Wintreath Regional Community

The Amalyan Quarter - Fun Things We Do => Summit of States - NationStates => The Charax Romanov Embassy Complex => Topic started by: Kris Montresor on November 15, 2013, 05:12:40 AM

Title: The South Pacific
Post by: Kris Montresor on November 15, 2013, 05:12:40 AM
Quote
"Consulate" of The South Pacific

This region had relations with Wintreath before our policy of providing a topic consulate for non-allied regions. This "consulate" consists of threads from this region's former embassy merged together to serve as an archive, so that it can be accessed as part of our current system. -Wintermoot

(https://wintreath.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1138.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn525%2Fdphileman%2Ftsp_logo.png&hash=0b30cf3251f93324a61aa0e03d664796)

THE COALITION OF THE SOUTH PACIFIC
MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS
EMBASSY OF THE SOUTH PACIFIC TO WINTREATH
Hi there!

This is the Embassy of the Coalition of The South Pacific and will be used to post all Foreign Updates, which will consist of important news and events from our region, and other relevant Cabinet Statements as well. In this particular thread of Wintreath will also be able to ask questions to our ambassador about The South Pacific and get to know a bit more about the region. If all goes well then this will be a place for both of our regions to get closer and interact more.

So feel free to post and welcome to the Embassy of The South Pacific!
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Wintermoot on November 15, 2013, 06:13:37 AM
/me claps in celebration :D

Speaking on behalf of Wintreath, we're ecstatic to be hosting an embassy of The South Pacific. I think The South Pacific has one of the best Foreign Affairs programs of any region in NationStates, and I look forward to our region being included in the foreign affairs of your region. Here's to the first of many celebrations between Wintreath and The South Pacific. :)

Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Charax on November 15, 2013, 05:22:53 PM
Hear hear! You should get some kind of knighthood, honestly. It's fantastic.
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Kris Montresor on November 27, 2013, 01:54:34 AM
From the Office of the Minister:

Please note that due the the excessive amount of embassies I'm managing I will no longer be able to serve as ambassador to Wintreath. TheStonedSurfers has been appointed as the new ambassador and shall arrive shortly as the new ambassador from the South Pacific. Please do receive him with warmth. I'm sure he will do a fantastic job as our representative to Wintreath.

Thank you,

Kris Kringle
Minister of Foreign Affairs
The South Pacific
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Wintermoot on November 27, 2013, 02:05:58 AM
Quite fascinating, as I know of TheStonedSurfers from my time in Spiritus. A small world it is. In any case, I'm sorry you'll no longer be able to serve as ambassador. I was looking forward to seeing you around more often, but I suppose that's just the way it goes. Farewell!
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Kris Montresor on November 27, 2013, 02:13:17 AM
Wintermoot posted on November 27, 2013, 02:05:58 AM
Quite fascinating, as I know of TheStonedSurfers from my time in Spiritus. A small world it is. In any case, I'm sorry you'll no longer be able to serve as ambassador. I was looking forward to seeing you around more often, but I suppose that's just the way it goes. Farewell!

I usually let each applicant to the Foreign Service choose the regions where they want to go, so it wasn't really my choice. In any case I too would have liked to remain active here, but until today I've been managing ten embassies and that's just too much. To be honest I'm not active in even half of them, and that just isn't fair. It's better to have active ambassadors.
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: TheStonedSurfers on November 27, 2013, 09:38:40 AM
Hai gaiz!

I have been appointed TSP Ambassador to Wintreath.  Hi!
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Wintermoot on November 27, 2013, 12:42:36 PM
Hello! Welcome to Wintreath! We're glad to have you. :)

Oh noes! My laziness has been exposed! I didn't want to make a Citizen + ambassador permission set, so I made it open for anyone to post in. You should still apply for ambassadorship here (http://wintreath.idantir.com/forums/index.php?board=7.0).
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Saeturn Valerius on November 27, 2013, 11:32:57 PM
Hello, welcome to Wintreath! I advise a coat, I expect you'll find it harder to adjust to the weather than Kringle did.  :P
Title: TSP Foreign Update for November 2013
Post by: TheStonedSurfers on November 28, 2013, 12:10:30 AM
(https://wintreath.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi909.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac296%2FKringalia%2FForeignUpdate_zps2c694e37.png&hash=8647cd75287e1f0fad8c1b1ea6e895ac)
NOVEMBER 2013

Delegate Belschaft
Vice Delegate rebel-topia
Chair of the Assembly Sandaoguo
Minister of the Army Southern Bellz
Minister of Foreign Affairs Kringalia
Minister of Regional Affairs Escade
Chief Justice QuietDad
Craziest Person in TSP rebel-topia

BRUTLAND AND NORDEN UNVEILS NEW MAP

Former Delegate Brutland and Norden has finally unveiled the new regional map of the South Pacific, which has developed during the past four months. Besides the map itself, Brutland and Norden also made a biome map, a tectonic map and a map indicating time zones. Claims for the more than 200 plots available opened on 17 November at 6:00 AM EST and as of now over 60 nations have made their claim, indicating the names of the cities, rivers, mountains, forests, among others. Reception among citizens has been overwhelmingly positive so far:

"AMAZING!!!" - Hileville, former Delegate
"We will be the envy of NationStates!" - QuietDad, Chief Justice
"I've got to admit this is one amazing map." - Libetarian Republics

More information: http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/5399-map-of-the-south-pacific/ (http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/5399-map-of-the-south-pacific/)


TSP TO HOST THE 2013 WORLD FAIR

The South Pacific won 166-118 against the Democratic Socialist Assembly a bid to host this year’s World Fair on 17 November. Our proposal was written by Escade with some minor contributions from Kringalia and advocated for a diverse set of activities, to appeal to all sides of NationStates, from role-players to game players to NSG and all those in between, responding to the motto of Friendship and Cooperation. Planned activities include quiz games, debates, role-plays, sports tournaments, a masked ball, a world yearbook and many others. Chief Justice QuietDad has opened two IRC games, which can be found at #tsp_gameroom and #tsp_casino.

More information: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=270124 (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=270124)


ASSEMBLY PASSESS NON-AGGRESSION PACT WITH LAZARUS

With an astonishing vote of 27-2, the Assembly of the South Pacific passed a Non-Aggression Pact with Lazarus to replace the much criticised treaty that has now been repealed. With the appointment of Milograd as Chairman of Lazarus, there were concerns that a positive bilateral relationship under the former treaty would be unworkable. Milograd and TSP Foreign Minister Kringalia thus approached the Assembly with the aforementioned Pact that both regions have passed with some minor modifications. The vote in the South Pacific of 93% in favour largely surpassed the require 60% for the approval of treaties, despite the presence of a controversial clause that required each signatory to report security threats to the other.

More information: http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/5466-non-aggression-pact-between-the-south-pacific-and-lazarus/ (http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/5466-non-aggression-pact-between-the-south-pacific-and-lazarus/)


JUDICIAL REFORM

Following seven pages of thorough and sometimes heated discussions, the Assembly of the South Pacific seems to have agree on a proposal to reform our judicial system, which was a central component of Belschaft’s campaign platform. The proposal would create a Supreme Court with three justices who would follow an inquisitorial system, thus being active seekers of evidence and the establishment of facts, and it would also create a the figure of delegatorial pardons and commutations. Several citizens were concerned about the initially ambiguous nature of the proposal and the possible violation of due process, leading to heated discussions that ended when Chair of the Assembly Sandaoguo proposed a text that consisted of amendments to the Charter and the Code of Laws, which have been so far widely supported.

More information: http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/5390-discussion-judicial-reform/ (http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/5390-discussion-judicial-reform/)


FURTHER NEWS:

SOUTHERN BELLZ WAS ELECTED MINISTER OF THE ARMY with a vote of 14-3 after running against StGeorgie on a platform to take the New Southern Army to raiding operations against Nazi and hate groups and to support allies whenever needed. Southern Bellz then resigned as Chief Justice and QuietDad was appointed to complete the rest of the term. So far the NSA has raided White Mens burden with The Red Fleet and is planning further anti-hate operations.
More information: http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/5409-new-southern-army-aides-in-shutdown-of-racist-region/ (http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/5409-new-southern-army-aides-in-shutdown-of-racist-region/)

ESCADE HAS BEEN WORKING OVERTIME to bring us lots of new Resident Spotlights, which are short interviews of different nations in the South Pacific. Ever since Escade became Minister of Regional Affairs there have been seventeen Spotlights, some editions interviewing government officials like Southern Bellz and Kringalia, and others interviewing foreign visitors such as The West Pacific’s Wickedly Evil People.
More information: http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/forum/359-resident-spotlight/ (http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/forum/359-resident-spotlight/)

The election process in the South Pacific will begin in a few days, so we at the Cabinet want to thank all those who have helped and supported us during these past months, either through reading and commenting our Foreign Updates, for supporting our bid to host the World Fair, and by just being there for us. Thanks as well to the People of the South Pacific, who have worked hard and are still doing so to make this region the best in NationStates. You are making this possible!


Expect our Holiday Edition Foreign Update on December 2013!

COALITION OF THE SOUTH PACIFIC
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: TheStonedSurfers on November 28, 2013, 12:15:07 AM
Saeturn Valerius posted on November 27, 2013, 11:32:57 PM
Hello, welcome to Wintreath! I advise a coat, I expect you'll find it harder to adjust to the weather than Kringle did.  :P

I did bring a wet suit... does that count?
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Charax on November 28, 2013, 06:37:25 PM
Hey, its your health. Thanks for the update.
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Wintermoot on November 28, 2013, 07:07:40 PM
Ah, I remember Brutland and Norden. I spent a month trying to endorse him last spring. :P

It's also nice to read about the exploits of our former ambassador and Escade. They're definitely rising stars in TSP. :)

Thanks for the update!
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: TheStonedSurfers on November 29, 2013, 02:24:30 AM
It's a pleasure to serve TSP!
Title: December, 2013
Post by: Arbiter08 on January 01, 2014, 03:24:46 PM
FORUM (http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/) | IRC (http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/page/irc.html) | EMBASSY (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=240650) | SPINN (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=271304)
Delegate:  Escade | Vice Delegate:  Kringalia
Chair:  Rebeltopia | MoRA:  Awe
MoFA:  Hileville | MoA:  Southern Bellz
Chief Justice:  Quitedad
Craziest MoFo:  Belschaft
 Written By:  Horse
Contributor:  Hileville

Elections over, Santa continues his ascent to power; New Ministers get situated.
The South Pacific’s quadrimonthly elections are finally over, to some’s much happiness, others much moaning. This election, we saw a lot of new users running for the Cabinet positions. We saw Arbiter08, The United Communist Solar Republic, Farengeto, and Horse running for positions in the government.  These new members, while campaigned hardily, did not, unfortunately (or maybe good, to some people  :P) get main positions in the government. Arbiter08, Farengeto, and Horse (yours truly), did, however, get Deputy positions in the government (Arbiter and Farengeto in Regional Affairs, and myself getting a deputy position in Foreign Affairs.) The closest (and funniest) race to watch was, no doubt, Craziest MoFo of TSP. Grimreaper/Chairman Meow, Unibot, Belschaft, and Rebeltopia ran for the esteemed position. All Campaign threads were side splitting funny, and every opportunity to poke fun at each other/any member in NS was taken, and taken often. In the end, only 7 people could win this gladiator fight to the death, and here’s who won!
 
Winner’s of the Chicken Dinner
Delegate and Vice Delegate:  Escade/Kringalia
Chair of the Assembly:  Sandaoguo (resigned)
Minister of Regional Affairs:  Awe
Minister of Foreign Affairs:  Hileville
Minister of the Army:  Southern Bellz
Chief Justice:  Quitedad
Craziest MoFo:  Belschaft
 
My sincerest congratulations go out to all the winners, and may they lead TSP to even greater glory, and an even greater forum community!

Cabinet makes decision on what to do with Osiris situation, issues arise.
For those unaware of the situation, on December 11th, Osiris was couped (as said by people against the current happenings. For those for it, it is called a continuation of Asta’s administration), as Vencio, the Vice Delegate, took power, with the help of raiders ( The Black Riders (http://www.nationstates.net/region=the_black_riders), The Black Hawks (http://www.nationstates.net/region=the_black_hawks), Pantheon (http://www.nationstates.net/region=pantheon), the violet syndicate, Unknown (http://www.nationstates.net/region=unknown), The Kingdom of Great Britain (http://www.nationstates.net/region=the_kingdom_of_great_britain), HYDRA (http://www.nationstates.net/region=hydra), Balder (http://www.nationstates.net/region=balder), Albion (http://www.nationstates.net/region=albion), Europeia (http://www.nationstates.net/region=europeia), The New Inquisition (http://www.nationstates.net/region=the_new_inquisition), The Land of Kings and Emperors (http://www.nationstates.net/region=the_land_of_kings_and_emperors), and Kantrias (http://www.nationstates.net/region=kantrias)).  The new regime, who has been ejecting members of The Empire, has been met with both support and criticism. The issue, of course, had many members wondering what TSP would do over the issue. Would TSP side with it’s ally TNI and support the new regime? Would we side with Mahaj and CO, with the defenders? Or would we stay out of it completely? The Cabinet debated, and as the curtain rose, it was revealed that TSP would be watching with intent on what to do, and also will attempt to repair relations with the region. After the statement was released, Chair of the Assembly, Glen-Rhodes, released a statement, as Chair of the Assembly, on what he believe should be happening.This caused outrage in the cabinet, and Glen-Rhodes is on track to be being impeached. This led to Unibot, only a citizen in TSP, to motion the recall of Hileville, MoFA, due to “Hileville obstructed the ability of our elected official from viewing the sub-forum under false pretenses (security).” Hileville's recall has failed and Glen-Rhodes has resigned from his position.

Question: Reaction to Dali’s statement/plans with Osiris after this, and plans with Osiris/will you seek permanent banishment for those involved?.

Statement from Dali:  Given the toxic nature of the community, we will need fresh leadership in the region, so, I'm probably not going to run for anything in the near future.It'll depend of course on how long it takes Ven, Cormac, and Koth to get their heads out of their asses.  My beef isn't with Ven or Koth really, as although they were certainly the ones to have planned this, they both are, I hope, reasonable players and who can do good things for the community. It's Cormac, though, I have issue with.We'll need to look at those who helped out as case by case, to see if they had malicious intent against Osiris, or for other reasons

Statement from Venico:  Well, I plan on smashing him and anyone who joins their resistance =P This is war, my intention is to win.I plan on establishing the constitution and getting Osiris off the ground and secure and then retiring most likely. I might stay in culture but once everything is safe and fine, I'm getting out of politics.

TSP readies itself for the World Fair, long awaited fun to begin soon.
After a LLOOOONNNNGGGG time of waiting, TSP and the World Fair committee have FINALLY began to set up the beginning of the World Fair, which begins on January 3rd, and ends on the 10th.  The fair, which has 12 regions signed up for venues, is sure to be a smashing hit. Raider and Defender alike have signed up for the prestigious fair, which will create a melting pot of ideas for all members to utilize. The following regions have joined the World Fair, and requested a venue:  The Pacific, The East Pacific, The North Pacific, The South Pacific, Lazarus, Osiris, The United Defenders League, Europeia, Albion, Wintreath, The Versutian Federation, Equilism, The Beach, and Mazeria. Our sincerest thank you here at TSP for signing up, and may this be a fantastic World Fair!

Horsey’s thingybob of the month: Super Crate Box
So, while scrolling through the bowels of the internet, I stumbled across this game, called Super Crate Box. This game, while low in graphics, is loaded with fun. The objective: collect the crates, and do the THINGS *does the things*. The game’s main character, which alternates between different characters (just models, nothing else) , who try and stop creatures from going into a fire. Your job is to stop them, lest they become faster and faster, and can kill you easier. Each new crate allows you to grab a new weapon, ranging from the katana to a minigun, or even a flamethrower. Enemies range from small little skulls, to giant green...things. I don’t even know what they are :P. The game, as I will try and keep it, is free to play, but does require a download to play. I strongly recommend you play the game, and the link below will take you to the game.
http://www.supercratebox.com/ (http://www.supercratebox.com/)

Gossip Corner
Title: December, 2013
Post by: Wintermoot on January 01, 2014, 09:09:28 PM
I'm assuming since some of the news is outdated that we're late in getting a copy. :P

Ah well, thanks for the update in any case. :)
Title: December, 2013
Post by: Kris Montresor on January 14, 2014, 07:08:56 PM
Not really, the Update itself was written late.
Title: New Ambassador
Post by: Kris Montresor on February 11, 2014, 11:43:26 PM
Hi Wintreath!
I have just been appointed as the new ambassador from the South Pacific, so expect the embassy to be a bit more active from now on. :)
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Wintermoot on February 13, 2014, 08:11:16 PM
Welcome back to Wintreath! :)

You should probably re-register for ambassadorship, so that we can formally list you as TSP's ambassador. :)
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Kris Montresor on February 22, 2014, 01:27:11 AM
Coalition of The South Pacific
From the Ministry of Foreign Affairs

The Cabinet of the South Pacific has issued today a statement officially recognising the Osiris Fraternal Order and hoping that eventually close relations will follow. Since the dissolution of the Kemetic Republic relations between Osiris and the South Pacific had been officially non-existent, although the Cabinet had been constantly evaluating the situation in Osiris.

Lately there had been conversations between Osirian and South Pacific officials about an resuming diplomatic relations, and in addition the New Southern Army had been cooperating with the Sekhmet Legion in several missions. This was mentioned in the Cabinet's statement, and we hope that the relationship between the South Pacific and Osiris will eventually be as strong as it once was.

To read the SPINN article go here: http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/5929-breaking-tsp-formally-recognizes-the-ofo/#entry117767 (http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/5929-breaking-tsp-formally-recognizes-the-ofo/#entry117767)
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Wintermoot on February 23, 2014, 03:13:34 AM
Thank you for the update.
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Kris Montresor on April 03, 2014, 03:16:38 PM
Coalition of The South Pacific
From the Office of the Vice Delegate

Quite a lot has happened recently in the South Pacific. Something worthy of mention is the dissolution of the ambassador corps by Foreign Minister Glen-Rhodes, with plans of a more effective and cost-effective foreign service. We have full confidence that this will be a positive change for our region. A more important event however is the recent move we had. Due to a dispute involving how Hileville ran the administrative team, our previous forum was taken down and we had to look for a new one. The South Pacific now has a myBB forum with Tsunamy, Glen-Rhodes and Kringalia as administrators.

We encourage you check out our new forum and register!

http://thesouthpacific.x10.mx/index.php/  (http://thesouthpacific.x10.mx/index.php/)
Title: Office of the Ambassador
Post by: Wintermoot on April 03, 2014, 03:19:48 PM
It would appear your new forums are in a state of chaos at the moment...none of the images work, and clicking a forum seems to take you back to the forum index page. :P
Title: The South Pacific
Post by: Eluvatar on December 13, 2014, 11:23:34 PM
Hello!

We're back :P
Title: The South Pacific
Post by: Wintermoot on December 13, 2014, 11:24:21 PM
Welcome back. :P
Title: The South Pacific
Post by: Eluvatar on December 13, 2014, 11:37:28 PM
While this is not an "official" update, I think I'll let you guys know that we recently had an election, in which tsunamy was elected Delegate, Penguin was elected Vice Delegate, Unibot was re-elected as Chair of the Assembly, Raven was elected Minister of Foreign Affairs, Kringalia was elected Minister of Regional Affairs, and Crimson was elected Minister of the Army.

I'm one of Raven's two deputies :)
Title: The South Pacific
Post by: Eluvatar on December 14, 2014, 08:48:15 AM
A Conversation in #wintreath, info summarized below
Quote from: #wintreath
[17:18:38] <+Eluvatar> what alternative voting are you considering for the Unterhusen, out of curiosity?
[17:19:11] <+Eluvatar> nm found the discussion topic
[17:19:18] <+Chanku> http://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=1849.msg27091#msg27091 (http://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=1849.msg27091#msg27091)
[17:19:20] <+Zaphyr> [ Mapping the World! ] - http://wintreath.com (http://wintreath.com)
[17:19:44] <+Eluvatar> o_o
[17:19:50] <+Chanku> ?
[17:20:22] <+Eluvatar> the weirded out face is re: http://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=1833.0 (http://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=1833.0) not the map link
[17:20:25] <+Zaphyr> [ Proportional Voting? ] - http://wintreath.com (http://wintreath.com)
[17:21:08] <+Eluvatar> Wintermoot, would the provision of some general information as a foreigner who has done a lot of thinking and experimenting with voting theory be welcomed in that topic? :$
[17:22:19] <@Wintermoot> Heyo...I'm not sure if non-Citizens can post in that forum or not, but if you can I have no issue. :P
[17:24:43] <+Chanku> Wintermoot I was Jarl during the time that we closed Embassies with TSP...right?
[17:25:04] <@Wintermoot> I don't recall...I think I made the decision afterwards
[17:25:20] <+Chanku> Actually I was
[17:25:29] <+Chanku> it was part of the embassy restructure that I performed
[17:25:59] <@Wintermoot> I wrote the statement about the closures though
[17:26:04] <+Chanku> Yeah
[17:26:12] <+Chanku> (Although I wanted to do that :/)
[17:26:38] <+Chanku> Although ending relations with TSP is not what I suggested at the time :/
[17:26:42] <+Eluvatar> oh. Yeah. I can't actually reply xD
[17:27:05] <+Eluvatar> I guess I'll leave my thoughts here for y'all :)
[17:28:15] <+Eluvatar> 1. It's probably important to be clear that proportional voting and preferential voting are not exactly the same thing. There's at least one proportional voting method which is not preferential, and a number of possible preferential voting methods which are not proportional.
[17:29:00] <+Eluvatar> Specifically, Single Non-Transferable Vote, where you vote for one candidate and the N (in your case 5, I understand) candidates with the most votes are seated, is a proportional method, particularly assuming tactical voting, but is not a preferential method.
[17:29:46] <+Eluvatar> As to preferential methods which are not proportional, there are a number of possible examples, but I don't see a need to mention them.
[17:30:20] <+Eluvatar> Actually "AV was just the majority" -- AV is a single-seat method in the same family as Single Transferable Vote
[17:30:39] <+Eluvatar> There are 3 terms for the same system, but two of them are generally used to refer to single-winner elections.
[17:31:09] <+Eluvatar> (In the United Kingdom it was proposed to use the "Alternate Vote" for elections within individual constituencies, which would each elect 1 MP to the House of Commons).
[17:31:52] <+Eluvatar> 2. The Single Transferable Vote is no longer in use in TNP because Executive Council elections have been discontinued.
[17:32:17] <+Eluvatar> (Instead the elected Delegate has been appointing their Cabinet.)
[17:33:54] <+Eluvatar> 3. There are at least two different ways to implement STV's elimination and vote transfer process: IRL this is done randomly, which for elections with thousands of votes is pretty fair. In NationStates however, where I've never seen an election with more than 158 votes, when I ran STV elections to TNP's Executive Council I used fractional transfers.
[17:34:26] <@Wintermoot> There was an election with 158 votes? Wow...lol
[17:34:43] <+Eluvatar> I sent ballots to every nation in The North Pacific.
[17:35:01] <+Eluvatar> The first time I did this, it was novel enough that 158 of them voted. The second time, 96 voted if I remember correctly. (Maybe 98)
[17:36:07] <@Wintermoot> We've had at most 24 votes...but we do all our elections on the forums.
[17:36:37] <+Eluvatar> The last TNP Executive Council election, in which only forum-registered members voted, saw 36 votes.
[17:36:54] <@Wintermoot> That's pretty good
[17:36:58] <+Eluvatar> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCj7Gv_2W_MdFFhZFJGb2F0akEzbVhUWGFGLTd6TGc#gid=1 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCj7Gv_2W_MdFFhZFJGb2F0akEzbVhUWGFGLTd6TGc#gid=1)
[17:37:00] <+Zaphyr> [ Executive Council Election February 2013 ] - https://docs.google.com (https://docs.google.com)
[17:37:23] <+Eluvatar> The final seat was won by 0.148 votes >.<
[17:37:56] <@Wintermoot> Oh, an election Gov ran in...shocking. :P
[17:40:12] <+Hugsim> Fractional seems the best with the low numbers of voters we have
[17:40:40] <+Eluvatar> You might want to invalidate sufficiently small margins
[17:40:46] <+Eluvatar> I dunno
[17:41:24] <+Eluvatar> I'd recommend Schulze STV as a less finicky system, but it, ah, can have exponential runtime to evaluate >_>
[17:41:31] <@Wintermoot> I guess I'm going to come off as ignorant, but how can you have a fractional vote? :P
[17:41:41] <+Eluvatar> So the first form is pretty straightforwad
[17:41:47] <+Eluvatar> if someone ranks multiple candidates 1st
[17:41:52] <+Eluvatar> say, 5 candidates
[17:41:59] <+Eluvatar> then each of those candidates gets 1/5 of a vote from them.
[17:42:07] <+Eluvatar> Make sense?
[17:42:23] <+Hugsim> Oh, you allow multiple people with the same rank
[17:42:31] <+Eluvatar> aye
[17:42:41] <@Wintermoot> Oh...I see :P
[17:42:46] <+Chanku> Um...
[17:43:00] <+Eluvatar> The counting method I used applied the same logic to transferring surplus votes from a candidate that makes quota
[17:43:05] * Chanku doesn't understand what I'm looking at on the spreadsheet...
[17:43:17] <+Eluvatar> let me find the textual explanation I posted on the forum...
[17:43:57] <+Chanku> Also Fun-fact: Spritius is also thinking about changing the way they do elections.
[17:44:49] <+Eluvatar> http://pastebin.com/atm0AZAt (http://pastebin.com/atm0AZAt)
[17:44:55] <+Zaphyr> [ Executive Council Results February 2013 - Pastebin.com ] - http://pastebin.com (http://pastebin.com)
[17:48:21] * Chanku is still confused
[17:48:41] <+Eluvatar> The detail I should add is that the voting looked like this:
[17:48:54] <+Eluvatar> http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/pages/voter_ballot/ (http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/pages/voter_ballot/)
[17:48:56] <+Zaphyr> [ Voter Ballot ] - http://forum.thenorthpacific.org (http://forum.thenorthpacific.org)
[17:50:12] <@Wintermoot> And nobody accused anyone of being able to manipulate the vote from the backend?
[17:50:37] <+Eluvatar> People usually trust me o.o
[17:50:54] <+Eluvatar> Though technically in this instance it was mcmasterdonia running the system I'd written
[17:51:49] <+Eluvatar> yeah, form (still) points to mcmasterdonia.thenorthpacific.org xD
[17:52:07] <+Chanku> ...
[17:53:13] <+Eluvatar> To be clear, this whole thing was entirely within the Delegates' office's discretion
[17:53:19] <+Eluvatar> There was no law mandating it.
[17:53:54] <+Eluvatar> I imagine it helps that people could find their ballots in the Raw Ballot sheet of the spreadsheet
[17:53:58] * Wuufu has quit (Quit: Don't PanicBNC, I'll be back!)
[17:54:17] * Guest80283 is now known as Henn
[17:54:24] * Spock gives voice to Henn
[17:54:48] <@Wintermoot> That's just something that comes up anytime votes aren't done by public post in NS, it seems lol
[17:55:09] <+Eluvatar> It did come up, but was not discussed for long
[17:55:32] <+Chanku> ...I still don't completely understand
[17:56:15] <+Eluvatar> could you ask a specific question?
[17:56:23] <+Eluvatar> Because I'm not sure what to focus on in trying to explain.
[17:57:14] <+Chanku> Give me a moment
[17:57:25] <+Chanku> alright on this: http://pastebin.com/atm0AZAt (http://pastebin.com/atm0AZAt)
[17:57:26] <+Zaphyr> [ Executive Council Results February 2013 - Pastebin.com ] - http://pastebin.com (http://pastebin.com)
[17:57:37] <+Chanku> I'm confused by the first couple paragraphs...
[17:57:57] <+Eluvatar> If you notice, after all the candidates there's a "Check" column in the results sheet
[17:58:07] <+Eluvatar> Column N
[17:58:34] <+Eluvatar> In each round, the sum total of votes each candidates has must be the total number of votes
[17:58:41] <+Eluvatar> which is what the Check column checks
[17:59:14] * Chanku is a little confused
[17:59:24] <+Eluvatar> There were 36 votes in the election
[17:59:27] <+Chanku> okay
[17:59:37] <+Eluvatar> If you check the Raw Ballots sheet, you'll see them listed.
[17:59:49] <+Chanku> ok
[18:00:04] <+Eluvatar> During each round, each candidate has some portion of these votes.
[18:00:17] <+Eluvatar> The total of all the votes all the candidates have must equal the total number of votes cast.
[18:00:32] <+Eluvatar> (If it doesn't, somebody's vote has been miscounted :P )
[18:01:16] <+Chanku> So someone votes for all canidates placing them on a list using what they would prefer
[18:01:37] <+Eluvatar> Right, as per http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/pages/voter_ballot/ (http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/pages/voter_ballot/)
[18:01:38] <+Zaphyr> [ Voter Ballot ] - http://forum.thenorthpacific.org (http://forum.thenorthpacific.org)
[18:01:56] <+Eluvatar> Each candidate gets a ranking from 1 to the number of candidates in the election
[18:02:04] <+Chanku> ok
[18:02:05] <+Eluvatar> with ranking someone 12 being equivalent to not voting for them, period
[18:02:10] <+Chanku> Okay
[18:02:13] <+Eluvatar> (if 12 is the number of candidates)
[18:02:41] <+Chanku> What if someone to were to rank all but one candidate x (Where x is the number of candidates)
[18:03:56] <+Eluvatar> Then their entire vote would go to that candidate
[18:04:01] <+Chanku> Alright
[18:04:17] <+Eluvatar> and if any part of their vote were transferred, it would transfer to all available candidates equally
[18:04:31] <+Eluvatar> .. or not at all
[18:04:39] <+Eluvatar> depending on how that particular step is implemented
[18:04:48] <+Chanku> Explain
[18:05:29] * Eluvatar examines the counting code
[18:05:52] <+Eluvatar> ( http://www.thenorthpacific.org/voter/counter.html (http://www.thenorthpacific.org/voter/counter.html) )
[18:05:53] <+Zaphyr> [ Enscript Output ] - http://www.thenorthpacific.org (http://www.thenorthpacific.org)
[18:08:00] <+Eluvatar> yeah, the way TNP counted it, it would always transfer.
[18:08:06] <+Chanku> um...
[18:08:15] * Chanku looks at the code and just freezes...
[18:08:16] <+Chanku> okay
[18:08:17] <+Chanku> then
[18:08:29] <+Eluvatar> One could alternatively assert that if a candidate were ranked last, or not ranked at all, then the ballot should never be transferred to them, period
[18:08:58] <+Chanku> Alright
[18:09:07] <+Eluvatar> This difference would almost never have any effect, as obviously, the transfer doesn't advantage any candidate over another directly
[18:09:13] <+Eluvatar> as all of them get the same fraction.
[18:09:18] <@Wintermoot> Obviously :P
[18:09:36] <+Eluvatar> The subtle effect the transfer has, is that it could boost a candidate over the quota, where otherwise a candidate would be eliminated next instead.
[18:09:37] <+Chanku> Alright now what if someone ranked all but one candidates as rank 1?
[18:09:57] <+Eluvatar> Then their vote would be distributed equally (1/11th in this case) to all candidates but that one
[18:09:57] <+Hugsim> All of the ones ranked first would divide the vote
[18:10:08] <+Chanku> okay
[18:10:14] <+Eluvatar> and as each of those candidates got seated or eliminated, those fractions would be divided further and redistributed
[18:10:19] <+Chanku> Also this is STV we are talking about..right?
[18:10:31] <+Eluvatar> This is a particular implementation of STV which uses fractional transfers, yes.
[18:10:46] <+Chanku> okay
[18:10:48] <+Eluvatar> IRL, elections use random transfer, and I believe drop ballots if they are "exhausted"
[18:10:58] <+Eluvatar> (have no more candidates ranked [higher than x])
[18:11:32] <+Eluvatar> But as we talked about earlier, when there are only say 36 votes, randomly deciding which ballot of say 8 should be transferred can be a big deal!
[18:11:50] <+Eluvatar> So Gulliver and I used a fractional transfer version of the system.
[18:12:18] <+Chanku> ok
[18:12:18] <+Hugsim> Moot, you should post all the ballots de-identified after the mock election ends
[18:12:25] <+Eluvatar> The most common way proportional voting is done is by political party.
[18:13:04] <+Chanku> Obviously though Wintreath doesn't have Political parties
[18:13:08] <+Eluvatar> Which uses similar calculations to the quota calculation to distribute seats, but does not use any kind of ballot transfer.
[18:13:11] <+Eluvatar> Right.
[18:13:47] <+Chanku> SO that's moot I guess
[18:13:59] * Wintermoot watches the discussion go above Chanku's head. :P
[18:14:35] <+Hugsim> Heh
[18:14:50] <@Wintermoot> I suspect we better go with as simple a system as possible. I was actually thinking of Lazarus's chairman election a few months back...something like that is what I had in mind.
[18:15:08] <+Hugsim> What did they do?
[18:15:18] * Ulkhak (Mibbit@cpe-98-28-121-245.columbus.res.rr.com) has joined #wintreath
[18:15:32] <+Eluvatar> The simplest proportional system is Single Non-Transferable Vote
[18:15:47] <+Eluvatar> Where you vote for one candidate, and the several candidates with the most votes win.
[18:15:55] <@Wintermoot> People voted based on preference, and after each round the person with the least votes was eliminated and those that voted for them had their second preference counted.
[18:16:00] <+Eluvatar> With the ability to change your vote and live counting, it's reasonably fair.
[18:16:26] <+Hugsim> Which is pretty similar to what we have
[18:16:27] <+Eluvatar> That sounds a lot like STV/IRV/AV
[18:16:47] <+Hugsim> We do a Quintuple Non-Transferable Vote :P
[18:17:11] <+Eluvatar> Which is also known as block voting, and tends to result in total domination by the plurality IRL
[18:17:40] <+Eluvatar> (If 50% of the people vote for the same candidates, those candidates /will/ take /all/ of the seats)
[18:17:50] <+Eluvatar> (In practice this can apply for pluralities smaller than 50% too)
[18:18:48] <+Eluvatar> It's been banned in elections to the United States Congress since 1840 because Congress panicked that State Legislatures were going to implement block voting to put in complete state partisan control of the representatives
[18:19:21] <+Chanku> Although now they just gerrymander
[18:19:24] <+Eluvatar> In NS, it doesn't necessarily result in such domination because there may not /be/ such a faction.
[18:19:43] <+Eluvatar> Block voting is far more effective at turning a plurality into complete domination.
[18:19:54] <+Eluvatar> Gerrymandering of course can turn a /minority/ into a /majority/
[18:20:00] <+Eluvatar> which is arguably worse
[18:20:12] <+Eluvatar> One could of course combine them :P
[18:20:16] <+Hugsim> :P
[18:20:31] <+Eluvatar> Draw a master district which is 60% of your party and 40% of the other party and elects 10 seats of your party
[18:20:46] <+Eluvatar> and draw a special gerrymandered district which is 100% of the other party and elects 2 seats
[18:21:13] <+Eluvatar> so you get 10:2 instead of 6:6
[18:21:52] <+Chanku> Anywho
[18:21:58] <+Chanku> changing the subject for no reason
[18:22:04] <+Chanku> What do you guys think of my Maps?
[18:22:10] <+Eluvatar> pretty neat :)
[18:22:13] <+Chanku> Thanks
[18:22:20] <+Chanku> I plan on doing more
[18:22:32] <+Chanku> (essentially the same thing, but without the boarders or overlay
[18:22:50] <+Chanku> I would like if someone could help me map
[18:22:57] <+Chanku> and if more people would form nations on the server
[18:23:26] <+Hugsim> You're pretty knowledgeable about this topic, have you studied it "for real"?
[18:23:48] <+Hugsim> Eluvatar^
[18:23:55] <+Eluvatar> It's my #1 issue that I care about in IRL politics
[18:24:01] <+Chanku> I kinda assumed that Hugsim

As a visitor who has often given voting theory a great deal of thought, your consideration of alternative voting systems drew my attention.

While I can't post in the actual topic, I hope it's not gauche to provide some thoughts and information for your reference here. My intent is to be helpful and informative, not to steer your policy in any particular direction, of course.

Firstly I wanted to make clear that proportional voting and preferential voting are not exactly the same thing. There's at least one proportional voting method which is not preferential, and a number of possible preferential voting methods which are not proportional.

Specifically, the Single Non-Transferable Vote, where you vote for one candidate and the N (in your case 5, I understand) candidates with the most votes are seated, is a proportional method, but is not a preferential method. (To be clear, it can have non-proportional results, but if voters vote tactically, the results will be proportionate. This is particularly easy to achieve by allowing voters to change their votes based on the results so far, allowing politically active voters to vote for say their second choice of their first choice is doing well).

As to preferential methods which are not proportional, there are a number of possible examples, but I don't see a need to mention them, as they have not been brought up in your discussions.

Another point to clarify is that Alternate Vote and Single Transferable Vote are two words for the same system in different contexts. "Alternate Vote" and "Instant Runoff Vote" are a single-winner election method which is identical to the Single Transferable Vote used to elect a single seat. (In the United Kingdom it was proposed to use the "Alternate Vote" for elections within individual constituencies, which would each elect 1 MP to the House of Commons. It would not have made the system proportional, but it would have reduced the so-called "spoiler" effect, whereby say having two left-wing parties with significant support will lead to an enormous advantage in favor of the united right-wing party.)

Secondly, I wanted to point out that TNP no longer uses the Single Transferable Vote because the elections it was used for, of an Executive Council, were discontinued. (They were at the discretion of the Delegate).

Thirdly, speaking of STV in practical terms, there are a couple variations on it one could implement. One point on which I would generally suggest NationStates regions interested in using it not imitate real life polities using STV would be on random vs fractional ballot transfers. Because the number of votes for a candidate in a NationStates election will never be in the thousands, and will generally be a one-to-two digit number, selecting ballots to transfer in the case of meeting quota would easily lead to highly arbitrary results. On this basis, when I ran STV elections in TNP, I used Gulliver (https://www.nationstates.net/nation=Gullivania)'s fractional-transfer STV counting program (http://www.thenorthpacific.org/voter/counter.html) to evaluate the results of a series of TNP Executive Council Elections:

July 2012Results Topic (http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/6934379/1/)Counting Sheet (http://goo.gl/hWlgw)
August 2012Results Topic (http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/6954433/1/)Counting Sheet (http://goo.gl/NCmiv)
November 2012Results Topic (http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/6990214/1/)Counting Sheet (http://goo.gl/D6UQg)
February 2013Results Topic (http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/topic/7017534/1/)Counting Sheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCj7Gv_2W_MdFFhZFJGb2F0akEzbVhUWGFGLTd6TGc#gid=1)

In these several elections, votes were cast by nations resident in TNP using this ballot page (http://forum.thenorthpacific.org/pages/voter_ballot/), where the link they received (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=183419&p=10049316#p10049316) would automatically enter their nation name and secret ballot code, identifying them as the nation in NationStates. The ballot page shows the options in the fourth and final such election to this day. The ballot starts by defaulting all candidates as the Nth preference (where N is the number of candidates), which is basically equivalent to not voting for them at all.

I have linked the counting sheets directly, as well as the results topics, as said topics have since been archived and cannot be viewed without registering an account on The North Pacific forum.

How To Count The Votes
Assuming only that the reader can peruse the counting sheets, let me explain how to find the results of an election by the Single Transferable Vote method with the Droop quota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droop_quota) and fractional transfers.

The first step in any STV vote counting process is to determine the quota to be elected. The most commonly used quota, the Droop quota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droop_quota), is pretty simple. This quota is the number of voters divided by the number of seats to elect plus one, plus one:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/4/3/f/43fb00ba8a34580a88b6f7ceadc2f208.png)

Why this formula? It should make sense if one thinks first about the single-winner case. If you're electing one candidate, you know that if they get more than half of the votes, they've won. This is because, if a candidate has more than half of the votes, it's impossible that any other candidate has more. The logic is the same for multi-seat elections: if they've gotten enough votes that it's impossible that enough other candidates have more votes than them to keep them from winning a seat, they've won. For example, if one is electing to 5 seats, then the quota is effectively "more than1/6 of the votes", because if one has more than 1/6th, it's impossible for 5 other candidates to have more than 1/6 each, as that'd add up to more than all of the votes. This was the case in all of the TNP Executive Council elections, and I believe would be the case in elections to the Unterhusen.

So, as 158 nations voted in the first such election, the quota was 158/6 + 1 = 27 (truncated). In the second, the 97 voters resulted in a quota of 97/6 + 1 = 17 (again, truncated). In the third, 45/6 + 1 = 8 (still truncated). In the fourth and final such election, 36/6 + 1 = 7 (exactly :P). (The last election only allowed forum-registered members to vote).

Not only does the quota show how many votes one needs to win a seat outright, it's also used to make the results proportionate. Without transfers, it could easily be possible for plenty of votes to be "wasted" by voting for someone who gets well over the minimum number of votes needed to be elected. For instance, in the first STV election, about 52 of the voters listed me first, which gave me 49.95 votes (several of those voters also voted for someone else first, so their vote was split from the start), nearly double the quota of 27. The Single Transferable Vote transfers votes in this case, to avoid their being wasted.

In that first election, I had 49.95 votes in the first round, and the quota was 27. Thus, 22.95 votes had to be transferred from my pool, to avoid their being wasted. Under Gulliver's fractional STV program, this meant that the 52 ballots (including several already fractional ballots) were each split into two parts, under the 27:22.95 ratio. The smaller part of each ballot was then transferred to their next preference: a total of 6.84 to mcmasterdonia, 4.17 to unibot, 3.69 to Romanoffia, 2.34 to KiwiTaicho, 3.03 to Govindia, 0.48 to peoples empire, and 1.85 to Abbey Anumia. With the transfers done, my total became 27, exactly the quota.

Each round of transfers is a round in the counting of the votes. In each round, if there are candidates with at least as many votes as the quota, they are elected. (Such as the first round discussed above). However, if there are no candidates remaining who have more votes than the quota, then the candidate with the least votes is eliminated. If a candidate is eliminated, all of their votes are transferred to the candidate with highest remaining preference on the ballot. (These transfers are only fractional if the ballots have already been split into fractions).

After repeating this process enough times there will be several winning candidates, matching the number of seats to be elected. At that point the counting process is (finally) over. Of course, when I did this, I did not spend much time counting, as I would simply run Gulliver's program. (What took a great deal of time was running IP checks on all of the voters.... Something irrelevant to this discussion here :P)

Looking back into the records, I found that the very first Executive Council election (http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_fcb6b8fa4cade293) used a very different method of counting. Implementing this method would be very difficult to do by hand, however, so I don't see it as sensible to relate much about it.

I will be returning to revise this post to be easier to read later. If this should not be posted here, please be unafraid to delete it (I have made backup of the text for my records, in case I feel a need to reproduce it elsewhere in other circumstances).
Title: The South Pacific
Post by: Wintermoot on December 14, 2014, 08:04:48 PM
Thanks for your thoughts and input into our discussions of changing our voting system...they're appreciated, and I don't see any problem with them being posted here. I just wish I had more to respond with to such a well-constructed post. :P
Title: The South Pacific
Post by: Raven on December 17, 2014, 04:41:31 AM
I confess, the very thought of handling a new voting system terrifies me.
Title: The South Pacific
Post by: Katie on January 28, 2018, 05:17:05 PM
Hey Y’all! *dusts off this ancient consulate* I am Katie, your brand-new ambassador from the South Pacific! I’ve been reading through some older FA updates from this thread and needless to say: y’all haven’t seen activity from us in a long time! I sincerely hope to have great fun here in Wintreath, and I will make sure this consulate is at least semi-active again  :P
Title: The South Pacific
Post by: BraveSirRobin on January 28, 2018, 09:50:16 PM
Katie posted on January 28, 2018, 05:17:05 PM
Hey Y’all! *dusts off this ancient consulate* I am Katie, your brand-new ambassador from the South Pacific! I’ve been reading through some older FA updates from this thread and needless to say: y’all haven’t seen activity from us in a long time! I sincerely hope to have great fun here in Wintreath, and I will make sure this consulate is at least semi-active again  :P
Sounds great!  We look forward to the new life with great anticipation!  :P
Title: The South Pacific
Post by: Katie on February 18, 2018, 01:26:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/jMHbA0N.png)
Hey Y'all! We here in the South Pacific have been hard at work strengthening our iron-clad contracts friendly diplomatic relations, and after many a long night in the halls of our embassies, The South Pacific is thrilled to announce our signing of The January Accords, a multilateral treaty with the governments of The East Pacific and The Rejected Realms!

With both regions holding similar values and global perceptions as ourselves, we're super excited to move forward in this new partnership. While TSP already has a treaty with TRR, the idea of a multilateral treaty came up during talks and ended up being widely supported by all sides of the negotiation.

This treaty signifies another step in The South Pacific's foreign affairs direction towards meaningful alliances grounded in mutual respect and interests, and we hope that'll lead to prosperity for everyone involved. :)
Title: The South Pacific
Post by: Katie on February 23, 2018, 02:27:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/U5vO7lq.png?1)

Hey Y'all!  ^-^ The South Pacific is proud to host the second annual Interregional Olympic Games. This series of competitive challenges will begin on Friday evening March 2! An opening ceremony will kick off intense competition between regions, organizations and independent athletes. Will you take home the gold?

Prepare your teams or yourself to compete in

R/D challenges including:
(https://i.imgur.com/e8PuiVe.gif)

Other Competitive Challenges including:
So what are you waiting for? Assemble your team, starting planning that opening ceremony torch walk!

Regions, organizations or individuals interested in competing should complete the following Google form (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdGMZGQZVBkzgQ7yLM0H2pKlINPYtBOpqslRkBBJbeCtDNAbA/viewform). Join the official II International Olympic Interregional Games II Discord  (https://discord.gg/jDKVc3U)here.

Aren’t part of a team but want to spectate a show of fine athletic abilities, join us on Discord  (https://discord.gg/jDKVc3U) and tune in at 11PM EST for live event announcements and some lit VCs!