Wintreath Regional Community
A Link to the Past - Archives => The Registry of Things Past - Historic Archive => Frosthold Castle - Wintreath Government => Topic started by: Wintermoot on October 09, 2016, 11:26:26 PM
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On behalf of the region, I am attending the "Coalition Against the Ideology of Nazism" conference in Europeia, which seeks to address the issue of Nazi regions and players in the game. I don't think we've ever discussed the matter here as a region before, so what are your thoughts on Nazi regions and players, and how do you believe we should handle them both in gameplay (should we participate in raids/invasions of Nazi regions?) and in other areas as a region?
Our discussion will help me determine a course of action, whether it's recommending the treaty that is being drafted to the Storting or taking unilateral action as a region. :)
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For some reason, I do actually recall this being talked about before in our region, and a topic was made on here about it.
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Doing a search, I see we did discuss making it against the law for Citizens to collaborate with Nazi regions back in 2015. It doesn't appear we've discussed anything broader, though.
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Doing a search, I see we did discuss making it against the law for Citizens to collaborate with Nazi regions back in 2015. It doesn't appear we've discussed anything broader, though.
I see it's probably a typo, and I don't normally bring up typos... But, I was legitimately confused when I scrolled down my news feed and saw that we were once thinking of making it mandatory to "collaborate with nazi regions". :))
I present unto thee, why I don't post first thing in the morning.
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I said that we discussed making it against the law for Citizens to collaborate with Nazi regions...I'm not sure how you got making it mandatory to do so from that...
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I said that we discussed making it against the law for Citizens to collaborate with Nazi regions...I'm not sure how you got making it mandatory to do so from that...
For some reason my brain didn't read the word against. :-\ totally my mistake. So I guess my brain made a typo, sorry Mootles.
Anyway, to actually discuss NS Nazis, I don't think we should sign a treaty where we would engage them, I get the feeling from how antagonistic they are they want people to mess with them...
If you read their discussions which is very hard many of the ones who seem serious have a persecution complex; where they believe they aren't taken seriously and everyone is against them (which everyone is) but most people myself included don't seem to care much about them. Yeah, we don't like them, but in my honest opinion we should just let them have their little dens of hatred, and only react if directly provoked.
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My opinion, in the wise words of Gimli, "Let 'em rot!"
All that talking about them is going to do is get them uptight and continue their narrative of "we're persecuted!!"
Even though that's not the case at all. We can't do anything about it, and why do we need to? All we give them by holding a forum about it is drag the filth into the limelight, rather than keep it suffocating under the rug. Let them parade around with their mini-swastikas on shitty hate subreddits. I certainly don't care. At least they're not actually committing crimes in the real world.
tl;dr: Nazis suck, let them stay banished.
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My position on this is somewhat like Hannah's. We shouldn't outwardly attack them, as doing so will only act to radicalize and make them more aggressive in their actions. Instead we should let them be, for the most part. We should counter any attempts at expansion and raiding where possible, but otherwise leave them be. Further continually attacking their regions will only spread them out more and make them harder to watch. So let them have their cesspools and dens of hatred, and act only when necessary to counter their spread.
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Let the skinheads be: without them, the SJW/ultraleft faction of Nationstates would be left completely unchecked. NS Nazis are like worms: they're disgusting, harmful, and toxic, but they serve a purpose in the ecosystem.
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I actually don't understand why NationStates bans the swastika but allows the actual Nazi ideology/identification. I personally think the best solution would be for this to be dealt with on an admin/staff level, but that seems to be their policy on the matter. Let me ask some specific questions:
1) Should Wintreath participate in raids against Nazi regions?
2) Should we bar relations with regions that have been identified as a Nazi region? What about regions that aren't Nazi but work with Nazis in gameplay?
3) Should we resurrect the proposed legislation making it a law against working with Nazis?
4) Should we join an interregional organization that would be empowered to identify Nazi regions/sympathizer regions which we would be obligated not to have relations with and to work against militarily?
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1) Should Wintreath participate in raids against Nazi regions?
No
2) Should we bar relations with regions that have been identified as a Nazi region? What about regions that aren't Nazi but work with Nazis in gameplay?
Yes, and should be on a case-by-case basis
3) Should we resurrect the proposed legislation making it a law against working with Nazis?
No
4) Should we join an interregional organization that would be empowered to identify Nazi regions/sympathizer regions which we would be obligated not to have relations with and to work against militarily?
No.
EDIT: Fixed case-by-vase to case-by-case :P
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I think people should stop getting their panties twisted because some people want to RP an obscure internet game as a nazi. Who the hell cares? They're hurting zero people, not counting the worthless dumblrinas that get triggered over this shit.
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I have to agree with Justinian. That someone chooses to portray themselves as some terrible person or regime from the past may show poor taste, but to allow their choice to get oneself worked up is a fruitless waste of time. The best medicine is indifference.
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The same could be said for any group or organization in NS...by that logic there wouldn't be R/D at all. :P
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The same could be said for any group or organization in NS...by that logic there wouldn't be R/D at all. :P
Why even involve ourselves in that stupid game? They're both kind of dumb. Defenders keep dead regions propped up even when their prime has long passed and they're going to die anyway, and raiders basically just smear shit on their gravestones. Either way, it shouldn't concern us; after all, we're smarter than that, right?
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On behalf of the region, I am attending the "Coalition Against the Ideology of Nazism" conference in Europeia, which seeks to address the issue of Nazi regions and players in the game. I don't think we've ever discussed the matter here as a region before, so what are your thoughts on Nazi regions and players, and how do you believe we should handle them both in gameplay (should we participate in raids/invasions of Nazi regions?) and in other areas as a region?
Our discussion will help me determine a course of action, whether it's recommending the treaty that is being drafted to the Storting or taking unilateral action as a region. :)
I think this answers the question that I asked elsewhere. Wintreath is raider region. Correct?
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No. It's not a raider region, it's more a defender region. We just happen to allow any type between raiders and defenders to join since we're also an all encompassing region.
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We are a defender region, but I ask because it's always been considered acceptable for defenders to participate in raids of Nazi regions...some regions and orgs, including Wintreath, have simply opted not to.
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We are a defender region, but I ask because it's always been considered acceptable for defenders to participate in raids of Nazi regions...some regions and orgs, including Wintreath, have simply opted not to.
Which is god damn ridiculous, just because a bunch of edgy 14 year olds want to parade around in their little costumes we have to try our hardest to purge them from the fucking earth? Fuck that, if others want to waste their time on petty shit let them do it, we have more important things to do with ours. As for us improving our reputation among the defender community, I say that the lion should not concern himself with the opinions of sheep.
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More important things to do like what? :P
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More important things to do like what? :P
I know you're joking, but we could be spending that time better by cultivating good RPs and fostering regional culture or actually having a life than aligning ourselves with "fucking pansy ass bitches" as those in the western end of my city like to say.
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Fostering regional culture is an important thing...not having a regional culture is the death of many regions, and we're lucky to have people that enjoy promoting a culture here. However, I don't think we're limited to just doing a few things...we can do any number of things that we want, and so long as people find them fun we should do them...cause in the end, this is a game and people like having fun in games. :P
I think the real question is whether it's something that people want to do, and I think that goes beyond the specific situation of fighting Nazis.
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Fostering regional culture is an important thing...not having a regional culture is the death of many regions, and we're lucky to have people that enjoy promoting a culture here. However, I don't think we're limited to just doing a few things...we can do any number of things that we want, and so long as people find them fun we should do them...cause in the end, this is a game and people like having fun in games. :P
I think the real question is whether it's something that people want to do, and I think that goes beyond the specific situation of fighting Nazis.
Given the previous comments and the state of our defense force I'd wager this is a sunken idea. The R/D game isn't all that exciting anyway. Mostly just digging up corpses or pissing on graves.
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It's not exciting to you...it could be exciting to others. It was exciting to me until other factors ruined the experience for me, and it's hard to tell if the state of our defense force is due to lack of interest, lack of motivated leadership, or the resulting lack of effort to build a defense force. If somebody came here who was really into R/D and dedicated to whipping the Hvitt Riddaral into shape, the effort could very well be successful.
But the same could be said about a lot of things...in my experience it usually just takes the right person to attract interest to a particular thing.
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More important things to do like what? :P
literally anything else
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It's not exciting to you...it could be exciting to others. It was exciting to me until other factors ruined the experience for me, and it's hard to tell if the state of our defense force is due to lack of interest, lack of motivated leadership, or the resulting lack of effort to build a defense force. If somebody came here who was really into R/D and dedicated to whipping the Hvitt Riddaral into shape, the effort could very well be successful.
But the same could be said about a lot of things...in my experience it usually just takes the right person to attract interest to a particular thing.
People don't build regions off of "ifs". The fact is that our defense force is in a pitiful state for a reason, and people aren't joining for a reason, and neither of these two things would be cured on pursuing pointless conflict with other regions purely in the interest of others that we don't care about.
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My position on this, no Wintreath should not participate in any raids against Nazi Regions, but @Wintermoot I can agree we should have a proposed legislation law against working with Nazis this can be a better move to do instead of raiding it. But let me say this if the Nazi region try's to have an expansion in their region, that is when we should decide to raid their region.
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People build regions with an open mind, because nobody knows how a region will develop or grow over time. For that reason alone I support maintaining the Hvitt Riddaral, but that's really outside the scope of this discussion.
As for the discussion we're actually having, I get it...you don't want us to take any action at all on this matter. There's no need to reiterate that over and over again. :P
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It's not exciting to you...it could be exciting to others. It was exciting to me until other factors ruined the experience for me, and it's hard to tell if the state of our defense force is due to lack of interest, lack of motivated leadership, or the resulting lack of effort to build a defense force. If somebody came here who was really into R/D and dedicated to whipping the Hvitt Riddaral into shape, the effort could very well be successful.
But the same could be said about a lot of things...in my experience it usually just takes the right person to attract interest to a particular thing.
People don't build regions off of "ifs". The fact is that our defense force is in a pitiful state for a reason, and people aren't joining for a reason, and neither of these two things would be cured on pursuing pointless conflict with other regions purely in the interest of others that we don't care about.
That's not true. People build regions with differing ideas and reasons. To say that no one builds regions based on "ifs" ignores regions that go through structural or even government-type changes almost constantly. Not every region has an iron-fist ideal that they stick with throughout their time here. Some out there including Wintreath pride themselves on being open to any changes that could make the regions even better than they already are.
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It's not exciting to you...it could be exciting to others. It was exciting to me until other factors ruined the experience for me, and it's hard to tell if the state of our defense force is due to lack of interest, lack of motivated leadership, or the resulting lack of effort to build a defense force. If somebody came here who was really into R/D and dedicated to whipping the Hvitt Riddaral into shape, the effort could very well be successful.
But the same could be said about a lot of things...in my experience it usually just takes the right person to attract interest to a particular thing.
People don't build regions off of "ifs". The fact is that our defense force is in a pitiful state for a reason, and people aren't joining for a reason, and neither of these two things would be cured on pursuing pointless conflict with other regions purely in the interest of others that we don't care about.
That's not true. People build regions with differing ideas and reasons. To say that no one builds regions based on "ifs" ignores regions that go through structural or even government-type changes almost constantly. Not every region has an iron-fist ideal that they stick with throughout their time here. Some out there including Wintreath pride themselves on being open to any changes that could make the regions even better than they already are.
But there must be some sort of demand for those changes. We cannot go around like some sort of oligarchy making decisions purely based on a slim possibility of improvement without consulting the people.
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This is NationStates...all regions are oligarchies, even the so-called democratic ones. :P
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This is NationStates...all regions are oligarchies, even the so-called democratic ones. :P
If you stretch it, anything is a oligarchy, but you know what I meant. It's harmful not only to the democratic process but to regional cohesion and political participation as a whole.
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It's not exciting to you...it could be exciting to others. It was exciting to me until other factors ruined the experience for me, and it's hard to tell if the state of our defense force is due to lack of interest, lack of motivated leadership, or the resulting lack of effort to build a defense force. If somebody came here who was really into R/D and dedicated to whipping the Hvitt Riddaral into shape, the effort could very well be successful.
But the same could be said about a lot of things...in my experience it usually just takes the right person to attract interest to a particular thing.
People don't build regions off of "ifs". The fact is that our defense force is in a pitiful state for a reason, and people aren't joining for a reason, and neither of these two things would be cured on pursuing pointless conflict with other regions purely in the interest of others that we don't care about.
That's not true. People build regions with differing ideas and reasons. To say that no one builds regions based on "ifs" ignores regions that go through structural or even government-type changes almost constantly. Not every region has an iron-fist ideal that they stick with throughout their time here. Some out there including Wintreath pride themselves on being open to any changes that could make the regions even better than they already are.
But there must be some sort of demand for those changes. We cannot go around like some sort of oligarchy making decisions purely based on a slim possibility of improvement without consulting the people.
You're talking 19,427 regions as of today. It's impossible to know the motivation behind every single one of those regions, let alone what people do with them. I've been on Nationstates for almost 12 years now, give or take a few from hiatuses. I've seen regions come and go, and I've seen many differing types. It's definitely not unheard of that someone would create a region and change it on the fly almost constantly just because, rather than because it was a group decision. Are regions like that generally popular? No, those usually end up being the type that don't last an exceptionally long time compared to ones like 10KI that are more absolute in their ideas (and has been around and thriving since the beginning). But just because they tend to have a shorter lifespan doesn't mean they don't exist.
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It's not exciting to you...it could be exciting to others. It was exciting to me until other factors ruined the experience for me, and it's hard to tell if the state of our defense force is due to lack of interest, lack of motivated leadership, or the resulting lack of effort to build a defense force. If somebody came here who was really into R/D and dedicated to whipping the Hvitt Riddaral into shape, the effort could very well be successful.
But the same could be said about a lot of things...in my experience it usually just takes the right person to attract interest to a particular thing.
People don't build regions off of "ifs". The fact is that our defense force is in a pitiful state for a reason, and people aren't joining for a reason, and neither of these two things would be cured on pursuing pointless conflict with other regions purely in the interest of others that we don't care about.
That's not true. People build regions with differing ideas and reasons. To say that no one builds regions based on "ifs" ignores regions that go through structural or even government-type changes almost constantly. Not every region has an iron-fist ideal that they stick with throughout their time here. Some out there including Wintreath pride themselves on being open to any changes that could make the regions even better than they already are.
But there must be some sort of demand for those changes. We cannot go around like some sort of oligarchy making decisions purely based on a slim possibility of improvement without consulting the people.
You're talking 19,427 regions as of today. It's impossible to know the motivation behind every single one of those regions, let alone what people do with them. I've been on Nationstates for almost 12 years now, give or take a few from hiatuses. I've seen regions come and go, and I've seen many differing types. It's definitely not unheard of that someone would create a region and change it on the fly almost constantly just because, rather than because it was a group decision. Are regions like that generally popular? No, those usually end up being the type that don't last an exceptionally long time compared to ones like 10KI that are more absolute in their ideas (and has been around and thriving since the beginning). But just because they tend to have a shorter lifespan doesn't mean they don't exist.
I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying it would be stupid of us to do that.
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What interesting opinions.