Wintreath Regional Community
A Link to the Past - Archives => The Registry of Things Past - Historic Archive => Frosthold Castle - Wintreath Government => Topic started by: Michi on August 28, 2017, 04:33:02 AM
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Alright, so since our fix-it laws have been passed and sent to their respective places, I think it's time to start tackling some of the bigger topics that we've discussed, or that you've asked about.
Wintreath has a pretty standard election process. Nominations are open for a set period (I believe 5 days), and elections fall right on the first of the month at the set period (February, April, June, August, October, and December). During that time, candidates are highly encouraged to campaign their brains out and give people an idea of what they stand for...though it's also not required to do so as some past candidates have shown either by incredibly simple campaigns (Aka with a simple "just vote for me" feel), or lack of one altogether.
campaigning can last all the way through voting, which normally lasts a few days. Voting is done in the style of listing the number of voted candidates equaling the number of open seats (though you're always welcome to place as many "abstains" for spots if you feel none of the remaining candidates deserve those open seats), and you're welcome to vote privately or publicly.
If the number of candidates running only equals that of the open seats, then they get those seats by default by the time nominations begin. If the number of candidates equals less then that...then I don't know actually, what's the rule on that one?
Either way, that's our election process in a nutshell. Last election, there was a bit of a spark because I had chosen to run later since the thread was never closed/updated and whatnot, and it caused a bit of a stir. On the one side, people were all for having an actual election as opposed to a walkover, and on the other side the laws were apparently very rigid and precise to saying that it wasn't allowed. In the end, the Monarch decided to go forth with elections and go against what the law had stated, and almost everyone seemed alright about it.
in the UH at this time, we're discussing adding a caveat to the election process that gives the Monarch the choice to extend the nomination process at his discretion, since we believe it should always be up to him in the end since he's the one that runs the elections in the first place.
But I want to know how you guys feel as well. Do you feel like a caveat like that should be added to the existing system for future elections? Do you like how the current process even is? Or is there anything else that you wish would be changed to make things better?
I'd love to hear feedback from everyone on the process, but I'd especially love to hear from those who don't normally campaign and stay away from voting...what is it that turns you away from wanting to get involved with the process? What are some things that can be done to make you more interested in wanting to get involved?
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IMO the existing laws are already vague enough to give Wintermoot that leeway.
The only reason why elections occur specifically the way they currently do is convention.
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I don't campaign because I think the UH is a waste of time. Not because you guys are shit or anything (you're not; thought I should be clear on that), just...there's no day-to-day governance that needs to happen, meaning there's little activity, meaning there doesn't feel like there's a whole lot of point.
Maybe if the UH was instead trying to elect officers (e.g. Jarl of Integration or whatever, or, hell, just moderators for the different subfora) who also did UH things when those needed to be done (which are rare occurrences, which is good), there would be more interest.
As it is, the institution itself is just kind of hollow, and feels like it only exists because people feel like as a NS-linked forum, there needs to be some degree of regional governance on 'this side' of things, which, to me, seems a bit silly. Governance 'makes sense' in an NS context, but the concerns of a forum community and a game (even if the 'game' is really the metagame) community are wholly different. You play games to win, and so you need people to coordinate that; you're in a community because you just kinda like doing something, whether it's engaging in fruitless spam wars, roleplay, whatever.
Sure, you need a moderator or two to make sure nobody's a dick, and you need an administrator or two to make sure shit doesn't break, but you don't need a whole other group of 5 people to start legislation saying 'here's how not to be a dick', you just kind of have someone (i.e. an administrator/moderator) lay down the law on that.
THAT SAID, if the UH electoral process needs amending, put it in stone.
'The call for nominations begins 5 days preceding the election at midnight EST. This closes on the 31st of the month at 23:59 EST, and the election will continue until the 7th of the month.' Stuff like that. Then you don't have any of the 'flexibility' that stems from Wintermoot not closing the electoral rolls like we did this time; it's 'you stood on time/you didn't'.
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If the nomination process needs to be made more detailed, it should probably be by Royal Decree, IMO, because the Fundamental Laws give the Monarchy the power to run the elections and it doesn't make sense to go into that much detail in constitutional law.
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And I haven't found a place where it states how long Underhusen nomination and election periods are. The length of recall elections is stated, but not the length of actual elections. Like Tau said, this kind of thing would probably be best as a royal decree. That would be better than waiting a couple weeks for both the Underhusen and Overhusen to vote on a bill that still hasn't been written yet. But I still think Wintermoot should have the ability to extend the nomination / election periods.
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Title
1. This bill shall be cited as The Underhusen Elections Clarification Act
Underhusen Elections
2. On the month preceding a regular election month, the call for nominations begins 5 days preceding the election at midnight EST. This closes on the last day of the month at 23:59 EST, and the election will continue until the 7th of the election month; however, the Monarch shall have the power to extend the nomination period, the election period, or both up to seven (7) days.
I wrote up this draft for a statutory law if we decide to go that route instead of a royal decree. I took the wording for the start of section 2 from @Doc, so thanks for that.
This also shows how simple writing up laws can be, and I hope it encourages others to do the same in the future so it's not just me writing all the laws we decide we want. This took 10 minutes, and that was only because I was having trouble making the wording sound right.
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This closes on the 31st of the month at 23:59 EST...
But what about the months that have fewer than 31 days?
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This closes on the 31st of the month at 23:59 EST...
But what about the months that have fewer than 31 days?
Good catch. I'll fix that now
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Oh it really should be 3:59 GMT, if we want to be super official and fancy :P
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Oh it really should be 3:59 GMT, if we want to be super official and fancy :P
NS game time is in Eastern time, so...
Wait, by EST do we mean Eastern Standard Time or Eastern Time (including US DST)?
Also, if you're going the Statutory Law route, are you assuming that some part of Article I of the Fundamental Laws (perhaps Sections 10 and 15) give you this power? Because I'm not certain the Storting has the authority to do this...
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Oh it really should be 3:59 GMT, if we want to be super official and fancy :P
NS game time is in Eastern time, so...
Wait, by EST do we mean Eastern Standard Time or Eastern Time (including US DST)?
Also, if you're going the Statutory Law route, are you assuming that some part of Article I of the Fundamental Laws (perhaps Sections 10 and 15) give you this power? Because I'm not certain the Storting has the authority to do this...
Which Eastern Time is used in NS? We should probably use whichever one NS uses.
I would think section 15 and especially section 10 would give the Underhusen this power because it's just adding a little more power to the Monarch, which I don't think is too extreme that we shouldn't have the authority to do.
I think someone suggested that this should be a Statutory Law. I couldn't find a good spot to put this in the Fundamental Laws or the Underhusen Procedure, and changing this in the Fundamental Laws would change all elections. But now that I think about it, it would probably be best to have this affect all normal elections so it would include Delegate elections. This was only a rough draft, so I have no problem changing it. What section of our laws should this be put in?
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Correction Delegate elections are not normal elections. The Delegate position is exclusively controlled by the Monarch, and as such any elections and their running are exclusively under the directions of the monarch and not the Fundamental Laws.
Also I would argue the Storting lacks the authority to pass this under a statutory law, as it conflicts with Sections 2 and 3 of Article I within the Fundamental Laws, specifically regarding the moving of elections as it explains that elections begin on the first day of certain months, and then Article IV defines the procedures for these elections.
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I think at this point Wintermoot should just make a royal decree so we can avoid the problem of if we have the authority to pass a law about this and where we should do it. Elections are overseen by the monarch, after all. Although, I don't want to force Wintermoot to write a decree if he doesn't want to / doesn't have time to. I might consider proposing a decree that Wintermoot can revise or decide whether or not to implement, if doing that would make things easier?
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It could be argued that the Monarch doesn't have the authority though, as the monarch only has the authority to oversee elections, not regulate them.
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then put it to a plebiscite, have the Underhusen propose it, whatever, the point is to do something and clearly, whoever has the power is not really relevant here since there seems to be an almost universal agreement that something should be done about it, the point is to finally hash out the exact procedure
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Wintermoot definitely has the authority to pass a decree like this for the Delegate elections because he exclusively controls it, like Chanku said.
As for Underhusen elections, I feel like this would fit under article II section 1 or section 6 of the Fundamental Laws.
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then put it to a plebiscite, have the Underhusen propose it, whatever, the point is to do something and clearly, whoever has the power is not really relevant here since there seems to be an almost universal agreement that something should be done about it, the point is to finally hash out the exact procedure
it actually is, we are a region of laws doc. As much as I know you don't care for them, we are. If someone doesn't have the authority to create something, then we must abide by it.
Wintermoot definitely has the authority to pass a decree like this for the Delegate elections because he exclusively controls it, like Chanku said.
As for Underhusen elections, I feel like this would fit under article II section 1 or section 6 of the Fundamental Laws.
Article II, Section 1 only grants executive authority which doesn't necessarily include elections, which follows as Article IV, Section 2 clarifies that the Monarch oversees those elections. Article II, Section 6 doesn't actually mention electoral powers. If anything that section would only say that the Monarch can release a decree regarding electoral oversight (as granted in Article IV, Section 2). The Underhusen can pass a law regarding nomination periods, but not regarding allowing any moving of the Election Period.
In order to pass the reform which is currently being sought it would have to be a Constitutional Amendment. Although I HIGHLY disagree and would oppose the current reform as is being discussed for other reasons.
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Yes, laws are relevant. But when everyone agrees that the law should be changed, and more importantly what it should be changed to, I don't really give a shit about the process by which it happens, as long as it actually winds up happening, and I imagine a lot of people feel the same way.
EDIT:
Okay I'll be fair I have reread your post and see that you disagree with those changes.
Why do you disagree with those changes? Codifying the exact start and end of the electoral period is a good thing.
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It could be argued that the Monarch doesn't have the authority though, as the monarch only has the authority to oversee elections, not regulate them.
By overseeing the election, the Monarchy already does regulate it, if you're going to define this hypothetical decree as regulation. The language on when and how Underhusen elections are held are already quite vague, and in practice this means that the Monarch has quite a bit of leeway on how he runs the elections. For instance, Wintermoot already gets to decide how to open the nominations period, when to post on election day, the ballot format, etc. A royal decree on this process would only be an official act of self-regulation on how the Monarch plans to oversee the elections, not regulation on elections themselves.
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A question for the Underhusen: is the bill currently at vote intended to be Statutory or Constitutional Law?
Also @Pengu I think you meant to mention @Mathyland
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No, I mentioned them. I'm just going to assume that they use something other than an L in their name. :))
That or I'm dyslexic, since I mentioned "Maythland"
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And to answer the other question, I almost feel like this would be better for Statutory Law. Looking at the difference between the types of laws in each, I think it would be a better fit in that category.
But in all honesty, since it's something concerning the authority of the Monarch, I do think this might be better suited for a Royal Decree rather than a Statutory/Constitutional Law. I mean the period of elections is already set, so this would just be saying "Yeah, it's a set period, but if Wintermoot wants to extend it, he can."
Edit: Upon reading it more carefully, this is intended to indeed be a Statutory Law:
Title
-snip-
I wrote up this draft for a statutory law if we decide to go that route instead of a royal decree.
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@Aragonn: the election process isn't changing. The law itself will just give Moot the authority to add extensions to the nomination period at his discretion.
So basically, we're giving him the written authority (even though technically he should already have it) to make campaigns go longer by extending nomination time, not shorter.
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That's not quite what I read in the text, but maybe I'm reading it wrong.
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If I'm reading this correctly, this shortens campaign times by a lot through taking things straight from nominations to elections. When I was running for the UH, campaigns were everything. That and reputation, but campaigns were a big deal. For that, I say Nay.
Well...that's what already happens though? You can campaign during both the nomination and election period. Nothing has really changed. The only difference is that the length of each period is codified, meaning that people can't jump into the electoral race during the election period; joining can only happen during the nomination period.
Oh, and the 'Monarch can extend either section of the race at his discretion' thing.
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If I'm reading this correctly, this shortens campaign times by a lot through taking things straight from nominations to elections. When I was running for the UH, campaigns were everything. That and reputation, but campaigns were a big deal.
That's because there is no formal campaign period. People have always campaigned during the nomination and voting periods.
Ninja edit: Doc beat me to it
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I must've remembered wrong.