Pages: 1 ... 3 [4]

Nomic
Posts: 49 Views: 4289

Emoticonius
  • Former Citizen
  • Supreme Grand Admiral of The Emoticonian Army
  • I...don't see how that applies. Debate is allowed by that rule and we are debating. Besides, confining ourselves to the rules in a game where we constantly change the rules isn't as confining as you make it out to be. We could require rule changes to be proposed in the form of haiku, as an example. It could be fun. :D
    “I support anyone’s right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?” - Dave Chappelle
    7:42 PM <Govindia> eh, i like the taste of nuts in my mouth



    Potential clients should PM or Query Emoticonius
    Emoticonius
    • Supreme Grand Admiral of The Emoticonian Army
    • Posts: 993
    • Karma: 453
    • Crasher Endorsed, Native Approved
    • Former Citizen
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Familial House
      Kaizer
      Representing
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    taulover
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • Seeker of Knowledge
  • I...don't see how that applies. Debate is allowed by that rule and we are debating. Besides, confining ourselves to the rules in a game where we constantly change the rules isn't as confining as you make it out to be. We could require rule changes to be proposed in the form of haiku, as an example. It could be fun. :D
    I'm not sure whether you're addressing the first or second part of my post. I'll treat it as both.

    For the first part (which relates to Proposal 303):
    Rule 111 reads:
    Quote from: Rule 111
    If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.
    This brings up several issues, from my perspective:
    • Debate is only allowed if the proposal meets certain subjective conditions
    • Players can only argue against a proposal, not for
    • Most importantly, the rule does not allow for debating during the voting period, as we are currently doing (or at least, the proponent can choose to end debate at any "reasonable" time and force voting without discussion)
    This is just one rule; you can find more of these cases if you look at the other ones carefully. Simply put, the rules currently in place are just not designed to be strictly followed, so I don't support an amendment of Rule 116 toward that direction.

    As for the second part of my post:
    Let me use BraveSirRobin's turn as an example. He proposed a rule change, and less than 10 minutes afterward, Rasdanation voted against it. Robin had not begun the voting period, so all of our votes were invalid. BraveSirRobin should have had the opportunity to change the text of his proposal, as Rule 111 stated, but his attempts to do so led to claims that such an action would be against the rules (even though our/Rasdanation's initiation of the voting period was illegal).

    In every turn so far, there hasn't been a prevote debating period, as Rule 111 mandates; rather, the debating has been simultaneous with the voting.

    Well if that's the case, then I vote for this proposal, we should make the game a bit faster, since we are running out of time.
    @Wintermoot @Emoticonius Can we continue this game after the Festival ends (perhaps moved to the Amalyan Quarter)?
    Résumé
    Wintreath:
    Citizen: 8 April 2015 - present
    From the Ashes RP Game Master: 29 November 2015 - 24 July 2018
    Skydande Vakt Marshal: 29 November 2015 - 28 February 2017
    Skrifa of the 13th Underhusen: 13 December 2015 - 8 February 2016
    RP Guild Councillor: 9 February 2016 - 6 March 2018
    Ambassador to Lovely: 23 February 2016 - 17 August 2016
    Werewolf VII co-host: 11 May 2016 - 5 June 2016
    Skrifa of the 18th Underhusen: 8 October 2016 - 7 December 2016
    Ambassador to Balder: 1 December 2016 - 1 March 2022
    Skrifa of the 19th Underhusen: 7 December 2016 - 9 February 2017
    Ambassador to the INWU: 11 March 2017 - 1 March 2022
    Ambassador to the Versutian Federation: 18 August 2017 - 22 March 2018
    Thane of Integration: 29 September 2017 - 7 March 2018
    Speaker of the 24th Underhusen: 10 October 2017 - 7 December 2017
    October 2017 Wintreath's Finest: 4 November 2017
    Speaker pro tempore of the 25th Underhusen: 9 December 2017 - 7 February 2018
    Wintreath's Finest of 2017: 6 January 2018
    Werewolf XIV host: 20 January 2018 - 23 February 2018
    February 2018 Wintreath's Finest: 5 March 2018
    Thane of Embassy Dispatches / Foreign Releases and Information / Foreign Dispatches: 7 March 2018 - 15 March 2020
    Speaker of the 28th Underhusen: 10 June 2018 - 7 August 2018
    Second Patriarch of the Noble House of Valeria: 10 October 2018 - present
    Arena Game 6 Host: 28 December 2018 - 9 March 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 29 January 2019 - 12 February 2019
    Speaker of the 32nd Underhusen: 12 February 2019 - 8 April 2019
    March 2019 Wintreath's Finest: 4 April 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 12 April 2019 - 23 October 2020
    Commendation of Wintreath: 24 September 2020
    Peer of the Overhusen: 9 December 2020 - 8 February 2021
    Vice Chancellor of the Landsraad: 26 May 2021 - 15 September 2022
    Arena Game 8 Host: 10 June 2021 - 19 July 2021
    June 2021 Wintreath's Finest: 5 July 2021
    Regional Stability Squad: 28 February 2023 - present
    Minecraft Server Admin: 8 March 2023 - present

    Aura Hyperia/New Hyperion:
    Plebeian: 16 April 2014 - 21 July 2014
    Patrician: 21 July 2014 - present
    Adeptus Mechanicus: 24 October 2014 - 16 November 2014
    Co-founder of New Hyperion: 29 October 2014 - present
    Lord of Propaganda: 16 November 2014 - present
    Mapmaker for Official Region RP: 27 November 2015 - present
    WACom Delegate: 11 November 2017 - present
    Other positions: Hyperian Guardsman, Hyperian Marine (Rank: Scout)
    taulover
    • Seeker of Knowledge
    • Posts: 13,189
    • Karma: 4,243
    • Regional Stability Squad
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Familial House
      Valeria
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    Emoticonius
  • Former Citizen
  • Supreme Grand Admiral of The Emoticonian Army
  • The schedule did say forum games could last beyond the festival.

    The rules have been somewhat ambiguous from the beginning. Besides, we can change the process in which a rule is proposed or voted on if we really want to.
    “I support anyone’s right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?” - Dave Chappelle
    7:42 PM <Govindia> eh, i like the taste of nuts in my mouth



    Potential clients should PM or Query Emoticonius
    Emoticonius
    • Supreme Grand Admiral of The Emoticonian Army
    • Posts: 993
    • Karma: 453
    • Crasher Endorsed, Native Approved
    • Former Citizen
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Familial House
      Kaizer
      Representing
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
    taulover
  • Regional Stability Squad
  • Seeker of Knowledge
  • The schedule did say forum games could last beyond the festival.

    The rules have been somewhat ambiguous from the beginning. Besides, we can change the process in which a rule is proposed or voted on if we really want to.
    I think the biggest problem is that Robin's modified proposal didn't get a chance to be voted on, which is a direct consequence of us breaking the rules and voting prematurely. And (in the current ruleset at least; see Rule 107) rules aren't retroactive, and I don't think they should be in any case.

    As for the ambiguity of the rules, that is exactly why I oppose making the rules more strict.

    Also (in a rather unrelated topic), in case you guys missed the rule for transmuting (I know I certainly did until I chanced upon it about 5 minutes ago):
    Quote from: Rules
    109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.
    Résumé
    Wintreath:
    Citizen: 8 April 2015 - present
    From the Ashes RP Game Master: 29 November 2015 - 24 July 2018
    Skydande Vakt Marshal: 29 November 2015 - 28 February 2017
    Skrifa of the 13th Underhusen: 13 December 2015 - 8 February 2016
    RP Guild Councillor: 9 February 2016 - 6 March 2018
    Ambassador to Lovely: 23 February 2016 - 17 August 2016
    Werewolf VII co-host: 11 May 2016 - 5 June 2016
    Skrifa of the 18th Underhusen: 8 October 2016 - 7 December 2016
    Ambassador to Balder: 1 December 2016 - 1 March 2022
    Skrifa of the 19th Underhusen: 7 December 2016 - 9 February 2017
    Ambassador to the INWU: 11 March 2017 - 1 March 2022
    Ambassador to the Versutian Federation: 18 August 2017 - 22 March 2018
    Thane of Integration: 29 September 2017 - 7 March 2018
    Speaker of the 24th Underhusen: 10 October 2017 - 7 December 2017
    October 2017 Wintreath's Finest: 4 November 2017
    Speaker pro tempore of the 25th Underhusen: 9 December 2017 - 7 February 2018
    Wintreath's Finest of 2017: 6 January 2018
    Werewolf XIV host: 20 January 2018 - 23 February 2018
    February 2018 Wintreath's Finest: 5 March 2018
    Thane of Embassy Dispatches / Foreign Releases and Information / Foreign Dispatches: 7 March 2018 - 15 March 2020
    Speaker of the 28th Underhusen: 10 June 2018 - 7 August 2018
    Second Patriarch of the Noble House of Valeria: 10 October 2018 - present
    Arena Game 6 Host: 28 December 2018 - 9 March 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 29 January 2019 - 12 February 2019
    Speaker of the 32nd Underhusen: 12 February 2019 - 8 April 2019
    March 2019 Wintreath's Finest: 4 April 2019
    Librarian of the Underhusen: 12 April 2019 - 23 October 2020
    Commendation of Wintreath: 24 September 2020
    Peer of the Overhusen: 9 December 2020 - 8 February 2021
    Vice Chancellor of the Landsraad: 26 May 2021 - 15 September 2022
    Arena Game 8 Host: 10 June 2021 - 19 July 2021
    June 2021 Wintreath's Finest: 5 July 2021
    Regional Stability Squad: 28 February 2023 - present
    Minecraft Server Admin: 8 March 2023 - present

    Aura Hyperia/New Hyperion:
    Plebeian: 16 April 2014 - 21 July 2014
    Patrician: 21 July 2014 - present
    Adeptus Mechanicus: 24 October 2014 - 16 November 2014
    Co-founder of New Hyperion: 29 October 2014 - present
    Lord of Propaganda: 16 November 2014 - present
    Mapmaker for Official Region RP: 27 November 2015 - present
    WACom Delegate: 11 November 2017 - present
    Other positions: Hyperian Guardsman, Hyperian Marine (Rank: Scout)
    taulover
    • Seeker of Knowledge
    • Posts: 13,189
    • Karma: 4,243
    • Regional Stability Squad
    • Pronouns
      He/Him/His
      Familial House
      Valeria
      Wintreath Nation
      Logged
     
    Pages: 1 ... 3 [4]