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US Presidential Election: The Electoral College and Party Loyalty
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Wintermoot
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  • This is an article from a few months ago, but I still found it very interesting: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/2016-predictions-117554

    In a way it's kind of sad...a year and a half prior to the presidental election, before we even know who the candidates are, we're able to predict which party will win it in a majority of states with near-absolute certainty. You can even say that when it comes to winning the election, the actual candidates matter only marginally...so long as they're not an absolute mess they're guaranteed to win the states loyal to their parties. It wasn't always like this...nationally this only became a thing starting in the 2000 election, but in some states it's been longer...Texas hasn't supported a Democratic candidate for president since 1976 (Jimmy Carter).

    I suppose it's just a sign of a polarized nation.


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    Laurentus
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  • Were I an American, I honestly don't know who I would support. This may surprise people, but I believe abortion to be murder, and thus the Democrats have an uphill battle already.

    On the other hand, America clearly needs far stricter gun laws, and should definitely be nudged to be more aware of the environment.

    Basically, with your strange two-party system, I wouldn't feel comfortable voting for either party.
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  • The recent controversy about Planned Parenthood aside, abortion actually doesn't factor much in elections...abortion was approved by the Supreme Court so it's pretty much out of the purview of the other branches minus a Constitutional amendment.

    I'm curious though...what's your stance on abortions in cases where the pregnancy risks the health of the mother? Or if the pregnancy is the result of a rape?
    « Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 10:25:15 PM by Wintermoot »


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    Arenado
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  • I'm a catholic, I have been for as long as I've lived and I do honestly believe in my church. Personally, I'm against abortion. All the scientists and doctors who say that its not a life yet are just missing the point. In terms of rape, incest and life of the mother, I have no problems. However, legally speaking (here in Singapore and back in the States), I support a women's right to get an abortion if she so chooses because I believe in separation of church and state.

    As for the American system, this strange 2 party system you have is better than our 1 party all the time always forever system Singapore has adopted. And if I was American (which I could be), I would vote for the democrats.
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  • In the case of incest, particularly between very close family members, I believe it's merciful to allow abortion rather than allow the child to grow up with severe disabilities, but I get why you ask about rape and when the pregnancy endangers the mother.

    In the case of rape, I still don't think it should be aborted if the pregnancy doesn't endanger the mother, and if it isn't the result of incest. I sympathise that the mother could possibly not love the child, but why not give the child up for adoption then? It goes without saying that if one is forced to choose between the life of the mother and the child, the mother should have the choice of whether to keep the pregnancy and risk her life or not.

    I should point out I'm not against it based on religious reasons. Rather philosophical and actual scientific reasons. Allowing abortion in the case of rape muddies the waters, because it sets a double standard.

    And at North: I honestly prefer your system in Singapore. It is not perfect, but I think even an American would be hard pressed to say that their system is better than the one in Singapore, without getting philosophical instead of practical.
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  • You summed up my own thoughts pretty well right there, @Laurentus.  I happen to oppose it for religious reasons, but I'd but just as set against for purely scientific and philosophical reasons as well.


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    Wintermoot
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  • In the case of incest, particularly between very close family members, I believe it's merciful to allow abortion rather than allow the child to grow up with severe disabilities, but I get why you ask about rape and when the pregnancy endangers the mother.

    In the case of rape, I still don't think it should be aborted if the pregnancy doesn't endanger the mother, and if it isn't the result of incest. I sympathise that the mother could possibly not love the child, but why not give the child up for adoption then? It goes without saying that if one is forced to choose between the life of the mother and the child, the mother should have the choice of whether to keep the pregnancy and risk her life or not.

    I should point out I'm not against it based on religious reasons. Rather philosophical and actual scientific reasons. Allowing abortion in the case of rape muddies the waters, because it sets a double standard.

    And at North: I honestly prefer your system in Singapore. It is not perfect, but I think even an American would be hard pressed to say that their system is better than the one in Singapore, without getting philosophical instead of practical.
    I mostly ask because that issue has spelled the end of many Republicans' political careers...not necessarily because they opposed it in cases of rape, but because they then went on to make inflammatory comments about rape itself, such as Todd Akon claiming that women couldn't get pregnant from 'legitimate rape'...costing him a Senate Seat in 2012.

    I'm not sure I agree with you, if only because of the state of foster care system in the country. Because it's not nearly as visible an issue as abortion, there aren't many groups championing that cause, and in may cases the system doesn't have enough resources. To make things even worse, Americans would rather adopt from other countries, and the only reason that foreign adoptions are going down is because countries are placing obstacles against American adoptions. Russia has even banned Americans from adopting from there. I can't help but wonder the sort of life kids can live there...I'm sure it works out in most cases, but how many of them feel unwanted or aren't being given the attention they need?

    If adoption is going to be the alternative to abortion, then it needs to be more of an issue...it handles 400,000 children as it is, and we need more groups that will champion those causes and raise the profile and importance of the system.


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  • And at North: I honestly prefer your system in Singapore. It is not perfect, but I think even an American would be hard pressed to say that their system is better than the one in Singapore, without getting philosophical instead of practical.

    As someone who has been in both Singapore and the US, I disagree. Unless you are referring to the Westminster system in general.
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  • Yeah our adoption and foster care system is thoroughly fucked up. I honestly think that if a mother doesn't want a child, but would end up putting it in the foster care system, it would be more merciful to abort it at this point. (Further while I am neutral on abortion I do support a woman's right to get one, even if I was against it I would support the right to choose...)
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    BraveSirRobin
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  •      I'd definitely vote for the Democrats in this election... the only Republican of any repute is Kasich.  Personally I'm a Bernie Sanders guy :D .  Income inequality and climate change are by far the most pressing matters in the United States right now, especially after the recent Supreme Court ruling.  :)
    1 person likes this post: Aethelia
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  • But would you still vote for Hillary Clinton over any Republican (except Kasich perhaps)?


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  • Re: abortion-
    The key thing everyone leaves out of the abortion debate is the concept of bodily autonomy. See, if your cousin is dying and needs a kidney transplant, and yours could save him, and you don't need both kidneys...nobody can still force you to give him your kidney.

    But what pro-lifers argue is that a woman has to give up her entire body for a child she does not want, that will permanently alter her hormones, her brain composition, and her physical structure (did you know pregnancy literally forces your abs to split down the middle? yeaaaah). Also, even healthy mothers-to-be can suffer sudden complications and die, or be permanently disabled. It happens to millions of women every year. Pregnancy is the most lethal endeavor most women ever go through; moms are absolutely hardcore.

    And then, once the baby is had, who takes care of it? The mother, almost always with no help from the people who forced her to risk her life carrying it for around nine months, who has had her life completely and irrevocably changed against her will.

    Either that, or the kid gets put up for adoption; chances are if they're not a healthy, white baby they're not getting adopted, so they rot in the system until they're grown, wondering what they did to deserve being abandoned. So, effectively, you can ruin two lives for the price of one (barring twins, etc.)!

    TL;DR a pregnant person is at way more risk than a kidney donor for long-term health impacts in physical, mental, and emotional areas, and yet we cannot force someone to donate a kidney so why should anyone be allowed to force someone to bear a child?


    Back on topic:
    I'd vote for Jill Stein but she essentially has zero chance of winning. Casting my vote for Bernie because he's the next best thing.

    I'd still vote Hillary over any Republican, just because this election is less about the presidency and more about who gets appointed to the Supreme Court, tbh. The Justices have a lot more impact in many ways than the president.
    1 person likes this post: Aethelia
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  • But would you still vote for Hillary Clinton over any Republican (except Kasich perhaps)?

    Yeah, I'd vote for Clinton above any Republican (except Kasich, yeah) any day.  The rest of the Republican field seems like a bunch of bumbling baboons, especially considering that the top three want to make Mexico build a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border (Trump), declare war on Islam and get rid of separation of church and state (Carson), and try to be CEO of the country after driving Hewlett Packard into the ground by merging with Compaq (Fiorina). 
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  • Bodily autonomy... What about the baby's? By that same logic, an abortion is far worse than carrying the child to term.  Ending a life completely happens to interfere a little more with bodily autonomy than hormonal shifts and physiological changes.  And as soon as the two gametes become one zygote, there are two distinct bodies involved, not just the mother's.

    With regards to Supreme Court justices, keep in mind who appoints them.  Granted, one of them needs to die or step down before we get a new one, but it's still the President that makes the call.

    Oh, crap, I just realized that I can actually vote in this presidential election.  Whelp, guess I'd better start paying closer attention to the candidates...


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  • Bodily autonomy... What about the baby's? By that same logic, an abortion is far worse than carrying the child to term.  Ending a life completely happens to interfere a little more with bodily autonomy than hormonal shifts and physiological changes.  And as soon as the two gametes become one zygote, there are two distinct bodies involved, not just the mother's.

    With regards to Supreme Court justices, keep in mind who appoints them.  Granted, one of them needs to die or step down before we get a new one, but it's still the President that makes the call.

    Oh, crap, I just realized that I can actually vote in this presidential election.  Whelp, guess I'd better start paying closer attention to the candidates...
    Colberius, what you've just argued is that the baby's bodily autonomy should override the pregnant persons... And that's just not how bodily autonomy works, no ones overrides anyone's...
    The pregnant person is deciding not to use their body to support something else and that's within the bounds of bodily autonomy... It doesn't override the baby's at all...
    But when you say that the decision as to whether the pregnant person can do that is up to the baby? That's overriding the pregnant person's autonomy and therefore inappropriate...
    1 person likes this post: Aethelia
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