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[Citizens' Discussion]Fundamental Laws Justice and Legislation Revision Act
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Gattoartico
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    Quote from: Fundamental Laws Justice and Legislation Revision Act
    Title
    1. This act shall be titled the Fundamental Laws Justice and Legislation Revision Act

    Amendments
    2. Article I, Section 15 of the Fundamental Laws shall be amended to read as follows:
    Quote
    15. The Storting shall have the authority to interpret these Fundamental Laws and statutory laws in acts of definition. The Storting may also determine how a court of law issues rulings and verdicts in regards to violation of these laws and set punishments for a court of law to use in violations of those laws, within the parameters of these Fundamental Laws and any other laws.

    3. Article I, Section 16 shall be rendered null and void with all following sections being renumbered accordingly

    4. Article III, Section 1 shall be amended to read as follows:
    Quote
    1. Upon the filing of cases within the Storting, the Monarch shall select at random a Peer of the Overhusen and two Skrifa of the Underhusen to serve as Justices in a judicial panel, provided the selected person is not the Plaintiff or Defendant. The Peer shall serve as Chief Justice, and the Skrifa shall serve as Associate Justices. The Monarch is ineligible to serve on judicial panels.

    5. Article III shall gain a new section, numbered Section 5, which shall read as follows:
    Quote
    5. A Judicial Panel shall have the authority to interpret these Fundamental Laws and statutory laws and consider the constitutionality over laws brought before the Panel, determine rulings and verdicts in regard to violations of these laws, and determine punishments for violations of these laws within the parameters of these Fundamental Laws and any other laws.

    6. Article III shall gain a new section, numbered Section 6, which shall read as follows:
    Quote
    6. A Judicial Panel shall have the authority to issue advisory opinions on matters of constitutionality and legality to anyone who has been determined to have standing to seek an advisory opinion.

    Discuss to your hearts content.
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    Gattoartico
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    Doc
  • Citizen
  • Hot take on why nobody is discussing this: very likely, nobody thinks they'll ever be affected by it. Who thinks they're ever gonna break the law? More importantly, I don't think most people are even aware of what the fundamental laws are, doubts they'll ever break one, and so don't give a shit. Legislation that gets debated is legislation that people think will affect their lives - nobody gives a shit about Congress passing a law that deals with, I dunno, pig farmers in rural Iowa, but there's gonna be a veritable shit storm the moment someone says the word 'healthcare'. It's just kind of irrelevant to people. If y'all in the Underhusen think it's aight, whatever, pass it. I personally oppose it, not because I see any problems with it as a piece of legislation - I just think that legislation of this sort is kind of pointless.

    I pretty much treat this as 'any internet community', where essentially the laws are 'don't be a dick', 'don't piss off the admins or mods', and 'don't break the laws of the country where you live' and pretty much anything else goes. Anything else would strike me as essentially petty stupid bureaucratic nonsense, and if I were banned (or...whatever other kind of thing you can do to me, but realistically since there's no actual legal authority besides whatever we're all just sort of agreeing to, I could post 'fuck all y'all' in every topic, put 17 dick pictures in the Underhusen 'for debate', and then leave forever and there would be sweet fuck all you could do to punish me, because I would no longer be around to ban) for something like that I'd probably just be like 'well fuck all y'all anyway' (although I wouldn't post it in every topic, that's just 1) a dick move and 2) too much work).

    Legal committees or whatever the hell for an internet community are really just a formality for people who want to make it seem like someone they're banning is actually a criminal. They're not. Just vest the mods and admins with the appropriate power, and don't go through the stupid motions of trials or judicial committees or whatever the hell because either 1) the mods and admins are sane, logical people who won't abuse their power, or 2) they're psychotic dicks, in which case the king will kick them out because at the end of the day he's root admin and he can do whatever he wants (clearly Ainur has traumatized me for life).

    It's one thing to have a committee to do shit like this when they have actual, meaningful power, like if we were colonizing Mars or some shit, but unless you've figured out a way to reach through the computer screen and choke somebody out (in which case, please teach me this art, oh wise master), the effective punishments are 'getting kicked out' and 'that's it'. It's why I find the practice of regional government dull and boring (because there's no real power, no real impact, and no real consequences), and as a corollary why I find student government stupid (they do sweet fuck all worth a damn except make my life more difficult). It's playing pretend, but for people who find spreadsheets and bureaucracy fun.

    tl;dr i'm very aggressive about how dumb I find democratic regional government but more importantly this legislation seems extraneous, just let the monarch handle judicial problems, because it's not like they happen every weekend, seriously, when was the last time there was something of this nature
    4 people like this post: taulover, Gerrick, Elbbsas, Sapphiron
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    Chanku
  • Citizen
  • Hot take on why nobody is discussing this: very likely, nobody thinks they'll ever be affected by it. Who thinks they're ever gonna break the law? More importantly, I don't think most people are even aware of what the fundamental laws are, doubts they'll ever break one, and so don't give a shit. Legislation that gets debated is legislation that people think will affect their lives - nobody gives a shit about Congress passing a law that deals with, I dunno, pig farmers in rural Iowa, but there's gonna be a veritable shit storm the moment someone says the word 'healthcare'. It's just kind of irrelevant to people. If y'all in the Underhusen think it's aight, whatever, pass it. I personally oppose it, not because I see any problems with it as a piece of legislation - I just think that legislation of this sort is kind of pointless.

    I pretty much treat this as 'any internet community', where essentially the laws are 'don't be a dick', 'don't piss off the admins or mods', and 'don't break the laws of the country where you live' and pretty much anything else goes. Anything else would strike me as essentially petty stupid bureaucratic nonsense, and if I were banned (or...whatever other kind of thing you can do to me, but realistically since there's no actual legal authority besides whatever we're all just sort of agreeing to, I could post 'fuck all y'all' in every topic, put 17 dick pictures in the Underhusen 'for debate', and then leave forever and there would be sweet fuck all you could do to punish me, because I would no longer be around to ban) for something like that I'd probably just be like 'well fuck all y'all anyway' (although I wouldn't post it in every topic, that's just 1) a dick move and 2) too much work).

    Legal committees or whatever the hell for an internet community are really just a formality for people who want to make it seem like someone they're banning is actually a criminal. They're not. Just vest the mods and admins with the appropriate power, and don't go through the stupid motions of trials or judicial committees or whatever the hell because either 1) the mods and admins are sane, logical people who won't abuse their power, or 2) they're psychotic dicks, in which case the king will kick them out because at the end of the day he's root admin and he can do whatever he wants (clearly Ainur has traumatized me for life).

    It's one thing to have a committee to do shit like this when they have actual, meaningful power, like if we were colonizing Mars or some shit, but unless you've figured out a way to reach through the computer screen and choke somebody out (in which case, please teach me this art, oh wise master), the effective punishments are 'getting kicked out' and 'that's it'. It's why I find the practice of regional government dull and boring (because there's no real power, no real impact, and no real consequences), and as a corollary why I find student government stupid (they do sweet fuck all worth a damn except make my life more difficult). It's playing pretend, but for people who find spreadsheets and bureaucracy fun.

    tl;dr i'm very aggressive about how dumb I find democratic regional government but more importantly this legislation seems extraneous, just let the monarch handle judicial problems, because it's not like they happen every weekend, seriously, when was the last time there was something of this nature
    To be fair Wintermoot doesn't want to have absolute authority. He actually doesn't even want to be involved that much in the Judiciary...
    See you later space cowboy.
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    Current Positions in Wintreath
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    Chanku
    taulover
  • Regional Stability Squad
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  • We did originate for NS, so having a model government in place, even if it has essentially no power, makes sense. And adding judicial review and making the laws more consistent is nice, I suppose.
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    Wintreath:
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    taulover
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