Wintreath Regional Community

The Amalyan Quarter - Fun Things We Do => The Lost Village - Werewolf/Mafia Games => Topic started by: Michi on February 29, 2020, 08:30:01 AM

Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on February 29, 2020, 08:30:01 AM
(https://slm-assets.secondlife.com/assets/19198338/view_large/Medieval_Village.jpg?1512922139)

Once upon a time,

There lived a small village near the outskirts of a forest and at the edge of the river.
The people there were happy, living simple lives and wanting for nothing as nature provided.
They had parties, and festivals, dancing and drinking until the brink of dawn, enjoying their carefree lives.

But this carefree nature would soon meet its end.

One particularly terrible night, the moon shined down upon the sleeping village.
On this night, one wandering villager would meet their bloodstained end by claws and teeth.

And the villagers would awaken to hear their screams, signaling the horror that was to come.



Hello and welcome to Werewolf XXI!  In this game, we're going back to the basic roots of Werewolf.  No long detailed story, no convoluted roles or rules, and no tricks, turns, or tweaks in gameplay.  It's Werewolf as you may have first known it, here once again.

For those who are new to Werewolf, I'll explain how this game plays, but I also recommend checking these topics for a good idea of how to play, as well as any of the past games to get a more in depth idea:

Tips and Tricks to Last in Werewolf (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=1684.0)
Werewolf Beginner's Guide (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=3759.0)
The Unofficial and Important Rules of Werewolf (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=1982.0)

In Werewolf, it's simply a game of Liars.  In this game, you'll have 3, yes that's right, three werewolves on the run.  They'll do their best to blend in with the villagers, but you must be vigilant and do your best to seek them out.  If the number of Werewolves outnumber or equal the number of remaining villagers, they will win the game (in other words, if the odds are 3 vs 3, 2 vs 2, or 1 vs 1, the werewolves will automatically win).

But fear not! If the villagers successfully lynch all of the werewolves, they win the game!

How is this achieved some of you may ask?  That comes down to the Game Phases:

Day Phase: During each of these phases, you'll discuss and vote as a group as to who you think a Werewolf is.

Example day phase discussion:

Quote
Bob: I think Frank is the wolf!
Sue: Why do you think that?
Bob: He was really quiet last round, and that makes me suspicious.  On that note, I'll Vote: Lynch Frank
Frank: Oh come on now, that's totally not fair.  I was quiet because I knew you'd come after me next.  If anything, you're even more suspicious with that flimsy logic.  Vote: Lynch Bob
Sue: No, Bob makes sense, you're acting really wolfy.  Vote: Lynch Frank
Kareen: Vote: Lynch Frank

Host at the end of the phase: With 3 votes, Frank has been lynched. He was a Werewolf

Whoever the majority vote is (as shown in the example above) will be the current Lynch target.  You can choose to vote for yourself (with caution that it may cause an unexpected bandwagon against you), or you can choose to vote "No Lynch" for one day phase.  The first Day Phase will last 72 real time hours (3 Days), and every Day Phase after will last 48 real time hours (2 Days).

Night Phase: During each night phase, Villagers will be "asleep" and doing nothing.  Power roles (Defenders, Seer, Werewolves) will be PMing the Game Host (aka me) with their target choices (which have been explained in their role PMs).  Night Phases will last 24 hours (1 Day) or until all power roles have sent in their definitive choice for the night, whichever comes first.

The roles in this game are followed:

The Seer (1): During each night, the Seer can PM the Game Host a player's name.  The host will tell the Seer the role of that player, provided the chosen player isn't a successful Werewolf target.  If the seer has scanned a villager or good role, they will be added to the Seer's Army PM at the Seer's request and can discuss strategies with the Seer for that point onward.  If the seer has scanned a Werewolf, the Seer can use that knowledge as they so choose in the game thread, provided they aren't revealing roles upon their own death.

The Defenders (2): During each night, the Defenders can each choose their own person to protect from a Werewolf attack.  Whether or not they're successful, they cannot protect the same person for 2 consecutive nights, nor can they protect themselves (but they can protect each other).  Both of the Defenders know each other, and will both be revealed to the Seer if the Seer successfully scans one of them.

The Werewolves (3): During each night, the werewolves will decide as a group on who to kill off.  During each day, they'll pose as the good guys and do their best to keep any suspicion off of them.  These are obviously the bad guys that the villagers will want to lynch if they want to win the game.

The Villagers ( 8 ): During each day, the villagers will discuss and vote as a group on who they believe the werewolves are.  During each night, they'll do nothing, waiting in their beds for the terrible night to be over.

And here are the rules:

1) The first Day Phase will be 72 hours.  Each Day Phase afterward will be 48 hours, with each night phase being 24 hours.  Phases will start and end in Pacific Standard Time.  If you need an idea of what time that'd be for you, the example would be that once this topic is posted, it'll be around roughly 5:45 to 6PM Pacific Standard Time.  At the end of each Day Phase, the night phase will immediately start when the results from the Day Phase are posted, the same goes for the Night Phase.

2) When lynched or killed in a Werewolf strike, players will be invited to a PM to spectate the events of the game and talk amongst themselves.  Players are also welcome to say goodbye in the thread once they're killed before moving to the PM.  Dead players are not allowed to hint or make references to any roles they have any knowledge of (IE a dead seer revealing a werewolf).

3) Defenders know each other at the start, and can defend each other.  They cannot defend themselves, nor can they defend the same person for two consecutive nights.  If a seer scans a defender, they get both.

4) The Seer is welcome to share any knowledge they learn so long as they're still alive in the game.  However, because this is a game of liars, a Seer's findings will be seen at face value and as a possible death sentence either at the hands of the mob, or at the werewolves.

5) You will have one chance to vote "No Lynch" in the game, however you are allowed to vote to lynch yourself as much as you choose.  Keep in mind that voting to lynch yourself does not come without risk if it suddenly starts a bandwagon of people choosing to vote for you.  You may also choose to simply not vote to avoid using your "No Lynch" vote, but that can make you look equally suspicious.

6) To vote during each day phase, please bold your choice for the host to see, an example being Vote: Lynch Sapphiron.

7) During each night phase, Power Roles (Defenders, Seer, Werewolves) will send the Game Host a PM with their choices that night.  Werewolves will decide as a group, defenders will choose individually (but can strategize their choices together), and the seer will decide soley (but can consult with any known allies in the PM on who to choose).

8 ) As mentioned in other Werewolf tip/trick topics, it is highly...highly recommended to not edit your posts (the game host being the only exception).  Editing posts can be seen as witholding important information, and thus seen as incredibly suspicious.  So while it isn't against the rules persay, just don't do it.  It's very encouraged to keep your posts as is, regardless of any typos.

And that's the game!  Any questions? Feel free to ask away in here, and the game will begin now, and will begin in the Day Phase, which will end in exactly 3 days (12:30 AM PST on March 3rd). So let's get acquainted and get this show on the road!

Happy Werewolf Hunting!

Day Phase 1 Begins Now
Phase will end on: March 3rd at 12:30 AM PST

Roles:
Villagers - 6 Living 2 dead
Werewolves: 1 Living 2 Dead
Seer: 1 Living
Defenders: 1 Living 1 dead

Players:
@Gerrick
@Melehan
@Ruguo
@Hydra
@Imaginative Kane
@Red Mones
@Aragonn
@Mathyland
@Doc
@taulover
@Laurentus
@Wintermoot
@El Fiji Grande
@HappySpin
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on February 29, 2020, 09:10:14 AM
Lol. Did you post this in the main Frostmist Arena subforum again?
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on February 29, 2020, 10:23:52 AM
But of course.  It isn't traditional Pengu hosted Werewolf without me accidentally posting it in the main area.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on February 29, 2020, 02:27:11 PM
Busy as I am with the Commission stuff and work and life, I'm going to go ahead and start the self-lynch train so I don't forget to vote in the first round. Because that would be embarrassing.

Vote: Lynch Melehan
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on February 29, 2020, 05:13:12 PM
I moved the topic. In other news, I vote: Doc because he's always the wolf. I mean, not in recent games, but you can never be too careful.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on February 29, 2020, 06:38:37 PM
I suppose I wouldn't be breaking the truce if I just kinda... allow Doc to get lynched, but I'll vote for Ruguo. I really want to see Doc live past day 1 for once.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on February 29, 2020, 07:06:24 PM
It's a risky move, but I like playing with chance. I'll Vote: Ruguo to get Doc out of the running.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on February 29, 2020, 10:24:25 PM
I moved the topic. In other news, I vote: Doc because he's always the wolf. I mean, not in recent games, but you can never be too careful.
Betrayed! By a fellow commissioner! My trust is forever broken.

I suppose I wouldn't be breaking the truce if I just kinda... allow Doc to get lynched, but I'll vote for Ruguo. I really want to see Doc live past day 1 for once.
I'm glad you're finally remembering that I don't remember most details of games.
However, one foolish error! I always remember when I died, and I've actually survived past day 1 in most of the last few games!
...but that's NAI anyway.

It's a risky move, but I like playing with chance. I'll Vote: Ruguo to get Doc out of the running.
This, on the other hand. Sure, I'm 'in the running' prior to your vote, but it's up to RNG (admittedly, generally working against me) and with 2 other people up on the chopping block. What it sounds like to me instead is direct action being taken against Ruguo, while using Laurentus' explanation and my natural fervor to keep myself alive as some sort of smokescreen.
Without any ability to know alignment at this juncture (outside of the wolves and defenders, neither of which have any reason to attack each other at this juncture; it's too early for wolves to try to bus someone for credibility), it's also pretty NAI...but I'm suspicious.
That said, your assessment that I'd like to stay alive is dead right, so I'm not going to act on this suspicion yet.
To avoid this, breaking my truce with Laurentus, starting a fight with Melehan, or wagoning Ruguo, I have to pick someone who hasn't spoken yet, so I'm working at random.

Diceroll says Vote: Wintermoot.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 01, 2020, 02:06:30 AM
Well hello, everyone. >:D
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 01, 2020, 02:22:28 AM
I suppose I wouldn't be breaking the truce if I just kinda... allow Doc to get lynched, but I'll vote for Ruguo. I really want to see Doc live past day 1 for once.
Fair enough. Had to do it though. It just wouldn't be right otherwise.

It's a risky move, but I like playing with chance. I'll Vote: Ruguo to get Doc out of the running.
Morp! Someone had to do it for the memes if Lau and Doc had a truce! Also, what's with the second vote? If Lau already voted me, and votes are almost guaranteed to shift in the next 52ish hours, is a second vote really necessary this early?

Betrayed! By a fellow commissioner! My trust is forever broken.
I do what I must
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: HappySpin on March 01, 2020, 03:27:19 AM
Hey y'all! I'm new to this community (although not new to the game of Werewolf), so I don't know much of y'all yet. Therefore, gonna myself; Vote: HappySpin
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 01, 2020, 08:03:00 AM
Makes note of everything that's happened

Welcome to Wintreath, Happy Spin! I hope we don't end up murdering you at some point.  :)
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Wintermoot on March 01, 2020, 04:18:18 PM
Whoa ho ho, what's with this Laurentus-Aragonn-Doc alliance that immediately sprung up? And why are most of them piling on Ruguo just for voting for Doc? I mean, I get voting for the person that makes the first move, but this sudden fawning over for Doc is just a bit over the top for the first round. He could be a werewolf just the same as anybody else, you know. Dare I say...conspiracy! ;) :P

And diceroll my ass goes full conspiracy theory. :P

Vote: Doc
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 01, 2020, 09:04:23 PM
Whoa ho ho, what's with this Laurentus-Aragonn-Doc alliance that immediately sprung up?
1) Lau actually brought it up in the signup thread, it's not sudden at all
2) I've expressed my suspicions about Aragonn, but I also like being alive which is why I'm not acting on them because to act on them would prompt him to shift his vote to me and guarantee my demise.
And diceroll my ass goes full conspiracy theory. :P

Vote: Doc
If it was a conspiracy, wouldn't I have just...also voted Ruguo?
And it was a diceroll! It was a 7 on a d10, you were 7th on the list of players excluding those who had already posted and myself (out of 9; a 10 would have been 'reroll').
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 01, 2020, 09:51:43 PM
Yeah, Doc and I declared a truce before the game even began. I am somewhat surprised that Aragonn jumped on the Ruguo wagon, but I'm not sure if it's just early game bussing to evoke a reaction to be tested or what.

And certainly, Doc could be a Wolf, but the last time we went to war, it didn't go so well for town, so I'm steering well clear of that until round 3.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 02, 2020, 12:48:59 AM
I'm gonna Vote: Laurentus purely because he didn't finish the last game of Werewolf.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 02, 2020, 01:12:34 AM
Do you want wars? This is how we get wars.

(Also, fair, I apologise).
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 02, 2020, 04:55:32 AM
I'll probably stay out of this for now.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 02, 2020, 06:48:38 AM
It's the first day. To hell if I'm gonna do anything serious. The most serious thing I did was attempt to aid in keeping Doc alive until day 3 as was talked about briefly in the sign up thread. I'm not throwing blame onto anyone this early. I'd have absolutely nothing to go off of.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: taulover on March 02, 2020, 08:41:05 PM
Vote: Wintermoot to balance out the Ruguo vote and also to continue this funny "protect Doc" movement that we're seeing
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Hydra on March 03, 2020, 01:35:20 AM
Hmm I don't want to break the tie and therefore I'll just Vote: Hydra for the first round. Good luck, Doc! :P
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 03, 2020, 07:23:27 AM
One hour remaining...
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 03, 2020, 08:29:58 AM
Day Phase 1 has ended!
Here are the results:

Melehan: Vote Self
Ruguo: Vote Doc
Laurentus: Vote Ruguo
Aragonn: Vote Ruguo
Doc: Vote Wintermoot
HappySpin: Vote Self
Wintermoot: Vote Doc
Gerrick: Vote Laurentus
Red Mones: No vote this Round
Taulover: Vote Wintermoot
Hydra: Vote Hydra
El Fiji Grande: No activity this round
Mathyland: No activity this round
Imaginative Kane: No activity this round

Totals:

Doc: 2 Votes
Ruguo: 2 Votes
Wintermoot: 2 Votes
Melehan: 1 Vote
HappySpin: 1 Vote
Hydra: 1 Vote
Laurentus: 1 Vote
No Vote: 4

Due to the three way tie of only 2 votes each, no victim has been claimed this round.

Alright folks, it's now time to enter the game's first Night Phase.

In this phase, anyone in the villager role will be "asleep" during the events.  You're welcome to chat in here as long as you keep it to a minimum, but keep in mind that anything you say during the night can be used against you in the next day.

If you are the:

Defenders: Please PM me with your defensive choices.  Please remember that you cannot protect yourself, but you can choose to defend each other.

Seer: Please PM me with the name of the player, and I will reveal the player's role to you at the end of the phase if the player lives through the night.

Werewolves: Please PM me with your choice in victim for the night.  If your attack was successful (if you choose to do so), it will be revealed at the end of the night.

This Night Phase will end on March 4th, 2020 at 12:30AM Pacific Time, or in exactly 24 hours.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 03, 2020, 06:28:02 PM
Damn, forgot to vote.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Imaginative Kane on March 03, 2020, 07:00:35 PM
Darn I misread the end of the phase time.  Thought it was pm, not am oh well.

So to have RNG determine a lynch does that require more votes to be cast?  Since that didn't happen this day phase when there were 2 votes each for the plurality votes.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: taulover on March 03, 2020, 07:58:49 PM
I am also curious about how you're setting the lynch rule here.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 03, 2020, 10:18:25 PM
in my heart of hearts, i know it's only a no lynch because RNGesus came up with my name again and Pengu felt sorry for me
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 04, 2020, 08:30:08 AM
Darn I misread the end of the phase time.  Thought it was pm, not am oh well.

So to have RNG determine a lynch does that require more votes to be cast?  Since that didn't happen this day phase when there were 2 votes each for the plurality votes.

This one is usually open to interpretation currently for the Game Host, but for me personally when it comes to ties, I also go by the number of total players (so with it being 6 out of 14 split 3 equal ways in this case).  At the same time, if it had been a 2 way tie of 3 versus 3, I would have more than likely sent it to RNG.  But it doesn't feel right to me doing a tie breaker when the three people only had 2 votes each...unless this was later in the game where 6 players was more of a majority.

Anyways, wakey wakey everyone! The night has finished up!

During the night, you lost a companion.

Taulover, a Villager was killed in a werewolf attack.

And with this, we're at 13 total players.

That being said, it's time to start another Day Phase! So let's get to discussing, getting those votes out for who you think might be a Werewolf.

This day phase will end on March 6th at 12:30AM PST (or exactly 48 hours from now)
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 04, 2020, 08:36:00 AM
RIP Tau.

I've noticed that @El Fiji Grande has become quite active around the community, but has not yet spoken in the game.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 04, 2020, 08:51:15 AM
Alright, calling in 2am brain to analyse why Tau. What did Tau do last phase that would have made him a target? Hmmm. He did one thing total. Vote for moot. Knowing that he was a villager, there is no reason to believe he was protecting anyone as a defender might. Now, voting Moot had no ultimate effect, but at the time we thought it would be RNGesus deciding our fate. Maybe the wolves were unhappy about moot being up there? It wasn't an inactivity thing, as there were plenty of people who did nothing at all last day. Speaking of those people, I want o hear from @Mathyland because I see her on the discord and maybe she forgot about the forums, or maybe she's just laying low. Continuing the former train of thought, I would like to hear from moot himself about what he thinks of the attack. Because on the flip side, why would they want to frame moot if innocent? Why not me for the Doc thing and failing to post again to jump off the wagon? I've been framed for less.
Finally, I want to see more of Aragonn today. I don't like the double pile that got started because of him. I don't like the double doc vote either, but I understand it. And the double moot vote wasn't malicious at least, but I don't like that it was felt to be needed.
Alright, I'm done now. If that makes no sense, ask me about it in like... six hours.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 04, 2020, 09:29:39 AM
Night Kill Analysis rarely gets good results, because it's The Wine in Front of Me personified. Tau would definitely have been the target I would have gone for as a Wolf too, because he's dangerous in the long run, but wasn't prominent enough to stand a good chance of being defended from a kill. I'm not sure there's anything more to it than that.

That said, I would also like to hear from Mathy.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 04, 2020, 03:46:49 PM
You've already heard from me. I had no reason to lie to you. It was day 1. I can pull some bullcrap out my behind later in the game, but day 1 is day 1.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Wintermoot on March 04, 2020, 06:20:19 PM
It's possible that he was voted off to make me look suspicious, since the only thing he did was vote for me. It could be that I've started raising too many questions about certain people in this game, but directly killing me off would be too obvious. :P

Laurentus's theory is also possible, and that would imply that at least one of the wolves are experienced specifically in our games and knows who would be dangerous in the long run, given that nobody could infer that from the one thing he did in this game.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 04, 2020, 07:02:00 PM
Yeah, it is unlikely to be a noob, unless they have read up on previous games.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Imaginative Kane on March 04, 2020, 10:50:23 PM
That is an interesting death to see and pretty smart for those reasons.  I actually might have targeted a different experienced player if I was a wolf; although I understand the reasoning behind targeting taulover.

I don't really have much in the way of suspicions yet so I will wait and watch the dialogue.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Mathyland on March 04, 2020, 11:27:34 PM
Speaking of those people, I want o hear from @Mathyland because I see her on the discord and maybe she forgot about the forums, or maybe she's just laying low.
*him/he

I haven't been as active on the forums as the Discord, but it was mostly that I don't see much point to discussion on the first day. You either get targeted by an inexperienced wolf who decides to kill the first person who talks, or you get suspicion thrown around the first day. This is why I am usually silent on the first day.

I could definitely see how Tau's death points to the werewolf being an experienced werewolf player. But with three werewolves, it was very likely from the get-go that at least one wouldn't be a noob.

I don't think anything so far has been super revealing. Doc and Lau made that truce before the game started, Wintermoot seemed like a random enough vote, and it's only been one day; there's not that much to reveal yet.

With a seer and two defenders still alive, and potentially one in the seer's private chat, it might be best not to lynch anyone this round. I don't know if Pengu will allow us to not lynch anyone on purpose. If we start voting, I'll probably wait a bit to make a decision.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Hydra on March 04, 2020, 11:40:12 PM
Well those who know to go after tau include Laurentus, Aragonn, and myself because House Valeria totally trusts one another.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: El Fiji Grande on March 05, 2020, 12:32:54 AM
RIP Tau.

I've noticed that @El Fiji Grande has become quite active around the community, but has not yet spoken in the game.
I haven't had much to say.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 05, 2020, 01:19:39 AM
Sorry about misgendering you, Mathy. I'll make a note of that.

As to the experienced werewolf point, I would have to agree. The probability of having three noobs as wolves is very, very low. I'm sure someone could do the math, but alas, I'm too lazy.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Mathyland on March 05, 2020, 02:12:58 AM
As to the experienced werewolf point, I would have to agree. The probability of having three noobs as wolves is very, very low. I'm sure someone could do the math, but alas, I'm too lazy.
I only see one or two people who haven't played werewolf here before, so it looks like the chance is zero. Or if you broaden your definition of inexperienced, it is basically zero. So our "lead" about the werewolves being experienced isn't useful.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 05, 2020, 02:51:56 PM
RIP Tau.

I've noticed that @El Fiji Grande has become quite active around the community, but has not yet spoken in the game.
I haven't had much to say.

I don't like this response. Has nothing interesting happened/have you not been following the game/do you have no opinions on the Tau kill?

Really, even a statement that you agree or disagree with someone would be cool.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 05, 2020, 08:02:56 PM
So what happens if the day end with no votes? Because it's coming to an end here in like 12 hours and there are no fingers flying formally.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 05, 2020, 08:27:06 PM
A House Valeria divided is an interesting game of cat and cat. A House Valeria unified is a near unstoppable force.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 05, 2020, 08:57:03 PM
As Ruguo pointed out, there's only 11 hrs 33 minutes left in the phase!
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 05, 2020, 09:28:23 PM
We still don’t have any new information other than “tau’s dead”. I guess I’ll Vote: Red Mones.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: El Fiji Grande on March 06, 2020, 03:12:36 AM
RIP Tau.

I've noticed that @El Fiji Grande has become quite active around the community, but has not yet spoken in the game.
I haven't had much to say.

I don't like this response. Has nothing interesting happened/have you not been following the game/do you have no opinions on the Tau kill?

Really, even a statement that you agree or disagree with someone would be cool.
I haven't had much to say because we really don't have any information. Day 1 is always a wash, and I agree with Aragonn's statements to that end. I think it was clever for the wolves to nightkill tau first, but I don't think that choice leads us to believe anything in particular about who the wolves could be. If anything, it's just a compliment to tau.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Imaginative Kane on March 06, 2020, 03:18:09 AM
Oof tough days.  There doesn't appear to be many fingers flying so far which is interesting to see at this point in the game.  I don't want to be pointing any fingers so for now I will mimic Red Mones by voting to lynch myself, especially if there are inactivity lynches in this game.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Mathyland on March 06, 2020, 04:39:25 AM
I will self Vote Mathyland since I won't be around between now and the end of the phase.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 06, 2020, 06:02:42 AM
Welp, not a whole lot to go off yet. Let's go ahead and toss Vote: Wintermoot in the mix.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 06, 2020, 06:24:08 AM
Avoiding the inactivity lynch...

Vote: Aragonn
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 06, 2020, 06:57:30 AM
Indeed. Gonna self vote as well.

vote: Ruguo
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 06, 2020, 09:44:51 AM
Sorry about that folks, I got distracted trying to find a decent free website builder for an upcoming project I'll be working on (and since it'll be a read-only website, I see no need to spend money on it).  If anyone has any suggestions (current Wix looks like the one I'll be going with), I'd love to hear them.

Alright, here's the totals for the 2nd Day Phase:

Day 2:
Red Mones: Vote Self
Imaginative Kane: Vote Self
Mathyland: Vote Self
Gerrick: Vote Wintermoot
Aragonn: Vote Self
Ruguo: Vote Self
Laurentus: Didn't Vote
Melehan: Didn't Vote
El Fiji Grande: Didn't Vote
Hydra: didn't vote
Wintermoot: Didn't Vote
HappySpin: Didn't Vote
Doc: Didn't Vote

Totals:
Wintermoot: 1 Vote
Selves (5): 1 vote each
Didn't Vote: 7

Nobody was lynched this round.

Keep in mind that you all still have one available instance of voting "No Lynch"

Alrighty, it's time for another Night Phase everyone!  Villagers, time to head to bed while the Defenders, Seer, and Wolves each send in their choices for the night via a PM to myself.  We'll end this phase on 3/7/2020 at 1:45AM PST.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 06, 2020, 07:12:02 PM
Doc: Didn't Vote
oops, shit, I thought rounds were a day longer than they apparently are for some reason

There doesn't appear to be many fingers flying so far which is interesting to see at this point in the game.  I don't want to be pointing any fingers
Strange reasoning to my eyes...

I don't like this response. Has nothing interesting happened/have you not been following the game/do you have no opinions on the Tau kill?

Really, even a statement that you agree or disagree with someone would be cool.
Honestly, nothing much interesting has happened. We've been very circumspect this whole game.

Welp, not a whole lot to go off yet. Let's go ahead and toss Vote: Wintermoot in the mix.
This is the sole non-self-vote this entire round. This, to me, says cojones, since everyone else was too afraid to rock the boat to pick someone else at random. So, fuck it, I'll back his play next round unless some Startling New Evidence comes to light.
(proooooobably unless it's Moot again, I don't want it to seem like there's some kind of grudge, he's already been 'suspicious' of my literally random choice)
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: taulover on March 06, 2020, 07:39:02 PM
Sorry about that folks, I got distracted trying to find a decent free website builder for an upcoming project I'll be working on (and since it'll be a read-only website, I see no need to spend money on it).  If anyone has any suggestions (current Wix looks like the one I'll be going with), I'd love to hear them.
DEAD

Wix is a decent choice for a free website builder.

Might suggest GitHub Pages if you want to do the web development yourself but host for free.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 06, 2020, 09:30:03 PM
Doc: Didn't Vote
oops, shit, I thought rounds were a day longer than they apparently are for some reason

Only the first day phase, which was 72 hours.  Every other day phase is only 48 hours.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 07, 2020, 08:40:04 AM
Wake up! Wake up!

While some of you slept, there was another murder during the night!

Mathyland, a Villager was killed by the wolves.

And with that, it's time for our 3rd Day Phase!  So get out there and discuss, discuss, discuss as well as vote on who you believe a wolf may be!  We're down to 12 players currently, but it's still anyone's game!

This day phase will end on 3/9/2020 at 12:40AM PST, exactly 48 hours from now.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 07, 2020, 08:58:43 AM
Can we please stop not lynching anyone? Voting patterns are a great source of info. We're going to lose if we keep this up.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 07, 2020, 03:34:10 PM
Agreed. It's day 3 now. We need to be voting people off.

I'm just curious about the wolves' choice. Why Mathyland? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: HappySpin on March 07, 2020, 05:30:05 PM

I'm just curious about the wolves' choice. Why Mathyland? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Agreed Mathyland doesn't make sense to me.

I'll Vote: Hydra, since because they didn't vote in DP2 and Hydra is kinda an evil name.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 07, 2020, 06:21:15 PM
Hmm, I get that this Hydra vote is made jokingly, but Hydra would definitely be the type of person to kill Tau first. I just don't see him going for Mathy second, though.

That said, I don't see a joke vote on day 3 being much better than choosing not to lynch. Do you have some other reason for voting for Hydra, @HappySpin?
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 07, 2020, 06:23:42 PM
Mayhaps it actually is a member of House Valeria trying to cover their tracks.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: HappySpin on March 07, 2020, 06:28:52 PM
That said, I don't see a joke vote on day 3 being much better than choosing not to lynch. Do you have some other reason for voting for Hydra, @HappySpin?

Like you said, we need to see voting patterns, and if we don't start voting people, the werewolves will pick us all of during the night. By voting people, we can see who defends who (as you are defending Hydra) and use this information. If we keep voting "no lynch", the werewolves will win! :P
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 07, 2020, 06:29:38 PM
So it's a reaction test?
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 07, 2020, 06:42:35 PM
Y'know what? I'll act on my trail of thought.

Vote: Hydra
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 07, 2020, 07:06:53 PM
Mathy's made one substantive post, spoilered below.
To save room
I haven't been as active on the forums as the Discord, but it was mostly that I don't see much point to discussion on the first day. You either get targeted by an inexperienced wolf who decides to kill the first person who talks, or you get suspicion thrown around the first day. This is why I am usually silent on the first day.

I could definitely see how Tau's death points to the werewolf being an experienced werewolf player. But with three werewolves, it was very likely from the get-go that at least one wouldn't be a noob.

I don't think anything so far has been super revealing. Doc and Lau made that truce before the game started, Wintermoot seemed like a random enough vote, and it's only been one day; there's not that much to reveal yet.

With a seer and two defenders still alive, and potentially one in the seer's private chat, it might be best not to lynch anyone this round. I don't know if Pengu will allow us to not lynch anyone on purpose. If we start voting, I'll probably wait a bit to make a decision.
In that post, probably the most significant thing is
I could definitely see how Tau's death points to the werewolf being an experienced werewolf player. But with three werewolves, it was very likely from the get-go that at least one wouldn't be a noob.
Unfortunately...not a whole lot to go on there, aside from 'at least one of the wolves is one of the usual suspects' (The Usual Suspects: Gerrick, Hydra, Aragonn, (sigh) Me, Lau).
Of these suspects, Hydra is already a target with 2 votes. And somehow, in my Deep Dive back into my own voting history (since now that it's day 3, I presume it's gloves-off between me and Lau so he's gonna start castigating me for not remembering my own previous moves), I find that I seem to go off on Hydra a lot. So I'm gonna sidestep that whole issue entirely, because I'm not about to board a wagon without rather more convincing evidence.
Instead, since reaction tests were brought up, I'm going to dig back deeper into a reaction I thought was fascinating.
Dare I say...conspiracy! ;) :P

And diceroll my ass goes full conspiracy theory. :P

Vote: Doc
Is it weird of me to think that, in a 1:2:1 vote, where you're a 1, not the 2, you would decide that a retaliation vote to bring it to 2:2:1, rather than 1:2:1:1, is a weird move? It seems like it would be calculated to make me switch over to voting Ruguo in the interests of self-preservation - that or gambling on RNGesus, which is historically a bad move for me. Had it not been for Tau's vote on Moot bringing the RNGesus odds to 1 in 3, I absolutely would have made that switch. Without firm knowledge of Ruguo's identity, I can't definitively say 'Moot must be scum trying to get me to be the deciding vote on a villager lynch', but I kinda like the odds on this call.
Vote: Wintermoot.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 07, 2020, 07:11:32 PM
This, on the other hand. Sure, I'm 'in the running' prior to your vote, but it's up to RNG (admittedly, generally working against me) and with 2 other people up on the chopping block. What it sounds like to me instead is direct action being taken against Ruguo, while using Laurentus' explanation and my natural fervor to keep myself alive as some sort of smokescreen.
Without any ability to know alignment at this juncture (outside of the wolves and defenders, neither of which have any reason to attack each other at this juncture; it's too early for wolves to try to bus someone for credibility), it's also pretty NAI...but I'm suspicious.
That said, your assessment that I'd like to stay alive is dead right, so I'm not going to act on this suspicion yet.
Hmm. Wait. Shit. I'd forgotten this.
And in light of Aragonn again going in as the second vote on someone without all that convincing an argument being laid out, that looks pretty sketch to me.
I'm gonna look like a flip-flopping moron here with 2 posts in 5 minutes where I go off on someone but hell with it, Vote: Aragonn.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 07, 2020, 07:23:30 PM
Honestly, you have a more convincing argument to vote for Wintermoot. It got me convinced to switch my vote over to him. But then I saw you swap over to me. Was it not I who voiced their suspicion that one of the wolves is a member of my house? With very little actually catching my eye, and a vote already cast for one of my remaining brothers, I figured it was as good a chance at nailing them as any before they could do more damage.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 07, 2020, 08:00:40 PM
Soooooooooooo. While I didn't forget to vote on Day 1, I did manage to completely forget to on Day 2.

Oops.

Gerrick so far has been the only one consistently not voting himself which, at this point could go either way. Aragonn on the other hand seems to have a tendency to pile.

I'm going to vote Aragonn because that willingness to pile strikes me as the most suspicious so far.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 07, 2020, 08:03:19 PM
Same could be said about you, buddy.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 07, 2020, 08:05:19 PM
Same could be said about you, buddy.
Except I haven't piled my vote on anyone in the first two days, so no.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 07, 2020, 08:07:23 PM
Same could be said about you, buddy.
Except I haven't piled my vote on anyone in the first two days, so no.
Except you just did pile your vote. And it seems like you've completely ignored the suspicions and reasonings of other people. You've put less thought and effort into your vote than I did.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 07, 2020, 08:11:45 PM
Same could be said about you, buddy.
Except I haven't piled my vote on anyone in the first two days, so no.
Except you just did pile your vote. And it seems like you've completely ignored the suspicions and reasonings of other people. You've put less thought and effort into your vote than I did.
Having different suspicions doesn't mean ignoring others' suspicions, and the length of the stretch you're making to try to make me seem the suspicious one is just further convincing me that you're scummy.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 07, 2020, 08:28:41 PM
Same could be said about you, buddy.
Except I haven't piled my vote on anyone in the first two days, so no.
Except you just did pile your vote. And it seems like you've completely ignored the suspicions and reasonings of other people. You've put less thought and effort into your vote than I did.
Having different suspicions doesn't mean ignoring others' suspicions, and the length of the stretch you're making to try to make me seem the suspicious one is just further convincing me that you're scummy.
Yes because a person defending themselves from getting voted off automatically makes them scum. Hey everyone! Vote for me! I'm the guy you want!
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 07, 2020, 09:28:21 PM
Same could be said about you, buddy.
Except I haven't piled my vote on anyone in the first two days, so no.
Except you just did pile your vote. And it seems like you've completely ignored the suspicions and reasonings of other people. You've put less thought and effort into your vote than I did.
Having different suspicions doesn't mean ignoring others' suspicions, and the length of the stretch you're making to try to make me seem the suspicious one is just further convincing me that you're scummy.
Yes because a person defending themselves from getting voted off automatically makes them scum. Hey everyone! Vote for me! I'm the guy you want!

Hmm. I'm not buying it, Aragonn. You didn't merely try to defend yourself. You tried to drop some of that suspicion on Melehan in the process.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 07, 2020, 10:22:25 PM
I merely pointed out the hypocrisy of his reasoning.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 07, 2020, 10:44:34 PM
Huh. I'm actually realising something. Can someone check my sanity here?

Did it look to anyone else that Aragonn was trying to distance himself from the Mathy kill?
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 07, 2020, 10:45:43 PM
*like Aragonn was distancing, my apologies.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 07, 2020, 11:47:56 PM
Quote from: Aragonn
I merely pointed out the hypocrisy of his reasoning.
Oh really?

Same could be said about you, buddy.
Except I haven't piled my vote on anyone in the first two days, so no.
Except you just did pile your vote. And it seems like you've completely ignored the suspicions and reasonings of other people. You've put less thought and effort into your vote than I did.
This directly contradicts Doc's earlier post:

And in light of Aragonn again going in as the second vote on someone without all that convincing an argument being laid out, that looks pretty sketch to me.
I'm gonna look like a flip-flopping moron here with 2 posts in 5 minutes where I go off on someone but hell with it, Vote: Aragonn.
In other words, Doc and I have both voted for Aragonn for the same reason, which directly contradicts Aragonn's assertion that I've completely ignored the suspicions and reasoning of others.

Couple that with how hard he's trying to portray me as an irrational busser, and I'm pretty convinced he's scum.

It also looks like he was trying to pin the kill on another member of House Valeria, which I'm assuming is the distancing @Laurentus is referencing, which is even scummier, not that I needed more convincing at this point.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 07, 2020, 11:55:16 PM
Yeah, at this point, I think we've found our Wolf.

Vote: Aragonn
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 08, 2020, 12:59:58 AM
Looks like multiple people have suspicions about Aragonn. I agree with them and Vote: Aragonn.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Imaginative Kane on March 08, 2020, 01:27:01 AM
Doc seems to have given very good reasons for voting Moot.  While Aragonn appearing voting on piles is suspicious, I think it might be better to vote to lynch other suspicious looking players.  Before I vote though I will wait to see more discussion which will hopefully include other players who haven't spoken like @Gerrick @El Fiji Grande @Wintermoot and @Ruguo.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 08, 2020, 01:54:32 AM
While Aragonn appearing voting on piles is suspicious, I think it might be better to vote to lynch other suspicious looking players.
...are you trying to have your cake and eat it too as far as bussing Aragonn goes, because right now it looks like you're simultaneously trying to bus him and quietly protect him too.
This is some pretty weak reasoning that's pushing me to file you right between Aragonn and Moot in my Suspicion Rankings™, such that it is presently
1) Aragonn
2) Kane
3) Wintermoot

Of course, I guess if we find that Aragonn is town that might exonerate Kane for this...vague gesturing towards the bus lane...that he's trying to pull (because that's how weak a bussing this is, he's not throwing him under the bus, he's indicating where one could conceivably find a bus), because in the exoneration case (which I should stress is the most charitable interpretation imaginable), they're in the Seer Squad and so in contact.
But I sorta doubt it.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 08, 2020, 01:56:29 AM
I rather think a Seer would put up a slightly firmer defence.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 08, 2020, 02:06:34 AM
Hey everyone! Vote for me! I'm the guy you want!
Guys, we found him! Vote: Aragonn
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Imaginative Kane on March 08, 2020, 02:08:04 AM
I rather think a Seer would put up a slightly firmer defence.
A seer I am not.

While Aragonn appearing voting on piles is suspicious, I think it might be better to vote to lynch other suspicious looking players.
...are you trying to have your cake and eat it too as far as bussing Aragonn goes, because right now it looks like you're simultaneously trying to bus him and quietly protect him too.
This is some pretty weak reasoning that's pushing me to file you right between Aragonn and Moot in my Suspicion Rankings™, such that it is presently
1) Aragonn
2) Kane
3) Wintermoot

Of course, I guess if we find that Aragonn is town that might exonerate Kane for this...vague gesturing towards the bus lane...that he's trying to pull (because that's how weak a bussing this is, he's not throwing him under the bus, he's indicating where one could conceivably find a bus), because in the exoneration case (which I should stress is the most charitable interpretation imaginable), they're in the Seer Squad and so in contact.
But I sorta doubt it.
You could say I am playing a Devil's Advocate here but doing a terrible job at it hence my reasoning for waiting to see more of what is said first before I finalize my arguments and votes.  I am not surprised that you find me suspicious because I haven't been the most active and I tend to give unusual or suspicious reasoning for my votes.
I can assure you all that I am definitely not one of the wolves.
Yes I am defending Aragonn because while he definitely has been acting suspicious; isn't he always acting suspicious in games of Werewolf and usually not a wolf in those games?  Think of Star Wars Werewolf, Warhammer Werewolf, and the Werewolf Song of Ice and Fire (if you were a Lannister for the latter)

I think he is just trying to provoke discussion but in the process provoking a wagon.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 08, 2020, 02:20:38 AM
Just wanted to apologize for inactivity, was travelling today for spring break.  Let me read over everything that's happened and I'll got a scumspect list up.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 08, 2020, 02:28:06 AM
I rather think a Seer would put up a slightly firmer defence.
A seer I am not.

While Aragonn appearing voting on piles is suspicious, I think it might be better to vote to lynch other suspicious looking players.
...are you trying to have your cake and eat it too as far as bussing Aragonn goes, because right now it looks like you're simultaneously trying to bus him and quietly protect him too.
This is some pretty weak reasoning that's pushing me to file you right between Aragonn and Moot in my Suspicion Rankings™, such that it is presently
1) Aragonn
2) Kane
3) Wintermoot

Of course, I guess if we find that Aragonn is town that might exonerate Kane for this...vague gesturing towards the bus lane...that he's trying to pull (because that's how weak a bussing this is, he's not throwing him under the bus, he's indicating where one could conceivably find a bus), because in the exoneration case (which I should stress is the most charitable interpretation imaginable), they're in the Seer Squad and so in contact.
But I sorta doubt it.
You could say I am playing a Devil's Advocate here but doing a terrible job at it hence my reasoning for waiting to see more of what is said first before I finalize my arguments and votes.  I am not surprised that you find me suspicious because I haven't been the most active and I tend to give unusual or suspicious reasoning for my votes.
I can assure you all that I am definitely not one of the wolves.
Yes I am defending Aragonn because while he definitely has been acting suspicious; isn't he always acting suspicious in games of Werewolf and usually not a wolf in those games?  Think of Star Wars Werewolf, Warhammer Werewolf, and the Werewolf Song of Ice and Fire (if you were a Lannister for the latter)

I think he is just trying to provoke discussion but in the process provoking a wagon.

Thats... actually a really good point.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 08, 2020, 02:45:58 AM
Think of Star Wars Werewolf, Warhammer Werewolf, and the Werewolf Song of Ice and Fire (if you were a Lannister for the latter)

uh, hello, the official Doc namelist of Werewolves is

XI: Werehammer 40K
XII: The Host Did It
XIII: Wolfoween
XIV: GoTWolf: King's Landing Edition and XIV.2: GoTWolf: Wall Edition (or in Square Enix form, XIV: 2: GoTWolf: Dream Drop Distance)
XV: Fashion Bitches
XVI: Aren't Werewolves and Vampires Supposed To Be At War, Why Are They The Same Thing Now
XVII: Star Weres: A New Wolf
XVIII: My Talent is Dying Horribly
XIX: The Three Heads of the Wolf
XX: Almost Everyone Lived Happily Ever After

Kane is here referring to XIV and XVII, and I must assume also to XI unless there was another Werehammer that happened before I joined the forums.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 08, 2020, 02:50:07 AM
My certainty in Aragonn's guilt is not as absolute now that you've brought in previous patterns of behaviour for the same thing, but I don't see a more aus person, either way. I certainly don't think Hydra is more suspicious.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 08, 2020, 02:51:41 AM
*sus, not "aus"

Autocorrect can FOAD.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 08, 2020, 03:20:58 AM
There's acting suspicious, and there's acting suspicious. Aragonn's response to my vote for him seems a bit much, especially in contrast to his response to Doc who voted Aragonn for the same reason. He's very much topping my list of Most Suspicious because of it.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 08, 2020, 03:45:40 AM
No no, nobody defend me. I have 5 votes leveled against me. Let the host tell everyone my role. My death has been accepted.

And yes, people who have played werewolf with me know that this is what I do. You know who you are. You have no excuses. Soon everyone else will know as well.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 08, 2020, 03:49:34 AM
Just as a final piece of spite, I'm gonna Vote: Laurentus.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 08, 2020, 04:00:26 AM
I'm sorry, Aragonn. I'm not changing though. If you had chosen someone other than Hydra I might have found this more believable.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 08, 2020, 04:03:24 AM
We'll see who gets the last laugh.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Imaginative Kane on March 08, 2020, 04:31:14 AM
The way Gerrick voted has got me suspicious so I think I will actually vote to lynch Gerrick.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 08, 2020, 04:57:56 AM
I’m removing my vote.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Hydra on March 08, 2020, 05:48:44 AM
Alright, I think that everyone needs to take a step back and calm down. I've been away for a while and I see a couple pages of new posts, so I'm going to have to examine everything.
Mayhaps it actually is a member of House Valeria trying to cover their tracks.
I totally get why you think it might be a member of House Valeria. I do too.

As for Aragonn, IIRC, he's always super active during werewolf games, and defends himself in a fairly logical manner by pointing out Melehan's lack of evidence. It's true, both Aragonn and Melehan both don't have that much evidence to go on, but to be frank, that's the best we have. And his response to Melehan makes sense, as the best way to defend yourself is to find another suspect with more damning evidence. This is the way he plays, and he knows to vote for Valeria as he (correctly) has in previous games. Now he is Valeria himself and I'm not discounting that, but for now, I believe his input is an asset at this point.

In my opinion, Doc had an interesting Wintermoot theory that was fairly convincing. However, I don't like how he switched to Aragonn within minutes, but I totally understand if he missed something and just wanted to look back. However, I don't really get how he implicated Aragonn in the first place. All I saw was him voting such that Doc wouldn't be lynched first round as always. :P

Anyway, at this point my gut is still pointing toward a Valerian for murdering tau in cold blood, putting it either on Laurentus or Aragonn. Laurentus has been pushing hard to get Aragonn lynched, while the bandwagon on Aragonn has circumstantial evidence at best in my opinion. I don't see what Laurentus means by Aragonn "trying to distance himself from the Mathy kill". As I said before, I also still don't get how Doc implicated Aragonn in the first place. From there it's just been a chain of Melehan, Laurentus, Red Mones, and Gerrick, with Laurentus' vote placed (since he's always active) in a way that helps perpetuate the bandwagon (not too close to the beginning but not too close to the end to be accused of bandwagoning).

Therefore, here is my suspicious list in no particular order:
1. Laurentus (he's a Valerian)
2. Gerrick (voted jokingly without much explanation)
3. Wintermoot (Doc makes an interesting point)
4. Doc (but he's not acting on his points)
5. Melehan (reaction to Aragonn seems a bit off, but then again I'm not as familiar with their playstyle/reactions as I am with Aragonn's)
6. Aragonn (he's a Valerian)

I'm going to Vote: Laurentus. While he always plays actively and aggressively, he's a bit too deliberate in his actions, knowing the reactions he would get.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: El Fiji Grande on March 08, 2020, 05:51:36 AM
I really don't understand all the fuss about Aragonn. While Aragonn did choose to pile on HappySpin's joke Hydra vote, two votes that early in the day can hardly be understood to be a true pile. Moreover, some early movement makes sense in light of Laurentus' wise post that voting patterns help reveal allegiances. Doc's flip-flopping from Moot to Aragonn is understandable, given that there really wasn't anything else to go on. Aragonn getting a bit flustered about the vote strikes me as defensive, but not necessarily unreasonable. Had we switched his vote away from Hydra, I'd actually be more easily convinced that he's a wolf, given that such a move would be a clear attempt to distract attention from himself. Personally, I'd be more interested in hearing some analysis from @Aragonn what made him choose to vote Hydra in the first place.

Of anyone, I'm most suspicious of Melehan, actually. I agree with Aragonn that Melahan's reasoning about not wanting to see piles form was super hypocritical and ironic, given that that's exactly what just happened, when they joined Doc's vote on Aragonn. The next few posts were just Melehan and Aragonn becoming increasingly defensive, which should reflect poorly on both of them. Following Melehan's Aragonn vote, down went Laurentus, Red Mones, and Gerrick, though Red Mones did later retract their vote. I think it's incredibly likely that there's at least one wolf in the Aragonn pile, capitalizing on the flying accusations.

I will vote Melehan.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 08, 2020, 06:08:18 AM
Yes. The Aragonn vote wasn’t totally unreasonable, but the more I thought about it, the more I started to doubt. El Fiji your point about at least one wolf being on the pile also came to my mind, and it sort of pushed me over the edge. I was ready to jump on the bandwagon based on Lau’s point that we need to lynch somebody (he’s right). Aragonn was the popular choice, I ran with it. Now I’m thinking that wasn’t a very wise choice. Aragonn is definitely suspicious, but I’m not so sure he’s a wolf. He does seem to have a consistent play style that he seems to be following as well. For now I’ll wait to vote.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 08, 2020, 09:35:42 AM
Alright, I think that everyone needs to take a step back and calm down. I've been away for a while and I see a couple pages of new posts, so I'm going to have to examine everything.
Mayhaps it actually is a member of House Valeria trying to cover their tracks.
I totally get why you think it might be a member of House Valeria. I do too.

As for Aragonn, IIRC, he's always super active during werewolf games, and defends himself in a fairly logical manner by pointing out Melehan's lack of evidence. It's true, both Aragonn and Melehan both don't have that much evidence to go on, but to be frank, that's the best we have. And his response to Melehan makes sense, as the best way to defend yourself is to find another suspect with more damning evidence. This is the way he plays, and he knows to vote for Valeria as he (correctly) has in previous games. Now he is Valeria himself and I'm not discounting that, but for now, I believe his input is an asset at this point.

In my opinion, Doc had an interesting Wintermoot theory that was fairly convincing. However, I don't like how he switched to Aragonn within minutes, but I totally understand if he missed something and just wanted to look back. However, I don't really get how he implicated Aragonn in the first place. All I saw was him voting such that Doc wouldn't be lynched first round as always. :P

Anyway, at this point my gut is still pointing toward a Valerian for murdering tau in cold blood, putting it either on Laurentus or Aragonn. Laurentus has been pushing hard to get Aragonn lynched, while the bandwagon on Aragonn has circumstantial evidence at best in my opinion. I don't see what Laurentus means by Aragonn "trying to distance himself from the Mathy kill". As I said before, I also still don't get how Doc implicated Aragonn in the first place. From there it's just been a chain of Melehan, Laurentus, Red Mones, and Gerrick, with Laurentus' vote placed (since he's always active) in a way that helps perpetuate the bandwagon (not too close to the beginning but not too close to the end to be accused of bandwagoning).

Therefore, here is my suspicious list in no particular order:
1. Laurentus (he's a Valerian)
2. Gerrick (voted jokingly without much explanation)
3. Wintermoot (Doc makes an interesting point)
4. Doc (but he's not acting on his points)
5. Melehan (reaction to Aragonn seems a bit off, but then again I'm not as familiar with their playstyle/reactions as I am with Aragonn's)
6. Aragonn (he's a Valerian)

I'm going to Vote: Laurentus. While he always plays actively and aggressively, he's a bit too deliberate in his actions, knowing the reactions he would get.
This post makes zero sense to me.

Unless you are the Seer and can scan someone, your evidence is always going to be circumstantial.

What he was doing was, as I've already pointed out, not just merely defending himself, he tried to find another person to point the finger at. This is one thing about his meta that I do not remember him doing, and it rubs me wrong. I would hardly call the evidence for Melehan "more damning" than for Aragonn, either.

And then let's talk about your Doc point. Doc clearly said its because it was the second time that Aragonn had fallen on a bandwagon. This is not out of nowhere.

And yet still, I find it fascinating how this alleged error in judgement does not make Doc suspicious, but it does make me suspicious.

I mean, the distancing is plain to see with hindsight, as Aragonn immediately said he didn't get the Mathy kill. It's pretty well known that Mathy is a voice of reason, and again, much as with Tau, was not active enough to be on anyone's radars for a defence at night. This is something Aragonn must intrinsically have understood. It's precisely because Aragonn is so logical that this stood out like a sore thumb to me.

And then, of the two possible Valerian he could have gone for, he went for you instead of me? I always look objectively more scummy.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 08, 2020, 09:36:51 AM
I was trying to discredit the accusations leveled at me. End of story.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 08, 2020, 09:46:09 AM
Also

In case any of you hadn't noticed, I'm very much distanced from the region. I hardly know anyone's habits and abilities anymore. I mainly just remember those of my fellow Valerians. To insist that I knew perfectly well what Mathy would be able to do is like claiming a chimp can write comprehensive programming for a RTS.

And yes, you always are the scummier one. I figured the odds of you actually being a wolf were pretty low, so I didn't throw shade on you so quickly. I guess my calculations were faulty. Why is it you continue to press so hard even with my fate sealed? Could you actually be a wolf? I think it's much more likely than people think, brother.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 08, 2020, 09:50:49 AM
I will always push hard. Just ask Doc, Gerrick and Sapphiron. I won't stop until the round ends. And what's the alternative? Say nothing and then get asked why I didn't defend myself?

But anyway, before this drama gets out of hand, it's nothing personal, Aragonn. I believe you're a Wolf. That's just how this game rolled. I don't want it to cause a rift between us.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 08, 2020, 09:54:07 AM
You're not defending yourself. This has been a constant assault. And the game didn't roll this way. You've been directing it this whole day phase.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 08, 2020, 09:56:26 AM
I am defending myself. Did you not see Hydra's post? And to be sure, yes, I usually tend to lead the discussion. What I mean by "rolled this way" is that if you rolled Wolf, then there's really no other way this could have ended. The same would be true if I rolled wolf.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 08, 2020, 09:59:46 AM
What do you mean there's no other way this could have ended? No, you're not going to sit there and claim that you know I'm a wolf with absolute certainty on day 3 without being the seer. Not without being challenged.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 08, 2020, 10:05:03 AM
I've already said I'm not 100% sure. Nothing in this game is. I still think with the way you've behaved, I am more certain of you being the Wolf than anyone else.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 08, 2020, 10:10:50 AM
It's also highly beneficial for the wolves to take control over the daytime discourse. If suspicions are always led away from the wolves to targets the wolves deem dangerous, you get the benefits of no wolf getting targeted while you eliminate threats at twice the rate.

I know my fate is already sealed. I have 4 votes against me and nobody to come to my aid. But while I still draw breath, I will continue to speak.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 08, 2020, 10:25:35 AM
I should amend my statement. I have nobody else to come to my aid. Kane and Hydra have tried to help me.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 08, 2020, 07:57:08 PM
A lot of you seem to have missed that, at the time I voted for Aragonn, he was the one who started the wagon on Hydra by being the first second vote of the day AND that Aragonn was the first second vote on Day 1 as well. That is TWO wagons he was responsible for with minimal/no evidence or reasoning (Day 1 was ostensibly to keep Doc alive (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6406.msg144867#msg144867) while Day 3 is just a vague "trail of thought" (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6406.msg145109#msg145109)).

He's since changed his vote, but the fact that he's started two wagons still strikes me as extremely suspicious. Hence why I'm maintaining my vote for him.

With that said, there have been a few interesting points since brought up, such as how Lau has basically been guiding today's discussion and how Doc has not exactly been voting according to his stated observations. They're not enough to make me switch my vote to someone else since I still think Aragonn is the most suspicious thus far, but it's definitely something I'll be watching.

Assuming I survive tonight. I usually get killed around this point.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 08, 2020, 08:13:05 PM
Two votes isn't a wagon. Even if I was starting a wagon, nobody was hopping on board. You'd think the other wolves would hop on board to ensure the death of the target. Also, who ever has any evidence on day 1? That argument from you is weak af. And yes, I was going off my trail of thought on day 3. I had little to nothing that I saw other than a hunch that a Valerian was behind things. I had two to choose from and chose essentially at random. The fact that you find Laurentus scummy and find Doc highly suspect but refuse to move off of me says a lot about you.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Hydra on March 08, 2020, 08:14:00 PM
We'll end this phase on 3/7/2020 at 1:45AM PST.
Hey Pengu, I just wanted to check if this phase ends at 1:45 a.m. pacific standard time or daylight time.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 08, 2020, 08:25:30 PM
@Aragonn

Why were you starting a wagon on Day 1 instead of voting for someone who had no votes yet?

Why didn't you give any reasoning beyond the vague "trail of thought" when you became the second vote on Hydra?

Why did you accuse me of providing no reasoning for my vote when I provided a lot more reasoning than you did (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6406.msg145113#msg145113)?

Your responses to things have not been helping your case, particularly how you're all bluster and minimal reasoning.

Meanwhile, even though Fiji is pointing suspicion at me based on mistaken facts, at least there's a line of reasoning that can be followed. Though while I'm here, @El Fiji Grande, does the fact that Aragonn has been the first to pile more than once this game already change anything for you?
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 08, 2020, 08:33:38 PM
Again, I was playing the nice guy day 1. My big fat mistake. As for my Hydra vote, I can't explain it. It was a hunch. It was a guy feeling. And turns out my suspicions about a Valerian being wolf were right. It just wasn't the one that I thought.

As for your vote, the reasoning wasn't posted for people to see until after I challenged you. It was so vague and uninformative before that. And all I did was try to discredit you. Because yes, you looked hypocritical. At least on the surface.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 08, 2020, 08:57:11 PM
My reasoning was in my vote post. Perhaps not in fill gory detail, but it was still in my initial post, and I've since explained my reasons more in-depth.

You still haven't explained your reasons for voting Hydra except to say that you can't explain it, and apparently your only reason for voting Lau is out of spite. Neither of those non-reasons are helping your case.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 08, 2020, 09:16:44 PM
I gave my reason. You've refused to accept it. And if someone like me doesn't understand what you're trying to say, you didn't say it clearly.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 09, 2020, 03:04:54 AM
So what we have learned is that spring break does not equal more time for werewolf. It somehow means less. Argh.

That said, here are my top three scumspects based on gomeplay:

Aaragon: I can't really speak to his playstyle, but I didn't like when he piled on me for not good reason. I mean, piling on me is generally a good play as I tend to put my own foot in my mouth and become an easy target, but hey, this isn't about me, this is about the piling. He's been combative with Lau, which is also easy to do, but it makes me think he's hiding something, especially since Mel is reasonable if you're not dodging questions. I also kinda sorta think the Hydra thing is an elaborate bus. I mean, comes out of nowhere, gains traction, then is abandoned once he comes under attack.

El Fiji Grande: Was poked, responded weakly, went silent again, voted Melehan. Granted, when I hosted I had to poke them a lot too. This could just be standard fiji. However, the agreeing with Melehan and then attacking them for being too defensive seems a bit sketch. Seems like a play to get more people off of Aaragon. Now maybe they're being reasonable here and I'm not. But if Aaragon flips wolf, I'd take a good long look at fiji and hydra.

Laurentus: Mister push man. Pushed all day, and while that is very normal, seems like he pushed at the first person to do something even remotely sus. If Aaragon flips town, I'd want to push into Lau a bit more.

As to the wtf was that move list, we have

Kane! Why vote gerrick? You say he voted suspiciously. Seems to me like he was making a joke ot go with his vote. That said, the second person on this list is

Gerrick! Why did you vote like that? I'd like some more reasoning. Both of these people are not that sus yet, but definitely on the radar.

No one is on the clear list yet, so consider yourself appraised as neutral if you didn't make a list.

Also, Happyspin, thank you for the reaction test thing, very cool. Today doesn't seem like it would have fallen this way had you not given it the opportunity to pile and kick off.

Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 09, 2020, 03:14:52 AM
Oh good lord I forgot to vote. I also grossly misspelled Aragonn. So if anyone knows where I left my brain, please let me know. It's like I'm trying to make stupid plays now.

Vote: Aragonn
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 09, 2020, 03:19:10 AM
We'll end this phase on 3/7/2020 at 1:45AM PST.
Hey Pengu, I just wanted to check if this phase ends at 1:45 a.m. pacific standard time or daylight time.

Look at it more as exactly 48 hours from when that post was made in your time.  Currently it's almost 8:30 PM here, and the phase will end  at 1:45AM here, which is roughly 5 hours from now.

However, I realize DLS made us lose an hour, so it'll be pushed back to 2:45AM to give it the full 48 hours.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 09, 2020, 03:21:17 AM
Boy I do love me a good witch trial.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 09, 2020, 03:37:19 AM
The more people that jump on the bandwagon, the more I think there’s a wolf on board, but then again that keeps suspicion off of them if Aragonn turns out to be a wolf. I can’t in good conscience vote for Aragonn. But hey, this is werewolf, who has a good conscience? Vote: Aragonn. Sorry, Aragonn, but the info we get from you being lynched regardless of your side is something we need right now. I can’t not vote again, and looks like you’re fucked anyway.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 09, 2020, 03:59:05 AM
There's no such thing as a good conscience. All I can do is paint a target while the noose is being fitted.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Wintermoot on March 09, 2020, 04:14:06 AM
Well, for better or for worse, I do have a good conscience. It's that type 2 thing we discussed today on Discord. :P

Vote: Laurentus

I've been suspicious of the strange Laurentus-Doc alliance that formed apparently even at the beginning of the game, and it's obvious in this round they've taken control of the game. It's obvious that Doc wanted to target anybody he could attach a reason to (originally me, I guess for voicing my suspicions in the first round), but I guess Aragonn making a vote without a good reason is something that sticks a little better. But then comes Laurentus to drive the whole thing home, making vague accusations that Aragonn had tried to distance himself from the Mathy kill and concluding that "we've found our wolf" based on nothing more than an abrupt vote and his defensiveness. Then there's the bandwagoning, which in some cases is uncharacteristically gleeful like from Gerrick.

I could be wrong, but I don't think Aragonn would react the way he did unless he felt he was being wrongly accused. There's always the possibility that he's become a really great actor, in which case I've probably delivered myself to the wolves (or suspicious villagers) on a silver platter, but this is how I feel and I'm going to stick up for him on this one. I've been suspicious of Doc and Laurentus since round 1...I initially lumped Aragonn in that group too, but now we see who is driving the game.


Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Hydra on March 09, 2020, 04:29:27 AM
I implore you all to reconsider, even though one (or more, see below) of you is probably a wolf. @Red Mones @Doc @Melehan @El Fiji Grande @Ruguo @HappySpin @Imaginative Kane @Gerrick

Nonetheless, I have come to accept that my words will probably mean nothing. Therefore, by standing up for Aragonn, I understand that I have painted a huge target on my back that Laurentus will surely act upon.

Here's my new suspicious list based off the events that have transpired and more time to think:
1. Laurentus (I've said enough)
2. El Fiji Grande (Ruguo makes a good point about flipping. Based off Laurentus' past wolf actions, this seems like something Laurentus would direct as a thinly veiled attempt to hide a wolf among saving town to ensure a victory. This vanity wagon, especially after the wagon on Aragonn has already started, strikes as suspicious to me)
3. HappySpin (has been awfully quiet ever since starting their vote for me; with all that's happened, a townie would usually contribute more, especially one with the knowledge to perform a reaction test)
4. Gerrick (just please explain your vote)
5. Doc (this alliance...)

Nevertheless, whoever gets lynched will give us more information. I just hope we're making the right choice this time.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 09, 2020, 04:49:05 AM
Every time I walk into one of these games I think, "I've played some more games, I'll do better this time". Day 1 comes around and I think, "Oh yeah, this isn't too bad". By day 3 I remember what all those past games were like. I don't know what the hell I'm doing, I'm waayyyyy in over my head. I guess that's just all part of the game. My gut is telling me Aragonn is innocent. I'm gonna switch my vote yet again, and Vote: Laurentus.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 09, 2020, 04:50:32 AM
Thank yourself, Hydra. You're half the reason I changed my vote.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 09, 2020, 05:27:04 AM
Enter: midnight brain. Somehow the most logical part of me.

At this point, someone needs to die for information. Either flip, we have our targets. I don't like the Hydra plea. It seems like a desperate play to get the last wolf off the wagon so you can misdirect. I don't like mones flopping around. I have to stick with the gun I'm holding now and see how this ends. There is no other option, as the rest of the wagon isn't going to be on in time. So I'm sorry, Hydra, Aragonn, this is how it has to be. I'll be the first on the Lau wagon if this is wrong, the second on Doc if that forms, though I don't quite understand it. Information is information.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 09, 2020, 05:42:14 AM
Umm, I voted for Aragonn because he admitted to being a wolf...

Seriously, though, Aragonn has been cast as The Most Suspicious. If anyone else is lynched before him, all conversations will just go back to him still being the most suspicious. His fate is sealed, and so he must die for us to get the most useful information on how others have acted.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 09, 2020, 05:45:09 AM
You act on a gut feeling, people pile on you. You try to defend yourself like a normal person would, people get convinced they have the right target. Yeah, this isn't the game for me anymore. I'm okay with dying. But at least I know my death won't be in vain.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 09, 2020, 06:31:54 AM
the strange Laurentus-Doc alliance
5. Doc (this alliance...)
I really don't know how this 'alliance' is so suspicious.
But just so we're clear on where it stems from, it's here (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6393.msg144788#msg144788) (i.e. days before the game started), and concluded the moment we hit day 3.
Today, I obviously haven't been at odds with Lau because we're targeting the same person, but there's little to no certainty this won't immediately cease to be the case the moment we tick over into day 4.
the second on Doc if that forms, though I don't quite understand it. Information is information.
How have I gone from 'not on the top 3 scumspect' list and 'not making a wtf move' to being your second most desirable target?
how Doc has not exactly been voting according to his stated observations
I mean, I'm super glad we're discounting my second set of observations, which are what started the Aragonn wagon in the first place...
The origins of this weird notion that I've not been voting my observations are this post (https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6406.msg145162#msg145162) Hydra made, which essentially says 'I don't follow the reasoning' rather than 'he observes one thing then votes another'.

Now that instinctive defensiveness is over, here's a votecount and some quick-and-dirty analysis.
Hydra (Happyspin, Aragonn) (1 at present)
Aragonn (Me, Melehan, Laurentus, Red Mones (Vote 1), Gerrick, Ruguo, Red Mones (Vote 2 after withdrawing vote)) (5 at present)
Laurentus (Aragonn, Hydra, Wintermoot, Red Mones (Vote 3)) (4 at present)
Gerrick (Kane) (1 at present)
Melehan (Fiji) (1 at present)
(Everyone has voted!!!)

Observations:
1. On the basis of his flip-floppiness, I've some confidence that Mones isn't a power role of any kind, nor has he been contacted by the Seer.
2. Considering the alarmingly quick aboutface the dogpile has taken, I'm no longer confident that Aragonn is a wolf. If he was, the other wolves would have leapt onto the opportunity to wagon his ass...but only after there was confidence that the villagers thought he was a wolf, implying a 7-8 person wagon, not a 5-man one.
Which suggests the wolves instead leapt on the first villager wagon that became really plausible. That fits, imo, with Gerrick's (incredibly poorly reasoned) vote coming in after Mones in an obvious bandwagon.

Crazy theory time. Something about the abruptness of the turn and its defensiveness would ordinarily make me think that Aragonn, Hydra, and Moot are, in fact, the Seer and his Seer Squad. The sole problem with this theory is Aragonn voted for Hydra first.
The theory I'm actually satisfied with is that Wintermoot and Hydra are part of a Seer Squad, linking up night one, and one of them scanned Lau last night, finding him to be a wolf. There's suspicion pinned on me by virtue of 'the alliance', and would be on Aragonn by virtue of the first day's 'alliance' voting pattern, except the fact that the 'alliance' turned on him indicates either the most aggressive bussing on the planet, long before any meaningful suspicion ever existed, or that he was never a wolf to begin with.
I'm calling all my role reads now, mostly so that if I'm like 60% right in the end I can look back and tell myself I'm amazing.
I think Laurentus, Gerrick, and Ruguo are our wolves; I think Wintermoot is the Seer; I think he's contacted Hydra; I think Mones, me, Aragonn, Fiji, and HappySpin are uncontacted villagers, and I think Kane and Melehan are our Defenders. (Note for posterity, future me: I'm pretty much making up the defender list, I have no actual idea).

Oh, and most importantly, Vote: Laurentus to flip it from 5:4 Aragonn to 5:4 Laurentus.

EDIT: Yes, I edited my post, major suspicious move, but seriously I typoed so many times, I'm sorry, it's a long fuckin post and I'm tired okay
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 09, 2020, 06:55:02 AM
Very wow. Much amaze.

You guys deserve to lose.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 09, 2020, 06:58:23 AM
Wow. I didn't even steep that low. Come now, brother. Don't be like that.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 09, 2020, 09:50:48 AM
Alrighty folks, the Day Phase has ended!

And after tallying the votes, it ends with 5 votes toward Laurentus, 4 votes for Aragonn (and 3 towards other players).

Laurentus has been chosen by the villagers to be lynched.

And what a great way to turn things around, because Laurentus was in fact a Werewolf!

Congrats on your first werewolf kill folks!

Now, let us dive into our 3rd Night Phase.  Power roles, send me your PM choices for the night.

I'll also be ending this phase a bit past 24 hours, since 3AM is quite a bit early to be ending phases.  So, the night phase will end at March 10th at 1PM PST or in exactly 34 hours and 10 minutes from this post, or when all of the power roles have sent in their choices...whichever hits first.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 09, 2020, 10:04:45 AM
DEAD

Well played, guys. :)

Sorry for the theatrics there at the end.

Best of luck, Wolf team.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 09, 2020, 01:03:00 PM
I was asleep for all of that, but wow, what a reversal!

I would like to note that I'm not a Defender. I also have different suspicions about who the Seer might be, but we'll have to see if they pan out.

Also, *squints at those edits*.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 09, 2020, 01:43:56 PM
I'd like to note that I read Doc's message before it was edited, and all that changed was a bit more detail put in.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 09, 2020, 04:34:53 PM
Laurentus was in fact a Werewolf!
the fucking reaaaaaaaads
Also, *squints at those edits*.
Yeah, making edits like that is, on the one hand, not brilliant, but in my defense I'd really like to point out that, given our current info that Laurentus was scum, if we also assume I'm scum, that means there's a 1/10 chance Aragonn is also scum (9 non-scum roles and 1 wolf role still being alive). If that were the case, I gave up a has-basically-already-happened 90% chance to kill a non-scum in favor of killing my fellow scum in order to make the most insane bus play of all time.
And this ignores the reality that Aragonn's likelihood of being scum is rather lower than 90%, given exactly how hard Laurentus, now proven to be scum, went in on him.
I think 'Doc is not scum' can just be assumed at this point considering the immensity of that flip, regardless of how many times I edit posts for the rest of this game.

(I'm probably going to die tonight, that was honestly kinda too huge)
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Wintermoot on March 09, 2020, 04:43:08 PM
I think 'Doc is not scum' can just be assumed at this point considering the immensity of that flip, regardless of how many times I edit posts for the rest of this game.
Not so fast! It's entirely possible that you're a wolf who flipped and threw Laurentus under the bus to save yourself from further scrutiny. And now you're quick to say that we should do just that...
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 09, 2020, 04:58:40 PM
How have I gone from 'not on the top 3 scumspect' list and 'not making a wtf move' to being your second most desirable target?
I blame midnight brain. It was out for blood. I have learned I have three modes depending on when I post. Midnight brain has written the majority of my best logic, but has a serious problem with foot-in-mouthing me. 2am brain is good for going completely unfiltered stream of consciousness and had created some of my best ideas. Leaving normal brain to try and mitigate the fallout of those two during the day. So now normal brain will attempt to explain midnight brain's reasoning behind that: I saw the doc-Lau alliance. There were two possibilities: two wolves, or one wolf puling a villager down like I went for last game. So I threw a poke in at Doc to see how he would respond. And respond did he, in an edited post? I kid, of course. But I feel better about him seeing that reaction wasn't the instant 'I'm not a wolf' defensive. Please don't die tonight. I want to include you in my updated list tomorrow.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 09, 2020, 05:03:34 PM
Again, I'd like to reiterate:
If we assume I'm a wolf, and Lau is a wolf, that means that of the 10 other players, there is a 1/10 chance that each of them is a wolf.
This means I flipped from a sure-thing lynch of someone who had a 1/10 chance of being a wolf (to the extent that Hydra, Ruguo, Gerrick, and Aragonn himself were all acting as if it had basically already happened), to a lynch of someone who was definitely a wolf.

Mathematically, that's incredibly stupid, because that call changes the makeup of the game from 3/10 wolves/total to 2/10 tomorrow (assuming the wolves successfully night-kill).
3/10 wolves means they're in a much stronger position to drive a mislynch like we most likely almost saw during this day phase; they only need 2 other players to wagon with them, and victory is mathematically possible by Day 5.
2/10 wolves weakens their ability to drive a mislynch, and much more crucially, victory is delayed by at least one full day, which is also very bad for them since the Seer role and both defender roles are still in play, meaning it's much more likely their victory is delayed to at least Day 7.

If I was a wolf, I'm gambling a 1-2 day delayed victory with less margin for error, meaning more time to accrue information for all parties (which is increasingly bad for wolves) on the off-chance that I won't just be scanned by the Seer after making a bus play of such insane magnitude.

Frankly the only reason I could see that you would think I'm still a wolf is that you're totally convinced that "The Alliance" was a 100% for reals bona-fide alliance, instead of being the 'Lau and Doc won't kill each other till at least Day 3' that it was. And I'm not sure how it's possible for me to point out the latter was the case in any more convincing ways short of either us winning the game together, or me winding up dead and Pengu saying 'Doc was in fact a villager' upon revealing my demise.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 09, 2020, 05:34:50 PM
I don't know, Doc, something crazy like this I wouldn't put past you and Laurentus. If Aragonn was lynched and turned out to be town, wolves would have likely gotten their night kill, and Lau would be lynched the next day. You'd be saving Lau one more day, which doesn't matter because how many wolves there are doesn't affect the chances of getting your kill, but now Doc has a rock solid defense. Think of it this way: By night 4, they wolves have 2 wolves left and they got their night kill, or night 4, wolves got their night 3 kill, but Doc has a solid defense.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 09, 2020, 05:42:04 PM
Scenario 1: Day 3, Aragonn lynched -> Night 3, Wolves likely get their kill -> Day 4, Laurentus gets lynched -> end result (night 4), 2 wolves

Scenario 2: Day 3, Doc ensures Laurentus gets lynched -> Night 3, wolves likely get their kill -> Day 4, ??? -> end result (night 4), 2 wolves, Doc has a great defense

You waited last minute to vote Doc. You were the deciding vote. You may have realized what was happening, people saw through Laurentus and he had lost his usefulness as a wolf. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but this is the kind of play I would expect from you Doc.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 09, 2020, 05:42:45 PM
Didn't mean for that emoticon to be there. :P
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 09, 2020, 06:36:19 PM
Damn, considering all this flak I'm catching, maybe I'll survive the night after all only to wind up lynched tomorrow...
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 09, 2020, 07:23:55 PM
Well that's not much of a defense... :P Like I said I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's see what happens tonight.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 10, 2020, 12:18:50 AM
Well that's not much of a defense... :P Like I said I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's see what happens tonight.
Wasn't meant to be a defense, just slightly aggrieved self-pity. I genuinely figured I'd literally be the safest bet on the planet right now, and being told I'm still apparently hella suspicious, not in spite of but because of what I thought was a major play-of-the-game moment, is kinda grating on me.
Which, y'know, not a knock on you guys or anything, suspicion is the name of the game, but man, it's driving me kinda crazy.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 10, 2020, 03:38:42 PM
This night phase feels like it's taking an eternity. The anticipation and anxiety is real.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 10, 2020, 07:31:29 PM
I mean, it's longer than normal night phases, that's probably why.  :p

Anyways I'm going to go ahead and end it since everyone has posted.

This night, there was yet another murder.

Aragonn, a Defender was killed by the Werewolves (I guess you could say the anticipation was killing him).

Time for another Day Phase!

So now the good guys are down a power role.  Hopefully you guys can recover from this.  Now it's time to discuss and vote and hopefully catch another wolf!

This Day Phase will end on 3/12/2020 at 12:30PM PST, or roughly48 hours from this post.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 10, 2020, 07:34:54 PM
Well, that explains a lot. So since defenders know who each other are, we need to look at who was pushing hard against the aragonn lynch to find the other one. I'm thinking Hydra. Which means I gotta go revise my list again.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Aragonn on March 10, 2020, 07:44:22 PM
DEAD

My task was completed. I may rest in peace.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 10, 2020, 08:28:31 PM
@Gerrick you’ve been awfully quiet.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Imaginative Kane on March 10, 2020, 09:19:33 PM
That is a worrying death.  Now to see other conversations before voicing my suspicions.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 10, 2020, 09:42:01 PM
@Gerrick you’ve been awfully quiet.
Yeah, I work long hours on the weekends, and my wife took today off, so I haven't had much of a chance to really go back and reread in a bit. But I should be able to later this evening and come up with a suspicion list.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 11, 2020, 02:49:24 AM
Ok, went back through it all. Both reread the thread and read each person's posts through their profiles. Here's my suspicion list.

1. Ruguo: D1 voted Doc; D2 voted self (after pointing out that nobody had voted and then several others already voted for themselves); D3 voted Aragonn. Had a long analysis on the N1 kill (taulover), which seemed kinda fake to me. Talks a lot about possibility of accidentally saying something wrong, which seems like they're just trying to preemptively cover their tracks in the case that they do say something revealing. Somehow knew either Doc and/or Laurentus was a wolf, though they now don't believe Doc is a wolf because of their reaction test (and not the fact that Doc helped kill Laurentus)? Their posts just read strangely to me, given the info we know so far (Laurentus wolf, Aragonn town).

2. HappySpin: Very inactive. D1 vote for self; D2 did not post/vote; D3 voted for Hydra (almost certainly town) and said we need to lynch to see voting patterns -- why hadn't they voted to lynch anyone prior? Claimed to be an experienced Werewolf player yet hasn't shown off anything -- methinks they're just trying to lay low.

3. Kane: D1 did not post/vote; D2 vote for self; D3 sorta defended Aragonn but then didn't vote alongside him for Laurentus who had the second most number of votes (voted for me instead since "the way I voted has got him suspicious"). Hasn't really been taking a stance on anything (besides his vote for me last day phase). Seems like he's trying to do anything but rock the boat.

4. El Fiji Grande: Very inactive. D1 did not post/vote; D2 did not vote; D3 sorta defended Aragonn but then didn't vote alongside him for Laurentus who had the second most number of votes (voted for Melehan instead).

5. Melehan: D1 voted self; D2 did not post/vote; D3 went pretty hard in voting for Aragonn, which at first seems very suspicious since Laurentus was a wolf, but to me it just seems a little too conspicuous a play for him to also be a wolf.

6. Doc: Wouldn't put it past Laurentus to sacrifice himself to ensure Doc's innocence, but I don't think that's the case (but then again, I believed Laurentus to be town, too, so I don't know -- hence why he's still on the list).

Not suspicious: Wintermoot, Hydra, Red Mones

Not at all certain (got a 33% chance of choosing a wolf), but here we go. Vote: Ruguo
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 11, 2020, 03:13:01 AM
*looks at that gigantic target being painted on Hydra*

o___o
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 11, 2020, 04:35:57 AM
That's a great analysis, Gerrick, and I think I agree with you on Ruguo, but I'll hold off on voting for now. @HappySpin, @El Fiji Grande, anything to say?
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 11, 2020, 04:39:31 AM
@Gerrick, you voted for Aragonn as well with little to no explanation. Surely you didn't actually believe he was admitting to being a wolf?
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Wintermoot on March 11, 2020, 06:08:38 AM
Right now, my main suspicions are Doc and Gerrick.

Doc I believed I at least touched on last night. He's the person who first selected Aragonn for lynching last round, flipped to voting for Laurentus when suspicion was starting to cast their way, then almost immediately after the phase started taking credit for exposing a wolf. He even went so far as to say "I think 'Doc is not scum' can just be assumed at this point considering the immensity of that flip". He obviously wants to be given a pass for the rest of the game...is he truly the hero of the round, or did he throw his fellow wolf off the bus to save himself from further scrutiny? Methinks you doth praise thyself too much.

On the other hand, for the first two rounds Gerrick casts seemingly random votes for other people at a time when many people were voting for themselves. Perhaps that by itself isn't horribly suspicious, but then in the last round he absolutely latches onto the Aragonn pile with an uncharacteristic glee, acting completely certain that Aragonn was the wolf when, as we know now, he really wasn't.

Interestingly enough, Doc thinks Gerrick is a wolf. They both think Ruguo is a wolf. I suppose that means they both would like us to vote them off this round, though Doc hasn't voted yet to confirm that (I'm going off his post last round where he switched his vote to Laurentus). Gerrick has already posted his thoughts...I will wait to hear from Doc and Ruguo before voting this round. But that's where my thoughts are at the moment.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: El Fiji Grande on March 11, 2020, 06:21:13 AM
I think what's important is to look back at who was pushing for Aragonn's lynching. It's not much to go off of, but it's all I feel we have. The people voting Aragonn were: Doc, Melehan, Laurentus, Red Mones, Gerrick, and Ruguo. I'm not sure if there could be two wolves in that pile (one being Laurentus, of course), but it strikes me that we should give these votes closer examination.

Doc was early to the party voting on Aragonn, but flipped at the last minute to catch Laurentus. I dismiss the thinking of others that such a move could be a false-flag move to decrease suspicion on Doc. The odds of this strategy paying off would be exceptionally low.

Melehan was an adamant Aragonn voter, and became quite defensive when I initially raised my suspicion of him. I understand his earlier point that Aragonn was the second vote on two different stacks, but Melehan was completely dismissive that the same was true of him. My argument to vote against him yesterday was founded in that reasoning. Given how hard he went on Aragonn, I continue to have reason to suspect him.

Red Mones gave very little reasoning for his Aragonn vote, simply stating that many others had been suspicious of Aragonn, leading him to Agree. He later retracted the vote based on my reasoning that the Aragonn pile likely contained at least one wolf, but then re-voted for Aragonn on the idea that it would at least provide information.

Gerrick voted jokingly at first, and did not retract it, though he later explained that Aragonn's fate was sealed, prompting him to remain on target much like Red Mones. But while Red Mones wavered in his thinking, Gerrick's 'joke' vote provided him cover. Maybe that was intentional.

Ruguo's vote for Aragonn was based on revenge for having previously voted against him, and seemed based more on that emotion than on actual reasoning. He explains Aragonn's combativeness as a reflection of Laurentus, which I think holds water, but then jumps to the conclusion that Aragonn must have been hiding something. I suppose he was...

Based on that analysis, I'd say the ranking of suspicion of these players is, with 1 being most suspicious:
1. Gerrick
2. Melehan
3. Ruguo

I will vote Gerrick.

Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 11, 2020, 06:34:39 AM
Great analysis as well, but I just want to clarify some small things. You stated, “He later retracted the vote based on my reasoning”. While this is technically correct, I just want to clarify I retracted my vote nearly a full hour before your post, and mentioned the idea that there may be a wolf on the bandwagon contributed to my retraction. I had doubts about the arguments for lynching Aragonn as well. I also voted for Laurentus in the end.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 11, 2020, 12:06:14 PM
Melehan was an adamant Aragonn voter, and became quite defensive when I initially raised my suspicion of him. I understand his earlier point that Aragonn was the second vote on two different stacks, but Melehan was completely dismissive that the same was true of him. My argument to vote against him yesterday was founded in that reasoning. Given how hard he went on Aragonn, I continue to have reason to suspect him.
1) Yesterday was the FIRST time I was the second vote in a stack. That's not the same as being the second vote in a stack twice early in the game with no provided reasoning. Yet you keep making it out like I'm hiding a second stack vote and provided no reasons for my votes, neither of which are true.

2) I was really pushing for Aragonn in part because he was really pushing for me. He even stated that he was trying to discredit me. If anyone had reasons to be suspicious of Aragonn that day, it was me. Interestingly enough, after Lau got the majority of votes and was revealed to be a wolf, Aragonn backed off and became a lot less defensive.

3) I was asleep when all the really interesting stuff went down, so it wasn't like I could have changed my vote then.

With that said, with how Fiji has been using the same faulty reasoning to try to paint me as a wolf since D3, how he's the one who propsed that the other two wolves were in on the pile (which I find unlikely this early in the game), and how killing Aragonn essentially places suspicion onto everyone who voted for Aragonn while deflecting it away from everyone else, Fiji tops my list of suspicious persons.

I'm going to wait and see what everyone else has to say though before casting my vote.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: El Fiji Grande on March 11, 2020, 01:06:05 PM
To clarify, I wasn't presenting my analysis of those who voted for Aragonn yesterday as an end-all-be-all list of everyone whom I'm suspicious of. It's a logical flaw to say that that analysis shifts blame away from people who voted differently yesterday, as I think it's incredibly unlikely that all three wolves were part of the pile on Aragonn. Naturally, there's at least one other person floating around. Simply put, as multiple people have mentioned, analyzing voting patterns can provide useful information, and given that this was a close, major vote, I believed it to be worthy of closer inspection.

Moreover, Melehan, I said in my post that I already understand your first point; placing additional emphasis on it now only reinforces my point about how dismissive you are of that irony. That's all. And to your point 3, I've got work from 8 - 17 and typically sleep from 22 - 7, so I also don't have a whole lot of time to revise my statements. And Red Mones - point taken; sorry I missed your last vote switch. I think if anything that would make you more believably innocent.

Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 11, 2020, 04:52:04 PM
@Gerrick, you voted for Aragonn as well with little to no explanation. Surely you didn't actually believe he was admitting to being a wolf?
No, that was obviously a joke reason for voting for him, but his "admission" could very well have been a way to make people feel guilty and vote/change votes away from him as that's a common defense tactic. And I stand by my reasoning that lynching him would have given very useful info (which you yourself agreed with before retracting your vote) as when it's down to two suspicious people attacking each other, one of them dying gives a wealth of info and pretty strong indicators. I also had not been paying all that much attention since there were only 2 days in which mostly everyone voted for themselves (something I don't think I'll ever do in a game since it gives nothing to go off), so I wrongly leaned towards Laurentus' logic as well as the others who were also voting Aragonn rather than Aragonn himself.

On the other hand, for the first two rounds Gerrick casts seemingly random votes for other people at a time when many people were voting for themselves. Perhaps that by itself isn't horribly suspicious, but then in the last round he absolutely latches onto the Aragonn pile with an uncharacteristic glee, acting completely certain that Aragonn was the wolf when, as we know now, he really wasn't.
As I said before, I don't think I'll ever/have ever voted for myself/no lynch. I had (apparently wrongly) thought it's been well agreed that voting no lynch is just a way for the wolves to kill at night without much to go on during the day. Also, I did not "act completely certain that Aragonn was the wolf". At first I gave a joking reason to vote with the Aragonn wagon since I thought the reasoning by others had been pretty well laid out. When asked to clarify, I said that regardless of whether or not Aragonn is a wolf, his death would give us info on who likely is (since that's the game). At the point of my vote, Aragonn had by far the most votes, and it was not until later that there was a counter-bandwagon against Laurentus -- if I had changed my vote at the last minute to kill Laurentus and he was a town, I think it would've made me and Aragonn look 100% like wolves, and since Laurentus didn't seem any more a wolf than Aragonn, the risk didn't seem worth it.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 11, 2020, 05:42:30 PM
Yes, I will be joining the Gerrick wagon, but first hear me out as to why. This is not an OMGUS vote, if it was I would have let 2am brain do this.

Scumspects:

Gerrick: You were silent up until this round, latching on to the Aragonn train on a joke and then refusing to move. You claim you were busy, but you suddenly have enough time to attack and rebuttal now, as if the main antagonizer of your group is gone and someone had to step up. You accusations at me seem like a mismosh of accusations that people have thrown at me in the past, hoping something hits and sticks. I did not somehow know Lau was a wolf, what gave you that idea? I had him as a scumspect, and doc as a scumspect IF and hinging on IF lau was a wolf.

Mones: Gut says something is wrong here. You're agreeing with everyone, flopping around a bit too much. Gerrick makes a good point about kane not really taking a stand on anything, but you're doing the same. Given what I can remember from playing with you before, you aren't usually this agreeable. It's as if you're trying to come off as a follower. I don't like it, I don't trust it, please form some opinions of your own.

Neutrals:

Doc: I don't trust you, I want to look into you more, but there is no real reason not to trust you right now. Problem being there is no real reason to trust you, either.

Melehan: I got no strong opinion on them. Just melehan being melehan.

Fiji: Mild distrust at this point, calls my plays based on emotion. They were based on midnight brain, mostly, but fair points. Don't like the subtle targeting of other players you seem to be weaving into your posts. Neutral status hinges on your willingness to vote Gerrick, who is not sitting right with me at all. Could be a bus play though... I have no idea why I'm keeping you in this section other than gut, actually.

Moot: No good reason to distrust, no good reason to trust. I like his logic though.

Safe:

Hydra: Enough said

If I forgot you, I don't have enough from you to even place you at this point. I think Happyspin and Kane fall into that hole.

You now have my thoughts. Please ask questions if you have them. I realize I am only human and will probably have made some logic errors.

Vote: Gerrick
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 11, 2020, 06:59:07 PM
I mean, Tuesdays and Wednesdays are my weekends, so that's why I have more time. Plus there's actually stuff happening and info to go off since people have finally decided to start voting...

And if Ruguo still has no reason to trust Wintermoot and Red Mones as being town (yet at the same time don't think Kane is particularly suspicious given the exact same reasoning as Mones), then I don't know how anyone could be confident they aren't a wolf.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 11, 2020, 06:59:33 PM
Snip
Mones: Gut says something is wrong here. You're agreeing with everyone, flopping around a bit too much. Gerrick makes a good point about kane not really taking a stand on anything, but you're doing the same. Given what I can remember from playing with you before, you aren't usually this agreeable. It's as if you're trying to come off as a follower. I don't like it, I don't trust it, please form some opinions of your own.
There's a reason I'm not on anybody's suspicion list. I'm not even low on their lists, I'm not even on them. There is a very good reason for that. We have played together before, which means you should also know that I'm not nearly good enough at this to be playing some super secret 4D chess wolf game where I make everyone think I'm a villager because of my uncertainty. My posts were very much tracking my real-time thought process. Also, you say I'm agreeing with everybody, and I'm not playing consistently with my play style? I initially voted against Aragonn, so you would be correct in that case, but I removed my vote independent of everybody else, re-voted independent of everybody else, and then voted Lau (Hydra did contribute). That's hardly much of anything to go off of. Secondly, I'm not playing consistently, but I've also played werewolf with almost everybody else in this round, most of them, multiple times. At least one person should have noticed, yet nobody thinks of me as suspicious. You hardly defended yourself against Gerrick, rather you moved the suspicion on to me? The second least suspicious person in this game? You're currently at the top of my scum list, and therefore I Vote: Ruguo.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 11, 2020, 07:00:40 PM
You ninja'd me there, Gerrick. :P But yeah, I think we got our wolf.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 11, 2020, 07:22:18 PM
DEAD

Hey, guys. To help the uninitiated, I highly recommend you link to what certain jargon means when you use it. For example, the OMGUS (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Oh_My_God_You_Suck) jargon.

I might just attach an easily accessible link somewhere at some point.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Hydra on March 12, 2020, 12:52:07 AM
Sorry I'm late to the conversation. This week has hit me harder than I imagined and will be busy for the time being.

Here's my thoughts so far:

Gerrick: Nothing seems off in my book so far. His initial vote for Aragonn was a joke vote (unfortunately), but sticking to it throughout the end despite my pleas is a reasonable move to make given that it really was going to be a game of blind trust to see if he should vote for Aragonn or Laurentus. Either way would've given us more information to work with and that is ultimately what we needed.

Doc: If I was a wolf, I would've just kept silent and let Aragonn be lynched. Even though it ultimately may lead to the same result (Laurentus getting lynched this round), it allows Laurentus more time to deliberate targets, possible power roles, etc. It doesn't seem like a play Laurentus would make to ensure innocence, especially so last minute.

Red Mones: Going off train of thought makes sense. For now. The constant flipping makes him too wolfy to be a wolf at this point in my book.

El Fiji Grande: Interesting analysis to point towards Gerrick. Not sure if I'm buying it just yet. Why weren't you this analytical/active in previous rounds? As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't like your vote for Melehan. Based off Laurentus' past wolf games, this vote seems like something Laurentus would direct to hide a wolf. This vanity wagon strikes as suspicious to me.

Ruguo: No huge bells are going off for me just yet. @Gerrick Could you elaborate on "Somehow knew either Doc and/or Laurentus was a wolf"? Just like Gerrick, makes sense to stick to the gut to gain information. Not sure if I would've trusted my own reasoning/pleas either.

Kane: Seems alright for now. As Gerrick stated, seems to be trying not to rock the boat.

Wintermoot: Seems like a townie. Stuck up for Aragonn and saw through Laurentus' actions which thankfully was the right choice. I can't discount that it may be a ploy to hide among town though.

HappySpin: As mentioned in my previous post, they've been has been awfully quiet ever since starting their vote for me. As an "experienced player," with all that's happened, a townie would usually contribute more, especially one who wanted to perform a reaction test on me. Why didn't you act on this reaction test? Why didn't you vote differently after all the events between Laurentus and Aragonn unfolded? There's just too many questions.

Melehan: Voting and reasoning was interesting to follow. However, given Aragonn's accusations, I don't blame you. Then again, I don't really know how you play, and if Ruguo says it's just Melehan being Melehan, I'll let that be for now.

Thus, I will Vote: El Fiji Grande. Their actions (and timing of actions in the previous round), coupled with burst of activity this round, just seem to be something that Laurentus would direct.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 12, 2020, 01:20:18 AM
@Gerrick Could you elaborate on "Somehow knew either Doc and/or Laurentus was a wolf"?
How have I gone from 'not on the top 3 scumspect' list and 'not making a wtf move' to being your second most desirable target?
I blame midnight brain. It was out for blood. I have learned I have three modes depending on when I post. Midnight brain has written the majority of my best logic, but has a serious problem with foot-in-mouthing me. 2am brain is good for going completely unfiltered stream of consciousness and had created some of my best ideas. Leaving normal brain to try and mitigate the fallout of those two during the day. So now normal brain will attempt to explain midnight brain's reasoning behind that: I saw the doc-Lau alliance. There were two possibilities: two wolves, or one wolf puling a villager down like I went for last game. So I threw a poke in at Doc to see how he would respond. And respond did he, in an edited post? I kid, of course. But I feel better about him seeing that reaction wasn't the instant 'I'm not a wolf' defensive. Please don't die tonight. I want to include you in my updated list tomorrow.
The bolding is my emphasis. Ruguo discounted the possibility that they could've both been town. Plus, if they knew that at least one of them was a wolf, why did they vote along with both of them for Aragonn?
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Imaginative Kane on March 12, 2020, 02:08:24 AM
The current vote count that I can see seems to be:
(2) Gerrick: El Fiji Grande, Ruguo
(2) Ruguo: Gerrick, Red Mones
(2) El Fiji Grande: Hydra, myself

I probably won't have time to vote tonight so I will cast a vote now.  I feel like a three way tie may be better than a clear majority vote right now so I will add my vote to El Fiji Grande.

My own suspicions are as follows:

I am suspicious of all 3 of these players although they also seem to be putting up pretty good defenses which is why I am fine with leaving it up to RNG in this case.  I don't necessarily see unusual voting as suspicious which lessens my suspicions of Gerrick while he did at least acknowledge that his vote was for more of a joke reason but I still have some sneaking suspicion in the back of my head of you (a gut feeling really).

Ruguo: This is a gut feeling suspicion that I am actually slightly more suspicious of you than Gerrick even though I can't think of many reasons to be suspicious of you at the moment.

Red Mones: Yes you have been switching your votes which normally doesn't make you all that suspicious in my view; at least you are more active in this game than some of the others I have seen you playing in.  You are suspicious to me, because even though you are far more active than in the other game, this is starting to remind me of that Game of Thrones Werewolf when you were a werewolf at the wall.  I will have to see more to know whether or not you are that suspicious which is also part of the reason I am not voting to lynch you right now.

El Fiji Grande: While I haven't been very active either, your inactivity and subsequent activity are edging on my gut feeling suspicions.  Maybe over the weekend, I will have a more coherent reasoning behind voting for you aside from trusting the RNG system.

HappySpin: I have the same reasons that others have listed to be suspicious of you.

Players I frankly have no idea about in terms of suspicion or I am sure are on the town's side:
Wintermoot
Melehan
Doc
Hydra

Also it would be nice to see what @Doc has to say about everything that is being said and happening.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 12, 2020, 04:55:34 AM
Also @HappySpin
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: HappySpin on March 12, 2020, 04:59:13 AM
Hm, it seems everyone is suspicious of me simply because I've been quiet - don't worry, I am here, and ever a part of the game. I agree with much of y'all's assessment, but not all of them.

My top suspicions list:

Kane - One common strategy I often see when playing Werewolf is playing very vanilla, not trying to offend/accuse anyone; it actually works quite well a lot of the time. Kane has managed to vote for no one except himself.

Ruguo - Voted for Aragonn for "information" -- I agree Aragonn was suspicious (although I didn't vote for him), but claiming to vote for him for "information" is a bit suspicious to me.

El Fiji Grade - Can't quite say why I suspect this player, but my gut tells me there is something sinister. My brain seems torn between three characters who seem to contradict one another, and I think one of them is the wolf.

Doc - Doc has been very defensive this entire game, and he keeps talking about how he thinks he's "gonna be lynched" -- This is a werewolf move in my opinion: Make it seem like you're confused and being targeted, and people will assume you are innocent.

I have a few other suspicions, but these are my mains ones.

However, I'm gonna have to Vote: Ruguo. Voting for Aragonn is a indicator for werewolf IMO, and his general playing strategy reminds me of my own werewolf strategy lol  :D

I'm honestly open to having my vote influenced, looking forward to hearing back from y'all.

(P.S. Sorry I've been busy, college stuff is fun)
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 12, 2020, 06:45:34 AM
Right now, my main suspicions are Doc and Gerrick.
Well, I now know one thing for certain: Moot is definitely not the Seer, since he's still swinging on me. If he was the Seer, and genuinely this suspicious of me, he'd have scanned me and found me innocent. So clearly a bad read on my part.
Moot hasn't voted on anything, so I'm now doubly confident he's not part of a Seer Squad votebloc - unless he's trying to sneak it in at the last second.
Other non-voters: me, Melehan, Fiji, and HappySpin. I suspect everyone's aware there's gonna be a lynch today, regardless of it only being 2:2:2 since over 50% of votes are in. I also suspect Fiji is aware and will vote to save himself, so if I want to keep it to RNGesus (big if), I should vote Fiji, since otherwise whoever I vote for will probably pick up a 4th vote just to make things certain (voting someone else is, at this point, dumb).
Well, time to revisit past analysis.
I think Laurentus, Gerrick, and Ruguo are our wolves; I think Wintermoot is the Seer; I think he's contacted Hydra; I think Mones, me, Aragonn, Fiji, and HappySpin are uncontacted villagers, and I think Kane and Melehan are our Defenders. (Note for posterity, future me: I'm pretty much making up the defender list, I have no actual idea).
Well, for one, I clearly fucked up one of the defenders, since it was Aragonn. On balance, I'm going to assume it's Melehan since in my experience they're much more active in a power role; Kane .
How neat. Two of my scumspects are on the firing line, and interestingly, neither of them seems to have found it necessary to defend themselves against my earlier accusations.
I figure on Gerrick being more likely.

Vote: Gerrick.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 12, 2020, 01:59:43 PM
*eyeballs the target being painted on me*

Something I find interesting is how Hydra has at this point been basically cleared as town by Ruguo, and everyone seems to be buying into it. This makes me think that either both of them are part of the Seer Squad, or Ruguo at the least is a wolf since, if Hydra were to die tonight, that would give Ruguo further credibility as town since they appear to be working with Hydra. Especially considering that Ruguo was the one who pointed out Hydra as a target earlier.

But since there's a decent possibility Ruguo is part of the Seer Squad, I'm thinking lynching Ruguo for information is a bit too risky right now, especially since the town is down a Defender and the Seer is a lot more vulnerable. Losing the Seer and other members of the Squad will only hurt the town at this point.

So, assuming Ruguo is a wolf, that still leaves a second wolf to hunt down. Currently, I'm not suspicious enough about anyone else to start a vanity wagon, which leaves me lynching between Gerrick and Fiji. Of those teo, Gerrick is the only one who has consistently voted not himself, which makes him seems less suspicious to me, so I'm casting my vote for El Fiji Grande.

I do find it interesting that Kane and Moot have managed to largely dodge suspicion by being so quiet while HappySpin has been named suspicious for essentially doing the same.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 12, 2020, 02:02:44 PM
I mucked up pronouns. Shhhh.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: HappySpin on March 12, 2020, 03:05:09 PM
I do find it interesting that Kane and Moot have managed to largely dodge suspicion by being so quiet while HappySpin has been named suspicious for essentially doing the same.

I also find this quote interesting, haha.  :P :))
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Wintermoot on March 12, 2020, 06:57:46 PM
I try to make time for Werewolf, but I'm never going to have time for more than a post or two a day. I try to at least summarize where I'm at when I do post, though.

What I do find interesting is that there's been some harping on Red Mones switching votes last round, while Doc has been given a pass for doing much the same thing. Fiji says the odds of the false-flag strategy paying off would be low while completely dismissing any suspicion of Doc and in the process proving why it would be a good move. And Doc's whole spiel about me not being Seer cause I'm suspicious of him is just blatantly overacted and exaggerated. Just as overacted and obvious as his rushing to take all the credit for lynching Laurentus proclaiming his innocence for the rest of the game completely afterwards. It's something right out of the William Shatner School of Acting.

And you know, maybe the Doc-Laurentus alliance wasn't so far-fetched after all. They can say it formed before the game even started, but wouldn't they know they were on the same team once the game started? What a convenient thing they could happen to point to to allay suspicion. And let's not forget, Doc was the one who first picked out Aragonn last round. Laurentus simply drove it home.

But obviously I'm not going to get a vote on Doc this round, because the votes are already elsewhere. So the question is who is most likely to be his remaining accomplice? I still find Gerrick to be suspicious, but I'm now finding Fiji more suspicious because of his double standard with Doc and Red Mones. Dismissing the fact in the case of one, but throwing shade at the other for much the same thing.

Vote: El Fiji Grande
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 12, 2020, 09:28:49 PM
Pardon the lateness, but this phase is now over.  Please stand by for results of this phase.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 12, 2020, 09:43:33 PM
Wow, that was a close round.  We have Wintermoot, Kane, Hydra, and Melehan voting for El Fiji Grande (4).  We then have Gerrick, HappySpin and Red Mones voting for Ruguo (3).  Finally we have El Fiji Grande, Ruguo, and Doc voting for Gerrick (3).

With 4 being the majority, we have our veredict.

El Fiji Grande, the second Werewolf, has been lynched.

With that, you're down to your last wolf!  So let's go into another night phase and see where it goes!

So power roles, send me your target PMs, and we'll end the night on 3/13/2020 at 2:45pm pst, or roughly 24 hours from now...or when all power roles have sent their choices...whichever comes first.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 12, 2020, 09:50:45 PM
One Wolf left...
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 13, 2020, 12:09:51 AM
Damn, I did not expect that.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 13, 2020, 01:23:37 AM
Wow, nice going. Note on who have voted in the lynching of werewolves:

Laurentus: Red Mones, Doc
El Fiji Grande: Melehan, Kane
Both: Hydra, Wintermoot
Neither: Gerrick, Ruguo, HappySpin

Unsurprisingly, Ruguo and HappySpin are still at the top of my suspicion list, though we should not necessarily trust that those who have voted to kill one of the wolves makes them completely innocent. We can only lynch three more people before the game ends with a wolf victory (unless the defender buys us some more time), so keep that in mind.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Wintermoot on March 13, 2020, 01:31:02 AM
My suspicion list: Doc, Doc, Doc.

And maybe Gerrick a little bit.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 13, 2020, 01:56:43 AM
Ruguo will likely get my vote tomorrow.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 13, 2020, 02:38:40 AM
What I really want to see is if my theory on who the Seer is pans out. But that will have to wait until tomorrow because if I'm right, I'm not about to paint a target on the Seer.

However, I do suspect that the Squad is small and numbers three as of now.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: HappySpin on March 13, 2020, 04:22:59 AM
El Fiji was a werewolf, and this game is going a lot better than it seemed at first.

Wow, nice going. Note on who have voted in the lynching of werewolves:

Neither: Gerrick, Ruguo, HappySpin


Hm, I did vote for Ruguo last round, but seeing that the vote was somewhat split between him and El Fiji, that makes me less suspect him.

I want to see voting patterns before I vote next vote.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 13, 2020, 11:05:52 AM
Alright, everyone has responded, so I can end this phase.

No kills happened during the night.

Time for another day phase! You still have 1 wolf to go.  Will you get them?  Discuss! Vote! See if you can correctly guess who it is!

This phase will end on 3/15/2020 at 4:10am pst, or roughly 48 hours from this post.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 13, 2020, 04:04:36 PM
NICE.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 14, 2020, 03:19:54 AM
Well, I guess I'll get this started... Looks like we now can lynch 4 people before we lose thanks to the defender.

I will again Vote: Ruguo.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Hydra on March 14, 2020, 05:35:05 AM
Wow. I really thought I would die that round.

Anyway, I guess it's time to just reveal my role. I am the seer and HappySpin is the last wolf.

Vote: HappySpin. 'Nuff said. :D
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 14, 2020, 05:59:08 AM
Vote: Happyspin.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Wintermoot on March 14, 2020, 06:13:07 AM
You mean Doc is actually innocent? Shocking.

Vote: HappySpin
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 14, 2020, 09:51:30 AM
You mean Doc is actually innocent? Shocking.

Vote: HappySpin
wow, rude
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Ruguo on March 14, 2020, 02:30:17 PM
Huh. I really thought it was Gerrick. Guess I was wrong on all three trails.

vote:happyspin
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 14, 2020, 03:11:56 PM
And I was sure it was you, Ruguo! :P Vote: HappySpin.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 14, 2020, 11:46:38 PM
Sorry, Ruguo! :D

Change Vote: HappySpin
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 15, 2020, 12:30:06 AM
That was fast.

Vote: HappySpin
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 15, 2020, 04:17:50 AM
This is so beautiful I almost wanna cry.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 15, 2020, 11:05:28 PM
This is so beautiful I almost wanna cry.

Pull it together!

And there's technically 5 minutes left, but with 7 out of 9 people set in their votes after a role "reveal" it's pretty obvious that the only change in that 5 minutes could be Happy's vote against someone else and the last person more than likely voting against Happy, turning it into a 8-9 majority.

HappySpin has been lynched by the villagers.  Their role was that of a Werewolf.

And that's game! Congratulations townies!  I knew after Hydra learned he could reveal his role with no repercussions that the game would be set at this phase when he revealed himself.

And here were the other roles:

@Doc: Villager (scanned and entered into the Seer's army during a previous night)

@Imaginative Kane: Defender (Aragonn was scanned and both entered into the Seer's army during a previous night)

@Hydra: Seer

@Wintermoot: A villager (who survived a game as a villager!)

@Red Mones: Villager

@Melehan: Villager

@Gerrick: Villager

@Ruguo: Villager


And let's of course honor the dead who did very well in this game:
@Laurentus
@taulover
@El Fiji Grande
@Aragonn
@HappySpin
@Mathyland

Well done again to everyone! If anyone wants a play-by-play of the night phases, I'm more than happy to provide that (short form, Hydra scanned Laurentus the first night, Aragonn the second, Doc the third, HappySpin the fourth.  The no-kill night was a failed attack on Wintermoot).

So how did everyone like the game? What worked? What didn't?  What would you like to see in the next game(s)?

I actually liked going back to a basics game to see how everything was at a normal setting.  Sometime down the road, I'd love to see or host a game with no seer, making it truly a game where the good guys have to use their wits and cleverness to figure out the wolves.

But what did everyone else think?
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Hydra on March 16, 2020, 01:25:22 AM
Good game everyone! Well played Laurentus, Fiji, and Happy! I just have to say, I got really lucky. I'm still surprised that Fiji or Happy didn't kill me after I went pretty hard for Laurentus.

Anyway, I really enjoyed going back to basics. I'd definitely be interested in a no seer game.  :P

Thanks to @Pengu for hosting another fantastic game!  :D

Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 16, 2020, 01:48:53 AM
I survived to the end (for once)!

This game probably would have gone down quite differently if Fiji hadn't been lynched. Ruguo had been set up pretty well as Super Suspicious.

A game without a Seer would certainly be interesting.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: HappySpin on March 16, 2020, 01:56:22 AM
Ah, darn. That was a fun match! (even if I lost)  :P  Both the first two WW lynches were close, if they had flipped the game could have gone differently.

Well played everyone! Thanks for playing  :D
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 16, 2020, 02:21:29 AM
I can't believe I survived a game.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Gerrick on March 16, 2020, 02:53:59 AM
Very well played, Hydra. A less skilled Seer might have cost us the game.

And you were wrong about me, Doc! (And about Ruguo for that matter, but so was I...)

HappySpin, was running silently under the radar a strategy or just circumstance? I admit that I do both -- that history is both good (when I'm actually a wolf and/or busy) and bad (I almost got lynched this game). :))
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Hydra on March 16, 2020, 06:52:31 AM
@Melehan were your seer/seer army predictions accurate?
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Melehan on March 16, 2020, 02:39:35 PM
@Melehan were your seer/seer army predictions accurate?
I had Hydra and Moot flipped, but otherwise yes.

Kane and Moot are quiet as town power roles in the games I've played with them, and with how Moot was waiting before voting, I figured he was the Seer, Kane a Defender, and Hydra part of the squad advancing the Seer's findings.

I should also note that I figured that the Squad consisted of at least one Defender on account of the Seer checking Aragonn and getting a twofer, minus the kill.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: HappySpin on March 16, 2020, 11:56:49 PM
HappySpin, was running silently under the radar a strategy or just circumstance?

As Werewolf, my typical strategy is to lie-low until the end of the game.
In fact, way back in February, when the game just started, I messaged my fellow werewolves:

I have a pretty low-key, lie low strategy


Good game everyone!
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 17, 2020, 01:05:00 AM
I can't believe I survived a game.

And not as a wolf, even!
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Doc on March 17, 2020, 03:48:31 AM
And not as a wolf, even!
No no, I went back through my history of WW games and aside from WWXX, where almost everyone survived because we decided to postpone the game then never went back to it, I've died in every game.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Imaginative Kane on March 17, 2020, 05:23:01 AM
I was worried at the end as I looked on the forums and saw the posts (without actually logging in) until Hydra made the reveal and started the final wagon.
It was interesting being back to the basics but I actually prefer the complicated games myself.  I feel like no seer would work better as a series of games because a lot of that would probably depend on who the wolves end up being and who is not a wolf because some games end up being awful for some players who are normally great and vice versa.

We could have used the Who's Online trick many times with Fiji but I wasn't sure how best to phrase that kind of argument and I wasn't sure how I should phrase my arguments without giving away my being a defender which contributed to my quietness, standoffishness, and bad arguments.

I think this is the first time I have survived a game where I won with the Town (my other survivals were as a werewolf) and congrats Doc on surviving (and sorry for convincing you to take the fall in that one game where we were the saboteurs).

Good game everyone and definitely a well played one for the seer.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 17, 2020, 06:36:24 AM
Yeah, now that the game is over, I can talk about what's going on with Discord.

We want to move all team discussions there, so that the Who's Online trick can't be used.

We've been testing it out via a Spectator Server. Eventually, we can even host games there, I think.

https://discord.gg/R5M2bz
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 17, 2020, 06:52:02 AM
Personally, I love the idea of having discussions on discord for team members.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: ☆ Princess Abigail ☆ on March 17, 2020, 06:57:03 AM
Was joining rank werewolf on discord supposed to add sections or anything? Cause i joined but I don't see anything.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Wintermoot on March 17, 2020, 07:06:35 AM
Huh...congratulations to Doc for being the most suspicious villager. :P

In any case, I personally don't care for the idea of moving team discussions to Discord, and probably won't participate in games if that's going to be a thing, especially if they're going to take place on a private server. I mean, they're forum games for a reason, and people shouldn't be expected to have to be on Discord too in order to play them. That's just how I feel about it, though.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 17, 2020, 07:26:40 AM
Can we get a fix for the Who's Online exploit, then? Because it makes the game far too easy for the Town.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Laurentus on March 17, 2020, 07:29:22 AM
Was joining rank werewolf on discord supposed to add sections or anything? Cause i joined but I don't see anything.

No, that's a feature for eventual games to be hosted on the server, and for Pengu to be able to notify you about stuff more easily.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 17, 2020, 08:03:42 AM
Right.  Whenever a new game pops up, or whene er something like a new phase starts or I'm working on a new project, you'll get a role notification.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 17, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Huh...congratulations to Doc for being the most suspicious villager. :P

In any case, I personally don't care for the idea of moving team discussions to Discord, and probably won't participate in games if that's going to be a thing, especially if they're going to take place on a private server. I mean, they're forum games for a reason, and people shouldn't be expected to have to be on Discord too in order to play them. That's just how I feel about it, though.

If anything, they'd be done via group DMs rather than a new server, since a server would be a lot of work to switch out correctly every time we have a new game.

But PMs would still be a thing for forum games because not everyone has Discord.  But group DMs are cool as well because it's more real-time, so any teammates on at the same time can be much more strategic with ideas.

But I do agree that this Who's Online exploit is going to ruin games if people can see when members are viewing/sending messages.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Wintermoot on March 17, 2020, 03:17:57 PM
If anything, they'd be done via group DMs rather than a new server, since a server would be a lot of work to switch out correctly every time we have a new game.

But PMs would still be a thing for forum games because not everyone has Discord.  But group DMs are cool as well because it's more real-time, so any teammates on at the same time can be much more strategic with ideas.

But I do agree that this Who's Online exploit is going to ruin games if people can see when members are viewing/sending messages.
I chatted with Laurentus last night about this, and I will see what I can do to fix the Who's Online exploit. I'm open to ideas here, actually. :)

I'm not really opposed to group DMs, I just misunderstood Laurentus's post to mean that people would have to join a private Discord server in future forum games. We got that resolved last night, too. Perhaps if we go that route a log could be posted of the group DMs at the end of the game. :)
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Red Mones on March 17, 2020, 04:29:32 PM
Good game all. I don’t think I’ve ever been this active in a game before.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Michi on March 18, 2020, 12:18:50 AM
If anything, they'd be done via group DMs rather than a new server, since a server would be a lot of work to switch out correctly every time we have a new game.

But PMs would still be a thing for forum games because not everyone has Discord.  But group DMs are cool as well because it's more real-time, so any teammates on at the same time can be much more strategic with ideas.

But I do agree that this Who's Online exploit is going to ruin games if people can see when members are viewing/sending messages.
I chatted with Laurentus last night about this, and I will see what I can do to fix the Who's Online exploit. I'm open to ideas here, actually. :)

I'm not really opposed to group DMs, I just misunderstood Laurentus's post to mean that people would have to join a private Discord server in future forum games. We got that resolved last night, too. Perhaps if we go that route a log could be posted of the group DMs at the end of the game. :)

Oh heavens no.  Unless the game itself consisted of entirely all players that were already on Discord, I'd still do forum PMs.

And even then, I'm a sucker for tradition since that's how I send out roles.  DMs would just be a really nice alternative.
Title: Werewolf XXI: The Beginning of the End
Post by: Wintermoot on March 18, 2020, 06:01:38 AM
I've started a discussion regarding the Who's Online page: https://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=6453