Wintreath Regional Community

A Link to the Past - Archives => The Registry of Things Past - Historic Archive => Frosthold Castle - Wintreath Government => Topic started by: Wintermoot on October 02, 2018, 04:07:56 AM

Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Wintermoot on October 02, 2018, 04:07:56 AM
It has been some time since I've tried my hand at writing legislation, but I have been wanting to propose this particular legislation to the Storting for some time now. We often honour important people who have come and gone as we should, but sometimes I think we forget to also honour the people who have been making an impact for a long time and are still here with us today.

To that end, I propose a commendation of Chanku, someone who has not just been with us for a long time, but was the very first person to become a Citizen here as a new player to NS...in many ways you could say he is Wintreath's most native son. The fact of the matter is, his many contributions to the region and community have been overlooked because many of them have taken place over a long time and are in areas that are outside of the purview of the Monarchy and the ministry/nobility system, such as building a legislative and legal culture. I think it's time to rectify that and honor someone who has been part of the community, contributed and tried out ideas, and made an impact since nearly the very beginning. I hope the next Storting will agree when it assumes office.

I went an additional step and wrote a first draft for a commendation that I hope will do Chanku justice for a first draft, since I've given people shit before for writing inadequate commendations. Part of the draft would confer an honor title to him for his role in defending the region: Champion of the Just. This is a phrase from Dragon Age's Chant of Light from a portion of the chant that I felt was quite fitting for him because of that:

Blessed are they who stand before
The corrupt and the wicked and do not falter.
Blessed are the peacekeepers, the champions of the just.

We've never done such a thing before, so I did some research to see if it was appropriate for a legislative body to confer honor titles. I found that there is precedent where it has been done in the real world before, particularly in the Roman Senate, so I believe it is appropriate if the Storting feels the desire to do so. I can't think of anything that would forbid the Storting from doing so, in any case.

Anyways, the draft is below...feel free to post thoughts, ideas, and suggestions, especially if you feel like there's something I missed. I did a good amount of research before writing this, but five years is a long time for one person to recall and research. :)

Quote
Title
1) This act shall be cited as the Chanku Commendation Act.

Recognitions
2) The Storting recognizes that Chanku was the first Citizen to make Wintreath her original home, and that she has since been a prominent member of Wintreath's forum and IRC/Discord community, where she has contributed to Wintreath's special and freewheeling culture.

3) The Storting recognizes that Chanku has been an instrumental driver of Wintrean parliamentary and legal culture, particularly through her unparalleled belief in and devotion to the Underhusen as an institution, through such accomplishments as:
a) Having ran as a candidate for Underhusen in every election since the Storting was established, currently a span lasting over five years and growing.
b) Having been elected to 14 Underhusen sessions, where the Underhusen placed its faith in her by selecting her as its Speaker for 7 of those sessions and its Speaker Pro Tempore for another 3 of those sessions.
c) Having represented the Monarchy in parliamentary matters for an additional session as Chairperson of the Overhusen.
d) Having authored, co-authored, or influenced a number of acts that have passed into law, including the Citizenship and Demonym Act, the Code of Criminal Laws, the Default Seats of the Underhusen Act, and the Procedural Rules Speaker and Officers Amendment.
e) Having tested the region's legal system by bringing its first and currently only lawsuit.

4) The Storting recognizes that Chanku has also served in many other government roles, including Jarl of Foreign Affairs and Regional Gameplay Advisor. Additionally, she was involved in our regional military, the Hvitt Riddiral, through most of its entire existance, from being a trainee in its first operations to serving as Jarl of Defense for over a year.
a) In particular, as Jarl of Foreign Affairs, Chanku created the first formal Ministry mandate in Wintreath's history, which reorganized the ministry and in part led to a revival of the ministry and in foreign affairs unseen since the period right  after the region was founded.

5) The Storting recognizes Chanku as a stalwart defender of the region, its community, its principles, and its Monarch in cases where it has been the target of untruths and slander, particularly during:
a) The events of July 2015, when several prominent Citizens announced their intent to overthrow the Monarchy. Her defense led her to being inappropriately banned by one of the Citizens involved who was also a chat op.
b) The events of March 2018, when The Versutian Federation closed relations with Wintreath for reasons based on incorrect facts collected through poor research on their part. Her actions, along with those of others, resulted in a restoration of relations.
c) The events of May-July 2018 during the Lazarus Constitutional Convention, where she often sacrificed his own personal standing among the powers that be in that region in fighting untruths leveled against the region and its Monarch. Her actions in part inspired a renewed regional focus on foreign affairs, which included her own appointment as Regional Gameplay Advisor and later her second appointment as Jarl of Foreign Affairs.

Commendation
6) Recognizing these feats as fact, the Storting hereby awards Chanku the Commendation of Wintreath.

7) Recognizing the lengths Chanku has gone to in order to defend the region and its honour, the Storting additionally  grants her the honor title of "Champion of the Just".

Oh yeah, I hope that this will also spur more recolonization of others as well...I hardly think Chanku is the only person worthy of more recognition, just the one who is most overdue for it.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: taulover on October 02, 2018, 06:57:13 AM
My currently sleep addled brain likes this.

Especially how it establishes a gold standard and precedent for high quality commendation acts.

And while Chanku has been... controversial... in the past, I do think the Commendation and new title befits him.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Arenado on October 02, 2018, 08:48:36 AM
The Commendation, I have no problem with.

The title, though, I am unsure if we could do that. Or if the OH would approve of it. Perhaps their opinion should be sought.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Laurentus on October 02, 2018, 11:19:29 AM
If there are laws in the way, change them. Specific titles like these are very cool. Far from the generic stuff like count and duke.

Why that title, though?
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Syraj on October 02, 2018, 03:32:37 PM
I love it. Much better quality than other commendation or paragon proposals, and like the idea of special titles.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Arenado on October 02, 2018, 03:58:02 PM
Holy heck, I never realized there was a coup attempt in 2015. A little before I showed up, to.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Chanku on October 02, 2018, 05:12:38 PM
The Commendation, I have no problem with.

The title, though, I am unsure if we could do that. Or if the OH would approve of it. Perhaps their opinion should be sought.
With the title, there is legally nothing preventing us from doing so. In fact granting titles like this is required to occur through the Storting, unless it confers nobility which would be under the Monarch's authority.


Holy heck, I never realized there was a coup attempt in 2015. A little before I showed up, to.
Yeah, I've mentioned it before but it was a period in 2015 or so in which a few people who were IRC Ops and in the government announced they were going to coup, and establish a Republic and remove Wintermoot and stuff. I opposed it, quoting the law. One of them then banned me because I was being annoying.

It ended after Wintermoot got home, accessed the IRC, and fixed everything. Except that Alterra (a member of the 'coup' attempt), did declare a Wintreath Government in-exile for some time...that didn't work out (obviously).
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Crushita on October 02, 2018, 06:14:44 PM
While I wholeheartedly support the commendation, I have to balk at the title being given to him. "Champion of the Just" feels a bit much. While Chanku has done a lot for this region, to give him such an utterly extraordinary title feels a bit out of place. Firstly, we already have a system of nobility to reward people who have gone above and beyond for the region, and secondly the regional theme certainly isn't the Roman Republic. Next you'll be saying we ought to have a triumph for him :P Either way to put him so above the rest of the citizenry with this title feels too much, the commendation ought to be enough. At the very least a more measured title would be in order.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Laurentus on October 02, 2018, 06:56:56 PM
Have to say I agree, unless we confer a unique title like this onto everyone who's ever gotten a commendation, retroactively. Which, come to think of it, would also be pretty rad.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Wintermoot on October 02, 2018, 08:59:07 PM
If there are laws in the way, change them. Specific titles like these are very cool. Far from the generic stuff like count and duke.

Why that title, though?
This title specifically reflects how I feel about how Chanku zealously defended me and this community during the Lazarus Constitutional Convention.

I've been trying to figure out how to explain what happened in a way that doesn't reopen the painful experience that I went through in the process. Early in the convention, I was asked to join the convention's Council of Natives, whose purpose was to vet people wanting to join the convention to make sure they had been actual natives before. Apparently, I rubbed some prominent people the wrong way in my defense of certain unpopular individuals that others in the council didn't want in, and when IC slander failed to deter me, the powers that be resorted to OOC slander to remove me from the IC position, claiming that I had been involved in OOC misbehaviour.

In NationStates lango, the accusation of "OOC misbehavior" means some kind of action that goes beyond the pale and probably warrants your removal from any and all communities involved with it entirely; things like sexual harassment, doxxing, hacking, etc. But I had done none of those things...their 'evidence' was a log from the public #wintreath channel from back in 2014 that involved me joking around in a slightly racy discussion with several other people, which by the standards of that time wasn't anything remarkable or unusual. However, they went on to claim that because it was a public channel which minors could access, that it counted as OOC misbehaviour.

To be honest, I had expected that I would be removed from the Council, but I had no idea that people would resort to this in order to do so, and I was utterly unprepared to respond to it. Just the claim devastated me for a long while after that, and it was the absolute lowest point in my time on NS. In the resulting argument in the Lazarus Discord, I should have personally defended myself, my character, and this community, but I was too shocked and upset to.

But Chanku did...he not only defended me and my character, but also defended this region and its community, past and present. He did so without regard for his own standing or popularity in that region, incurring the anger of many prominent people in the process. He went through all that trouble and effort not just because we're friends (you all know he has no trouble confronting me when he feels I'm in the wrong), but because he felt it was the right thing to do, and that's who Chanku is...someone who will fight to the end for what he believes is right. On a personal level, I can't tell you how...protected I felt at the time it was going on, when I was too upset to protect myself, and how comforting it was and still is to know that he has my (and our) back when we're being wronged.

That wasn't the end of it...later on when that reasoning ultimately didn't fly, they apparently changed their mind and decided I had actually been removed because accepting Govindia into this community showed that I wasn't a good judge of character (a swipe at the many people in the community who supported and voted to allow him to remain in the community for many years), and still later on there was also some slander regarding my motives in founding Wintreath to begin with, but in each case Chanku was there to forcibly set the record straight and defend that community decision, even though he himself had no love for Gov.

I understand that the justification for this specific title was probably unclear without elaborating on what exactly he did, but I didn't elaborate further in the commendation because I wasn't sure how to without making it more emotional than a piece of legislation probably should be, and to be honest it's still tough to go back through what happened...thinking about it still makes my stomach churn. For me, the selection of this title is personal based on my experiences with what happened, because I feel like he truly stood before corruption and wickedness and didn't falter in his defense...he truly championed this just community.

I hope that clears up why this specific title and why I feel the Chanku is uniquely deserving of it.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Laurentus on October 02, 2018, 09:15:40 PM
He's certainly never cared whether his opinion was popular, that's certain.

I have to ask, though: why not also confer a title of nobility?

(Of course this has nothing to do with my wish to have another noble house to compete with.  >:D  ::))
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Wintermoot on October 02, 2018, 10:22:29 PM
He's certainly never cared whether his opinion was popular, that's certain.

I have to ask, though: why not also confer a title of nobility?

(Of course this has nothing to do with my wish to have another noble house to compete with.  >:D  ::))
It's certainly possible in the future, but one shouldn't get all the recognitions at the same time. :P

I felt that given so many of Chanku's accomplishments are in the legislative area and are spread over such a vast period of time, recognition from the Storting and community would be more appropriate and meaningful than just recognition from me.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: trader on October 03, 2018, 04:23:33 AM
I think that this bill is wonderful. Chanku has been a friend and mentor when it comes to region things, I'm glad that he's getting recognized for his hard work. I know how much Wintreath matters to him and without him, I honestly don't think the region or the forums would be the way they are!

As for the title, "Champion of the Just" isn't really with the theme of the region, I propose his title be "Champion of the Starch", although I can see some questions popping up about his devotion to the Holy Potato, praise be.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Wintermoot on October 04, 2018, 02:43:41 AM
I think that this bill is wonderful. Chanku has been a friend and mentor when it comes to region things, I'm glad that he's getting recognized for his hard work. I know how much Wintreath matters to him and without him, I honestly don't think the region or the forums would be the way they are!

As for the title, "Champion of the Just" isn't really with the theme of the region, I propose his title be "Champion of the Starch", although I can see some questions popping up about his devotion to the Holy Potato, praise be.
I don't see how it would be outside the theme, considering it's Nordic with many fantasy elements added in over the years. We've even pulled from Dragon Age lore before...we changed Honorary Citizens to Paragons after I ran into the word there, and Laurentus's title references the Dragon Age town of Highever.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Michi on October 04, 2018, 05:00:03 AM
What about "Champion of the Monarch"?

It fits a bit more, and he technically was your specific champion in the example you gave.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Laurentus on October 04, 2018, 06:20:09 AM
I mean, he didn't just take flak for defending Wintermoot, but community ideals like giving Gov so many chances, too.

That said, it is clear that the title is a very personal thing.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Michi on October 04, 2018, 07:28:51 AM
To be fair, that was more in tune with defending Wintermoot's decisions as well, given how much he (like a few of us) disliked Gov after a specific point and wanted him gone much sooner, I'm at least pretty sure.

The only reason he didn't push harder earlier is more likely because, again like at least a few of us, he supported Wintermoot's decision in trying to help Gov rather than condemning him...until helping him hit its limit.

Edit: that being said I do wholeheartedly support the commendation and the idea of a title to follow.  I just think that "Champion of the Just" just isn't the most fitting.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Wintermoot on October 04, 2018, 08:45:00 PM
To be fair, that was more in tune with defending Wintermoot's decisions as well, given how much he (like a few of us) disliked Gov after a specific point and wanted him gone much sooner, I'm at least pretty sure.

The only reason he didn't push harder earlier is more likely because, again like at least a few of us, he supported Wintermoot's decision in trying to help Gov rather than condemning him...until helping him hit its limit.

Edit: that being said I do wholeheartedly support the commendation and the idea of a title to follow.  I just think that "Champion of the Just" just isn't the most fitting.
With all due respect, it wasn't my decision to keep him here, it was our decision. There were a number of calls to take action against Govindia during the time he was here. Chanku himself put out an initiative proposal as early as September 2014 to have him removed, which garnered no signatures except his own. You put forward a revocation act in April 2015 that you then withdrew support from while it was being voted on.

I'm not shrinking from my role in his presence here. We may have given him too many chances and let him linger on too long, but I don't regret admitting him here and giving him the opportunity to prove and redeem himself. I'm proud that we stood by our inclusive principles, and I've said as much before, even when this came up in Lazarus. But it wasn't just my decision...deep down, a lot of us wanted Gov to overcome his issues and be a good part of our community, that's why so many of us tried to help him realize why people were so put off by his behaviour and help him to overcome it. I still feel like we did the right thing. But it wasn't just my decision, it was a community decision...one that was renewed over the course of years, until we all finally realized that it was beyond our ability to help him.

Maybe I was the one that was there and that they wanted to get rid of, but make no mistake, it was an attack on the entire community. It was an attack on everyone who supported Gov being in our community at some point, because in their opinion anyone that would do so isn't capable of good judgement. It was an attack on everyone who was part of the IRC channel for the first few years, because I was far from the only person that enjoyed the sorts of conversations they used as 'evidence'. The only slander that was truly personal was the claim that I founded Wintreath because I was power-hungry and bullying people in Spiritus...in that case, yeah, I suppose he was mostly defending me. But would you have rather he said nothing and let the idea that our community was founded for such petty and untrue reasons go unanswered?

The fact of the matter is, Chanku was never under any obligation to defend me or us...had he not, he probably would be a much more prominent person in NSGP right now, but he did...in sacrificing his own standing, he proved his dedication to this community and our principles, even in situations that he personally disapproved of, such as with Gov. Given that, I think it does fit...he has championed this community and the just things we have tried to do here, not just me personally.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Laurentus on October 04, 2018, 09:05:16 PM
I can't believe I'm being forced to be a voice for peace, but I suppose stranger things have happened. :D

It is definitely true that we all had a huge roll to play in Gov's continued presence. Looking back, I still regret that the first revocation attempt I happened to be a part of (the one put forth by Pengu) didn't succeed. From a purely cold, rational perspective, given how many chances he had been given to change not only in this community, but NS in general, but had yet to make any progress as far as I could see as a relative newcomer back then. Were I the monarch back then, he would have gotten banned well before it reached even that point. I want to make it clear I'm not criticising the approach at the time, though, since I soon began to think there might be hope after all when I started to make a concerted effort to help him, once the initial attempt failed. I, like many others, was fooling myself.

We all did this dance together. I could have pushed harder from thereon out, and so could you, Pengu. Misguided as we may have been, I do believe our community is better for it. I've softened up a lot since joining Wintreath, and this has had benefits in real life too. This place really did let me see the value of compassion, as after all, Gov was far from the only outcast who had come here and been treated unfairly before, only to find a place where they could always be welcome. Sure, it didn't work out for Gov, but many other members here were treated equally badly by other major regions.

That said, Pengu's point is not without merit. The way you speak about it, Wintermoot, it is clear that his actions touched you on a very personal level, which the community at large does not quite quite necessarily appreciate.

Admirable as his actions were, and they certainly were very admirable, I have to admit there are many things that Chanku has done that fly directly in the face of this title, where he was behaving less than fairly. This is not to bring up the past or attack Chanku's character, as especially now, I am very impressed with the way he has handled himself of late. I would still be lying if I said I was entirely comfortable granting him such a lofty title, though.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Michi on October 05, 2018, 03:51:13 AM
That's more of what I was getting at.  I wasn't trying to lessen anything by saying Gov wasn't actually pushed away later.  But as you just said, Chanku, myself, and others were already attempting to get rid of him far earlier than you yourself were wanting, since you wanted to give Gov more chances to improve.

My point was that even though Chanku nor us pushed things any further, it was because we respected your stance on playing things out a bit longer and backed off.  Not because any of us really wanted to give him any more benefit of the doubt.   And it was only until Gov alienated himself a bit more that we decided to push further since you yourself were burning out on helping him any more.

My main point being what  Laurentus said.  Like he mentioned, looking at Chanku, I'm very grateful that he seems like he's doing very much the better.  But past behaviors contradict the title that you're wanting to give him.

That's why I think something like "Champion of the Monarch" is much more appropriate.  Because even in those past behaviors, he's tended to be a voice in your corner and fight specifically for you and the monarchy, even against when the UH has wanted to change the monarchy in ways that he may have seen as attempts to weaken it.  So that title seems more appropriate than "Champion of the Just."
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Wintermoot on October 05, 2018, 06:50:02 AM
Admirable as his actions were, and they certainly were very admirable, I have to admit there are many things that Chanku has done that fly directly in the face of this title, where he was behaving less than fairly. This is not to bring up the past or attack Chanku's character, as especially now, I am very impressed with the way he has handled himself of late. I would still be lying if I said I was entirely comfortable granting him such a lofty title, though.
You know, you're right. He's done some regrettable things in the past that I didn't and don't condone at all. But I think a lot of that came from a position of immaturity. Chanku joined us when he was barely 14...he's lived most of his teenage years with us in a way, and I think we all know those years aren't always pretty, lol. For what it's worth, I think he was adequately punished for those things...he lost elections for long periods of time, he was temp-banned from IRC on some occasions, and at one point he was even forced to choose between serving as Jarl of Defense and Delegate of Warzone Sandbox when it became clear he couldn't separate those two roles. He's watched others who came long after him be commended, be inducted into the nobility, and become Paragons.

I don't see a reason to hold it against him now, both because of that and because I think he's growing past it. I think Chanku has really come into his own in the past year...he's still not afraid to let his thoughts be known and defend them, which I've always liked about him, but he's developed a depth that I hadn't seen in him before, and an insightfulness and empathy that I really appreciate. He's obviously become a more capable leader, just comparing this term as Speaker with most of his past terms in that position. He's proven himself an able and zealous defender of the region and the community.

I just think now is the right time. I obviously wouldn't even suggest such a title if I felt it would come back to haunt me, much less put myself on the line like this. But I'm confident that he's deserving and that he'll be a credit to the title, and I'd like to think and hope that I've made a compelling case to that effect. :)
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Arenado on October 05, 2018, 07:49:20 AM
Wintermoot, if you truly want to do this, fine. You will receive no opposition from me.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Laurentus on October 05, 2018, 11:52:09 AM
Fair enough. He was penalised proportionally to his misconduct, so he should be rewarded proportionally, too. I simply still don't feel as if that specific title is appropriate at this time. One character trait he has always displayed is steadfastness, no matter what was happening, so why not name his title after that?
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Michi on October 16, 2018, 09:08:19 PM
@Wintermoot to be fair, it comes off as a little pretentious when the person receiving the honor comes off as nitpicky about what he's being given.  It's like if you had given one of us a noble title and we were like "yeah, I don't really like the sound of that title, I want to be called this instead."

I highly doubt that's the intention behind the post at all (rather than the name just not sounding right) but that's how it'll be perceived.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Wintermoot on October 17, 2018, 03:10:26 AM
In fairness, I usually contact the person privately first to ask them which exact town/area they would like in their title, unless decree specifies something more specific. They have a chance to voice their opinion beforehand, it's just done in private.

Drafting this act, I was actually more concerned with whether Chanku would like the title or not. I did not ask him beforehand, because I wanted to surprise him, so he found out about it when I posted the act like everyone else. I didn't think it would be an issue in the Underhusen, because there's never been any opposition to an honor in the Underhusen in the region's history as far as I can remember. If anything, the opposition has been in the Overhusen, and even then because the proposed acts did not properly honor the recipient. This is truly unprecedented in the history of the region.

But in any case, I just don't think we should add insult to injury by telling Chanku to shut up (in the nicest way possible).
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Gerrick on October 17, 2018, 03:45:15 PM
Since it seems you guys (the UH) are looking for ideas for the title: "Defender/Guardian of ..." (maybe even just "Wintreath") since the Act talks a lot about how he defended Wintreath's honor, calling him "a stalwart defender of the region, its community, its principles, and its Monarch".
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Laurentus on October 17, 2018, 03:58:40 PM
Yup, that's one of the ones North suggested, too.
Title: A Commendation Proposal
Post by: Doc on October 17, 2018, 06:22:09 PM
Why not something like, say, 'Wintrean Warden' (or 'Warden of Wintreath' if that's the structure that's preferred)? It's short, alliterative, and hits the key points y'all mention.