Wintreath Regional Community
A Link to the Past - Archives => The Registry of Things Past - Historic Archive => Frosthold Castle - Wintreath Government => Topic started by: Wintermoot on April 15, 2017, 04:09:08 AM
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Last month, I eliminated the Ministry of Defense because of its inactivity, but that doesn't mean that we can't have a gameplay military if one is wanted beyond a militia that would uphold our treaty obligations to protect our allies. I just wanted to start a discussion and see what everyone else thought about having a military in general and what type of military it would be if it were one...how it would work and all that.
For those that don't know, historically Wintreath had an update force, the Hvitt Riddaral, which was online when NS updated and was able to very quickly move into a region and endorse a nation to sway who would become delegate...this was usually done to remove the delegacy from a raider and return it to a nation that was native to that region (liberation missions). We also had a piling force, the Skydande Vakt, which did missions that didn't require fast action at an exact time, such as reinforcing an ally delegate against a potential coup or a native delegate that's still building enough influence to eject raiders from a newly liberated region (piling missions).
I'm eager to hear the thoughts of the community. :)
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I think it is imperative that we establish a strong military and actively protect other regions in danger of being raided or couped. I have plenty of ideas as for how a military could be organized, and I will write it up later.
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Speaking from experience (as the former Jarl of Defense), there really isn't much we can do. I just don't think most people here in Wintreath have an interest in GP, for better or worse...
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Speaking from experience (as the former Jarl of Defense), there really isn't much we can do. I just don't think most people here in Wintreath have an interest in GP, for better or worse...
I find this unfortunate, as I myself have a strong interest in it, and I think that Wintreath would do well to fight for the freedom of others. I would recommend that the Monarch reinstates the Ministry of Defence, or a separate branch of government is formed to handle military matters. I do not think it would be impossible to persuade citizens to join it. We are the 45th largest region in the world, and we can certainly use that to make a difference. At the very least, we should provide assistance to other Defender regions in the form of manpower or WA clout.
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I find this unfortunate, as I myself have a strong interest in it, and I think that Wintreath would do well to fight for the freedom of others. I would recommend that the Monarch reinstates the Ministry of Defence, or a separate branch of government is formed to handle military matters. I do not think it would be impossible to persuade citizens to join it. We are the 45th largest region in the world, and we can certainly use that to make a difference. At the very least, we should provide assistance to other Defender regions in the form of manpower or WA clout.
Let's do some quick math, shall we?
We have 59 citizens, according to the last Revocation Update (http://wintreath.com/forums/index.php?topic=585.msg96094#msg96094), plus one citizen since that, so we have 60 citizens. and our region has 250 nations in it. Let's assume that each nation is owned by one person, and only one person (this is probably false, but without data as to how many puppets belong to citizens and how many to non-citizens, I can't really do much). So with some quick math, that's 24%. Only 24% of people in Wintreath currently have Citizenship. However that's including a few non-nation citizens, so fixing our numbers gives us 57 Citizens that are relevant to our numbers, so only 22.8%. Let's also strip out Paragons as well, so that is now 21.2% of people can participate in an update military (with only 53 citizens available).
Further you are ignoring some logistical issues, for example, military gameplay can only happen twice a day, at Major and Minor Updates (00:00 and 12:00 Eastern Respectively), you also need people who can trigger (so about 5 people in the region), you need people who are WA Mobile, people who are willing to be up for about an hour or so during either update, and they have to have an alright Internet connection. These decrease the numbers dramatically, which is why the military eventually fizzled out here. In reality it just isn't all that feasible.
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I was unaware that so few of our nations were Citizens. I recommend that the government encourages more participation in the community from non-Citizens, although I do not know what the logistics of doing so might be. This is just a suggestion of what should happen, not a plan for how to do it, or even a demonstration of its possibility.
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I just wrote up a set of guidelines for the creation of a powerful, organized military, but it seems that Wintreath currently lacks the resources to form such an organization. What a shame. I suppose I may as well post my ideas, just in case they interest anyone. Keep in mind that I do not think they are the most practical at the current time.
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Okay, here is my long-winded fantasies about Wintreath's future:
The most obvious course of action would simply be for Wintermoot to reestablish the Ministry of Defence, but considering that it was dissolved for a reason (inactivity), this plan may not be effective.
In lieu of a new Ministry of Defence, I propose that a separate branch of government is formed to handle military affairs. This organization (name undecided) would not run autonomously, as that could lead to a coup d'etat, but be subservient to the Monarch, with the Storting holding a lesser degree of sway over its actions.
The military would be led by a Grand General (not necessarily the official title), with other members being given ranks based off of their achievements and abilities. The Grand General would have a standing invitation to speak in front of the Underhusen, similar to the Royal Family, and they would be able to transfer this invitation to their subordinates when necessary.
The military would possess a section of the forums accessible only by them and government officials, with different topics having different degrees of classification and different individuals allowed to view. I am unsure of how difficult this would be for Wintermoot, but it would make military operations far smoother and more effective.
Instead of a separate piling force like the Skydande Vakt, willing soldiers not currently involved in operations would be designated to a reinforce a certain region against attack, or to remain in Wintreath if we are expecting an attack. Soldiers are not required to do this, but it is strongly encouraged of anyone wishing to do their part to aid the cause.
Soldiers not on duty would also have the option of aiding the Ministry of Information in collecting data on rival regions. I would encourage people interested in doing so to create alternate nations for the purpose of joining and spying on rival regions.
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The most obvious course of action would simply be for Wintermoot to reestablish the Ministry of Defence, but considering that it was dissolved for a reason (inactivity), this plan may not be effective.
In lieu of a new Ministry of Defence, I propose that a separate branch of government is formed to handle military affairs. This organization (name undecided) would not run autonomously, as that could lead to a coup d'etat, but be subservient to the Monarch, with the Storting holding a lesser degree of sway over its actions.
Just so you know, that is somewhat how it was before, except that the Storting held now power over it. excluding war declarations and supporting actions to be taken, or to take.
The military would be led by a Grand General (not necessarily the official title), with other members being given ranks based off of their achievements and abilities. The Grand General would have a standing invitation to speak in front of the Underhusen, similar to the Royal Family, and they would be able to transfer this invitation to their subordinates when necessary.
Which is how it acted previously, except for the invitation to the UH, which is only something the UH can grant.
The military would possess a section of the forums accessible only by them and government officials, with different topics having different degrees of classification and different individuals allowed to view. I am unsure of how difficult this would be for Wintermoot, but it would make military operations far smoother and more effective.
Instead of a separate piling force like the Skydande Vakt, willing soldiers not currently involved in operations would be designated to a reinforce a certain region against attack, or to remain in Wintreath if we are expecting an attack. Soldiers are not required to do this, but it is strongly encouraged of anyone wishing to do their part to aid the cause.
Soldiers not on duty would also have the option of aiding the Ministry of Information in collecting data on rival regions. I would encourage people interested in doing so to create alternate nations for the purpose of joining and spying on rival regions.
Excluding the spying part, this is basically how things acted before, except soldiers were required to pile unless on another action. Also the Skydande Vakt is the entire citizenry, for the most part.
As to the spying, it has been expressly forbidden by Wintermoot (as I may or may not have floated the idea a few times while Jarl of Defense.). Really I hate to kinda kill your idea, but honestly this is basically how things ran before.
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The most obvious course of action would simply be for Wintermoot to reestablish the Ministry of Defence, but considering that it was dissolved for a reason (inactivity), this plan may not be effective.
In lieu of a new Ministry of Defence, I propose that a separate branch of government is formed to handle military affairs. This organization (name undecided) would not run autonomously, as that could lead to a coup d'etat, but be subservient to the Monarch, with the Storting holding a lesser degree of sway over its actions.
Just so you know, that is somewhat how it was before, except that the Storting held now power over it. excluding war declarations and supporting actions to be taken, or to take.
The military would be led by a Grand General (not necessarily the official title), with other members being given ranks based off of their achievements and abilities. The Grand General would have a standing invitation to speak in front of the Underhusen, similar to the Royal Family, and they would be able to transfer this invitation to their subordinates when necessary.
Which is how it acted previously, except for the invitation to the UH, which is only something the UH can grant.
The military would possess a section of the forums accessible only by them and government officials, with different topics having different degrees of classification and different individuals allowed to view. I am unsure of how difficult this would be for Wintermoot, but it would make military operations far smoother and more effective.
Instead of a separate piling force like the Skydande Vakt, willing soldiers not currently involved in operations would be designated to a reinforce a certain region against attack, or to remain in Wintreath if we are expecting an attack. Soldiers are not required to do this, but it is strongly encouraged of anyone wishing to do their part to aid the cause.
Soldiers not on duty would also have the option of aiding the Ministry of Information in collecting data on rival regions. I would encourage people interested in doing so to create alternate nations for the purpose of joining and spying on rival regions.
Excluding the spying part, this is basically how things acted before, except soldiers were required to pile unless on another action. Also the Skydande Vakt is the entire citizenry, for the most part.
As to the spying, it has been expressly forbidden by Wintermoot (as I may or may not have floated the idea a few times while Jarl of Defense.). Really I hate to kinda kill your idea, but honestly this is basically how things ran before.
Oh, you haven't killed it, I am quite happy that I ended up with almost the exact same plan as you people did. Great minds think alike. :D
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I don't think that's necessarily true, @Chanku. A military doesn't necessarily have to do update operations, and even if it does you only need a few people who are active at update to have a working military. The reason it fizzled is because the forum community stopped caring about NationStates in general, to the extent that we had no candidates for Delegate last election. I understand that some people get bored with NS and move on, and I want them to be able to stay here and enjoy the community when they do, but we also need people are still interested in Wintreath as a NS region and are willing to work to make it as great as possible.
Personally, I think it's thrilling that you're such a person, @Idolian. One of my hopes as I've been recruiting on NationStates over the last few months is to find people like you who want to jump-start things in that area again...to build Wintreath the region, like here with a military. We need people to be part of the forum community and make friends and chill out...that's what we're known for, and one of the great things about us...but we also need a great region to go along with it. I'd certainly like to work with people like you to keep Wintreath a great region. :)
And hey, Chanku may be right your idea being how things were, but that just means you're on the right track. :P
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To add onto what @Idolian mentioned, rather than having a section of the forums for military operations, it would probably be easier to have a set of channels on Discord with related roles as you can limit access to specific channels by roles. In other words, someone with the role of General would be able to see all military channels, whereas someone with the role of Private would only see one. Aside from being faster than forum-based coordination, it would be more convenient than setting up password-protected IRC channels for every major operation, and it wouldn't clutter up the region's channels list since only those with the relevant roles would be able to see the relevant rooms.
Assuming that there is a need to reinstate the Ministry of Defense.
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No discord, thanks
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In terms of Yaim Rusur, providing security and arms manufacturing is at the forefront of the national agenda and would like to be a major part in regional military. Also in the event that a ministry of defence would be opened back up, I would offer my services to keep it at the very least active, as just before it was closed down I was about to inquire as to the Thane of Defense position which had been vacant. While I am not as skilled in terms of forum posting as some, I do understand military strategy, and equipment engineering, and would very much so like to be helpful to the Region in general and I feel this particular field of politics/regional policy suits my skills to help the region.
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I believe that Wintermoot was referring to whether or not we should maintain updating and piling forces as a region, not as to a RP military. (Think like defending our allies against Black Hawks and stuff.)
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If someone wanted to organize it and get people interested, we certainly could have a RP military (or anything else for that matter!), but not being much of a RP I wouldn't know how I could help there personally. :P
But yeah, in this particular topic I was referring to NS gameplay or R/D (https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=162651).
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No discord, thanks
Can I ask the reason why?
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I believe that Wintermoot was referring to whether or not we should maintain updating and piling forces as a region, not as to a RP military. (Think like defending our allies against Black Hawks and stuff.)
I am aware, I happen to know some strategy as to managing a military, not just RP but actual nation stuff
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Can I ask the reason why?
Chanku doesn't like Discord. :P
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Also because IRC has worked perfectly and there is really no need to change now, just because something new and shiny has come along. Also we don't need voice chat (in fact I rather dislike them for things like operations).
Along with my numerous issues with Discord, and Wintreath uses IRC, it does not really use Discord...(as in, IRC is the first (and primary) communication platform for wintreath).
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I dunno man, a lot has changed in your absence. :P
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>.>
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(Offtopic) I think Discord would be a good idea, seems to work pretty well and the IRC is nearly dead anyway. I don't know how it works, would it cost us (Wintermoot) money to have our own thing in Discord?
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Wintreath already has an unofficial Discord that was set up by Hannah: https://discord.gg/V77hpFE
If we wanted to go that route, we could either ask Hannah if we could set up a channel on that server, or set up a new server for official Wintreath things. Either way, there would be no cost involved. :)
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nonononononononononononono
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Yus! I never realized. I guess I just ignored all the times someone said anything about Discord before I knew how good it is. :D
It looks to be doing much better than the IRC channel at the moment.
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On a side note, if ownership of the server is an issue, it's really simple to transfer ownership to another person. One of the biggest advantages Discord has over traditional IRC. :P
I think using the current setup should be fine though since military gameplay is pretty nonexistent. Until there's more activity, more channels is probably overkill.
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I wouldn't say ownership is an issue...it's more just official vs unofficial. :P
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But why is it unofficial then? Clearly far more people are willing to use Discord than IRC. We should be cashing that it.
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But why is it unofficial then? Clearly far more people are willing to use Discord than IRC. We should be cashing that it.
I think once the defense department is reopened and we have a military, we will use the discord.
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Also a military can't just defend. If I become the Jarl of Defense, the first thing I will do is train, train and train.
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Also a military can't just defend. If I become the Jarl of Defense, the first thing I will do is train, train and train.
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Whoa there, you've been here for a day and you already want a top-level Cabinet position? Ambitious... :P
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But why is it unofficial then? Clearly far more people are willing to use Discord than IRC. We should be cashing that it.
I think once the defense department is reopened and we have a military, we will use the discord.
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Government stuff should use the IRC, as the IRC is still the only official non-forum communication platform. Government stuff should never touch un-official wintreath platforms IMO
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Government stuff should use the IRC, as the IRC is still the only official non-forum communication platform. Government stuff should never touch un-official wintreath platforms IMO
You should just admit that you don't like Discord and are against it for anything. :P