this order, by Christ.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMIIIIITTTTTTTT
I still think it's a very valid guess to think that there's a WW among our guests, and from seeing that Willie has been more active than most of the others and has played WW before I don't think it's a bad idea to start with them.
I do agree that we need to look at them closer as well since it's very likely at least one of them is a wolf.
After all, whatever happened to Wintreath Bros before XKI (insert rhyming word here)?
In all seriousness, I'm just feeling a bit conflicted. On the one side, people like Hapi and Gerrick are giving town vibes the more I read their posts (the serious ones). On the other side, I'm a bit split because of the excessive quoting and throwing at us that she could or couldn't be Aragorn just comes off as trying too hard to convince us when she very well could be a wolf.
I'm confident on my Vro vote, but I'm conflicted about the after, especially if, big shock, the person I voted for ended up flipping green because my luck in this game is usually terrible.
But at the very least, I'm glad I have someone I can talk to during these trying times.
Like anyone would want to talk to you.
I'm not listening to that. D:
Hey Michi I'm always here in these trying times <3 I will be your shield.Okay, okay, wait, I think I have a way to solve our problem here, Hapi:
Who is your Lock-Town, and who is your Town Core? You may choose only one for each category? Daws does not apply for the moment.
My Lock-Town is BSR, and my Town Core is Gerrick.
Remind me what these mean :))
Here: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154040#msg154040
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 07:07:00 AM
Vroendal - 3 (Dawsinian, Michi, Gerrick)
Gerrick - 3 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Wille-Harlia)
Wille-Harlia - 2 (Hapi, Vroendal)
Michi - 1 (Doc)
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 07:07:42 AM
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 07:10:07 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 07:11:50 AM
Also, random, potential mod overstep here, but @Vroendal you're talking about an XKI member who's very active. Are you talking about Wille-Harlia or Wischland? If you are, ignore this, but I'm just wondering as the names can be confusing.I think from the context that in the post you're thinking of I was talking about Wille. I see Wisch as an active member as well, but I feel more confident about their innocence.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 07:13:48 AM
There will be no more free passes today.
I want everyone to make a reads list, and it should be constructed as follows:
1. Lock-town at the top. Lock-town, for those unfamiliar with the term, refers to someone you can mechanically clear as Town. These are the Townies who will never be in anyone's PoE (or Process of Elimination) ever, either because a confirmed Seer has declared them as such, or some other game mechanic, like a resurrection, has brought back a confirmed dead Townie.
2. Town core. These are the people you have the most overwhelming Townie vibes for, either because of really good votes that led to scum dying, or the Towniest thought process in the game.
3. Town-leans. These are the people you've either gut-read, or have found some plausible evidence for, but people who are not quite as cut-and-dried as the Town core.
4. Nulls. All the people which you don't have enough info for yet, to make a determination about whether they are part of either alignment.
5. Scum-leans. Like Town-leans, but acummier.
6. Just good old fashioned, rotten-to-the-core scum. These are the people with the scummiest motivations and actions, such as voting patterns. They are the scum equivalent of the Town core.
7. Lock-scum. People mechanically revealed as being scum. The people you just throw onto the pyre and forget about.
Just for you bb.
1. Michi
2. Sapph
3. BSR, turtle, TGN, Lau
4. Wischland, Willie, Newvitalania, Human Sanity, Hapi >:D, Gerrick now..., Eagle!!, ENE, Doc, Daws, and Daw
5. Moot, Vro, Ogun
6.
7. Gerrick b4 he scared me
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 07:17:16 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 07:17:47 AM
There will be no more free passes today.
I want everyone to make a reads list, and it should be constructed as follows:
1. Lock-town at the top. Lock-town, for those unfamiliar with the term, refers to someone you can mechanically clear as Town. These are the Townies who will never be in anyone's PoE (or Process of Elimination) ever, either because a confirmed Seer has declared them as such, or some other game mechanic, like a resurrection, has brought back a confirmed dead Townie.
2. Town core. These are the people you have the most overwhelming Townie vibes for, either because of really good votes that led to scum dying, or the Towniest thought process in the game.
3. Town-leans. These are the people you've either gut-read, or have found some plausible evidence for, but people who are not quite as cut-and-dried as the Town core.
4. Nulls. All the people which you don't have enough info for yet, to make a determination about whether they are part of either alignment.
5. Scum-leans. Like Town-leans, but acummier.
6. Just good old fashioned, rotten-to-the-core scum. These are the people with the scummiest motivations and actions, such as voting patterns. They are the scum equivalent of the Town core.
7. Lock-scum. People mechanically revealed as being scum. The people you just throw onto the pyre and forget about.
Just for you bb.
1. Michi
2. Sapph
3. BSR, turtle, TGN, Lau
4. Wischland, Willie, Newvitalania, Human Sanity, Hapi >:D, Gerrick now..., Eagle!!, ENE, Doc, Daws, and Daw
5. Moot, Vro, Ogun
6.
7. Gerrick b4 he scared me
I am very specifically asking you not to give me your full reads list, but only your Lock-Town and Town Core reads, and then only one of each of these.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 07:21:19 AM
Ahh fuck it
I'm lock town
Sapph town core hapi
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 07:21:57 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 07:22:14 AM
Well see now there was one of each but I don't really have a lock town anymore
Ahh fuck it
I'm lock town
Sapph town core hapi
Where did Michi go suddenly?
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 07:23:39 AM
Post by: Michi on December 11, 2020, 07:26:11 AM
Well see now there was one of each but I don't really have a lock town anymore
Ahh fuck it
I'm lock town
Sapph town core hapi
Where did Michi go suddenly?
Story of my life. I didn't make Sapph's list either. :))
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 07:26:55 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 07:28:55 AM
Well see now there was one of each but I don't really have a lock town anymore
Ahh fuck it
I'm lock town
Sapph town core hapi
Where did Michi go suddenly?
Still there you just demanded one of each ;) I trust sapph quote a bit right now
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 07:30:51 AM
Still willing to bet my life on at least half that.
Did all it take to switch me off my own wagon was vague references to Legolas?
Also yes.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 07:31:50 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 07:36:38 AM
All will be revealed in time. Am I doing all of this based on something yes.... yes I am there's a play here. Will it work...dunno because at this point I mightve out played myself.
Post by: Michi on December 11, 2020, 07:38:11 AM
We're 28 pages in (maybe 29 by the time this posts), and nobody...nobody has referenced this old gem.
You might as well all be followers of Sauron for not posting this earlier.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 07:39:04 AM
Here are my last thoughts for now: Hapi makes no sense.
My Lock-Town is BSR, Dawsinian and me.
My Town Core is Gerrick and Sapphiron, and Sapphiron is here because her observations have been razor-sharp recently, and if she was a Wolf, she would not have picked up on Hapi's inconsistencies if they are both Wolves. More on Hapi lower down the list, though.
My Town lean is Vro, because of how genuine he sounded when he said he felt betrayed by Michi.
My Scum leans are now Michi and Hapi, because if what I thought was happening with Hapi was actually happening, then that Town Core and Lock-Town list would have made a lot more sense. I suspect this is now all being done with the intent to save herself and Michi, and derail the thread in general with this chaotic insanity.
Everyone else is in my nulls, as of right now.
Have fun guys. I am signing off until at least a few hours from now.
And to @Sapphiron, it's mechanical, although it is not strong mechanical stuff.
To @Adorable Oracle Hapi, if it were mechanical, then he would have been either in your lock-town or your Town Core.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 07:43:32 AM
My main concern is Hapi did all these to save Pengu, instead of solid proof of Gerrick’s guilt, which would end up imploding if Gerrick flips green.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 07:46:39 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 07:50:50 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 07:53:27 AM
And I still don't trust Gerrick but I can't die and Gerrick scared me.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 07:59:40 AM
What if I only care about one person and my whole life goal has been dedicated to their survival :-\Yeah I suspected as much, I don’t distrust the fact that you are Town but I don’t like how you pulled all of us through loops to protect your “Cupid’s Lover” where either survival is necessary for the other’s victory condition. What if Pengu is wolf-aligned, while Gerrick flips green, then we are killing 2 townies simultaneously to preserve your win condition ... it’s the same way I dealt with Aragonn’s demands during the Portal game, no.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 08:02:12 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 08:05:16 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 08:05:35 AM
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 08:06:39 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 08:08:29 AM
Okay, guys, I'll be stright. I have no goddamned clue who the scum are.Welcome to my world. :3
Now, how do you feel about voting Willie? (All <3 btw Willie, I just am feeling the vibes)
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 08:09:13 AM
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 08:10:00 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 08:10:57 AM
Hapi did that. Fuck you kindly, Hapi.
I was about to say this lol.
In other news. Your welcome. O:-)
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 08:11:28 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 08:12:02 AM
Lol, on second thought that comment might be interpreted the wrong way and might affect people's judgments too much.Well it did get to me ...
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 08:12:42 AM
How do we end this day now. ???
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 08:13:15 AM
Well it did get to me ...I have no idea of your interpretation, but don't assume anything. :P
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 08:14:26 AM
Honestly I want this day to end cause tomorrow's gonna be even funner for you all.We still have 36 hours fam.
How do we end this day now. ???
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 08:14:50 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 08:16:12 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 08:18:00 AM
Like, at this point I'm worried the Wolves have just been inactive and thus did not submit a night kill.I don't think that's anything to be worried about. :p If they were inactive anything not to submit a kill, arguably the most fun part of being a wolf, I'm holding high hopes that potential modkills might clear a few things up for us.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 08:18:16 AM
Honestly I want this day to end cause tomorrow's gonna be even funner for you all.We still have 36 hours fam.
How do we end this day now. ???
Well shit
Post by: Michi on December 11, 2020, 08:21:55 AM
I think we are getting somewhere substantial though, once we identify and cut the red herring out
Odd, I don't recall bringing back La Hareng Rouge for this game. ???
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 08:35:38 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/J7nywmM/236ee382fdf16973567dc3bb44c21b51.gif)
Her name is Arwen.
:-\
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 08:51:45 AM
All this is to say: Don't listen to a goddamned word Hapi says, lol.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 09:37:33 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 09:38:19 AM
Post by: TGN on December 11, 2020, 12:41:22 PM
Here is my read:
Town Lock:
Myself (duh)
Dawsinian
Town Core:
Wischland
TGN/turtle, I remember feeling really confused as well my first WW game, and the sheer amount of posts probably isn't confusing them any less. If they were a Wolf, they would not be acting like this, because (presumably) the more experienced wolves would tell them what/how/when to post.
Town Lean:
Sapphiron
Laurentus
Gut feeling for both.
Null:
ogunbiyi6422, newvitalania, ENE, Dawcreek (no posts)
Flying Eagles and HS, no discernible information from their posts
BraveSirRobin, haven't seen many posts from them.
Michi I could go either way on.
Scum Lean:
Hapi, something just doesn't sit well, I don't know.
Vroendal, they've been a bit too aggressive for my liking
Gerrick, his whole voting for Dawsinian then not unvoting once posting saying he didn't mean to start a wagon thing seems weird to me.
Scum Core: None yet
Scum Lock: None
With that in mind, I am going to Vote Lynch: Gerrick
So, I'm going to share my reads list in its current form. Understand that this is my first game. I'm not going off of how people have played previous games or whatever, I'm going off of mainly gut feeling.the list makes everything MUCH more clear, please do more. makes me happy :)Spoiler(https://i.imgur.com/WplVoCm.png)
Shit. I don't know who I trust enough to mason with me right now.who is mason?
LOL, this is fucking amazing. I wish I was participating. I also just had to go through like ten pages for the vote count (fuck you all).you are a hero
(https://i.ibb.co/TMHrjG2/tumblr-inline-o9a7cf3s-RJ1u9o3v9-500.gif)I don't think you're going to get voted out
Row row row this boat all the way to my demise...maybe...
The current vote count is:god just... cool it for today, it's a Friday I get off of school at 3:00 and if I see 5+ pages I'm going to scream.
Vroendal - 3 (Dawsinian, Michi, Gerrick)
Gerrick - 3 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Wille-Harlia)
Wille-Harlia - 2 (Hapi, Vroendal)
Michi - 1 (Doc)
also, shout out to @Michi and someone else I forgot the name of for making all those long posts and NOT making my morning full of words, sorry test info take these werewolf posts.
Vroendal, there was a LOT of info against Vro and @Gerrick but I just have a gut feeling it's Vro.
GO WITH YOUR GUT!!!
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 11, 2020, 12:49:09 PM
OR, or, *taps fingers together* we coouuuullld do something like lynch Willie. ;pRoles are assigned randomly, no?
I still think it's a very valid guess to think that there's a WW among our guests
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 12:49:48 PM
Anyway, mason (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mason) is basically a group of players who can speak to each other privately
Roles are assigned randomly, no?I would believe so, I think he's pointing more towards statistical possibility
Post by: TGN on December 11, 2020, 12:53:51 PM
... gut?AH makes sense
Anyway, mason (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mason) is basically a group of players who can speak to each other privatelyRoles are assigned randomly, no?I would believe so, I think he's pointing more towards statistical possibility
and yes
G U T
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 03:23:46 PM
... gut?AH makes sense
Anyway, mason (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mason) is basically a group of players who can speak to each other privatelyRoles are assigned randomly, no?I would believe so, I think he's pointing more towards statistical possibility
and yesG U T
You're going to have to explain your thought process to me here. Why is Vro suspicious?
Post by: TGN on December 11, 2020, 04:06:01 PM
did you not see that proof against him, I think Michi said it... gut?AH makes sense
Anyway, mason (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mason) is basically a group of players who can speak to each other privatelyRoles are assigned randomly, no?I would believe so, I think he's pointing more towards statistical possibility
and yesG U T
You're going to have to explain your thought process to me here. Why is Vro suspicious?
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 04:07:56 PM
did you not see that proof against him, I think Michi said it... gut?AH makes sense
Anyway, mason (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mason) is basically a group of players who can speak to each other privatelyRoles are assigned randomly, no?I would believe so, I think he's pointing more towards statistical possibility
and yesG U T
You're going to have to explain your thought process to me here. Why is Vro suspicious?
Which post that Michi made and why is it convincing?
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 04:09:52 PM
Vroendal, there was a LOT of info against Vro and @Gerrick but I just have a gut feeling it's Vro.Alrightie TGN, since this is your gut specifically I have to convince, I shall make my appeal specifically to you.
GO WITH YOUR GUT!!!
First point of defense - Would this face be an evil person? :wave:
Second pod - Ooga booga shamalama ding dong, also I have cookies
Third pod - If you read the posts I've made, they've been created with genuine town motivations, I don't know what specifically I setting you off but I'm making my best effort here. My post against Michi was at least in my opinion a very strong post that really kinda shattered his complete case against me, but maybe I'm just biased.
And to @Flying Eagles and @Sapphiron my vote is motivated partly by statistical possibility but mostly from the fact that I'm not reading anyone who's been talking a lot as scum, though I am willing to vote Gerrick out of self-preservation, I'm still rather unsure of him as I've stated. To me, I think that at least the majority of the wolves will be found among the lurkers.
To @Laurentus specifically but also everyone else while honestly at this point I would be fine with and understand the motivation behind lynching me if just for information and to remove the doubt from everyone's mind to focus on those who need to be focused on, I would much rather remain alive, as I am far more useful that way. Lau I've been approaching the game as I have for a reason, I never seem to shut up do I? XD
Post by: TGN on December 11, 2020, 04:18:55 PM
UNVOTEVroendal, there was a LOT of info against Vro and @Gerrick but I just have a gut feeling it's Vro.Alrightie TGN, since this is your gut specifically I have to convince, I shall make my appeal specifically to you.
GO WITH YOUR GUT!!!
First point of defense - Would this face be an evil person? :wave:
Second pod - Ooga booga shamalama ding dong, also I have cookies
Third pod - If you read the posts I've made, they've been created with genuine town motivations, I don't know what specifically I setting you off but I'm making my best effort here. My post against Michi was at least in my opinion a very strong post that really kinda shattered his complete case against me, but maybe I'm just biased.
And to @Flying Eagles and @Sapphiron my vote is motivated partly by statistical possibility but mostly from the fact that I'm not reading anyone who's been talking a lot as scum, though I am willing to vote Gerrick out of self-preservation, I'm still rather unsure of him as I've stated. To me, I think that at least the majority of the wolves will be found among the lurkers.
To @Laurentus specifically but also everyone else while honestly at this point I would be fine with and understand the motivation behind lynching me if just for information and to remove the doubt from everyone's mind to focus on those who need to be focused on, I would much rather remain alive, as I am far more useful that way. Lau I've been approaching the game as I have for a reason, I never seem to shut up do I? XD
Vote Gerrick
I want cook..
I mean new information has come to light :)
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 04:24:29 PM
UNVOTEVroendal, there was a LOT of info against Vro and @Gerrick but I just have a gut feeling it's Vro.Alrightie TGN, since this is your gut specifically I have to convince, I shall make my appeal specifically to you.
GO WITH YOUR GUT!!!
First point of defense - Would this face be an evil person? :wave:
Second pod - Ooga booga shamalama ding dong, also I have cookies
Third pod - If you read the posts I've made, they've been created with genuine town motivations, I don't know what specifically I setting you off but I'm making my best effort here. My post against Michi was at least in my opinion a very strong post that really kinda shattered his complete case against me, but maybe I'm just biased.
And to @Flying Eagles and @Sapphiron my vote is motivated partly by statistical possibility but mostly from the fact that I'm not reading anyone who's been talking a lot as scum, though I am willing to vote Gerrick out of self-preservation, I'm still rather unsure of him as I've stated. To me, I think that at least the majority of the wolves will be found among the lurkers.
To @Laurentus specifically but also everyone else while honestly at this point I would be fine with and understand the motivation behind lynching me if just for information and to remove the doubt from everyone's mind to focus on those who need to be focused on, I would much rather remain alive, as I am far more useful that way. Lau I've been approaching the game as I have for a reason, I never seem to shut up do I? XD
Vote Gerrick
I want cook..
I mean new information has come to light :)
No, I can't anymore.
You are literally just placing your votes on any place you can find it and hoping for the best.
This is probably monstrous, but vote: TGN because not even attempting to explain your general thought process and just jumping from one wagon to the next might not be inherently scummy, but it's sure as hell anti-town, and since this morning's shenaniganry with Hapi has just generally left me without any clue who the scum might be, this vote is going to have to do.
Post by: TGN on December 11, 2020, 04:25:18 PM
understandable :|UNVOTEVroendal, there was a LOT of info against Vro and @Gerrick but I just have a gut feeling it's Vro.Alrightie TGN, since this is your gut specifically I have to convince, I shall make my appeal specifically to you.
GO WITH YOUR GUT!!!
First point of defense - Would this face be an evil person? :wave:
Second pod - Ooga booga shamalama ding dong, also I have cookies
Third pod - If you read the posts I've made, they've been created with genuine town motivations, I don't know what specifically I setting you off but I'm making my best effort here. My post against Michi was at least in my opinion a very strong post that really kinda shattered his complete case against me, but maybe I'm just biased.
And to @Flying Eagles and @Sapphiron my vote is motivated partly by statistical possibility but mostly from the fact that I'm not reading anyone who's been talking a lot as scum, though I am willing to vote Gerrick out of self-preservation, I'm still rather unsure of him as I've stated. To me, I think that at least the majority of the wolves will be found among the lurkers.
To @Laurentus specifically but also everyone else while honestly at this point I would be fine with and understand the motivation behind lynching me if just for information and to remove the doubt from everyone's mind to focus on those who need to be focused on, I would much rather remain alive, as I am far more useful that way. Lau I've been approaching the game as I have for a reason, I never seem to shut up do I? XD
Vote Gerrick
I want cook..
I mean new information has come to light :)
No, I can't anymore.
You are literally just placing your votes on any place you can find it and hoping for the best.
This is probably monstrous, but vote: TGN because not even attempting to explain your general thought process and just jumping from one wagon to the next might not be inherently scummy, but it's sure as hell anti-town, and since this morning's shenaniganry with Hapi has just generally left me without any clue who the scum might be, this vote is going to have to do.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 04:28:26 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 04:30:47 PM
Uhm this is bad. At this point even if Vro is lynched, it’s going to be tough filtering out the relevant information deduced.I'm open to suggestions.
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 04:31:06 PM
No, I can't anymore.Anti-town or not, the chaotical aspect doesn't stem from a purposeful gamestyle like Hapi. (Sorry if mentioning this is out of line:) If you check the RMB you will find a personality that really aligns with the way TGN has been playing. I'm so confident in his innocence right now that I would put him in Town Core. Nothing about him is saying scum to me. Maybe I've just become like the all-time worst WW player in Wintreath but that's just what I think.
You are literally just placing your votes on any place you can find it and hoping for the best.
This is probably monstrous, but vote: TGN because not even attempting to explain your general thought process and just jumping from one wagon to the next might not be inherently scummy, but it's sure as hell anti-town, and since this morning's shenaniganry with Hapi has just generally left me without any clue who the scum might be, this vote is going to have to do.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 04:32:42 PM
No, I can't anymore.Anti-town or not, the chaotical aspect doesn't stem from a purposeful gamestyle like Hapi. (Sorry if mentioning this is out of line:) If you check the RMB you will find a personality that really aligns with the way TGN has been playing. I'm so confident in his innocence right now that I would put him in Town Core. Nothing about him is saying scum to me. Maybe I've just become like the all-time worst WW player in Wintreath but that's just what I think.
You are literally just placing your votes on any place you can find it and hoping for the best.
This is probably monstrous, but vote: TGN because not even attempting to explain your general thought process and just jumping from one wagon to the next might not be inherently scummy, but it's sure as hell anti-town, and since this morning's shenaniganry with Hapi has just generally left me without any clue who the scum might be, this vote is going to have to do.
Who is actually suspicious to you?
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 04:35:08 PM
Anti-town or not, the chaotical aspect doesn't stem from a purposeful gamestyle like Hapi. (Sorry if mentioning this is out of line:) If you check the RMB you will find a personality that really aligns with the way TGN has been playing. I'm so confident in his innocence right now that I would put him in Town Core. Nothing about him is saying scum to me. Maybe I've just become like the all-time worst WW player in Wintreath but that's just what I think.He EDITED his post to include a ":|" face! XD What scum does that beginner or not, if he's a beginner and he's so carefree there really isn't a doubt in my mind.
What I've been saying is that I'm not finding a lot of people suspicious, leading me to believe that it's those I have not been able to observe and that are lurking, as I would expect many scum to do, to be evil. I'm still split on Gerrick, I'm fine with a lynch there. I don't know what Moot's deal is, I would even be fine with a lynch there. Willie is the one I'm gunning for right now, seems like the best choice. The last one I have no idea.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 04:39:38 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 04:40:02 PM
And why is Willie your best choice?
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 04:41:09 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 04:43:48 PM
Also, no, I'm not going to be lulled into accepting age and inexperience as an excuse anymore. TGN insisted that he was gut-reading Vro as scum, and stuck to that explanation when confronted by Sapph, too. Yet when I prodded a short while later, he just handwaved it away and said Michi explained it clearly in his post. And then he just flopped right off that when Vro... did something. I don't even know what I'm looking at.Willie is my best choice because he wasn't mentioned as being on the chopping block for mod kills, has played WW before and is more likely to strategize on leaving me to be lynched, has been somewhat active though not posting on a region that isn't his own (cheap shot I know but I don't see who else fits better), and has offered up nothing much in terms of votes or opinions.
And why is Willie your best choice?
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 04:45:09 PM
I'm trying to kill me some dirty ring snatchers or something ye filthy hobbitses.Okay the first time you switched quotes, you went straight to Sméagol-Gollum? Lau do you want to test out the theory by lynching Michi, or any scumread atm?
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 04:48:18 PM
vote: Michi
I've been looking at that quote, and the earlier implied one from Michi too, and it just rubs me wrong, but I can't articulate why for shit.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 04:49:29 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 04:51:52 PM
Nope.OR, or, *taps fingers together* we coouuuullld do something like lynch Willie. ;p
I am not lynching you until I can get some sort of hint from a Seer, Hapi, but I am not lynching Gerrick either.
I am lynching Michi. If Michi flips green, I am lynching Gerrick. If he flips green, I am lynching you!
I am now also forced to consider the possibility that I had my shit figured out to begin with, and that you're just a chaotic Wolf who is counting on me to perform the actions in this order, by Christ.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMIIIIITTTTTTTT
I still think it's a very valid guess to think that there's a WW among our guests, and from seeing that Willie has been more active than most of the others and has played WW before I don't think it's a bad idea to start with them.
I do agree that we need to look at them closer as well since it's very likely at least one of them is a wolf.
After all, whatever happened to Wintreath Bros before XKI (insert rhyming word here)?
In all seriousness, I'm just feeling a bit conflicted. On the one side, people like Hapi and Gerrick are giving town vibes the more I read their posts (the serious ones). On the other side, I'm a bit split because of the excessive quoting and throwing at us that she could or couldn't be Aragorn just comes off as trying too hard to convince us when she very well could be a wolf.
I'm confident on my Vro vote, but I'm conflicted about the after, especially if, big shock, the person I voted for ended up flipping green because my luck in this game is usually terrible.
But at the very least, I'm glad I have someone I can talk to during these trying times.
Like anyone would want to talk to you.
I'm not listening to that. D:
Specifically that one.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 04:52:47 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 04:53:24 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 04:56:54 PM
The current vote count is:
Vroendal - 3 (Dawsinian, Michi, Gerrick)
Gerrick - 3 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Wille-Harlia)
Wille-Harlia - 2 (Hapi, Vroendal)
Michi - 1 (Doc)
UNVOTE
Vote Gerrick
I want cook..
I mean new information has come to light :)
If I'm reading what's happened without missing anything, there is -
Gerrick 1 (Willie)
Vro - 3 (Daws, Michi, Gerrick)
Michi - 3 (Doc, Lau, Sapph)
Willie - 2 (Vro, Hapi)
I'm sorry Michi if you do turn out to be town, but I'm really being swayed by the argument that you're unaligned at least, and if one of your goals is to kill me I can't allow that. I want to survive.
Change Vote: Michi
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 04:57:01 PM
Gollum: (talking to himself) And if he looses, what then?
Gollum: Well precious, if he looses, then we eats it! (giggles)
Gollum: (Turns to Bilbo) - If Baggins looses, we eats it all.
Bilbo: Fair enough...
Sounds like Gollum to me
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 04:58:43 PM
If I'm reading what's happened without missing anything, there is -Somehow despite quoting it I still forgot to put another vote for Gerrick from TGN. -_-
Gerrick 1 (Willie)
Vro - 3 (Daws, Michi, Gerrick)
Michi - 3 (Doc, Lau, Sapph)
Willie - 2 (Vro, Hapi)
Gerrick - 2 (Willie, TGN)*
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:05:09 PM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 05:07:53 PM
I honestly don’t think both are unaligned, since Mones specifically said 16 Fellowship and 4 Sauron’s Forces. Which is why I am convinced by the theory that Hapi is town-aligned Smeagol and Michi is Wolf-aligned Gollum
Post by: Dawsinian on December 11, 2020, 05:11:06 PM
That or they managed to circumvent a role hint / reveal because they are acting on what you and I are pushing onto them.
I honestly don’t think both are unaligned, since Mones specifically said 16 Fellowship and 4 Sauron’s Forces. Which is why I am convinced by the theory that Hapi is town-aligned Smeagol and Michi is Wolf-aligned Gollum
There are 4 members of Sauron's forces.
Good luck, and have fun!
Actually he just said there are 4 members of Sauron's forces, unless I'm missing somewhere else where he stared how many townies there are.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 05:12:23 PM
Of course this opens up a can of worms whether there is a third unaligned faction but Cupid’s Lovers generally fit into traditional alignments of Town and Wolf, rather than alone
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:12:35 PM
(Also thank god my Lock-town is back)
Sapp, read it here for yourself.
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg153737#msg153737
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 05:12:58 PM
That or they managed to circumvent a role hint / reveal because they are acting on what you and I are pushing onto them.I'm still swayed a bit by the unaligned argument because I don't see anywhere RM has said the number of players in the Fellowship, only that there are 4 wolves in the OP. I could see where you're going with the split team though, if I had to hazard a guess Michi's goal (as Gollum) is to get a character, whether Frodo or Bilbo idk, killed and he might be thinking it's me? Idk where his confidence in my vote is coming from, it just seems so unlike him to make that kind of mistake. So you're probably right...
I honestly don’t think both are unaligned, since Mones specifically said 16 Fellowship and 4 Sauron’s Forces. Which is why I am convinced by the theory that Hapi is town-aligned Smeagol and Michi is Wolf-aligned Gollum
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:14:05 PM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 05:16:54 PM
Under Rule 3, both revealing and hinting roles is not allowed.
Is “roles” defined by its characteristic (defend, resurrect, kill) or its name (Gollum, Aragonn, Gandalf)? Which hinting is permissible and which isn’t.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 11, 2020, 05:20:09 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:22:50 PM
Post by: Michi on December 11, 2020, 05:54:35 PM
Well, I don't blame you for going after me, I would too. I don't have nor need a partner though, I'm just fine on my own. But you do what you must I suppose, and I respect that choice.
Don't lie, you're upset and want friends because you hate being alone.
Leave me alone! I just want to enjoy a game without you being so mean to me. ;-;
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:55:31 PM
Nope.OR, or, *taps fingers together* we coouuuullld do something like lynch Willie. ;p
I am not lynching you until I can get some sort of hint from a Seer, Hapi, but I am not lynching Gerrick either.
I am lynching Michi. If Michi flips green, I am lynching Gerrick. If he flips green, I am lynching you!
I am now also forced to consider the possibility that I had my shit figured out to begin with, and that you're just a chaotic Wolf who is counting on me to perform the actions in this order, by Christ.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMIIIIITTTTTTTT
I still think it's a very valid guess to think that there's a WW among our guests, and from seeing that Willie has been more active than most of the others and has played WW before I don't think it's a bad idea to start with them.
I do agree that we need to look at them closer as well since it's very likely at least one of them is a wolf.
After all, whatever happened to Wintreath Bros before XKI (insert rhyming word here)?
In all seriousness, I'm just feeling a bit conflicted. On the one side, people like Hapi and Gerrick are giving town vibes the more I read their posts (the serious ones). On the other side, I'm a bit split because of the excessive quoting and throwing at us that she could or couldn't be Aragorn just comes off as trying too hard to convince us when she very well could be a wolf.
I'm confident on my Vro vote, but I'm conflicted about the after, especially if, big shock, the person I voted for ended up flipping green because my luck in this game is usually terrible.
But at the very least, I'm glad I have someone I can talk to during these trying times.
Like anyone would want to talk to you.
I'm not listening to that. D:
Actually, the more I look at this, the more I do not like what I see at all. He's still saying he's confident about his Vro vote, and yet he leaves himself a backdoor in case it goes screwy and Vro is actually green.
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 05:56:47 PM
Post by: Michi on December 11, 2020, 05:59:47 PM
Yeah, Michi old chummy-chum, you were quite happy to have that rope of friendship with Hapi until it became a noose, eh?
I mean, how many times did I say i town lean her, but I wouldn't be surprised if she was doing the quotes thing to manipulate us as a wolf?
Who cares what you say? You're nothing. You're so much nothing that people actually believe you're actually with someone because you can't do anything on your own!
*cries*
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 11, 2020, 08:44:51 PM
Also, @Eastern New England and @ogunbiyi6422 need to vote today to not be mod-killed come night phase.
Yeah, ok, Had to read through 20 pages cause yall :D post a lot.
I am not particularly good at werewolf and find it hard to jump into the conversation, I'm also bad at not noticing people's different behaviors. However, I do agree with Vro in that I doubt the wolf is TGN, he seems to just be voting based on what the next person says, I don't think he legitimately "suses" someone but just goes with what the next person says. If you notice the way he is on the RMB, and the fact that this is his first game, I think his "erratic" nature may just be because he doesn't want to get killed off, so he's trying to go with what will make him less sus, unfortunately its making him more suspicious.
Because of that, I think that if Vro was scum he wouldn't be defending him as he would want us to kill off a townie, so its not in his best interest but (unless of course they are both scum which would complicate things), I think my logic may not be the best but thats all I've got.
I'm going to also go and contradict my argument and say that I guess you could say that TGN's erratic voting may be because he is panicking and doesn't want to get caught, but I think Vro's theory is better.
Not that I'm not jumping on the bandwagon as well, but I will vote Michi, he is giving some "my precious" vibes, but of course I hope to see more convincing arguments and discussion.
~~ I apologize for editing posts as I realize thats against the rules but I just saw that hinting at roles is against the rules so I wouldn't want to mess the game up~~
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 08:57:19 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 09:09:27 PM
Michi - 4 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal)
Vroendal - 3 (Dawsinian, Michi, Gerrick)
Wille-Harlia - 1 (Hapi)
Gerrick - 1 (Wille-Harlia)
Post by: Red Mones on December 11, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
Post by: Wischland on December 11, 2020, 09:45:32 PM
Town Lock: Me
Town Core:
~ Laurentus - Very townie vibes, lots of logical arguments made with the clear intention of finding wolves. Their frequent requests that everyone explain their logic seem to apply to everyone, which suggests to me that they're doing their best to ensure we get as much information as possible
~ TGN and turtle - give the strong impression of being new players who are overwhelmed by everything. If they were wolves I imagine they'd be clinging very closely to the more experienced wolves and doing exactly what they're told, instead of fumbling about for any threads they can grasp
~ Sapphiron - Every argument seems very rational. Although they were quiet at first, they're increasing levels of activity as we get more information suggests to me that they were not operating with outside knowledge and are only now beginning to form arguments as their knowledge has increased
Town Lean:
~ Vroendal - Some fumbles with their arguments, but most of it was still very logical, and seemed genuine. They've given me the impression that they've been trying to find the wolves as well, and have shown a willingness to go against and work with the people I think are town. Plus people I think are more scum-leaning were fine voting for Vro. Still put Vro just in town lean because there have been some inconsistencies in their arguments and their recent attempts to place continuous focus on Wille-Harlia seem a bit out of place given recent relevations
~ HumanSanity - This is based a lot of outside knowledge, so it's only a slight lean. HS is prone to be very chatty and make a ton of arguments. The fact that he isn't makes me think that he views this game as lower priority then the other things he's keeping busy with (which is fair). But if he were a wolf, I think he'd be more automatically invested in the game since he has a team and a clearer goal, and would thus be posting more. That's not the case, so I'm getting a bit of a town lean.
~ FlyingEagles - This one may also seem a bit odd, but my thoughts here are based on FE's activity levels. FE was very quiet throughout D1, with a noticeable increase in activity on D2. It just doesn't make a ton of sense for a wolf to have such a sudden change in activity since that's bound to draw attention. Since FE's arguments have been somewhat iffy, they also seem to be unguided. FE is pretty new, and I believe he's only played one or two games before this, as town. His posts strike me as similar to those instances which makes me think he's more town-leaning.
~ Dawsinian - Really could go either way for me, since we don't know who resurrected them. I'm kinda concerned over their list of people's suspected alignments cause it was a weird mix of Michi's and Lau's lists. However, Lau seems very confident that Daws is town so I will put my faith in that, for now at least.
Nulls:
~ Hapi - Oh Hapi. What to say on Hapi. Although they are chaotic and somewhat headache-inducing, the Smeogal/Gollum theory has potential. It explains Hapi's fixation on saving Michi especially in recent posts. I don't think Hapi is scum, since that doesn't make much sense in the context of the theory, and because they've become of the recent vote Gerrick/don't vote Gerrick thing. It doesn't make sense for a wolf to flip-flop on their own bandwagon like that, unless they were neutral or a misguided town.
~ Eastern New England, newvitalania - Silent. Can't really make any judgments here. ENE is normally quiet but also consistently votes. Possibly just didn't want to vote D1 as he was unsure who to vote for, so I'm interested to see if he'll pop in for a D2 vote.
~ Dawcreek - Ermmm...I really got nothing here. I feel like they've posted, but I can't remember anything about it. Is this kind of lurking normal? Could someone fill me in on that?
Scum Lean:
~ Ogunbiyi - Posted briefly in the beginning then vanished without a trace. I remember reading somewhere that they were new (correct me if I'm wrong) and that seems like strange behavior for a newbie. It's possible they've received instructions from more experienced wolves to lay low.
~ Gerrick - I'm seeing a mismatch in Gerrick's words and actions. I believe it was Vro that pointed out how Gerrick sought to create a tie in D1, but didn't step in again when that tie ended up becoming a bandwagon on Dawsinian. Now they're going after Vro (unless I missed a post somewhere) even though they said both Michi and Vro were they're scum leans, and Vro doesn't really strike me as a wolf. Also Lau said Gerrick was part of his town core (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154246#msg154246) but also voted for him a few hours back according to this vote count: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154254#msg154254. So that's kinda funky, not sure what to think of it yet.
Scum Core:
Scum Lock:
Anyway, I know I'm missing a bunch of people, but I'm gonna be working for the next 5 hours and just wanted to get this out there before that. I'll come back and finish up with everyone else, possibly clarify some arguments, and respond to stuff once I'm off work. Sorry about that!
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 10:08:26 PM
You guys really go too fast for me, but hopefully I'll be able to sort through my thoughts and actually type out this post before some major new info is revealed and the tide of the vote changes again. Let's see now
Town Lock: Me
Town Core:
~ Laurentus - Very townie vibes, lots of logical arguments made with the clear intention of finding wolves. Their frequent requests that everyone explain their logic seem to apply to everyone, which suggests to me that they're doing their best to ensure we get as much information as possible
~ TGN and turtle - give the strong impression of being new players who are overwhelmed by everything. If they were wolves I imagine they'd be clinging very closely to the more experienced wolves and doing exactly what they're told, instead of fumbling about for any threads they can grasp
~ Sapphiron - Every argument seems very rational. Although they were quiet at first, they're increasing levels of activity as we get more information suggests to me that they were not operating with outside knowledge and are only now beginning to form arguments as their knowledge has increased
Town Lean:
~ Vroendal - Some fumbles with their arguments, but most of it was still very logical, and seemed genuine. They've given me the impression that they've been trying to find the wolves as well, and have shown a willingness to go against and work with the people I think are town. Plus people I think are more scum-leaning were fine voting for Vro. Still put Vro just in town lean because there have been some inconsistencies in their arguments and their recent attempts to place continuous focus on Wille-Harlia seem a bit out of place given recent relevations
~ HumanSanity - This is based a lot of outside knowledge, so it's only a slight lean. HS is prone to be very chatty and make a ton of arguments. The fact that he isn't makes me think that he views this game as lower priority then the other things he's keeping busy with (which is fair). But if he were a wolf, I think he'd be more automatically invested in the game since he has a team and a clearer goal, and would thus be posting more. That's not the case, so I'm getting a bit of a town lean.
~ FlyingEagles - This one may also seem a bit odd, but my thoughts here are based on FE's activity levels. FE was very quiet throughout D1, with a noticeable increase in activity on D2. It just doesn't make a ton of sense for a wolf to have such a sudden change in activity since that's bound to draw attention. Since FE's arguments have been somewhat iffy, they also seem to be unguided. FE is pretty new, and I believe he's only played one or two games before this, as town. His posts strike me as similar to those instances which makes me think he's more town-leaning.
~ Dawsinian - Really could go either way for me, since we don't know who resurrected them. I'm kinda concerned over their list of people's suspected alignments cause it was a weird mix of Michi's and Lau's lists. However, Lau seems very confident that Daws is town so I will put my faith in that, for now at least.
Nulls:
~ Hapi - Oh Hapi. What to say on Hapi. Although they are chaotic and somewhat headache-inducing, the Smeogal/Gollum theory has potential. It explains Hapi's fixation on saving Michi especially in recent posts. I don't think Hapi is scum, since that doesn't make much sense in the context of the theory, and because they've become of the recent vote Gerrick/don't vote Gerrick thing. It doesn't make sense for a wolf to flip-flop on their own bandwagon like that, unless they were neutral or a misguided town.
~ Eastern New England, newvitalania - Silent. Can't really make any judgments here. ENE is normally quiet but also consistently votes. Possibly just didn't want to vote D1 as he was unsure who to vote for, so I'm interested to see if he'll pop in for a D2 vote.
~ Dawcreek - Ermmm...I really got nothing here. I feel like they've posted, but I can't remember anything about it. Is this kind of lurking normal? Could someone fill me in on that?
Scum Lean:
~ Ogunbiyi - Posted briefly in the beginning then vanished without a trace. I remember reading somewhere that they were new (correct me if I'm wrong) and that seems like strange behavior for a newbie. It's possible they've received instructions from more experienced wolves to lay low.
~ Gerrick - I'm seeing a mismatch in Gerrick's words and actions. I believe it was Vro that pointed out how Gerrick sought to create a tie in D1, but didn't step in again when that tie ended up becoming a bandwagon on Dawsinian. Now they're going after Vro (unless I missed a post somewhere) even though they said both Michi and Vro were they're scum leans, and Vro doesn't really strike me as a wolf. Also Lau said Gerrick was part of his town core (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154246#msg154246) but also voted for him a few hours back according to this vote count: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154254#msg154254. So that's kinda funky, not sure what to think of it yet.
Scum Core:
Scum Lock:
Anyway, I know I'm missing a bunch of people, but I'm gonna be working for the next 5 hours and just wanted to get this out there before that. I'll come back and finish up with everyone else, possibly clarify some arguments, and respond to stuff once I'm off work. Sorry about that!
I could give you the short version, but I could also let you read through the whole mess again yourself, and see what you have to say. Start here (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154168#msg154168) and end here (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154298#msg154298).
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 11:09:01 PM
So, roles. This one I'm gonna have to chalk up to first-time hosting. I really didn't think about it being an issue, and didn't really clarify because of it. It started out as characters who had roles (example: Theoden is a roleblocker), but then as the game became more complex and roles were added that weren't defined (afaik) roles, I changed it so that the characters were the roles (example: Dawsinian has the role of Theoden), and then each role had an ability (example: the Theoden role has the ability to block night actions, there is technically no roleblocker role, if that makes sense). This is why I put "roleblocker" in quotations when Dawsianian had died. He's technically not a roleblocker, but the action is literally the same, and I added the roleblocker definition as people needed a straightforward definition of roles that were/will be lost. Other complex roles will manifest themselves in other ways, so to speak. I don't know if this is understandable at all, but yeah that's what went on in my head when Ruguo and I were planning. Because of this confusion, there likely will be no enforcement of character (role) hinting, so don't assume anything based on this post or my enforcement or non-enforcement of the rule.
To be fair when I read that rule I just read it as you may not outright say I am this character. Or speak about your abilities. But that giving people breadcrumbs and letting them figure things out on their own would be okay especially since I could easily be lying right I've never said who I was.
Anyways Michi is smeagol maybe I'm definitely not unless I am. Gerrick might be Legolas unless he's not. Have I created a hell where everyone hints roles thru quotes yeah...yeah I did.
At this point I think we as town are making a grave mistake.
unvote
Vote: Vro
This is the only way I can see to maybe possibly keep smeagol alive and I donut think he's evil.
There is still hope...he needs time.
Post by: Vroendal on December 11, 2020, 11:14:36 PM
Anyways Michi is smeagol maybe I'm definitely not unless I am. Gerrick might be Legolas unless he's not. Have I created a hell where everyone hints roles thru quotes yeah...yeah I did.I'm gonna go and say that this feels like an outright lie to me in a last ditch attempt to save Michi. Ofc perhaps I'm biased at this point but it feels like the only thing you could do here anyway so I'm not gonna put too much stock it in. You can't say that Michi is Smeagol when we're assuming that one of you is not the same alignment as the other. Because then that leaves YOU as Gollum, and you're saying "we as town" :p So which is it Hapi? Which of you is Smeagol? My thoughts are that Gollum has a goal to kill a townie, your goal (as Smeagol in all likelihood) is to keep Michi alive. Gollum is unaligned/wolf, while Smeagol is town/unaligned.
At this point I think we as town are making a grave mistake.
unvote
Vote: Vro
This is the only way I can see to maybe possibly keep smeagol alive and I donut think he's evil.
There is still hope...he needs time.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 11:24:58 PM
Anyways Michi is smeagol maybe I'm definitely not unless I am. Gerrick might be Legolas unless he's not. Have I created a hell where everyone hints roles thru quotes yeah...yeah I did.I'm gonna go and say that this feels like an outright lie to me in a last ditch attempt to save Michi. Ofc perhaps I'm biased at this point but it feels like the only thing you could do here anyway so I'm not gonna put too much stock it in. You can't say that Michi is Smeagol when we're assuming that one of you is not the same alignment as the other. Because then that leaves YOU as Gollum, and you're saying "we as town" :p So which is it Hapi? Which of you is Smeagol? My thoughts are that Gollum has a goal to kill a townie, your goal (as Smeagol in all likelihood) is to keep Michi alive. Gollum is unaligned/wolf, while Smeagol is town/unaligned.
At this point I think we as town are making a grave mistake.
unvote
Vote: Vro
This is the only way I can see to maybe possibly keep smeagol alive and I donut think he's evil.
There is still hope...he needs time.
Oh I thought it was abundantly clear that I'm not what you think I am anymore.
Unless I am.
My precious is not a ring. Likely not even a player. O.o'
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 11:29:11 PM
I'll just be honest now in saying that my reasons for trusting Michi may well be flawed. They may well be a mistake.
But I THINK there is a reason nobody died last night and I KNOW that nobody will die at night as long as I stand.
So again I will be your shield and my sword is yours let's ride into mordor together and slay the forces of Sauron.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 11:30:19 PM
I got my thoughts mixed up
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 11:54:21 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 11, 2020, 11:55:52 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 11, 2020, 11:59:49 PM
Post by: turtle on December 12, 2020, 12:10:17 AM
Post by: TGN on December 12, 2020, 12:14:24 AM
Laurentus I would like to point out ignoring someone no matter what is quite a strange choice not saying anything just pointing it out.yeah its strange but not sus, if it was sus I would change my vote but Hapi has been posting a lot so I can see why, but strange, not sus.
Post by: Red Mones on December 12, 2020, 01:39:18 AM
Michi - 4 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal)
Vroendal - 4 (Dawsinian, Michi, Gerrick, Hapi)
Gerrick - 1 (Wille-Harlia)
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 01:42:02 AM
With Hapi's vote change, The current vote count is:
Michi - 4 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal)
Vroendal - 4 (Dawsinian, Michi, Gerrick, Hapi)
Gerrick - 1 (Wille-Harlia)
Does ogun's vote not count? He did put it in bold.
Also, @Eastern New England and @ogunbiyi6422 need to vote today to not be mod-killed come night phase.Not that I'm not jumping on the bandwagon as well, but I will vote Michi, he is giving some "my precious" vibes, but of course I hope to see more convincing arguments and discussion.
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 12, 2020, 01:57:35 AM
~ Ogunbiyi - Posted briefly in the beginning then vanished without a trace. I remember reading somewhere that they were new (correct me if I'm wrong) and that seems like strange behavior for a newbie. It's possible they've received instructions from more experienced wolves to lay low.Did you read my most previous post, I think I clarified everything as I went through over 20 pages of text, this is my second time playing but I think you should read my post above, if that isn't town lean, I don't know what to tell you
Post by: Red Mones on December 12, 2020, 02:27:36 AM
Michi - 5 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal, Ogunbiyi)
Vroendal - 4 (Dawsinian, Michi, Gerrick, Hapi)
Gerrick - 1 (Wille-Harlia)
Post by: Gerrick on December 12, 2020, 02:42:13 AM
Michi - 5 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal, Ogunbiyi)Perhaps against my better judgment... I have a second vote against me from TGN.
Vroendal - 4 (Dawsinian, Michi, Gerrick, Hapi)
Gerrick - 1 (Wille-Harlia)
---
Yeah, I'm not really buying the whole Hapi/Michi are Smeagol/Gollum thing. I'm thinking Hapi defended Michi (or some other action) last night phase, and she's saying she's certain Michi is not scum because there was no wolf kill. Her justification is very shaky -- just as her justification was against me earlier... -- so I'm going to say just because Hapi is likely town does not in any way mean Michi is. I'm guessing he is an unaligned Smeagol/Gollum if we are to take his character hints as true. If that is the case, it might be a waste to lynch him, although I'm by no means against him getting lynched. If there is a possible upside to his role, there is just as likely a possible downside.
Post by: TGN on December 12, 2020, 02:47:43 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 02:50:33 AM
nvmAre you saying that you wish to unvote Gerrick? If so please specify in bold just to make it easier for Red. :)
If not, what is "nvm" about?
Post by: TGN on December 12, 2020, 02:53:36 AM
I said "Does my vote not count" then I realized @Gerrick said it so I put NVMnvmAre you saying that you wish to unvote Gerrick? If so please specify in bold just to make it easier for Red. :)
If not, what is "nvm" about?
Post by: Red Mones on December 12, 2020, 03:20:17 AM
The current vote count is:
Michi - 5 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal, Ogunbiyi)
Vroendal - 4 (Dawsinian, Michi, Gerrick, Hapi)
Gerrick - 2 (Wille-Harlia, TGN)
Post by: Wischland on December 12, 2020, 03:34:31 AM
I could give you the short version, but I could also let you read through the whole mess again yourself, and see what you have to say. Start here (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154168#msg154168) and end here (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154298#msg154298).Not really sure what this is supposed to mean. I've already read it twice. I can only assume that I've missed something you've caught onto to, in which case I doubt reading it again will do me any good.
Did you read my most previous post, I think I clarified everything as I went through over 20 pages of text, this is my second time playing but I think you should read my post above, if that isn't town lean, I don't know what to tell youAt the time that I had made my rough list, no, you had posted while I was typing. I will take your post into consideration as I keep thinking about everything.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:43:24 AM
I could give you the short version, but I could also let you read through the whole mess again yourself, and see what you have to say. Start here (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154168#msg154168) and end here (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154298#msg154298).Not really sure what this is supposed to mean. I've already read it twice. I can only assume that I've missed something you've caught onto to, in which case I doubt reading it again will do me any good.Did you read my most previous post, I think I clarified everything as I went through over 20 pages of text, this is my second time playing but I think you should read my post above, if that isn't town lean, I don't know what to tell youAt the time that I had made my rough list, no, you had posted while I was typing. I will take your post into consideration as I keep thinking about everything.
I am never going to speculate on people's roles openly, but Hapi claimed to have mechanical reason to believe Michi is innocent, and would rather have killed Gerrick. I have mechanical reason to believe Gerrick is innocent, though. It became a question of who's is stronger. When Hapi pulled the ultimatum that he was so sure of Michi's innocence and Gerrick's guilt that she'd be willing to sacrifice herself, I had to figure out if Hapi's mechanical reason was stronger than mine. The only way to test that would have been to vote Gerrick off.
I'll say it upfront: there is probably a 1/3 chance that Gerrick is innocent if this game has a typical setup of Town roles. There is just no good way to test it.
I probably can't look at the situation objectively here, and the fact that so many people have Gerrick as a scum lean is definitely worrying me, but Michi's willingness to go along with our speculation that they're mechanically tied with Hapi for most of the round early on makes me uncomfortable.
Also @Gerrick, I am rather surprised you're openly speculating about Hapi's role openly. That is distinct anti-town behaviour.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:58:25 AM
What if I only care about one person and my whole life goal has been dedicated to their survival :-\
Also this. I know it's Hapi, and Hapi lies, but this screams a win-condition link between Michi and Hapi.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 07:13:59 AM
We should probably leave both Michi and Gerrick alive and let the Seer do their work.
What other lynches are there to consider?
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 07:45:02 AM
Come to think, we're doing this wrong.You know what I'm gonna say. :p Willie for my aforementioned reasons. Weak though they may be, they're the best I'm getting out of all this.
We should probably leave both Michi and Gerrick alive and let the Seer do their work.
What other lynches are there to consider?
Another possible option might be Moot, though I would much prefer to have had more time to discuss that, and to hear from him. We have roughly 12 hours left.
The last option is still me should you wish to go for it and consider it the best choice, I wouldn't be mad, just very disappointed.
Post by: Michi on December 12, 2020, 09:58:51 AM
I probably can't look at the situation objectively here, and the fact that so many people have Gerrick as a scum lean is definitely worrying me, but Michi's willingness to go along with our speculation that they're mechanically tied with Hapi for most of the round early on makes me uncomfortable.
You know how much I dislike when you put words in my mouth.
Not only have I never stated that I'm willing to go along with your speculation that Hapi and I are mechanically tied together, but I've actually said that we're not.
Quote
I don't have nor need a partner though, I'm just fine on my own. But you do what you must I suppose, and I respect that choice.
Quote
Who cares what you say? You're nothing. You're so much nothing that people actually believe you're actually with someone because you can't do anything on your own!
Actually I've said it twice, and I'll say it again: No, I'm not linked/tied to anyone in any way whatsoever, so please stop saying that I'm "willing to go along with it" when I've said nothing of the sort outside of dual-voicing some of my posts.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 10:50:17 AM
I probably can't look at the situation objectively here, and the fact that so many people have Gerrick as a scum lean is definitely worrying me, but Michi's willingness to go along with our speculation that they're mechanically tied with Hapi for most of the round early on makes me uncomfortable.
You know how much I dislike when you put words in my mouth.
Not only have I never stated that I'm willing to go along with your speculation that Hapi and I are mechanically tied together, but I've actually said that we're not.QuoteI don't have nor need a partner though, I'm just fine on my own. But you do what you must I suppose, and I respect that choice.QuoteWho cares what you say? You're nothing. You're so much nothing that people actually believe you're actually with someone because you can't do anything on your own!
Actually I've said it twice, and I'll say it again: No, I'm not linked/tied to anyone in any way whatsoever, so please stop saying that I'm "willing to go along with it" when I've said nothing of the sort outside of dual-voicing some of my posts.
How exactly to you explain Sapph's certainty that Hapi is Town?
That first quote you're mentioning was well after we began speculating that your roles were tied.
As to your second quote, I would think that if someone were falsely claiming to be linked with you, you would make it much clearer to everyone that Hapi was straight up lying than a cryptic RP post.
Post by: Gerrick on December 12, 2020, 10:59:19 AM
Also @Gerrick, I am rather surprised you're openly speculating about Hapi's role openly. That is distinct anti-town behaviour.I'm not speculating what Hapi's role is, just that she has a role. How else would she mechanically know someone's alignment?
How exactly to you explain Sapph's certainty that Hapi is Town?Hapi hasn't claimed to be tied to Michi, just to someone AFAIK. She just claims that she mechanically knows he's not scum (which I'm not certain of). It's still possible that she is Town in this situation. It's possible that she does not have contact with the player she's tied to, but if that player dies then she does.
That first quote you're mentioning was well after we began speculating that your roles were tied.
As to your second quote, I would think that if someone were falsely claiming to be linked with you, you would make it much clearer to everyone that Hapi was straight up lying than a cryptic RP post.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 11:04:32 AM
Michi - 5 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal, Ogunbiyi)Perhaps against my better judgment... I have a second vote against me from TGN.
Vroendal - 4 (Dawsinian, Michi, Gerrick, Hapi)
Gerrick - 1 (Wille-Harlia)
---
Yeah, I'm not really buying the whole Hapi/Michi are Smeagol/Gollum thing. I'm thinking Hapi defended Michi (or some other action) last night phase, and she's saying she's certain Michi is not scum because there was no wolf kill. Her justification is very shaky -- just as her justification was against me earlier... -- so I'm going to say just because Hapi is likely town does not in any way mean Michi is. I'm guessing he is an unaligned Smeagol/Gollum if we are to take his character hints as true. If that is the case, it might be a waste to lynch him, although I'm by no means against him getting lynched. If there is a possible upside to his role, there is just as likely a possible downside.
At the risk of drawing more attention to the point, Gerrick, I would characterise that as speculation.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 11:19:52 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 11:38:18 AM
So, roles. This one I'm gonna have to chalk up to first-time hosting. I really didn't think about it being an issue, and didn't really clarify because of it. It started out as characters who had roles (example: Theoden is a roleblocker), but then as the game became more complex and roles were added that weren't defined (afaik) roles, I changed it so that the characters were the roles (example: Dawsinian has the role of Theoden), and then each role had an ability (example: the Theoden role has the ability to block night actions, there is technically no roleblocker role, if that makes sense). This is why I put "roleblocker" in quotations when Dawsianian had died. He's technically not a roleblocker, but the action is literally the same, and I added the roleblocker definition as people needed a straightforward definition of roles that were/will be lost. Other complex roles will manifest themselves in other ways, so to speak. I don't know if this is understandable at all, but yeah that's what went on in my head when Ruguo and I were planning. Because of this confusion, there likely will be no enforcement of character (role) hinting, so don't assume anything based on this post or my enforcement or non-enforcement of the rule.
Okay, so there is a strategy that we could actually employ here to make this a guaranteed win for Town: I could demand everyone to hint at their roles, and whoever isn't fellowship would just lose. Duplicates would lose pretty quickly, too, because then our process of elimination is just going to be for 8 people, instead of 20.
Since that is no fun, I will urge everyone not to do this, and stick to the original stipulation of "don't hint at roles."
Post by: Wintermoot on December 12, 2020, 12:13:12 PM
Vroendal
Vro was the person that pushed Dawsinian out of a tie and into a lynch last round, and seems to have a thing for casting suspicion on a lot of people...for which he's been defending himself for most of the round. He says he did it because he felt Daws was more suspicious than than Laurentus or Michi...he could be a villager that honestly feels that way. To be fair, I also felt at the time that Daws was more suspicious along with Sapphiron. On the other hand, he could be a wolf that was looking to protect either Laurentus or Michi, the latter of whom is now under suspicion of being a wolf.
But at this point I don't think I can vote for someone based solely on their actions on the first day. I think at that point we were all grasping at straws. If Michi turns out to be a wolf, then perhaps I will keep the fact that Vro protected him in mind, but for now he just looks who has a tendency to make himself look suspicious. :P
Hapi
Hapi seems more into sowing chaos into the game than helping one side or the other, to the point that it looks like Gerrick has implied that lynching her would be good for the town regardless of which side she's on. She's strongly and consistently going out of her way to defend Michi, and to a lesser extent throwing suspicion at Gerrick.
More recent posts have called into question why that is, and while Sapphiron is confident that Hapi is town, I'm not sure what inspires that confidence. Even if the roles people assume they have are correct, which seems to be speculation based on Hapi's own implication (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154276#msg154276) (didn't everyone think she was Aragorn yesterday?), why couldn't Hapi be wolf-aligned and Michi be town-aligned? And if this is all true, where was Hapi during the period Michi was either in the lead or tied yesterday? Making a lone vote for Doc, it seems.
At this point, I'm not sure whether considering her posts does more good than harm.
Laurentus
Laurentus believes Gerrick is town, but would apparently still lynch him anyways if it would yield information. Even before the idea that Michi may be a wolf role tied to Hapi, Laurentus voted for him as a second wagon apparently for "wagonomics" (before changing his vote to Gerrick, then back to Michi). I'm concerned by his apparent willingness to sacrifice people for game mechanics, including someone he believes strongly enough to be town to defend. However, this may just be a more cutthroat playstyle adopted from playing games at Mafia Universe. He seems to be doing his utmost to figure things out, but as I implied to Flying Eagles yesterday, it's hard to tell if this is for good or for evil. An excellent player, either way. :P
Michi
Since he's up for a vote, I'll mention my thoughts on him too...to be honest, I'm not sure what makes him so suspicious to people, other than that people believe he's the wolf yin to Hapi's yang (that seems to be what started the bandwagon at least), he weak reasoning for voting for Vro, and the fact that he hasn't been as active as some people think he would be if he was town. His weak, confident yet not really confident vote for Vro is probably the most suspicious thing, and if push came to shove I feel he's more suspicious than Vro at this point...but I don't understand why those who have voted for him feel so confident about it. It makes me wonder if I've missed something.
In any case, I'll also mention that I believe turtle and TGN to be town...being new players, they would probably be better guided by their teammates if they were wolves. I think TGN is playing the game the best he can, and I think the fact that he's trying to put the time and thought to read all these posts and contribute to the game as a new, young player is very commendable. I like that he's willing to put himself out there and isn't afraid of looking bad. :) I also consider Daws town unless it's proven otherwise, if only because I think that's the more likely than him being revived as a wolf and maybe because I'm desperate to simplify the game somehow.
In any case, I'll read what happens when I wake up and then cast a vote. Even though we're reaching the end of the day, the situation still seems pretty fluid, and these are just my thoughts right now after spending my entire night going through this stuff. v_v
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 01:26:56 PM
I don't know what to make of this round, to be honest. I think for me personally the issue is that there's a few players that are so active that they're drowning everyone else out, and I also think that's why it feels to some like they didn't hear enough from me before. But the round has largely revolved around their posts, so I'll start there. :P
Vroendal
Vro was the person that pushed Dawsinian out of a tie and into a lynch last round, and seems to have a thing for casting suspicion on a lot of people...for which he's been defending himself for most of the round. He says he did it because he felt Daws was more suspicious than than Laurentus or Michi...he could be a villager that honestly feels that way. To be fair, I also felt at the time that Daws was more suspicious along with Sapphiron. On the other hand, he could be a wolf that was looking to protect either Laurentus or Michi, the latter of whom is now under suspicion of being a wolf.
But at this point I don't think I can vote for someone based solely on their actions on the first day. I think at that point we were all grasping at straws. If Michi turns out to be a wolf, then perhaps I will keep the fact that Vro protected him in mind, but for now he just looks who has a tendency to make himself look suspicious. :P
Hapi
Hapi seems more into sowing chaos into the game than helping one side or the other, to the point that it looks like Gerrick has implied that lynching her would be good for the town regardless of which side she's on. She's strongly and consistently going out of her way to defend Michi, and to a lesser extent throwing suspicion at Gerrick.
More recent posts have called into question why that is, and while Sapphiron is confident that Hapi is town, I'm not sure what inspires that confidence. Even if the roles people assume they have are correct, which seems to be speculation based on Hapi's own implication (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154276#msg154276) (didn't everyone think she was Aragorn yesterday?), why couldn't Hapi be wolf-aligned and Michi be town-aligned? And if this is all true, where was Hapi during the period Michi was either in the lead or tied yesterday? Making a lone vote for Doc, it seems.
At this point, I'm not sure whether considering her posts does more good than harm.
Laurentus
Laurentus believes Gerrick is town, but would apparently still lynch him anyways if it would yield information. Even before the idea that Michi may be a wolf role tied to Hapi, Laurentus voted for him as a second wagon apparently for "wagonomics" (before changing his vote to Gerrick, then back to Michi). I'm concerned by his apparent willingness to sacrifice people for game mechanics, including someone he believes strongly enough to be town to defend. However, this may just be a more cutthroat playstyle adopted from playing games at Mafia Universe. He seems to be doing his utmost to figure things out, but as I implied to Flying Eagles yesterday, it's hard to tell if this is for good or for evil. An excellent player, either way. :P
Michi
Since he's up for a vote, I'll mention my thoughts on him too...to be honest, I'm not sure what makes him so suspicious to people, other than that people believe he's the wolf yin to Hapi's yang (that seems to be what started the bandwagon at least), he weak reasoning for voting for Vro, and the fact that he hasn't been as active as some people think he would be if he was town. His weak, confident yet not really confident vote for Vro is probably the most suspicious thing, and if push came to shove I feel he's more suspicious than Vro at this point...but I don't understand why those who have voted for him feel so confident about it. It makes me wonder if I've missed something.
In any case, I'll also mention that I believe turtle and TGN to be town...being new players, they would probably be better guided by their teammates if they were wolves. I think TGN is playing the game the best he can, and I think the fact that he's trying to put the time and thought to read all these posts and contribute to the game as a new, young player is very commendable. I like that he's willing to put himself out there and isn't afraid of looking bad. :) I also consider Daws town unless it's proven otherwise, if only because I think that's the more likely than him being revived as a wolf and maybe because I'm desperate to simplify the game somehow.
In any case, I'll read what happens when I wake up and then cast a vote. Even though we're reaching the end of the day, the situation still seems pretty fluid, and these are just my thoughts right now after spending my entire night going through this stuff. v_v
Hmm, I find it interesting that you have not provided your take on Gerrick. I'm actually struggling to read him this game.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 02:07:12 PM
Vote: Vroendal
I tone-read you as Town based on your reaction to Pengu, but there's just so much at play here. I want to keep both Pengu and Gerrick alive, and hopefully the Seer can sort out this mess for us.
I also don't really want to go the route of "let's lynch the inactives" until the situation becomes more dire.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 12, 2020, 02:26:45 PM
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 12, 2020, 02:28:41 PM
@RedMones May we please have a vote count?Also, does anyone know how I mention people on this forum?
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 02:30:03 PM
You just @someone
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 02:31:02 PM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 12, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Okay, I've had some time to think about what my strategy for this mess of a game is gonna be, and I'm sad to say you won't like the conclusion, @Vroendal.Wait Lau why? You tone-read Vro as Town but you rather lynch him, while hoping that the Seer will spend the next 2 night phases checking Pengu and Gerrick?
Vote: Vroendal
I tone-read you as Town based on your reaction to Pengu, but there's just so much at play here. I want to keep both Pengu and Gerrick alive, and hopefully the Seer can sort out this mess for us.
Post by: Michi on December 12, 2020, 03:01:34 PM
Okay, I've had some time to think about what my strategy for this mess of a game is gonna be, and I'm sad to say you won't like the conclusion, @Vroendal.
Vote: Vroendal
I tone-read you as Town based on your reaction to Pengu, but there's just so much at play here. I want to keep both Pengu and Gerrick alive, and hopefully the Seer can sort out this mess for us.
I also don't really want to go the route of "let's lynch the inactives" until the situation becomes more dire.
I feel like there's something wrong with that statement. You don't want to lynch an inactive even if they could just be lurky wolves, and you don't want to lynch Gerrick or I despite you being iffy about us so you can have the seer scan us...so you're choosing to sacrifice someone that you tone-read as town? What? ???
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 12, 2020, 03:19:22 PM
That makes sense, sorry for the confusion!I could give you the short version, but I could also let you read through the whole mess again yourself, and see what you have to say. Start here (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154168#msg154168) and end here (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154298#msg154298).Not really sure what this is supposed to mean. I've already read it twice. I can only assume that I've missed something you've caught onto to, in which case I doubt reading it again will do me any good.Did you read my most previous post, I think I clarified everything as I went through over 20 pages of text, this is my second time playing but I think you should read my post above, if that isn't town lean, I don't know what to tell youAt the time that I had made my rough list, no, you had posted while I was typing. I will take your post into consideration as I keep thinking about everything.
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 12, 2020, 03:24:26 PM
Okay, I've had some time to think about what my strategy for this mess of a game is gonna be, and I'm sad to say you won't like the conclusion, @Vroendal.
Vote: Vroendal
I tone-read you as Town based on your reaction to Pengu, but there's just so much at play here. I want to keep both Pengu and Gerrick alive, and hopefully the Seer can sort out this mess for us.
I also don't really want to go the route of "let's lynch the inactives" until the situation becomes more dire.
I don't really get this logic, because by voting Vro you are making this a tie and protecting Michi, which makes you a little suspicious, so why would you vote if you claimed he is Town based? If anything, voting Michi out and then using the seer to check Gerrick or yourself would be much better if "so much is at stake."
Post by: Eastern New England on December 12, 2020, 03:33:09 PM
It seems like I'm rather late to the game, my apologies.
I'll hurry up and get my vote in before phase ends, but first I'll go backread the thread.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 04:03:50 PM
We need to get Pengu and Gerrick sorted. I firmly believe one of the two got targeted in the previous night phase, but as of this moment, it's impossible to tell which. Even if all we find are two extra people to get put in the Lock-town, that also means it's two fewer people we need to place, and we can get a more accurate process of elimination.
I really can't expand more than this. Even saying this much puts me very close to the limits of the rules.
The other possibility I've been worried about, which has been the one that makes me give Gerrick a 1/3 chance of being cleared instead of 1/2, is that the Wolves simply didn't decide to kill, but this seems very unlikely.
Both are also highly skilled and dangerous Wolves, so if that's what's found, cool, we can remove them.
Also to Pengu, I will take possible mechanical clears over tone-based clears any day.
Looking back at the idea, it probably is a bad move to let it be Vro, but my thought process is that he's either pulling reverse psychology by saying he would get it if we vote him off, or if he is Town, doesn't believe he has a strong role.
I also have lingering paranoia about Vro's early game reasoning.
And to @ogunbiyi6422 (your name is hard to mention), no, I am not making this a tie, actually I believe it makes Vro the majority, now. Which is probably even worse from your point of view, but it is what it is.
And again, I am not going to mess with mechanics. My personal level of suspicion for both Gerrick and Pengu is immaterial as long as one of the two can be proven clear by the mechanics of the game.
I am growing to accept that I'm going to have to be scanned to prove my allegiance after this misstep, and I'm sure it will sound strange to you, but I really don't want to waste time.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 04:06:20 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 12, 2020, 05:20:39 PM
@Sapphiron and @Pengu: It may well be bad logic, but my thinking is as follows:
We need to get Pengu and Gerrick sorted. I firmly believe one of the two got targeted in the previous night phase, but as of this moment, it's impossible to tell which. Even if all we find are two extra people to get put in the Lock-town, that also means it's two fewer people we need to place, and we can get a more accurate process of elimination.
I really can't expand more than this. Even saying this much puts me very close to the limits of the rules.
The other possibility I've been worried about, which has been the one that makes me give Gerrick a 1/3 chance of being cleared instead of 1/2, is that the Wolves simply didn't decide to kill, but this seems very unlikely.
Both are also highly skilled and dangerous Wolves, so if that's what's found, cool, we can remove them.
Also to Pengu, I will take possible mechanical clears over tone-based clears any day.
Looking back at the idea, it probably is a bad move to let it be Vro, but my thought process is that he's either pulling reverse psychology by saying he would get it if we vote him off, or if he is Town, doesn't believe he has a strong role.
I also have lingering paranoia about Vro's early game reasoning.
And to @ogunbiyi6422 (your name is hard to mention), no, I am not making this a tie, actually I believe it makes Vro the majority, now. Which is probably even worse from your point of view, but it is what it is.
And again, I am not going to mess with mechanics. My personal level of suspicion for both Gerrick and Pengu is immaterial as long as one of the two can be proven clear by the mechanics of the game.
I am growing to accept that I'm going to have to be scanned to prove my allegiance after this misstep, and I'm sure it will sound strange to you, but I really don't want to waste time.
Oh someone most certainly did get targeted last night. But you see I won't let anyone die. Wolfy wolfies might find it hard to kill when the shield of the Fellowship is still around ;)
Am I lying? That's what Hapi does after all. But it's also possible I'm just aware of how powerful I am.
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 05:47:47 PM
Okay, I've had some time to think about what my strategy for this mess of a game is gonna be, and I'm sad to say you won't like the conclusion, @Vroendal.Painnn. XD Well tbh I was expecting you would switch back to me at some point, might as well be now. What I want to know why you feel it is either Michi or Gerrick that needs to be scanned. Wouldn't it be just as easy to have me scanned? As for lynching the inactives, I do understand your point there but I do feel that lynching someone you believe to be town over someone you don't yet believe to be town is a better choice. But it is what it is.
Vote: Vroendal
I tone-read you as Town based on your reaction to Pengu, but there's just so much at play here. I want to keep both Pengu and Gerrick alive, and hopefully the Seer can sort out this mess for us.
I also don't really want to go the route of "let's lynch the inactives" until the situation becomes more dire.
@Sapphiron and @Pengu: It may well be bad logic, but my thinking is as follows:This I understand much better, except the last part. Personally I feel that it doesn't make sense to lynch me in order to allow Gerrick and Michi be scanned, but THEN say that you should be scanned yourself, it kinda ruins the whole point of your vote to waste a night and a night action, no?
We need to get Pengu and Gerrick sorted. I firmly believe one of the two got targeted in the previous night phase, but as of this moment, it's impossible to tell which. Even if all we find are two extra people to get put in the Lock-town, that also means it's two fewer people we need to place, and we can get a more accurate process of elimination.
I really can't expand more than this. Even saying this much puts me very close to the limits of the rules.
The other possibility I've been worried about, which has been the one that makes me give Gerrick a 1/3 chance of being cleared instead of 1/2, is that the Wolves simply didn't decide to kill, but this seems very unlikely.
Both are also highly skilled and dangerous Wolves, so if that's what's found, cool, we can remove them.
Also to Pengu, I will take possible mechanical clears over tone-based clears any day.
Looking back at the idea, it probably is a bad move to let it be Vro, but my thought process is that he's either pulling reverse psychology by saying he would get it if we vote him off, or if he is Town, doesn't believe he has a strong role.
I also have lingering paranoia about Vro's early game reasoning.
And to @ogunbiyi6422 (your name is hard to mention), no, I am not making this a tie, actually I believe it makes Vro the majority, now. Which is probably even worse from your point of view, but it is what it is.
And again, I am not going to mess with mechanics. My personal level of suspicion for both Gerrick and Pengu is immaterial as long as one of the two can be proven clear by the mechanics of the game.
I am growing to accept that I'm going to have to be scanned to prove my allegiance after this misstep, and I'm sure it will sound strange to you, but I really don't want to waste time.
As to my role, I feel comfortable saying that I don't personally see myself as having a strong role worthy of being targeted by the wolves, but on the other hand Lau you still don't know exactly what I can do and it's a dangerous assumption to be making that any role doesn't have a very good reason to wish to remain alive. As I've said before I wouldn't be mad at being lynched, just very disappointed. Your choice has logic, but it's still not the right choice.
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 05:50:29 PM
I messed this part up twice.
Painnn. XD Well tbh I was expecting you would switch back to me at some point, might as well be now. What I want to know why you feel it is either Michi or Gerrick that needs to be scanned. Wouldn't it be just as easy to have me scanned? As for lynching the inactives, I do understand your point there but I do feel that lynching someone you believe to be town over someone you don't yet believe to be town is a better choice. But it is what it is.
What I meant to say was wouldn't it be just as easy to scan me and one of the other two than the other two?
Also I feel that lynching someone you believe to be town over someone you don't yet believe to be town is an inherently WORSE* choice.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 05:51:45 PM
Okay, I've had some time to think about what my strategy for this mess of a game is gonna be, and I'm sad to say you won't like the conclusion, @Vroendal.Painnn. XD Well tbh I was expecting you would switch back to me at some point, might as well be now. What I want to know why you feel it is either Michi or Gerrick that needs to be scanned. Wouldn't it be just as easy to have me scanned? As for lynching the inactives, I do understand your point there but I do feel that lynching someone you believe to be town over someone you don't yet believe to be town is a better choice. But it is what it is.
Vote: Vroendal
I tone-read you as Town based on your reaction to Pengu, but there's just so much at play here. I want to keep both Pengu and Gerrick alive, and hopefully the Seer can sort out this mess for us.
I also don't really want to go the route of "let's lynch the inactives" until the situation becomes more dire.@Sapphiron and @Pengu: It may well be bad logic, but my thinking is as follows:This I understand much better, except the last part. Personally I feel that it doesn't make sense to lynch me in order to allow Gerrick and Michi be scanned, but THEN say that you should be scanned yourself, it kinda ruins the whole point of your vote to waste a night and a night action, no?
We need to get Pengu and Gerrick sorted. I firmly believe one of the two got targeted in the previous night phase, but as of this moment, it's impossible to tell which. Even if all we find are two extra people to get put in the Lock-town, that also means it's two fewer people we need to place, and we can get a more accurate process of elimination.
I really can't expand more than this. Even saying this much puts me very close to the limits of the rules.
The other possibility I've been worried about, which has been the one that makes me give Gerrick a 1/3 chance of being cleared instead of 1/2, is that the Wolves simply didn't decide to kill, but this seems very unlikely.
Both are also highly skilled and dangerous Wolves, so if that's what's found, cool, we can remove them.
Also to Pengu, I will take possible mechanical clears over tone-based clears any day.
Looking back at the idea, it probably is a bad move to let it be Vro, but my thought process is that he's either pulling reverse psychology by saying he would get it if we vote him off, or if he is Town, doesn't believe he has a strong role.
I also have lingering paranoia about Vro's early game reasoning.
And to @ogunbiyi6422 (your name is hard to mention), no, I am not making this a tie, actually I believe it makes Vro the majority, now. Which is probably even worse from your point of view, but it is what it is.
And again, I am not going to mess with mechanics. My personal level of suspicion for both Gerrick and Pengu is immaterial as long as one of the two can be proven clear by the mechanics of the game.
I am growing to accept that I'm going to have to be scanned to prove my allegiance after this misstep, and I'm sure it will sound strange to you, but I really don't want to waste time.
As to my role, I feel comfortable saying that I don't personally see myself as having a strong role worthy of being targeted by the wolves, but on the other hand Lau you still don't know exactly what I can do and it's a dangerous assumption to be making that any role doesn't have a very good reason to wish to remain alive. As I've said before I wouldn't be mad at being lynched, just very disappointed. Your choice has logic, but it's still not the right choice.
If I'm looking at my action here objectively, I would think "shit, that is sus" so yeah, I accept that I'm gonna have to get scanned.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 05:52:50 PM
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 12, 2020, 05:53:39 PM
I'm baffled, as there seem to be 2 or 3 viable theories, but Hapi seems to have a powerful role so I'll trust them for now, and if this vote turns out poorly, I might look to voting Hapi out.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 12, 2020, 05:53:55 PM
That said, how much time is there left in the phase? I don't know if I have to commit to this blunder. @Red Mones?2 hours I believe
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 05:54:41 PM
Vote: Vro
I'm baffled, as there seem to be 2 or 3 viable theories, but Hapi seems to have a powerful role so I'll trust them for now, and if this vote turns out poorly, I might look to voting Hapi out.
No, Hapi is never scum. Go read the thread carefully.
Post by: Ruguo on December 12, 2020, 05:55:14 PM
That said, how much time is there left in the phase? I don't know if I have to commit to this blunder. Red Mones?
I believe it to be about 2 hours. 12pm pst.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 05:57:34 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 06:00:49 PM
That's a little suspicious yourself to be relying on the opinion of whoever you think has a powerful role rather than who has the best reasoning. By all accounts you should be voting me because of Lau. :/
We do have 2 hours left.
Lau... I'm still not liking your logic there. If you're voting me to let the seer scan the others why are you bringing up that they should scan you? The town is either going to have to go along with your plan for multiple phases or just not listen to you at all after you lynch me until you're scanned. Either way seems a little sketch, I must ask you to reconsider that choice. If you still think that Michi is acting more scumlike than me I would think it would still be reasonable to scan me and Gerrick after lynching Michi.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 12, 2020, 06:03:47 PM
Flying, are you voting me just because Hapi is saying that she thinks I might be bad?
That's a little suspicious yourself to be relying on the opinion of whoever you think has a powerful role rather than who has the best reasoning. By all accounts you should be voting me because of Lau. :/
We do have 2 hours left.
Lau... I'm still not liking your logic there. If you're voting me to let the seer scan the others why are you bringing up that they should scan you? The town is either going to have to go along with your plan for multiple phases or just not listen to you at all after you lynch me until you're scanned. Either way seems a little sketch, I must ask you to reconsider that choice. If you still think that Michi is acting more scumlike than me I would think it would still be reasonable to scan me and Gerrick after lynching Michi.
I've never once said you were bad only that I trust you less than I trust Michi.
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 06:06:50 PM
Just for you bb.Then what's this? :p You put me in the scum lean, seems to contradict what you're saying.
1. Michi
2. Sapph
3. BSR, turtle, TGN, Lau
4. Wischland, Willie, Newvitalania, Human Sanity, Hapi >:D, Gerrick now..., Eagle!!, ENE, Doc, Daws, and Daw
5. Moot, Vro, Ogun
6.
7. Gerrick b4 he scared me
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:09:45 PM
Flying, are you voting me just because Hapi is saying that she thinks I might be bad?
That's a little suspicious yourself to be relying on the opinion of whoever you think has a powerful role rather than who has the best reasoning. By all accounts you should be voting me because of Lau. :/
We do have 2 hours left.
Lau... I'm still not liking your logic there. If you're voting me to let the seer scan the others why are you bringing up that they should scan you? The town is either going to have to go along with your plan for multiple phases or just not listen to you at all after you lynch me until you're scanned. Either way seems a little sketch, I must ask you to reconsider that choice. If you still think that Michi is acting more scumlike than me I would think it would still be reasonable to scan me and Gerrick after lynching Michi.
No, Michi likely has a 1/2 chance of being scum, and at worst a 1/3 chance, same as Gerrick. Letting Michi die would be foolish. I am never taking my reads based on logic and deduction over mechanical reads, ever.
That said, I did just say I am not committed to this blunder. Up for a quick compromise wagon?
And yeah, this blunder may just have cost the game, but even if I am lynched, there will be benefits to Town. I don't ever make it through Werewolf alive, anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 12, 2020, 06:12:01 PM
Flying, are you voting me just because Hapi is saying that she thinks I might be bad?
That's a little suspicious yourself to be relying on the opinion of whoever you think has a powerful role rather than who has the best reasoning. By all accounts you should be voting me because of Lau. :/
We do have 2 hours left.
Lau... I'm still not liking your logic there. If you're voting me to let the seer scan the others why are you bringing up that they should scan you? The town is either going to have to go along with your plan for multiple phases or just not listen to you at all after you lynch me until you're scanned. Either way seems a little sketch, I must ask you to reconsider that choice. If you still think that Michi is acting more scumlike than me I would think it would still be reasonable to scan me and Gerrick after lynching Michi.
To be honest, there's way too much info to process and 2-3 different theories so I'm just hoping we do the vote that would give us the most info on those who raised the idea of said vote.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:13:28 PM
Meant to say "town" and not "scum." Bring in the Freudian slip accusations!
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 06:15:17 PM
I don't think there's time for a compromise wagon, though I do want to hear which one you think it should be.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:17:50 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 06:20:19 PM
I'm going with that other XKIer you keep ranting about. What's their name again? At this point, they're probably Town, but they're quiet and/or inactive town, so we'd probably just be doing them a favour by removing them from the game, and hopefully not somehow get rid of a freakishly powerful role.Lau why do you have to keep flip-flopping now when there's so little time aiyaiyai... ;-;
It was Wille-Harlia (aka Willie). I'm not voting him until I see at least two votes from my wagon and at least one from Michi's go on him.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:21:40 PM
I'm going with that other XKIer you keep ranting about. What's their name again? At this point, they're probably Town, but they're quiet and/or inactive town, so we'd probably just be doing them a favour by removing them from the game, and hopefully not somehow get rid of a freakishly powerful role.Lau why do you have to keep flip-flopping now when there's so little time aiyaiyai... ;-;
It was Wille-Harlia (aka Willie). I'm not voting him until I see at least two votes from my wagon and at least one from Michi's go on him.
Real talk, I fucked up and I am trying to mitigate the damage.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:22:06 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 12, 2020, 06:26:29 PM
Now you're just throwing pebbles trying to make a splash.
Post by: Red Mones on December 12, 2020, 06:26:48 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:34:33 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:37:20 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 06:39:34 PM
You kinda have to though I see that, no way there's going to be a switch now. I'mma whap you with a big ol' dead fish! (in spirit, and not maliciously, much <3)
And yes :) I am having loads of fun, I feel this has been a great experience, and great for my personal experience as a player. I have some of the most fun when other people have fun so it's all good.
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 06:42:33 PM
Dagnabbit Lau. :(But also you should understand that in my eyes this lynch is a 100% chance of lynching a townie (me) vs your 50% chance of lynching a townie (Michi) so I mean, you could technically still switch back and see if there's a tie, in this situation I think a tie might be a more objectively good idea but ah well, you live you learn
You kinda have to though I see that, no way there's going to be a switch now. I'mma whap you with a big ol' dead fish! (in spirit, and not maliciously, much <3)
And yes :) I am having loads of fun, I feel this has been a great experience, and great for my personal experience as a player. I have some of the most fun when other people have fun so it's all good.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:43:57 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:45:44 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 12, 2020, 06:55:04 PM
Vroendal - 6 (Laurentus, Dawsinian, Hapi, Michi, Gerrick, Flying Eagles)
Michi - 4 (Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal, Ogunbiyi)
Gerrick - 2 (Wille-Harlia, TGN)
Post by: Wischland on December 12, 2020, 06:55:25 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:58:55 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 06:59:41 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/615665368056463381/616742499771351107/image0.jpg)
Post by: Red Mones on December 12, 2020, 06:59:55 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 07:00:38 PM
(Also, if by some miracle we actually lynch scum now, then this was all planned and I won't hear it spoken of otherwise!)Ofc ofc. >.< But also dang I would increase exponentially in my own evaluations if I ever played this kind of game as a wolf. o.O I almost saved myself from death.
What is your reads list, for posterity. You don't have to be kind to me in it, by the way.Believe it or not Lau, it probably won't matter at all if I tell you my reads list now. And again a disclaimer that this is a moment in time and my opinions aren't set in stone. :p But if you say so:
Mechanically cleared town - Myself by virtue of knowing my own role
Town Core - Laurentus (feels very townie to me, would not play as he has been as town, at least imo), TGN (a beginner, has been playing EXACTLY as I would expect him to as town, so much so that I feel convinced), turtle (same situation as TGN)
Town leans - Sapph, Doc, Wisch, Daws
Null read - Gerrick, Michi (by virtue of possibly just being unaligned), Hapi (for the same reason), Moot, ogun, ENE, Daw, BSR (I originally had him as a town read but as the game has progressed and I hear nothing from him I grow less sure just by virtue of having less information), newvit
Scum lean - Willie, Flying, and I suppose Human as well, I have so little information in general and their posts have been rubbing me wrong, I swear I'm not being biased against non-Wintreath members! Would never do that.
Mechanically cleared scum - None as of yet
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 07:04:12 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 07:05:51 PM
@Dawcreek
@Dawsinian
@Doc
@Flying Eagles
@Gerrick
@Princess Hapi
@HumanSanity
@Laurentus
@Michi
@newvitalania
@ogunbiyi6422
@Sapphiron
@The Greenlandic North
@turtle
@Vroendal
@Wille-Harlia
@Wintermoot
@Wischland
I urge all of you to vote for Eastern New England so we can keep Vro in the game. Eastern New England is about to be removed for inactivity, anyway.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 12, 2020, 07:06:55 PM
Walks in and looks at the time.
It seems like I'm rather late to the game, my apologies.
I'll hurry up and get my vote in before phase ends, but first I'll go backread the thread.
Don't be too sure Lau.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 07:07:56 PM
Post by: Wischland on December 12, 2020, 07:10:21 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 07:11:55 PM
Okay, everyone reading this thread right now, just say "aye". I need to see if we can pull a last-minute switcheroo.
Post by: Doc on December 12, 2020, 07:12:44 PM
Me, no intent to change, cause I remain unpersuaded by your arguments about Michi, but if y'all wanna switch wagons to a non-target because you're suffering from a terrible case of WIFOM, you do you.
Post by: Red Mones on December 12, 2020, 07:18:34 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 07:21:04 PM
@Vroendal, join me in trying to lynch Michi.
Vote: Michi.
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 07:23:07 PM
The current vote count is:
Vroendal - 6 (Laurentus, Dawsinian, Hapi, Michi, Gerrick, Flying Eagles)
Michi - 4 (Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal, Ogunbiyi)
Gerrick - 2 (Wille-Harlia, TGN)
Post by: Wischland on December 12, 2020, 07:24:34 PM
Vote: Lynch Michi
Post by: Wintermoot on December 12, 2020, 07:25:21 PM
Vote: Michi
I haven't seen anything that changes my thoughts from when I posted last night, and at the end of the day between the two I can't vote for the person I feel is less suspicious just because game mechanics might sort the whole thing out later in the future. This round has been a mess, and I hope people will be more cautious in the future before they pile onto person after person within a round. At some point, you run out of time, and that seems to be where we're at now.
@Laurentus: I will get back to you about Gerrick ASAP, I'm just making this post to make my vote before the end of the round.
Post by: Red Mones on December 12, 2020, 07:26:42 PM
Michi - 7 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal, Ogunbiyi, Wischland, Wintermoot)
Vroendal - 5 (Dawsinian, Hapi, Michi, Gerrick, Flying Eagles)
Gerrick - 2 (Wille-Harlia, TGN)
Post by: Wischland on December 12, 2020, 07:33:06 PM
But really it's mostly just that Michi seems like a scum-lean, so I don't mind following Lau's lead in this case.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 12, 2020, 07:45:55 PM
Anyway, I must conclude that there's a solid chance at least one of them are wolves.
Change vote: Michi
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 07:46:45 PM
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 12, 2020, 07:47:05 PM
Yeah, I'm not really sure about Vro but now that I think about it, the whole Hapi-Michi joined at the hip thing has been concerning. I swear I saw Red Mones state somewhere that there are 16 townies but I can't find that post anymore.In other words, I don't think anyone is unaligned.
Anyway, I must conclude that there's a solid chance at least one of them are wolves.
Change vote: Michi
Post by: Eastern New England on December 12, 2020, 07:56:51 PM
Vote: Michi
Many of the players I town-read are voting Michi, so I trust their judgement on top of my own. As Wisch pointed out, there are also a bunch of mechanical reasons.
Also - I'm running out of time and I prefer to stay alive ^-^
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 07:59:35 PM
I'm honestly a bit surprised to still be Town-read, ngl.I would expect you to play a much more sure game as scum. Obviously knowing who you need to eliminate makes faking doubt a lot more difficult, and I'm seeing a lot of doubt from you this game. Call it a gut read. :p And your logic has (for the most part) jived.
Post by: Red Mones on December 12, 2020, 08:01:49 PM
Faramir (New Vitalania), the “Town Backup” was lynched for inactivity.
The final vote count was:
Michi - 9 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal, Ogunbiyi, Wischland, Wintermoot, Flying Eagles, Eastern New England)
Vroendal - 4 (Dawsinian, Hapi, Michi, Gerrick)
Gerrick - 2 (Wille-Harlia, TGN)
Please welcome @Minish to the game! Dawcreek requested to leave before they would’ve been lynched for inactivity, but I chose to wait until the end of the phase to replace them. Minish will be their substitute.
This is the end of Day 2, and the beginning of Night 2. Phase ends in roughly 24 hours on Sunday, the 13th, at 12 PM PST. Please send me your night actions!
Post by: Vroendal on December 12, 2020, 08:04:03 PM
Also MINISHHHHH! :D Welcome
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 08:04:34 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 08:06:30 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 08:09:26 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 12, 2020, 08:09:50 PM
Ooooo, Minish has arrived. Red done called in the cavalry.You can thank @Ruguo for that. :D
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 08:14:53 PM
I am also now much more certain that Gerrick is Town.
Post by: Minish on December 12, 2020, 08:16:35 PM
If Minish proves suitably pro-town, I think I'm stepping down as Town leader, haha.
Lol, I can't make any promises I would be a good town leader replacing in this late.
I'll try to catch up on stuff as best as I can but if anyone wants to give some highlights that would be nice!
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 08:17:11 PM
Post by: Wischland on December 12, 2020, 08:19:14 PM
Post by: Wischland on December 12, 2020, 08:23:17 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 12, 2020, 08:25:13 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 08:27:02 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 08:28:45 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 12, 2020, 08:32:46 PM
Post by: Wischland on December 12, 2020, 08:38:17 PM
They could take on the role abilities of a dead townie.I see thank you!
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 08:44:22 PM
Post by: Minish on December 12, 2020, 09:05:41 PM
@Minish, we lynched Dawsinian D1, he turned out to be the town Roleblocker. He got resurrected at the beginning of D2. No one died N1. We just lynched an unaligned player now. I'm not sure which other highlights to mention.
Thanks, that's good info!
Interesting that no one died. Since there's no hinting at roles/claiming it would be nice if people could make reads lists, even if it's just an organization of your reads without any detailed info.
Post by: Red Mones on December 12, 2020, 09:06:26 PM
Post by: TGN on December 12, 2020, 09:08:36 PM
@BraveSirRobinits @TGN now
@Dawcreek
@Dawsinian
@Doc
@Flying Eagles
@Gerrick
@Princess Hapi
@HumanSanity
@Laurentus
@Michi
@newvitalania
@ogunbiyi6422
@Sapphiron
@The Greenlandic North
@turtle
@Vroendal
@Wille-Harlia
@Wintermoot
@Wischland
I urge all of you to vote for Eastern New England so we can keep Vro in the game. Eastern New England is about to be removed for inactivity, anyway.
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 09:19:29 PM
Don't worry, these guys know the drill. I've had them doing it the whole D2.@Minish, we lynched Dawsinian D1, he turned out to be the town Roleblocker. He got resurrected at the beginning of D2. No one died N1. We just lynched an unaligned player now. I'm not sure which other highlights to mention.
Thanks, that's good info!
Interesting that no one died. Since there's no hinting at roles/claiming it would be nice if people could make reads lists, even if it's just an organization of your reads without any detailed info.
You'll get a bit of an answer to your unspoken question starting from page 21, iirc.
Post by: Minish on December 12, 2020, 09:31:48 PM
Don't worry, these guys know the drill. I've had them doing it the whole D2.@Minish, we lynched Dawsinian D1, he turned out to be the town Roleblocker. He got resurrected at the beginning of D2. No one died N1. We just lynched an unaligned player now. I'm not sure which other highlights to mention.
Thanks, that's good info!
Interesting that no one died. Since there's no hinting at roles/claiming it would be nice if people could make reads lists, even if it's just an organization of your reads without any detailed info.
You'll get a bit of an answer to your unspoken question starting from page 21, iirc.
Awesome. Haven't really started reading yet since I'm on mobile right now so probably will do the reading later tonight. But been keeping up from when I subbed in so will know any recent stuff.
Laur definitely does seem town and that's probably the consensus given his position right now. Just wanted to get that read out since just the way he seems to be leading town confidently (as in rallying them to post reads and everything) is not in line with how unsure he felt when we were scum together before.
I think I saw something about a connection with Hapi and the person just lynched? I'll definitely look into that more too. Sounds potentially interesting given the flip.
Post by: Minish on December 12, 2020, 09:33:11 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on December 12, 2020, 09:44:51 PM
Reminder to use the new bookmarks feature at the top and bottom (next to reply) of the thread! I’ve bookmarked the beginnings of each phase.<3
Post by: Laurentus on December 12, 2020, 09:59:31 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 12, 2020, 11:13:19 PM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 13, 2020, 12:43:06 AM
Well. We do have unaligned players. Care to reevaluate your read @Sapphiron?Well that sorts out part of the theory we had in mind. I am still fairly confident of my town read of Hapi though, Gollum may be self-corrupted but Sméagol has always been undeniably a kind soul.
Post by: Gerrick on December 13, 2020, 01:05:53 AM
Also,
@Wintermoot, could you easily program in a feature that lets people see how many posts each person participating in the game has made?Just remembered an easy way to do this, which should be useful to everyone:
1. Click the More dropdown menu, which is located at the top of the thread next to the Reply and Bookmarks buttons.
2. Click Print.
3. Use your browser's find function (typically control+f).
4. Type in "post by: [player's username]".
That'll let you see how many posts someone's made as well as easily isolate and skip through what they've said.
Post by: Vroendal on December 13, 2020, 01:36:40 AM
You know Sapph, I think we should really reconsider assuming that Hapi is Smeagol. I'm a little surprised at myself for assuming it in the first place, I suppose my mind was too busy trying not to get lynched. :pWell. We do have unaligned players. Care to reevaluate your read @Sapphiron?Well that sorts out part of the theory we had in mind. I am still fairly confident of my town read of Hapi though, Gollum may be self-corrupted but Sméagol has always been undeniably a kind soul.
First of all, having both Smeagol and Gollum as two separate players seems a little redundant when there are so many eligible characters. Secondly, read back on everything Hapi has posted since the end of D1, I think there are several very telling things in what she's said that do not point to Smeagol. Thirdly, she has been seeming to clear Michi from something unrelated to whatever her "precious" is, I think that the Gollum quote and gif felt more like a chaotical joking red herring.
That being said, I am growing more convinced of her towniness. I need more time to figure stuff out though, I've been unable to focus on everyone at once.
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 13, 2020, 02:09:27 AM
@BraveSirRobin, I have faithfully kept you as my Lock-town, but you're going to make both yourself and me look suspicious if you don't come and do some things, nephew.
Well boy oh boy I missed quite a lot. I was a bit distracted by the real world, as regrettable as that is. But much appreciated. Care to fill me in on what we're up against at this point? Also if we have more than 20 minutes I can probably make my own decisions but 20+ new pages is a lot to come back to :))
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 13, 2020, 02:12:36 AM
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 13, 2020, 02:34:02 AM
That being said, I would like @Wintermoot 's Gerrick reasoning which was omitted. Additionally, I am skeptical about ENE, and Flying Eagles. Though ENE could just be a victim of inactivity and circumstance, so I'll refrain from anything there for now.
Post by: Michi on December 13, 2020, 04:20:34 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 13, 2020, 05:34:33 AM
Dead
Sorry Michi I tried everything I know that you were a good kind soul. Enjoy the ever after.
Well. We do have unaligned players. Care to reevaluate your read @Sapphiron?Well that sorts out part of the theory we had in mind. I am still fairly confident of my town read of Hapi though, Gollum may be self-corrupted but Sméagol has always been undeniably a kind soul.
Still not connected to Michi I just wanted him alive cause he wasn't ebil and we are wasting days.
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 13, 2020, 06:17:31 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 13, 2020, 06:21:11 AM
Post by: Wintermoot on December 13, 2020, 06:58:38 AM
That being said, I would like @Wintermoot 's Gerrick reasoning which was omitted.Omitted may be the wrong choice of word, I simply commented on the players who were most relevant at the time I posted...the three players the round largely revolved around and the remaining player in danger of being voted off. While I noticed there was a wagon on Gerrick at some point in the round, it had disappeared by the time I was able to post.
That being said, it seems like the most suspicious thing about Gerrick is the fact that he brought Dawsinian into the tie in the first round...in a way, he's been blamed for the reasoning, while Vro has been blamed for pushing him out of the tie. It's possible that one of them is a wolf, but I doubt both are...why would they team up on the first round to specifically push Daws into being lynched? It would have been safer for them to continue the Laurentus/Michi tied bandwagon, or to cast 'vanity wagons' as they seem to be called.
In the second day, Gerrick voted for Vro early on...he wasn't the only person to do so, but it is a bit ironic that he casting suspicion on Vro for agreeing with him. If I had to pick Gerrick and Vro, I'd say that Gerrick's vote is more in line with what I expected from a wolf in the first round: line up villagers for RNG to kill off in order to avoid the kind of scrutiny that comes with being the person that pushes a villager into getting lynched. However, I also suspected Sapphiron and Daws of that as well in the first round, and obviously in Daws's case I was wrong. Laurentus also seemed to strongly believe he's a villager at the beginning of the round, and it's an opinion that seems to have carried a lot of weight, but he doesn't seem so sure toward the end (when he says there's a 1/3 chances that Gerrick is innocent).
Interestingly enough, Gerrick was proven to be correct when he said that Michi was probably an unaligned role when most people believed he was a wolf-aligned Gollum to Hapi's town-aligned Smeagol...an idea that Laurentus dismissed as speculation. Wolf or not, being proven right has to count for something. :P
I guess when it comes to it, I don't believe both Gerrick and Vro are both wolves, but it's possible that one of them are and it's also possible that neither of them are. it's hard to get anything more definite when we're talking about events that spawned from a vote on the first day when there was little to even speculate about.
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 09:09:03 AM
Wonder how many of those people who jumped on the Michi wagon at the end are wolves? Gut's telling me at least Flying Eagles from the fact that they jumped on at the end of Vroendal's wagon when he already had a clear majority and then switched over to Michi's when they saw the tide turn, having given weak reasoning both times.Wow, okay, yeah, that's so simple, why has no one thought of it before now.
Also,@Wintermoot, could you easily program in a feature that lets people see how many posts each person participating in the game has made?Just remembered an easy way to do this, which should be useful to everyone:
1. Click the More dropdown menu, which is located at the top of the thread next to the Reply and Bookmarks buttons.
2. Click Print.
3. Use your browser's find function (typically control+f).
4. Type in "post by: [player's username]".
That'll let you see how many posts someone's made as well as easily isolate and skip through what they've said.
@Red Mones, could you kindly bookmark this post?
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 11:47:11 AM
So we killed an unaligned which doesn't help us... cool. ::)Here's the problem with lying and misleading: no one knows what the hell to make of you, now. Don't do it again.
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 11:48:25 AM
That being said, I would like @Wintermoot 's Gerrick reasoning which was omitted.Omitted may be the wrong choice of word, I simply commented on the players who were most relevant at the time I posted...the three players the round largely revolved around and the remaining player in danger of being voted off. While I noticed there was a wagon on Gerrick at some point in the round, it had disappeared by the time I was able to post.
That being said, it seems like the most suspicious thing about Gerrick is the fact that he brought Dawsinian into the tie in the first round...in a way, he's been blamed for the reasoning, while Vro has been blamed for pushing him out of the tie. It's possible that one of them is a wolf, but I doubt both are...why would they team up on the first round to specifically push Daws into being lynched? It would have been safer for them to continue the Laurentus/Michi tied bandwagon, or to cast 'vanity wagons' as they seem to be called.
In the second day, Gerrick voted for Vro early on...he wasn't the only person to do so, but it is a bit ironic that he casting suspicion on Vro for agreeing with him. If I had to pick Gerrick and Vro, I'd say that Gerrick's vote is more in line with what I expected from a wolf in the first round: line up villagers for RNG to kill off in order to avoid the kind of scrutiny that comes with being the person that pushes a villager into getting lynched. However, I also suspected Sapphiron and Daws of that as well in the first round, and obviously in Daws's case I was wrong. Laurentus also seemed to strongly believe he's a villager at the beginning of the round, and it's an opinion that seems to have carried a lot of weight, but he doesn't seem so sure toward the end (when he says there's a 1/3 chances that Gerrick is innocent).
Interestingly enough, Gerrick was proven to be correct when he said that Michi was probably an unaligned role when most people believed he was a wolf-aligned Gollum to Hapi's town-aligned Smeagol...an idea that Laurentus dismissed as speculation. Wolf or not, being proven right has to count for something. :P
I guess when it comes to it, I don't believe both Gerrick and Vro are both wolves, but it's possible that one of them are and it's also possible that neither of them are. it's hard to get anything more definite when we're talking about events that spawned from a vote on the first day when there was little to even speculate about.
Where did I dismiss it as speculation?
Post by: Gerrick on December 13, 2020, 12:54:41 PM
Yeah, I'm not really buying the whole Hapi/Michi are Smeagol/Gollum thing. I'm thinking Hapi defended Michi (or some other action) last night phase, and she's saying she's certain Michi is not scum because there was no wolf kill. Her justification is very shaky -- just as her justification was against me earlier... -- so I'm going to say just because Hapi is likely town does not in any way mean Michi is. I'm guessing he is an unaligned Smeagol/Gollum if we are to take his character hints as true. If that is the case, it might be a waste to lynch him, although I'm by no means against him getting lynched. If there is a possible upside to his role, there is just as likely a possible downside.
Also @Gerrick, I am rather surprised you're openly speculating about Hapi's role openly. That is distinct anti-town behaviour.I'm not speculating what Hapi's role is, just that she has a role. How else would she mechanically know someone's alignment?How exactly to you explain Sapph's certainty that Hapi is Town?Hapi hasn't claimed to be tied to Michi, just to someone AFAIK. She just claims that she mechanically knows he's not scum (which I'm not certain of). It's still possible that she is Town in this situation. It's possible that she does not have contact with the player she's tied to, but if that player dies then she does.
That first quote you're mentioning was well after we began speculating that your roles were tied.
As to your second quote, I would think that if someone were falsely claiming to be linked with you, you would make it much clearer to everyone that Hapi was straight up lying than a cryptic RP post.
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 01:15:33 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 13, 2020, 03:33:05 PM
Wait so if Hapi says he knew who Gollum was, and wasn't evil and wanted to not waste days, that just makes me confused. Because either Hapi is (A) Frodo or something who is "with Gollum" , etc. OR he's a Nazgul/Sauron/etc who knows who Gollum is and is covering his tracks. Alternatively, (big stretch but thinking out loud here) Hapi is Smeagol, and they have some sort of tag-team win condition like get the ring?
:-\ this is so far from the truth I dunno what to say lol.
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/b8KoX.gif)
So we killed an unaligned which doesn't help us... cool. ::)Here's the problem with lying and misleading: no one knows what the hell to make of you, now. Don't do it again.
This whole game is about lying and misleading. And TBF I just ran with the speculation you guys throw out about me I've never claimed to be anything, that would break the rules.
There is some truth in what I say the question is who will find it. I donut know but I do know that my shield protects the fellowship.
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/1h3xk.gif)
It’s not a big stretch, we have been discussing your third option for the past 10 pages :P Hapi denies, hinting at Aragorn instead. But that was one of the 3 contentions driving the day phase.
I'm popular :)) look ma I made it.
(https://i.gifer.com/UyPC.gif)
Searching my name in this thread returned 427 results... I'm special lol.
Post by: Minish on December 13, 2020, 04:32:23 PM
Just looking at voting though Vroendal doesn't look great to me at the moment. Will see how he looks when reading the thread. But d1 seems like it was probably a bunch of townies being voted for so mafia didn't bother trying to push any certain wagon and let town do their thing. D2 however, 9 to 4 vote with Michi vs Vro looks like it could have been mafia trying to save their scumbud. Michi was 3rd party but might as well treat him as town when looking at it that way. So if Vro seems scummy and the vote went the way it did, that definitely puts the voters on Michi under scrutiny. Vro looks especially bad considering the voters on him as well (Dawsinian, Hapi, Michi, Gerrick). Dawsinian is confirmed town, from what little I've read it seems Hapi might be town, Michi is third party, and Gerrick is an unknown to me at the moment. Anyone know if he's likely to bus as mafia or not? That can help me read him a little more town for that vote or not.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 13, 2020, 04:42:27 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on December 13, 2020, 05:01:00 PM
Where did I dismiss it as speculation?
At the risk of drawing more attention to the point, Gerrick, I would characterise that as speculation.That's the post that made me feel that you dismissed it as speculation.
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 05:12:37 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 05:18:04 PM
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=5615.0
It's relatively short, so should give you some good info from which to draw meta reads.
Post by: Minish on December 13, 2020, 05:28:26 PM
Had a bunch of quotes, accidentally backed out of the page when I went to reply to them and I lost them all. :(
Post by: Minish on December 13, 2020, 06:19:25 PM
Laurentus looked town from d1. There were a couple of iffy things I quoted (mainly remember the thing about cop checking Hapi, which directing actions like that is meh) but for the most part I think he looked more town than scum. He had a lot of good analytical posts, was pushing people to vote, and like I said before it came across as more confident Laur than worried scum Laur. He also made a good point about the eod wagons looking (I believe he called it) vanity wagons, which is exactly what they were.
Vro actually did come out of d1 looking not too great too me. He did have some points in his back and forth with Laurentus, but overall I felt more scum vibes from him. Suffice to say that if one of Vro/Laurentus flips scum the other is very unlikely to be aligned with them. I found his post asking Sapphiron what he thought of Laurentus so early a little odd, but it's a little hard to tell for sure not knowing relationships/how people play here. His post responding to Laur asking what Vro himself thought of Laur felt safe to me and the wording didn't feel as town. The vote on Gerrick seemed an easy one for scum to throw on a townie without much reasoning behind it. But his vote for Daws looked even worse. I believe it also broke the tie. (Side note - can anyone tell me what happens in the even of a tied vote here?)
Hapi made some very obvious references to Aragorn, which is interesting and I'll have to see if anyone responded in any way to that d2. But Laur brought up the point that I was thinking when reading that which was that it would be a bold play if she's scum. There is without a doubt someone who is Aragorn in this game so it would be easily "counterclaimed".
The new players from another forum (sorry forgot the forum name) were really suspicious to me until I found out they were all from a different place. No lynching d1 is almost always bad since it gives you no info to build off of. Day interactions are more important than night actions. You need to force mafia to show their hand by making them vote and then analyzing that.
Sapphiron had me a bit suspicious. His read on Laur was that "Laur is Laur" and then said there's not really much to work on the first day phase. Which seems like an excuse to sit back and let town lynch themselves.
Wintermoot had a post that was pretty good (I think I had a couple of issues with it but the overall idea was decent). He was speculating on pairings based on interactions. He ended up voting Sapph out of it. The reasoning wasn't the most sound, but I also felt a bit suspicious of Sapph.
There were maybe one or two posts of Wischland's that I liked...until he jumped in to vote Daws out of nowhere and said he would explain (but didn't before eod, so if he has I haven't gotten to it).
Doc had a couple of good posts to me at the beginning. I especially liked that he gave the new people benefit of the doubt instead of throwing more suspicion on them like would be simple for scum to do to try to get easy lynches.
Hard to remember what I thought of everyone without having to reread and requote everything but these were what sticks out in my mind the most.
Simple d1 reads list.
Town Lean
Laurentus
Doc
Hapi
Turtle
Wintermoot
Scum Lean
Vro
Sapph
Wischland (Gonna put him here because I did really like his first replies to Laur giving his analysis on the game, but I also really hated that Daws vote at the end so he's like both scum and not scum til I get more info)
Neutral/Everyone Else
BraveSirRobin
Eastern New England
Flying Eagles
Gerrick
HumanSanity
ogunbiyi6422
The Greenlandic North
Wille-Harlia
Post by: Red Mones on December 13, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
@Red Mones, could you kindly bookmark this post?Yes! Done.
Post by: Red Mones on December 13, 2020, 06:24:30 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 13, 2020, 08:06:19 PM
This is the end of Night 2, and the beginning of Day 3. Phase ends in 48 hours on Tuesday, the 15th, at 12 PM PST.
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 08:09:34 PM
Post by: Minish on December 13, 2020, 08:10:06 PM
1) Myself (because ofc), Daws
2) TGN
3) Hapi, Doc, Sapph, Wisch, BSR, Michi
4) Moot, Willie, newvit, ogun, Daw, ENE, turtle, Human
5) Lau(?), Flying
6) No clear reads
7) N/A
This is an interesting list. Mostly Moot and Gerrick (who he added later), being nulls. I would think there was enough posts/info from Moot to place him somewhere. And I feel like he talked about Gerrick a bit before this. TGN is also pretty high up there and I'm not sure why.
Post by: Vroendal on December 13, 2020, 08:10:46 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 13, 2020, 08:13:33 PM
Thank you. :p Reminder that this was my opinion at a moment in time. Moot had talked a lot, but I was still rather unsure what his aims were, I'm still not tbh. I'm inclined to Town read him as of right now. As for Gerrick, I'm not the only one who has had a difficult time reading him. Again I'm more inclined to town read him right now. Only time will tell, but that's where I stand. TGN I still firmly believe to be town based on meta from how I've seen him talk on the NS message board and because this is his first time playing WW.1) Myself (because ofc), Daws
2) TGN
3) Hapi, Doc, Sapph, Wisch, BSR, Michi
4) Moot, Willie, newvit, ogun, Daw, ENE, turtle, Human
5) Lau(?), Flying
6) No clear reads
7) N/A
This is an interesting list. Mostly Moot and Gerrick (who he added later), being nulls. I would think there was enough posts/info from Moot to place him somewhere. And I feel like he talked about Gerrick a bit before this. TGN is also pretty high up there and I'm not sure why.
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 08:13:57 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 08:14:42 PM
Post by: Minish on December 13, 2020, 08:15:02 PM
I'm pretty sure I was jailed. I also wonder if that is why there's no night kill.
It's possible. There's also another possible explanation that I am privy of that could have happened due to you flattering me and playing up my mafia skills. Lol.
Post by: Minish on December 13, 2020, 08:15:44 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 08:18:53 PM
I'm pretty sure I was jailed. I also wonder if that is why there's no night kill.
It's possible. There's also another possible explanation that I am privy of that could have happened due to you flattering me and playing up my mafia skills. Lol.
Yeah, was kinda hoping something like that would happen. :))
Post by: Wischland on December 13, 2020, 08:28:33 PM
Post by: Minish on December 13, 2020, 08:32:37 PM
I'm pretty sure I was jailed. I also wonder if that is why there's no night kill.
Actually do you have reason to believe it was a jailing or something else?
If you were jailed it could have been by mafia. We already had a town roleblocker flip. Though I'm going by ZD setups mostly here so might be off base. Mafia jails/blocks you and then tries to kill someone else to get two birds with one stone. If I picked up on something in what little of d2 I've read you would be less concern for mafia to possibly kill at this point as opposed to trying to hit something like cop/doctor.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 13, 2020, 08:38:41 PM
1) Inactive wolf
or
2) Some townies are blocking the wolf from doing their job
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 08:39:22 PM
Can you share your reads list quickly? Doesn't have to have any detail. I just wanna check something.
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 08:49:31 PM
My action was not successful, and I received soup from another player, although this had no effect.
This seems to reinforce the idea that I was jailed, and I think soup could be a reference to Eowyn's scene in The Two Towers where she offers Aragorn some soup and he finds the stuff awful. At any rate, this is as much as I'm getting from Google. Will again ping @Doc to see if more can be gleamed here.
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 08:51:51 PM
Post by: Minish on December 13, 2020, 09:03:20 PM
I also have reason to believe I was visited by Eowyn, but this similarly had no effect. I don't think I'm breaking any rules by sharing this, as this is as a result of someone else's actions performed on me, so I'll just share the gist of what I was told, and omit the potentially rule-violating info:
My action was not successful, and I received soup from another player, although this had no effect.
This seems to reinforce the idea that I was jailed, and I think soup could be a reference to Eowyn's scene in The Two Towers where she offers Aragorn some soup and he finds the stuff awful. At any rate, this is as much as I'm getting from Google. Will again ping @Doc to see if more can be gleamed here.
I'm guessing you don't know the person who is Eowyn? Thought maybe the soup thing could be like a fruit vendor role, but that doesn't work if you weren't told the player it was from.
@Minish, what was the gist of what happened to you?
Gonna try to be careful here since I'm not sure what's fine with hinting and what's not. But it was not something that someone else did. It was a precaution I took myself. If anyone at all targeted me they might have a slight idea depending on their role.
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 09:38:47 PM
I also have reason to believe I was visited by Eowyn, but this similarly had no effect. I don't think I'm breaking any rules by sharing this, as this is as a result of someone else's actions performed on me, so I'll just share the gist of what I was told, and omit the potentially rule-violating info:
My action was not successful, and I received soup from another player, although this had no effect.
This seems to reinforce the idea that I was jailed, and I think soup could be a reference to Eowyn's scene in The Two Towers where she offers Aragorn some soup and he finds the stuff awful. At any rate, this is as much as I'm getting from Google. Will again ping @Doc to see if more can be gleamed here.
I'm guessing you don't know the person who is Eowyn? Thought maybe the soup thing could be like a fruit vendor role, but that doesn't work if you weren't told the player it was from.@Minish, what was the gist of what happened to you?
Gonna try to be careful here since I'm not sure what's fine with hinting and what's not. But it was not something that someone else did. It was a precaution I took myself. If anyone at all targeted me they might have a slight idea depending on their role.
Yeah, unfortunately I didn't get told who Eowyn was.
Post by: Laurentus on December 13, 2020, 09:55:01 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 13, 2020, 10:00:15 PM
I'm pretty sure I was jailed. I also wonder if that is why there's no night kill.
Actually do you have reason to believe it was a jailing or something else?
If you were jailed it could have been by mafia. We already had a town roleblocker flip. Though I'm going by ZD setups mostly here so might be off base. Mafia jails/blocks you and then tries to kill someone else to get two birds with one stone. If I picked up on something in what little of d2 I've read you would be less concern for mafia to possibly kill at this point as opposed to trying to hit something like cop/doctor.
I donut think it's anything like a mafia jailor especially if they can kill two birds with one stone.
I'm pretty sure I was jailed. I also wonder if that is why there's no night kill.
I have a hunch it has something to do with Hapi, as she has claimed something of the sort for the previous night. Is this partly your doing Hapi? If so, dang you're OP.
:-\
I will say my gambit didn't pay off because if it had there would've been a kill last night it just would've been a wolf who died.
Post by: TGN on December 13, 2020, 10:11:37 PM
is it bad i JUST realized what you meant by "Donut"?I'm pretty sure I was jailed. I also wonder if that is why there's no night kill.
Actually do you have reason to believe it was a jailing or something else?
If you were jailed it could have been by mafia. We already had a town roleblocker flip. Though I'm going by ZD setups mostly here so might be off base. Mafia jails/blocks you and then tries to kill someone else to get two birds with one stone. If I picked up on something in what little of d2 I've read you would be less concern for mafia to possibly kill at this point as opposed to trying to hit something like cop/doctor.
I donut think it's anything like a mafia jailor especially if they can kill two birds with one stone.I'm pretty sure I was jailed. I also wonder if that is why there's no night kill.I have a hunch it has something to do with Hapi, as she has claimed something of the sort for the previous night. Is this partly your doing Hapi? If so, dang you're OP.
:-\
I will say my gambit didn't pay off because if it had there would've been a kill last night it just would've been a wolf who died.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 13, 2020, 10:16:41 PM
is it bad i JUST realized what you meant by "Donut"?I'm pretty sure I was jailed. I also wonder if that is why there's no night kill.
Actually do you have reason to believe it was a jailing or something else?
If you were jailed it could have been by mafia. We already had a town roleblocker flip. Though I'm going by ZD setups mostly here so might be off base. Mafia jails/blocks you and then tries to kill someone else to get two birds with one stone. If I picked up on something in what little of d2 I've read you would be less concern for mafia to possibly kill at this point as opposed to trying to hit something like cop/doctor.
I donut think it's anything like a mafia jailor especially if they can kill two birds with one stone.I'm pretty sure I was jailed. I also wonder if that is why there's no night kill.I have a hunch it has something to do with Hapi, as she has claimed something of the sort for the previous night. Is this partly your doing Hapi? If so, dang you're OP.
:-\
I will say my gambit didn't pay off because if it had there would've been a kill last night it just would've been a wolf who died.
Maybe lol xD
Post by: Minish on December 13, 2020, 10:17:15 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 13, 2020, 11:07:17 PM
Post by: TGN on December 13, 2020, 11:33:33 PM
Satan Satan Satan!!oh dear god
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 13, 2020, 11:38:21 PM
2) TGN, turtle
3) Hapi, Sapph, Lau
4) Others
5) Not really sure to be honest, haven't had the time to follow closely enough.
6) None
7) None
Is Michi dead? I'm really confused here.
Post by: Red Mones on December 13, 2020, 11:51:31 PM
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 14, 2020, 12:32:37 AM
I also have reason to believe I was visited by Eowyn, but this similarly had no effect. I don't think I'm breaking any rules by sharing this, as this is as a result of someone else's actions performed on me, so I'll just share the gist of what I was told, and omit the potentially rule-violating info:OMFG Lau that was HILARIOUS. I'm dying :))
My action was not successful, and I received soup from another player, although this had no effect.
This seems to reinforce the idea that I was jailed, and I think soup could be a reference to Eowyn's scene in The Two Towers where she offers Aragorn some soup and he finds the stuff awful. At any rate, this is as much as I'm getting from Google. Will again ping @Doc to see if more can be gleamed here.
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 14, 2020, 12:33:33 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 14, 2020, 01:44:54 AM
Daws, Hapi, Moot
Town Lean
Lau, Wischland, Doc
By virtue of trusting you Lau, I will put BSR and Gerrick here temporarily
Null
ENE, Flying Eagles, HumanSanity, Wille-Harlia, Turtle, Ogun, TGN, Minish
Scum Lean:
Vroendal (Currently unconvinced by his defence of the past 2 days)
Post by: Dawsinian on December 14, 2020, 02:46:50 AM
Hmm, @Dawsinian, since you're already revealed, I'm guessing it doesn't much matter what you share or hint with us. Who'd you roleblock?
I also have reason to believe I was visited by Eowyn, but this similarly had no effect. I don't think I'm breaking any rules by sharing this, as this is as a result of someone else's actions performed on me, so I'll just share the gist of what I was told, and omit the potentially rule-violating info:I had you arrested for the night in hopes that if you were a target, you’d be protected for the evening. For now, at least, you’re too valuable to the town to be killed. Hope the cell wasn’t too bad ;)
My action was not successful, and I received soup from another player, although this had no effect.
This seems to reinforce the idea that I was jailed, and I think soup could be a reference to Eowyn's scene in The Two Towers where she offers Aragorn some soup and he finds the stuff awful. At any rate, this is as much as I'm getting from Google. Will again ping @Doc to see if more can be gleamed here.
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 04:50:32 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 04:51:36 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 04:53:08 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 04:55:07 AM
Town Core
Daws, Hapi, Moot
Town Lean
Lau, Wischland, Doc
By virtue of trusting you Lau, I will put BSR and Gerrick here temporarily
Null
ENE, Flying Eagles, HumanSanity, Wille-Harlia, Turtle, Ogun, TGN, Minish
Scum Lean:
Vroendal (Currently unconvinced by his defence of the past 2 days)
Interesting. Is Vro as a result of mechanics, or Moot?
Post by: Vroendal on December 14, 2020, 04:55:56 AM
So, roles. This one I'm gonna have to chalk up to first-time hosting. I really didn't think about it being an issue, and didn't really clarify because of it. It started out as characters who had roles (example: Theoden is a roleblocker), but then as the game became more complex and roles were added that weren't defined (afaik) roles, I changed it so that the characters were the roles (example: Dawsinian has the role of Theoden), and then each role had an ability (example: the Theoden role has the ability to block night actions, there is technically no roleblocker role, if that makes sense). This is why I put "roleblocker" in quotations when Dawsianian had died. He's technically not a roleblocker, but the action is literally the same, and I added the roleblocker definition as people needed a straightforward definition of roles that were/will be lost. Other complex roles will manifest themselves in other ways, so to speak. I don't know if this is understandable at all, but yeah that's what went on in my head when Ruguo and I were planning. Because of this confusion, there likely will be no enforcement of character (role) hinting, so don't assume anything based on this post or my enforcement or non-enforcement of the rule.
Post by: Red Mones on December 14, 2020, 05:20:48 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 05:54:16 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 06:11:54 AM
@Minish, you actually offer the chance to give a perspective I have been lacking on Vro so far, since he started playing over in ZD (and I don't know if he's played on Bulba, either). Could Wolf-Vro pull this off?
For reference, I will link to another game where he was Wolf where I placed him much more easily, but that was a while ago and I am sure he would have become a lot better by now: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6575.0
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 06:15:48 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 14, 2020, 06:47:46 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 06:59:34 AM
I really think many of the wolves are just playing quieter and we need to focus on the players who are barely here like Doc, Moot ect.
Fair enough. I'm going to point out that if Sapph says Moot is Town, I believe him. That said, why Doc and Moot?
Post by: Sapphiron on December 14, 2020, 07:13:02 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 07:15:09 AM
Alright, so it could track that you think she's doing a repeat here, but I'm having severe issues with your certainty. To me, it seems like the logical next step to an established pattern of behaviour would be to use it to the benefit of scum, as well, particularly if, by doing so, she can make players like you unquestionably accept her as Town, to the point of being 100% certain. That almost seems like too much information, in fact. It also seems uncharacteristic for someone as sharp as you to not consider the clear scum-benefits this could accrue if used correctly.My certainty as you put it is not based only on the factors of possibility I personally observe, but rather a combination of that, my gut reads, and the direction the game is taking. I may also say that if more information comes up that I find relevant I may refute my certainty. I'm not telling you or anyone else to think of her as clear, this is just my own personal opinion. That being said I do feel that scanning her is a rather bad choice for tonight and felt the need to state that. Ofc I have considered that she is pulling one over on me/us, I even mentioned that she could be purposefully misleading us, but that is just not clicking true in my head right now. I see what you mean about using it for the benefit of scum for sure, but I'm not seeing it yet. As of what is characteristic for me, I don't think that's a very strong base anyway for determining my alignment, I'm still finding my own playstyle, not having much experience.
It's a sharp observation that Wolf-me would want to do this as a tactic not to be scanned N1, for once, but that also seems rather lazer focused. I don't recall you showing much of an interest in any scumspects besides Gerrick, up to this point, and Gerrick can be considered rather low-hanging fruit. You have not appeared overtly solvey, and based on your interaction with Sapph, I am beginning to suspect that you have been waiting to try and see if you can case me. Not taking into consideration that I do not have that much knowledge of Hapi as you do is equally eye-raising.
I would think you would understand why I would be lazar-focused on you. You've been very active and have talked a lot, and I find myself growing increasingly wary of people in the position of taking over the town, justifiably so. I also consider that you may be using your position as the experienced player to appear townie to our newcomers as well. Setting yourself up as the (idk really what I mean here but I know what I see dang it) spokesperson they should talk to puts a lot of authority on yourself and could be used to farther the goals of scum should you be one. I mentioned that I town-read you earlier, that does not mean you still can't be wolf. Just because I've been using Gerrick publicly does not mean I'm not sussing anyone else, it just means he's the one I'm most comfortable pushing right now. Ofc I've been trying to case you, you set yourself up in a very strong position from D1. I don't know exactly what you mean by solvey. I don't understand what part of it is eye-raising specifically, could you please elaborate?
Basically Lau, I have my own opinions on the players and the actions they've taken, and I'm using my own logic and knowledge to justify it as far I as feel comfortable doing so. I don't expect people to follow me, I want them to follow themselves (preferably in the direction I'm going but that's just my bias :p). I reserve the right to let my own opinions to influence what I say and the actions I take. There's probably more I could say but I've already written a lot and I don't want to wax on about this.
It's not just a play-style thing, it's a question of competence. You are competent enough and, I would imagine, realistic enough to see the clear red flags of placing your faith so fully in Hapi. You're also being extraordinarily evasive about what makes you this certain. Just saying "my gut" and "the direction of the game" is not showing me your progression, and the irony is not lost on me that I'm calling you out for said evasive ess, either. Unfortunately for players like you, once you have shown yourself to be have that much potential, any logical inconsistency or irrational move you make will scream sus to me. And there is a clear contradiction in your thought-patterns here, as well. If you considered that she's pulling one over on us, you cannot simultaneously be completely certain. Especially if you don't show me the progression about how you got from "yeah, this is potentially a bit screwy" to "bruh, you're about to waste a night power and also how dare you try and be evasive again." I would also like to point out that I became ever so slightly concerned about her possibility to false-claim exactly because of your post mentioning the possibility of a ploy.
As for why your point about being laser-focused and justifiably so, again, there is a clear lack of progression in how you got to this. You stated very early on that this is just my usual MO, so I don't understand why you'd focus on that more than so much else happening right now. Certainly, I can have a devastating impact on the game if I am a Wolf and have positioned myself as Town leader, but worrying about this to the exclusion of all else is damaging to Town, because 1) It would absolutely be in the Wolves' best interest to remove said Town leader, especially in a game where there are so many new players who would just faff about aimlessly if not provided with direction, and 2) you are not getting any useful insights from any other players. "You have been very active and talked a lot" is also not exactly the best reason to be wary. What has the content of my posts been? Can you case those? (Yes, I know you're going to focus on the "Lau is evading the night scan!" angle, and yes, that's valid and I'm quite impressed by it, but you are not getting a free pass by virtue of only one thing you've finally been able to nail me with).
The part that was eye-raising is that your own experience with Hapi clearly played a big role in your alleged certainty in her Town status, and the truthfulness of her claim (I've already shown the inconsistency of your thought process and progression to this, so that's not what I'm focusing on now), yet you didn't consider that I was not a witness to those past actions myself, and then jumped straight to casing me about it instead of filling me in on the context that I was clearly sorely in need of.
Your last paragraph is basically just reiterating a point you already made in your first paragraph, and is a conclusion that I don't see as necessary, either, because I didn't accuse you of trying to sway people's votes or opinions in the first place.
So I'm stuck in a predicament. Do I try and get you voted off already, because you have now become my own main scumspect, but also risk losing a damn essential player if you are actually misguided Town, or do I keep you around with the risk that you just laser-focus on me the whole damn game and we derail the whole thread with our bickering?
And I am still stuck with this paranoia. *Face-palm*
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 14, 2020, 07:19:01 AM
I really think many of the wolves are just playing quieter and we need to focus on the players who are barely here like Doc, Moot ect.
Fair enough. I'm going to point out that if Sapph says Moot is Town, I believe him. That said, why Doc and Moot?
Cause they've just mysteriously disappeared as we've eaten each other. I do trust Sapph though so my mistake there.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 14, 2020, 07:20:04 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 07:33:57 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 14, 2020, 07:38:28 AM
Hmm, @Sapph, would you say Vro's scum cred with you is also somewhat influenced by your new-found belief in Moot's innocence?To a certain extent yep, which is why I am not aggressively pushing against Vro yet
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 07:49:48 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 14, 2020, 08:32:15 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 09:27:58 AM
Also, no, I'm not going to be lulled into accepting age and inexperience as an excuse anymore. TGN insisted that he was gut-reading Vro as scum, and stuck to that explanation when confronted by Sapph, too. Yet when I prodded a short while later, he just handwaved it away and said Michi explained it clearly in his post. And then he just flopped right off that when Vro... did something. I don't even know what I'm looking at.Willie is my best choice because he wasn't mentioned as being on the chopping block for mod kills, has played WW before and is more likely to strategize on leaving me to be lynched, has been somewhat active though not posting on a region that isn't his own (cheap shot I know but I don't see who else fits better), and has offered up nothing much in terms of votes or opinions.
And why is Willie your best choice?
Currently re-reading the thread and stumbled upon this again.
@Wille-Harlia, can you retort to this, please?
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 11:38:16 AM
What is your reads list?I'm currently at work, so I really can't write out a whole thing.
But one change I will note from my last read list is that Vro has started to lean towards scum for me. Also not completely counting out Wischland like everyone else.
Red just posted the results as I was typing... Wow we got lucky with that one. Also, what role could possibly resurrect people?
I am currently ISOing everyone and came across this again. Why do you not feel so hot about Wisch, Gerrick? (Don't know if your read has changed)
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 11:44:49 AM
Well, seeing as how I need to vote for either Vroendal or Michi to save myself... Hard choice, though, as both are among my scum-leans.
Vote: Vroendal. I don't buy his reasoning on making the Dawsinian wagon a majority. Why was he more confident in making the kill for Dawsinian over the other two, or rather make a four-way tie similarly to what I had done? Also, he's playing quite similarly to the Portal Werewolf game where he was a wolf. In that game, he also voted for a random, non-wagon player in such a circumstance as this.
Finding this in your ISO, too. And it's a good point. Didn't spot it at the time, as it was around the start of the Hapi-madness.
@Vroendal, your response?
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 01:53:38 PM
And I see we've come back around to Vro in the scum lists. The thing is, his tone just sounds so pure, but his actions are telling a different story.
@Minish, you actually offer the chance to give a perspective I have been lacking on Vro so far, since he started playing over in ZD (and I don't know if he's played on Bulba, either). Could Wolf-Vro pull this off?
For reference, I will link to another game where he was Wolf where I placed him much more easily, but that was a while ago and I am sure he would have become a lot better by now: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6575.0
Vro's actually not from ZD. The only time I've played with him (I believe) was Silver's first Portal game and that was only for a very, very short time since he subbed in before it was restarted.
That said, he seemed to be the biggest threat to our scum team then when he subbed in, so my idea of him is he's a strong scum hunter. I don't want to put too much pressure on him for that though since it was a very limited amount I saw of him. But that is in the back of my mind while reading him this game. And I haven't quite seen that fire to find scum that I did in Portal.
Are there any people we can seem to trust mechanically? I believe you (Laur) and Daws are two. Not sure if any other info came out d2. (There's the slight paranoia that Laur is scum and Daws is town resurrected as scum but that's a paranoia thought for later).
I think Vro is probably the best vote today (barring anything that might have happened d2 that I haven't read yet). He has a lot of suspicion around him, he's had at least one interesting reads list, and I feel like he's had a lot of connections so that if he does flip scum it'll help narrow the others down.
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 01:56:35 PM
Lock Town:
BraveSirRobin (8, 1,26%)
Dawsinian (10, 1,57%)
Laurentus (229, 35,95%)
Town Core:
Doc (8, 1,26%) - Not afraid to stick to his guns about the Michi vote, not overly mouthy like I would expect from Scum-Doc. Potential soft-spot for new players which could prove to be a mistake. Generally quite quiet as Town, and tries to drown out all hints and clues with sheer info and chaff when scum. Seems to be on Town meta. None can say he hasn't been looking for scum.
Gerrick (26, 4,08%) - Has had an unusually tough time of it this game. Usually gets by by lurking and observing, and making data-based reads rather than gut-reads. Usually dies quite early, too, if memory serves, so would have been a prime kill target on N1, yet didn't die. I am really struggling to make any other reads on him. He has told me before that I am always his N1 scan choice as Seer, because I lead the discussion and drive the activity, so it does make sense that he would want to save me from a potential D1 lynch. I am a bit surprised about the target he ended up choosing to make things equal and give me a better chance of surviving the D1 lynch, though. I am a bit conflicted about his reads on Vro, especially early on, because to me, it seemed there was a clear wolfiness to them. At the end of the day, I have mechanical reason to place him in my Core, but will have to continuously reevaluate. Personally, I find that he's willing to go against the grain of people's opinions about TGN and turtle to be a good sign that this is Town-Gerrick. Is actively hunting scum now that his neck's no longer on the line, too.
Hapi (93, 14,60%) - It's fucking Hapi. She drives me insane, she's chaotic, and she lies. She's Also Town Core until Sapph says otherwise.
Sapphiron (43, 6,75%)- Razor sharp reasoning, critical of most everyone's posts, not actively pushing an agenda like I would expect from scum-Sapph (like with poor old Syraj back in the day). Also definitely not falling into lurky Wolf-meta. One of the people I trust the most.
Wintermoot (18, 2,83%)- If Sapph says he's Town, then I am inclined to trust until given reason not to.
Town Leans:
Dawcreek/Minish (13, 2,04%) - Dawcreek never posted, but his sub, Minish, can be characterised as hard-working, logical, analytical. Actively hunting scum. Currently seems to be leaning towards Vro being scum, could provide me with an interesting perspective to that.
turtle (13, 2,04%) - Actually willing to call me out, which will always earn you some town-cred from me. I am actually town-leaning, which might make people raise their eyebrows, but his lurking feels more genuinely lost and confused, as opposed to TGN's. His admission that he doesn't know also came much later, but gonna have to agree with Gerrick here, if I were a Wolf, I would most-def have told both him and TGN to play up the innocent child schtick.
Wischland (19, 2,98%) - I would like to place him as Core, just because of how wonderfully clear his thought process is, and generally being a very enjoyable player to play with, but that vote on Daws was… not great. Would like to see him post more often.
Nulls:
Eastern New England (2, 0,31%) - Has said 2 things. Need to pressurise and see how they respond.
Flying Eagles (18, 2,83%) - His wariness of me is probably understandable, and amusingly enough actually potentially a sign of not being in the scum-chat, because if there are Wolves who know me, then they would probably have filled him in on my general play style. I don't like that he doesn't actively seem to be hunting scum, even though he's got 18 posts, which is actually a lot when so many players are so inactive. So one slightly scummy thing and one slightly townie thing puts him in my nulls.
HumanSanity (3, 0,47%) - Claims to be busy, no reason to speculate otherwise. Has not contributed anything while here, though.
ogunbiyi6422 (6, 0,94%) - Unclear how much WW/Mafia he's played (actually not so unclear anymore, just wasn't clear when I made this note), but not voting in the first round is almost always a bad call. NAI, but not liking it. REALLY not liking his 3rd post of the game, where he votes for Michi, in what seems like the path of least resistance. Defends himself against Wisch's reads list by referring back to his 3rd post, and says "if that doesn't tell you 'town lean' then I don't know what to tell you." Is that even a serious defense? Was the only person to call my late-phase vote switch onto Vro as sus. Gotta respect him for that. Still, too much lurking, and when posting, not doing so for good reasons, most of the time. Into nulls you go.
Wille-Harlia (3, 0,47%) - The dreaded Wille-Harlia. Who's made 3 very uncontroversial posts, and one of them I actually found very illuminating to make sense of their fellow XKIers' tendencies. So I am incredibly confused why Vro wants to off them, rather than someone like ogunbiyi or Human Sanity. All the reasons he gave for Willie equally apply to all the quiet/busy players in the game.
Scum leans:
TGN (26, 4,08%)- It's hard to make a judgment when he's so new to this, but I just really don't like his play-style. I kinda get the gut-feeling that he's been given the scum role in his first ever game (and if this is the case, yeah, I would honestly have preferred that his alignment be changed post-rand, like I'll sometimes do for certain players as host), and has no idea how to play the part of a townie, so he's just looking busy. I also don't like that so many people are just going to give him a free-pass by virtue of being so new and young. Like, sorry, I'm probably a monster, but that just doesn't sit well with me.
Scum:
Vroendal (79, 12,40%) - Seemed lazer-focused on me from the word go. I can and should be questioned, but I am honestly still feeling like there was an ulterior motive to it. This lazer-focus can be seen the moment he asks Sapph what Sapph's opinion is of me at this very moment. I don't think this was likely to be random at all. Equally valid people to ask would have been Pengu (who knows my meta better than just about anyone), Doc or even Wintermoot. Why go straight for the person I would characterise as my arch-nemesis in Werewolf? (BTW, Sapph, no offence meant <3). This lazer-focus is also in clear view when he later probes me about what I had said once in a previous game about Gerrick's lurking. His thought-progression is riddled with contradictions when it comes to Hapi, and he doesn't showcase his progression to finding me sus at all, beyond not liking how easily I take over the thread and "how much I talk". When not lazer-focusing on me, his posts lack substance almost completely. Caused the Daws lynch at the end of the day phase but in his defence, probably not *that* sus as far as reasons go, but definitely when it comes to timing. His interrogation of Moot feels breathtakingly weak looking back. He doesn't actually address much of it to Moot, and seems desperate to move on from the topic of TGN's supposed purity, citing Doc's defense as iron-clad (you can bet how this makes me feel about TGN's status right now). Immediately starts peddling the theory after the Daws mislynch that the wolves are among the lurkers, which supports Gerrick's observation. As soon as D2 starts and Daws comes back, he begins throwing shade at me again. His first reads list does not contain any reasons for his leanings (yeah, upon reflection, that's super dodge). He also did not react well to me propping up two of my scumspects as not only town leans, but Town Core, of all things. And by "did not react well", I mean there was literally no reaction. Instead he cases me for the previous day's Daws lynch. Bit of an odd choice to find me suspicious for that, when I just did something to wildly strange. I could go on in a similar vein from here, but at this point, I am starting to think I'm just lazer-focusing on him because he lazer-focused me, and I can't be objective.
So with all that out of the way: Vote: Vroendal
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 01:58:26 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 01:59:46 PM
And I see we've come back around to Vro in the scum lists. The thing is, his tone just sounds so pure, but his actions are telling a different story.
@Minish, you actually offer the chance to give a perspective I have been lacking on Vro so far, since he started playing over in ZD (and I don't know if he's played on Bulba, either). Could Wolf-Vro pull this off?
For reference, I will link to another game where he was Wolf where I placed him much more easily, but that was a while ago and I am sure he would have become a lot better by now: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6575.0
Vro's actually not from ZD. The only time I've played with him (I believe) was Silver's first Portal game and that was only for a very, very short time since he subbed in before it was restarted.
That said, he seemed to be the biggest threat to our scum team then when he subbed in, so my idea of him is he's a strong scum hunter. I don't want to put too much pressure on him for that though since it was a very limited amount I saw of him. But that is in the back of my mind while reading him this game. And I haven't quite seen that fire to find scum that I did in Portal.
Are there any people we can seem to trust mechanically? I believe you (Laur) and Daws are two. Not sure if any other info came out d2. (There's the slight paranoia that Laur is scum and Daws is town resurrected as scum but that's a paranoia thought for later).
I think Vro is probably the best vote today (barring anything that might have happened d2 that I haven't read yet). He has a lot of suspicion around him, he's had at least one interesting reads list, and I feel like he's had a lot of connections so that if he does flip scum it'll help narrow the others down.
Yeah, I know he's actually from here, but I was wondering if he had perhaps played a few games with you.
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 02:16:28 PM
Also, care to explain why BSR is lock town? I'm sure I'll get to it at some point in my catch up (sorry it's going slow, only try to catch up when I'm on laptop).
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Oh wait, I think I also played a game with Vro on Bulba. Spongebob Mafia I believe. Will have to recheck that game because Vro might have been scum. And I know mafia won in a clean sweep. I feel like he was mafia and was the least suspected one. So he can definitely play a good scum game if so.
Also, care to explain why BSR is lock town? I'm sure I'll get to it at some point in my catch up (sorry it's going slow, only try to catch up when I'm on laptop).
That's actually part of BSR's own ability, but it is mechanical.
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 02:33:54 PM
Also everyone, based on game mechanics, I can lock-confirm Lau is good. Not sure if that helps people generally, but good to know either way.
@Minish, basically something happened between me and BSR on N1, and I've had him in my core ever since.
Post by: TGN on December 14, 2020, 03:00:18 PM
Okay, so I read through everyone's ISOs, and based on it, have compiled a reads list as follows. Also a note on PoEs. It stands for Process of Elimination, and the idea is that you work your way up the list when deciding who to lynch. Interesting conclusion, too: It does seem like there might be lurking Wolves, just by the sheer number of null reads. I am also counting 637 votes, here, which differs from the thread's count of 695, which worries me. If you see I've missed anyone, please let me know. I also thought I'd include post counts, as best as I can see them with that print page trick Gerrick mentioned, and include percentages of the game's posts they've contributed.this is why I like the list, very clear to me.
Lock Town:
BraveSirRobin (8, 1,26%)
Dawsinian (10, 1,57%)
Laurentus (229, 35,95%)
Town Core:
Doc (8, 1,26%) - Not afraid to stick to his guns about the Michi vote, not overly mouthy like I would expect from Scum-Doc. Potential soft-spot for new players which could prove to be a mistake. Generally quite quiet as Town, and tries to drown out all hints and clues with sheer info and chaff when scum. Seems to be on Town meta. None can say he hasn't been looking for scum.
Gerrick (26, 4,08%) - Has had an unusually tough time of it this game. Usually gets by by lurking and observing, and making data-based reads rather than gut-reads. Usually dies quite early, too, if memory serves, so would have been a prime kill target on N1, yet didn't die. I am really struggling to make any other reads on him. He has told me before that I am always his N1 scan choice as Seer, because I lead the discussion and drive the activity, so it does make sense that he would want to save me from a potential D1 lynch. I am a bit surprised about the target he ended up choosing to make things equal and give me a better chance of surviving the D1 lynch, though. I am a bit conflicted about his reads on Vro, especially early on, because to me, it seemed there was a clear wolfiness to them. At the end of the day, I have mechanical reason to place him in my Core, but will have to continuously reevaluate. Personally, I find that he's willing to go against the grain of people's opinions about TGN and turtle to be a good sign that this is Town-Gerrick. Is actively hunting scum now that his neck's no longer on the line, too.
Hapi (93, 14,60%) - It's fucking Hapi. She drives me insane, she's chaotic, and she lies. She's Also Town Core until Sapph says otherwise.
Sapphiron (43, 6,75%)- Razor sharp reasoning, critical of most everyone's posts, not actively pushing an agenda like I would expect from scum-Sapph (like with poor old Syraj back in the day). Also definitely not falling into lurky Wolf-meta. One of the people I trust the most.
Wintermoot (18, 2,83%)- If Sapph says he's Town, then I am inclined to trust until given reason not to.
Town Leans:
Dawcreek/Minish (13, 2,04%) - Dawcreek never posted, but his sub, Minish, can be characterised as hard-working, logical, analytical. Actively hunting scum. Currently seems to be leaning towards Vro being scum, could provide me with an interesting perspective to that.
turtle (13, 2,04%) - Actually willing to call me out, which will always earn you some town-cred from me. I am actually town-leaning, which might make people raise their eyebrows, but his lurking feels more genuinely lost and confused, as opposed to TGN's. His admission that he doesn't know also came much later, but gonna have to agree with Gerrick here, if I were a Wolf, I would most-def have told both him and TGN to play up the innocent child schtick.
Wischland (19, 2,98%) - I would like to place him as Core, just because of how wonderfully clear his thought process is, and generally being a very enjoyable player to play with, but that vote on Daws was… not great. Would like to see him post more often.
Nulls:
Eastern New England (2, 0,31%) - Has said 2 things. Need to pressurise and see how they respond.
Flying Eagles (18, 2,83%) - His wariness of me is probably understandable, and amusingly enough actually potentially a sign of not being in the scum-chat, because if there are Wolves who know me, then they would probably have filled him in on my general play style. I don't like that he doesn't actively seem to be hunting scum, even though he's got 18 posts, which is actually a lot when so many players are so inactive. So one slightly scummy thing and one slightly townie thing puts him in my nulls.
HumanSanity (3, 0,47%) - Claims to be busy, no reason to speculate otherwise. Has not contributed anything while here, though.
ogunbiyi6422 (6, 0,94%) - Unclear how much WW/Mafia he's played (actually not so unclear anymore, just wasn't clear when I made this note), but not voting in the first round is almost always a bad call. NAI, but not liking it. REALLY not liking his 3rd post of the game, where he votes for Michi, in what seems like the path of least resistance. Defends himself against Wisch's reads list by referring back to his 3rd post, and says "if that doesn't tell you 'town lean' then I don't know what to tell you." Is that even a serious defense? Was the only person to call my late-phase vote switch onto Vro as sus. Gotta respect him for that. Still, too much lurking, and when posting, not doing so for good reasons, most of the time. Into nulls you go.
Wille-Harlia (3, 0,47%) - The dreaded Wille-Harlia. Who's made 3 very uncontroversial posts, and one of them I actually found very illuminating to make sense of their fellow XKIers' tendencies. So I am incredibly confused why Vro wants to off them, rather than someone like ogunbiyi or Human Sanity. All the reasons he gave for Willie equally apply to all the quiet/busy players in the game.
Scum leans:
TGN (26, 4,08%)- It's hard to make a judgment when he's so new to this, but I just really don't like his play-style. I kinda get the gut-feeling that he's been given the scum role in his first ever game (and if this is the case, yeah, I would honestly have preferred that his alignment be changed post-rand, like I'll sometimes do for certain players as host), and has no idea how to play the part of a townie, so he's just looking busy. I also don't like that so many people are just going to give him a free-pass by virtue of being so new and young. Like, sorry, I'm probably a monster, but that just doesn't sit well with me.
Scum:
Vroendal (79, 12,40%) - Seemed lazer-focused on me from the word go. I can and should be questioned, but I am honestly still feeling like there was an ulterior motive to it. This lazer-focus can be seen the moment he asks Sapph what Sapph's opinion is of me at this very moment. I don't think this was likely to be random at all. Equally valid people to ask would have been Pengu (who knows my meta better than just about anyone), Doc or even Wintermoot. Why go straight for the person I would characterise as my arch-nemesis in Werewolf? (BTW, Sapph, no offence meant <3). This lazer-focus is also in clear view when he later probes me about what I had said once in a previous game about Gerrick's lurking. His thought-progression is riddled with contradictions when it comes to Hapi, and he doesn't showcase his progression to finding me sus at all, beyond not liking how easily I take over the thread and "how much I talk". When not lazer-focusing on me, his posts lack substance almost completely. Caused the Daws lynch at the end of the day phase but in his defence, probably not *that* sus as far as reasons go, but definitely when it comes to timing. His interrogation of Moot feels breathtakingly weak looking back. He doesn't actually address much of it to Moot, and seems desperate to move on from the topic of TGN's supposed purity, citing Doc's defense as iron-clad (you can bet how this makes me feel about TGN's status right now). Immediately starts peddling the theory after the Daws mislynch that the wolves are among the lurkers, which supports Gerrick's observation. As soon as D2 starts and Daws comes back, he begins throwing shade at me again. His first reads list does not contain any reasons for his leanings (yeah, upon reflection, that's super dodge). He also did not react well to me propping up two of my scumspects as not only town leans, but Town Core, of all things. And by "did not react well", I mean there was literally no reaction. Instead he cases me for the previous day's Daws lynch. Bit of an odd choice to find me suspicious for that, when I just did something to wildly strange. I could go on in a similar vein from here, but at this point, I am starting to think I'm just lazer-focusing on him because he lazer-focused me, and I can't be objective.
So with all that out of the way: Vote: Vroendal
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 03:07:50 PM
Also everyone, based on game mechanics, I can lock-confirm Lau is good. Not sure if that helps people generally, but good to know either way.
@Minish, basically something happened between me and BSR on N1, and I've had him in my core ever since.
Got it.
If anyone else is actually Aragorn I'm gonna be pretty upset with you for not "countering" Hapi. So I'm gonna put Hapi in the town group for now.
If you trust me Laur (and if I ever flip that will just make this more trustworthy), we never lynch from this group and then PoE from the rest.
Town
Me
Laur
Daws
Turtle
BSR
Hapi
Other
Doc
Eastern New England
Flying Eagles
Gerrick
HumanSanity
ogunbiyi6422
Sapphiron
The Greenlandic North
Vroendal
Wille-Harlia
Wintermoot
Wischland
If anyone has invest roles, anyone in this group is a good target.
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 03:09:37 PM
Also everyone, based on game mechanics, I can lock-confirm Lau is good. Not sure if that helps people generally, but good to know either way.
@Minish, basically something happened between me and BSR on N1, and I've had him in my core ever since.
Got it.
If anyone else is actually Aragorn I'm gonna be pretty upset with you for not "countering" Hapi. So I'm gonna put Hapi in the town group for now.
If you trust me Laur (and if I ever flip that will just make this more trustworthy), we never lynch from this group and then PoE from the rest.
Town
Me
Laur
Daws
Turtle
BSR
Hapi
Other
Doc
Eastern New England
Flying Eagles
Gerrick
HumanSanity
ogunbiyi6422
Sapphiron
The Greenlandic North
Vroendal
Wille-Harlia
Wintermoot
Wischland
If anyone has invest roles, anyone in this group is a good target.
I would easily add Sapph in there, but otherwise that squares with my thinking.
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 03:32:46 PM
Also everyone, based on game mechanics, I can lock-confirm Lau is good. Not sure if that helps people generally, but good to know either way.
@Minish, basically something happened between me and BSR on N1, and I've had him in my core ever since.
Got it.
If anyone else is actually Aragorn I'm gonna be pretty upset with you for not "countering" Hapi. So I'm gonna put Hapi in the town group for now.
If you trust me Laur (and if I ever flip that will just make this more trustworthy), we never lynch from this group and then PoE from the rest.
Town
Me
Laur
Daws
Turtle
BSR
Hapi
Other
Doc
Eastern New England
Flying Eagles
Gerrick
HumanSanity
ogunbiyi6422
Sapphiron
The Greenlandic North
Vroendal
Wille-Harlia
Wintermoot
Wischland
If anyone has invest roles, anyone in this group is a good target.
I would easily add Sapph in there, but otherwise that squares with my thinking.
Not up to date on any Sapph stuff. He seemed scummy to me on the d1 read through but that wasn't much to go on.
But we can definitely even divide the other list into two separate lists of don't want to lynch now and then PoE.
As is, the other list is 1/3 scum so not too bad of odds hitting mafia in that. But even if we could remove 4 more town leans from that list then we would have a 50/50 shot at scum.
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 03:36:34 PM
Doc
Eastern New England
Flying Eagles
Gerrick
HumanSanity
ogunbiyi6422
Sapphiron
The Greenlandic North
Vroendal
Wille-Harlia
Wintermoot
Wischland
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 04:07:19 PM
I was distracted earlier, but noticed you added him into the list of non-PoE candidates.
And yeah, if you read Sapph's D2, I would honestly be surprised if you don't come to the same conclusion as I do.
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 04:27:35 PM
Actually, wait, @Minish, why turtle?
I was distracted earlier, but noticed you added him into the list of non-PoE candidates.
And yeah, if you read Sapph's D2, I would honestly be surprised if you don't come to the same conclusion as I do.
I have very good reason. He's on the same tier as Daws in regards to confirmation for me.
Post by: Vroendal on December 14, 2020, 04:45:37 PM
I had agreed with Gerrick's reasons for choosing Daws over the other three that were candidates to be tied, and I broke the tie to maximize the chances that we lynch scum, seeing as I didn't think you or Michi were scum and tying it again didn't seem to be a good idea considering there was still risk and I was less trusting of Daws than the others.Well, seeing as how I need to vote for either Vroendal or Michi to save myself... Hard choice, though, as both are among my scum-leans.I understand voting me to save yourself. However, I find it rather ironic that you would question my reason for voting Daws as opposed to forming another tie, as I had cited your reasons. I didn't want a tie bc that was still a chance of killing Lau/Michi. I would also like to remind you that in the Portal game I was purposefully setting myself up to be lynched, following my role. This is a new game and an entirely different situation.
Vote: Vroendal. I don't buy his reasoning on making the Dawsinian wagon a majority. Why was he more confident in making the kill for Dawsinian over the other two, or rather make a four-way tie similarly to what I had done? Also, he's playing quite similarly to the Portal Werewolf game where he was a wolf. In that game, he also voted for a random, non-wagon player in such a circumstance as this.
Vroendal (79, 12,40%) - Seemed lazer-focused on me from the word go. I can and should be questioned, but I am honestly still feeling like there was an ulterior motive to it. This lazer-focus can be seen the moment he asks Sapph what Sapph's opinion is of me at this very moment. I don't think this was likely to be random at all. Equally valid people to ask would have been Pengu (who knows my meta better than just about anyone), Doc or even Wintermoot. Why go straight for the person I would characterise as my arch-nemesis in Werewolf? (BTW, Sapph, no offence meant <3). This lazer-focus is also in clear view when he later probes me about what I had said once in a previous game about Gerrick's lurking. His thought-progression is riddled with contradictions when it comes to Hapi, and he doesn't showcase his progression to finding me sus at all, beyond not liking how easily I take over the thread and "how much I talk". When not lazer-focusing on me, his posts lack substance almost completely. Caused the Daws lynch at the end of the day phase but in his defence, probably not *that* sus as far as reasons go, but definitely when it comes to timing. His interrogation of Moot feels breathtakingly weak looking back. He doesn't actually address much of it to Moot, and seems desperate to move on from the topic of TGN's supposed purity, citing Doc's defense as iron-clad (you can bet how this makes me feel about TGN's status right now). Immediately starts peddling the theory after the Daws mislynch that the wolves are among the lurkers, which supports Gerrick's observation. As soon as D2 starts and Daws comes back, he begins throwing shade at me again. His first reads list does not contain any reasons for his leanings (yeah, upon reflection, that's super dodge). He also did not react well to me propping up two of my scumspects as not only town leans, but Town Core, of all things. And by "did not react well", I mean there was literally no reaction. Instead he cases me for the previous day's Daws lynch. Bit of an odd choice to find me suspicious for that, when I just did something to wildly strange. I could go on in a similar vein from here, but at this point, I am starting to think I'm just lazer-focusing on him because he lazer-focused me, and I can't be objective.There's not much I can do to allay your paranoia about ulterior motives short of me dying, I'm beginning to accept that maybe I do need to die just to get you asking the questions where they need to be asked. I chose Sapph for mainly 2 reasons: I knew that he was your nemesis, I had read about somewhere, I honestly don't remember where now, and I felt that if Sapph often came into contention with you he would be the most likely to see anything unusual starting from D1. I also knew that you would develop your own opinions on him based on his answer and that could be helpful. I said I didn't really have a good reason at the time, but I was still casing you. Also, I did also just want to take to people I hadn't talked to before, nothing much to that. As to Pengu, Doc, or Moot being a better choice, I just decided on Sapph.
So with all that out of the way: Vote: Vroendal
As for lacking substance in my posts, I just lack the motivation to overanalyze every single little thing that I could see that might point to someone being this or that, I grow weary of posting a lot, it's definitely not my usual MO. As for lazar-focusing on you, it was only D1, there weren't any big revelations yet from lynches or kills, if I was going to case someone first one of the best options would be you based on my observations from the first Portal game. If I could eliminate a wolf that would be very likely to take over town from D1 that would be instrumental in town's victory.
As for Moot, that one was an actual mistake on my part. I was feeling targeted and wanted to deflect on someone else because the stress was getting a little much for D1, I haven't played WW for months this has been rough. :/ I kinda just invented reasons half-heartedly and hoped Moot would slip up and say something that actually hinted to him being wolf.
I wanted to move on from TGN because he was and still is the most likely player to be town who is not mechanically cleared. I think Doc laid out TGN's defense quite well in the beginning and I fully agree with it. I must also mention that you could be more trusting of Doc if you're not trusting of me on this because we both read the RMB quite often and TGN is one of the most profilic posters there. If it turns out I'm wrong, so be it but for now I'm not going to push him.
I threw shade at you because I had just considered the possibility that it could be both you and Michi based on that you Lau apparently like to push another wolf as a wolf yourself, I wanted to raise the possibility and not get fooled for the rest of the game.
I responded to your propping up of cores as well, a reminder that you had made this statement AFTER N1, and I had no idea what your role was. It seemed likely to me based on your certainty that you had copped at least one and for the other had seen something that made you certain in a post. I didn't know what this could be, but I decided not to press the issue to keep from revealing too much possible town information D2. You not switching to Daws seemed to be the more likely wolf maneuver to me, and thus the one that I should press.
I am going to issue a suggestion. We keep returning to me, so obviously you're not going to just leave me alone to go focus on who you should focus on. So I'll lead you there. I suggest that I lead a vote against someone you scum lean today. If they're town, either a town killing role kills me tonight or you lynch me the next day. If they're wolf, someone can investigate me tonight. If you don't trust the result, we do the same thing again.
This would be a very bad choice to do as wolf, because either I get fellow wolves killed uselessly when I could just give up and die today, or I would eliminate one more option for who it could be, narrowing in on the wolves. If you don't agree to this and decide to lynch me, ok. That would be a misplay, but a more understandable one. Once my role is revealed I think you'll understand a lot more.
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 05:09:28 PM
I had made a response here Lau to Gerrick -I had agreed with Gerrick's reasons for choosing Daws over the other three that were candidates to be tied, and I broke the tie to maximize the chances that we lynch scum, seeing as I didn't think you or Michi were scum and tying it again didn't seem to be a good idea considering there was still risk and I was less trusting of Daws than the others.Well, seeing as how I need to vote for either Vroendal or Michi to save myself... Hard choice, though, as both are among my scum-leans.I understand voting me to save yourself. However, I find it rather ironic that you would question my reason for voting Daws as opposed to forming another tie, as I had cited your reasons. I didn't want a tie bc that was still a chance of killing Lau/Michi. I would also like to remind you that in the Portal game I was purposefully setting myself up to be lynched, following my role. This is a new game and an entirely different situation.
Vote: Vroendal. I don't buy his reasoning on making the Dawsinian wagon a majority. Why was he more confident in making the kill for Dawsinian over the other two, or rather make a four-way tie similarly to what I had done? Also, he's playing quite similarly to the Portal Werewolf game where he was a wolf. In that game, he also voted for a random, non-wagon player in such a circumstance as this.Vroendal (79, 12,40%) - Seemed lazer-focused on me from the word go. I can and should be questioned, but I am honestly still feeling like there was an ulterior motive to it. This lazer-focus can be seen the moment he asks Sapph what Sapph's opinion is of me at this very moment. I don't think this was likely to be random at all. Equally valid people to ask would have been Pengu (who knows my meta better than just about anyone), Doc or even Wintermoot. Why go straight for the person I would characterise as my arch-nemesis in Werewolf? (BTW, Sapph, no offence meant <3). This lazer-focus is also in clear view when he later probes me about what I had said once in a previous game about Gerrick's lurking. His thought-progression is riddled with contradictions when it comes to Hapi, and he doesn't showcase his progression to finding me sus at all, beyond not liking how easily I take over the thread and "how much I talk". When not lazer-focusing on me, his posts lack substance almost completely. Caused the Daws lynch at the end of the day phase but in his defence, probably not *that* sus as far as reasons go, but definitely when it comes to timing. His interrogation of Moot feels breathtakingly weak looking back. He doesn't actually address much of it to Moot, and seems desperate to move on from the topic of TGN's supposed purity, citing Doc's defense as iron-clad (you can bet how this makes me feel about TGN's status right now). Immediately starts peddling the theory after the Daws mislynch that the wolves are among the lurkers, which supports Gerrick's observation. As soon as D2 starts and Daws comes back, he begins throwing shade at me again. His first reads list does not contain any reasons for his leanings (yeah, upon reflection, that's super dodge). He also did not react well to me propping up two of my scumspects as not only town leans, but Town Core, of all things. And by "did not react well", I mean there was literally no reaction. Instead he cases me for the previous day's Daws lynch. Bit of an odd choice to find me suspicious for that, when I just did something to wildly strange. I could go on in a similar vein from here, but at this point, I am starting to think I'm just lazer-focusing on him because he lazer-focused me, and I can't be objective.There's not much I can do to allay your paranoia about ulterior motives short of me dying, I'm beginning to accept that maybe I do need to die just to get you asking the questions where they need to be asked. I chose Sapph for mainly 2 reasons: I knew that he was your nemesis, I had read about somewhere, I honestly don't remember where now, and I felt that if Sapph often came into contention with you he would be the most likely to see anything unusual starting from D1. I also knew that you would develop your own opinions on him based on his answer and that could be helpful. I said I didn't really have a good reason at the time, but I was still casing you. Also, I did also just want to take to people I hadn't talked to before, nothing much to that. As to Pengu, Doc, or Moot being a better choice, I just decided on Sapph.
So with all that out of the way: Vote: Vroendal
As for lacking substance in my posts, I just lack the motivation to overanalyze every single little thing that I could see that might point to someone being this or that, I grow weary of posting a lot, it's definitely not my usual MO. As for lazar-focusing on you, it was only D1, there weren't any big revelations yet from lynches or kills, if I was going to case someone first one of the best options would be you based on my observations from the first Portal game. If I could eliminate a wolf that would be very likely to take over town from D1 that would be instrumental in town's victory.
As for Moot, that one was an actual mistake on my part. I was feeling targeted and wanted to deflect on someone else because the stress was getting a little much for D1, I haven't played WW for months this has been rough. :/ I kinda just invented reasons half-heartedly and hoped Moot would slip up and say something that actually hinted to him being wolf.
I wanted to move on from TGN because he was and still is the most likely player to be town who is not mechanically cleared. I think Doc laid out TGN's defense quite well in the beginning and I fully agree with it. I must also mention that you could be more trusting of Doc if you're not trusting of me on this because we both read the RMB quite often and TGN is one of the most profilic posters there. If it turns out I'm wrong, so be it but for now I'm not going to push him.
I threw shade at you because I had just considered the possibility that it could be both you and Michi based on that you Lau apparently like to push another wolf as a wolf yourself, I wanted to raise the possibility and not get fooled for the rest of the game.
I responded to your propping up of cores as well, a reminder that you had made this statement AFTER N1, and I had no idea what your role was. It seemed likely to me based on your certainty that you had copped at least one and for the other had seen something that made you certain in a post. I didn't know what this could be, but I decided not to press the issue to keep from revealing too much possible town information D2. You not switching to Daws seemed to be the more likely wolf maneuver to me, and thus the one that I should press.
I am going to issue a suggestion. We keep returning to me, so obviously you're not going to just leave me alone to go focus on who you should focus on. So I'll lead you there. I suggest that I lead a vote against someone you scum lean today. If they're town, either a town killing role kills me tonight or you lynch me the next day. If they're wolf, someone can investigate me tonight. If you don't trust the result, we do the same thing again.
This would be a very bad choice to do as wolf, because either I get fellow wolves killed uselessly when I could just give up and die today, or I would eliminate one more option for who it could be, narrowing in on the wolves. If you don't agree to this and decide to lynch me, ok. That would be a misplay, but a more understandable one. Once my role is revealed I think you'll understand a lot more.
All this assumes the Seer doesn't get killed tonight. Wolves also just wanna stay alive for as long as they possibly can. So no, I will not be taking you up on this offer.
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 05:09:56 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 14, 2020, 05:15:07 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 05:22:50 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 14, 2020, 05:26:39 PM
I also don't know how you become so worried about me being scum at the beginning of D2 if you simultaneously think I'm the Cop.That was just a matter of two possibilities I was seeing at the same time conflicting, your answer would have provided more perspective on which one was more likely.
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 05:33:44 PM
I also don't know how you become so worried about me being scum at the beginning of D2 if you simultaneously think I'm the Cop.That was just a matter of two possibilities I was seeing at the same time conflicting, your answer would have provided more perspective on which one was more likely.
You didn't ask me about one of them, you only focused on what made me Wolf.
Post by: Vroendal on December 14, 2020, 05:36:08 PM
You didn't ask me about one of them, you only focused on what made me Wolf.Yeah, because the wolf part was both more important to determine at the time, and because asking about your abilities also would have made your game as town more difficult and even would have incriminated myself for asking.
Post by: Vroendal on December 14, 2020, 05:44:15 PM
Vote - Wille-Harlia
I'm sticking to my guns, everyone vote for this player and if I'm wrong that's one less confusion we have in this game.
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Actually, you know what, screw waiting for death, if I'm going down I'm going down in a blaze of possibly misguided glory!!!
Vote - Wille-Harlia
I'm sticking to my guns, everyone vote for this player and if I'm wrong that's one less confusion we have in this game.
This is hilarious. Refer to my reads list and respond, please.
Post by: Vroendal on December 14, 2020, 05:52:53 PM
This is hilarious. Refer to my reads list and respond, please.Thank you. I'm actually sorry I'm being blind, could you either quote it again or update it here because I don't see any list from you in the past 8 or so pages.
Post by: Dawsinian on December 14, 2020, 05:54:06 PM
This is hilarious. Refer to my reads list and respond, please.Thank you. I'm actually sorry I'm being blind, could you either quote it again or update it here because I don't see any list from you in the past 8 or so pages.
https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154591#msg154591
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 05:54:55 PM
This is hilarious. Refer to my reads list and respond, please.Thank you. I'm actually sorry I'm being blind, could you either quote it again or update it here because I don't see any list from you in the past 8 or so pages.
It's literally the one that you responded to for my read on you and TGN. It's the one that Silv edited.
Post by: Vroendal on December 14, 2020, 06:23:28 PM
It literally could not matter less what I think right now of these reads anyway. Anyone who is suspicious of me is going to vote me, you're going to read into everything I say until I flip town, doesn't matter.
I thoroughly agree about there being lurker wolves, I haven't been getting any major scum vibes from anyone who's had a decent amount of posts. I appreciate the post percentage, that is interesting and you didn't need to do that, ty for being helpful.
I don't know Doc's style as well as you, I'm inclined to just trust you on this one and hope he's not making a play by voting for Michi either knowing he was unaligned and somehow a threat to scum or just gunning for a town. Your reasoning regarding him seems based on a lot of experience.
Moot and Sapph are tied together just like Lau and BSR, it seems likely that all 4 are town. I have no idea why you're putting Hapi so high just because of Sapph's assumptions, use your own reasoning, unless you're assuming he checked her. I think she's town. I think Wisch is town. I think Gerrick is town.
We should consider Daws as town until we can't anymore.
Turtle and TGN are two of the same to me with the exact same playstyle. Nothing I will say will alter your opinion. I think they're town.
I think Minish is town because I think Daw was town. If he was wolf he would've been helped by his teammates instead of being overwhelmed on his own. I don't have a clear read on Minish herself as a player until she's caught up. It is a regret that in the Cores and Turrets game I was only town leaning her because two townies who had played with her were. I'm not trusting that reason anymore for Minish.
Flying I have mixed feelings on, no idea.
ENE needs to talk more. Human needs to talk more. ogun I have no clue, needs to talk more.
Willie is the best bet at being scum in my eyes.
I didn't want to make this post, you don't really care, I don't really care.
The 4 scum may be -
Wille-Harlia
Flying
Human
ENE
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 06:45:29 PM
Would you be able to list your four scum in most want to lynch to least want to lynch? It's fine if not, just curious.
Just looking at the d2 voting Vro makes the most sense to vote because it would give us tons of info. But I'm willing to hear him out and look other places as well.
Post by: Gerrick on December 14, 2020, 06:46:48 PM
Flying Eagles
Ogunbiyi
Vroendal
ENE
HumanSanity
Wille-Harlia
Will have time to explain when I get home from work. The fact that Vro's list overlaps with my so much, though, as well as his general speech makes me hesitant on voting for him. Also the only reason a few others like Doc, Sapphiron, and Wintermoot aren't being considered by me are that people I'm Town reading are saying they're safely Town. Think it's time we start putting the pressure on the XKIers, though.
It's getting rather close to EoD, I should probably vote now.Who are the players you're Town reading?
Vote: Michi
Many of the players I town-read are voting Michi, so I trust their judgement on top of my own. As Wisch pointed out, there are also a bunch of mechanical reasons.
Also - I'm running out of time and I prefer to stay alive ^-^
Post by: Vroendal on December 14, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
@VroendalNah that's completely reasonable. Here you are -
Would you be able to list your four scum in most want to lynch to least want to lynch? It's fine if not, just curious.
Just looking at the d2 voting Vro makes the most sense to vote because it would give us tons of info. But I'm willing to hear him out and look other places as well.
1) Wille
2) Human
3) ENE
4) Flying
The reason Flying is last even though he could be considered more scummy than Willie is that he could be too wolfie to be a wolf, much like TGN and turtle. I want to hear more from all of them though.
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 06:56:33 PM
Here are my top Scum Leans:
Flying Eagles
Ogunbiyi
Vroendal
ENE
HumanSanity
Wille-Harlia
Will have time to explain when I get home from work. The fact that Vro's list overlaps with my so much, though, as well as his general speech makes me hesitant on voting for him. Also the only reason a few others like Doc, Sapphiron, and Wintermoot aren't being considered by me are that people I'm Town reading are saying they're safely Town. Think it's time we start putting the pressure on the XKIers, though.It's getting rather close to EoD, I should probably vote now.Who are the players you're Town reading?
Vote: Michi
Many of the players I town-read are voting Michi, so I trust their judgement on top of my own. As Wisch pointed out, there are also a bunch of mechanical reasons.
Also - I'm running out of time and I prefer to stay alive ^-^
Since your scum list overlaps quite a bit with Vro's would you also be willing to list them from most want to lynch to least? Even if you only do the same ones Vro did?
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 08:27:26 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 08:31:09 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 14, 2020, 08:55:35 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 09:04:19 PM
Hapi, Sapph and Wintermoot would be one potential scum team.
Me, BSR and Dawsinian would be another.
Gerrick, you and TGN, I feel, would be another good one. I could see Doc working here, as well.
Generally, scum tries to distance themselves somewhat, so I honestly couldn't care less what the teams look like. I wouldn't have placed many of the scum team of that second Portal game, for example.
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 09:08:36 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 09:21:05 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 14, 2020, 09:22:29 PM
The current vote count is:
Vroendal - 1 (Laurentus)
Wille-Harlia - 1 (Vroendal)
Post by: Doc on December 14, 2020, 10:01:07 PM
At this juncture, though, we have 6 full days of mislynches available to us thanks to scum either being inactive or actively being blocked every night (which...seems improbable? just on the basis of numbers; even if there's, say, 2 defenders and 2 blockers, the odds of blocking it both nights are still AT MOST 1/25 (since they could theoretically overlap), which suggests at least one night where they just failed to make a night kill attempt), and while I'm loath to trust that this is genuinely all Hapi's doing because she's actively throwing up more smoke than anything else, at this point magical thinking has set in and so I'd just rather not to go in on her (since if it is her just superhuman blocking powers then, fuck it, that's 13 days and that's more than enough time for the Seer to go on vacation for a 'week', then come back and solve the game).
The problem is that I have no real scum reads at this point. While I'm not sufficiently persuaded by Lau's arguments as to have 1:1 agreement, I'm willing to trust that there's a mechanical reason to clear BSR (eliminating one of my remaining two former-scum reads), and my opinion of Gerrick has shifted enough on the basis of his analysis as to push him back up into 'null' territory (with pros and cons essentially cancelling each other out).
On this basis, my sole real existing hypothesis is that scum is just inactive and, accordingly, failing to take their night actions, which makes me think we should drill down on those perceptually inactive people - which then draws a pretty big target on most of the XKIers (sorry tourist friends, but all's fair in love and Werewolf). On that basis, I'd have picked out Dawcreek as a pretty big red flag, but since Minish tagged in before the night phase, I think they're probably clear from being a wolf (since they've been quite active since then, and would, accordingly, have properly at least gone and carried out a night kill).
In light of this, I'll Vote: HumanSanity in hopes of spurring (one of the three most inactive) to action. Either it works, and we get something to work with, or it doesn't work and we either roust an inactive wolf or, worst-case, preempt the inactivity lynch.
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 10:10:40 PM
@Vroendal can you state who your targets have been each night?
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 10:27:33 PM
Again, I cannot emphasize enough just how TWTBAW the Vro-Lau wars are, and how I'm absolutely not persuaded Vro is genuinely scum and not just you crawling up your own ass with paranoia (a possibility I was once again reminded of on reviewing Old Games last night trawling for meta knowledge, where Moot spent a whole game convinced I was scum making the single largest distancing play ever when I flipped on Laurentus).
At this juncture, though, we have 6 full days of mislynches available to us thanks to scum either being inactive or actively being blocked every night (which...seems improbable? just on the basis of numbers; even if there's, say, 2 defenders and 2 blockers, the odds of blocking it both nights are still AT MOST 1/25 (since they could theoretically overlap), which suggests at least one night where they just failed to make a night kill attempt), and while I'm loath to trust that this is genuinely all Hapi's doing because she's actively throwing up more smoke than anything else, at this point magical thinking has set in and so I'd just rather not to go in on her (since if it is her just superhuman blocking powers then, fuck it, that's 13 days and that's more than enough time for the Seer to go on vacation for a 'week', then come back and solve the game).
The problem is that I have no real scum reads at this point. While I'm not sufficiently persuaded by Lau's arguments as to have 1:1 agreement, I'm willing to trust that there's a mechanical reason to clear BSR (eliminating one of my remaining two former-scum reads), and my opinion of Gerrick has shifted enough on the basis of his analysis as to push him back up into 'null' territory (with pros and cons essentially cancelling each other out).
On this basis, my sole real existing hypothesis is that scum is just inactive and, accordingly, failing to take their night actions, which makes me think we should drill down on those perceptually inactive people - which then draws a pretty big target on most of the XKIers (sorry tourist friends, but all's fair in love and Werewolf). On that basis, I'd have picked out Dawcreek as a pretty big red flag, but since Minish tagged in before the night phase, I think they're probably clear from being a wolf (since they've been quite active since then, and would, accordingly, have properly at least gone and carried out a night kill).
In light of this, I'll Vote: HumanSanity in hopes of spurring (one of the three most inactive) to action. Either it works, and we get something to work with, or it doesn't work and we either roust an inactive wolf or, worst-case, preempt the inactivity lynch.
I believe I've asked this before: how would you characterise Gerrick and Sapph's scum styles, and would you say they've acted that way at all so far? You're the only person in the game who has been scum with them.
I would also really like to see your reads list, especially since I feel carefully confident that you're Town, for once.
Post by: Vroendal on December 14, 2020, 10:29:23 PM
I think this should be fine to reveal without going against any rules.I have not targeted any player either night.
@Vroendal can you state who your targets have been each night?
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 10:33:40 PM
Not sure where to go this day. I hate lynching inactives, especially if they're just gonna get modkilled anyways.
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 10:36:07 PM
I don't know, I'm getting frustrated by our lack of progress. I honestly wish a night kill will happen, so that we can have night kill analysis, as lame as that tends to be itself.
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 10:37:50 PM
I'm not feeling so sure about Vro anymore. But like, I feel he's the best mechanical lynch.
Not sure where to go this day. I hate lynching inactives, especially if they're just gonna get modkilled anyways.
Again, I would like reasoning. Did you get back to checking that old Spongebob game? What's he doing that's making you doubt? If it's "no Wolf sounds this genuine, ever" then yeah, welcome to the last 3 day phases of my life.
Post by: Gerrick on December 14, 2020, 10:46:39 PM
It was mostly her jump on the Dawsinian bandwagon with little reasoning and everyone saying she's safe town. But she's since moved to Town Lean or maybe even Town Core for me now, though, after reading through all of her posts.What is your reads list?I'm currently at work, so I really can't write out a whole thing.
But one change I will note from my last read list is that Vro has started to lean towards scum for me. Also not completely counting out Wischland like everyone else.
Red just posted the results as I was typing... Wow we got lucky with that one. Also, what role could possibly resurrect people?
I am currently ISOing everyone and came across this again. Why do you not feel so hot about Wisch, Gerrick? (Don't know if your read has changed)
--
I wanted to create a list of players who have be "cleared" so far. This will allow me to see who I can for now consider to be town (at least for now while we PoE the others). I'm also going to say that the players who have cleared another are also cleared (for this PoE). If one of these players turns out to be scum, then we can assume the one they're tied to is also scum.
Dawsinian by resurrection (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg153929#msg153929)
BraveSirRobin by Laurentus (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154246#msg154246)
Laurentus by BraveSirRobin (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154489#msg154489)
Wintermoot by Sapphiron (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154579#msg154579)
turtle by Minish (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154603#msg154603)
I'll also add that Hapi is Town Core for me (she's Aragorn), and Wischland is for now also Town Core/Lean.
That leaves 8 players left who are either Lean Scum or Null (from most to least suspicious, though many are pretty close):
1. Flying Eagles: Didn't vote D1. Was the second-last to join the Michi wagon and gave weak reasoning. Gave a pretty empty reads list without any reasoning (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg154552#msg154552).
2. Eastern New England: Very quiet. Didn't vote D1. Was the last to join the Michi wagon and gave weak reasoning.
3. HumanSanity: Essentially absent from the game. Has not voted yet.
4. Ogunbiyi: Pretty quiet. Didn't vote D1. Seemed quite protective of Vroendal early on. Edited a post supposedly after hinting at a role.
5. Vroendal: Very active. His votes have not looked good and his logic/reasoning has not been good either. His speech seems genuine, and it seems like he's trying to help, but he could just be a good liar. Overall, wouldn't be upset at his lynching since it would likely give good info on players.
6. TGN: Kind of all over the place and hard to read. The spoilered post below in particular is not sitting well with me. What is this "new information that has come to light"? Could be a fellow wolf telling him to switch off a wagon.
Spoiler
UNVOTEVroendal, there was a LOT of info against Vro and @Gerrick but I just have a gut feeling it's Vro.Alrightie TGN, since this is your gut specifically I have to convince, I shall make my appeal specifically to you.
GO WITH YOUR GUT!!!
First point of defense - Would this face be an evil person? :wave:
Second pod - Ooga booga shamalama ding dong, also I have cookies
Third pod - If you read the posts I've made, they've been created with genuine town motivations, I don't know what specifically I setting you off but I'm making my best effort here. My post against Michi was at least in my opinion a very strong post that really kinda shattered his complete case against me, but maybe I'm just biased.
And to @Flying Eagles and @Sapphiron my vote is motivated partly by statistical possibility but mostly from the fact that I'm not reading anyone who's been talking a lot as scum, though I am willing to vote Gerrick out of self-preservation, I'm still rather unsure of him as I've stated. To me, I think that at least the majority of the wolves will be found among the lurkers.
To @Laurentus specifically but also everyone else while honestly at this point I would be fine with and understand the motivation behind lynching me if just for information and to remove the doubt from everyone's mind to focus on those who need to be focused on, I would much rather remain alive, as I am far more useful that way. Lau I've been approaching the game as I have for a reason, I never seem to shut up do I? XD
Vote Gerrick
I want cook..
I mean new information has come to light :)
8. Doc: Pretty quiet. Laurentus seems convinced he's Town and has seemed generally helpful, so he's Null but almost at Lean Town.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 14, 2020, 10:50:51 PM
If everyone could take this list and separate it into a reads list that would be great. Even if everyone could just name 4 people from this list they don't want to lynch/are leaning town or 4 they're leaning scum for that would help a ton.
Doc
Eastern New England
Flying Eagles
Gerrick
HumanSanity
ogunbiyi6422
Sapphiron
The Greenlandic North
Vroendal
Wille-Harlia
Wintermoot
Wischland
Here is my thoughts at the moment from this list
Doc - Was active at the start and made the appearance of scum hunting but has since gone quiet. This scares me, it would scare me more if he wasn't so insistent on discord about how overwhelming this game is post wise. At this point I have two reads hes town and gave up or he's realized that the best play now is to go quiet because we are more at risk of killing ourselves. I'm null on Doc I can't fur the life of me guess which.
Eastern New England - I'm kind of not sure they showed up to vote but IIRC they were inactive and on the chopping block. I doubt the whole wild team was inactive and that's why we haven't gotten any night kills. I need to see much much more out of them to make a decision on this so null.
Flying Eagles - I've admittedly hardly paid attention to them so I'm using the print trick to go thru their posts. What I see is many posts of activity without substance. Wisch noted Flying Eagles as one of the more chatty players and it seems true but they've largely not posted anything that adds to the discussion I think like 60% of their posts that I saw were simple questions about vote counts or D1 random posts. I'm going to lean scum here.
Gerrick - I read Gerrick as scum and could've had him killed in that wagon I stopped it for the same reasons people are convinced I'm Aragorn. Legolas is in this game assuredly Gerrick soft claimed that and nobody even attempted to counter that. I know we can't claim roles and he could be lying but you could easily counter a soft claim like this without claiming the role yourself. Gerrick for me is town.
HumanSanity - Lurker wolf? I mean there's not much to read claim to be busy. Lynching them would be something I'd do later on but I can't read nothing and that scares me. Scum lean.
ogunbiyi6422 - I'm convinced Ogun is scum the more I think about it. I'm not sure how many games they've played or not but their justification for why they are a town lean was not good. They could be playing quiet because we've been so focused on the wrong targets and I've just...its a gut feeling I have no reason to think this way mechanically I've never played with ogun but this just scares me. Scum.
Sapphiron - I trust Lau and would lock town Sapph. I won't go much further into that really.
TGN - my reasoning mirrors Laurentus on TGN. TGN seems less like a lost and confused player and more like a player being told to pretend to be lost and confused especially when you compare the way their posts reads compared to how Turtles do. Turtle I believe as a lost and confused player. I actuality think TGN has been keeping up with the thread if you read between the lines and kinda understands what is going on. Scum lean.
Vroendal - the more I think about this the more confused I get. It could just be playstyle God knows I'm not one to speak on anyone's playstyle if I read myself I'd always kill me D1 like Doc always wants too. I am beginning to think that like Gerrick, Vro is another townie who we are cutting into for just making some bad reads. Part of this is that I'm now convinced that Willie is scum. Part of this is that Vro kinda seems to now be playing a townie who is just resigned to their fate. But I hesitate because Vro could soft claim and clear themself and they haven't. Maybe because they don't want to break the spirit of the rules or something but Michi soft claimed Gollum was Gollum and no action was taken and Mones basically said hinting at roles is okay just not outright claims. So maybe they just can't soft claim because someone else will counter it and they know it. Or maybe they just don't want to be Hapi lol. I'm reading null with a slight scum lean but I am kinda on board with the lynch Willie plan. If Willie flips town Vro might as well have signed their own death warrant the numbers still favor us. If Willie is evil than Vro is a town lean at the very least and I do agree with Minish, Vro is quite good at reading wolves and there's a reason I killed vro early in summersend wolf iirc. Oh and just another thought... what if Vro is an unaligned player who's whole goal is to just kill Willie ala an Executioner in ToS. It might be crazy buuuuuuuut Silv is involved here and Silv has done crazier.
Wille-Harlia - Willie oh Willie howst you manage to fly under the radar. Howst you manage to get buy undetected by nearly every player...nearly. It was noted that Willie is usually a more chatty player they've made 3 posts. These posts themselves are intriguingly illuminating to me. Especially their reads list where their scum reads were me, Vro and Gerrick only. I find this...odd. I find their silence odd. Silence in the face even of someone constantly calling them out. Now they've posted a few times so they wouldn't be on a mod kill chopping block but I actually am on board with the kill Willie see what he flips train of thought from Vro here. Scum.
Wintermoot - has been cleared iirc so town. Cleared by Sapph so I guess it depends if you trust Sapph I do.
Wischland - Actually now I'm thinking a different train of thought. Wisch has been active and labeled as a helpful townie by so many so I've been letting it slip by but...Wisch hasn't been helpful. D1 they gave some reads into the 10ki playstyle useful but not really something town specific. They've done reads lists that just seemed to be mimics of other reads lists but my concern grows as we look at their vote style. EoD D1 votes Daws wagon. Explained after EoD an explanation that was lacking IMHO. D2 votes Michi late into the phase at a time when the wagons were still near a tie Michi at 6 Vro at 5.
Wisch and Vro have been protecting each other like crazy in the way they've posted about each other but it's been light enough that its not noticeable enough for most people to even group them together. I'm more convinced that Wisch is evil than anyone else right now
Vote: Wischland
And a thought process thru this. I didn't edit things as my reads progressed cause I'm at work so I need to finish this fast.
Kill wisch if their evil kill Vro. If they aren't kill Willie.
After that I dunno.
Okay, so I read through everyone's ISOs, and based on it, have compiled a reads list as follows. Also a note on PoEs. It stands for Process of Elimination, and the idea is that you work your way up the list when deciding who to lynch. Interesting conclusion, too: It does seem like there might be lurking Wolves, just by the sheer number of null reads. I am also counting 637 votes, here, which differs from the thread's count of 695, which worries me. If you see I've missed anyone, please let me know. I also thought I'd include post counts, as best as I can see them with that print page trick Gerrick mentioned, and include percentages of the game's posts they've contributed.
Lock Town:
BraveSirRobin (8, 1,26%)
Dawsinian (10, 1,57%)
Laurentus (229, 35,95%)
Town Core:
Doc (8, 1,26%) - Not afraid to stick to his guns about the Michi vote, not overly mouthy like I would expect from Scum-Doc. Potential soft-spot for new players which could prove to be a mistake. Generally quite quiet as Town, and tries to drown out all hints and clues with sheer info and chaff when scum. Seems to be on Town meta. None can say he hasn't been looking for scum.
Gerrick (26, 4,08%) - Has had an unusually tough time of it this game. Usually gets by by lurking and observing, and making data-based reads rather than gut-reads. Usually dies quite early, too, if memory serves, so would have been a prime kill target on N1, yet didn't die. I am really struggling to make any other reads on him. He has told me before that I am always his N1 scan choice as Seer, because I lead the discussion and drive the activity, so it does make sense that he would want to save me from a potential D1 lynch. I am a bit surprised about the target he ended up choosing to make things equal and give me a better chance of surviving the D1 lynch, though. I am a bit conflicted about his reads on Vro, especially early on, because to me, it seemed there was a clear wolfiness to them. At the end of the day, I have mechanical reason to place him in my Core, but will have to continuously reevaluate. Personally, I find that he's willing to go against the grain of people's opinions about TGN and turtle to be a good sign that this is Town-Gerrick. Is actively hunting scum now that his neck's no longer on the line, too.
Hapi (93, 14,60%) - It's fucking Hapi. She drives me insane, she's chaotic, and she lies. She's Also Town Core until Sapph says otherwise.
Sapphiron (43, 6,75%)- Razor sharp reasoning, critical of most everyone's posts, not actively pushing an agenda like I would expect from scum-Sapph (like with poor old Syraj back in the day). Also definitely not falling into lurky Wolf-meta. One of the people I trust the most.
Wintermoot (18, 2,83%)- If Sapph says he's Town, then I am inclined to trust until given reason not to.
Town Leans:
Dawcreek/Minish (13, 2,04%) - Dawcreek never posted, but his sub, Minish, can be characterised as hard-working, logical, analytical. Actively hunting scum. Currently seems to be leaning towards Vro being scum, could provide me with an interesting perspective to that.
turtle (13, 2,04%) - Actually willing to call me out, which will always earn you some town-cred from me. I am actually town-leaning, which might make people raise their eyebrows, but his lurking feels more genuinely lost and confused, as opposed to TGN's. His admission that he doesn't know also came much later, but gonna have to agree with Gerrick here, if I were a Wolf, I would most-def have told both him and TGN to play up the innocent child schtick.
Wischland (19, 2,98%) - I would like to place him as Core, just because of how wonderfully clear his thought process is, and generally being a very enjoyable player to play with, but that vote on Daws was… not great. Would like to see him post more often.
Nulls:
Eastern New England (2, 0,31%) - Has said 2 things. Need to pressurise and see how they respond.
Flying Eagles (18, 2,83%) - His wariness of me is probably understandable, and amusingly enough actually potentially a sign of not being in the scum-chat, because if there are Wolves who know me, then they would probably have filled him in on my general play style. I don't like that he doesn't actively seem to be hunting scum, even though he's got 18 posts, which is actually a lot when so many players are so inactive. So one slightly scummy thing and one slightly townie thing puts him in my nulls.
HumanSanity (3, 0,47%) - Claims to be busy, no reason to speculate otherwise. Has not contributed anything while here, though.
ogunbiyi6422 (6, 0,94%) - Unclear how much WW/Mafia he's played (actually not so unclear anymore, just wasn't clear when I made this note), but not voting in the first round is almost always a bad call. NAI, but not liking it. REALLY not liking his 3rd post of the game, where he votes for Michi, in what seems like the path of least resistance. Defends himself against Wisch's reads list by referring back to his 3rd post, and says "if that doesn't tell you 'town lean' then I don't know what to tell you." Is that even a serious defense? Was the only person to call my late-phase vote switch onto Vro as sus. Gotta respect him for that. Still, too much lurking, and when posting, not doing so for good reasons, most of the time. Into nulls you go.
Wille-Harlia (3, 0,47%) - The dreaded Wille-Harlia. Who's made 3 very uncontroversial posts, and one of them I actually found very illuminating to make sense of their fellow XKIers' tendencies. So I am incredibly confused why Vro wants to off them, rather than someone like ogunbiyi or Human Sanity. All the reasons he gave for Willie equally apply to all the quiet/busy players in the game.
Scum leans:
TGN (26, 4,08%)- It's hard to make a judgment when he's so new to this, but I just really don't like his play-style. I kinda get the gut-feeling that he's been given the scum role in his first ever game (and if this is the case, yeah, I would honestly have preferred that his alignment be changed post-rand, like I'll sometimes do for certain players as host), and has no idea how to play the part of a townie, so he's just looking busy. I also don't like that so many people are just going to give him a free-pass by virtue of being so new and young. Like, sorry, I'm probably a monster, but that just doesn't sit well with me.
Scum:
Vroendal (79, 12,40%) - Seemed lazer-focused on me from the word go. I can and should be questioned, but I am honestly still feeling like there was an ulterior motive to it. This lazer-focus can be seen the moment he asks Sapph what Sapph's opinion is of me at this very moment. I don't think this was likely to be random at all. Equally valid people to ask would have been Pengu (who knows my meta better than just about anyone), Doc or even Wintermoot. Why go straight for the person I would characterise as my arch-nemesis in Werewolf? (BTW, Sapph, no offence meant <3). This lazer-focus is also in clear view when he later probes me about what I had said once in a previous game about Gerrick's lurking. His thought-progression is riddled with contradictions when it comes to Hapi, and he doesn't showcase his progression to finding me sus at all, beyond not liking how easily I take over the thread and "how much I talk". When not lazer-focusing on me, his posts lack substance almost completely. Caused the Daws lynch at the end of the day phase but in his defence, probably not *that* sus as far as reasons go, but definitely when it comes to timing. His interrogation of Moot feels breathtakingly weak looking back. He doesn't actually address much of it to Moot, and seems desperate to move on from the topic of TGN's supposed purity, citing Doc's defense as iron-clad (you can bet how this makes me feel about TGN's status right now). Immediately starts peddling the theory after the Daws mislynch that the wolves are among the lurkers, which supports Gerrick's observation. As soon as D2 starts and Daws comes back, he begins throwing shade at me again. His first reads list does not contain any reasons for his leanings (yeah, upon reflection, that's super dodge). He also did not react well to me propping up two of my scumspects as not only town leans, but Town Core, of all things. And by "did not react well", I mean there was literally no reaction. Instead he cases me for the previous day's Daws lynch. Bit of an odd choice to find me suspicious for that, when I just did something to wildly strange. I could go on in a similar vein from here, but at this point, I am starting to think I'm just lazer-focusing on him because he lazer-focused me, and I can't be objective.
So with all that out of the way: Vote: Vroendal
This is the best read of me I've ever seen.
Also everyone, based on game mechanics, I can lock-confirm Lau is good. Not sure if that helps people generally, but good to know either way.
@Minish, basically something happened between me and BSR on N1, and I've had him in my core ever since.
Got it.
If anyone else is actually Aragorn I'm gonna be pretty upset with you for not "countering" Hapi. So I'm gonna put Hapi in the town group for now.
If you trust me Laur (and if I ever flip that will just make this more trustworthy), we never lynch from this group and then PoE from the rest.
Town
Me
Laur
Daws
Turtle
BSR
Hapi
Other
Doc
Eastern New England
Flying Eagles
Gerrick
HumanSanity
ogunbiyi6422
Sapphiron
The Greenlandic North
Vroendal
Wille-Harlia
Wintermoot
Wischland
If anyone has invest roles, anyone in this group is a good target.
>:D
Okay last notes to make here. Has Daws been cleared or are we still assuming he's good cause he was rezzed and it said he was town at time of death? I'm still not convinced. Daws has also largely disappeared.
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 10:52:28 PM
Generally, when games hit the "fuck it, let's lynch the inactives" phase, my gut reaction is that I'm misreading some folks as Town when they are in fact scum.
I don't know, I'm getting frustrated by our lack of progress. I honestly wish a night kill will happen, so that we can have night kill analysis, as lame as that tends to be itself.
I'm usually wary of the people who suggest lynching inactives because it's a super easy qay for scum to get mislynches. But I also know that a lot of townies also just have a policy of lynching inactives which makes it difficult to read someone for it.
I'm not feeling so sure about Vro anymore. But like, I feel he's the best mechanical lynch.
Not sure where to go this day. I hate lynching inactives, especially if they're just gonna get modkilled anyways.
Again, I would like reasoning. Did you get back to checking that old Spongebob game? What's he doing that's making you doubt? If it's "no Wolf sounds this genuine, ever" then yeah, welcome to the last 3 day phases of my life.
It's not super sound reasoning, but I do feel some genuineness from him. That's not to say that can't come from scum, but part of it is how upset he sounds at the situation he is in, but he's still trying to be helpful. Which I know is a lot harder to do in a scum position.
Also, I thought I might have had a small hunch based on something he said earlier and that's why I asked him his targets. However that must have been wrong, but his answer is making me second guess. It would be risky for scum to claim no targets with a potential role like a tracker. But also, I feel like he could just be vanilla (and I have slight reason to believe this is possible) or that he really just has an unhelpful role.
I also just had a thought. If Merry or Pippin ever flip then we should maybe pay close attention to their reads. I feel like there would be a decent chance they know who each other is.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 14, 2020, 10:57:38 PM
Oh look Hapi did a serious post without b.s. what???? Okay I gotta go work <3
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 11:07:51 PM
Okay last notes to make here. Has Daws been cleared or are we still assuming he's good cause he was rezzed and it said he was town at time of death? I'm still not convinced. Daws has also largely disappeared.
I don't even know how I can make this clearer. Yes. Daws is Town. Stop worrying.
Post by: Gerrick on December 14, 2020, 11:09:57 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 11:11:46 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 11:12:24 PM
I'm still not convinced Dawsinian is town, but for the sake of making a more manageable scum list for now, I'll consider Daws town.
If you're convinced I'm Town, then you can trust Daws is also Town.
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 11:12:58 PM
Post by: Gerrick on December 14, 2020, 11:14:17 PM
If you're convinced I'm Town, then you can trust Daws is also Town.Based on just your assuming a resurrection won't change alignment or something more?
--
I'm also gonna stick with my list and
Vote: Flying Eagles
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 11:15:53 PM
Post by: Gerrick on December 14, 2020, 11:17:11 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 11:19:10 PM
If you're convinced I'm Town, then you can trust Daws is also Town.Based on just your assuming a resurrection won't change alignment or something more?
--
I'm also gonna stick with my list and
Vote: Flying Eagles
As I said, I legitimately cannot make this any clearer.
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 11:24:06 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 14, 2020, 11:25:48 PM
Post by: Minish on December 14, 2020, 11:26:09 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 14, 2020, 11:28:53 PM
Or Ruguo is evil and is looking forward to this. :P
I mean... my knowledge of Ruguo points to this position.
I'm going back to memeing being serious gets me nowhere.
And Lau... maybe I am just all powerful and that's why nobody is dying. :))
Post by: Doc on December 14, 2020, 11:43:07 PM
I believe I've asked this before: how would you characterise Gerrick and Sapph's scum styles, and would you say they've acted that way at all so far? You're the only person in the game who has been scum with them.I don't really wanna speak on that, mostly because I just don't remember; while I'm aware I've played scum with them and could probably go back through the (two-year-old) PMs, there's a lot more of scum play here in Wintreath, in my experience, that's based on 'we have information and goals in common and...we're just gonna do our own thing until nighttime and let the chips fall where they may'.
I would also really like to see your reads list, especially since I feel carefully confident that you're Town, for once.
Frankly, that seems to be Wolfing in Wintreath; the pack only comes together at night, and during the day it's every scum for themself. The only time there's really much PMing during the day seems to be when there's a scum on the chopping block, and then there's a flurry of 'do we bus them or try to clutch it out'.
As is, on a gut read I just don't think Sapph is scum this time, but I don't have the same certainty with Gerrick, (which, it should be noted, is clashing with my 'brain' read, which says that he's making good, clear posts and tells me I should clear him, but the fact that gut and brain aren't in agreement irritates me).
As for my reads list, here's a newly edited version of the original format.
more reads than a library
1) Me (Obviously, but not a very useful read for anyone else)
Turtle (more less-sus than TGN)
2)
Daws (unchanged; I'm still not persuaded he's not possibly a Ringwraith)
TGN
Sapphiron (I trust my gut)
Minish (too active to support my inactive-scum theory if Dawcreek was scum)
3)
Wischland ('limited' activity but useful)
ENE (showed up right before EOD, which would be the optimal time to put in a night action too. Again, though, based solely on my theory of 'inactive scum')
Lau + Vro (the return of TWTBAW)
Wintermoot
BSR
4)
Hapi (at this point I think she's nonaligned and consequently isn't my problem anymore)
Gerrick (my pros and cons list basically balance each other out, and more importantly my list is very top-heavy so I feel like I have to have more people to be suspicious of or I'm not doing this properly)
5)
Flying Eagles (some activity (yes, on a per-post basis, more than me, but shhhh nobody asked you) but less substantive imo; exactly the sort of chaff posting I'd do if I were scum)
ogun, HumanSanity, Wille-Harlia (inactivity, 4 people, 4 scum; do the math)
6 and 7 empty because I have no strong negative feelings about anybody
Turtle (more less-sus than TGN)
2)
Daws (unchanged; I'm still not persuaded he's not possibly a Ringwraith)
TGN
Sapphiron (I trust my gut)
Minish (too active to support my inactive-scum theory if Dawcreek was scum)
3)
Wischland ('limited' activity but useful)
ENE (showed up right before EOD, which would be the optimal time to put in a night action too. Again, though, based solely on my theory of 'inactive scum')
Lau + Vro (the return of TWTBAW)
Wintermoot
BSR
4)
Hapi (at this point I think she's nonaligned and consequently isn't my problem anymore)
Gerrick (my pros and cons list basically balance each other out, and more importantly my list is very top-heavy so I feel like I have to have more people to be suspicious of or I'm not doing this properly)
5)
Flying Eagles (some activity (yes, on a per-post basis, more than me, but shhhh nobody asked you) but less substantive imo; exactly the sort of chaff posting I'd do if I were scum)
ogun, HumanSanity, Wille-Harlia (inactivity, 4 people, 4 scum; do the math)
6 and 7 empty because I have no strong negative feelings about anybody
Post by: TGN on December 14, 2020, 11:52:25 PM
Post by: Wille-Harlia on December 15, 2020, 12:04:11 AM
Post by: Wille-Harlia on December 15, 2020, 12:13:07 AM
Town:
Wille-Harlia (me, duh)
Doc
TGN
Gerrick
Wischland
Neutral:
Eastern New England
Flying Eagles
Sapphiron
Vroendal
Wintermoot
Scum:
HumanSanity
ogunbiyi6422
Those two because I think the wolves are inactive.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 12:17:15 AM
(https://static2.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/pjimage-53.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=960&h=500)
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 12:21:01 AM
Ok, um. Let me respond to that first. I'll refocus afterwards and try to provide some more thoughts on other people since that's apparently what y'all want from me. :P
So first things first: Have I been helpful?
Guess it depends on how you look at it. I certainly haven't done any of the in-depth analysis and argumentation like the more active players, but I also honestly don't have anything to say in regards to that sort of thing. You guys are far better and more experienced at analyzing one another than I am, so I contribute where I can, which is in providing information on XKI players. If I did want to try and analyze, all I would really be doing is repeating other people's points, which is something you, apparently, also find suspicious Hapi. So rather than trying analyze and filling up this thread with unhelpful or repetitive arguments, I've stuck to contributing on things I actually do know about.
As for my reads list being similar to other people's. Well sure, because I trust the opinions of people like Lau, so when they say someone is town, I'm inclined to agree, and model my thoughts after that. If I read an argument that I think is logical and correct, I won't refute it just to be different. And I did try to provide plenty of reasoning in my reads list to demonstrate where my thoughts are coming from, including stating that I placed people where they are due to trusting those I considered town.
And finally my votes. Out of all of them, my D1 vote definitely comes across as the strangest to most people, so I'll ask that you look at it as if I was a wolf. Were that the case, Daws getting lynched would've been good, since he's town. They already had a majority and was going to be lynched even if I hadn't voted. Doing a last minute vote only draws attention as a weird move, for exactly the reasons you're saying Hapi, and is at complete odds with what I would have wanted as a wolf. And yet I still decided to vote, because y'all were so adamant about the importance of lynching on the first day, and to help start voting records. I'll admit my reasoning for voting for Daws specifically was crap and basically just a bandwagon, but it really was an attempt to take part in the game on Wintreath's terms.
Anyway, I hope that's satisfying as a defense. Now give me a sec to type up another post with thoughts on other stuff.
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 15, 2020, 12:40:06 AM
ogunbiyi6422 - I'm convinced Ogun is scum the more I think about it. I'm not sure how many games they've played or not but their justification for why they are a town lean was not good. They could be playing quiet because we've been so focused on the wrong targets and I've just...its a gut feeling I have no reason to think this way mechanically I've never played with ogun but this just scares me. Scum.I apologize for scaring you :D
I think as I go through the posts the more people are certain I'm scum, so I think me responding should be seen as being defensive but simply trying to explain why I'm not "scum."
I've never really played a game of Werewolf this long as the first game I believe I was killed off or something of the sort. Because of that, in addition to the fact that I am not on this thread for a long part of the day, lots of posts go by and I find it hard to jump into the conversation, especially when we get to the
But since I'm being accused, lets think like scum. :D I am sure this may backfire but why not. If I was scum, I think the best thing scum would do would be to take out one of the major players that have been confirmed to be town, which would be Lau, and maybe someone like Hapi or Gerrick? Right? I think that makes sense, considering thats how I would play as an imposter in Among Us (I unfortunately had to use an Among Us reference as that is the closest thing I have to experience in this type of game). I am almost certain that because of that, either the wolf is an another inactive, or that their kill was blocked by another character, simply because it is not in their best interest to continue to have a large majority of players, especially ones that are either investigators or have a lot of experience. Though to argue against that having no kill also makes the investigating much harder, causing us to look for alternatives and possible scums, like myself, which could help the wolf, especially if the wolf is Vro, who has been accused basically throughout the game, and this could help throw us off their scent.
I think that while I may not be posting I have been keeping up to date with most or all the posts, which can be seen from my previous post, while other "inactives" have not done that.
I try to think that I tend to try to be a more careful player, lurking in the shadows and reading people's posts, though that often backfires, like now. Being more willing to accuse someone and then proceed to have your arguments destroyed often makes you more sus. That is probably one of the factors to why TGN is being seen as scum, and the point that he is pretending to be an inexperienced and careless player is interesting to say the least. I think that is also one of my mistakes from not voting in round 1, though I could argue it shows that I try to avoid jumping the bandwagon.
And to Lau, the (fish) soup given to you from who I suppose is Eowyn is from a deleted scene in the movie Lord of the Rings, though I believe it was mentioned in the books.
My voting for Michi should not be really suspicious in that what is the point of people posting long blocks of text if I don't believe them? I don't know why that should be suspicious, I think the reason for them posting their reasoning is too see why they are right, and when I think that, it is only logical for me to cast a similar vote.
Yes, this is a very defensive text, but I think that this was necessary since I think people needed to hear me, and also probably wanted/needed to hear from me. Whether this changes their mind or affirms their suspicions (though I hope it is the former that is true), will be seen in the coming hours.
Thank you
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 15, 2020, 12:41:22 AM
Quote
I've never really played a game of Werewolf this long as the first game I believe I was killed off or something of the sort. Because of that, in addition to the fact that I am not on this thread for a long part of the day, lots of posts go by and I find it hard to jump into the conversation, especially when we get to theThe long riveting back and forth between Lau and Vro
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 12:54:23 AM
Unfortunately out of all the games I've played in, the only XKI player who was scum was Wille-Harlia for a brief period in this game https://10000islands.proboards.com/thread/39307/ww69-red-court-war at the end when he switched from town to scum. At the time of playing I didn't notice a shift in playstyle (it was also my first game though so eh) and looking back the only thing I'm really noticing is that WH seemed to get quieter and make less substantial posts as scum versus as town. Other than that, the only other point of reference I have is to a resistance game (https://10000islands.proboards.com/thread/39347/resistance-olympics-version-game-thread) where he was a spy. Obviously a different game, but I think the same thing applies, where he seemed to trend towards making just a few 1-2 sentence posts. (Side note: I was also a spy in that game, so read away if you wanna try and determine my possible scum style.) Overall, I feel like as town WH posts more frequently than he is here, but with posts about the same length as the one he made here https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6948.msg153953#msg153953. Overall, I don't get scum vibes based purely on his posts, but he also hasn't given us a ton to work with that'll prove he's town.
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 01:09:53 AM
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 01:46:32 AM
Well, tough call. ENE has barely said anything, and while he is normally pretty quiet, I'd guesstimate him at about 2 posts per day phase (including when he votes) in our normal WW games as town. I've looked back through game's in which ENE played that I hadn't as well. He was neutral in one (https://10000islands.proboards.com/thread/39158/ww67-jon-snow-nights-watch) with similar activity levels. I have no references for how ENE plays as scum, so I really can't make any calls in regards to that.
And finally HumanSanity. I dug back through XKI's WW archives and the most recent relevant game for HS was from late 2019 (https://10000islands.proboards.com/thread/37771/ww64-chaos-carnival-game-thread). I have never played WW with HS, but just from reading back through that thread, he was much more active and prone to making logical, argumentative posts as town. Of course, HS also wasn't delegate then and had less on his plate, and the game was far less busy, so not sure if the change in play style is really indicative of anything. I found no semi-recent game in which HS was scum.
And that's a more in-depth look at my fellow members of XKI. Hopefully my judgements were helpful, or at the very least the links I included might prove relevant.
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 01:53:36 AM
Now onto Flying Eagles. I have not seen FE play as scum before but the style and content of his posts here seems very similar to how he played as town in a previous game (https://10000islands.proboards.com/thread/39947/ww70-sea). The closest reference point to his scum style is when he was a spy in another resistance game (https://10000islands.proboards.com/thread/39244/resistance-olympics-version-game-thread) where his posts tended to be longer, more cohesive, and less frequent. Based on posting style, I would cautiously put FE as town.I lightly skimmed through the Flying games, and I'm not sure Wisch. I feel like his posts as town in the WW game were both longer, more logical, and covered more people (taking a look at page 5 in particular). I also thought his spy game was interesting in that he posted enough to contribute but left most of the talking to Tuga the spy, who seemed to be leading the discussion for the most part. I don't know how closely this relates to now, but to me he definitely seems more like he's posting to contribute and letting us squable. This may just be his confusion factoring into being in a new environment with newer people, but I actually think his posts align more with his spy game than his townie game.
I haven't checked out Willie's/ENE's yet, the different forum look is throwing me off so much >.<, but I'll take a look at them later.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 01:59:42 AM
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 02:05:54 AM
I lightly skimmed through the Flying games, and I'm not sure Wisch. I feel like his posts as town in the WW game were both longer, more logical, and covered more people (taking a look at page 5 in particular). I also thought his spy game was interesting in that he posted enough to contribute but left most of the talking to Tuga the spy, who seemed to be leading the discussion for the most part. I don't know how closely this relates to now, but to me he definitely seems more like he's posting to contribute and letting us squable. This may just be his confusion factoring into being in a new environment with newer people, but I actually think his posts align more with his spy game than his townie game.You think? Maybe I'm just biased cause I'm used to FE being town. Let me reread them and get back to you.
Post by: TGN on December 15, 2020, 02:25:47 AM
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 02:39:26 AM
But I'm not sure if that carries over to this game. FE's posts haven't really gained any traction nor do the arguments seem to align with anyone player. The only thing I'm seeing is that he voted for you, Vro, after Lau did, and when Lau switched to Michi, so did FE. But FE also targeted Lau earlier, without much success. So maybe Lau is really the genius mastermind and has fooled us all. Or maybe FE is just making questionable posts because he's not really sure what's happening and doesn't have the same time to consider things as he did in the XKI WW game.
Well I'm going to keep trying to analyze this nonsense. Maybe I'll come up with something better.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 15, 2020, 02:48:54 AM
Hmm, actually, good point, I think I saw a hint, but let's make sure: @Sapphiron, Hapi cleared because of mechanics, yay or nay?Yay
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 03:32:29 AM
But I'm not sure if that carries over to this game. FE's posts haven't really gained any traction nor do the arguments seem to align with anyone player. The only thing I'm seeing is that he voted for you, Vro, after Lau did, and when Lau switched to Michi, so did FE. But FE also targeted Lau earlier, without much success. So maybe Lau is really the genius mastermind and has fooled us all. Or maybe FE is just making questionable posts because he's not really sure what's happening and doesn't have the same time to consider things as he did in the XKI WW game.I can see how you might equate Lau to Tuga especially since I didn't specify what I meant, but I'm not. I really really don't think it's Lau at this point just based on how he's posting, and with how BSR is saying that he has mechanically cleared Lau it really doesn't seem to be an option at all. :p That's one of the scummiest things you've said this game to me, though I suppose a wolf would be more likely to remember who's clearing who.
Well I'm going to keep trying to analyze this nonsense. Maybe I'll come up with something better.
I think based on the parallels and dissimilarities in posting style that Flying is now suspicious enough to be properly wagoned. If you follow with my theory that at least most of the wolves are much more inactive, it would make sense that Flying would follow along with the game without a very clear mastermind such as the likes of Lau, enough to merge into the background and coming up here and there to jump on a suspicion or thought someone has already stated. (If you ISO all his posts by clicking on his profile and "show posts" you might see what I mean.)
@Minish if you're not willing to go for Willie (hehe), would you be alright with a Flying vote as opposed to ENE and ogun? I'm fine with letting Willie go since the town is so split :/ I'm aware that my suspicious nature will make people unlikely to join my Willie wagon, and we need to set up someone along with me. If I'm wrong and Flying really is too wolfie to be a wolf, I will be unhappy but at least it will remove one more suspicion from this game.
Thank you for sharing this info with us Wisch, it was quite illuminating.
And thank you Sapph, that is quite interesting.
Hapi, oh Hapi... frankly I've been avoiding responding to your post. Suffice it to say that as a final gambit I can easily make Minish at least aware of my role without breaking any rules if I'm on the line and really want to survive.
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 04:03:52 AM
I can see how you might equate Lau to Tuga especially since I didn't specify what I meant, but I'm not. I really really don't think it's Lau at this point just based on how he's posting, and with how BSR is saying that he has mechanically cleared Lau it really doesn't seem to be an option at all. :p That's one of the scummiest things you've said this game to me, though I suppose a wolf would be more likely to remember who's clearing who.Oh, don't get me wrong, I fully agree. I've said several times I trust Lau as town. Saying Lau is the "genius mastermind" was meant more as a joke. I'm funny, I swear. :P
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 04:25:15 AM
Oh, don't get me wrong, I fully agree. I've said several times I trust Lau as town. Saying Lau is the "genius mastermind" was meant more as a joke. I'm funny, I swear. :PAlright then, my bad. It caught me a little off guard.
Funny? In Werewolf?!?! Bah, HUMBUG!!! :))
Post by: Red Mones on December 15, 2020, 05:07:00 AM
Vroendal - 1 (Laurentus)
Wille-Harlia - 1 (Vroendal)
HumanSanity - 1 (Doc)
Wischland - 1 (Hapi)
Flying Eagles - 1 (Gerrick)
@turtle, @HumanSanity, and @BraveSirRobin need to vote this day phase or they will be lynched for inactivity (missing two votes in a row).
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 15, 2020, 05:08:09 AM
But how much more time do we have?
Post by: Red Mones on December 15, 2020, 05:10:37 AM
Post by: TGN on December 15, 2020, 05:16:33 AM
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 15, 2020, 05:25:37 AM
@Laurentus Analysis of this? If he can rope Minish in and this isn't a bluff we could go with a different scum core this round? I'm not certainBut I'm not sure if that carries over to this game. FE's posts haven't really gained any traction nor do the arguments seem to align with anyone player. The only thing I'm seeing is that he voted for you, Vro, after Lau did, and when Lau switched to Michi, so did FE. But FE also targeted Lau earlier, without much success. So maybe Lau is really the genius mastermind and has fooled us all. Or maybe FE is just making questionable posts because he's not really sure what's happening and doesn't have the same time to consider things as he did in the XKI WW game.I can see how you might equate Lau to Tuga especially since I didn't specify what I meant, but I'm not. I really really don't think it's Lau at this point just based on how he's posting, and with how BSR is saying that he has mechanically cleared Lau it really doesn't seem to be an option at all. :p That's one of the scummiest things you've said this game to me, though I suppose a wolf would be more likely to remember who's clearing who.
Well I'm going to keep trying to analyze this nonsense. Maybe I'll come up with something better.
I think based on the parallels and dissimilarities in posting style that Flying is now suspicious enough to be properly wagoned. If you follow with my theory that at least most of the wolves are much more inactive, it would make sense that Flying would follow along with the game without a very clear mastermind such as the likes of Lau, enough to merge into the background and coming up here and there to jump on a suspicion or thought someone has already stated. (If you ISO all his posts by clicking on his profile and "show posts" you might see what I mean.)
@Minish if you're not willing to go for Willie (hehe), would you be alright with a Flying vote as opposed to ENE and ogun? I'm fine with letting Willie go since the town is so split :/ I'm aware that my suspicious nature will make people unlikely to join my Willie wagon, and we need to set up someone along with me. If I'm wrong and Flying really is too wolfie to be a wolf, I will be unhappy but at least it will remove one more suspicion from this game.
Thank you for sharing this info with us Wisch, it was quite illuminating.
And thank you Sapph, that is quite interesting.
Hapi, oh Hapi... frankly I've been avoiding responding to your post. Suffice it to say that as a final gambit I can easily make Minish at least aware of my role without breaking any rules if I'm on the line and really want to survive.
Also Minish, with respect to your idea that information could be gleaned from players who may be hobbits and good pals if one of them kicks the bucket, I can with quite... reasonable accuracy state that might not be a great assumption to make. lol
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 15, 2020, 05:27:51 AM
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 15, 2020, 05:30:09 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 06:40:17 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 06:41:11 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 06:42:45 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 06:44:39 AM
Follow-up question: as of this moment, what is the scum count?
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 06:47:03 AM
Actually, let's dispense with the paranoia: @Red Mones or @Ruguo, should a player ever change alignment, that would reflect in the scum count, would it not?
Follow-up question: as of this moment, what is the scum count?
Why would you think it would? That would make it quite frankly obvious the moment it happened?
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 06:51:56 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 06:52:33 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 06:53:27 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 07:08:06 AM
If someone's ability was to turn a dead wolf revealing that info would in fact make that while ability pointless. Not revealing that info isn't harmful to town our job is to literally question everything and we obviously know the rez happened.
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 07:09:07 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 07:10:34 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 07:11:42 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 07:13:16 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 07:14:39 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 07:16:49 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 07:17:51 AM
But the host was lying...I was right from day 1 Lau
What?
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 07:17:57 AM
No, Hapi is not confirmed by me. If we have a Gollum, we almost certainly have a Smeagol, and I have played games where someone could fool the Seer's scan.I still consider having Smeagol a rather bold assumption considering that Gollum and Smeagol were always the same person, which is the reason Michi was unaligned. If he were just Gollum, he would be just scum. If he were Smeagol, he would be just innocent/unaligned. Gollum is the common name for him.
Fooling the Seer's scan is something I've considered since D1. I've also seen Hapi as not scum since D1. I find it far more probable anyway that any Seer scan twister would target me instead. Frankly I'm a little shocked I apparently haven't been scanned yet but ah well.
And yes I see your point. I'm also irritated at being set up as the town mislynch for every phase but I do what I can.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 07:18:03 AM
Anyways Michi and I have been very clear I'm not gollum lol though I wish I was. Perfect role
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 07:19:41 AM
But the host was lying...I was right from day 1 Lau
What?
If we had lynched the host it would've completely changed the game.
The host was lynchable. At least AFAIR. Cause I'm a genius at this game :P
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 07:21:14 AM
The Wolves literally tried to capitalise on "the host is lying" so they could avoid getting their scum bud lynched, claiming that any evidence pointing at said scum bud was a fabrication by the host.
Vote: Hapi.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 07:22:54 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 07:25:12 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 07:26:00 AM
"Town (Technically) Wins!
Were there different endings? Oh yes. Yes indeed. Am I planning to lead this storyline into something bigger? Maaaaaaybe."
Games like these tend to heavily focus on lore in portal the host would assuredly fuck with you.
In lotr why wouldn't there be a ringwraith turn for an obviously underpowered sauron team?
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 07:28:28 AM
The ending in case you forgot
"Town (Technically) Wins!
Were there different endings? Oh yes. Yes indeed. Am I planning to lead this storyline into something bigger? Maaaaaaybe."
Games like these tend to heavily focus on lore in portal the host would assuredly fuck with you.
In lotr why wouldn't there be a ringwraith turn for an obviously underpowered sauron team?
I'm not saying there wouldn't be, but that would only be fair and make sense when one of the Wolves die, and someone randomly gets taken from Town and put into scum.
And you're conflating narrative with gameplay. Silv can mess around with the story as much as she wants, but the fact remains that players' actions were what people were drawing into question, and they never had a reason to.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 15, 2020, 07:29:11 AM
My plan for the day? I really want to see one of the people categorised as Null lynched just to acquire further information. And I shall be going for Vote: Ogun
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 07:33:20 AM
Why Ogun, though?
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 07:34:20 AM
The ending in case you forgot
"Town (Technically) Wins!
Were there different endings? Oh yes. Yes indeed. Am I planning to lead this storyline into something bigger? Maaaaaaybe."
Games like these tend to heavily focus on lore in portal the host would assuredly fuck with you.
In lotr why wouldn't there be a ringwraith turn for an obviously underpowered sauron team?
I'm not saying there wouldn't be, but that would only be fair and make sense when one of the Wolves die, and someone randomly gets taken from Town and put into scum.
And you're conflating narrative with gameplay. Silv can mess around with the story as much as she wants, but the fact remains that players' actions were what people were drawing into question, and they never had a reason to.
There was actually very much a reason to though. Silv spent the whole game leaving a trail of breadcrumbs that nobody followed. And was clearly intended as a target based on flavor and my d1 joke vote showing up in the vote count.
Anyways whatever we can continue to assume Daws is town but I will not lock him if he's not cleared
Sorry not sorry. This is exactly what I would do as a host.
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 07:34:28 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 07:35:49 AM
Vote:ogunbiyi6422
Why not I think they're wolf anyways and nobody wants to follow Wisch so
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 07:39:11 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 07:55:36 AM
Again, at this point, Vro just needs to die. The tone seems genuine, but the actions taken so far paint a different story, and I consider it the best worst-case scenario if Vro gets lynched, anyway, as not targeting anyone in the night phases is either a lie, or a sign that we wouldn't be losing an insanely valuable ability if he flips Town. Also, I legitimately don't see how lynching any one player provides more info to the remaining ones than lynching any other player.
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 08:01:14 AM
Vote: VroendalWhat if I have a one-shot ability I'm dutifully saving?
Again, at this point, Vro just needs to die. The tone seems genuine, but the actions taken so far paint a different story, and I consider it the best worst-case scenario if Vro gets lynched, anyway, as not targeting anyone in the night phases is either a lie, or a sign that we wouldn't be losing an insanely valuable ability if he flips Town. Also, I legitimately don't see how lynching any one player provides more info to the remaining ones than lynching any other player.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 15, 2020, 08:02:29 AM
Did you read my most previous post, I think I clarified everything as I went through over 20 pages of text, this is my second time playing but I think you should read my post above, if that isn't town lean, I don't know what to tell youFurthermore, in his latest post defending himself, there is a weird inclusion to defend TGN even though there isn't really a wagon against him right now. And a lack of voting does not indicate a lack of desire to join bandwagon, it's a contorted link.
Being more willing to accuse someone and then proceed to have your arguments destroyed often makes you more sus. That is probably one of the factors to why TGN is being seen as scum, and the point that he is pretending to be an inexperienced and careless player is interesting to say the least. I think that is also one of my mistakes from not voting in round 1, though I could argue it shows that I try to avoid jumping the bandwagon.And no, getting rid of a major player like Lau is not necessarily to the advantage of the Wolves. Our constant confusion over the lack of deaths and consequently lack of signs have led to admittedly unproductive discussions, besides finding out and killing off an unaligned. Killing off Lau, the perceived Town Leader, would secure his following as Town Core and that voting bloc can start voting off the rest.
But since I'm being accused, lets think like scum. :D I am sure this may backfire but why not. If I was scum, I think the best thing scum would do would be to take out one of the major players that have been confirmed to be town, which would be Lau, and maybe someone like Hapi or Gerrick?
Post by: Eastern New England on December 15, 2020, 08:02:57 AM
My town reads who voted Michi:It's getting rather close to EoD, I should probably vote now.Who are the players you're Town reading?
Vote: Michi
Many of the players I town-read are voting Michi, so I trust their judgement on top of my own. As Wisch pointed out, there are also a bunch of mechanical reasons.
Also - I'm running out of time and I prefer to stay alive ^-^
- Laurentus: Laurentus seems to have an aggressive playstyle, more aggressive than I would expect from a wolf. People who have played with them have also said that the style seems normal for their town-meta. AFAIK he has also been mechanically cleared by BSR.
- Wischland: I've only played with Wischland as town, but the way that she is currently acting and her post style pretty much sums up what I'd expect from her.
- Doc: Doc seems to come with good, logical arguments every now and then. They seem like town lean to me.
- Sapphiron: Sapphiron has cleared Hapi and Wintermoot, if I understand correctly? I can't really see a wolf clearing two people mechanically, especially if they are the same team.
- Wintermoot: Wintermoot is here solely because they are cleared and haven't done anything overly suspicious to make me think differently of them.
It's a bit hard to make reads on a bunch of people you don't know, so I could very well be wrong, but this is what made sense to me.
The 4 scum may be -I find this scum team a bit... weird. It seems highly unlikely to me. What are the odds that the scum are all XKI'ers?
Wille-Harlia
Flying
Human
ENE
I have to admit, XKI Werewolf is slower and the reason why we're this inactive is partially because it's hard to follow 55 pages of posts, but also because we never really post as much. As Wisch pointed out, I myself only post around twice per day phase. The reason I didn't post day 1 was because I was rather confused and overwhelmed to say the least (I'm not that practiced at forum WW). I wasn't used to the Random Voting Stage either and I didn't want to wagon (which I ended up doing day 2 instead, because we only have one no-lynch throughout the game O:-)).
Back to the point, I will not dismiss this scum list, but realistically it's only 1 or 2 of those players as wolf. I know why Vro and many others are mainly scum reading XKI'ers, since our regular, "inactive" playstyle very much borders the inactive scum meta of Wintreath.
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 08:06:37 AM
@Vroendal, do you have one of the 3, the 7 or the 9?
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 08:08:03 AM
This is a pretty fair judgment to make. But I also don't see why it should be dismissed when at this point it could only probably be a few players, the chances really aren't that far of a long shot. Realistically anyway, it's at least 1 or 2, but we've got to start somewhere. I say 2 seems very probable based on how the game has gone. Ty for posting, I understand it's been overwhelming and I admit my part in causing that.The 4 scum may be -I find this scum team a bit... weird. It seems highly unlikely to me. What are the odds that the scum are all XKI'ers?
Wille-Harlia
Flying
Human
ENE
I have to admit, XKI Werewolf is slower and the reason why we're this inactive is partially because it's hard to follow 55 pages of posts, but also because we never really post as much. As Wisch pointed out, I myself only post around twice per day phase. The reason I didn't post day 1 was because I was rather confused and overwhelmed to say the least (I'm not that practiced at forum WW). I wasn't used to the Random Voting Stage either and I didn't want to wagon (which I ended up doing day 2 instead, because we only have one no-lynch throughout the game O:-)).
Back to the point, I will not dismiss this scum list, but realistically it's only 1 or 2 of those players as wolf. I know why Vro and many others are mainly scum reading XKI'ers, since our regular, "inactive" playstyle very much borders the inactive scum meta of Wintreath.
That said, who do you think it is?
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 08:10:04 AM
Hmm. Let's see how I can test this.Why do you think that only those options exist in this game?
@Vroendal, do you have one of the 3, the 7 or the 9?
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 08:12:08 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 08:14:12 AM
Because I have one of the 3.Oh that's cool! :D I'm actually jealous, imagine having any of those options.
Post by: Gerrick on December 15, 2020, 08:15:57 AM
Yeah, none of those players were cleared before you made your vote for Michi on Day 2. Those clears were all made since Night 2.My town reads who voted Michi:It's getting rather close to EoD, I should probably vote now.Who are the players you're Town reading?
Vote: Michi
Many of the players I town-read are voting Michi, so I trust their judgement on top of my own. As Wisch pointed out, there are also a bunch of mechanical reasons.
Also - I'm running out of time and I prefer to stay alive ^-^
- Laurentus: Laurentus seems to have an aggressive playstyle, more aggressive than I would expect from a wolf. People who have played with them have also said that the style seems normal for their town-meta. AFAIK he has also been mechanically cleared by BSR.
- Wischland: I've only played with Wischland as town, but the way that she is currently acting and her post style pretty much sums up what I'd expect from her.
- Doc: Doc seems to come with good, logical arguments every now and then. They seem like town lean to me.
- Sapphiron: Sapphiron has cleared Hapi and Wintermoot, if I understand correctly? I can't really see a wolf clearing two people mechanically, especially if they are the same team.
- Wintermoot: Wintermoot is here solely because they are cleared and haven't done anything overly suspicious to make me think differently of them.
It's a bit hard to make reads on a bunch of people you don't know, so I could very well be wrong, but this is what made sense to me.
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 08:17:00 AM
Because I have one of the 3.Oh that's cool! :D I'm actually jealous, imagine having any of those options.
I am finding this rather disturbing, because I kinda get the idea you don't know how to answer.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 15, 2020, 08:19:19 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 08:24:50 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 08:26:29 AM
I am more useful alive than dead, and without revealing it.
I shall neither confirm nor deny your brilliant theories about rings.
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 08:35:33 AM
Ogun did not participate in D1 discussions, jumped in D2 to avoid inactivity lynch by joining a confirmed Michi lynch and there is something about the following quote that is part confusing, part amusing and part suspicious in his explanation to vote against Michi within a convoluted expository defence of Vro and TGNDid you read my most previous post, I think I clarified everything as I went through over 20 pages of text, this is my second time playing but I think you should read my post above, if that isn't town lean, I don't know what to tell youFurthermore, in his latest post defending himself, there is a weird inclusion to defend TGN even though there isn't really a wagon against him right now. And a lack of voting does not indicate a lack of desire to join bandwagon, it's a contorted link.Being more willing to accuse someone and then proceed to have your arguments destroyed often makes you more sus. That is probably one of the factors to why TGN is being seen as scum, and the point that he is pretending to be an inexperienced and careless player is interesting to say the least. I think that is also one of my mistakes from not voting in round 1, though I could argue it shows that I try to avoid jumping the bandwagon.And no, getting rid of a major player like Lau is not necessarily to the advantage of the Wolves. Our constant confusion over the lack of deaths and consequently lack of signs have led to admittedly unproductive discussions, besides finding out and killing off an unaligned. Killing off Lau, the perceived Town Leader, would secure his following as Town Core and that voting bloc can start voting off the rest.But since I'm being accused, lets think like scum. :D I am sure this may backfire but why not. If I was scum, I think the best thing scum would do would be to take out one of the major players that have been confirmed to be town, which would be Lau, and maybe someone like Hapi or Gerrick?
I agree with your stance here. As soon as I flip, that's 2 more people who will be permanently added to the lock-town.
Ogun, therefore, might be a good counter-wagon, or even main wagon today.
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 08:38:49 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 08:44:28 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 15, 2020, 09:09:09 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 09:42:52 AM
My town reads who voted Michi:It's getting rather close to EoD, I should probably vote now.Who are the players you're Town reading?
Vote: Michi
Many of the players I town-read are voting Michi, so I trust their judgement on top of my own. As Wisch pointed out, there are also a bunch of mechanical reasons.
Also - I'm running out of time and I prefer to stay alive ^-^
- Laurentus: Laurentus seems to have an aggressive playstyle, more aggressive than I would expect from a wolf. People who have played with them have also said that the style seems normal for their town-meta. AFAIK he has also been mechanically cleared by BSR.
- Wischland: I've only played with Wischland as town, but the way that she is currently acting and her post style pretty much sums up what I'd expect from her.
- Doc: Doc seems to come with good, logical arguments every now and then. They seem like town lean to me.
- Sapphiron: Sapphiron has cleared Hapi and Wintermoot, if I understand correctly? I can't really see a wolf clearing two people mechanically, especially if they are the same team.
- Wintermoot: Wintermoot is here solely because they are cleared and haven't done anything overly suspicious to make me think differently of them.
It's a bit hard to make reads on a bunch of people you don't know, so I could very well be wrong, but this is what made sense to me.The 4 scum may be -I find this scum team a bit... weird. It seems highly unlikely to me. What are the odds that the scum are all XKI'ers?
Wille-Harlia
Flying
Human
ENE
I have to admit, XKI Werewolf is slower and the reason why we're this inactive is partially because it's hard to follow 55 pages of posts, but also because we never really post as much. As Wisch pointed out, I myself only post around twice per day phase. The reason I didn't post day 1 was because I was rather confused and overwhelmed to say the least (I'm not that practiced at forum WW). I wasn't used to the Random Voting Stage either and I didn't want to wagon (which I ended up doing day 2 instead, because we only have one no-lynch throughout the game O:-)).
Back to the point, I will not dismiss this scum list, but realistically it's only 1 or 2 of those players as wolf. I know why Vro and many others are mainly scum reading XKI'ers, since our regular, "inactive" playstyle very much borders the inactive scum meta of Wintreath.
Actually, and this not to tinfoil, but with the rules being what they are, there is very little preventing Wolves from adopting the same strategy as the Town leaders, and adding their scum buds into their Town Cores one at a time every other night phase. Any player can make any statement, say 'mechanically cleared' and you'd have very little reason to disagree. It's a risky strategy, sure, but I would expect at least one Wolf to try if the going got tough.
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 10:34:28 AM
Anyway, I am currently working on a graph which showcases how often the players of the game have mentioned, addressed or spoken about other players, by post count. My hope is that this will help us see who might be trying to avoid each other and who might be a bit too chummy.
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 10:50:28 AM
From @Flying Eagles. I'm quoting this from that print view. It's Flying Eagles' first post of D2, I think.
How do we rate the odds that this is a derp-clear? (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Derp_Clear) @Sapphiron and @Minish especially, I would like you to weigh in.
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 10:53:23 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 11:14:34 AM
Yeah, I'm not really sure about Vro but now that I think about it, the whole Hapi-Michi joined at the hip thing has been concerning. I swear I saw Red Mones state somewhere that there are 16 townies but I can't find that post anymore.
Anyway, I must conclude that there's a solid chance at least one of them are wolves.
Change vote: Michi"
and
"1) Myself, Daws
2) TGN, turtle
3) Hapi, Sapph, Lau
4) Others
5) Not really sure to be honest, haven't had the time to follow closely enough.
6) None
7) None
Is Michi dead? I'm really confused here."
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 11:42:35 AM
To @Laurentus specifically but also everyone else while honestly at this point I would be fine with and understand the motivation behind lynching me if just for information and to remove the doubt from everyone's mind to focus on those who need to be focused on, I would much rather remain alive, as I am far more useful that way. Lau I've been approaching the game as I have for a reason, I never seem to shut up do I? XD
I'm a stickler for the host's rules when I remember them, and I'm in the I think unique situation where my role and my character actively relates to one another, meaning if either one is revealed the other is instantly obvious to the experienced player. That being so I have avoided everything related to it just out of honor and because revealing it literally could give my role to the scum, rendering it useless on some levels. If you would like me to hint at my role I will, but I have avoided doing so thus far.Which role is best served from not minding death from scum, but minding death from town, that doesn't visit, and that's not afraid to be talkative and be wrong from the get-go?
I am more useful alive than dead, and without revealing it.
I shall neither confirm nor deny your brilliant theories about rings.
@Minish I know that you can figure it out the most easily. If you need more hints I can try to be creative, my brain is fried right now I need sleep.
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 12:02:39 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 12:12:20 PM
Okay, yeah. Note to scum: If you kill a Loudmouth, you will be iced the next day, because whoever performs that action will get revealed the next day. So the question you really gotta ask yourself is: do you feel lucky?
Vote: Ogunbiyi
For pretty much all the things Sapph pointed out earlier, and I will note that I found Ogun's defence of himself equally weird in my reads list.
Post by: Eastern New England on December 15, 2020, 12:17:27 PM
Good point. I forgot to look when the posts were made. My top three town-reads are still valid, though.Yeah, none of those players were cleared before you made your vote for Michi on Day 2. Those clears were all made since Night 2.My town reads who voted Michi:It's getting rather close to EoD, I should probably vote now.Who are the players you're Town reading?
Vote: Michi
Many of the players I town-read are voting Michi, so I trust their judgement on top of my own. As Wisch pointed out, there are also a bunch of mechanical reasons.
Also - I'm running out of time and I prefer to stay alive ^-^
- Laurentus: Laurentus seems to have an aggressive playstyle, more aggressive than I would expect from a wolf. People who have played with them have also said that the style seems normal for their town-meta. AFAIK he has also been mechanically cleared by BSR.
- Wischland: I've only played with Wischland as town, but the way that she is currently acting and her post style pretty much sums up what I'd expect from her.
- Doc: Doc seems to come with good, logical arguments every now and then. They seem like town lean to me.
- Sapphiron: Sapphiron has cleared Hapi and Wintermoot, if I understand correctly? I can't really see a wolf clearing two people mechanically, especially if they are the same team.
- Wintermoot: Wintermoot is here solely because they are cleared and haven't done anything overly suspicious to make me think differently of them.
It's a bit hard to make reads on a bunch of people you don't know, so I could very well be wrong, but this is what made sense to me.
- Flying Eagles: FE has been acting a bit wolfy. I have only ever seen him play as wolf (as far as I recall), so his wolf and town meta might be similar.This is a pretty fair judgment to make. But I also don't see why it should be dismissed when at this point it could only probably be a few players, the chances really aren't that far of a long shot. Realistically anyway, it's at least 1 or 2, but we've got to start somewhere. I say 2 seems very probable based on how the game has gone. Ty for posting, I understand it's been overwhelming and I admit my part in causing that.The 4 scum may be -I find this scum team a bit... weird. It seems highly unlikely to me. What are the odds that the scum are all XKI'ers?
Wille-Harlia
Flying
Human
ENE
I have to admit, XKI Werewolf is slower and the reason why we're this inactive is partially because it's hard to follow 55 pages of posts, but also because we never really post as much. As Wisch pointed out, I myself only post around twice per day phase. The reason I didn't post day 1 was because I was rather confused and overwhelmed to say the least (I'm not that practiced at forum WW). I wasn't used to the Random Voting Stage either and I didn't want to wagon (which I ended up doing day 2 instead, because we only have one no-lynch throughout the game O:-)).
Back to the point, I will not dismiss this scum list, but realistically it's only 1 or 2 of those players as wolf. I know why Vro and many others are mainly scum reading XKI'ers, since our regular, "inactive" playstyle very much borders the inactive scum meta of Wintreath.
That said, who do you think it is?
- HumanSanity: Hard to read, could swing either way. Null read for now.
- Wille-Harlia: W-H is also hard for me to read. Also a null read.
Those were the XKI players. Now to the rest.
- Ogunbiyi: Ogun hasn't been making a lot of sense to me and it's quite possible that he's a wolf.
- Vroendal: Vro seems to act a bit wolfy, I read them as lean scum.
Those seem the most likely to me, even though I am not that good at making scum reads. If there is a second "XKI Werewolf", it'd be inbetween HS and W-H for me (assuming that FE is the first).
I'm unsure what tinfoiling means, but I can see your logic. I guess I didn't consider mechanically clearing someone as a wolf meta, because I wouldn't do it as a wolf. But I don't know your playstyles very well yet, so I should have assumed differently :PMy town reads who voted Michi:It's getting rather close to EoD, I should probably vote now.Who are the players you're Town reading?
Vote: Michi
Many of the players I town-read are voting Michi, so I trust their judgement on top of my own. As Wisch pointed out, there are also a bunch of mechanical reasons.
Also - I'm running out of time and I prefer to stay alive ^-^
- Laurentus: Laurentus seems to have an aggressive playstyle, more aggressive than I would expect from a wolf. People who have played with them have also said that the style seems normal for their town-meta. AFAIK he has also been mechanically cleared by BSR.
- Wischland: I've only played with Wischland as town, but the way that she is currently acting and her post style pretty much sums up what I'd expect from her.
- Doc: Doc seems to come with good, logical arguments every now and then. They seem like town lean to me.
- Sapphiron: Sapphiron has cleared Hapi and Wintermoot, if I understand correctly? I can't really see a wolf clearing two people mechanically, especially if they are the same team.
- Wintermoot: Wintermoot is here solely because they are cleared and haven't done anything overly suspicious to make me think differently of them.
It's a bit hard to make reads on a bunch of people you don't know, so I could very well be wrong, but this is what made sense to me.The 4 scum may be -I find this scum team a bit... weird. It seems highly unlikely to me. What are the odds that the scum are all XKI'ers?
Wille-Harlia
Flying
Human
ENE
I have to admit, XKI Werewolf is slower and the reason why we're this inactive is partially because it's hard to follow 55 pages of posts, but also because we never really post as much. As Wisch pointed out, I myself only post around twice per day phase. The reason I didn't post day 1 was because I was rather confused and overwhelmed to say the least (I'm not that practiced at forum WW). I wasn't used to the Random Voting Stage either and I didn't want to wagon (which I ended up doing day 2 instead, because we only have one no-lynch throughout the game O:-)).
Back to the point, I will not dismiss this scum list, but realistically it's only 1 or 2 of those players as wolf. I know why Vro and many others are mainly scum reading XKI'ers, since our regular, "inactive" playstyle very much borders the inactive scum meta of Wintreath.
Actually, and this not to tinfoil, but with the rules being what they are, there is very little preventing Wolves from adopting the same strategy as the Town leaders, and adding their scum buds into their Town Cores one at a time every other night phase. Any player can make any statement, say 'mechanically cleared' and you'd have very little reason to disagree. It's a risky strategy, sure, but I would expect at least one Wolf to try if the going got tough.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 15, 2020, 12:18:55 PM
Vote: Ogun
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 12:27:06 PM
I'm unsure what tinfoiling means, but I can see your logic. I guess I didn't consider mechanically clearing someone as a wolf meta, because I wouldn't do it as a wolf. But I don't know your playstyles very well yet, so I should have assumed differently :P
Yeah, it's a hail-mary play by any stretch of the imagination. Or a sufficiently insane Wolf play (looks at self, Minish and Doc).
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 12:27:45 PM
Not sure if I’ll have the chance to do so later so
Vote: Ogun
Please don't vote without reasons.
Post by: Dawsinian on December 15, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Same reason as last time. If anything, he’s more sus now than he was during the last day phase.
Post by: TGN on December 15, 2020, 04:43:07 PM
1) Myself, DawsI think Michi is alive, about 80% sure
2) TGN, turtle
3) Hapi, Sapph, Lau
4) Others
5) Not really sure to be honest, haven't had the time to follow closely enough.
6) None
7) None
Is Michi dead? I'm really confused here."
also idk if being high on your list is good or not, I think so because I'm only 1 spot below you and Daws. However, I noticed that you called me "scum" and "scum lead" a few times, what made your opinion of me change? (also if you are the wrong person I'm VERY sorry)
Post by: Dawsinian on December 15, 2020, 04:43:50 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 04:45:28 PM
Post by: TGN on December 15, 2020, 04:50:02 PM
No, that's a quote from Flying Eagles. I still think you might be scum. Scum is the evil faction in this game, the one that Town is hunting.AH
Post by: Minish on December 15, 2020, 04:53:42 PM
Hmm. Let's see how I can test this.
@Vroendal, do you have one of the 3, the 7 or the 9?
Any specific reason you didn't ask about the 1?
Because not doing so would make it unfair to Town, too.
Tbf, I'm used to playing with not knowing the amount of mafia in a game so it doesn't seem unfair to me.
Well, whatever the case, I am fairly confident that a one-shot ability points to one of the rings.
Not necessarily. It's true that the rings would he x-shot abilities. However other characters could have x-shot items as well. Like just off the top of my head I think Gandalf's staff could potentially be one.
"Obviously, if the resuscitator and Dawsinian were both wolves, I could see why Dawsinian would get resuscitated. But for a townie resuscitator to go against the vote of the town and resuscitate Dawsinian. That seems somewhat less likely."
From @Flying Eagles. I'm quoting this from that print view. It's Flying Eagles' first post of D2, I think.
How do we rate the odds that this is a derp-clear? (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Derp_Clear) @Sapphiron and @Minish especially, I would like you to weigh in.
I'm not entirely sure it's a derp clear, mostly since Daws was killed during the day. So I could see mafia being unaware of what happened and not noticing the alignment flip. Though there is the fact that scumbuds would mention something about it. But I dunno, I don't put too much stock into derp clears.
That seems an excellent plan except for the ogun part Sapph. Why would lynching ogun give you more information than Flying or me? Ogun's a little low on my lynch list right now because he's said a bit without saying a bit, surely a lower priority?
This is an interesting quote. If we're still suspicious of Vro but aren't going to vote him yet I feel like Ogun might be a good choice because of this. He was in one of my three inactives we should lynch from today (if we're going that route), and here Vro is suggesting going elsewhere instead.
@Laurentus Analysis of this? If he can rope Minish in and this isn't a bluff we could go with a different scum core this round? I'm not certainBut I'm not sure if that carries over to this game. FE's posts haven't really gained any traction nor do the arguments seem to align with anyone player. The only thing I'm seeing is that he voted for you, Vro, after Lau did, and when Lau switched to Michi, so did FE. But FE also targeted Lau earlier, without much success. So maybe Lau is really the genius mastermind and has fooled us all. Or maybe FE is just making questionable posts because he's not really sure what's happening and doesn't have the same time to consider things as he did in the XKI WW game.I can see how you might equate Lau to Tuga especially since I didn't specify what I meant, but I'm not. I really really don't think it's Lau at this point just based on how he's posting, and with how BSR is saying that he has mechanically cleared Lau it really doesn't seem to be an option at all. :p That's one of the scummiest things you've said this game to me, though I suppose a wolf would be more likely to remember who's clearing who.
Well I'm going to keep trying to analyze this nonsense. Maybe I'll come up with something better.
I think based on the parallels and dissimilarities in posting style that Flying is now suspicious enough to be properly wagoned. If you follow with my theory that at least most of the wolves are much more inactive, it would make sense that Flying would follow along with the game without a very clear mastermind such as the likes of Lau, enough to merge into the background and coming up here and there to jump on a suspicion or thought someone has already stated. (If you ISO all his posts by clicking on his profile and "show posts" you might see what I mean.)
@Minish if you're not willing to go for Willie (hehe), would you be alright with a Flying vote as opposed to ENE and ogun? I'm fine with letting Willie go since the town is so split :/ I'm aware that my suspicious nature will make people unlikely to join my Willie wagon, and we need to set up someone along with me. If I'm wrong and Flying really is too wolfie to be a wolf, I will be unhappy but at least it will remove one more suspicion from this game.
Thank you for sharing this info with us Wisch, it was quite illuminating.
And thank you Sapph, that is quite interesting.
Hapi, oh Hapi... frankly I've been avoiding responding to your post. Suffice it to say that as a final gambit I can easily make Minish at least aware of my role without breaking any rules if I'm on the line and really want to survive.
Also Minish, with respect to your idea that information could be gleaned from players who may be hobbits and good pals if one of them kicks the bucket, I can with quite... reasonable accuracy state that might not be a great assumption to make. lol
Ah, fair. I had certain reason to believe that could be the case but I guess not.
Might as well hint my role now. I see where this all is going. I may not have had the best logic this game, but I still think I played my role as well as I personally was capable of at the moment. My main goal has been to publicly sus a good amount of people while simultaneously trying to clear as many as possible for myself, to get people to talk more to get better reads from what they have to say, and to be killed by scum at night.To @Laurentus specifically but also everyone else while honestly at this point I would be fine with and understand the motivation behind lynching me if just for information and to remove the doubt from everyone's mind to focus on those who need to be focused on, I would much rather remain alive, as I am far more useful that way. Lau I've been approaching the game as I have for a reason, I never seem to shut up do I? XDI'm a stickler for the host's rules when I remember them, and I'm in the I think unique situation where my role and my character actively relates to one another, meaning if either one is revealed the other is instantly obvious to the experienced player. That being so I have avoided everything related to it just out of honor and because revealing it literally could give my role to the scum, rendering it useless on some levels. If you would like me to hint at my role I will, but I have avoided doing so thus far.Which role is best served from not minding death from scum, but minding death from town, that doesn't visit, and that's not afraid to be talkative and be wrong from the get-go?
I am more useful alive than dead, and without revealing it.
I shall neither confirm nor deny your brilliant theories about rings.
@Minish I know that you can figure it out the most easily. If you need more hints I can try to be creative, my brain is fried right now I need sleep.
Any certain reason why I specifically would figure it out? Or is it just my experience with a variety of roles?
If it is loudmouth I actually don't have experience with that role. But that's a decent guess. My original thought was actually a bomb.
Post by: Minish on December 15, 2020, 04:57:21 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 04:58:39 PM
Any certain reason why I specifically would figure it out? Or is it just my experience with a variety of roles?Yes, there is a certain reason, it shouldn't stump you for long.
If it is loudmouth I actually don't have experience with that role. But that's a decent guess. My original thought was actually a bomb.
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 05:04:20 PM
Can anyone tell me why my multi-quotes will be out of order when I go to reply?Hmm. Let's see how I can test this.
@Vroendal, do you have one of the 3, the 7 or the 9?
Any specific reason you didn't ask about the 1?Because not doing so would make it unfair to Town, too.
Tbf, I'm used to playing with not knowing the amount of mafia in a game so it doesn't seem unfair to me.Well, whatever the case, I am fairly confident that a one-shot ability points to one of the rings.
Not necessarily. It's true that the rings would he x-shot abilities. However other characters could have x-shot items as well. Like just off the top of my head I think Gandalf's staff could potentially be one."Obviously, if the resuscitator and Dawsinian were both wolves, I could see why Dawsinian would get resuscitated. But for a townie resuscitator to go against the vote of the town and resuscitate Dawsinian. That seems somewhat less likely."
From @Flying Eagles. I'm quoting this from that print view. It's Flying Eagles' first post of D2, I think.
How do we rate the odds that this is a derp-clear? (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Derp_Clear) @Sapphiron and @Minish especially, I would like you to weigh in.
I'm not entirely sure it's a derp clear, mostly since Daws was killed during the day. So I could see mafia being unaware of what happened and not noticing the alignment flip. Though there is the fact that scumbuds would mention something about it. But I dunno, I don't put too much stock into derp clears.That seems an excellent plan except for the ogun part Sapph. Why would lynching ogun give you more information than Flying or me? Ogun's a little low on my lynch list right now because he's said a bit without saying a bit, surely a lower priority?
This is an interesting quote. If we're still suspicious of Vro but aren't going to vote him yet I feel like Ogun might be a good choice because of this. He was in one of my three inactives we should lynch from today (if we're going that route), and here Vro is suggesting going elsewhere instead.@Laurentus Analysis of this? If he can rope Minish in and this isn't a bluff we could go with a different scum core this round? I'm not certainBut I'm not sure if that carries over to this game. FE's posts haven't really gained any traction nor do the arguments seem to align with anyone player. The only thing I'm seeing is that he voted for you, Vro, after Lau did, and when Lau switched to Michi, so did FE. But FE also targeted Lau earlier, without much success. So maybe Lau is really the genius mastermind and has fooled us all. Or maybe FE is just making questionable posts because he's not really sure what's happening and doesn't have the same time to consider things as he did in the XKI WW game.I can see how you might equate Lau to Tuga especially since I didn't specify what I meant, but I'm not. I really really don't think it's Lau at this point just based on how he's posting, and with how BSR is saying that he has mechanically cleared Lau it really doesn't seem to be an option at all. :p That's one of the scummiest things you've said this game to me, though I suppose a wolf would be more likely to remember who's clearing who.
Well I'm going to keep trying to analyze this nonsense. Maybe I'll come up with something better.
I think based on the parallels and dissimilarities in posting style that Flying is now suspicious enough to be properly wagoned. If you follow with my theory that at least most of the wolves are much more inactive, it would make sense that Flying would follow along with the game without a very clear mastermind such as the likes of Lau, enough to merge into the background and coming up here and there to jump on a suspicion or thought someone has already stated. (If you ISO all his posts by clicking on his profile and "show posts" you might see what I mean.)
@Minish if you're not willing to go for Willie (hehe), would you be alright with a Flying vote as opposed to ENE and ogun? I'm fine with letting Willie go since the town is so split :/ I'm aware that my suspicious nature will make people unlikely to join my Willie wagon, and we need to set up someone along with me. If I'm wrong and Flying really is too wolfie to be a wolf, I will be unhappy but at least it will remove one more suspicion from this game.
Thank you for sharing this info with us Wisch, it was quite illuminating.
And thank you Sapph, that is quite interesting.
Hapi, oh Hapi... frankly I've been avoiding responding to your post. Suffice it to say that as a final gambit I can easily make Minish at least aware of my role without breaking any rules if I'm on the line and really want to survive.
Also Minish, with respect to your idea that information could be gleaned from players who may be hobbits and good pals if one of them kicks the bucket, I can with quite... reasonable accuracy state that might not be a great assumption to make. lol
Ah, fair. I had certain reason to believe that could be the case but I guess not.Might as well hint my role now. I see where this all is going. I may not have had the best logic this game, but I still think I played my role as well as I personally was capable of at the moment. My main goal has been to publicly sus a good amount of people while simultaneously trying to clear as many as possible for myself, to get people to talk more to get better reads from what they have to say, and to be killed by scum at night.To @Laurentus specifically but also everyone else while honestly at this point I would be fine with and understand the motivation behind lynching me if just for information and to remove the doubt from everyone's mind to focus on those who need to be focused on, I would much rather remain alive, as I am far more useful that way. Lau I've been approaching the game as I have for a reason, I never seem to shut up do I? XDI'm a stickler for the host's rules when I remember them, and I'm in the I think unique situation where my role and my character actively relates to one another, meaning if either one is revealed the other is instantly obvious to the experienced player. That being so I have avoided everything related to it just out of honor and because revealing it literally could give my role to the scum, rendering it useless on some levels. If you would like me to hint at my role I will, but I have avoided doing so thus far.Which role is best served from not minding death from scum, but minding death from town, that doesn't visit, and that's not afraid to be talkative and be wrong from the get-go?
I am more useful alive than dead, and without revealing it.
I shall neither confirm nor deny your brilliant theories about rings.
@Minish I know that you can figure it out the most easily. If you need more hints I can try to be creative, my brain is fried right now I need sleep.
Any certain reason why I specifically would figure it out? Or is it just my experience with a variety of roles?
If it is loudmouth I actually don't have experience with that role. But that's a decent guess. My original thought was actually a bomb.
No reason for not asking about the one. I was actually just trying to ask if he had a ring without actually asking.
Post by: Minish on December 15, 2020, 05:10:58 PM
Any certain reason why I specifically would figure it out? Or is it just my experience with a variety of roles?Yes, there is a certain reason, it shouldn't stump you for long.
If it is loudmouth I actually don't have experience with that role. But that's a decent guess. My original thought was actually a bomb.
Wait is it a variation of that? Because I don't see too much reason why being killed by town would be a problem. Unless you pass it on.
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 05:13:45 PM
Wait is it a variation of that? Because I don't see too much reason why being killed by town would be a problem. Unless you pass it on.Lynching a town is bad just for the virtue of lynching a town and giving a mafia another night to use an ability. And role mechanic stuff makes me hesitant of dying. (one-shot)
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 05:18:27 PM
Post by: Minish on December 15, 2020, 05:18:45 PM
Wait is it a variation of that? Because I don't see too much reason why being killed by town would be a problem. Unless you pass it on.Lynching a town is bad just for the virtue of lynching a town and giving a mafia another night to use an ability. And role mechanic stuff makes me hesitant of dying. (one-shot)
Of course. Though it just seemed like you were saying there were consequences to town killing you but I think I get it. I doubt there's much chance of mafia killing you since you're potential mislynch bait if you are actually town.
I wanna ask a question just to be double sure but I'm not sure if you would get it and I'm not sure if you answering would be too against the rules. Lol.
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 05:21:26 PM
Of course. Though it just seemed like you were saying there were consequences to town killing you but I think I get it. I doubt there's much chance of mafia killing you since you're potential mislynch bait if you are actually town.Yeah. :/ Lau kept returning to me, which was my own fault I suppose but it's been discouraging.
I wanna ask a question just to be double sure but I'm not sure if you would get it and I'm not sure if you answering would be too against the rules. Lol.
You can always try asking, I'll use my own judgment. o.o
Post by: Minish on December 15, 2020, 05:30:22 PM
Of course. Though it just seemed like you were saying there were consequences to town killing you but I think I get it. I doubt there's much chance of mafia killing you since you're potential mislynch bait if you are actually town.Yeah. :/ Lau kept returning to me, which was my own fault I suppose but it's been discouraging.
I wanna ask a question just to be double sure but I'm not sure if you would get it and I'm not sure if you answering would be too against the rules. Lol.
You can always try asking, I'll use my own judgment. o.o
You a fan of special brownies? (Though maybe this question isn't great because you may not want to give the appearance that you are when in actuality the answer isn't a personal one).
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 05:36:13 PM
You a fan of special brownies? (Though maybe this question isn't great because you may not want to give the appearance that you are when in actuality the answer isn't a personal one).Sorry, I'm not getting this at all. :p I would like to ask what this is about after the game though so I might know for the future.
Post by: Minish on December 15, 2020, 05:37:30 PM
You a fan of special brownies? (Though maybe this question isn't great because you may not want to give the appearance that you are when in actuality the answer isn't a personal one).Sorry, I'm not getting this at all. :p I would like to ask what this is about after the game though so I might know for the future.
It was a bit of a longshot as it requires knowing a specific slang word for something.
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 05:47:15 PM
Post by: Minish on December 15, 2020, 05:48:30 PM
I'm having even more serious doubts about Vro in light of this new info. It checks out that that would be a role with this theme (hopefully I'm not just being a big dumb here and got it). But on the off chance Vro is actually scum I'm going to work with that idea in mind for today's alternative lynch.
Michi - 9 (Laurentus, Sapphiron, Doc, Vroendal, Ogunbiyi, Wischland, Wintermoot, Flying Eagles, Eastern New England)
You have Laur, Wintermoot, and I think Sapph as all people who are being mechanically townread from that vote. Wischland actually isn't looking too bad to me right now. Doc I'm not sure on but I've liked some of his posts.
So that leaves my 3 I said earlier. Someone (think it might have been Sapph?) made a decent post about voting ogunbiyi. And his vote is right in the middle which is a good spot for scum to nestle. So I think he's probably a decent choice for today.
Vote: Ogunbiyi
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 05:50:43 PM
Change vote: ogunbiyi6422
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 15, 2020, 05:56:52 PM
I try to think that I tend to try to be a more careful player, lurking in the shadows and reading people's posts, though that often backfires, like now. Being more willing to accuse someone and then proceed to have your arguments destroyed often makes you more sus. That is probably one of the factors to why TGN is being seen as scum, and the point that he is pretending to be an inexperienced and careless player is interesting to say the least. I think that is also one of my mistakes from not voting in round 1, though I could argue it shows that I try to avoid jumping the bandwagon.Isn't TGN actually inexperienced and not pretending to be inexperienced?
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 06:30:30 PM
Alot of what people have already said, but generally Ogun just gives me weird vibes. Looking back through their posts they are very quiet, mainly only popping up to defend themselves, Vro, and TGN, without making any accusations or providing opinions on other people. Their highly defensive playstyle, especially when so closely focused on a select few players strikes me as suspicious. If Ogun does turn out to be scum, I'd suggest we follow up by lynching TGN and Vro. Otherwise, Ogun has just made some strange comments, for example, voting for Michi without any explained reasoning besides "'my precious' vibes" on D2 while also claiming not to be jumping on the bandwagon. Reading between the lines as if Ogun were scum, this says to me that they know Michi isn't scum and don't really understand all the arguments behind lynching that way, but will go with it because it's a mislynch. Weird stuff, hence the vote.
A side note on Vro, while I do understand the suspicion on Vro, I believe Ogun seems more scummy than Vro does. Vro still gives me townie vibes, and it kinda seems like people have been voting for Vro cause they don't know where else to turn. If Ogun does turn out to be scum, then, for the reasons above, I'll be more open to lynching Vro. But not today.
Post by: Red Mones on December 15, 2020, 06:32:39 PM
The current vote count is:
Ogunbiyi - 7 (Laurentus, Vroendal, Hapi, Sapphiron, Flying Eagles, Minish, Wischland)
Vroendal - 2 (BraveSirRobin, Dawsinian)
HumanSanity - 1 (Doc)
Flying Eagles - 1 (Gerrick)
Actually, let's dispense with the paranoia: @Red Mones or @Ruguo, should a player ever change alignment, that would reflect in the scum count, would it not?We can neither confirm or deny your questions.
Follow-up question: as of this moment, what is the scum count?
Also, while I said I would not enforce the rule against role hinting, I would like to remind everyone if this point Laurentus made:
Okay, so there is a strategy that we could actually employ here to make this a guaranteed win for Town: I could demand everyone to hint at their roles, and whoever isn't fellowship would just lose. Duplicates would lose pretty quickly, too, because then our process of elimination is just going to be for 8 people, instead of 20.I ask that you honor the rule. Of course, assume nothing from this post.
Since that is no fun, I will urge everyone not to do this, and stick to the original stipulation of "don't hint at roles."
Post by: Wintermoot on December 15, 2020, 06:33:50 PM
As for Moot, that one was an actual mistake on my part. I was feeling targeted and wanted to deflect on someone else because the stress was getting a little much for D1, I haven't played WW for months this has been rough. :/ I kinda just invented reasons half-heartedly and hoped Moot would slip up and say something that actually hinted to him being wolf.I can understand not wanting to be lynched, but I can't understand why you would by your own admission make up reasons to misdirect people to someone else. In this game, that one post has felt the most wrong to me because it was so random, was initially based on nothing but your supposed feelings, and then your actual reason after Laurentus challenged you to provide it wasn't much better. I've ignored that feeling cause I thought maybe I was taking it too personal, but this post validates that when you cast suspicion on me it wasn't in good faith.
But since I'm being accused, lets think like scum. :D I am sure this may backfire but why not. If I was scum, I think the best thing scum would do would be to take out one of the major players that have been confirmed to be town, which would be Lau, and maybe someone like Hapi or Gerrick?I don't agree with your reasoning. As Laurentus has pointed out, anyone can claim to have mechanically cleared a player...when those players are then put in people's town core, we're more or less taking them at their word until there's some kind of proof otherwise. But if wolves are trying to hide in the background, then there's value in keeping Laurentus, Hapi, and Vro specifically in the game as long as possible regardless of their roles, just because they're so prominent, active, and have a tendency to end up bickering with each other to the point of obscuring other players (though it hasn't been as bad this round as it was the last). For example, a good portion of both day 2 and 3 has been spent discussing Vro specifically...he's probably by far the most discussed player in this game.
this is why I like the list, very clear to me.You like a list that puts you as possibly scum? :P
That reminds me, there was some talk about TGN this day, and I will say he seems to have an ability to quickly pick up on things...like how to use a forum and possibly how to play Werewolf. I don't have any feeling for his role one way or another, but he seems to quickly be becoming a better player.
In any case, I'm going to Vote: Vroendal this round. There's nothing I can point to specifically for him that I haven't before (besides my thoughts on his faux-suspicion towards me that I posted above), but he seems to become one of the main topics of discussion every round, and at this point I feel it's become a distraction. I feel like if we don't definitely settle who he is, we're going to be locked in the same holding pattern for the rest of the game which as I said above may be to the benefit of less active wolves that are getting lost in the shuffle. The alternative seems to be ogun, and besides my disagreement with him on the potential motives of wolves, I don't see any reason he's more (or less) suspicious than Vro.
Post by: Minish on December 15, 2020, 06:55:16 PM
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 15, 2020, 07:01:04 PM
And no, getting rid of a major player like Lau is not necessarily to the advantage of the Wolves. Our constant confusion over the lack of deaths and consequently lack of signs have led to admittedly unproductive discussions, besides finding out and killing off an unaligned. Killing off Lau, the perceived Town Leader, would secure his following as Town Core and that voting bloc can start voting off the rest.Interestingly, I actually mentioned this reasoning as to why my reasoning could have been bad, interesting how you ignored that, kind of makes me wonder if you just picked and choosed what you wanted in my long post.
Furthermore, in his latest post defending himself, there is a weird inclusion to defend TGN even though there isn't really a wagon against him right now. And a lack of voting does not indicate a lack of desire to join bandwagon, it's a contorted link.I was merely responding to Lau's arguments as Lau has said throughout the game that he suspected TGN was scum and that I thought the point that TGN was being told to fake being ignorant was interesting to say the least.
So yeah, I think I understand your responses but don't really suggest scum in my view.
Funny that I said that my post would almost definitely backfire and everyone would vote me, at least I know my thinking is partly true. Seems that everyone has jumped on the banwagon to vote for me, your loss I guess.
I vote Vro, simply because earlier he not even suspected me at all and most likely jumped the banwagon on my vote so that at least they get saved this round. That is why I will state again that the wolf/Vro was smart in this round and didn't kill someone most likely because it would take the eyes off of him onto the "inactives," removing 1 townsperson, and giving him another night to kill, inching his way to victory.
Thank you for reading!
Post by: TGN on December 15, 2020, 07:02:32 PM
Vote Ogunwait... I play defensively?
Alot of what people have already said, but generally Ogun just gives me weird vibes. Looking back through their posts they are very quiet, mainly only popping up to defend themselves, Vro, and TGN, without making any accusations or providing opinions on other people. Their highly defensive playstyle, especially when so closely focused on a select few players strikes me as suspicious. If Ogun does turn out to be scum, I'd suggest we follow up by lynching TGN and Vro. Otherwise, Ogun has just made some strange comments, for example, voting for Michi without any explained reasoning besides "'my precious' vibes" on D2 while also claiming not to be jumping on the bandwagon. Reading between the lines as if Ogun were scum, this says to me that they know Michi isn't scum and don't really understand all the arguments behind lynching that way, but will go with it because it's a mislynch. Weird stuff, hence the vote.
A side note on Vro, while I do understand the suspicion on Vro, I believe Ogun seems more scummy than Vro does. Vro still gives me townie vibes, and it kinda seems like people have been voting for Vro cause they don't know where else to turn. If Ogun does turn out to be scum, then, for the reasons above, I'll be more open to lynching Vro. But not today.
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 07:05:15 PM
If I'm picking up what Vro is putting down then his lynch wouldn't be awful besides the fact it would be a mislynch. So I won't fight it too hard, but I do think we can also gain some information from lynching elsewhere on the Michi wagon.I quite agree. I am completely fine with dying since it gives town one less worry, I would just prefer not to die as a lynch when there are still 4 confirmed scum left. I agree with Moot in that I am the most discussed player which is not a good thing. I need to go, people won't even trust scans at this point, I would just prefer if it weren't here and now this very Day Phase and that hopefully we lynch a wolf here.
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 15, 2020, 07:06:49 PM
I think they were trying to say that I only came to defend you and others though that was merely to try and chime into the conversation but yeah. I still don't think you are scum, but my opinion doesn't matter since I'm being voted anyway.Vote Ogunwait... I play defensively?
Alot of what people have already said, but generally Ogun just gives me weird vibes. Looking back through their posts they are very quiet, mainly only popping up to defend themselves, Vro, and TGN, without making any accusations or providing opinions on other people. Their highly defensive playstyle, especially when so closely focused on a select few players strikes me as suspicious. If Ogun does turn out to be scum, I'd suggest we follow up by lynching TGN and Vro. Otherwise, Ogun has just made some strange comments, for example, voting for Michi without any explained reasoning besides "'my precious' vibes" on D2 while also claiming not to be jumping on the bandwagon. Reading between the lines as if Ogun were scum, this says to me that they know Michi isn't scum and don't really understand all the arguments behind lynching that way, but will go with it because it's a mislynch. Weird stuff, hence the vote.
A side note on Vro, while I do understand the suspicion on Vro, I believe Ogun seems more scummy than Vro does. Vro still gives me townie vibes, and it kinda seems like people have been voting for Vro cause they don't know where else to turn. If Ogun does turn out to be scum, then, for the reasons above, I'll be more open to lynching Vro. But not today.
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 07:08:08 PM
I vote Vro, simply because earlier he not even suspected me at all and most likely jumped the banwagon on my vote so that at least they get saved this round. That is why I will state again that the wolf/Vro was smart in this round and didn't kill someone most likely because it would take the eyes off of him onto the "inactives," removing 1 townsperson, and giving him another night to kill, inching his way to victory.I would like to clarify that not once have I said I thought you were innocent, I've merely been null reading you without downgrading you to scum. I just thought there were other people we could be asking about as well before moving on so quickly.
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 15, 2020, 07:08:42 PM
You unfortunately will not be getting a wolf lynch this turn, since they are lynching me, but I know you are the scum!!!!If I'm picking up what Vro is putting down then his lynch wouldn't be awful besides the fact it would be a mislynch. So I won't fight it too hard, but I do think we can also gain some information from lynching elsewhere on the Michi wagon.I quite agree. I am completely fine with dying since it gives town one less worry, I would just prefer not to die as a lynch when there are still 4 confirmed scum left. I agree with Moot in that I am the most discussed player which is not a good thing. I need to go, people won't even trust scans at this point, I would just prefer if it weren't here and now this very Day Phase and that hopefully we lynch a wolf here.
*begins pointing voraciously*
You may have been able to fool them by getting them off you for one round, but you can't deceive me!
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 15, 2020, 07:08:58 PM
Actually, if this whole "TGN is inexperienced" thing is a ruse, and Ogun's cooperating with TGN in scum-chat, then publicly exposing it is either incompetence or an attempt to personally get off the hook.I try to think that I tend to try to be a more careful player, lurking in the shadows and reading people's posts, though that often backfires, like now. Being more willing to accuse someone and then proceed to have your arguments destroyed often makes you more sus. That is probably one of the factors to why TGN is being seen as scum, and the point that he is pretending to be an inexperienced and careless player is interesting to say the least. I think that is also one of my mistakes from not voting in round 1, though I could argue it shows that I try to avoid jumping the bandwagon.Isn't TGN actually inexperienced and not pretending to be inexperienced?
If neither of those scenarios are believable, we likely have to assume Ogun's not a wolf.
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 15, 2020, 07:13:21 PM
I believe it was Lau that suggested the "TGN is inexperienced ruse," is being told to him by other scum so that they just excuse his erratic posts as that of a newcomer, but I don't believe that simply because I think TGN is legitimately just inexperienced and trying to survive the game.Actually, if this whole "TGN is inexperienced" thing is a ruse, and Ogun's cooperating with TGN in scum-chat, then publicly exposing it is either incompetence or an attempt to personally get off the hook.I try to think that I tend to try to be a more careful player, lurking in the shadows and reading people's posts, though that often backfires, like now. Being more willing to accuse someone and then proceed to have your arguments destroyed often makes you more sus. That is probably one of the factors to why TGN is being seen as scum, and the point that he is pretending to be an inexperienced and careless player is interesting to say the least. I think that is also one of my mistakes from not voting in round 1, though I could argue it shows that I try to avoid jumping the bandwagon.Isn't TGN actually inexperienced and not pretending to be inexperienced?
If neither of those scenarios are believable, we likely have to assume Ogun's not a wolf.
And yes, we should assume Ogun is not the wolf.
Just getting all this posting in, though I'm beginning to look and feel erratic while posting, like my fate has been sealed and I am simply trying to save myself from impending doom. At least I will be with my father. Take care of my son, will you?
Post by: Red Mones on December 15, 2020, 08:01:55 PM
Gandalf (HumanSanity), the “Seer” was lynched for inactivity.
Sam (turtle), was lynched for inactivity.
The final vote count was:
Ogunbiyi - 7 (Laurentus, Vroendal, Hapi, Sapphiron, Flying Eagles, Minish, Wischland)
Vroendal - 4 (BraveSirRobin, Dawsinian, Wintermoot, Ogunbiyi)
HumanSanity - 1 (Doc)
Flying Eagles - 1 (Gerrick)
This is the end of Day 3, and the beginning of Night 3. Phase ends in 24 hours on Wednesday, the 16th, at 12 PM PST. Please send me your night actions!
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 08:04:15 PM
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 15, 2020, 08:20:30 PM
And to Lau, the (fish) soup given to you from who I suppose is Eowyn is from a deleted scene in the movie Lord of the Rings, though I believe it was mentioned in the books.Well, this quote explains some things.
Otherwise, isoing Ogun reveals they were sus of Michi, then Vro.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 15, 2020, 08:26:40 PM
Nvm, it just proves Lau had multiple visitors that nightAnd to Lau, the (fish) soup given to you from who I suppose is Eowyn is from a deleted scene in the movie Lord of the Rings, though I believe it was mentioned in the books.Well, this quote explains some things.
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 08:44:56 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 08:48:39 PM
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 08:59:03 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 09:01:01 PM
Hmm. What are the chances that one of the scum has the ability to change which role a dead player is revealed as?I've never encountered this. Why?
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 09:01:57 PM
Hmm. What are the chances that one of the scum has the ability to change which role a dead player is revealed as?I would not discount it as a possibility for the future, but in this case as Eowyn is definitely good, ogun gave Lau two hints earlier, one about the soup and one just before the EoD (I was unable to figure out what he meant by father and son until his role was revealed), and no one is sussing him for that claim I would say that we should consider him as townie.
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 09:09:36 PM
I'm not sure how much I can reveal without breaking the rules.
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 09:10:19 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 15, 2020, 09:11:13 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 09:14:18 PM
But just to double check, Lau, you got the soup last night phase? N2?He visited me last night phase, but I only got notified when D3 started.
Sorry, guys. I missed the hints here. I'll promise to do better.
Post by: Vroendal on December 15, 2020, 09:16:58 PM
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 09:18:32 PM
He visited me last night phase, but I only got notified when D3 started.Sorry to keep chasing after you about this, I'm just trying to square things in my mind right now. Did you just learn that you got the soup, or did you specifically get told that Eowyn visited you? And if the later, it was just that Eowyn visited, without any player name attached?
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 09:33:03 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 09:33:58 PM
Also Lau, how wise do you think it is for at this point once Day Phase comes we figure out whoever rezzed Daws? I think that might clear up a few things for the future. Target or no target I think we can do a pretty good job at narrowing down who the scum might be with that information.
The answer is right there for those looking.
Post by: Wischland on December 15, 2020, 10:38:13 PM
I just got given the soup hint.Hmm ok. Well, I don't know how much more I can say, but there's something funky here about Ogun being Eowyn and them apparently visiting you to give you soup that just doesn't match up for me. But I'm not sure where to go from there and need to gather some more info, so I'll leave it alone for now.
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 10:53:43 PM
I also have reason to believe I was visited by Eowyn, but this similarly had no effect. I don't think I'm breaking any rules by sharing this, as this is as a result of someone else's actions performed on me, so I'll just share the gist of what I was told, and omit the potentially rule-violating info:
My action was not successful, and I received soup from another player, although this had no effect.
This seems to reinforce the idea that I was jailed, and I think soup could be a reference to Eowyn's scene in The Two Towers where she offers Aragorn some soup and he finds the stuff awful. At any rate, this is as much as I'm getting from Google. Will again ping @Doc to see if more can be gleamed here.
Said this literally at the beginning of D3, so what are you finding funky, @Wischland?
Post by: Laurentus on December 15, 2020, 10:56:46 PM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 15, 2020, 11:20:48 PM
Although the HumanSanity lynch really makes me question a few things, @Sapphiron. ???Well, if you don’t trust me, you can lynch me and see for yourself. HumanSanity has been operating together with me.
Post by: Doc on December 15, 2020, 11:38:36 PM
some other library joke
1) Me (Obviously, but not a very useful read for anyone else)
Minish
2)
Daws
TGN
Gerrick (evidently I should ignore my gut and listen to my head more)
Wischland ('limited' activity but useful)
3)
Lau + Vro (I've suddenly realized this war might have just been the greatest distancing play of all time, since nobody is gonna figure you guys are teammates. Still think it's TWTBAW but I'm developing increasing suspicion/paranoia over time)
ENE
Wille-Harlia (my inactive-scum theory was obviously a total wash since two of my scumspects were town, so I'm just gonna bump them up)
BSR (since we're questioning mechanical clears, how exactly has the Lau-BSR axis come to pass, again?)
4)
Hapi (still nonaligned, still not my problem)
Sapphiron (the emergence of HumanSanity as Seer creates some very clear issues for how, exactly, he's been mechanically clearing people)
Wintermoot (being 'cleared' by someone with suspect methods for said clearance is, in and of itself, problematic; we already know Hapi is, well, Hapi and thus an avatar of chaos but no such suggestions for Moot)
5)
Flying Eagles
6 and 7 empty because I continue to hold no strong negative feelings about anybody
Minish
2)
Daws
TGN
Gerrick (evidently I should ignore my gut and listen to my head more)
Wischland ('limited' activity but useful)
3)
Lau + Vro (I've suddenly realized this war might have just been the greatest distancing play of all time, since nobody is gonna figure you guys are teammates. Still think it's TWTBAW but I'm developing increasing suspicion/paranoia over time)
ENE
Wille-Harlia (my inactive-scum theory was obviously a total wash since two of my scumspects were town, so I'm just gonna bump them up)
BSR (since we're questioning mechanical clears, how exactly has the Lau-BSR axis come to pass, again?)
4)
Hapi (still nonaligned, still not my problem)
Sapphiron (the emergence of HumanSanity as Seer creates some very clear issues for how, exactly, he's been mechanically clearing people)
Wintermoot (being 'cleared' by someone with suspect methods for said clearance is, in and of itself, problematic; we already know Hapi is, well, Hapi and thus an avatar of chaos but no such suggestions for Moot)
5)
Flying Eagles
6 and 7 empty because I continue to hold no strong negative feelings about anybody
The list has some obvious points of failure, such as 'I no longer have even the semblance of 4 people I can point to and say 'I think you might be scum', which, y'know, problem since there's 4 scum left', but I guess we could just move everyone (except me obviously cause I'm amazing) down a spot.
Well, if you don’t trust me, you can lynch me and see for yourself. HumanSanity has been operating together with me.But not even a single word in defense of him when I posited him as a lynch, no matter how vanity-wagon it was? Sorta weird but okay
Post by: Sapphiron on December 15, 2020, 11:40:39 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 16, 2020, 01:28:30 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 04:13:45 AM
Although the HumanSanity lynch really makes me question a few things, @Sapphiron. ???Well, if you don’t trust me, you can lynch me and see for yourself. HumanSanity has been operating together with me.
Nope, not buying. It would make zero sense, just from the way the rest of this game has been designed, to give 2 power roles the ability to privately communicate.
So yeah. I guess it's Sapph. That's a plot twist.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 04:18:03 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 16, 2020, 04:18:36 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 16, 2020, 04:19:00 AM
Something feels fundamentally off about Wisch's questions, so right now my money is on Sapph and Wisch being at least part of this team. Hapi, as well, because whichever way you slice it, chaotic play is only ever good for scum, never for town. 10/10 would lynch.
Kill me I dare you :))
Post by: Sapphiron on December 16, 2020, 04:19:25 AM
I would not have left Middle-earth to its fate, but the hearts of Men are easily corrupted. Vote against me in the next day phase, and allow me to return at last to the Undying Lands
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 04:25:49 AM
Well, while you still draw breath, analyse. What the fuck is this game?
Post by: Wischland on December 16, 2020, 04:26:47 AM
Said this literally at the beginning of D3, so what are you finding funky, @Wischland?To clarify, nothing about what you have said in regards to this is suspicious to me. My current concern is the fact that Ogun has been identified as Eowyn. Someone, who we can reasonably assume to be Eowyn, visited you N2 and gave you soup. Therefore it should follow that Ogun visited you N2. But that conclusion doesn't line up with what I learned about that night, if you catch my drift.
Hopefully, this isn't out of line with the rules. I'm trying to be as obvious as I can without being directly revealing.
Post by: Wischland on December 16, 2020, 04:28:11 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 16, 2020, 04:32:23 AM
Post by: Wischland on December 16, 2020, 04:34:35 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 04:39:45 AM
I honestly don't know, 0 deaths at night, and only Townies (with the exception of Michi the Gollum) being lynched in the day. Even a concerted effort to break down Ogun's posts turned out to be pointless after all. I rather leave the problem solving to you guys, with my contribution to Town being my Town scans (with a subsequent night scan coming up depending on if I get role blocked) and their confirmation with my death as Seer. And yes, the 2 Seers are in direct communication.Such an outright role reveal seems completely bonkers. We're all still under the burden of rule 3.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 16, 2020, 04:40:49 AM
In case I don't make it: I've been operating under the assumption that Sapphiron was the Seer. Clearly that was not the case. So I'd be very interested to hear how he's been mechanically clearing people.I am not voluntarily role revealing, I am basing it on your assumptions. And I endorse your assumption, people don't have to believe me
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 04:41:19 AM
updating the reads list in light of the three new townies and the surprise reveal of how the fuck have some people been mechanically clearing each othersome other library joke1) Me (Obviously, but not a very useful read for anyone else)
Minish
2)
Daws
TGN
Gerrick (evidently I should ignore my gut and listen to my head more)
Wischland ('limited' activity but useful)
3)
Lau + Vro (I've suddenly realized this war might have just been the greatest distancing play of all time, since nobody is gonna figure you guys are teammates. Still think it's TWTBAW but I'm developing increasing suspicion/paranoia over time)
ENE
Wille-Harlia (my inactive-scum theory was obviously a total wash since two of my scumspects were town, so I'm just gonna bump them up)
BSR (since we're questioning mechanical clears, how exactly has the Lau-BSR axis come to pass, again?)
4)
Hapi (still nonaligned, still not my problem)
Sapphiron (the emergence of HumanSanity as Seer creates some very clear issues for how, exactly, he's been mechanically clearing people)
Wintermoot (being 'cleared' by someone with suspect methods for said clearance is, in and of itself, problematic; we already know Hapi is, well, Hapi and thus an avatar of chaos but no such suggestions for Moot)
5)
Flying Eagles
6 and 7 empty because I continue to hold no strong negative feelings about anybody
The list has some obvious points of failure, such as 'I no longer have even the semblance of 4 people I can point to and say 'I think you might be scum', which, y'know, problem since there's 4 scum left', but I guess we could just move everyone (except me obviously cause I'm amazing) down a spot.Well, if you don’t trust me, you can lynch me and see for yourself. HumanSanity has been operating together with me.But not even a single word in defense of him when I posited him as a lynch, no matter how vanity-wagon it was? Sorta weird but okay
I notice you've got Minish in as Lock-town. That's interesting.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 04:43:46 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 16, 2020, 04:44:32 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 04:47:39 AM
Bruh 2 seers in direct communication but we can only scan 1 person each night.
The irony here, Sapph, is that two defenders very much do, in most games we've had here. Even my very first Werewolf game, with you as my fellow defender, that was the case. :)) :wave:
Okay, Sapph is Wolf. Let's lynch. This annoying night phase thing can end now.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 04:48:37 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 16, 2020, 04:49:38 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 16, 2020, 04:50:15 AM
Minish locked turtle
Doc locked Minish
BSR and Lau seem to have locked each other
Sapph locked Moot and Hapi
Human has now been revealed as a Seer
Sapph will you get an investigative result tonight?
Post by: Sapphiron on December 16, 2020, 04:50:24 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 16, 2020, 04:51:06 AM
Sapph will you get an investigative result tonight?Yes, unless I get killed / roleblocked by Wolves, or modkilled as I am seeking now
Post by: Red Mones on December 16, 2020, 04:52:29 AM
Hmm...give me some time to process this.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 04:53:21 AM
Sapph will you get an investigative result tonight?Yes, unless I get killed / roleblocked by Wolves, or modkilled as I am seeking now
I mean, even that is distinct anti-town behaviour, because you'd have the chance to scan one more person for Town. Even if they do end up murdering you.
Post by: Gerrick on December 16, 2020, 04:54:44 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 16, 2020, 04:57:38 AM
Post by: Red Mones on December 16, 2020, 05:05:42 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 05:09:12 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 16, 2020, 05:12:06 AM
Seeking a modkill is abuse of the rules. I'm going to leave you in, it's up to the rest of the players to decide what they believe or how they act based on their beliefs.I respect your decision
Well, this is a predicament. I apologise if I was over-eager to lynch you, Sapph. This just provided something more concrete to go after than I've had all game.All's fair in Werewolf Lau, but I still insist on lynching me next day phase.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 05:12:45 AM
Post by: Doc on December 16, 2020, 05:16:40 AM
Doc locked MinishOh, my lock isn't mechanical, it's just 'everything I have read and the circumstances surrounding their entry leads me to trust them'.
If I wasn't supposed to use it that way, my bad, bump them down a slot then.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 05:18:13 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 16, 2020, 05:19:00 AM
Ok thank you for clarifying that alleviates my paranoia quite a bit. She would be in the second category then if I remember correctly.Doc locked MinishOh, my lock isn't mechanical, it's just 'everything I have read and the circumstances surrounding their entry leads me to trust them'.
If I wasn't supposed to use it that way, my bad, bump them down a slot then.
Post by: Sapphiron on December 16, 2020, 05:20:58 AM
I'm going along with Sapph's thinking. If he seeks honourable death, I will grant it.Thanks, I would rather that than the impression I was using the mods to confirm my role claim
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 05:21:24 AM
Gandalf and Galadriel in communication doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. Wonder if anybody would counter-claim Galadriel.
Gerrick is Town. That's a relief. I was super worried I was being played.
Post by: TGN on December 16, 2020, 05:27:15 AM
Ok, y'all are gonna hate me. I was operating off of incomplete/incorrect information which has now been corrected. Please disregard everything I have said about Ogun and the soup.no one hates you, we all make mistakes
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 07:42:09 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 08:21:01 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 08:21:26 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 16, 2020, 08:35:07 AM
Am I a particularly good scan? Maybe, might be interesting to have Minish scan me and Sapph scan Minish. Wisch I just think is town.
You would be the worst scan by far, you're acting far too townie and have been confirmed by at least BSR mechanically. If you want someone in the Core group to be scanned, have one of them scan BSR.
Ofc in talking about this we give the scum team a lot of prediction, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and decide they'll probably have figured out most of this already.
Post by: Vroendal on December 16, 2020, 08:43:47 AM
then we could decide whether to let any future scans from her (her last scan was on turtle) affect our votes.Actually upon reading back, Minish never actually said she had a mechanical reason to clear turtle, just that she had a very good one, so scratch that, I obviously need to do better I don't know how I let that idea get inside my head, ignore everything I said about it.
Am I a particularly good scan? Maybe, might be interesting to have Minish scan me and Sapph scan Minish. Wisch I just think is town.
Post by: Minish on December 16, 2020, 10:36:11 AM
Ogun flipping Eowyn is kinda why I wanted people to reveal their targets. Because we knew that Laur was visited by Eowyn so I wanted to try to figure out who that could be in a round about way.
Post by: Minish on December 16, 2020, 10:46:16 AM
Sorry if I fuck things up because I'm not working with a full picture here. I'll at least try to read everything I haven't and just not worry about quoting and providing commentary.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
I want to say that I do not have an investigative role. But due to my role (I guess you would say via passive ability) I knew with absolute 100% certainty that turtle was town. That is the only person I did or will know is town beyond a doubt. And it's a bit of a shame that turtle never posted and also confirm me as town so that y'all could lock me if he flipped.
Ogun flipping Eowyn is kinda why I wanted people to reveal their targets. Because we knew that Laur was visited by Eowyn so I wanted to try to figure out who that could be in a round about way.
There were signs, I just missed them.
Post by: Minish on December 16, 2020, 02:26:29 PM
I want to say that I do not have an investigative role. But due to my role (I guess you would say via passive ability) I knew with absolute 100% certainty that turtle was town. That is the only person I did or will know is town beyond a doubt. And it's a bit of a shame that turtle never posted and also confirm me as town so that y'all could lock me if he flipped.
Ogun flipping Eowyn is kinda why I wanted people to reveal their targets. Because we knew that Laur was visited by Eowyn so I wanted to try to figure out who that could be in a round about way.
There were signs, I just missed them.
Yeah tbh, I skimmed that one post of ogun's which is unfortunate in hindsight.
Post by: Red Mones on December 16, 2020, 04:15:38 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on December 16, 2020, 04:16:17 PM
I want to say that I do not have an investigative role. But due to my role (I guess you would say via passive ability) I knew with absolute 100% certainty that turtle was town. That is the only person I did or will know is town beyond a doubt. And it's a bit of a shame that turtle never posted and also confirm me as town so that y'all could lock me if he flipped.I get the sense from this post, the earlier discussion about 2 Seers in communication with each other, and the discussion around Gollum/Smeagol a few rounds ago that there are quite a few paired roles in this game.
I don't know what to make of the results form the day...as I said before, when someone says they've mechanically cleared, we've been taking them at their word. That being said, Sapphiron seems very earnest about his role...or he's a much better actor than I ever gave him credit for. :P I feel more strongly that he's town seeing how he's responded to suspicion tonight, but obviously I could also be biased as he has claimed to mechanically cleared me.
It was interesting to see how fast Laurentus turned on Sapphiron after trusting him without question for the entire game. I don't know that it means anything, but it seemed kinda vicious. :P
Post by: Vroendal on December 16, 2020, 04:36:23 PM
I get the sense from this post, the earlier discussion about 2 Seers in communication with each other, and the discussion around Gollum/Smeagol a few rounds ago that there are quite a few paired roles in this game.I agree, and it would follow very well canonically. I still personally don't see it likely at all that there is Smeagol as well as Gollum, but hey maybe I'm wrong. I have observed what are likely to be at least 2 all but confirmed pairings at this point, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn there's 4 altogether.
I don't know what to make of the results form the day...as I said before, when someone says they've mechanically cleared, we've been taking them at their word. That being said, Sapphiron seems very earnest about his role...or he's a much better actor than I ever gave him credit for. :P I feel more strongly that he's town seeing how he's responded to suspicion tonight, but obviously I could also be biased as he has claimed to mechanically cleared me.
It was interesting to see how fast Laurentus turned on Sapphiron after trusting him without question for the entire game. I don't know that it means anything, but it seemed kinda vicious. :P
I also will hesitantly agree with your statement regarding Sapph, I've been reading him as town since pretty much the end of day 1, and I think his explanation is creative enough and follows along enough well that I have very little doubt at this point.
I think Lau is honestly just having a case of the extreme paranoia, and I've figured out a few things about him to where I have absolutely no doubt anymore. I think he's town as much as one possibly can, and it helps that he has been mechanically cleared by BSR. I would expect Lau to be this vicious with the game going like this, the question that you've been hoodwinked after what seems an unlikely scenario is very paranoia inducing.
Post by: Minish on December 16, 2020, 05:41:51 PM
Which means we know we at least have these people left:
Frodo
Legolas
Aragorn
Gimli
Merry
Pippin
Boromir
With the amount of people left, half of them have to be these roles. Which leaves 7 unknowns, 4 of those being scum. So we have only 3 non fellowship town (or 3rd party) roles left. Vro seems to be hinting at one of those roles I believe.
Not sure if this helps but it could come in handy later.
Post by: Vroendal on December 16, 2020, 05:47:58 PM
So we've had Theoden, Gollum, Faramir, Eowyn, Gandalf, and Sam flip so far.The 3 left would be my role and the two other bearers of the elven rings. Those are all accounted for.
Which means we know we at least have these people left:
Frodo
Legolas
Aragorn
Gimli
Merry
Pippin
Boromir
With the amount of people left, half of them have to be these roles. Which leaves 7 unknowns, 4 of those being scum. So we have only 3 non fellowship town (or 3rd party) roles left. Vro seems to be hinting at one of those roles I believe.
Not sure if this helps but it could come in handy later.
Post by: Minish on December 16, 2020, 05:54:38 PM
So we've had Theoden, Gollum, Faramir, Eowyn, Gandalf, and Sam flip so far.The 3 left would be my role and the two other bearers of the elven rings. Those are all accounted for.
Which means we know we at least have these people left:
Frodo
Legolas
Aragorn
Gimli
Merry
Pippin
Boromir
With the amount of people left, half of them have to be these roles. Which leaves 7 unknowns, 4 of those being scum. So we have only 3 non fellowship town (or 3rd party) roles left. Vro seems to be hinting at one of those roles I believe.
Not sure if this helps but it could come in handy later.
Galadriel is one right? And we think that's who Sapph is?
And the other is Elrond? Who do we think that is?
My LotR knowledge is a bit rusty wasn't super deep to begin with so I may miss some connections.
Post by: Vroendal on December 16, 2020, 05:58:47 PM
Galadriel is one right? And we think that's who Sapph is?If Sapph is to be believed which I am strongly encouraged to do so then yes, Galadriel would work the best being paired with Gandalf. (Passing over any more obvious quotes or the like)
And the other is Elrond? Who do we think that is?
My LotR knowledge is a bit rusty wasn't super deep to begin with so I may miss some connections.
The last one I am the least sure of because he could be lying, but I don't think he would -
Because I have one of the 3.(In reference to asking which of the rings I have on page 55)
Post by: Minish on December 16, 2020, 06:10:10 PM
Galadriel is one right? And we think that's who Sapph is?If Sapph is to be believed which I am strongly encouraged to do so then yes, Galadriel would work the best being paired with Gandalf. (Passing over any more obvious quotes or the like)
And the other is Elrond? Who do we think that is?
My LotR knowledge is a bit rusty wasn't super deep to begin with so I may miss some connections.
The last one I am the least sure of because he could be lying, but I don't think he would -Because I have one of the 3.(In reference to asking which of the rings I have on page 55)
Ohh, right. I remembered Laur claiming to have a ring but forgot he said it was one of the 3.
Post by: Red Mones on December 16, 2020, 06:55:13 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 07:44:16 PM
I want to say that I do not have an investigative role. But due to my role (I guess you would say via passive ability) I knew with absolute 100% certainty that turtle was town. That is the only person I did or will know is town beyond a doubt. And it's a bit of a shame that turtle never posted and also confirm me as town so that y'all could lock me if he flipped.I get the sense from this post, the earlier discussion about 2 Seers in communication with each other, and the discussion around Gollum/Smeagol a few rounds ago that there are quite a few paired roles in this game.
I don't know what to make of the results form the day...as I said before, when someone says they've mechanically cleared, we've been taking them at their word. That being said, Sapphiron seems very earnest about his role...or he's a much better actor than I ever gave him credit for. :P I feel more strongly that he's town seeing how he's responded to suspicion tonight, but obviously I could also be biased as he has claimed to mechanically cleared me.
It was interesting to see how fast Laurentus turned on Sapphiron after trusting him without question for the entire game. I don't know that it means anything, but it seemed kinda vicious. :P
I mean, Sapph said it himself. All's fair in Werewolf, and he still doesn't have anything against me. That doesn't clear me, by any stretch of the imagination, but viciousness is kinda par for the course when I'm suddenly convinced a claim makes no sense. Vro can probably give you a very clear accounting of that, having experienced it first-hand in Portal Werewolf 2.
Post by: Wintermoot on December 16, 2020, 07:47:22 PM
One hour left in this night phase! Please send me your night actions if you haven't already!Some night moves by Michi (https://soundcloud.com/michiiimichii/night-moves). :P
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 07:53:20 PM
Turns out LOTR is endlessly memeable.
Post by: Red Mones on December 16, 2020, 07:59:05 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 16, 2020, 08:06:37 PM
This is the end of Night 3, and the beginning of Day 4. Phase ends in 48 hours on Friday, the 18th, at 12 PM PST.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 08:07:35 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 16, 2020, 08:09:20 PM
Post by: Minish on December 16, 2020, 08:14:12 PM
I don't buy that they're just too inactive to submit actions.
Also, Sapph was supposedly in contact with whoever was Gandalf (forgot at this point) but they were killed for inactivity. So how much chatting was actually going on there? And why did he only make any reference to them being in contact after they were killed and flipped cop? Did anyone ever see him put them as lock town? Though claiming cop is risky if you're not because obviously someone is.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 08:16:13 PM
Is scum just trying to hit the same people who are protected? Or are they just playing mind games at this point?
I don't buy that they're just too inactive to submit actions.
Also, Sapph was supposedly in contact with whoever was Gandalf (forgot at this point) but they were killed for inactivity. So how much chatting was actually going on there? And why did he only make any reference to them being in contact after they were killed and flipped cop? Did anyone ever see him put them as lock town? Though claiming cop is risky if you're not because obviously someone is.
I mean, I'm lynching Sapph anyway, but I 100% believe his claims.
Post by: Minish on December 16, 2020, 08:18:24 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 08:24:43 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 08:30:08 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 08:34:37 PM
Seeking a modkill is abuse of the rules. I'm going to leave you in, it's up to the rest of the players to decide what they believe or how they act based on their beliefs.I respect your decisionWell, this is a predicament. I apologise if I was over-eager to lynch you, Sapph. This just provided something more concrete to go after than I've had all game.All's fair in Werewolf Lau, but I still insist on lynching me next day phase.
For reference, in case it's been forgotten.
Post by: Minish on December 16, 2020, 08:35:08 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 08:37:57 PM
And the mod chose not to modkill him. I feel like lynching him on policy is going against the wishes of the mod. Otherwise he would have modkilled him for it.That's fair.
Post by: Wintermoot on December 16, 2020, 08:39:20 PM
Laurentus believes Gerrick is town, but would apparently still lynch him anyways if it would yield information. Even before the idea that Michi may be a wolf role tied to Hapi, Laurentus voted for him as a second wagon apparently for "wagonomics" (before changing his vote to Gerrick, then back to Michi). I'm concerned by his apparent willingness to sacrifice people for game mechanics, including someone he believes strongly enough to be town to defend.
You don't have to agree with it. Sapph asked to be lynched, probably as a matter of honour after not getting mod-killed.With townies like these, who need wolves? :P
It's up to the host to enforce the game rules, not us, and obviously RM has determined that it's not necessary. Taking a turn to lynch someone that we believe to be town is just a waste of a round.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 08:45:48 PM
That being said, until Sapph comes back to give a reads list, I am not going to start accusing anyone again.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 16, 2020, 08:47:07 PM
Is scum just trying to hit the same people who are protected? Or are they just playing mind games at this point?
I don't buy that they're just too inactive to submit actions.
Also, Sapph was supposedly in contact with whoever was Gandalf (forgot at this point) but they were killed for inactivity. So how much chatting was actually going on there? And why did he only make any reference to them being in contact after they were killed and flipped cop? Did anyone ever see him put them as lock town? Though claiming cop is risky if you're not because obviously someone is.
No it's been different people every night. O:-)
Anyways let's not kill more town honor or not... my only goal is to meme my way to a win.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 08:51:57 PM
For one, as insane as it sounded, I am actually starting to believe Hapi's odd claim that as long as she lives, no one will die. I think it should have been obvious for the scum who they need to kill in order to finally get to the Seer, but it's not happening.
I agree with your assessment, Minish, that it seems highly unlikely that the scum are actually inactive. I don't know if I've ever seen a scum team that intentionally didn't kill for 3 nights running, but I've gotta say the psychological impact of this is actually quite devastating. I am constantly unsure of my reads, even those I would usually be very sure are Town.
Post by: Minish on December 16, 2020, 08:55:56 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 08:56:54 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 09:00:03 PM
I mean...if they've tried to hit me either of the past two nights then sucks to be them. Lol. I feel like there are more possibilities than Hapi stopping every kill. Because that would be op.
Another possibility is that they're afraid the noose might tighten too much if any prominent townies actually die, since that would confirm quite a few reads, and the PoE would be rather constricting.
That, and I've intentionally tried to give scum an information overload, so they are just never unsure of who to target.
All of that being said, I don't know how they still haven't gotten at least one kill. It's baffling, to say the least.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 09:01:28 PM
or
*so they are just never sure who to target*
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 09:04:25 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 09:13:48 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 09:17:59 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 16, 2020, 09:21:13 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 16, 2020, 09:30:10 PM
I kinda think we should use this time to discuss a few things amongst ourselves, anyway.
For one, as insane as it sounded, I am actually starting to believe Hapi's odd claim that as long as she lives, no one will die. I think it should have been obvious for the scum who they need to kill in order to finally get to the Seer, but it's not happening.
I agree with your assessment, Minish, that it seems highly unlikely that the scum are actually inactive. I don't know if I've ever seen a scum team that intentionally didn't kill for 3 nights running, but I've gotta say the psychological impact of this is actually quite devastating. I am constantly unsure of my reads, even those I would usually be very sure are Town.
(https://i.ibb.co/kX4M4VY/main-qimg-20aac85fd53ac14895131e81357fb5ba.gif)
I would prefer it if night targets weren't revealed. It does pretty much go against the spirit of the rules, and doesn't quite fit with the game I'm going for, especially if more than one player revealed (which will inevitably happen).
Okies I didn't reveal for this reason. And cause it would prove I'm God or something maybe? :-\
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 10:10:33 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 16, 2020, 10:35:14 PM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 16, 2020, 10:37:13 PM
You have no power here, servant of Morgoth!
Vote: Doc
Post by: Sapphiron on December 16, 2020, 10:39:06 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 16, 2020, 10:43:43 PM
And a self exile probably means this is the last contribution, have fun guys :DI salute your efforts good sir, your work shall not be in vain!
This does raise some doubts of my own on TGN's innocence. @TGN what do you think of this new development?
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 10:46:46 PM
Vote: Doc
Well played, Doc. You had me fooled.
Post by: Vroendal on December 16, 2020, 10:58:55 PM
I don't know Doc's style as well as you, I'm inclined to just trust you on this one and hope he's not making a play by voting for Michi either knowing he was unaligned and somehow a threat to scum or just gunning for a town. Your reasoning regarding him seems based on a lot of experience.I'm curious Doc, did you think Michi was unaligned and a threat to scum? Or were you just going after a suspicious person likely to get voted with superior logic to seem more genuine?
Post by: Wintermoot on December 16, 2020, 11:02:14 PM
Easiest vote so far. :D
Interestingly enough, Doc has listed TGN as his town-core all three times that he posted a list. In his most recent version, he also listed Gerrick, Wischland, and Minnish. I don't know how much stock to put into that...at one time he had Sapphiron as his town-core too.
In the last three days, he voted for Hapi, Michi, and HumanSanity, so I'm not sure that helps much either.
Post by: Laurentus on December 16, 2020, 11:06:14 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 16, 2020, 11:16:03 PM
Vote:Doc
Post by: TGN on December 16, 2020, 11:20:23 PM
Vote: Doc
Post by: Dawsinian on December 16, 2020, 11:25:08 PM
Vote: TGN
Post by: Doc on December 17, 2020, 12:05:16 AM
Tsk tsk, I thought you were going to lynch me so today. Well my contribution happens to be a scum lock, my town lock remains the 2 I mentioned beforeThis is an out-and-out stone-cold lie.
You have no power here, servant of Morgoth!
Vote: Doc
In a bid to avert the tragedy that would result, I shall couch a 'reveal' in as poetic language as I can.
I am a son of Gondor, a scion and servant of the White Tower of Ecthelion, and the only reason I've been largely silent is because there were pressing matters which demanded my attention in Ithilien - which is why my brother was sent to Elrond in the first place, Laurentus.
Mark this; the sons of Numenor have many dreams and true visions, and seek to judge right and justly; hence my temperance and good faith thus far.
But I ask that if my brother were to die before I, if you would prefer our places had been exchanged.
That should be clear enough, I think.
Vote: Sapphiron
Post by: Vroendal on December 17, 2020, 12:12:57 AM
Your defense is basically a "no you!" argument. This is an interesting claim, but why do you think Sapph is lying rather than thinking that perhaps his results were messed with from prediction by scum? It would not be in Sapph's best interest as scum to want to leave even before scanning you, doesn't feel like a scum thing to do. If you flip town, we'll reconsider. What will you say to any possible counter-claim?Tsk tsk, I thought you were going to lynch me so today. Well my contribution happens to be a scum lock, my town lock remains the 2 I mentioned beforeThis is an out-and-out stone-cold lie.
You have no power here, servant of Morgoth!
Vote: Doc
In a bid to avert the tragedy that would result, I shall couch a 'reveal' in as poetic language as I can.
I am a son of Gondor, a scion and servant of the White Tower of Ecthelion, and the only reason I've been largely silent is because there were pressing matters which demanded my attention in Ithilien - which is why my brother was sent to Elrond in the first place, Laurentus.
Mark this; the sons of Numenor have many dreams and true visions, and seek to judge right and justly; hence my temperance and good faith thus far.
But I ask that if my brother were to die before I, if you would prefer our places had been exchanged.
That should be clear enough, I think.
Vote: Sapphiron
Post by: TGN on December 17, 2020, 12:13:08 AM
Well that’s quite the defense for someone whose life hangs in the balance based on the outcome of this vote.that's not defensive, that's a comment. this post, now THIS is defensive but I see that anything else I say won't change your mind.
Vote: TGN
Unvote
Post by: Vroendal on December 17, 2020, 12:15:38 AM
Vote: Doc
Post by: Doc on December 17, 2020, 12:16:24 AM
Actually no wait, Doc wth is that claim? Faramir is already dead. :p Newvit was modkilled....oh, fuck
Vote: Doc
yeah, i fucked up then
EDIT: Yeah, I could try and unfuck things, but at this point that's just too embarrassing and I'd rather hide my head in shame out of what I thought was a brilliant if risky play backfiring so horrifyingly badly.
Post by: Vroendal on December 17, 2020, 12:18:07 AM
Awwww you hate to see it happen. :( You did really well Doc until that claim. The one you wanted to claim would have been Boromir not Faramir.Actually no wait, Doc wth is that claim? Faramir is already dead. :p Newvit was modkilled....oh, fuck
Vote: Doc
yeah, i fucked up then
Post by: TGN on December 17, 2020, 12:19:35 AM
oh... Vote: DocActually no wait, Doc wth is that claim? Faramir is already dead. :p Newvit was modkilled....oh, fuck
Vote: Doc
yeah, i fucked up then
EDIT: Yeah, I could try and unfuck things, but at this point that's just too embarrassing and I'd rather hide my head in shame out of what I thought was a brilliant if risky play backfiring so horrifyingly badly.
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 12:20:41 AM
Anyway, Doc is fucked. Let's spend the rest of the phase interrogating other suspects.
Also question to @Red Mones, do we have death-by-majority?
Post by: Doc on December 17, 2020, 12:23:28 AM
Awwww you hate to see it happen. :( You did really well Doc until that claim. The one you wanted to claim would have been Boromir not Faramir.Eh, Boromir would have been way too much of a longshot, a member of the fellowship was a sure thing.
I've literally had that claim pocketed day 1 because of how easily vague I could be with it, esp with Faramir's 'visions' letting me claim to be Seer-adjacent, but always with some fallibility because he's, y'know, human, not a Magic Elf or Istari.
More fool I for not checking up on what, exactly, the Town Backup was supposed to be (I assumed it was a joke character like Barliman Butterbur or something).
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh i'm so fucking embarrassed right now
Post by: TGN on December 17, 2020, 12:24:30 AM
Doc, just lolcat (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Lolcatting) already. :))That brings up an interesting topic and got me wondering why Among Us imposters have a kill cooldown when in reality they can go on a murder spree? what does this have to do with what you said, idk but I have to eat dinner, see you in a bit
Anyway, Doc is fucked. Let's spend the rest of the phase interrogating other suspects.
Also question to @Red Mones, do we have death-by-majority?
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 12:26:22 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 17, 2020, 12:28:51 AM
Post by: Gerrick on December 17, 2020, 12:36:51 AM
Vote: Doc
Post by: TGN on December 17, 2020, 12:40:52 AM
So @TGN got a defense? ???for what?
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 17, 2020, 12:42:02 AM
Post by: Wischland on December 17, 2020, 12:42:07 AM
Vote: Doc
Post by: TGN on December 17, 2020, 12:44:10 AM
Yourself ::)?
Post by: Wischland on December 17, 2020, 12:48:21 AM
?Doc is scum so you are very likely also scum. Defend yourself and persuade us why you aren't.
Post by: TGN on December 17, 2020, 12:51:30 AM
ok I will?Doc is scum so you are very likely also scum. Defend yourself and persuade us why you aren't.
Don't judge me based on one scum's opinion. maybe he thought I would help him out in the end game. The same argument could be made against Vro because JUST LIKE DOC defended me with all the same reasons. turtle did as well is he sus? we use to sus Vro but now he is ok? now tell me *drops mic*
Post by: Minish on December 17, 2020, 12:52:57 AM
Actually no wait, Doc wth is that claim? Faramir is already dead. :p Newvit was modkilled.
Vote: Doc
I feel like this clears Vro. Or else Doc knew he was caught and this was an elaborate way to give Vro towncred. But eh, I'm willing to town read Vro for this.
Gonna hold off on voting Doc if only because I don't know if y'all lynch on maj and I would like to hunt for a second scum for the day. Though he may already be at maj.
Post by: Vroendal on December 17, 2020, 12:57:32 AM
Post by: Minish on December 17, 2020, 12:59:18 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 17, 2020, 01:00:07 AM
I believe Wisch to be town. Not like super sure on that or anything, but I'd put the others higher on the scum scale.Yeah, I also should have specified my list goes from least to most suspicious.
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 01:00:47 AM
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 17, 2020, 01:29:55 AM
Vote: Doc
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 17, 2020, 01:31:11 AM
Honestly my suspicion currently in order of sus to least sus is
TGN, Wisch, ENE, FE, Willie.
Willing to assume Vro is town now.
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 02:06:12 AM
That said, he's much higher up in my PoE than he was.
Why do you still not like Wisch, Hapi?
Post by: Red Mones on December 17, 2020, 02:28:42 AM
I'll be back in a few. :P
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 17, 2020, 02:51:54 AM
I'm still super paranoid, tbh. The writing was on the wall here, and even with Doc's fake claim, there was likely going to be no stopping this lynch. I'd have sold Doc out without hesitation if I were scum buds with him, to coast on some easy Town cred. I don't doubt that Vro would, either.
That said, he's much higher up in my PoE than he was.
Why do you still not like Wisch, Hapi?
Same thought process I had with Doc and addresses about Wisch earlier.
She's made an attempt to seem helpful without actually being super helpful in my eyes. Her defense there being that she doesn't know us which makes sense I guess *shrugs* but there's been enough play now to formulate an opinion and WW playstyle is more or less universal in my opinion. She has been one of the more active players who like Doc kind of disappeared for a minute there when we were eating each other. And I really don't dig the way she sealed Daws' fate as well as the timing of her Michi vote though I'm still bitter nobody listened to me there.
But the more I think about Doc was INSISTENT for quite some time that Vro v Lau was town v town and now I am almost paranoid one of you two is actually wolf likely Vro and Doc was trying to push public opinion to either protect Vro or less likely give Lau further credibility as another person read him as town. Because AFAIK you've never actually been mechanically cleared either.
Post by: Red Mones on December 17, 2020, 03:07:01 AM
Doc - 11 (Sapphiron, Laurentus, Wintermoot, Hapi, TGN, Vroendal, Gerrick, Wischland, BraveSirRobin)
TGN - 1 (Dawsinian)
Sapphiron - 1 (Doc)
(Yes, the vote count is correct)
Post by: Red Mones on December 17, 2020, 03:33:15 AM
Post by: Red Mones on December 17, 2020, 03:38:30 AM
@Red Mones, are you going to write flavour for this game after it's done? If you're not, then I would love to.Be my guest, dude. I would love it if you did. Flavor/storywriting isn't really my cup of tea, and I never thought to ask @Ruguo if they were interested, though there probably wouldn't have been the time anyway. So yeah, go ahead. Here's the main document (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ) if you're interested in starting now.
Post by: Gerrick on December 17, 2020, 03:41:19 AM
Post by: TGN on December 17, 2020, 04:18:09 AM
... no@Red Mones, are you going to write flavour for this game after it's done? If you're not, then I would love to.Be my guest, dude. I would love it if you did. Flavor/storywriting isn't really my cup of tea, and I never thought to ask @Ruguo if they were interested, though there probably wouldn't have been the time anyway. So yeah, go ahead. Here's the main document (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ) if you're interested in starting now.
you tricked me
Spoiler
DONT YOU DARE EVER AND I MEAN EVER TRY TO PULL THAT AGIAN!!! a few minutes later he did it agian
Post by: Wille-Harlia on December 17, 2020, 04:23:12 AM
Vote: Doc
Post by: Vroendal on December 17, 2020, 04:27:51 AM
Apologies for my inactivity, I have been really busy in real life. I think I should be more active from here on out though. I will make a substantive post later.Hey Wille, nice to see you on. Would you be willing to work on a substantive post for your thoughts right now?
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 17, 2020, 04:41:07 AM
I could do Death-by-majority, but @Eastern New England and @Wille-Harlia need to vote today. I could end now and give them a pass on the inactivity lynch, or keep going and give them a chance to avoid the lynch.
Just end it :))
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 04:58:44 AM
I'm still super paranoid, tbh. The writing was on the wall here, and even with Doc's fake claim, there was likely going to be no stopping this lynch. I'd have sold Doc out without hesitation if I were scum buds with him, to coast on some easy Town cred. I don't doubt that Vro would, either.
That said, he's much higher up in my PoE than he was.
Why do you still not like Wisch, Hapi?
Same thought process I had with Doc and addresses about Wisch earlier.
She's made an attempt to seem helpful without actually being super helpful in my eyes. Her defense there being that she doesn't know us which makes sense I guess *shrugs* but there's been enough play now to formulate an opinion and WW playstyle is more or less universal in my opinion. She has been one of the more active players who like Doc kind of disappeared for a minute there when we were eating each other. And I really don't dig the way she sealed Daws' fate as well as the timing of her Michi vote though I'm still bitter nobody listened to me there.
But the more I think about Doc was INSISTENT for quite some time that Vro v Lau was town v town and now I am almost paranoid one of you two is actually wolf likely Vro and Doc was trying to push public opinion to either protect Vro or less likely give Lau further credibility as another person read him as town. Because AFAIK you've never actually been mechanically cleared either.
And me asking Sapph to scan Doc was... what?
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 17, 2020, 05:15:10 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 05:25:43 AM
Come now Lau would you sell a wolf down the river to save yourself? But I'm more worried about Vro.
Totally, but only when it can no longer be avoided.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 17, 2020, 05:28:04 AM
Come now Lau would you sell a wolf down the river to save yourself? But I'm more worried about Vro.
Totally, but only when it can no longer be avoided.
Your a better scum bud than me :))
Post by: Wille-Harlia on December 17, 2020, 06:11:11 AM
OK, so, besides myself these are my thoughts on those that remain(not going to include Doc, because he has pretty much confessed to being scum). I remain confident that Wischland is town, due to the fact that, at least to me, her playstyle lines up with how she played when she was a town in XKI WW. She has also been pretty active this game. It also looks like ENE is going to be inactivity lynched, but they haven't posted that much so I can't really be sure of their alignment. I also agree with the majority of people in that Sapphiron is town, and furthermore a seer. Flying Eagles also hasn't posted that much to my knowledge, so the thing goes for him as does ENE. Now, I've been busy, so I've really just been scanning most pages due to the sheer amount of activity is more than I'm used to in a WW game. TGN is by my admission new to WW, and I was willing to give him a pass earlier in the game under inexperience, but I feel after playing this game and assuming he's been decently active, which he has been from what pages I have read, he should at least have started to gain experience in this game, which leads me to think that whole thing may now be an act, though I'm not sure. I also haven't seen Wintermoot make that many posts, so I don't have that much insight into his potential alignment either. On Dawsinian, while it's possible that when he was resurrected he could have become a ringwraith type scum, I don't really think that's the case, because I didn't detect any change in playstyle from him after he was resurrected, so I think he is town. My gut also tells me that Lau, BSR, Gerrick, Minish, and Hapi are town, though I can't explain why. I also after further thought, that Vro is likely town. So basically, kind of sus of TGN, but moreso of ENE and FE for not posting a lot up until now (hypocritical, I know, but I think they might have posted less than me. At least with ENE, not sure about FE).
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 06:19:27 AM
I'm still super paranoid, tbh. The writing was on the wall here, and even with Doc's fake claim, there was likely going to be no stopping this lynch. I'd have sold Doc out without hesitation if I were scum buds with him, to coast on some easy Town cred. I don't doubt that Vro would, either.
That said, he's much higher up in my PoE than he was.
Why do you still not like Wisch, Hapi?
Same thought process I had with Doc and addresses about Wisch earlier.
She's made an attempt to seem helpful without actually being super helpful in my eyes. Her defense there being that she doesn't know us which makes sense I guess *shrugs* but there's been enough play now to formulate an opinion and WW playstyle is more or less universal in my opinion. She has been one of the more active players who like Doc kind of disappeared for a minute there when we were eating each other. And I really don't dig the way she sealed Daws' fate as well as the timing of her Michi vote though I'm still bitter nobody listened to me there.
But the more I think about Doc was INSISTENT for quite some time that Vro v Lau was town v town and now I am almost paranoid one of you two is actually wolf likely Vro and Doc was trying to push public opinion to either protect Vro or less likely give Lau further credibility as another person read him as town. Because AFAIK you've never actually been mechanically cleared either.
What does your PoE currently look like?
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 06:22:11 AM
Sure, @Vroendal.
OK, so, besides myself these are my thoughts on those that remain(not going to include Doc, because he has pretty much confessed to being scum). I remain confident that Wischland is town, due to the fact that, at least to me, her playstyle lines up with how she played when she was a town in XKI WW. She has also been pretty active this game. It also looks like ENE is going to be inactivity lynched, but they haven't posted that much so I can't really be sure of their alignment. I also agree with the majority of people in that Sapphiron is town, and furthermore a seer. Flying Eagles also hasn't posted that much to my knowledge, so the thing goes for him as does ENE. Now, I've been busy, so I've really just been scanning most pages due to the sheer amount of activity is more than I'm used to in a WW game. TGN is by my admission new to WW, and I was willing to give him a pass earlier in the game under inexperience, but I feel after playing this game and assuming he's been decently active, which he has been from what pages I have read, he should at least have started to gain experience in this game, which leads me to think that whole thing may now be an act, though I'm not sure. I also haven't seen Wintermoot make that many posts, so I don't have that much insight into his potential alignment either. On Dawsinian, while it's possible that when he was resurrected he could have become a ringwraith type scum, I don't really think that's the case, because I didn't detect any change in playstyle from him after he was resurrected, so I think he is town. My gut also tells me that Lau, BSR, Gerrick, Minish, and Hapi are town, though I can't explain why. I also after further thought, that Vro is likely town. So basically, kind of sus of TGN, but moreso of ENE and FE for not posting a lot up until now (hypocritical, I know, but I think they might have posted less than me. At least with ENE, not sure about FE).
Wintermoot is cleared by Sapph.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 17, 2020, 06:35:47 AM
I'm still super paranoid, tbh. The writing was on the wall here, and even with Doc's fake claim, there was likely going to be no stopping this lynch. I'd have sold Doc out without hesitation if I were scum buds with him, to coast on some easy Town cred. I don't doubt that Vro would, either.
That said, he's much higher up in my PoE than he was.
Why do you still not like Wisch, Hapi?
Same thought process I had with Doc and addresses about Wisch earlier.
She's made an attempt to seem helpful without actually being super helpful in my eyes. Her defense there being that she doesn't know us which makes sense I guess *shrugs* but there's been enough play now to formulate an opinion and WW playstyle is more or less universal in my opinion. She has been one of the more active players who like Doc kind of disappeared for a minute there when we were eating each other. And I really don't dig the way she sealed Daws' fate as well as the timing of her Michi vote though I'm still bitter nobody listened to me there.
But the more I think about Doc was INSISTENT for quite some time that Vro v Lau was town v town and now I am almost paranoid one of you two is actually wolf likely Vro and Doc was trying to push public opinion to either protect Vro or less likely give Lau further credibility as another person read him as town. Because AFAIK you've never actually been mechanically cleared either.
What does your PoE currently look like?
Players remaining: 15/20 4 scum (since nobody thinks Daws got turned)
BraveSirRobin - town
Dawsinian - "confirmed" town
Doc - confirmed scum
Eastern New England - prolly bout to get inactivity lynched so meh
Flying Eagles - sus
Gerrick - legolas
Princess Hapi - me good me god
Laurentus - I'm operating under the assumption town because of Doc
Minish - been operating under assumption if town no reason to suspect elsewise
Sapphiron - seer
The Greenlandic North - scum
Vroendal - sus
Wille-Harlia - no idea
Wintermoot - confirmed town
Wischland - sus
With Doc scum confirmed 3 scum left and really four sus players left. I guess ENE might be sus too but *shrugs*
I'm convinced TGN is scum because they aren't even attempting a defense at this point really. Would Doc have tried convincing the world Vro Lau was Town vs Town to save his scum bud? Dunno but most of the leaders trusted him so maybe it didn't seem risky.
My bet scum is Vro Doc Wisch TGN and MAYBE Daws... yeah not giving that up :))
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 06:38:42 AM
Also, if you think BSR is Town, then I am mechanically cleared. We discussed this already...
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 17, 2020, 08:00:20 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 08:32:25 AM
BraveSirRobin - We're homies, so lock-town.
Dawsinian - Same as BSR
Doc - Scummy McScumface, who is also scum.
Eastern New England
Flying Eagles - PoE, but I'll be straight, my gut reads as Town.
Gerrick - Some mechanical clearance, but not enough to be 100% sure of alignment. Seems townie. Will kill if there's literally no one else left from the PoE
Hapi - Mech clear by Sapph
Minish - Makes no sense for this not to be a mech clear. If scum, then whatever, she deserves the win. 🤷♂️
Sapphiron - I mean
TGN
Vroendal - On reflection, I am probably being paranoid for no reason. The length of time it took for Vro to realise Doc's claim seems natural. If it had been planned, I would have expected the post to come sooner than it did. Will still kill, and likely before Gerrick, if the current PoE doesn't work out, though. Has not been mech cleared by anyone, as far as I know.
Wille-Harlia
Wintermoot - Cleared by Sapph
Wischland - Gut is reading Town, but will lynch if the PoE doesn't work out. I am guessing she's either the tracker or the watcher.
So this is what my PoE looks like:
1. TGN
2. Eastern New England
3. Wille-Harlia
4. Flying Eagles
5. Vroendal
6. Wischland
7. Gerrick
8. Minish
9. Wintermoot
10. Hapi
11. BraveSirRobin
12. Dawsinian
13. Sapphiron
Post by: Eastern New England on December 17, 2020, 08:54:09 AM
Vote: Doc for being confirmed scum.
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 08:55:58 AM
And to Lau, the (fish) soup given to you from who I suppose is Eowyn is from a deleted scene in the movie Lord of the Rings, though I believe it was mentioned in the books.Well, this quote explains some things.
Otherwise, isoing Ogun reveals they were sus of Michi, then Vro.
Guys, I am inclined to Town read Flying Eagles for this.
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 09:02:23 AM
Vote Ogun
Alot of what people have already said, but generally Ogun just gives me weird vibes. Looking back through their posts they are very quiet, mainly only popping up to defend themselves, Vro, and TGN, without making any accusations or providing opinions on other people. Their highly defensive playstyle, especially when so closely focused on a select few players strikes me as suspicious. If Ogun does turn out to be scum, I'd suggest we follow up by lynching TGN and Vro. Otherwise, Ogun has just made some strange comments, for example, voting for Michi without any explained reasoning besides "'my precious' vibes" on D2 while also claiming not to be jumping on the bandwagon. Reading between the lines as if Ogun were scum, this says to me that they know Michi isn't scum and don't really understand all the arguments behind lynching that way, but will go with it because it's a mislynch. Weird stuff, hence the vote.
A side note on Vro, while I do understand the suspicion on Vro, I believe Ogun seems more scummy than Vro does. Vro still gives me townie vibes, and it kinda seems like people have been voting for Vro cause they don't know where else to turn. If Ogun does turn out to be scum, then, for the reasons above, I'll be more open to lynching Vro. But not today.
This post bugs me, but I can't explain why.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 17, 2020, 09:16:23 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Post by: Minish on December 17, 2020, 10:13:39 AM
And to Lau, the (fish) soup given to you from who I suppose is Eowyn is from a deleted scene in the movie Lord of the Rings, though I believe it was mentioned in the books.Well, this quote explains some things.
Otherwise, isoing Ogun reveals they were sus of Michi, then Vro.
Guys, I am inclined to Town read Flying Eagles for this.
Can you explain why?
Also I see you had the same idea about Wisch as I did (didn't wanna quote that whole post). She was softing something along the lines of tracker/watcher the previous day. And the way it happened was in a much more town way. Since it was after Eowyn had already been lynched, so it's not like bringing up an inconsistency then was gonna help get a mislynch. And she was going hard on the fact that something didn't align with her results until suddenly she seemed to realize she had something wrong and dropped it. That seems like an odd scumplay to me, though I can't entirely discount it as scumplay.
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 10:18:04 AM
Also to @Minish:
If you go take a look at the posts there before the Ogun flip, Flying Eagles actually realised a bit sooner than the rest of us that we were lynching an inno, with not terrible reasoning.
Actually, if this whole "TGN is inexperienced" thing is a ruse, and Ogun's cooperating with TGN in scum-chat, then publicly exposing it is either incompetence or an attempt to personally get off the hook.I try to think that I tend to try to be a more careful player, lurking in the shadows and reading people's posts, though that often backfires, like now. Being more willing to accuse someone and then proceed to have your arguments destroyed often makes you more sus. That is probably one of the factors to why TGN is being seen as scum, and the point that he is pretending to be an inexperienced and careless player is interesting to say the least. I think that is also one of my mistakes from not voting in round 1, though I could argue it shows that I try to avoid jumping the bandwagon.Isn't TGN actually inexperienced and not pretending to be inexperienced?
If neither of those scenarios are believable, we likely have to assume Ogun's not a wolf.
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 10:19:18 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 10:28:56 AM
And to Lau, the (fish) soup given to you from who I suppose is Eowyn is from a deleted scene in the movie Lord of the Rings, though I believe it was mentioned in the books.Well, this quote explains some things.
Otherwise, isoing Ogun reveals they were sus of Michi, then Vro.
Guys, I am inclined to Town read Flying Eagles for this.
Can you explain why?
Also I see you had the same idea about Wisch as I did (didn't wanna quote that whole post). She was softing something along the lines of tracker/watcher the previous day. And the way it happened was in a much more town way. Since it was after Eowyn had already been lynched, so it's not like bringing up an inconsistency then was gonna help get a mislynch. And she was going hard on the fact that something didn't align with her results until suddenly she seemed to realize she had something wrong and dropped it. That seems like an odd scumplay to me, though I can't entirely discount it as scumplay.
Yeah, I see your point. It changes little to my PoE, though.
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 10:46:16 AM
TGN
Eastern New England
Wille-Harlia
Flying Eagles
Vroendal
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 11:28:37 AM
Actually no wait, Doc wth is that claim? Faramir is already dead. :p Newvit was modkilled.
Vote: Doc
Tsk tsk, I thought you were going to lynch me so today. Well my contribution happens to be a scum lock, my town lock remains the 2 I mentioned beforeThis is an out-and-out stone-cold lie.
You have no power here, servant of Morgoth!
Vote: Doc
In a bid to avert the tragedy that would result, I shall couch a 'reveal' in as poetic language as I can.
I am a son of Gondor, a scion and servant of the White Tower of Ecthelion, and the only reason I've been largely silent is because there were pressing matters which demanded my attention in Ithilien - which is why my brother was sent to Elrond in the first place, Laurentus.
Mark this; the sons of Numenor have many dreams and true visions, and seek to judge right and justly; hence my temperance and good faith thus far.
But I ask that if my brother were to die before I, if you would prefer our places had been exchanged.
That should be clear enough, I think.
Vote: Sapphiron
Your defense is basically a "no you!" argument. This is an interesting claim, but why do you think Sapph is lying rather than thinking that perhaps his results were messed with from prediction by scum? It would not be in Sapph's best interest as scum to want to leave even before scanning you, doesn't feel like a scum thing to do. If you flip town, we'll reconsider. What will you say to any possible counter-claim?Tsk tsk, I thought you were going to lynch me so today. Well my contribution happens to be a scum lock, my town lock remains the 2 I mentioned beforeThis is an out-and-out stone-cold lie.
You have no power here, servant of Morgoth!
Vote: Doc
In a bid to avert the tragedy that would result, I shall couch a 'reveal' in as poetic language as I can.
I am a son of Gondor, a scion and servant of the White Tower of Ecthelion, and the only reason I've been largely silent is because there were pressing matters which demanded my attention in Ithilien - which is why my brother was sent to Elrond in the first place, Laurentus.
Mark this; the sons of Numenor have many dreams and true visions, and seek to judge right and justly; hence my temperance and good faith thus far.
But I ask that if my brother were to die before I, if you would prefer our places had been exchanged.
That should be clear enough, I think.
Vote: Sapphiron
Yeah, actually, the timing here removes a lot of my doubt. I still can't figure out who to have higher up in my PoE, though: Vro or Wisch?
Post by: Minish on December 17, 2020, 01:47:57 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 01:52:18 PM
@Laurentus I see what you mean now but I'm not inclined to townread him for that. Could have been the advantage of scum having more info (knowing ogun was town) and trying to get a bit of towncred by being hesitant about the lynch. I've certainly done some similar things as scum.
Yeah, thought something similar upon first read-through, but that's a very good reason not to find Ogun scummy, though.
Coincidentally, what's your PoE looking like?
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 01:54:25 PM
Post by: Minish on December 17, 2020, 02:13:24 PM
I'm confident in calling it here: scum rests within the following slots. I cannot see a different world anymore:
TGN
Eastern New England
Wille-Harlia
Flying Eagles
Vroendal
My PoE is basically this with Vro removed (at least for now). I wanted to go with Ogun the previous day because Vro seemed to want to lynch them least out of my 3 person PoE at the time. So I figured if Vro were scum ogun might be scum with him, and decided to not follow who he wanted to lynch.
The thing that does make me hesitant about Vro is still that d2 vote. I don't see why so many votes on Michi if Vro is town. Maybe scum just thought Michi was an easier vote to pass off. But both seem like strong players so wanting to get rid of one over the other for something like that doesn't make sense. Especially since you seemingly have all town (and Michi) on Vro's wagon.
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 02:17:57 PM
I'm confident in calling it here: scum rests within the following slots. I cannot see a different world anymore:
TGN
Eastern New England
Wille-Harlia
Flying Eagles
Vroendal
My PoE is basically this with Vro removed (at least for now). I wanted to go with Ogun the previous day because Vro seemed to want to lynch them least out of my 3 person PoE at the time. So I figured if Vro were scum ogun might be scum with him, and decided to not follow who he wanted to lynch.
The thing that does make me hesitant about Vro is still that d2 vote. I don't see why so many votes on Michi if Vro is town. Maybe scum just thought Michi was an easier vote to pass off. But both seem like strong players so wanting to get rid of one over the other for something like that doesn't make sense. Especially since you seemingly have all town (and Michi) on Vro's wagon.
That, and the Vro wagon typically gets a lot more resistance. All other wagons have people piling up damn fast.
It could just be a timing thing, but yeah.
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 02:44:58 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 02:46:11 PM
Post by: TGN on December 17, 2020, 04:21:06 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 17, 2020, 06:27:57 PM
@Laurentus, I edited your post.
@Sapphiron do you plan on leaving at the end of this phase?
Post by: Minish on December 17, 2020, 07:03:34 PM
Unnecessary at this point but wanted to get my vote in.
Post by: Red Mones on December 17, 2020, 08:01:05 PM
The final vote count was:
Doc - 14 (Sapphiron, Laurentus, Wintermoot, Hapi, TGN, Vroendal, Gerrick, Wischland, BraveSirRobin, Wille-Harlia, Eastern New England, Minish)
TGN - 1 (Dawsinian)
Sapphiron - 1 (Doc)
This is the end of Day 4, and the beginning of Night 4. Please send me your night actions! Phase ends in 24 hours on Friday, the 18th, at 12 PM PST.
Post by: Laurentus on December 17, 2020, 08:39:37 PM
Since the two players made their votes, I’ll end this day phase at 12 to keep my current schedule going.
@Laurentus, I edited your post.
@Sapphiron do you plan on leaving at the end of this phase?
Awesome, thanks Red.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 17, 2020, 08:51:51 PM
Post by: TGN on December 17, 2020, 09:36:57 PM
InterestingNOPE EDIT SORRY, INAPRROPREATE
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 17, 2020, 09:51:53 PM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 17, 2020, 11:57:56 PM
@Sapphiron do you plan on leaving at the end of this phase?I mean I don’t intend to be contributing anymore as part of self exile - which includes not using my day vote or my night skill - so I was thinking I will just let myself get inactivity lynched in 2 days rather than modkill which you didn’t want to do
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 18, 2020, 12:46:36 AM
InterestingNOPE EDIT SORRY, INAPRROPREATE
:o what did this say lol
Post by: TGN on December 18, 2020, 01:02:33 AM
somethingInterestingNOPE EDIT SORRY, INAPRROPREATE
:o what did this say lol
it was a bad, bad, BAD joke
Post by: Wischland on December 18, 2020, 01:34:55 AM
@Wischland, how many games of Werewolf has Flying Eagles played, and is that type of play typically in his range?Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I drove 10 hours today to go pick up my sister for the holidays so I'm only now checking the thread. Driving back tomorrow so expect very minimal responses from me until Saturday. Stuck on mobile too. Anyway, I believe FE has played one and a half (MIA host) games. So he's still pretty new at WW. Because I have so little data about him I'm hesitant to say whether it is or isn't in his range, though I'd cautiously say it is, because he is a very quick learner.
Post by: Red Mones on December 18, 2020, 09:58:45 PM
This is the end of Night 4, and the beginning of Day 5. Phase ends in 46 hours on Sunday, the 20th, at 12 PM PST.
Post by: Laurentus on December 18, 2020, 10:44:33 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 18, 2020, 10:46:03 PM
Vote: TGN
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 18, 2020, 10:56:07 PM
Vote: TGN
This is basically guaranteed though
Post by: Minish on December 18, 2020, 10:56:43 PM
Bit of an odd nk choice. Considering there seem to be bigger threats role wise. Guess they were trying to get in a kill not stopped by anything.
Post by: Vroendal on December 18, 2020, 10:57:04 PM
I should also mention that I have successfully used my one-shot, unfortunately it didn't give me anything helpful. So if you want to lynch me now go for it.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 18, 2020, 11:07:29 PM
Should be obvious why
Post by: TGN on December 18, 2020, 11:30:46 PM
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 19, 2020, 04:24:25 AM
Well that was rude. Carry on Lau I trust you to win this!
Post by: Laurentus on December 19, 2020, 08:15:14 AM
Post by: Wintermoot on December 19, 2020, 06:32:25 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 19, 2020, 07:30:35 PM
Post by: Wischland on December 19, 2020, 08:54:11 PM
Because of the reasons everyone else has given. I don't really see the need to repeat them.
Post by: Wintermoot on December 19, 2020, 09:12:10 PM
Vote: TGN
Post by: Laurentus on December 19, 2020, 09:41:52 PM
That said, yeah, I'm starting the PoE off with TGN because of Doc's impassioned defence of him.
Post by: TGN on December 19, 2020, 10:00:38 PM
Vote: TGN
Post by: Laurentus on December 19, 2020, 10:06:56 PM
Post by: Eastern New England on December 19, 2020, 10:15:20 PM
Seems like a good point to start the process of elimination at and also the vote on him makes it even clearer.
Post by: Laurentus on December 19, 2020, 10:18:01 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 19, 2020, 11:13:21 PM
Interesting that everyone seems to be voting for him. If he's a wolf, they seem to have abandoned him.
Vote: TGN
Which is exactly what they should do in this situation
Post by: Dawsinian on December 19, 2020, 11:54:10 PM
Vote: Greenlandic North
Post by: TGN on December 20, 2020, 12:11:10 AM
See my last vote.it would be The Greenlandic North or TGN ( I PREFER TGN)
Vote: Greenlandic North
twas what I didInteresting that everyone seems to be voting for him. If he's a wolf, they seem to have abandoned him.
Vote: TGN
Which is exactly what they should do in this situation
Post by: Gerrick on December 20, 2020, 04:42:39 PM
Vote: TGN
Post by: Red Mones on December 20, 2020, 08:26:34 PM
The final vote count was:
TGN - 9 (Laurentus, Hapi, Vroendal, Flying Eagles, Wischland, Wintermoot, Eastern New England, Dawsinian, Gerrick)
This is the end of Day 5, and the beginning of Night 5. Please send me your night actions! Phase ends in 24 hours on Monday, the 21st, at 12 PM PST.
Post by: Laurentus on December 20, 2020, 10:46:05 PM
Well played, TGN.
Post by: Laurentus on December 20, 2020, 10:46:58 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 20, 2020, 10:49:25 PM
Post by: Vroendal on December 21, 2020, 12:03:41 AM
Nailed it. :))Yeah you did well, I was fooled. :p His playstyle matched so closely to what I would expect from him even as town that I discounted him for the most part, that won't happen again. :3
Well played, TGN.
Post by: Red Mones on December 21, 2020, 12:31:27 AM
Also, @Red Mones, I think you counted Wisch twice.Yup, got confused. The second Wisch is meant to be Dawsinian.
Post by: TGN on December 21, 2020, 02:11:11 AM
Nailed it. :))bearley I mean thanks. I swear no one was telling me to act new or inexperienced so you got lucky.
Well played, TGN.
but now I'm dead, good luck. AVENGE ME
Post by: Ogun of Valeria on December 21, 2020, 03:11:10 AM
A cold wind breezes through the town
I forgive you for killing me, it happens I guess, but good job everyone for getting the wolves, seems that TGN tricked me too! Keep it up, the afterlife isn't fun!
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 21, 2020, 03:17:17 AM
Post by: Michi on December 21, 2020, 03:28:59 AM
Aren’t dead people generally not allowed to post?Dead
Generally a goodbye post only so as not to clog up the thread, and occasionally a post like this to explain when asked.
Falls back into his grave.
Post by: Red Mones on December 21, 2020, 08:09:56 PM
This is the end of Night 5, and the beginning of Day 6. Phase ends in 48 hours on Wednesday, the 23st, at 12 PM PST.
Post by: Red Mones on December 21, 2020, 08:15:09 PM
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 21, 2020, 08:24:40 PM
Post by: Laurentus on December 21, 2020, 08:31:19 PM
Best of luck, town, and well played, Wolfies.
I told y'all I never survive. :))
Post by: Vroendal on December 21, 2020, 09:01:43 PM
I see no need not to continue with the established PoE. We still have -
Flying
Wille
ENE
Myself
Wisch
In light of the fact that Wille may be modkilled anyway, I'll start off a vote on
Vote: Flying
if only to eliminate one more possibility.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 21, 2020, 09:07:23 PM
Honestly that sucks that Lau died
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 21, 2020, 09:15:04 PM
Post by: Gerrick on December 22, 2020, 01:43:02 AM
My PoE:
1. Eastern New England
2. Flying Eagles
3. Wille-Harlia
4. Wischland
5. Vroendal
6. Minish
The rest are Town Lock.
Because he already has a vote and is in my top two (and we have two scum left),
Vote: Flying Eagles
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 22, 2020, 02:23:33 AM
Another possibility could be that W-H and Wisch are working in concert to duplicate their townie play styles. Then again, this probably could be said for any possible combo of wolves.
Post by: Wille-Harlia on December 22, 2020, 10:50:52 PM
Post by: Red Mones on December 22, 2020, 11:00:34 PM
Flying Eagles - 3 (Vroendal, Gerrick, Wille-Harlia)
Wischland - 1 (Hapi)
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 22, 2020, 11:58:32 PM
Well. We’ve established Wisch’s play-style is likely townie. W-H was probably the first to point that out, and is probably getting lynched anyways. ENE then becomes the first name on PoE lists that I can’t find reason to not lynch, so the scums might be them and Vro.Vote: Eastern New England
Another possibility could be that W-H and Wisch are working in concert to duplicate their townie play styles. Then again, this probably could be said for any possible combo of wolves.
Post by: Eastern New England on December 23, 2020, 03:27:10 PM
Vote: Flying Eagles
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 23, 2020, 03:29:24 PM
Sorry for making you lot waste a kill on me.
Post by: Wintermoot on December 23, 2020, 04:06:49 PM
Vote: Flying Eagles
Post by: Wischland on December 23, 2020, 05:42:43 PM
Following the PoE and arguments provided by everyone else.
Post by: Red Mones on December 23, 2020, 08:01:03 PM
Minish (Frodo) was lynched for inactivity. (They requested to leave)
Sapphiron (Galadriel), the "Seer" was lynched for inactivity.
The final vote count was:
Flying Eagles - 6 (Vroendal, Gerrick, Wille-Harlia, Eastern New England, Wintermoot, Wischland)
Wischland - 1 (Hapi)
Eastern New England - 1 (Flying Eagles)
This is the end of Day 6, and the beginning of Night 6. Phase ends in 24 hours on Thursday, the 24th, at 12 PM PST.
Post by: Laurentus on December 23, 2020, 10:06:31 PM
Aw. I was hoping Boromir would survive for my flavour. :(
Post by: Gerrick on December 23, 2020, 10:57:26 PM
Good news is that we have a 50/50 chance to kill wolves now as two of the following four are wolves:
@Eastern New England
@Vroendal
@Wille-Harlia
@Wischland
How would you four rank the others from most to least suspicious?
Post by: Vroendal on December 23, 2020, 11:05:12 PM
Damn, sorry Flying Eagles. :(
Good news is that we have a 50/50 chance to kill wolves now as two of the following four are wolves:
@Eastern New England
@Vroendal
@Wille-Harlia
@Wischland
How would you four rank the others from most to least suspicious?
From most to least, Wille, myself, ENE, Wisch.
Personally I still find Wille's playstyle to be the most suspicious starting from when he didn't even comment on you, Gerrick voting him at all, and added with the statistical possibility I would be surprised to find that he's town.
ENE had a couple posts that were logical but I didn't feel added much to the whole scheme of things, I would put them as the last wolf.
If Wisch is a wolf she has played a fantastic posting game, well done, I've been reading her as town since basically the beginning.
I've made errors to be sure that compromises my likelihood to be town, but all-in-all I would read the way I've played as townie.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 23, 2020, 11:24:54 PM
Vro
ENE
Willie
:o
Post by: Wischland on December 24, 2020, 12:04:04 AM
Less posting then I'd normally expect from him.
ENE - Very minimal posting. I think it's ENE because I don't think it's Vro basically.
Vro - Far too helpful to be scum.
Me - I know I'm town, obviously. @Hapi why are you suspicious of me? The same argument you made before or is there something else now?
Post by: Wischland on December 24, 2020, 12:05:06 AM
Post by: Red Mones on December 24, 2020, 08:16:03 PM
This is the end of Night 6, and the beginning of Day 7. Phase ends in 48 hours on Saturday, the 26th, at 12 PM PST.
Post by: Vroendal on December 24, 2020, 09:10:35 PM
I'm going to get the ball rolling with a vote on:
Vote: ENE
You've had more to say than Wille, but haven't defended yourself for a while and you're high up on my PoE list, so why shouldn't I be voting you? Who do you think it is?
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 24, 2020, 10:16:27 PM
Vote: Willie
Post by: Gerrick on December 24, 2020, 11:06:44 PM
Vote: Eastern New England
Post by: Eastern New England on December 25, 2020, 11:26:08 AM
Damn, sorry Flying Eagles. :(- W-H: W-H hasn't had much to say this far and working with the PoE, they seem likely wolf.
Good news is that we have a 50/50 chance to kill wolves now as two of the following four are wolves:
@Eastern New England
@Vroendal
@Wille-Harlia
@Wischland
How would you four rank the others from most to least suspicious?
- Wisch: I've never played with a "wolf Wisch", but the one time I played Spyfall with her, she was Spy (equivalent to wolf) and the only person who wasn't sussed at all. The Spies ended up winning that game, so I wouldn't put it past Wisch to seem very towny and still be wolf.
- Vro: Vro seems helpful and I doubt that they are wolf.
- ENE: I know I'm town.
Alrightie, I see they went for the safe choice to kill wherein we don't get any new information.You have no reason not to vote me, I can't deny that. I still think it's likely Wisch & W-H (refer to above for reasoning), but it's up to you to decide.
I'm going to get the ball rolling with a vote on:
Vote: ENE
You've had more to say than Wille, but haven't defended yourself for a while and you're high up on my PoE list, so why shouldn't I be voting you? Who do you think it is?
Post by: Wischland on December 25, 2020, 06:52:39 PM
One of the two people I think are our wolves.
Post by: Eastern New England on December 26, 2020, 02:50:55 PM
Vote: Wille-Harlia
They are most likely wolf from PoE.
Post by: Wintermoot on December 26, 2020, 06:55:45 PM
Interesting that Vro, Gerrick, and Wischland feel strongly about voting for ENE, to the point that Vro started this and Gerrick and Wischland have outright said they think they're a wolf. I don't know what happened to give them such confidence...to me it feels like overconfidence. I think I feel more comfortable voting with Hapi on this one, given that I don't have to question her motivations.
Related, was Gerrick mechanically cleared for sure? I remember Laurentus thinking he was town but not being 100% sure.
Post by: Wischland on December 26, 2020, 09:14:07 PM
Interesting that Vro, Gerrick, and Wischland feel strongly about voting for ENE, to the point that Vro started this and Gerrick and Wischland have outright said they think they're a wolf. I don't know what happened to give them such confidence...to me it feels like overconfidence. I think I feel more comfortable voting with Hapi on this one, given that I don't have to question her motivations.Can't speak for Vro or Gerrick, but I think WH and ENE are the wolves, so I really have no preference as to who gets lynched first between the two. I just went with ENE cause at the time that's who most people had voted for.
Post by: Red Mones on December 26, 2020, 09:36:07 PM
The final vote count was:
Wille-Harlia - 3 (Hapi, Eastern New England, Wintermoot) chosen by RNG.
Eastern New England - 3 (Vroendal, Gerrick, Wischland)
This is the end of Day 7, and the beginning of Night 7. Please send me your night actions! Phase ends in 22 hours on Sunday, the 27th, at 12 PM PST.
Post by: Vroendal on December 26, 2020, 09:51:03 PM
Interesting that Vro, Gerrick, and Wischland feel strongly about voting for ENE, to the point that Vro started this and Gerrick and Wischland have outright said they think they're a wolf. I don't know what happened to give them such confidence...to me it feels like overconfidence. I think I feel more comfortable voting with Hapi on this one, given that I don't have to question her motivations.While I saw it as the most likely possibility that both Wille and ENE were wolves, I chose to vote ENE to see if their defense would give me any reason to think it's Wisch on the off-chance that I have been fooled this whole time, it did not. Also, it was the most poetic for me after hounding Wille for most of the game to lynch him last, but whatever. :p
Post by: Red Mones on December 27, 2020, 08:10:19 PM
Eastern New England (Sauron), the "Godfather" was killed during the night.
This is the end of Night 7, and with all four of Sauron's Forces dead that means…
THE FELLOWSHIP WINS!
Mentions
More info will be posted later.
Post by: Gerrick on December 27, 2020, 08:37:25 PM
Looking forward to the write-up. Thanks for hosting, Red!
Post by: Laurentus on December 27, 2020, 09:15:47 PM
I would love a breakdown of everyone's night actions.
In case it wasn't blatantly clear by now, I protected Gerrick N1, and that's why I was fairly confident of his town status.
When Hapi asked me to trust her and not lynch Michi, her insistence that Gerrick was a Wolf made me at first wonder whether she was a Seer with some sort of tie to Pengu (or maybe she used a ring ability to scan two people N1), and that's why I was willing to lynch Gerrick anyway @Wintermoot. I later came to the conclusion that Hapi was either the defender, or Smeagol, and had either protected Pengu and was thus as sure of Pengu's Town status as I was of Gerrick, or would just say and do anything to keep Pengu alive due to some shared win condition. That's why I moved off Gerrick in the end.
For Sapphiron, I felt like I'd been played the whole time when it came out that HumanSanity was the Seer. I have never played a game with two Seers, so every instinct I had went into overdrive with Sapph. When I realised Sapph was telling the truth, I still wanted to lynch him simply because I deemed it the honourable thing to do, as he did insist we lynch him anyway. I don't always care about winning. I know it's not rational, but it is what it is.
And yeah, I rezzed Daws N1. That's why I was super paranoid when y'all kept sussing him.
That all said, very well played to our scum team.
Not that it matters much either, but wouldn't Gerrick's kill have been stopped since the final Wolf got vigged, Red Mones?
Post by: Wintermoot on December 27, 2020, 09:18:47 PM
This was a great game...congratulations and great job on creating and hosting it, @Red Mones. :)
Post by: Gerrick on December 27, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
Post by: Wischland on December 28, 2020, 12:11:46 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 28, 2020, 12:41:49 AM
Also, I'm going to need to know everyone's night actions to write the flavour.
Post by: Vroendal on December 28, 2020, 12:43:34 AM
Thank you so much for making this Red, and all those who worked on this, it was a blast! ^-^
Post by: Sapphiron on December 28, 2020, 12:58:05 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 28, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 28, 2020, 01:11:31 AM
@Vroendal, while you're here, what made you so sure Willie was a Wolf? I only arrived at that conclusion by a long, drawn-out process of elimination in which I gathered a lot of town reads and was just forced to come to that conclusion based on how Townie everyone else was, not based on anything that Willie did.Well, when I first started accusing him I wasn't sure he was a wolf at all, I just wanted to gather reads and he was one of the few players I had almost no reads on because he hadn't spoken a lot. But as I kept hounding him and he still didn't reply, it started making me think that he was keeping himself on the down-low by not responding and letting all the heat go to me or others. Then that made me realize that he also never responded when Gerrick voted him. This lack of response could either point to disengagement or intentional lurking, the latter of which didn't strike me as a particularly townie play when you're being voted. I also saw from his profile while I was checking his ISO's that he was active on the forum even though he wasn't talking in the thread. Whether that was an intentional play or not, I don't know. As the game went on, I had gathered what I felt to be enough behavioral information to form teams and make susses in my own head, and he was never really eliminated from any of them as more and more players were cleared. I talked big, but that was more to try and get people to also jump on my wagon which would have hopefully encouraged him to speak. My plays never worked, but the way the thread was going it just felt like the wolves were lurking, and Wille just fit as one basically.
Post by: Red Mones on December 28, 2020, 01:16:45 AM
Huge shout out to @Ruguo for co-hosting this game with me. This game would not have happened at all if it weren't for them, and I'm very grateful for their help.
Shout out to our allies from 10,000 Islands, @HumanSanity, @Wille-Harlia, @Wischland, @Eastern New England, and @Flying Eagles for joining us. It was a blast having you guys join in and I can't wait to participate over at XKI!
Also a shout out to @Minish for subbing in, and shout out to the cabinet, especially @Wintermoot and @Michi for supporting and encouraging me to host this game.
And of course, big thank you to everyone else who participated. This was a new experience and I absolutely loved it! :D
Asked people over at MU how a vig and Wolf targeting each other gets resolved, and it turns out you handled it exactly the right way, Red.Yeah, I was wondering what I should do about it. The Godfather gets defense from night attacks until all the other wolves have died, so by the time Gerrick attempted the kill, ENE no longer had it. I would've asked Silv about it, but it was about 15 minutes before end of night, and they weren't online at the time. I thought about using the submitted time as the deciding factor (Gerrick sent their actions first, so their kill would go through and not ENE's) but I decided that would be unfair, since people live in different time zones and have different schedules and lives, and that shouldn't be the deciding factor. So I settled on both dying. I'm glad to hear that's technically the correct way to do it. :P
Also, I'm going to need to know everyone's night actions to write the flavour.
Here are the night actions copy-pasted from my document:
Night 1-7 actions
N1 actions:
Wisch: Watch Vroendal
Hapi: Defend Michi
BSR: Ring of Clues on Laurentus
Wolves - Kill Gerrick (TGN kills)
Laurentus: Heal Gerrick (OVERRIDES WOLF KILL), Ring of Resurrection on Dawsinian
Michi - Scan Laurentus
Sapph/HumanSanity - Scan Laurentus/Hapi. RNG chooses Hapi.
N2 actions:
Dawsinian: Roleblock Laurentus (OVERRIDES HEAL SAPPHIRON)
Laurentus: Heal Sapphiron
Wischland: Watch Laurentus
Hapi: Defend Laurentus, defend self with Ring of the Dead
Wolves: Kill Minish (TGN kills)
Ogunbiyi: Give soup to Laurentus
Minish: Use Ring (OVERRIDES WOLF KILL)
Sapph/HumanSanity: Scan Wintermoot
N3 actions:
Vroendal: Use Ring of the Forest
Dawsinian: Roleblock Vroendal
Wille-Harlia: Ring of Deceit on Wischland (BLOCKS WATCH SAPPHIRON)
Laurentus: Heal Sapphiron
Doc: Go on alert
Sapphiron: Scan Doc, Reverse time for Hapi
Wischland: Watch Sapphiron
Eastern New England: Use Ring of Omniscience on Laurentus
Wolves: Kill Minish (Doc kills)
Hapi: Defend Minish (OVERRIDES WOLF KILL)
Minish: Use Ring (OVERRIDES WOLF KILL)
N4 actions:
TGN: Poison Minish
Flying Eagles: Use Ring of Whispers
Hapi: Defend Laurentus, use Ring of the Dead
Laurentus: Sapphiron
Wischland: Watch TGN
Wolves: Kill BSR (ENE kills)
N5 actions:
Laurentus: Heal Hapi
Hapi: Defend Gerrick
Wolves: Kill Laurentus (ENE kills)
Wischland: Watch Hapi
Gerrick: Use Ring of Agility
N6 actions:
Wolves: Kill Dawsinian (ENE kills)
Wischland: Watch Wille-Harlia
Hapi: Defend Wintermoot
N7 actions:
Wischland: Watch Gerrick
Gerrick: Kill ENE
Hapi: Defend Vroendal
Wolves: Kill Gerrick (ENE kills)
Wisch: Watch Vroendal
Hapi: Defend Michi
BSR: Ring of Clues on Laurentus
Wolves - Kill Gerrick (TGN kills)
Laurentus: Heal Gerrick (OVERRIDES WOLF KILL), Ring of Resurrection on Dawsinian
Michi - Scan Laurentus
Sapph/HumanSanity - Scan Laurentus/Hapi. RNG chooses Hapi.
N2 actions:
Dawsinian: Roleblock Laurentus (OVERRIDES HEAL SAPPHIRON)
Laurentus: Heal Sapphiron
Wischland: Watch Laurentus
Hapi: Defend Laurentus, defend self with Ring of the Dead
Wolves: Kill Minish (TGN kills)
Ogunbiyi: Give soup to Laurentus
Minish: Use Ring (OVERRIDES WOLF KILL)
Sapph/HumanSanity: Scan Wintermoot
N3 actions:
Vroendal: Use Ring of the Forest
Dawsinian: Roleblock Vroendal
Wille-Harlia: Ring of Deceit on Wischland (BLOCKS WATCH SAPPHIRON)
Laurentus: Heal Sapphiron
Doc: Go on alert
Sapphiron: Scan Doc, Reverse time for Hapi
Wischland: Watch Sapphiron
Eastern New England: Use Ring of Omniscience on Laurentus
Wolves: Kill Minish (Doc kills)
Hapi: Defend Minish (OVERRIDES WOLF KILL)
Minish: Use Ring (OVERRIDES WOLF KILL)
N4 actions:
TGN: Poison Minish
Flying Eagles: Use Ring of Whispers
Hapi: Defend Laurentus, use Ring of the Dead
Laurentus: Sapphiron
Wischland: Watch TGN
Wolves: Kill BSR (ENE kills)
N5 actions:
Laurentus: Heal Hapi
Hapi: Defend Gerrick
Wolves: Kill Laurentus (ENE kills)
Wischland: Watch Hapi
Gerrick: Use Ring of Agility
N6 actions:
Wolves: Kill Dawsinian (ENE kills)
Wischland: Watch Wille-Harlia
Hapi: Defend Wintermoot
N7 actions:
Wischland: Watch Gerrick
Gerrick: Kill ENE
Hapi: Defend Vroendal
Wolves: Kill Gerrick (ENE kills)
Post by: Red Mones on December 28, 2020, 01:18:39 AM
Post by: Ruguo on December 28, 2020, 01:28:44 AM
To Vro, I was really hoping you'd die because you had one of my all time favourite chaos roles I've ever gotten in a game.
Post by: Red Mones on December 28, 2020, 01:30:27 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 28, 2020, 01:32:12 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 28, 2020, 01:33:02 AM
Post by: Vroendal on December 28, 2020, 01:33:26 AM
This game was thrilling to watch, and I'm glad I got to be part of it.Yeahhh, I was hoping I'd die too just to try it out, it just didn't feel right to be lynched and then the wolves never chose me for a night kill. >.<
To Vro, I was really hoping you'd die because you had one of my all time favourite chaos roles I've ever gotten in a game.
I've played a game with a Tree Stump role before, so I had a little experience with it and I tried to fit the way I played around it, it was quite fun for the most part. :)
Post by: Laurentus on December 28, 2020, 01:35:34 AM
This game was thrilling to watch, and I'm glad I got to be part of it.Yeahhh, I was hoping I'd die too just to try it out, it just didn't feel right to be lynched and then the wolves never chose me for a night kill. >.<
To Vro, I was really hoping you'd die because you had one of my all time favourite chaos roles I've ever gotten in a game.
I've played a game with a Tree Stump role before, so I had a little experience with it and I tried to fit the way I played around it, it was quite fun for the most part. :)
I was honestly blowing a bunch of smoke when I guessed you were the Loudmouth, hoping they'd never try to kill you. I had no idea if you actually were the loudmouth or not.
Post by: Laurentus on December 28, 2020, 01:38:06 AM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 28, 2020, 01:40:32 AM
Post by: Sapphiron on December 28, 2020, 01:46:52 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 28, 2020, 01:49:35 AM
Post by: TGN on December 28, 2020, 02:09:59 AM
Post by: Laurentus on December 28, 2020, 04:01:06 AM
The shapeshifting route would also require me to create new characters, or maybe just use ones not featured in the story. Either way, expect the tone of my flavour to be quite a bit darker than LotR proper.
I am also going to let it start off pretty much from the Council of Elrond. I see no reason to rehash everything in the books/movies up to that point.
Post by: Gerrick on December 28, 2020, 04:43:10 AM
Post by: Doc on December 28, 2020, 01:03:37 PM
As for the Ringwraith - who I demanded be acknowledged as the Witch-King of Angmar, which was accepted by Mones - no such easy tricks, but I suppose if you were going for a darker and less lore-consistent tone anyway, you could always steal liberally from Shadow of Mordor and just have him be Talion instead, who at least looks mostly normal.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 28, 2020, 04:34:33 PM
Hapi, I was trying my luck with the ring of time to give you an additional ring ability :))
I was really hoping they'd attack me lol.
Post by: Laurentus on December 28, 2020, 05:52:39 PM
As it is, I'm wondering if I can dispense with shape-shifting and stuff, and just have Sauron exert some level of mind-control over the Fellowship through their rings. I feel like there is some level of precedence for this with Saruman's control over Theoden.
Post by: Eastern New England on December 28, 2020, 05:53:41 PM
Post by: Wintermoot on December 28, 2020, 06:57:28 PM
I hope that you had fun playing Werewolf, and would like to join us again for more games in the future! If you would like us to let you know when we're having new Werewolf games in the future, just post here and let us know how we can best contact you. We can contact you here on Wintreath, or through our network of ambassadors and representatives if you're usually elsewhere.
Again, thanks again for joining us and for making this such an awesome game. :)
To
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 28, 2020, 08:06:26 PM
Post by: Michi on December 28, 2020, 09:00:05 PM
If I found them and they were attacked, I would have defended and basically died for them, but still met my win condition regardless.
Post by: Red Mones on December 28, 2020, 10:39:12 PM
The Ringwraith had the ability to kill Frodo and anyone connected to them if they used their ring ability on the same night Frodo used the One Ring. So Doc had the chance of killing Frodo, Sam, and Gollum in one shot.
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 29, 2020, 01:19:11 AM
I mainly took a guess on Gerrick being mafia cause I wanted the mafia to attack me since I had already decided to use my ring that night. I figured if I could sow enough doubt about how powerful I was and why nobody was dying it would lead the wolves to maybe make an attack on me. And I figured correctly wagoning a wolf to their demise would further solidify how "broken" I was. But I quickly realized Gerrick was not a wolf and so that play failed.
I took a chance on Michi because I thought if I saved him and he was mafia they'd attack me maybe since it would be less sus or even if I didn't and my play made him look more sus and he got lynched because of it the mafia would again Target me since I would be a threat.
Really I spent two nights trying to sow enough doubt about my power to stop attacks so they'd attack me because my ring was cool.
Yes I hinted at my role by posting Aragorn memes and quotes I figured I'd get mod slapped or told to stop if that wasn't okay.
My statement that I only care about one person was true to as everything I did was only to benefit myself screw you town :P though I also want to win so that means helping town is also to my benefit.
Was all this stupid and dumb plays? Maybe. Was it Hapi to her core? Yes.
So I regret nothing. >:D
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 29, 2020, 01:22:29 AM
And further Lau is right in that I'm Hapi and Hapi lies but there's always a bit of truth somewhere in it O:-)
Post by: TGN on December 29, 2020, 01:48:30 AM
so to explain my playto explain my play
*snip*
i JUST TRIED TO KILL ANYONE i COULD AND JUMP ON SUS TRAINS< NO ONE TOLD ME WHAT TO DO> I PLAYED HOW i WANTED TO. oh sorry cap lock and I'm to lazy to fix :p (except once but I didn't do it because I forgot :P)
Post by: Imaginative Kane on December 29, 2020, 10:07:47 AM
I liked those source material posts earlier on so I found it unfortunate that they seemed to taper off later in the game but also understandable (risk of mod action and seeming suspicious and some of the players doing that dying)
Post by: Minish on December 30, 2020, 04:59:54 AM
Had fun with what I did play though and it's nice to see town pulled it off in the end.
Thanks for hosting Red Mones and thanks for asking for a replacement so that I joined Silver.
Post by: Red Mones on December 30, 2020, 08:25:43 PM
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on December 30, 2020, 09:53:47 PM
This is my future :))
Post by: Eastern New England on December 31, 2020, 12:03:48 PM
I hope that you had fun playing Werewolf, and would like to join us again for more games in the future! If you would like us to let you know when we're having new Werewolf games in the future, just post here and let us know how we can best contact you. We can contact you here on Wintreath, or through our network of ambassadors and representatives if you're usually elsewhere.It'd be great if you could contact me for the next game! You can reach me through Discord at Mr. Turtle#8083 or alternatively telegram my main nation "Eastern New England" on-site.
Post by: Laurentus on December 31, 2020, 02:03:13 PM
Speaking of, when is the game at XKI happening?I hope that you had fun playing Werewolf, and would like to join us again for more games in the future! If you would like us to let you know when we're having new Werewolf games in the future, just post here and let us know how we can best contact you. We can contact you here on Wintreath, or through our network of ambassadors and representatives if you're usually elsewhere.It'd be great if you could contact me for the next game! You can reach me through Discord at Mr. Turtle#8083 or alternatively telegram my main nation "Eastern New England" on-site.
Post by: Flying Eagles on December 31, 2020, 03:53:01 PM
As Monarch and Founder of Wintreath, I wanted to thank everyone for being part of this game, especially our guests. This game was spectacular, and in your own way each of you helped make it the great game that it was. Thanks to @Red Mones and @Ruguo for putting together and hosting this game as well! There was a lot of pressure to make this a fun and successful game...some of it honestly from me...and I know they put in a lot of time and work to rise to the challenge. :)I think I have email notifs on for Wintreath’s PMs so that should work
I hope that you had fun playing Werewolf, and would like to join us again for more games in the future! If you would like us to let you know when we're having new Werewolf games in the future, just post here and let us know how we can best contact you. We can contact you here on Wintreath, or through our network of ambassadors and representatives if you're usually elsewhere.
Again, thanks again for joining us and for making this such an awesome game. :)
Post by: Eastern New England on December 31, 2020, 07:33:37 PM
Speaking of, when is the game at XKI happening?It should be soon, Wille-Harlia is hosting it and I think they've already started planning.
Post by: Red Mones on December 31, 2020, 07:49:25 PM